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The Goods

13 Jan 2008 01:13 pm

McMegan points to John Henke's compendium of quotes by Paul Krugman which is supposed to illustrate Megan's earlier contention that "Paul Krugman has predicted eight of the last none recessions under the Bush administration." If this is the best Henke's got, then he really doesn't have the goods. Henke has nine quotations. Three of them are recent enough that they seem to me to be predicting the economic slowdown that is now widely believed to be underway (see, e.g., Ben Bernanke and other Republicans who obviously aren't grinding anti-Bush axes).

Krugman's May 2005 prediction that we were nearing the end of a speculative bubble in the housing market, similarly, looks really good in retrospect -- prices were about flat throughout 2006, and are now headed downward. Again, in April 2005 Krugman said "rising inflation in an economy still well short of full employment - has already arrived" and, indeed, it had; the inflation rate was rising and the employment-population ration remained quite a bit lower than it had been in the late 1990s. With five out of nine correct forecasts, this Krugman guy is looking pretty smart.

Similarly, Henke wants to mock the April 2004 observation that "An oil-driven recession does not look at all far-fetched" but it would be worth reading the actual column to see what Krugman's talking about:

Could an oil shock actually lead to 1970's-style stagflation — a combination of inflation and rising unemployment? Well, there are several comfort factors, reasons we're less vulnerable now than a generation ago. Despite the rise of the S.U.V., the U.S. consumes only about half as much oil per dollar of real G.D.P. as it did in 1973. Also, in the 1970's the economy was already primed for inflation: given the prevalence of cost-of-living adjustments in labor contracts and the experience of past inflation, oil price increases rapidly fed into a wage-price spiral. That's less likely to happen today.

Still, if there is a major supply disruption, the world will have to get by with less oil, and the only way that can happen in the short run is if there is a world economic slowdown. An oil-driven recession does not look at all far-fetched.

In context, that's a not-especially-alarmist warning that I think looks fine in retrospect. The others look a bit better for Henke. But Krugman's track record looks pretty good, even in the context of a series of quotes cherry-picked to make him look bad. I find the endless array of complaints people pretend to have with Krugman's work fascinating. Krugman is an effective and high-profile advocate for progressive politics. Lots of people want progressive politics to fail. Therefore, they don't like Krugman's columns. That's not so hard to say! But nobody seems willing to say it. Instead, you get a lot of bizarre tut-tutting as if I were to fret that Charles Krauthammer should really write more serious psychology columns or something.

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Comments (58)

And he should.

Juan Cole and Paul Krugman are the two leading academics-cum-commentators, and the vitriol against both is quite extraordinary.

You're missing the point. None of these people admitting to wanting progressive politics to fail, because that, in the end, requires admitting that they could succeed. The motivation is much more personal--it's justification for being snookered or continuing to be snookered by the economic policies of the right, as in 'Sure the last seven years has been a gigantic waste of cash, but that Krugman was pretty shrill too, and that really hurt me, etc'.

In two years, of course, it's going to be 'Sure, there are roughly a thousand lies a day about Hillary/Obama, but remember how the left thought Bush advocated torture, exposed a CIA agent, used the AG's office as a political tool, etc, it's all the same'.

That's exactly right Matt. Thanks for posting this.

It's true that Krugman looks good even in this subset, and that if you expanded it to include a more representative sample of his predictions it would look even better. Still, you have to admit that his anti-Obama rhetoric is hard to understand, given how weak the case against Obama is on its stated terms. It's certainly made me question whether I can trust Krugman on other issues.

Krugman's problems with Obama's stated policy goals are completely understandable. It's his hyperventilating supporters on the internet that call even the mildest response from Obama an "attack" that annoy me.

I think Thomas has a point though. Even people, like Andrew Sullivan, who admit that the Iraq war was a mistake justify supporting it at the time because the left was "too shrill to be convincing" or whatever.

What's amusing about these sorts of criticisms of Krugman (bracketing out whether or not their criticisms are correct) is that they are criticizing him for not being able to predict the future. That is a tall order. Lest this be taken as a potential defense of the opiniators who supported the Iraq war, my point is not that pundits should not be held accountable, but that we need to measure by some standard better than deciding whether their commentary constitued a yes or a no on a particular historical or economic or political event and then whether or not that yes or no was "right". It's a common observation, I guess, but its intensely frustrating how the public conversation about politics (and sports) puts so much weight on "correct" predictions. The fact that pre new hampshire polls didn't predict hilary's win in new hampshire doesn't mean that polls are useless. It just means that you can't rely on the them with utter certainty. And nothing is perfectly certain or predictable.

mad6798: You could get the impression that it's just a mild policy difference between Krugman and Obama if you read a few columns or a few blog posts, but that's not what's going on. See here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here (this list is probably not exhaustive).

Many of these links are to columns in which Krugman mentions Obama tangentially (and disparagingly), but in a sense this bolsters my point: why bring Obama up at all in a column about China? It's gratuitous Obama-bashing. The point is that Krugman is going far out of his way to attack Obama, much more so than could be explained by something like mandates.

I find it odd to claim that the same recession Krugman's been predicting for the last seven years is only now coming to fruition.

I have a prediction: the housing market will recover and stock prices will go up.

When this eventually happens, will its fulfillment make me a brilliant sage, far ahead of my time?

Of course not.

An open-ended prediction of recession will always come to pass. So will an open-ended prediction of recovery.

Oh, and incidentally, I can't find an instance of Krugman writing something negative about another Democratic candidate. None of this would be noteworthy if he also attacked Clinton for her union-busting connections, or Edwards for his overall ridiculousness (would the old, non-team-player Krugman have tolerated statements blaming high oil prices on "corporate greed"?). It's very strange that Krugman spends so much time and column space attacking just one of the leading candidates. Again, the literal justification for his attacks come nowhere near to justifying their frequency or their intensity.

Atrios writes, with -- for those who came in late -- his usual irony:


Shrill Shrill Shrill
I used to like Paul Krugman when he stuck to writing about economics, but now he's just so partisan.

In the Year of Our Lord 2003, for pity's sake.

It never stops, does it? It just never stops.

(A salutary lesson, BTW, for those who believe in the Unity Pony.)

As I understand, economists no longer claim that theirs is a predictive science, so there's nothing wrong with warnings about possibilities that don't actually happen, unless they are expressed as certainties. And I have also read that, of all events, the timing of the collapse of bubbles is hardest to predict. You can be almost completely sure that you're in a bubble without even having a ballpark idea of when it will burst.

I looked through McArdle's sites for references to james Glassman of "Dow 36000" -- certainly the most spectacular prediction error of the Krugman era. The only reference to him I could fine was a very favorable one, but it linked to a Tech Central Station piece that he has (probably wisely) taken down.

And why can't Paul Krugman be like that nice man Bill Kristol, who endorsed Obama and even put him on the front cover of his magazine?

What's wrong with Krugman, anyhow?

NOTE Link to Atrios irony on The Shrill One, supra, here, sorry:

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_06_01_archive.html#200377169

You could stack up every Krugman column from 1999 to the present against any random week in the wingnut-o-sphere, month on right-wing radio, or six month period of Wapo Op-Eds, and Krugman would win hands down on factual accuracy and predictive prowess.

No, jimbo, better:

Stack him up column-for-column against his own Op-Ed neighbor Friedman. He'd wipe the floor with Tommy.

Greg: You are correct, but nobody pretends to hold Tommy to any standard at all.

Matt says "Lots of people want progressive politics to fail. Therefore, they don't like Krugman's columns. That's not so hard to say! But nobody seems willing to say it."
That is because most progressive policies are popular. If the republican tools in the media had to actually argue on the merits, they would loose.

"eight of the last none"?

Matt, someone with your spelling deficiencies is not allowed to even repeat a joke like this in writing. My brain auto-corrected to "nine."

mindbender

The links you provide pertain to Obama's rhetoric on mandates, social security, and unions/527s. The are two criticism of his dealing with insurance and big pharma. These are no sly digs against Obama - the criticism is direct and specific. Krugman states he believes Obama's rhetoric is unhelpful and calls him on it. It's only bashing if you are a thin skinned prima dona.

You are guilty of exactly what you falsely accuse Krugman of. In a post about a false wingnut hit job on Krugman you pile on with anti-Krugman/pro-Obama comments.

Even within the econ-blogger community, surprise at the continued resilience of the U.S. economy isn't limited to Paul Krugman:

More surprise good news

interesting:

Krugman would have legitimate reasons to go after any of the candidates - that he has focused 100% of his firepower on Obama suggests that he's picking sides for unstated reasons. Had he wanted to, Krugman could have written nothing but anti-Kerry columns during the 2004 elections, while ignoring his much larger differences with Bush. I suppose you would have been okay with that, so long as his criticisms were direct and specific.

Moreover, your summary of Krugman attacks is selective. Let's take an example I don't think I mentioned before: the trial lawyers.

Here's what Obama said, according to the Washington Post:

In one of his standard riffs, Obama asserts that his career choices -- community organizer, civil rights lawyer, elected official -- underscores his commitment to public service and to bringing about political and social change. He always mentions the lucrative job offers he turned down, but today he added a new line.

"That's why I didn't become a trial lawyer," Obama told the Newton audience -- a clear dig at Edwards, who made millions in the courtroom.

[me again] Now, what is Krugman's problem here? I think it's uncontroversial that trial lawyers per se are not public servants (unless you use a capacious definition of "trial lawyer," which is defensible but which would not include John Edwards).

So we have an example of a bogus attack on Obama that Krugman links to. We don't see him linking to attacks on Edwards or Clinton, and yet his policy differences with both of these candidates are stark.

The best you can say about Krugman in this matter, I think, is that he thinks that bipartisanship is a fool's game, that only take-no-prisoners progressive absolutism will bring about universal healthcare etc., and that somehow Obama is the only Democratic candidate stupid enough to try to work with Republicans. I personally think this is implausible on many levels, but in any case it's ridiculous to think that this is all a simple matter of policy disagreements.

It is amazing the degree of anger at Krugman within even moderate, welfare state-friendly right-wing circles. The feeling I get is that they felt betrayed. When he was working in a non-political capacity for Reagan and when he was just a theorist whose views on, say, foreign policy were unknown, he was a universally respected figure in economics. Since he got his NYT's op-ed column and hasn't been afraid to call himself a liberal Democrat (although he was farther right in the past, which possibly accounts for some of the anger in a causal, not normative, sense), it seems to me his former fans on the right feel betrayed for having once been tricked into respecting a liberal. I've had rather neo-classical econ profs complain that he was one of the giants in economist before he became an "opinionated" columnist.

Reality Man, a shame that those who can sometimes become the ones who do...

Oh wait, it is no shame at all.

Yeah, just to be clear, Krugman is still awesome - it's just puzzling why he became so anti-Obama so quickly. It's gotten to the point where I read his columns just waiting for the Obama smear. What the hell, Krugman. What the hell.

These attacks are even weaker stuff considering Krugman himself has conceded that his earlier predictions of gloom were off. See these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XhvG_fD0HA
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-782159081457451178&q=paul+krugman&total=92&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Krugman has the right to be anti-Obama if he wants to be. Minderbender is just whining. Columnists have no obligation to be neutral about anything.

You know if Obama's campaign didn't go around saying Krugman contradicted himself nothing would have happened. But when you lie about someone they tend to get annoyed,

There are plenty of hacks on the right wing who have it out for Krugman, but it's a bit of a stretch to call Mcardle one of them.

More to the point, Krugman really has been a monotone predictor of economic doom and gloom since 2001 or so. Sometimes he's right, and sometimes he's not, but every time I've read him, he is predicting a downturn just around the corner.

I'm not a Krugmanologist, so it's likely I'm missing something, but I have yet to see a single optimistic quote from the man about the 2001 - 2008 economy. Can anyone provide me with one?

This is supposed to be Matthew's defense of Krugman? Wow. It's incredibly weak. If this is the best defense of Krugman there is, then it's pretty clear that Krugman's a complete partisan hack with no ability to predict economics at all.

Three of them are recent enough that they seem to me to be predicting the economic slowdown that is now widely believed to be underway

What??!!?!?!? All the quotes are over a year old! One of those three is a year and a half old! Predicitions of over a year ago are "predicting the economic slowdown that is now widely believed to be underway"??? That's pathetic, Matthew. No, predictions from more than a year ago aren't predicting this economic slowdown (if there is one) - and there's no evidence that we're even in a recession now.

Incredibly lame defense, Matthew.

Krugman's May 2005 prediction that we were nearing the end of a speculative bubble in the housing market, similarly, looks really good in retrospect

It was a year before the market started turning around!

Similarly, Henke wants to mock the April 2004 observation that "An oil-driven recession does not look at all far-fetched" but it would be worth reading the actual column to see what Krugman's talking about:

No, the context of the column doesn't make the quote look any better. It was an idiotic prediction which, not surprisingly, turned out to be completely wrong.

But Krugman's track record looks pretty good, even in the context of a series of quotes cherry-picked to make him look bad.

Huh? You'd have to be a complete hack to believe that the series of asinine - and wrong - predictions of Krugman's doesn't make him look bad.

Let's face it - while Krugman may have been a good economist decades ago, he has turned into the left-wing equivalent of Ann Coulter. If Matthew wan't to hackishly defend Lef-Wing Ann Coulter, he's free to, but he looks like a hack himself in doing so.

"there's no evidence that we're even in a recession now."

Once again Al believes that an assertion can turn back the tides. He imagines himself to be a Persian king.

People with an actual interest in making money disagree with you, Al.

And the assessment is that the recession will be severe, not moderate.

"Krugman's May 2005 prediction that we were nearing the end of a speculative bubble in the housing market, similarly, looks really good in retrospect

It was a year before the market started turning around!"

Al's inability to comprehend that economic predictions are not timed to the day betrays him here. If Al had a clue, he'd realized that recessions frequently are not identified until well under way - which is why at least two quarters of downward turns are required to identify a recession at all. That's six months - half a year. And frequently another half a year before the effects are clear.

By the announcement of economic results after June of this year, it will be clear that the US is in a recession. How bad a recession may not be known until end of the year.

heedless:

it's absurdly easy to find Krugman being optimistic.

John Emerson:

"Krugman has the right to be anti-Obama if he wants to be. Minderbender is just whining. Columnists have no obligation to be neutral about anything."

This is silly. No one claims that Krugman shouldn't have the right to say what he is saying. I'm saying that Krugman's rampage against Obama makes me question his judgment.

McMegan?

McMoron!

mindbender,

As I said, I'm no Krugmanologist. I would point out that in your link he's not being optimistic, he's being honest about the past. (Honest is something that only the most base of the right's base would claim Krugman is not)

If you read the rest of the quote though (after he says we dodged a bullet), Krugman does point out a few more bullets headed our way. So it hardly counts as optimistic in my reading. I was more looking for something along the lines of "Things should be looking up in the next 6 months."

Take my response with a grain of salt though, I've never been all that good at admitting when I'm wrong.

I remember sitting in on a lecture by Robert Shiller, author of Irrational Exuberance in 2002 (or maybe it was 03). Shiller (Yale econ guy of some renown) essentially predicted the housing crisis, except that he predicted it arriving in '02/'03 rather than '07.

The point is that it's trivial for an economist to determine what the top three or four first-order probability recession stories are. The trick is all about timing. It's easy to look at the economy and figure out what most likely causes of recession are, but much harder to determine if such a recession is really coming, and when it will arrive if it does.

Paul was wrong about the timing of the housing crisis, there's no shame in that- happens all the time, they give Nobel Prizes in this business because it's HARD.

The real lesson is that Krugman seems to err on the side of pessimism, and that his dire predictions should be assigned lower probability than, say, Tyler Cowen's. Wait until the optimists start heading for the hills, THEN panic. Furthermore, if one's probability-estimate of a recession drives economic policy (and it does) then we need to recognize who is erring in which direction and adjust our policy preferences accordingly.

The worrying question is 'to what extent is Krugman's gloominess driven by his political attitudes?' Given that Bush had nothing to do with the housing crisis (despite his monstrous incompetence, he's also had some of the most unbelievable BAD LUCK as president) linking your expectations of recession to his presidency is, in this case, a sign of extremely poor judgment. To what extent does this demonstrate Krugman's inability to purge bias from his thinking?

Oh, and RSH, one bit of mindless pedantry:

Knut was Scandinavian (a Viking, in fact), not Persian.

It seems to be that calling the peak of a irrational speculative bubble is extremely difficult. People are often much more stupid/gullible than you expect, so the bubble just keeps inflating and inflating.

Didn't Warren Buffett say in 1997 or something that he thought the tech stock valuations were completely crazy, with companies having no profits and low revenues being valued in the tens of billions because "the Internet changed everything."

Since the Tech Bubble kept inflating for another few years, the relative performance of Buffett's holdings weren't very good during that period.

I'd have to admit that Krugman is just as bad a predictor of bubble peak timings as Buffett.

On the other hand, all the big Wall Street CEOs were clearly much smarter. They mostly ignored the warnings, kept the companies heavily involved in the mortgage/derivatives markets, collected tens or even hundreds of millions in bonuses during the fat years, and now don't have to return any of that cash while their shareholders suffer tens of billions in losses as a direct consequence.

Score: Krugman and Buffett, 0; Wall Street CEOs, $$$.

For what it's worth, I noted Krugman's predictions to point out that he's got a tendentious approach to punditry and is spills into his view of the economy...at least, whenever there can be a partisan point to be made. Plus, (a) I'm not sure that a 5% or lower unemployment rate and roughly 3.0-3.5% inflation rate qualifies as even the mildest form of "stagflation", and (b) Krugman wasn't saying "we have a problem and it's going to manifest itself in a few years"....he was saying that a recession is around the corner. Every year. Greenspan acknowledged the potential of the subprime market to be a problem in 2005, as well, so it's had to see how "hey, we might have a recession in a few years" constitutes some keen-eyed presciences on Krugman's part.

As I alluded to in the post, I've got no objection to the suggestion that we may be headed for a recession. I've also got no objection to his suggestion that the housing market is a problem, and may be the most dominant cause of a recession. But that's hardly a clever insight, not even a couple years ago.

In any event, I've both criticized and agreed with Krugman in the past. My central objection is not that he is a progressive, but that he is often tendentious, and willing to present very misleading data or arguments in support of his positions. While there has been plenty of "bizarre tut-tutting" of Krugman in many corners, that's not been my problem.

"Wait until the optimists start heading for the hills, THEN panic."

And as everyone knows, that's WAY too late.

As soon as anyone who isn't a gold bug starts talking about a "possible" recession - you're either in one or it's starting. It takes at least six months to a year for people to start admitting that the economy is due for or in a downturn, and another six months for the government figures to prove it. By then, you're already in six to 12 months worth of recession, and then and ONLY then do the naysayers give up and admit it.

This has been the history of every recession I've seen since the 1960's.

And, yes, it was King Canute. You seen one king, you've seen them all...

Poor Norman Macrae.

The fact that some mediocre dimwit pundette like McArdle ever even worked at the once-great London Economist must have him spinning in his grave...

On second thought, I don't think he's actually dead, so hopefully he'll never find out, or the shock will finish him off!

That is certainly an unfair rehash of Krugman, but the fact is that Krugman's non-economic musings are purely partisan these days.

"but its intensely frustrating how the public conversation about politics (and sports) puts so much weight on "correct" predictions."

I wish this were true. In fact, political pundits are never held responsible for their ravings; if they were, we would have far fewer of them See Tetlock's "Expert Political Judgement: What Is IT? How Can We Know" for the gory details. It's an outstandingly well researched and well reasoned piece.

On another topic, I object to the maligning of King Canute. What actually happened was that some sycophantic hangers-on were feeding him flattery about how all-powerful he was. His famous order to the tides was actually a demonstration of a good grasp of reality.

Finally, I don't understand why anyone pays any attention to McArdle at all. While she's not an idiot, she's remorselessly tendentious. Ever since her post about the relation of the time it takes her to make macaroni and cheese to the 2nd Lancet study or death rates in Iraq I've written her off entirely.

I wish I were kidding. Her post is here:http://www.janegalt.net/archives/009686.html
The original thread was on Tim Lambert's Deltoid blog.

The only reason Matt links Megan is that she's a personal friend and also works at the Atlantic. She's a mediocre hack, exactly the sort he makes fun of when they're older pundits publishing in the major papers. As he and she get older, they will presumably be publishing in the major papers as well and settle into the same comfortable relationship that major left and right pundits have now.

And if you don't understand the difference between saying the housing market is way overpriced and calling the date it starts to collapse, then you understand nothing about economics. Krugman's an economist, he's not picking stocks or trading on a weekly basis. He's been quite correct on the general forces operating in the economy -- speculation-driven financial bubbles pumping asset prices without much real economic underpinning. But as you'd expect, he's off on the exact dates those forces manifest.

What??!!?!?!? All the quotes are over a year old! One of those three is a year and a half old! Predicitions of over a year ago are "predicting the economic slowdown that is now widely believed to be underway"??? That's pathetic, Matthew.

Al, you're becoming hysterical. For an economist to predict both the nature and the sources of an economic slowdown and get it right to within a year is a spectacular success.

MQ,

If it's his only prediction, that's true, but Krugman has been making the same prediction year in and year out for 6 years now.

That reduces his batting average somewhat.

the problem people have with krugman is not that he is a partisan, it's that he's a liar.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2007/2007-048.pdf

Gee, Anna Schwartz, Milton Friedman's greatest sycophant, thinks Krugman was being mean about dear old Miltie. Stop the presses! Of course you s believe it, pimp hand, because you are a credulous fool. Friedman and Schwartz's book is bullshit, and everyone knows it. I doubt any serious economist has read that book in twenty years.

Krugman's recession predictions are basically banal. It was clear that once the housing bubble burst that it would lead to a recession. The only question was how long before the bubble burst, and how it would take for the shock to hit the economy. Krugman has been using his perch at the NYT to warn the public something that experts on the economy all knew was coming. How terrible of him. Clearly this kind of information should be restricted to bond traders on Wall Street.

The "eight of the last none" line is particularly ridiculous. The Bush administration already had one recession on their watch, and another is probably already here. The macro news has been all bad for several weeks; the Fed has clearly switched from being sanguine to panicking.

Stagflation is also a serious possibility. The Fed didn't cut rates last time they met because inflation was starting to pick up.

Economic predictions suffer from the following problem: it is much easier to predict what people should do, as opposed to what will they do.

Recently I went for a hike and we barely made it to the top of the hill, using stones that were protruding from the ice that covered the slope. We descended using a forest road, and that operation was much more like skating than like walking. One could predict that the car traffic would be zero.

Well, a young man tried to "look around" and then his parents came, after getting chains on the wheels, to secure the vehicle that was wedged between the trees -- the accident happen at nearly zero speed so there was no visible damage.

For several years the only reason for economic expansion was that personal spending was higher than income even though it was not reasonable for the people to pile up more debt and for the banks to extend it. "Wrong prediction" in this case is something like saying that under no circumstances you should try to drive up a mountain pass on a road covered with hard ice.

...it's pretty clear that Krugman's a complete partisan hack with no ability to predict economics at all.

This coming from Al! Al has been stinking up the internet for half a decade, and made the Kevin Drm comments completely uninhabitable.

Economics isn't a predictive science. And as I've said, the worst predictor of the Krugman era is Glassman.

The Persian emperor was probably Xerxes, who whipped the sea when it misbehaved.

Canute is supposedly the Patron Saint of Denmark. He was an enemy of Saint Olaf, Patron Saint of Norway. Both were pretty tough customers, with remarkably high body counts considering their saintliness.

minderbender,

I think Krugman's criticisms are entirely rational, well stated, and justified. On the other side, you have George Will and the various Friedman acolytes lauding Obama's economic team. See, e.g., this piece.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100302003.html

I have been paying close attention to Obama's economic policy proposals and rhetoric for some time now, and I have concluded that, like many liberal Harvard Law School graduates, he occupies a right-center space when it comes to economics. He believes the New Deal was somewhat flawed, prefers tax cuts to spending increases as redistributive mechanisms, has swallowed the conservative claim that Social Security is in crisis (despite the fact that its surpluses are massive and growing and projected to cover SS obligations for at least 30 years-- projecting beyond that point is basically speculation), and has an aversion to government.

He's a Third Wayer. That's not meant to be a criticism, but I just don't see the evidence that he's not one. And Krugman's coming from a progressive economic position, so he's obviously going to have issues with Obama in a way that he wouldn't have with Edwards (clearly embracing progressive economics) and Hillary (seems open to embracing whatever seems most popular, which at the moment may be progressive economics).

Now you can take issue with Krugman for insisting on his worldview (I happen to agree with it for the most part), but I think it's pretty ignorant to criticize Krugman for pointing out that Obama is adopting a more conservative approach on domestic policy and rhetoric than the other major Democratic candidates.

he occupies a right-center space when it comes to economics

In what universe does implementing national health insurance and substantially increasing spending on Medicaire part D during record budget deficits make Obama center-right on economics?

I think you're misunderstanding the warmth shown by Will and others. It has less to do with any agreement between Will and Obama on economics and more to do with the fact that his economic policies are the least destructive of anyone in the race, excepting Thompson.

Huckabee=fair tax. Edwards=populist stagnation. Clinton=centrally planned socialism. Romney=anti-market bailouts for the self-inflicted wounds of failing industry (banks and now automotive manufacturers). Giuliani=more, expensive wars of dubious necessity. McCain=way too much silly regulation (not that all regulation is silly, just that McCain has a track record of proposing particularly silly regulation).

Obama's only obvious weakness is that he won't cut spending. But that can be said of everyone else except Thompson or Paul, neither of whom will win.

Krugman missed the last recession. Just missed it. And as soon as it was over, he acknowledged it, and started predicting the next one. What's impressive about that performance, except that not everyone's laughing at him?

Two things:

The reason Krugman's been gloomy about the economy for as long as he has is that the fundamentals have been *bad*. They've clearly not been sustainable, and you know what economists say about things that aren't. So I really don't think that a stopped clock is the right analogy - Krugman's been right because there's really been a problem that's been unnoticed by so many people because the housing bubble masked its effects.

The other thing is about Krugman and Obama and Krugman and Bush. I could be all wet about this but Paul Krugman is a big nerd, and I say that with enormous affection and as a big nerd myself. Nerds don't react to misinformation the way most people do, I think. Krugman lost it with Bush back when he was looking at Bush's first budget, caught an error, reported it, and had the White House react by sticking its fingers in its ears and doing the "lalalalalaIcan'thearyoulalalala" thing. The Obama campaign's reactions to Krugman's comments have been similar. I imagine that Krugman's expectation was that they'd say "oops" and correct the problems, but that didn't happen in either case and he had the classic nerd reaction, which I guess doesn't play all that well in public.

My central objection is not that he is a progressive, but that he is often tendentious, and willing to present very misleading data or arguments in support of his positions.

Speaking of misleading, Jon, how about taking "[R]ight now it looks as if the economy is stalling..." out of its context:

But right now it looks as if the economy is stalling, and also as if the people in charge have no idea what to do. In short, it's feeling a lot like the early 1990's.

It doesn't really matter whether you call what's going on right now a slow recovery or a recession. Most people don't care whether G.D.P. growth is slightly above or below zero; what matters to them is whether they can find jobs and keep them. And the job situation is increasingly dismal. A 5.7 percent unemployment rate doesn't sound that bad, but an unusually large number of workers have given up searching for jobs. The overall unemployment rate also doesn't reflect the rapidly growing number of people who are truly desperate, because they have been out of work for six months or more. And the employment situation has lately taken a significant turn for the worse: the number of people filing new claims for unemployment insurance, a leading indicator of future unemployment, has increased sharply over the past month.

At best, then, this is a recovery that, as far as workers are concerned, might as well be a continuing recession.

Doesn't look so much like a prediction now, does it?

It shouldn't. The primary comparison the column makes is between the state of affairs in 2002 and the 'jobless recovery' of the early 1990s.

Misleading? Yep, you're misleading.

Your second quote was an apt followup.

Your version: "We have a sluggish economy, which is, for all practical purposes, in recession..."

The original: "We have a sluggish economy, which is, for all practical purposes, in recession — whatever they say officially — ..."

IOW, the numbers may show an economy that's expanding slightly - but it's acting on ordinary people in the manner that used to mean 'recession.'

Wanker.

The Obama campaign's reactions to Krugman's comments have been similar. I imagine that Krugman's expectation was that they'd say "oops" and correct the problems,

Democrats need to get over their Krugman worship. He's a smart guy with opinions. But he's fallible and not very honest at all.

The "Krugman" Democrats are falling into the same trap that snared Ron Paul (who shares a similar worship for Austrian economists like Von Mises, Hayek and Rothbard). When you deify a figure (or figures), you start excusing their inadequacies, dishonesties and prejudices.

In Paul's (rather extreme) case, he allowed Murray Rothbard's acolyte to use the Paul brand in the rallying of racists, anti-semites and separatists (our nation's most unstable elements) to the cause of anarchy (Rothbard's goal).

To be fair, Krugman's not a semi-sane, revolution-pining anarchist like Rothbard (a benevolent Krugmanian sociologist dictatorship would probably be preferable to Rothbard's Escape From New York fantasies).

But neither is Krugman the infallible, omniscient LastWord that some on the left make him out to be.

Sure, he's fallible. But if you're going to say he's not very honest, you need to provide some evidence.

Henke is being dishonest. As I just showed, he's passing off two Krugman quotes as predictions of recessions that were clearly not intended by Krugman to mean that, and a reader without an axe to grind would have been unlikely to interpret them that way.

But if you're going to say he's not very honest, you need to provide some evidence.

There's this book review from a former Krugman colleague in 1999. You may disagree with Henderson's Supply-side economic views, but that's not why I'm linking it. Henderson does a fairly good job of explaining how Krugman misleads his audience and fudges statistics--and does so before Krugman made so many fans/enemies with his NYT columns.

But if you're going to say he's not very honest, you need to provide some evidence.

How about this Bob Kuttner essay? You can skip the complaining if you want -- although he makes some valid points -- and get to the paragraph starting with "A fine example," about three-quarters of the way in.

The part is about the Clinton health care plan in the early 90s. Basically, Krugman invented some fantasy in his head about how Washington worked, and then reported it as if it were fact.

Posted by Melinda:
"Krugman lost it with Bush back when he was looking at Bush's first budget, caught an error, reported it, and had the White House react by sticking its fingers in its ears and doing the "lalalalalaIcan'thearyoulalalala" thing. The Obama campaign's reactions to Krugman's comments have been similar. I imagine that Krugman's expectation was that they'd say "oops" and correct the problems, but that didn't happen in either case and he had the classic nerd reaction, which I guess doesn't play all that well in public."

Melinda, I guess nerds aren't good at that whole counting thing :)

Krugman caught Bush and his people in, um, 'error' time and time again. Errors which always seemed to help their position. Odd, that.

It was after repeated, um, 'errors' had made it clear that the Bush and his administration was highly dishonest that Krugman started calling them dishonest. This, of course, was years before it was politically acceptable in the elite MSM to even acknowledge this, but that makes Krugman more right.


Comments closed January 27, 2008.

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