Proposed new lyrics for the Spanish national anthem rejected on the theory that "long live Spain!" is objectionable because the words "had an authoritarian ring to them and one prominent left-wing leader said they 'stank' of the Franco era." Seems odd to complain about too much nationalism in a national anthem.
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Post-Patriotism
18 Jan 2008 02:44 pm
Comments (29)
The new government of Spain is in a hurry to make all the mistakes made by other European governments in the 1960s-1970s.
Thank God the Spanish had Franco around to keep them from doing it back then!
The truth comes out: Steve Sailer is a liberal.
Liberal fascist that is.
Is it acceptable to complain about too many question marks in our own national anthem?
For pure partisanship, nothing beats Mozambique's "Viva Frelimo!" that just so happens to be supported by the ruling party, Frelimo.
The Spanish national anthem is still dead.
Is it acceptable to complain about too many question marks in our own national anthem?
Right on! Also: I believe a national anthem should be a song that people of modest musical talent can passably sing--which ours is most definitely not!
flippantangel,
I agree 100%. It is too freaking hard for the average Joe to sing. Smaller intervals please.
The concrete phrase "¡Viva España!" was frequently used by Franco's regime and its supporters (the slogan was "España una! España grande! España libre! Viva España!", I think), and is strongly associated with that regime. It's not a really strange complaint, because it really has a certain political connotation in Spain.
The new government of Spain is in a hurry to make all the mistakes made by other European governments in the 1960s-1970s.
Yeah, maybe if they were more like us those Europeans would have standards of living as high as ours.
What's that?
I don't know why they bothered trying. The anthem has always been pretty horrid music, and its only saving grace was that you didn't have to sing it.
It's doubtful they'll come up with lyrics that would satisfy everyone anyway. Better leave it as it stands.
Yeah, you might be a little wary of too much nationalism if you recently lived through a fascist dictatorship. And you might not want to include the former fascist's slogan in the new national anthem.
The only time a country ever needs an anthem is the opening ceremonies at the olympics, and again if you get a medal. There's never any call to sing it. And fans of the Baltimore Orioles should all be bludgeoned. You shouldn't have to sing the damned thing, but if you're gonna sing it, no piggybacking cheers for the home team with it.
Charrua- Thanks for the context. I wondered.
I believe I learned in school way back when that Germany post-WWII uses the second verse of the national anthem rather than the more militaristic first.
Hey, at least the song was made by a Marylander so O's fans have some claim to it. The same can not be said of the Atlanta Braves.
wait, you mean the Spanish national anthem isn't the futbol cheer "olee ole ole oleee oleee ooleee"?
"You shouldn't have to sing the damned thing, but if you're gonna sing it, no piggybacking cheers for the home team with it."-Posted by MikeJ
But Baltimore was the home team when the events in the anthem played out. I think they get a pass on that one.
Quite a few people in Spain would consider putting "Viva España" in the national anthem to be only slightly less offensive than putting "Sieg Heil" in the German one, including a not insignificant number of Basques and Catalans.
Why this pandering to Basque and Catalan separatists? There is no conceivable Spanish anthem that they would agree to sing.
Ever met a Spaniard? They seem to be naturally proud and self-assured people, so they don't need all that patriotic claptrap.
I believe I learned in school way back when that Germany post-WWII uses the second verse of the national anthem rather than the more militaristic first.
Well, actually only the third verse is sung. The first verse is on its face not particularly militaristic or aggressive and wasn't intended that way, when it was written. The song dates back to 1841 when Germany wasn't even a nation and the "Deutschland ueber alles" (Germany above all) wasn't supposed to signify a call for world domination, but rather was meant to inspire the hearts of those fighting for a united Germany, which was actually an enlightened and liberal cause at the time, in opposition to the reactionary forces of monarchy and feudalism.
Needless to say, the Nazis reinterpreted the first verse to suit their own plans. This and the fact that the boundaries outlined by the rivers mentioned in the first verse ("Von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an die Belt") roughly coincided with the Nazi's idea of a Greater Germany made it impossible to keep the verse as part of the national anthem. Some argued that a new song be chosen to get rid of any signs of continuity, but they lost out.
It would also be offensive to a significant number of people who are not Basques or Catalans. Anyone who considers, say, the Falange to have been a negative influence on Spain. The cry of "Viva Espana!" "Arriba Espana!" was (and remains today) a requisite at fascist and Falangist/neo-Falangist gatherings. You often see it spray-painted on walls in right-wing graffiti together with the yoke and arrows, the symbols of the Falangist movement.
"futbol cheer "olee ole ole oleee oleee ooleee"?"
That's a futbol cheer? I hear that at Corrs concerts - including ones outside of Spain. Or is that another cheer?
In any event, national anthems have a place alongside national flags - in the garbage heap of chimpanzee history.
How about a national anthem that has a line saying "we're a great nation because we love everyone else in the world"?
It's okay to lie in a national anthem, isn't it?
The new government of Spain is in a hurry to make all the mistakes made by other European governments in the 1960s-1970s.
Steve, you're losing Europe, the Commonwealth and America.
Time to go down to one of the Guyana's and start "Paultown," already.
Times a-wasting. We're not getting any whiter, sir.
SoCalJustice - Ron Paul stalker or troll? Stay tuned.
Next up on The Daily Freak Show, John Hinckley and his chances for release.
Matt, are you daft?
The other commenters cover this pretty well, but the answer to your confusion is right in the quote you provide: it stinks of Franco.
Well, nationalism is overrated. How did Bertrand Russell put it? Ah, yes. "Patriotism: the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."
To add to Novakant, the second verse of the German National anthem isn't sung because it's kind of offbeat - lots of talk about German women and German wine. The third verse is about unity, right, and freedom, which apparently is more appropriate for a national anthem.
Comments closed February 01, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
The new government of Spain is in a hurry to make all the mistakes made by other European governments in the 1960s-1970s.
Posted by Steve Sailer | January 18, 2008 2:54 PM