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Race Wars

14 Jan 2008 07:35 pm

I stand accused -- "Yglesias and Marshall are quite busy not readying themselves to own up to the fact that one of their main candidates is using surrogates (in this case, a black surrogate, a fiendishly clever move) to peddle the charge of cocaine use to scare off the white women. Period. That’s what she’s doing."

Look, I think the idea that I'm turning a blind eye here is dumb. Anyone who reads the blog knows I'd rather see Barack Obama win the nomination than Hillary Clinton. Her campaign's strategy seems to be to taunt Obama and his supporters into calling her and her campaign a bunch of racists, and then because black people outnumber white people she wins an election that's all about race. It's cynical as hell, and I don't want to be a part of it. Now Bill Clinton's on the radio whining that Obama called Hillary a racist when Obama never did any such thing.

Nor will I call her one, it's a red herring that Clinton's people have injected into the campaign instead of trying to make a stronger affirmative case for their candidate

Let me just fall back to what I've said before: I don't envision core domestic policy issues unfolding incredibly differently in a Clinton or in an Obama administration. I think Barack Obama has given us more indication, both in his record and his proposals, that he'll pursue the kind of foreign policy we need to get the country on track. I'll buy that Obama doesn't have a ton of experience, but the reality is that Clinton doesn't have a ton either. And while Hillary Clinton can probably win in the general election, I think that the bulk of the evidence supports the idea that Obama would have an easier time -- in particular would have an easier time of generating the sort of big win that would be necessary to pass ambitious legislation. Ultimately, that's what the campaign is about. I won't even pretend to be appalled by Clinton's cynicism -- the disenfranchisementgambit and all the rest -- because, frankly, the idea that Clinton would use dishonest political tactics to beat the GOP is, in my view, probably the most appealing thing about her. At the end of the day, though, while I think she'd be okay it's always seemed to me that with other viable options in the field it's made more sense to go with "other options" and now that it's a clear two-person race, I think Obama is clearly the better option.

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Comments (103)

The one thing you can't argue with is Clinton's contention that she's the best candidate to take on the Republican attack machine. That's because she's proven that, smear for smear, the Clinton attack machine is every bit as bad. It's almost like she's got Karl Rove running her campaign.

The Republicans have become a party that believes that nothing is as important as winning an election, and there's no principle they won't compromise if that's what it takes. Unfortunately, I'm afraid Clinton wants to drag the Democratic Party into the same direction.

"Anyone who reads the blog knows I'd rather see Barack Obama win the nomination than Hillary Clinton".- M.Y.

Check

"I think Barack Obama has given us more indication, both in his record and his proposals, that he'll pursue the kind of foreign policy we need to get the country on track" - M.Y.

Uhm...since Obama has been in the Senate he's voted exactly as Clinton has, since this is the totality of his foreign policy experience could you explain Matt?

Matt,

This meta blog has best blog commentators. I only wish NYT was like that.

But, a question.

What if HRC wins the nomination?

If she offers Obama the VP spot, why cannot he refuse? I think he should. But, will there bad implications if he does refuse?

I want Obama not to help HRC become president, after what she and her husband and their friends are doing.

Fred and S.

HRC's experience is: Campaign experience. Obama has been in the elective offices longer.

See this two essays, released only today:

http://www.slate.com/id/2182073/

http://www.newsweek.com/id/91755

HRC experience is vapor-ware.

A question: What if the Web was not there in Dec. 1993? What do you think the economy would have been in Clinton admin? I think Clinton era is over-rated. I think economists have done a poor job in looking at history.

"I don't envision core domestic policy issues unfolding incredibly differently in a Clinton or in an Obama administration."

This seems an odd assumption to me.

Sullivan's favorite Republican is Ron Paul. I'd call it hypocrisy except I think he genuinely lacks the self-awareness to be a hypocrite.

'Uhm...since Obama has been in the Senate he's voted exactly as Clinton has, since this is the totality of his foreign policy experience could you explain Matt?"

S Brennan: How dare you introduce facts.

Matt's post is very good really, even though I am a Clinton hack (still voting for JE on 2/5, for the moment).

The whole Obama versus Hillary debate raises a meta-question: why is this the best that the Democratic Party can offer? We're not talking about electing a queen for the day here, we're talking about electing the nation's chief executive. Where is the Democrats' Mitt Romney? It's not as if there aren't similarly talented, proven leaders of large organizations who happen to be Democrats, so why aren't any of them in the race? Are Democratic business leaders just supposed to shut-up and write checks and let the country be run by a lawyer with minimal Senate experience under his or her belt?

And then I went and read the comment that Yglesias references. Holy cow.

We’re Republicans. We know these people. There is nothing they will not do to regain the Presidency.

Even by Sullivan's low standards, it takes a shocking lack of awareness to suggest that Republicans take the high ground on racial matters compared to the Clintons.

"Where is the Democrats' Mitt Romney?"

We've got a non-telegenic Mormon too. But Harry Reid declined to run for President on our side.

I'm curious: you endorse a candidate being dishonest in order to get elected. If getting the right candidate elected is that important, does this blessing extend to bloggers or the press also being dishonest? I don't mean to be confrontational: I'm actually curious.

Upon reflection, I think that Sullivan can call the Clintons unpricipled on race, because he knows that racism is a Republican principle.

"the idea that Clinton would use dishonest political tactics to beat the GOP is, in my view, probably the most appealing thing about her."

That has to be precisely the least appealing thing about her. People always say that they want to end the nonsense of dirty, ugly politics, and then immediately when a pol wins with the dirty tactics, the public just shrugs and says "it works" and things continue down their shitty-shitty bang-bang path.

It's the least appealing thing to myself and I think many people that Clinton is so extremely... typical.

"Even by Sullivan's low standards, it takes a shocking lack of awareness to suggest that Republicans take the high ground on racial matters compared to the Clintons."

But haven't they, during the Bush-Rove-Mehlman era? Think of the historic appointments of blacks to high offices in the cabinet, the nomination of black Senate candidates in Ohio and Maryland, Mehlman's (largely futile) efforts at outreach, etc.

Obama should refuse the VP spot, and he will if it comes to that.

There's no point in hitching one's star to a sure loser, as Hillary/Anybody will be against McCain/Anybody (but especially McCain/Huckabee.) It won't help win a nomination in 2012 (see John Edwards.)

No, at this point it looks like McCain over Hillary in the general election, which doesn't really make me unhappy. McCain is at least a voice of relative sanity in the today's Republican party (being the only candidate not to stand up for Gitmo and torture is worth something in my book,) and a defeat in the general will hopefully drive a stake through the triangulating heart of the DLC/Clinton machine.

Her campaign's strategy seems to be to taunt Obama and his supporters into calling her and her campaign a bunch of racists, and then because black people outnumber white people she wins an election that's all about race.

Uh - don't you mean white people outnumber black people?

"...using surrogates (in this case, a black surrogate, a fiendishly clever move) to peddle the charge of cocaine use to scare off the white women. Period. That’s what she’s doing."

Sully's just upset because he wants Obama to win the nomination so Republicans can do this. Hillary's stealing their thunder, and in the process denying them the opportunity.

Seriously, does anyone believe that Karl Rove and other GOPers aren't secretly thinking, "Hey, if the Dems nominate a Negro, we might have a shot at pulling this off"?

And did anyone notice that Sully's sock puppet "reader" starts off complaining that Hillary's surrogates want to "peddle the charge of cocaine use to scare off the white women," then concludes that the goal is to keep Obama from winning black support? Sully's readers, it seems, think about as coherently as he does.

Where is the Democrats' Mitt Romney?

A successful multi-millionaire businessman and former governor in hostile territory with great hair?

Mark Warner, being much smarter than Mitt Romney, realized that he was going to lose badly and dropped out before he had a chance to waste his money.

Actually Fred, if you think Mitt Romney is the best the Republicans can offer, I think the question becomes, "why is Mitt Romney the best the Republicans can offer?"

Weird. The Clintons engage in race-baiting tactics and Yglesias basically shrugs his shoulders and says "whatever."

Matt;

You are regrettably part of the "Obama-can-do-no-wrong" crowd.

-You didn't write a thing when that creep Axelrod accused Clinton are baring some responsibility in the assassination of Bhutto.

-You didn't say a thing when Obama's campaign put out the memo Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)

-You didn't say a thing about the Obama Campaign pleading with journalist to rummage in Bill Clinton's post presidential sexlife, although it was written by your colleague in a magazine that had Obama on the cover

- Although it is proven that Bill Clinton never meant Obama's career to be a "fairy tale", his own wife went in front of an African-American crowd in SC and repeated it. That is trying to exploit our resentment towards some Whites who "wronged" us.

I could go on and on.

Not to borrow Donna Brazil's cynical attempt to exploit race, I would like to say "as a Black person" I find to low standard to which people like you are setting for Barack Obama patronizing.

Black is not the new Teflon.

And, don't give up on Edwards yet: a new poll has all three in a dead heat:

http://www.rgj.com/blogs/inside-nevada-politics/2008/01/new-poll-democratic-race-in-nevada-dead.html

In the event of an Edwards win, you could count on quite a bounce for him.

Good post Matt. My main problems with the Clintons are their relentless dishonesty and opportunism. Moreover, in my opinion the first Clinton administration did more bad than good. I'll add my opinion that unlike the Clintons, Obama could get the three or four Republican votes that will be needed in the Senate to pass anything big, like health care reform.

Although it is proven that Bill Clinton never meant Obama's career to be a "fairy tale", his own wife went in front of an African-American crowd in SC and repeated it.

This is a point I nearly brought up above. The logic of thinking Clinton is intentionally race-baiting before the first primary with a substantial black electorate is so ridiculous only Sully could fall for it.

Instead, you've got an Obama campaign, rocked by an unexpected loss in New Hampshire, having its surrogates suggest publicly that the Clinton campaign is racist in order to rally blacks behind Obama.

Both sides have made stupid, bogus claims in this pie fight -- the "they said I was responsible for Bhutto's assassination" whine is just as much a distortion as the MLK/"fairy tale" complaints -- but let's be honest, the racism angle really started to get played up when the Obama camp realized they needed to get more black votes in order to win in South Carolina.

I just saw a bunch of black people yelling on Lou Dobbs. That is exactly what the Clinton campaign wanted. The Clintons know that most people in the real world don't read political blogs and follow this stuff closely. They watch Lou Dobbs. They watch FOX. They see a bunch of "hip/angry Negroes" debating things like coke use and racism on TV and the Clintons calculate that enough white people out there will say, "Well, I don't want to see this on my television for four years!" Beyond obvious.

Hillary will never get my vote. I'd write in "Zombie Reagan" first. And as a New Yorker, I can tell you that this is nothing new for her. But you knew that already.

From CNN today:

Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign came out swinging Monday against the latest complaints from her rival, with former President Clinton announcing he has "a list of 80 attacks on Hillary" by Senator Barack Obama's campaign.

Why doesn't Bill Clinton just shut his yap and go away? This is an ex-president. I don't understand why he wants to play the role of attack dog. It's undignified.

He really is desperate for that "third term" and I hope he doesn't get it. I'm sick of him and I suspect a lot of other Democrats are starting to feel the same way.

It's undignified.

I like a lot of things about Bill Clinton, but dignity is not really his strong suit.

Do you realize how much tail Bill Clinton would get with a third term? The dude is fucking priapic just thinking about all those plump interns.

I agree with everything EzD wrote and this from Swopa - Both sides have made stupid, bogus claims in this pie fight -- the "they said I was responsible for Bhutto's assassination" whine is just as much a distortion as the MLK/"fairy tale" complaints...

Matt just wrote one of his dumbest, most illogical posts, one that jettisons his usual logic and reasoning in favor of Andrew Sullivan-style whining, irrational personal dislike and idol-worship.

Both candidates have made unfortunate comments, but nobody's race baiting and if liberals refuse to vote for a candidate because of her "undue cynicism," or because they don't like her, or, to quote one of Sully's dumber posts: because "the marital psychodrama they inflicted on us for eight long years will be with us once again;" then, they would have repeated the same disdain for Gore in 2000 and would have to bear the responsibility for a McRomney White House.

the disenfranchisementgambit

The post you linked to was completely misleading. The complaint by the teacher's union was because hotel workers were given preferential treatment in their voting that teachers weren't given. To wit (from TalkLeft)

"The teachers union says many of their members will be unable to vote because at caucus time they are required to assist with caucuses being held at the schools they work at, even if they live in different precincts, which will prevent them from voting at their own caucuses."

"Unlike primaries in which people can vote all day, caucuses in Nevada, as in Iowa and elsewhere, require voters to show up at a specified time. To enable participation by those voters who will be working at the scheduled caucus time, the party created the new precincts using a formula based on districts with more than 4,000 shift workers who could not leave work to vote, rather than one based on residency."

"The new at-large precincts are all inside the Las Vegas Strip hotels. Workers attending the hotel caucuses will have to provide identification showing them to be a shift worker and sign a declaration stating they can't attend their "home" caucus because of their work schedule."

"The teachers, and other workers who can't attend caucuses because of work, are not being provided special caucuses and thus they won't be able to vote."

why do i get the impression that many obama supporters only want obama, and not the democratic nominee? sorry, i have a huge problem with you (not you, MY) if you are only in this for obama. if you aren't going to vote for the democratic nominee in the general election regardless of which candidate that turns out to be, then i'd just as soon you stay home during the primary as well. all of you should think about that. don't go so far along with all this media hyped bullshit that you find yourself being turned off to one or the other before the nominee is even determined. if that's the case, republicans win.

also, i am highly suspicious of obama supporters who refer to the "clinton attack machine". if you support obama, please quit attacking your fellow democrats with well worn right wing talking points!

How many white women know who Bob Johnson is? How many white women who wouldn't vote for Obama because he dabbled in drugs are in the BET demographic?

Bob Johnson was making a statement to help Clinton with socially conservative (and probably older) African Americans. Sullivan knows this; he just wants to whine that Clinton/Democrats are not above going Willie Horton.

Bob Johnson's remarks where about more than drugs at the higher frequency.

Matt,

Are you _ever_ going to read your candidate's autobiography, "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"?

Steve

Gary Sugar "Good post Matt. My main problems with the Clintons are their relentless dishonesty"

Relentless.

Karl approves.

Ralph says thanks.

I mean, Thanks Ralph!

isn't it at least racially patronizing to say that bob johnson is a "clinton surrogate"? i mean, can't the man just legitimately be saying what is on his mind without there being some nefarious quid pro quo with clinton? not that he is an angel or anything, but to couch an accusation of racism at hillary by implying that bob johnson isn't speaking for himself is highly problematic at least.

english teacher,

I can't help it if what I see disgusts me.

I came into this election seeing several worthwhile candidates ... Obama has been my preference from the beginning, but I supported Edwards the last time around and had always had a fair amount of respect for Hillary, being a woman who grew up politically during the Clinton era. While only one candidate recieved my money and my time, any of the three would have, without question, recieved my vote in the general.

But I can't turn my back on what I am seeing now: the way both Clintons are distorting Obama's positions in ridiculously obvious ways, the race baiting (even if the Clintons are not directly responsible for much of this, the fact that so much of it bubbles up from their campaign at least speaks to the atmosphere within it), the palpably angry panic radiating from the Clinton camp when it looked like they would lose NH, and now the attempts to intentionally disenfranchise voters in Nevada because they fear they won't all vote the "right" way. I can't forget it and I won't; it says something about the character of this woman we are considering electing to our highest office, and I for one thing character counts for something. Maybe even for more than the little "R" or "D" after their name.

Will I hold my nose and vote for Hillary if I have to? I don't know yet - a lot of that depends on who she would be running against. But I won't say that staying home hasn't crossed my mind. And I won't have you telling me that I am somehow LESS principled if I am unwilling to vote for what I would consider an unplatable candidate.

So, Bob Johnson is like a billionaire, right, or close to it? And we're supposed to believe that billionaires are puppets whose every utterance while speaking is controlled and calibrated by the candidate they help finance?

I am watching Fox (Dick Morris). He said that Clinton's highest AA appointment was Sec. of Labor. May be I forgot. Is this true?

Morris went to dissect Clinton AA record, and mentioned that it was not great. Is this a correct assessment? If yes, when are people like John Lewis support HRC. Why is Clinton called the First Black President?

(Morris give higher points to Bush for Powell and Rice - but they went for war. So, may be that was not a good stat.)

Hillary would be the best thing to happen to the Republican congress. Bill managed to decimate the Democratic party at all levels of state and federal officeholders and she'd do the same. Even so, Clinton shows she has a lot smarter people than Deval Patrick's competitors.

The attacks on Obama have that Karl Rove magic; they stick because there is some truth to them. Obama's claim is awfully fluffy.

anti:

well, i won't even address all the spin you regurgitate in your second paragraph. if that's enough for you to not vote for clinton, then fine. but i am just telling you right now that if you or any of the overly excited obama supporters don't think you can bring yourself to vote for the nominee in the general election, then you are opening the door for the republican, who will be worse, to slip in. that is what is happening here. this is not about obama, or hillary, or race, or gender. this is about the republican media machine trying to trim off black support for hillary, or white support for obama, just enough to make it close. AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY MAKE IT CLOSE.

so right, if you can't bring yourself to say "i'm voting for the nominee regardless" then you should just do us all a favor and stay home on primary day. that, or encourage your candidate to run as an independent since that's what they'll be if they don't win the nomination.

If Obama can't stand this tiny bit of heat, what's going to happen to him when the Republicans bring up his spiritual adviser for the last 20 years, the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah T. Wright Jr., who went with Louis Farrakhan to visit Col. Gadaffi in Libya?

Oh, I know, he's going to accuse everybody who mentions the existence of the man from whom he got the title of his last book, "The Audacity of Hope," of being a racist.

Yeah, that'll do the trick!

I like a lot of things about Bill Clinton

Like what? Gutting welfare? NAFTA? Bombing pharmaceutical factories in the Sudan? "Three strikes and you're out"? Extraordinary rendition? Popping out from the campaign trail to execute retarded black people?

english teacher:

I have already mentioned this before. I am not voting for HRC. My loyalty is to my country, not to Clinton Family entitlement. I have contributed to Obama, and I believe in him. I believe he has been taken to task by Clinton "gasp" Attack Machine. See the new Newsweek essay on Obama (www.newsweek.com). Obama campaigned forgot how the Clintons operate.

May be I will not vote for anyone if Obama is not on the ballot. May be I might vote for McCain. Bottom line: My distate for HRC is too deep. I really do not want to return to drama of 1990s. Energy, time, money are not renewable source. She will not be able to do anything should she win. She is bad. Her experience is campaign experience. Obama (and McCain) have more elective experience than her.

Bottom line: You should as a HRC fan. Your main purpose on this thread is to make Obama supporters feel that they should vote for HRC if she wins. Take it from me: You have no idea of what a hole HRC has created. Check out the comments on various sites (cacus.nytimes, tpm, dailykos, etc.) No one likes HRC. Why do you like her? Are you on her payroll? Do you belong to that group that gave her the votes to squeaky win in NH? Call me traitor if you wish, but I loathe Clintons. This is a free country. Forget you. Forget HRC.

The Clintons' race-baiting is incredibly smart. It is subtle and, because it is mostly coming from surrogates, has plausible deniability. If Obama tries to address the attacks, he risks being accused of playing the race card or acting like a victim. Addressing the smears also undermines his ability to stay above racial politics. If he doesn't address the attacks, then he appears weak for not defending himself. Those Clintons are ruthless.

Sullivan is such a tool. Sorry but I can't think of any better way to describe him at this point.

Where is his post dis-avowing Obama's use of McClurkin as a surrogate to appeal to homophobes in South Carolina? I'm still waiting for that one, I'm sure it's there somewhere amongst all of the anti-Hillary/Human Rights Campaign posts.

Steve, it's the other way around - the billionaries make the candidates their puppets. Johnson tells Hillary, "you race-bait because I know it works or you don't get more money from me." Johnson knows blacks - he knows that race-baiting will just stir up trouble for Obama among white voters of a certain demographic. It might backfire on Clinton but he's betting not.

Not to mention where the Zionist billionaries are likely to come from in that area.

Bottom line: Clinton is corrupt. We know this from the Marc Rich pardon if not everything else in Bill and Hillary's lives. Period. Full stop. End of story. The Clintons are corrupt.

We don't know that Obama is corrupt - yet, anyway.

What we do know is that neither Obama or Clinton have a clue on foreign policy. Both of them will end up getting us in a war with either Iran, Pakistan or both, based on this cluelessness, if not actual malice. Clinton will get us in a war with Iran because that's what her Zionist supporters want. Obama might not do it for that reason, but because he doesn't understand the nuances of foreign policy and how to avoid wars.

And for what it's worth, Josh Marshall IS explicitly saying at TPM that what the situation looks like is Clinton race-baiting in order to stir up black supporters of Obama in order to scare off white voters. He's not sure if this is deliberate or just an effect of stupid staff members but that's the effect - and the repetitiveness of it tends to negate the idea that it's accidental.

Marshall says that the "fairy tale" thing was not about Obama's career. Based on the Clinton quote he cites, that seems correct to me. But he also says there's no doubt that Johnson was referring to drug use on the part of Obama in the Johnson quote cited. That has to be deliberate. Whether that was sanctioned by Clinton may be up in the air, but all that means is "plausible deniability" - and that's right out of Karl Rove's playbook.

The Clintons remember how often the charge that Bill Clinton fathered a child from a black woman came up in past elections. They figure turn about is fair play even when it isn't against Republicans.

well, since obama is running for the DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION, then yes, his supporters should vote for the eventual DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE. the democratic party is not here for obama's personal vanity. fact is, i don't think obama thinks of it that way, just a lot of his supporters.

i think obama would make a decent president. i never said otherwise. i plan to vote for him if he is the nominee, and i will do so gladly, despite the fact that pricks like you support him. in the meantime, i plan to support edwards and still hope he can win the nomination.

and why should i check out comments on various sites to see a few dozen people repeatedly posting the same tired lies about senator clinton? do you not realize that it is entirely possible for someone to pretend to be something they are completely not on the internet, and that the republicans have spent vast sums of money on "trolls" who post comments to disrupt democratic discussion boards, cause confusion, and catapult right wing talking points?

Obama diffused this today:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-damps-dow.html

Classy move on Obama's part. He goes above the fray and returns to policy distinctions.

I don't know if this fracas damaged either candidate, but it probably hurt the party. It was cynical move by the Clintons but I can't say I'm surprised. Hopefully, this is now put to rest and the campaign can move on.

Also, John Edwards is still hanging around in Nevada. He's a definite longshot, but I wouldn't write his obituary yet.

english teacher:

I am now convinced (e.g., " a few dozen people repeatedly posting the same tired lies about senator clinton?"), you are a Clinton supporter.

Thus:

Your main purpose here is to encourage Obama supporters to vote for her in the general.

This is called damaged control. Building bridges (after you burned them).

I know (and people can quote me) I think HRC will win the nomination. Because of dirty tricks the campaign by the husband-and-wife team is running.

(Has there ever been a scenario where a candidate has two opponents - one official, and a spouse of that person? Poor Obama, so much pressure and so many people against him.)

I am just concerned about Obama. I want no harm to come to his future. I am still optimistic. But, I know the Clinton Attack Machine. Yes, it exists. See slate.com column today by Hitch.

Andrew Sullivan is a hypocrite of epic proportions. He would be screaming to high heaven if, say, Al Sharpton were engaging in the kind of baseless accusations that the Obama campaign is.

And you know what? If Hillary IS trying to race-bait Obama, good. He better learn how to deal with it, because he's going to see it a thousand times more vicious in the general election, if he's the nominee.

I am almost sickened by the casualness with which Democrats are willing to accuse the Clinton campaign of hatching some jujitsu double-reverse mindfuck plan wherein they win the nomination by subtly making racial jabs in order to provoke a reaction, because being labeled a racist is surely the road to victory in a Democratic primary campaign.

This has now been turned into a racial battle, and the result, whoever wins, will not be good for the Democratic party. You can thank the media and the Obama campaign when President McCain is sworn in 2009.

If I made one-cent everytime people said something like:

If Obama cannot handle Clintons, then wait till the GOP goes after him.

This is the biggest bull-shit I have heard. No one in the entire vast right wing GOP is any match for Clintons. No one. Not now. Not tomorrow. Not in the past.

In fact, if Obama can beat Clintons, then he will easily take on GOP.

Why not say that? Yes, why, indeed, not?

Johnson is a "surrogate" for the Clinton campaign. As far as his clarification of the obvious reference to Obama's early drug use, it is a denial of reality and no one believes it.

The Clinton's, however, just hang their hat on what is known to be a lie by everyone and they just tell us to "move on folks...nothing to see here."

While Johnson gave White people something to chew on, his other, less reported, remarks about how Obama was like Sidney Poitier's character in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" was even more evidence of intent to inflame racial tensions only that one was aimed at Blacks.

The GOP has plenty of scumbags that make the Clintons look like Miss Manners.

Jesus Christ, this is the party of the Swift Boat vets, the Max Cleland loves Osama ads, the John McCain had a black baby rumors, the Starr report, etc. etc. etc.

Beating the Clintons will be a good test. If he can do that, maybe he can beat the GOP.

Maybe. Accusing your opponents of racism at the drop of a hat may be a good way of winning the Democratic primary, but it's a great way to lose the general election.

So Jason C. this is now a racial battle, and that's bad because the republicans will win, but race-baiting is good because it will toughen up Obama in the general election? But it doesn't matter because it's all the Obama campaign's fault anyway?

Why not skip all this incoherant stuff and just write "I HEART HILLARY"?

Or "RACE-BAITING TURNS BOYS INTO MEN" or whatever it is you're really trying to say.

So Jason C. this is now a racial battle, and that's bad because the republicans will win, but race-baiting is good because it will toughen up Obama in the general election? But it doesn't matter because it's all the Obama campaign's fault anyway?

You're not really reading what I've said. I don't think Hillary actually is conducting a racist campaign. Accusing her of doing so when she's not is bad news for the party.

If she WERE, and Obama managed to gracefully outmaneuver her anyway, then it would be good preparation for Obama if he's the general election candidate.

I have to agree with english teacher - this bizarre view of HRC as having an all-powerful, unprincipled, cold, cynical, Orwellian machine is frightening. Now, it may be that the view is shared by a few fervent people who spend too much time on blogs. This would be good. But if its more widespread, then the prospect of a Democratic electorate sharing the right-wing narrative on the Democratic front-runner bodes ill for the country.

In college, I remember having a bunch of friends who were die-hard Naderites and who insisted Gore was just like Bush. Well, Obama is alot better then Nader, and I would gladly vote Obama.

But if Barack loses in the primary, I see a similar, and equally disturbing "they're both the same" logic which is bizarre because Nader REALLY IS ALOT DIFFERENT then both. At least then, people were (I'd say foolishly) trying to change the machine with the way they voted, not abandoning the effort b/c a part of the machine had a cosmetic feature they dissaproved of.

The one point in this - and the only point that matters - is that a major Democratic candidate for president is race-baiting as a campaign tactic. You expect this from the repulsive GOP but from a Democrat it is positively sickening. I've never voted for a Republican presidential candidate in my life, but if Hillary wins the nomination I'm not sure I could stomach voting for her.

Wow, un-fucking-believable. This post makes me sick to my stomach. Matt seems to believe this is a mere strategy, a tactic, which might be slightly distasteful, but which is within the bounds of acceptable campaigning. Hardball, as it were. You need to understand that this entirely unacceptable. You are enabling and furthering racism in America and the only way to handle it is to stand up and shout that it will not be tolerated. It's very easy for effeminate Northeastern prep school boys to take tough stands against their vague notion of racism in the South. It's obviously more difficult for metro-sexual girly men to figure out how to handle it when it shows up close to home. I am disappointed. Grow some balls. After this, Clinton wouldn't get my vote if she were running against Hitler.

engaging in the kind of baseless accusations that the Obama campaign is.

Personally, I would never call the Clintons racists when 'unprincipled hacks' will do... but I have to say that most of their online supporters make unprincipled hackdom look like an improvement. Thank God I'm in a state where my general election vote is irrelevant.

Except for an issue like abortion, Hillary isn't much different from a Republican anyway, especially when it comes to foreign policy and her desperate need to prove she is "tough." Sorry, some of us aren't ditto heads who follow party orders. No, I won't vote for Hillary if she is the nominee for the same reason I wouldn't have voted for Lieberman when he was still pretending to be a Democrat. I would gladly vote for Edwards or Obama. If the Democratic party is dumb enough to nominate Hillary, it deserves to lose -- which it would anyway.

The whole point of this response is to not fall into the trap of accusing Hillary of racism, because that's exactly what she wants. No one will take the accusation seriously, and it will look bad on Obama. Also, it's a shitty direction to be taking the debate over who should be the next president of the United States.

Re Matthew's comment "I won't even pretend to be appalled by Clinton's cynicism -- the disenfranchisementgambit and all the rest -- because, frankly, the idea that Clinton would use dishonest political tactics to beat the GOP is, in my view, probably the most appealing thing about her."
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Ha ha ha.
Speaking as a Southern boy, I have to say that I feel a warm glow at young Matthew finally catching onto how politics works.

Anyone ever read John McDonald's "Travis McGee" series of novels? Matthew's comment reminds me of a scene in which PI Travis is talking to an old Florida sheriff re a local lawyer who's slated to marry into a wealthy local family.

The Sheriff has explained that the lawyer is running for state office in order to help the local power structure gain a lock on some lucrative defense contracts/real estate deals-- with huge profits involved.

Travis explains that he's just talked with the patriarch of the wealthy family -- the prospective father-in-law -- and has explained that said lawyer is a murderer, a drug dealer, and a sadist.

Whereupon the sheriff gives a shark-like grin and explains that the the local boys probably didn't want no sissy pulling for them in Tallahassee.

Obama today
"I don't think it was in any way a racial comment," Obama told ABC News. "That's something that has played out in the press. That's not my view."

Obama spokeswoman Candice Tolliver January 11
A cross-section of voters are alarmed at the tenor of some of these statements,” said Obama spokeswoman Candice Tolliver, who said that Clinton would have to decide whether she owed anyone an apology. “There’s a groundswell of reaction to these comments (MLK and fairytale) — and not just these latest comments but really a pattern, or a series of comments that we’ve heard for several months,” she said. “Folks are beginning to wonder: Is this really an isolated situation, or is there something bigger behind all of this?”

Amaya Smith Obama's South Carolina Press Secretary leaks "Clintons are using race" memo which includes the MLK/LBJ comparison January 11 or 12

While Senator Obama never said the MLK/LBJ comment was racist (he classified it as an unfortunate remark) his campaign certainly implied it was racist. Now that he wants to move beyond the controversy he blames the press while ignoring the role his campaign had in the meme.

not fall into the trap of accusing Hillary of racism

I keep hearing this claim that people are calling Hillary a "racist," mainly from Bill Clinton. But, actually, most people are doing no such thing. They are calling her "shameless" or "cynical" or maybe "Karl Rove in a pants suit," but I have seen very few people claim that she is a "racist." She's just not above using race in the same way that the GOP uses it.

But I agree with you that that is precisely her goal here.

Doesn't Obama really believe that by voting for him, you are part of a great campaign, specifically because he is black?

Good post.

Re eorse's comment " No one in the entire vast right wing GOP is any match for Clintons. No one. Not now. Not tomorrow. Not in the past."
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Oh, bullshit.

I've told you guys --Hillary CLinton's chance of being President is DOOMED.
How can I put this in words that her backers will understand?

Hillary is cursed.

She is cursed in the city -- and she is cursed in the fields. She is cursed going in --and she is cursed going out. Her misfortune will be an object of awe to the nations of the earth.

The only thing she has is Wild Bill's legacy -- and that's a poisoned well. Poisoned in a way not made public yet but which will be revealed by the Republicans if the Democrats are stupid enough to make Hillary the nominee.

In 1999 , Wild Bill fucked the security of this country in a way that makes 911 look like a clambake. Pelosi, Dean, et al really need to have a talk with Melvin Dubee and get the bad news now.

Because otherwise they're going to be hearing it from Porter Goss, Dana Priest or David Geffen. Or maybe all three.

I don't envision core domestic policy issues unfolding incredibly differently in a Clinton or in an Obama administration. I think Barack Obama has given us more indication, both in his record and his proposals, that he'll pursue the kind of foreign policy we need to get the country on track.

That's pretty much my take too, although I think Obama might have a somewhat better chance of getting some of that core domestic policy agenda passed because ... you know ... he's so awesome.

I'm somewhat impressed, but not hugely impressed, with Obama's foreign policy. Still I do think the direction he wants to go in is significantly better than the direction in which Clinton would likely take us. I really do see Clinton's approach as strategically unimaginative Bush-lite, but with bonus managerial competence. I also have more confidence that in an unforeseen crisis Obama will gather the best objective information he can and actually try to do what appears to be the best thing for the country as a whole, whereas I don't trust Clinton to do any more than accede to the preferences of her most important political backers.

The reason why I think Dean, Pelosi,etc need to talk with Melvin is that Hillary is pissing some people off with her hypocritical "I'm not planning to exploit my opponent's crack habit" tactic. See http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7871.html

So somebody might be tempted to preempt the Republicans -- and pull the trigger now.

Going for Obama on generational change might do the trick. However that would demand repudiating the 60s-style politics of Bill, Hillary and George W.

From the politico article I cited above:

"Obama has admitted in his memoir to using drugs as a young man, and Hillary Clinton has said personal attacks using that information are off-limits. Except they keep coming, in what are now at least three direct or indirect drug references from top Clinton surrogates in recent weeks.

It happened again Sunday, at a Clinton campaign event before the senator went onstage....
...Clinton officials were pressed on Monday for explanations why the drug issue keeps being blurted from the mouths of top Clinton aides if the topic is supposedly verboten. "

"Going for Obama on generational change might do the trick" - wellbasically | January 15, 2008 12:00 AM

Like everything in the Obama campaign this is another falsehood. Obamma and I would have been two years apart in high school. I am considered the prime babyboom year.

BTW, he attended THE most exclusive high school in Hawaii

"The reason why I think Dean, Pelosi,etc need to talk with...is that Hillary is pissing some people off"

I have three woman friends who plan on voting for Hillary and all have complained of Obama MEN harassing them. They all say they would never vote for the guy.

I've never seen what there talking about, all i see is Obama folks acting like snotty upper class jerks.

MY - I'll buy that Obama doesn't have a ton of experience, but the reality is that Clinton doesn't have a ton either. And while Hillary Clinton can probably win in the general election, I think that the bulk of the evidence supports the idea that Obama would have an easier time -- in particular would have an easier time of generating the sort of big win that would be necessary to pass ambitious legislation.

Beware of that charismatic someone with limited to no experience in lower executive positions who is a gifted orator that sees the adulating crowds and media and thinks they have a destiny to immediately start out for the top position. And finds the people are with them for no reason but "awakened feelings" William Jennings Bryant, Alan Keyes in his early days, and Hitler come to mind. It doesn't violate Goodwin's law to note that Hitler was an ethnic minority (Austrian) appealing to pan-Germanic cravings of the people, got his start in "community organizing", rose to the top on his stunning, enthralling orations.

The whole Obama versus Hillary debate raises a meta-question: why is this the best that the Democratic Party can offer? We're not talking about electing a queen for the day here, we're talking about electing the nation's chief executive. Where is the Democrats' Mitt Romney? It's not as if there aren't similarly talented, proven leaders of large organizations who happen to be Democrats, so why aren't any of them in the race?

Good question. This is the weakest field in term of qualifications and executive experience the Democrats have shown since the 1857 contest that gave us James Buchanan. Toss in Edwards and that is still true.

Hey S Brennan, I never said you shouldn't be president!

i think many people, perhaps including MY, are making the common and easily understood mistake of attributing any potential progressive legislation we may (or may not) see under the next administration soley to the person of the executive. i agree that there would probably be very little difference in terms of legislative outcomes regardless of whether obama or clinton are elected. THE IMPORTANT POINT TO REMEMBER is that either will be emboldened or curtailed by the extent to which the democratic party controls both houses of congress. a huge congressional majority would likely propel either to more dramatic programs than they are now proposing, whereas a narrow majority would similarly curtail each. the problem with this whole kerfluffle, therefore, is the extent to which it dampens enthusiasm for either candidate to the extent that his or her supporters will stay away from the general election out of resentment over this temptest in a teapot. this election could seriously curtail progressive legislative action - such as exiting iraq - or force it to a head with a huge democratic majority. this is what is at stake here. if obama (or clinton) supporters stay away in november out of hurt feelings that their candidate didn't win, or out of an inability to overcome the decade and a half long smears of the right wing media then WE ALL LOSE. if you are voting in the democratic primary, please vote in the general election even if your candidate is not the nominee. do not let this media driven exercise stop you from going to pull the lever in november for democratic candidates for all federal offices. if they fuck it up, vote them out in 2010. thank you.

Actually Chris Ford, that kind of analogy is exactly what Godwin's Law was designed to repudiate.

MY just hit this one out of the park.

Thank you, kind sir.

And like many of the posters above, I am in no way beholden to the Democratic Party.

This bunch of feckless idiots has been unable to land any sort of blows on a reeling Republican Party in the last 18 months. Hillary will not only lose to McCain - she'll govern like McCain as well.

Here's to hoping that the American populace can rise above 20th century ignorance and fear and vote for the only man prepared to right the course our country is on.

chris ford, what a sad, mentally-debilitated comment. Your attempt to draw an analogy between obama and hitler is the height of crazed wing-nut raving.

And by the way, positing the Austrians as an "ethnic minority" in relation to the Germans is just plain bizarre to anyone who understands European history and culture. You can of course talk of a national/political division between the Austrians and Germans, but a meaningful ethnic distinction is much less obvious. Why don't you just stick to your rote right-wing talking points? I think the broader canvas of Western Civ. is just a bit above your pay grade, no offense...

"either will be emboldened or curtailed by the extent to which the democratic party controls both houses of congress"

-- who is more likely to lose congress?

Actually, if we can steel our stomachs for a moment of admiration for Hitler, we could accept Chris Ford's accidental praise of Obama. Hitler was an extremely effective leader who helped get Germany back on its feet again after a debilitating depression. He let it go to his head, and went on afterwards to do horrible things. But I think we can trust that Obama won't be spearheading world war three, and if he retains the positive characteristics of the fascist Ford compares him to, we'd be well off indeed to elect him.

Matthew writes:

"I don't envision core domestic policy issues unfolding incredibly differently in a Clinton or in an Obama administration."

Exactly why the winner of the Obama v. Clinton contest should select the loser to become the vice presidential running mate. In my aspects, including their common take on domestic policy, they are ideal mates.

Democratic Unity Ticket '08

It's Christmas in January for Hillary!

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/01/trumpet-gala-2007.html

Here's the Youtube video created by Barack Obama's Chicago church to commemorate the 2007 Trumpet Gala bash last November 2, where the Presidential candidate's long-time spiritual advisor, Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr., gave his

Lifetime Achievement

Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Trumpeter Award

to

The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan

Kind of puts the Ron Paul - Marty Peretz spat in perspective ...

The only person who gives a shit about this is you, Mr. Sailer. As much as you'd love for something like this to sway the electorate, it doesn't even have a chance of getting play. Nor should it.

Sure, keep telling yourself that, over and over again.

It's not just my opinion, it's the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.'s opinion too:

"When [Obama's] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli" to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Mr. Wright recalled, "with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell."

And today, Richard Cohen is giving it play on the op-ed page of the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Sorry, but I've been telling you all for months that Rev. Wright (he's the guy who gave Obama the phrase "The Audacity of Hope") is a massive headache for