Mike Huckabee's Catholic Problem

Here's some interesting graphics. First, the Iowa counties Mike Huckabee won in blue, those Mitt Romney won in red:

Next up, the proportion of Catholics in each county:

That's circumstantial evidence that Catholics don't like the Huckster. Philip Klinker, who put those images together, ran the numbers more rigorously and came to a firmer conclusion -- Catholics don't like the guy.

At the end of the day, that's big trouble. One thinks, traditionally, of white Catholics as the core bloc of culturally traditionalist voters with some leanings in the direction of economic populism. Any nationally successful coalition founded on the sort of Christian Democratic approach that Huckabee gestures at in his more appealing moments would need to have Catholic voters at its heart, not pushed out to the margins.

Comments

"Catholics don't like the guy."

Some think the feeling is mutual. Huckabee spoke at the very anti-Catholic Cornerstone Church.

Posted by Russ | January 8, 2008 8:37 AM

Aren't we reading too much its these correlations?

After all, Romney outspent Huckabee on advertising by something like 10-to-1, and his later ads were the normally very effective "negative" ones, completely unanswered.

The remarkable election result wasn't that Romney won the Catholic districts, but that he didn't win *all* of the districts, and by a pretty wide margin. It turned out the ads just bounced off Huckabee's base voters, who are (unsurprisingly) his fellow Evangelicals.

Whether he'd lose the Catholic vote in a remotely level paid media field is just another question entirely.

Posted by RKU | January 8, 2008 8:56 AM

Any nationally successful coalition founded on the sort of Christian Democratic approach that Huckabee gestures at in his more appealing moments would need to have Catholic voters at its heart, not pushed out to the margins.

As you yourself have often pointed out, Matt, populism is a style, not an ideology. Huckabee may include populist rhetoric on the stump, but he's far from representing the kind of big government conservative, theocon-plus-welfare-state-plus-nationalism approach you'd expect to see in an actual Christian Democratic realignment. Huckabee is more of a standard Republican with some wacky tax policies and evangelical identity politics tacked on.

Posted by Christmas | January 8, 2008 8:58 AM

How about 'something that may correlate with the presence of Catholic populations in Iowa also appears to correlate with lower voting percentages for Huckabee'. You just can't disentangle correlations one thread at a time-- stuff tends to group together in complicated ways.

Posted by MattF | January 8, 2008 9:01 AM

The Catholics I know do - AND one of my atheist friends now too.

It's amazing how reporters like to pit a "group" of people against someone. It happens all the time. It's time we stop the animosity.

Huckabee is TRUTHFUL, not fake. He loves this country and it's people and it shows. His core values do not change with different audiences. He's NOT a flip-flop. He has the MOST Executive experience of ANY candidate running (on either side) - over 10 years - yet he's NOT a Washington insider.

'nuff said.

Posted by gander | January 8, 2008 9:03 AM

I think this is over-analyzing. It's not that Catholics don't vote for him, but rather that all non-born-again/Evangelical Protestants don't vote for him. Huck's voters are focused on that one narrow segment. The fact that that segment is wildly overrepresented among Iowa caucusers makes Huck's finish in the caucus misleading.

As I said immediately after the caucus, sdomething like 80 percent of Huck voters were bornagain/Evangelical Protestant. If we should take Huck seriously, he needs to show us he can appeal to non-born-again/Evangelicals, who will be a far lower percentage of voters in NH (and elsewhere) than in Iowa.

Posted by Al | January 8, 2008 9:08 AM

You could read the map equally well as saying that fundamentalists don't like Romney. Both these guys have serious disabilities as national candidates arising from their religions.

Posted by Bloix | January 8, 2008 9:14 AM

Yes, Mike Huckabee does have a "Catholic Problem".

True there are many that do vote for him, but there are equally as much, or more, that don't like him. Though they do want to vote for him.

Why?

Because of Huckabee's anti-Catholic leanings.

I should know, I am part of the Catholic blogosphere and there are many of us wanting to vote for him now that Brownback dropped out. But since his visit to Cornerstone Baptist Church where the anti-Catholic bigot John Hagee preaches he has lost a lot of support around the Catholic blogosphere.

In Jesus, Mary, & Joseph,

Tito of Custos Fidei

Posted by Tito | January 8, 2008 9:14 AM

Gander:

Huckabee is anything but truthful and has shown disdain, contempt and bigotry towards 6 million Mormons in our country - and that's just for starters. He is the personification of feigned innocence and sneakiness.

Posted by Eric | January 8, 2008 9:25 AM

One thinks, traditionally, of white Catholics as the core bloc of culturally traditionalist voters with some leanings in the direction of economic populism.

I don't think it's so cut & dried as this. It's not cultural traditionalism so much as it's identity politics. There's a group of Catholics who you can appeal to with a resentment-based "it's us against them" argument that also appeals to evangelicals. Romney tapped into this pretty well in his "blame it on the seculars" speech.

Huckabee's mistake is that he's left this language behind and is instead speaking a religious language that's very clear to Baptists, evangelicals, and people whose religions are descended from "Great Awakening" traditions, but totally incomprehensible to Catholics. It's identity politics, narrowly targeted.

This is, at best, leaving Catholics out and at worst, stirring up the historical resentments between these two groups and making Catholics suspect that perhaps they are "them" in the "us against them" argument.

Posted by anonymous | January 8, 2008 9:30 AM

If PoliSigh hadn't flipped the victory colors, it would be more obvious that this looks an awful lot like the same Red-Blue Town Mouse-Country Mouse split we've been used to since Gilgamesh. Romney won the counties closest to what passes for major cities in Iowa - the "urban fringe" if you will. Huckabee won the "heartland." It seems as likely that "Catholicism" here is just a proxy for urbanity.

Posted by Jim Henley | January 8, 2008 9:36 AM

Romney won the counties closest to what passes for major cities in Iowa - the "urban fringe" if you will. Huckabee won the "heartland."

That might be true if you ignore the fact that Huckabee won in Des Moines, the largest city in Iowa.

I think this is over-analyzing. It's not that Catholics don't vote for him, but rather that all non-born-again/Evangelical Protestants don't vote for him.

Exactly right.

Posted by right | January 8, 2008 9:42 AM

Without being completely sure of this, I suspect that the Iowa Catholic population is mostly older, and thus lacks the younger "John Paul II Catholic" set that some dream of allying with the Evangelicals on so-called life issues. It was always a surprise to me that the generation of Catholics before mine (people now 65-90) seemed to be somewhat more anti-clerical, and vastly more hostile to the bishops, than I am.

Posted by Gene O'Grady | January 8, 2008 9:45 AM

As I pointed out at Crooked Timber, this is meaningless in the face of the ecological fallacy. One cannot infer individual-level decisions from data aggregated at such a high level, at least not without a much more sophisticated approach. For one, it confounds urbanicity (and no, including the urban variable in the model wasn't enough). For another, it doesn't tell us the distribution of Republican Catholics (or of Catholics who participated in the Republican caucus). And as others have noted above, is this really causation? The regressions the PoliSigh blogger runs on the data wouldn't pass the laugh test at a peer-reviewed journal.

Posted by boffo | January 8, 2008 9:50 AM

"Huckabee .... has shown disdain, contempt and bigotry towards 6 million Mormons in our country"

THAT is not true. I'm not a Baptist, I'm not a Catholic, I'm not a Mormon - but I can tell you that he loves and respects everyone INCLUDING Mormons.

Mike has one older sister (Pat) and I was fortunate to spend a whole day with her. I also talked to Mike and his wife Janet earlier in the campaign. (at first i supported Duncan Hunter). You are just flat out wrong about the Huckabee's. There is nothing but love for other people in that whole family - ALL other people. Mike IS the honest guy we see on the news every day and anyone that says different is a liar.

Politicians play "gotcha" games like, "When did you quit robbing banks? - Yes or No?" Those questions cannot be answered "yes" or "no" because the question itself is a lie.

Mike Huckabee is now FIRST in the National Polling (Gallop and Rassmasen) and he will continue to move up.

I have to run into town but will keep this page open so if someone should have more questions, I'll try to respond later today. Have a great day all.... :)

Posted by gander | January 8, 2008 9:54 AM

It seems as likely that "Catholicism" here is just a proxy for urbanity.

Henry Farrell says that Catholicism still has an impact when you control for urban/rural.

Posted by Matt Weiner | January 8, 2008 9:56 AM

Catholics are still pissed off about those Protestant upstarts, but a guy whose religion started just last week? Not gonna cut it with the papists.

Posted by Junius Brutus | January 8, 2008 10:00 AM

OOps. I misread the graph. I guess the papists think the enemy of their (long established) enemy is their friend.

Posted by Junius Brutus | January 8, 2008 10:02 AM

Wow, is that the first pro-Huck shill on this blog? The infowar comes to Arkansas!)

Posted by kvenlander | January 8, 2008 10:06 AM

No offence but this looks like an effort to find a sly way to start a fight between Huckabee and Catholics. As a catholic myself I see Huckabee as an; honest, patriotic, God fearing, American, more than qualified to be President. I will evaluate his candidacy against the others in the race and make my decision based upon the facts and my best judgment.

Posted by H. Evers | January 8, 2008 10:11 AM

Treating what's obviously just a couple big regions as 100-odd independent observations doesn't fit any definition of rigorous that I learned in stats class. Pretty much every demographic variable in Iowa falls along that same regional division, plus idiosyncratic state-specific stuff. So there's really no way to pick Catholicism out of the mix.

Huckabee may have a problem with Catholics but the Iowa data don't tell you that, even with pretty maps.

Posted by lemuel pitkin | January 8, 2008 10:31 AM

I second the various criticisms of the analysis (including the big issue of Catholicism being a stand-in for urbanity and the question of whether the real trend is evangelicals not liking Romney), but this also jumps out at me:

white Catholics as the core bloc of culturally traditionalist voters with some leanings in the direction of economic populism

I know white Catholics to whom this applies. The thing is that such white Catholics may be socially, if not culturally, traditionalist as well as economically populist, but they also know enough history to be very afraid of white, Protestant culturally traditionalist/economic populists, who typically have been anti-Catholic. And Huckabee did not help himself with that demographic by, as people point out, speaking at Cornerstone.

Moreover, the most conservative "JPII and after" Catholics tend to be younger and, in terms of high culture, rather liberal (e.g. in the culture wars, if they were old enough to have participated in them, they would have been at least somewhat on the side of the liberals, although they would hardly have been the bomb throwers for the PC left): they ain't gonna vote for someone who denies evolution and probably hates -- or, worse, perhaps even isn't aware of -- Matthew Arnold as much as Charles Darwin (although his love of a goth band, even if it's a Christian goth band, might ease some concerns).

Posted by DAS | January 8, 2008 10:33 AM

gander, I have no idea whether or not Huckabee is a bigot, but one day with his sister and talking to him once doesn't really tell us much. I once met Bill Clinton and all I can tell you is that he had a decent handshake. If I hadn't been paying attention to the news for years, I wouldn't have been able to tell from that one meeting that he was an adulterer. I recently found out that a kid I had known for years and once lived near used to go on long and vivid racist and anti-Semitic rants full of conspiracy theories. Meanwhile, I only knew him as a pothead. i believe in innocent until proven guilty on these types of things, but the idea that meeting a guy once and talking to his sister is evidence of anything is just silly.

Posted by Reality Man | January 8, 2008 10:35 AM

At my dad's Catholic high school in the Midwest, they taught evolution in biology class as scientific fact. Just sayin'. Then again, he is a lapsed Catholic.

Posted by Reality Man | January 8, 2008 10:38 AM

So would the Catholics support Rudy? (funny how he's become almost a non-entity)

Posted by Ethel-to-Tilly | January 8, 2008 10:39 AM

Just because Huckabee used evangelicals to springboard to viability in Iowa, and Catholics weren't necessarly part of this coalition in Iowa, doesn't mean his populism and pro-life stands won't go down well with Catholics in the future now that he is a serious candidate.

I explain in more detail here:

http://sophistryandklatsch.blogspot.com/2008/01/polysigh-huckabee-and-catholics.html

Posted by David | January 8, 2008 10:39 AM

"At my dad's Catholic high school in the Midwest, they taught evolution in biology class as scientific fact. Just sayin'. Then again, he is a lapsed Catholic."

Huh? What is this supposed to mean? In my Catholic school days we talked about evolution in religion class--and how (assuming that the larger point about God being involved at some level was kept) evolution was quite compatible with Catholicism.

Posted by David | January 8, 2008 10:45 AM

Without being completely sure of this, I suspect that the Iowa Catholic population is mostly older, and thus lacks the younger "John Paul II Catholic" set that some dream of allying with the Evangelicals on so-called life issues. It was always a surprise to me that the generation of Catholics before mine (people now 65-90) seemed to be somewhat more anti-clerical, and vastly more hostile to the bishops, than I am.

O'Grady brings up a good point. To cite another example: While attending a Jesuit university in the 90s, one 50-something priest told me the older Jesuits were far more liberal than the ones in the novitiate at the time. The older priests grew up in Vatican II time, with more vocations and a greater sense of the small-c catholic reach of the church; the trainees were more in line with John Paul II's with-us-or-against-us stand.

Like O'Grady, I don't know if this means anything for the presidential race. It might suggest younger Catholics being more open to Huckabee, but that group is significantly more secular than others, and could just as easily resist him.

Posted by Brian | January 8, 2008 10:45 AM

So would the Catholics support Rudy? (funny how he's become almost a non-entity) - Ethel-to-Tilly

The white, conservative Catholics I know are supporting Keyes: I think it's because (1) he's a conservative Catholic, (2) he's black so they can convince themselves whatever gut reaction they have against Obama ain't racism, (3) he has no chance of actually winning, so whatever aspects of Keyes' politics they don't like don't matter -- it's a pure protest vote against the lack of a proper "Christian Democrat" sort of candidate in this race.

Posted by DAS | January 8, 2008 10:46 AM

As someone pointed out at CT, you could just as easily label this post "Romney's Protestant problem".

Posted by Ginger Yellow | January 8, 2008 11:14 AM

Ginger-

Nice point. This analysis should win some kind of prize for ridiculous overreading of a tiny bit of data.

Posted by lemuel pitkin | January 8, 2008 11:35 AM

Ex-Catholic from the Great Lakes area here, and I grew up very much within the Catholic culture. It will rain wrenches in Pittsburgh before anyone who self-identifies as a Born-Again Christian gets a majority of the Catholic vote in Pennsylvania and Ohio. There's too many decades of distrust behind it, even for the younger generation. Younger Catholics may be more comfortable with Huckabee's speaking style, but I strongly suspect they will probably break for either McCain or Romney. They'd prefer a Mormon to a "Baptist." (They use that word, rightly or wrongly, to describe nearly all Southern evangelicals).

If Huckabee does end up winning the nomination, where the Catholic vote goes in the general election would really depend on the candidate on the Democrats' end. If it's Obama, he would blow Huck out of the water. Obama's talking like a Kennedy, and that will be enough. Hillary or Edwards... tough to say. Might be an even split, with Edwards taking a few more than Hillary.

Posted by Tel | January 8, 2008 11:35 AM

FWIW, I observed a similar, national pattern at Yearly Kos last year.

Posted by pastordan | January 8, 2008 11:42 AM

Jim Henley nailed it. Catholics are a red herring here... this map shows the urban/rural divide. Romney won nearly all of the urban areas and the Rust Belt counties along the Mississippi. Huck won most of the rural counties.

The correlation that matters here is that Huckabee's support is powered by rural, Evangelical voters. Romney pulled more support from everyone else, including Catholics. This being the Iowa Republican caucus, those demographics translated into a Huckabee win.

Posted by LaFollette Progressive | January 8, 2008 11:52 AM

Agree with others--this mostly just confirms that Huckabee's support in Iowa was largely evangelical, and counties in that part of the country that are more Catholic are almost certainly also less evangelical.

But I also wonder whether Catholic voters are specifically more open to Romney because they--or at least their older relatives--know what it's like to be the victim of religious prejudice. For all its substantive differences, the Romney speech really was a lot like the JFK speech in the sense that rampant soft bigotry required him to make the speech at all.

Posted by Steve Thorngate | January 8, 2008 12:39 PM

Just a note: Iowa had 60% evangelical voters turn out but only 34% voted for Huckabee. Though it made him win, a large percentage of those voted for Romney and others.

Posted by Eric | January 8, 2008 12:52 PM

Matt this is one of those annoying abuses of statistics that drive me crazy with you.

Are you also arguing that the other counties hate Mormons?

What about Italians? Rudy's numbers were abysmal statewide.

And of course, I'm not sure if you think they hate Arizonan's or veterans since they rejected McCain.

Somebody wins, somebody loses. Just because I vote for candidate X doesn't mean I hate candidate Y.

Quit with the statistical nonsense until you learn basic math. (I suggest you start with the dictum that correlation does not imply causation.)

Posted by Jinchi | January 8, 2008 12:55 PM

Turns out Mike Huckabee not only has issues with the Catholics but the Mormons too.

FACT: Mike Huckabee is an ordained evangelical baptist minister of the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention).

Its not secret that the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) doesn't like mormons. In fact, you can find some of their anti-mormon propoganda on their website national website. Click here.

In 1998, Mike Huckabee was the keynote speaker at the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) annual cult-awareness meeting in Salt Lake City, Utah.

It's painfully apparent that Mike Huckabee is an intolerant bigot.

Posted by Steve | January 8, 2008 1:12 PM

Sorry, I forgot to include the source information on Mike Huckabee being the keynote speaker for the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) in SLC, Utah.
http://www.uncorrelated.com/2007/12/huckabee_slings_some_mud.html

Posted by Steve | January 8, 2008 1:14 PM

Jinchi-

You're right that this argument is idiotic. Unfortunately, it's being made by some big-shot polis-sci professors so sniping from a couple of pseudonymous blog commenters probably is not going to help much.

Posted by lemuel pitkin | January 8, 2008 1:43 PM

Mike Huckabee is a religious bigot. He and his supporters trashed Mormonism in order to reduce turnout for Romney. This was deliberate.

He also courts the wacko anti-catholic nuts on the fringe (along with the mormon hating bigots) of the religious rights.

I know a number of Republicans who will never vote for him because of his bigotry. His "faith" is also non-existent. No true Christian would cater to hatred the way Mike Huckabee does.

He may rot in the general election for all I care. For the first time in my life I will vote for an Independent or a Democrat.

Posted by Aaron | January 8, 2008 1:55 PM

I grew up around baptist evangelicals, and their attitudes towards catholics is just plain scary. For a catholic to vote for Huckabee, you would have to be a hard core self-loathing individual.

Posted by Titus | January 8, 2008 2:09 PM

MIKE HUCKABEE INTOLERANCE PROBLEM....

Let us assume for a moment that Mike Huckabee gets nominated by the Republican Party for the presidency. I know it is a bold assumption.. Let us examine his chances of his winning the general election without Mormon votes. Given current American voting trends and demographics, he would have no chance. If the Huckster is nominated, the swing states of Nevada (about 10% Mormon), Oregon (4%) and New Mexico (4%) will swing to the Democrats. Remember that President Bush lost Oregon by a couple thousand votes in 2000; New Mexico by a few hundred and picked it up in 2004 by an equally slim margin. Besides losing swing states in 2008, Republicans could also lose solidly red states if they embrace the bigot for president. What would losing a large voting block in, if not the states of, Utah (1.8 million Mormons), Idaho (15%), Wyoming (14%), and Arizona (6%) (you don’t hear McCain bashing Mormons, do you? in fact he’s done just the opposite) do for Republican hopes in 2008? Defections of Mormons in Colorado (131,000) and California (750,000) might cost a few Republican congressional seats. Losing the most-solidly Republican block in the country, the Mormons, or even putting it in play, would turn red states blue and eliminate any hopes of Republicans holding Colorado in the Senate or retaining the White House.

Mormons are tolerant folks, but they don’t tolerate anti-Mormon hostility, especially the bigotry that has been demonstrated by Huckabee’s supporters and, by extension Huckabee, for Huckabee’s failure to call them on it. So, when all of these Mormons decide that they are not going to tolerate an anti-Mormon bigot in the White House, will Mormons in those states vote for a third party or just stay home? Both options are being openly discussed in Mormon circles. If it is a third party, Mormons trend Libertarian; but that is beside the point. How could you vote for someone who is completely intolerant of your faith? Mormons have marched along supporting the candidates of the evangelical right for decades (who voted more reliably for Bush than Mormons? Not evangelicals.) and this Mormon and many others he happens to be talking to are ready to leave the party if Huckabee is nominated or his anti-Mormon campaign continues to be tolerated by the party.

Think of Idaho, Utah, Nevada and Arizona turning blue? Impossible? Not if an anti-Mormon is on the Republican ticket. People say Romney can’t win without evangelicals, well, Huckabee or any other Republican can’t win without Mormons in 2008. It’s a two-way street. No Republican will win the presidency in 2008 without us.

Before anyone discounts the idea of blue Mormons, consider that Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate is, a Mormon, who, despite being a Democrat, has enjoyed splitting the typically Republican Mormon vote in Nevada. More telling is that Utah County, the home of BYU and the most densely Mormon and Republican area in Utah had a Democrat representing it in Congress for most of the 1990s.

If anyone has any questions about how strongly many of us feel about this, let me say that I am as likely to support Mike Huckabee as Jesse Jackson would support David Duke. Is that clear enough?

Posted by John Doe | January 8, 2008 2:12 PM

True, Huckabee courted anti-Catholics at Cornerstone, and yes, he feigned ignorance toward the LDS faith in 2007 when he gave a keynote anti-Mormon speech in SLC in 1998. I'm not going to call him a bigot or anything; I just don't trust him. I don't trust him when he coyly asks the Jesus-Satan brothers question pretending he doesn't know. I don't trust him when he says he had a change of heart not running an attack ad on Romney but showed the media anyway. I don't trust him when he says you'll never find a YouTube ad on him changing his position (roll the tape of him praising higher taxes to the Arkansas legislature).

Huck won't win because Obama will be the nominee for the Democrats. They are preaching the same populist message, except Obama is in a much better package. McCain or Romney or Giuliani or Thompson can paint a more contrasting view of what they'd do than Huck can with Obama. As a Republican, if it were between Huck and Obama, I would vote for Obama. If he's right, great. If he's wrong, at least a Democrat took the USA down the wrong path. Huck winning the nomination would set the GOP back another decade.

Posted by JT | January 8, 2008 2:19 PM

John Doe:

I am a Mainline Protestant and feel the same way you do. I could never vote for HRC but I could possibly vote for Obama. That or a third party.

Posted by Aaron | January 8, 2008 2:25 PM

John Doe...interesting analysis. I can't say it's absolutely accurate, but I do know Mike Huckabee definitely has an image problem in Utah. Very few Utahns are using the phrase, "I like Mike" if you know what I mean. Should Huckabee get very far in the process, it should be interesting so see how he back pedals and panders to the Mormons. If he truly "loves the Mormons" as was mentioned above, then he's got a funny way of showing it.

Posted by Steve | January 8, 2008 2:32 PM

A lot of Catholics don't like sunny dispositions. They're fearful, envious, prone to melancholia. Presbyterians (moi) like everyone except tics like James Caan.

Posted by Trevor | January 8, 2008 2:40 PM

It's right to be skeptical of this. However I have seen polls that indicate he does poorer with Catholics. Catholic priests are not currently allowed to run for office so Catholics are often more leery of a minister running for office.

That said the Huckabee also does poor with Episcopalians and liberal Protestants. He may even do worse there than with Catholics.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=381

Huckabee's "Episcopalian problem" or "Mainline Protestant" problem is just not going to be as catchy sounding.

Posted by Thomas R | January 8, 2008 3:01 PM

There's a problem with the "REV."

Huckabee's popularity is based on the fact that he has a silent "Rev." in front of his name. It may be silent to many, but it screams to others. Evangelicals see Huckabee as a "Man of God." Catholics see him as "NOT a priest." Americans put way too much credence in religious titles: blind respect or unbridled contempt.

Of the two, blind respect is much scarier.

Posted by Dan V | January 8, 2008 3:24 PM

There's a problem with the "REV."

Huckabee's popularity is based on the fact that he has a silent "Rev." in front of his name. It may be silent to many, but it screams to others. Evangelicals see Huckabee as a "Man of God." Catholics see him as "NOT a priest." Americans put way too much credence in religious titles: blind respect or unbridled contempt.

Of the two, blind respect is much scarier.

Posted by Dan V | January 8, 2008 3:25 PM

I have my doubts about this "correlation". But as a Catholic, I definitely don't like him. I completely disagree with many of his positions, which I don't find to be truly Christian. He also has a certain underlying disregard for the separation of Church and state.

I think Catholics dislike other Christian denominations that put Christianity in general in a ignorant light, i.e. Huckabee's belief in creationism. Most of us love and support reason.

Anyway, I like Obama.

Posted by A.L. | January 8, 2008 3:46 PM

I am a Catholic Huckabee supporter. Like ROd Dreher at Cruncy Con whose has spend two weeks addressing this fauz Catholic controversy that I see referenced in some of the comments I have been busy with it too.

If you want a example go to my Catholic Huckabee section and read the entries up to about Dec 21'st that was when theis Hagee story was used.
http://opinionatedcatholic.blogspot.com/search/label/Catholics%20For%20Huckabee

I will try to monitor this thread through out the day. If any one has a question about Huckabee and Catholic free free to ask

A.L:
I am not sure where you are coming from. I live 15 miles from Arkansas and I saw no evidence that Huckabee deppised Church and State. In fact quite the opposite.

Also let's be clear on this. As a former SOuthern Baptist it has been fun to see how ignorant people are on Evangelicals/Fundamentalist/ etc. People are grouping people all in group like they are the blob

As to Evolution Bush has doubts. I never heard screaming about that. Also you say Creationist!! What is your definition of that. Has Huckabee said he believe the world was created in 6 literal days? Nope. Again the Catholic Church views on evolution and his often mesh at times while there are some differences

Oh as to Reason. Some people don't think I am reasonable because I think Bread and Wine become GOD and not only that his flesh and blood.

Shall we make that now a campaign issue of Orthodox, Catholic and High Anglicans that are going into office.

Perhaps we would be btter off talking about things like the Fair tax

Posted by jh | January 8, 2008 4:37 PM

Tito you said:
Yes, Mike Huckabee does have a "Catholic Problem".

True there are many that do vote for him, but there are equally as much, or more, that don't like him. Though they do want to vote for him.

Why?

Because of Huckabee's anti-Catholic leanings.

I should know, I am part of the Catholic blogosphere and there are many of us wanting to vote for him now that Brownback dropped out. But since his visit to Cornerstone Baptist Church where the anti-Catholic bigot John Hagee preaches he has lost a lot of support around the Catholic blogosphere.

In Jesus, Mary, & Joseph,

Tito of Custos Fidei"
_________________________________

Ok lets stop the double standard here. By the way Huckabee addressed that
BREAKING: Governor Huckabee Addresses Anti-Catholicism
http://opinionatedcatholic.blogspot.com/2007/12/breaking-governor-huckabee-addresses.html

So he did disassociate himself from those statements. Plus he took time and talked to Cathoic Online in the article I linkled above. By the way he does not believe the Pope is the anti Christ. Which is more progressive than one of the largest mainstream bodies of Lutherans in the US ( The Missouri Synod) that has official Doctrine that the offic eof the Papacy is the anti Christ. I shall stay tuned to see if Catholic bloggers demand clarification from Politicians that appear with Lutherans

So what is he position on Catholics? I am not sure what more you can ask. IN the articles I have linked and also that he has put Catholic at the heart of his campaign to get him to the White House I think needless to say his view is pretty good!!! Besides Huckabee entering a RCIA class I am not sure what people want

One word other on Hagee. I think we need to be real here as to double standards. You know , I know , the potted plant in the corner knows the reason he appeared there was because of the Israel vote.

Now I must ask this. It is well known that very Catholic Former Senator Rick Santorum is associated with Hagee political groups and appeared on the same stage with him as did people like Sen Joe Liberman and many other conservatives. We also learn. And seat down for this That Catholic Sen Brownback is assoicated with him too

Now I have not checked the FEC filings but I would not be surprised if both Santorium and Brownback recieved a contribution from his PAC and no doubt had his access to his mailing lists and everything. In fact many Republicans do.

I ahve seen no one else in the Catholic Blogsphere ask Senator Brownback, Senator Santorum, or the the then Chair of the Republican Party to disassociate himself from his anti Catholic views.

If I had a day , I bet it would be very interesting to see what other leading Catholic figures in political life have associated themselves with Hagee.

In the Republican party we have an alliance with these particular Evangelicals that are a specific subset that have strong beliefs on the support of Israel. That is what is going on here.

Posted by jh | January 8, 2008 4:44 PM

By the way Rod Deher hits the soubke standard of the National Review on this issue. Especially as you can see they are trying to create a Hucakbee Catholic problem
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2007/12/huck-hagee-and-tolerance.html

Posted by jh | January 8, 2008 4:54 PM

I think Catholics dislike other Christian denominations that put Christianity in general in a ignorant light, i.e. Huckabee's belief in creationism. Most of us love and support reason.

Riiiiiight. Because Catholic doctrines are so, like, reasonable. Now take off that evil condom and pass me that cup of Jesus' blood, would you?

Posted by Mixner | January 8, 2008 5:00 PM

Clue: I suggest that the further south you go, the more nervous reaction you will see from "papists" about the "give me that good ole time religion" thing.

Posted by artappraiser | January 8, 2008 5:10 PM

1. How many Catholics in Iowa vote Democrat? Not taking that into account makes this whole argument by Yglesias an ignorant attempt at faith-baiting.

2. Chip Saltzman, Huckabee's national campaign manager, is Roman Catholic!

3. Huckabee is not trying to get the Catholic vote, the Evangelical vote, or the left-handed Norwegian Harley-Davidson riders vote. He's trying to garner votes from all segments of our nation - enough to lead the nation as its next President.

Posted by John Desaulniers, Jr. | January 8, 2008 6:12 PM

I don't trust Huckabee. I particularly dislike his bigotry toward other religious groups which is not Christ-like or presidential, in my opinion. We are a huge group with people of every religious stripe or none. Having someone so judgmental in charge would not bode well for those who aren't evangelical. Also, he governed in too liberal a fashion and did unethical things in office.

Huckabee had 17 ethics violations filed against him and was fined for his behavior. He tried to take $70,000 worth of furniture with him when he moved out of the governor's office. (Had to bring it back.) State ethics rules forbid gifts over $100 except for wedding presents so he and his wife (married 28 years) signed themselves up on wedding registries all over the state. He took gifts worth $150,000 from supporters who often got special treatment. He strong-armed the local sheriff to let his son off when the son hung a dog at scout camp.

I also don't see good judgment when I look at his record. Pardoning/commuting the sentences of 1,033 convicted criminals--including 12 murderers now walking the streets--is obscene. That's one every 4 days he was in office. One man he tried to release but couldn't because of public outrage was a guy who beat an 18-year-old girl with numchuks, raped her as she lay dying, then ran over her with his car and dumped her in the bayou. Now, there's a deserving fellow that deserves to walk. Not according to you or me, but to Huckabee, he deserved to be free.

He raised taxes 47%, opposed school choice vouchers, favored open borders and wanted to give illegal aliens in-state tuition. He was known to be testy and thin-skinned.

I do not believe he's electable. Were he to get into office, he would be a disaster--a Republican Jimmy Carter. He is incredibly uninformed and tries to cover with a joke, but running the world's only super power is a serious undertaking. He is not up to the job. We better hope he doesn't make it.

Posted by Bookaholic | January 8, 2008 6:30 PM

I can't believe where some of you folks get your information.... I think the blogs are nothing more than a truth-twisting gossip column.

"He also has a certain underlying disregard for the separation of Church and state."

WHERE ON EARTH ARE YOU PEOPLE DIGGING THIS STUFF UP??? MIKE IS NOT - I REPEAT NOT - FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF ANY - I REPEAT ANY - RELIGION.

You people that think you know Mike Huckabee haven't a clue....

Posted by gander | January 8, 2008 8:26 PM

This Roman Catholic won't vote for Mike Huckabee. Not so much because of the somewhat typical arrogance of many evangelicals toward Catholics, but because he is no conservative.

What I find to be most disconcerting is that those who support him are supporting him because he is the most overt Christian and they seem to be convincing themselves that is all that is required of a President. He is shown himself to be consistently naive about foreign affairs and considering the fact that one of the few responsibilities of the federal government happens to be dealing with foreign entities and our national security, that naivete is frightening.

Posted by Connie | January 8, 2008 11:42 PM

Mixner,

You're an example of a bigot.

artappraiser,

Is that a threat? Maybe Matthew Y. wants to delete your comment. Better yet, investigate the source of the posting and submit that person's personal information to the FBI to being an investigation of that threat.

Tito of Custos Fidei

Posted by Tito of Custos Fidei | January 9, 2008 3:28 PM

I am Catholic and I love Mike Huckabee!

Mike has taken a stand for America. Mike believes in something good and you cannot argue with that, no matter where your faith lies.

Mike Huckabee is not only an authentic conservative, he is an authentic human being.

Mike Huckabee has my Catholic vote as well as every Catholic I know.

God Bless Mike!

Dan Campbell

Posted by Dan Campbell | January 10, 2008 12:14 PM

This map does not indicate that Catholics dislike Huckabee. It shows that fundamentalist Protestants are Huckabee's base.

Where other groups predominate, Huckabee will loose.

Posted by Hellmut | January 10, 2008 2:51 PM

I think Huckabee does have a "Catholic Problem". Not the John Hagee thing- no-one knows about that. Huck should be reasonating with conservative Catholics-he's solid on social issues, and his economic record seems to jibe with much Catholic social thought. I like the guy.
The problem that I, and a lot of socially conservative Catholics like me have with Huck?
He's an ordained Baptist minister. Would I vote for a Baptist? Sure, have before, will again I'm sure. But I'll cop to being very leery of voting for a Protestant clergyman, regardless of denomination.

Posted by RCB | January 10, 2008 5:08 PM

What, specifically, has Gov. Huckabee said which Catholics disagree with??? Baptists/evangelicals & Catholics agree more on doctrine then they disagree. Ordinances & practices differ, but clearly both define the Trinity the same, both hold very similar understandings of God, Christ, and Salvation.

Mormons have virtually nothing in common with Christians/Catholics if one researches how Mormons define the terms shared by them and Christians/Catholics.

I would ask my Catholic friends, surely you don't believe you have as much in common with Clinton or Obama as you do with Huckabee; do you???

Posted by Chas Jones | January 11, 2008 8:59 AM