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The Bloc That Wasn't There

02 Jan 2008 10:30 am

There's too much in this Barnett Rubin post on Pakistan to even try to summarize (always the sign of a good piece) so read it yourself. I'll just pull out one insight he offers about the way the United States (I think it's unfair to make this out to be an idiosyncratic failing of the Bush administration) sees the world:

The Bush administration has decided that in the "Muslim world" a battle is going on between pro-American "moderates" and anti-American "extremists." According to them, the "Muslim world" has a two-party system organized around how Muslims feel about America. In Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf is a "pro-American moderate." Benazir Bhutto is a "pro-American moderate." Therefore it is only logical (and in U.S. interests!) for the U.S. to realign Pakistan politics so that the "moderates" work together against the "extremists.

To America, in short, the defining issue in Pakistani politics is . . . people's attitude toward America. But of course that's not how it looks in Pakistan, where "it is not just a random problem that the 'pro-American moderate' institution headed by General Musharraf executed Benazir's father and held her for years in solitary confinement." In short, Pakistani actors and institutions need to be understood in terms of their own interests and goals. Meanwhile, Pakistan's elections are going to be delayed until February, but the real issue would seem to be less the timing of the election than the extent to which the security services will try to rig them.

Elections aside, one thing Rubin emphasizes is the extent to which the military has tended to allow civilian rule just insofar as military retains control over everything it cares about.

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Comments (18)

Look, you know this game.

Any political leader who seems interested in doing what is preferred by the U.S. foreign policy establishment is a pro-American moderate barely holding off the extremists. Until such time as they are replaced by other pro-American moderates, when they can be labeled in retrospect as divisive and not helpful to American interests.

Had Bhutto survived and somehow replaced Musharraf, at that time Musharraf would be referred to as a troublingly divisive leader and fortunately he was replaced by such a better pro-American moderate.

Since Bhutto was killed (possibly by Musharraf or his allies), Musharraf remains for the moment a "pro-American moderate" until his replacement arrives.

El Cid is right. From the American point of view, it's always been about whether a foreign political figure will do our bidding or not. If yes, he's a moderate, if not he's a dangerous and irresponsible rabble-rouser. More imperial bullshit.

I thought Barnett Rubin was supposed to be the smart guy on Pakistan. So why trot out this ridiculous straw man?:

"According to them, the "Muslim world" has a two-party system organized around how Muslims feel about America."


What is the point of appointing successor heads of Parties or even having elections when Musharaff is going to give the jihadis a clear shot at the candidates?

Part of the problem with Pakistan seems to be that we focus too much on the Taliban/Al Qaeda issue to the exclusion of other Pakistani issues; and, paradoxically, if we put more diplomatic effort and pressure into solving the other issues, Pakistan might be better-positioned to deal with the jihadist nutters. For example, instead of the umpteenth diplomatic surge on Israel/Palestine, why not coordinate an international effort to resolve the India/Pakistan dispute over Kashmir? Wasn't the Pakistani military's embrace of the jihadists partly motivated by insecurity about India? Also, some pressure to deal equitably with Baluchistan might be helpful.

But Fred, you forget, this administration doesn't "do" engagement with countries and peoples as they are and as they want to be - a la Karl Rove, it decides on a different reality and tries to impose it (ham-handedly). Seriously, I agree with your approach, which I think would do us a lot of good as an honest broker as opposed to supporter of puppets.

Yes, and this whole situation reminds me a little of one of the old SAT analogy questions:

Washington is to the politics of the Muslim World as...

...AIPAC is to the politics of Washington

Terry Pratchett nailed this years ago, in "The Fifth Elephant". I can't remember the exact quote, but it had to do with two factions of dwarves battling over political power, and when the main character (Sam Vimes) asks which faction supported his home of Ankh-Morpork, he is told that while one faction wants A-M burned to the ground, the other merely strongly dislikes everything that Ankh-Morpork stands for; when Vimes expresses puzzlement at this, he is gently reminded that there are millions of beings all over the world whose political systems, believe it or not, are not run based upon the well-being of a foreign country.

Not for the first time, I wish there was more sci-fi/fantasy on the US military's reading list than "Starship Troopers".

Fred, I think we focus so hard on "solving" Israel-Palestine because

a) American and other non-Israeli Jews, by which I mean a group of very rich and politically mobilized people, really, really want peace for Israel, but are unwilling to support the draconian measures Israel probably has to take to achieve a "peace". Therefore, diplomatic overtures replace population expulsion. Moreover, these same people, joined in the US by Evangelical Christians, are also unwilling to sacrifice the essential Jewish nature of the state, so they want a separate place for the Arabs, as opposed to letting them become Israelis. They would love to see the Arabs leave Palestine, but they're not willing to take the awful measures necessary to do so. Meanwhile, the Pakistani and Indian diasporas, which are far less powerful in this country, basically want the other side kicked out of Kashmir. Full stop. So partition really isn't a possiblity for either of the two parties.

b) We make the (false) assumption, that, because the Palestinians are a stateless tribe with no government institutions or powerful military, we can dictate terms to them. Compare this to the fact that Pakistan and India possess two of the world's largest armed forces, nuclear weapons, and demographics that allow them latitude in pursuing jingoist policies. I'd like to see someone try to bully either of these nuclear powers.

c) The ISI seems to be almost completely unaccountable to Pakistan's rulers, whether civilian or military. Now, obviously, a major player in the Israel-Palestine issue is similarly intractable (Hamas), but the difference is that Hamas is a recent organization that is fairly unsophisticated, and faces constant threats to its existence. The ISI, which has a protected base in Pakistan, has been fighting the war against India in Kashmir for something like 50 years. Asking them to stop this would be like asking Oliver North to stop destablizing Communist governments in the 3rd World. It's just what he does.

Greg makes some good points in his comment of 11:23. And then there's the mega-issue: Americans are so scared completely s***less of Islam that almost anything we say or think about the Muslim world is likely to be severely biased or at least oversimplified.

Re Greg

I think that Mr. Greg considerably overestimates the military capabilities of Pakistan. Despite there nuclear capability, Pakistan is basically a weak country which, in a war with India, would be overwhelmed in fairly short order. Unless, that is, the Government of Pakistan is willing to trade Rawalpindi for New Delhi, Islamabad for Calcutta, etc.

Reacting to Jonathan's post about Terry Pratchett: Over TP's last few books, the equation dwarfs:Ankh-Morpork::Muslims:Britain has become increasingly transparent. (Whereas, earlier, in Jingo Muslims + "Klatchians." I thought Thud! had an interesting insight about the value of the "Deep Dwarfs" (= Finsbury Mosque) as a psychological anchor.

(Non-Pratchett readers will have no clue about this, but I am not going to try to explain the man in a blog post.)

Compare this to the fact that Pakistan and India possess two of the world's largest armed forces, nuclear weapons, and demographics that allow them latitude in pursuing jingoist policies. I'd like to see someone try to bully either of these nuclear powers.

Greg is part of the non-military that think that having a nuclear deterrent makes a country immune to being bullied around. India was bullied by China, America saw skyscrapers fail and people killed abroad, was routed out of Lebanon. In the Cold War, the Soviets bullied us with invasions, proxy wars, Cuba and export of communism to other lands, and attacked us from within with spy cells and Communist subversion.
Russia saw the US bully them economically, in consortia with the Jewish Oligarchs, on elections in their sphere in Georgia, Khazakstan, Ukraine, Baltics. Nuclear Israel only exists because the US will block an oil embargo from eliminating it's existence in 2-3 months.

Nuclear-armed Pakistan could be ended in half an hour, with no US losses in the near term, though premptive nuclear war that killed 10s of millions would not sit well in long-term history or our relations with other nations.
In a conventional conflict, Pakistan is a near-failed nation, a basket case - at Day 1 of such a war. They have 170 million people and a far better military than, say, Iraq's, but the Paks are dependent on others for almost all the energy and technology they need to run a modern nation. We bomb their irreplacable with local talent critical infrastructure nodes, their military effectiveness is cut 75%. We would prevail, and if a regiment in Waziristan or a carrier in the Indian ocean vanished in a mushroom cloud, the war would be very short.

Jesus, Chris, India was invaded by China in the 1960s. Before India had a significant deterrent.

And I'll let Israel's finest military historian refute your claim about Israel.

“We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force…. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”

Moreover, are you even aware of the fact that Israel wasn't really an ally until 1967? Israel spent 20 years relying on the French, and some Soviet support. They seemed to have survived just fine.

"“We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome."

What's scary about that is that he picked "Rome" of all cities. That's because the Jews are still pissed about Titus sacking Jerusalem. I bet that nuke would centered on his arch.

SLC of courses misses the point that INDIA is not terribly willing to "trade Rawalpindi for New Delhi, Islamabad for Calcutta, etc." - which is WHY Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

In short, MAD.

The point of Pakistan's military elite, as Rubin points out, is to insure Pakistan's continued viability as a state in which they hold the power.

And they have to hold the power because that's what they believe - that India would take them without a strong military that controls the state.

Here's a solution for the US: steal Pakistan's nukes, let India subsequently take them out. A nice big war that will dwarf Afghanistan and the Taliban and Al Qaeda as an issue. Might even make Chris Ford happy to see millions of Muslims dead in Pakistan.

Ford rants: "Nuclear-armed Pakistan could be ended in half an hour, with no US losses in the near term, though premptive nuclear war that killed 10s of millions would not sit well in long-term history or our relations with other nations."

No shit, Dick Tracy!

Christ, what a moron!

Guaranteed nuclear blow back from that - want to lose New York, Chris? Where do you live? (Probably Louisiana based on your Ku Klux Klan attitude.)

Richard's first comment above brings to mind de Gaulle's best line about the Force de Frappe, which is interesting because the ratio he talks about is exactly the one India and Pakistan deal with:

"Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French."

As he said, MAD


Comments closed January 16, 2008.

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