The Old Man Factor

I think the fact that John McCain is very old and very much looks his age is probably going to be a problem for him in electoral terms. Still, there's a question in my mind of why one could raise this issue in a reasonable way. Chuck Norris seems a bit crude here:

I didn't pick John to support because I'm just afraid that the vice president would wind up taking over his job in that four-year presidency.

Naturally enough, Mike Huckabee just wound up needing to distance himself from those sentiments. The issue here is probably that Norris is too closely identified with Huckabee at this point. You want the issue raised by by people who aren't just seen as part of your campaign.

Comments

I thought this sounded far too much like a threat from Chuck. This is beneath him. I thought he was supposed to save POW's not kill them. Didn't he play a tortured POW in one of the Missing in Action movies?

Posted by laborlibert | January 21, 2008 2:35 PM

I wonder what odds you could have gotten on a prop bet in, say, January 2007, for "Major 2008 presidential candidate distances himself from comments by Chuck Norris, who is seen as part of his/her campaign."

Posted by OhioBoy | January 21, 2008 2:37 PM

Still, there's a question in my mind of why one could raise this issue in a reasonable way.

This is nutty. It's easy to raise the age issue. You just did. And I'm not sure what's so terrible about wondering if someone will be mentally compromised by age. As Reagan may have been.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | January 21, 2008 2:40 PM

.... Chuck Norris would be a really amusing Veep.

Posted by Anthony Damiani | January 21, 2008 2:42 PM

That "young guy" Chuck Norris calling McCain old is rich.

Posted by Rob | January 21, 2008 2:45 PM

A McCain-Huckabee ticket. The best of all worlds for Chuck Norris.

Posted by Jose Padilla | January 21, 2008 2:46 PM

ITALICS!!!!11!111!

Posted by Chuck | January 21, 2008 2:52 PM

I don't think this is the kind of issue that really needs to be explicitly pointed out. Did the Clintons ever actually come out and call Bob Dole old? I don't think they did, but the late night comedians and news people sure spent a lot of time talking about it.

Posted by mad6798j | January 21, 2008 2:52 PM

Matt, it's pretty simple. When you want to say something mean but don't want to be associated with it, you have a surrogate say it for you. Then you distance yourself from them. The mean stuff gets out there and you still sound like a good guy.

@somecallmetim,

I'm pretty sure he was in serious decline while in office. The dude used to talk about acting gigs that he had as if they actually happened. And there's no way he's fine throughout his entire presidency and then immediately drops out of the public eye because his Alzheimer's is so bad.

Posted by ben | January 21, 2008 2:53 PM

Does Chuck wear a beaver hide on the top of his head?

Posted by Joe | January 21, 2008 2:56 PM

Did the Clintons ever actually come out and call Bob Dole old? I don't think they did, but the late night comedians and news people sure spent a lot of time talking about it.

Yeah, and someone loosened the bolts on that railing...

Posted by Ben | January 21, 2008 2:58 PM

there's 2 bens here now.

Posted by ben | January 21, 2008 3:09 PM

I have another question. How does one tastefully bring up the point that John McCain is insane, whether it be from the debilitating effects of old age or from his personal history?

Posted by Anthony | January 21, 2008 3:15 PM

It was clear that Fred agreed to fly "wingman" for his dear old buddy McCain as the South Carolina vote approached. (The two have known each other since 1977 when McCain was the Navy Liaison to the Senate and Fred was a lobbyist working the rooms based on his relationship with his mentor Howard Baker, the Senate Minority Leader.)

Fred went after Huckabee to knock down Huck's vote while giving McCain, who besides his friend was McCains co-chair in his 2000 Presidential run.

He attacked Huckabee and Romney in the debates, then campaigned, not where McCain was strong with the Vets on the coast seeking those McCain votes, but in the Piedmont where he sought Hucks evangelicals.

McCain is an OLD, small-minded mean spirited little twit. You can be a war hero and stupid! Worse, not know he isn't the brightest bulb and have a fighter jock management style remarkably similar to GW Bush's "My way or the highway, it ain't stubborness to insist I'm right, it's my reliable gut instinct and my deep convictions".
He will NEVER beat a popular Democrat and that is why he gets a free ride by the liberal media. Think of old warhorse Bob Dole, happily pimped along by the MSM to the nomination and then given over to the Clintons for carving up.
Except worse.
Because McCain has a 20-year reputation for treachery and betrayal with fellow Republicans and of impugning their disagreements with him with slurs on their integrity and motives. Bob Dole was well liked and respected by the Republicans of every stripe. Not McCain.

The press focus of course has been on lauding McCain's comeback, conservative S Carolinians new love of Open Borders and someone who will fight against Bush's tax cuts. And demonizing Rudy as corrupt, Huckabee as a dangerous Creationist now that he threatens McCain, and Romney - somehow - given his 30 year reputation for straight-arrow Ned Flanders-type integrity - as a duplicitous man.

*****************
Meanwhile, the FIRST post-SC poll from Florida was released this morning and it has Romney leading, which is quite a surprise.

Florida has seen the media pimp and fluff up their favorites many times. It is an old game to Florida's voters who well know from the 2000 race and vote fiasco just how little the MSM depiction of Florida matches reality, and just how MUCH they will don their kneepads and fluff away for "Their man".

So "Mr. POW" and "Mr. 9/11" are looked at past bio to where they come down on matters Floridians care about.

Which should have helped Rudy and Romney the most in a "Republican-only" contest, except by going dark and not fighting in other states to reclaim his reputation, Rudy left the images of his pal Bernie Kerik's indictment, Police chauffeurs for his mistress, and obsessing about terrorism and ignoring other critical issues fester too long.

Romney seems to be benefiting from people in Florida recognizing he is a serious, decent guy who really means it when he says he wants to go to DC and work to fix America's problems, accusations of flip-flopping nonwithstanding.
What has McCain done in the 30 years he has schmoozed with his "good friends" from Teddy to Hastert to Delay to Schumer inside the Beltway? What has "wingman" Fred really done?

Another part of Florida is it's elderly population that wants to root for an old man with health problems to do the most challenging job in America, but who also know that they themselves were 'bout ready to work less hours with less energy when they hit 70 and certainly 76 which McCain would be at the end of his term - and McCain is no Reagan defying his age...The other 3/4ths of Florida knows what it is like to be stuck behind someone McCain's age in traffic.

And everyone is predicting that the media in Florida will emulate other States in endorsing "Our Great Hero and POW"...and it won't mean as much as it used to when such endorsements were more honest.

Posted by chris ford | January 21, 2008 3:16 PM

I think that McCain should respond by saying that ever since he started using the Total Gym, he feels like he's 35.

Posted by Jake | January 21, 2008 3:17 PM

There are many people in their 70s that can stand before an audience and wow you with their knowledge and nimbleness of mind on very complex subjects. Saying 71 is "very old" does a disservice to more than a few of them. It also is surprising from Matt, who I assume lays claim to a progressive, open-minded view of such distinctions as age, sex, race and religion. Maybe McCain is a confused fool but ascribing it to his birth year is dicey. If Clinton or Obama tag a 70-something for VP I'd rather not have such sentiments tossed back in my face.

Posted by steve duncan | January 21, 2008 3:18 PM

Well, Huck hasn't been exactly subtle in his campaign yet, so I don't know why he'd stop now. If Huck wants to win, he's got to get ahead of McCain, and this is an obvious point.

I've been thinking the same thing myself, especially when somebody on one of the lefty blogs wets themselves with terror over McCain vs. Hillary. For pete's sake, the man is old, he sounds old, his face is ravaged, and he has melanoma (the nasty stuff). I wish him no ill, I don't want to see anyone die, but he's certainly aware of it, since he said in New Hampshire that he was running for one term.

Posted by merciless | January 21, 2008 3:25 PM

Norris is right. He is too old. But that isn't the main reason McCain won't get the nomination. When independents are cut out of some of the upcoming primaries, McCain's numbers will drop substantially. I like McCain as a person, but he's a little too liberal for me. When he refused to support Bush's tax cuts, that's when he lost me. The only candidate that is conservative enough for me is Huckabee. When the "establishment" wakes up and realizes they were lied to about Huckabee's record, they're going to be embarrassed. How are the Limbaugh's of the world going to do an about-face and endorse Huckabee after they twisted the facts (intentionally?) to make Huckabee appear liberal and therefore unelectable?

Posted by Chris | January 21, 2008 3:26 PM

Norris is right. He is too old. But that isn't the main reason McCain won't get the nomination. When independents are cut out of some of the upcoming primaries, McCain's numbers will drop substantially. I like McCain as a person, but he's a little too liberal for me. When he refused to support Bush's tax cuts, that's when he lost me. The only candidate that is conservative enough for me is Huckabee. When the "establishment" wakes up and realizes they were lied to about Huckabee's record, they're going to be embarrassed. How are the Limbaugh's of the world going to do an about-face and endorse Huckabee after they twisted the facts (intentionally?) to make Huckabee appear liberal and therefore unelectable?

Posted by Chris | January 21, 2008 3:26 PM

Hillary is winning primaries on the strength of the elderly voter. She's an old lady. Old people like voting for one of their own if he or she seems vigorous enough on the campaign trail. Personally, I regard the prospect of him being in office for a single term because of death or illness as a problem. Second terms suck.

Posted by Rid | January 21, 2008 3:27 PM

I like McCain as a person, but he's a little too liberal for me.

A man whose voting record is essentially identical with Orrin Hatch's is 'a little too liberal'?

Who's conservative enough? Cardinal Richelieu?

Posted by Davis X. Machina | January 21, 2008 3:51 PM

Chuck Norris is 67. It's fair for him to call the 71-years-old McCain "old" (assuming he himself is not claiming to be young). Especially if McCain continues to feel the need to bring up his 95-year-old mother anytime someone raises his age. Further, with Mike Huckabee being 52, it's also fair to point out that: John McCain is old enough to be Mike Huckabee's father.

Posted by dry_fish | January 21, 2008 3:56 PM

Hillary is winning primaries on the strength of the elderly voter. She's an old lady.

At the end of a second term, Hillary would be two years younger than McCain is today.

Posted by MikeJ | January 21, 2008 3:59 PM

Chuck Norris is 67. It's fair for him to call the 71-years-old McCain "old" (assuming he himself is not claiming to be young).

Norris' age is really irrelevant here. The important point is that Norris isn't running for President. McCain is a terrible choice for president. Not only is he old, he's had cancer. Why elect someone when there's a pretty reasonable chance that they will be severely limited for various parts of their term? The presidency may very well be the most mentally taxing job in the world. We should try to find people who are a little more fit.

Posted by mpowell | January 21, 2008 4:07 PM

"At the end of a second term, Hillary would be two years younger than McCain is today."

Sure. And Obama is considerably younger than Hillary, but it's not winning him any votes from old people. The point is, the choice isn't between a younger candidate and an older candidate, but rather two old candidates. One is just a little younger than the other.

Posted by Rid | January 21, 2008 4:09 PM

What everyone is missing in the "he looks old" debate is how he actually comes across on stage and screen, which could best be described as hyper-caffeinated and pugnacious. He may look old be he comes across as having the energy level of a younger man.

Posted by Adam | January 21, 2008 4:17 PM

What everyone is missing in the "he looks old" debate is how he actually comes across on stage and screen, which could best be described as hyper-caffeinated and pugnacious. He may look old be he comes across as having the energy level of a younger man.

Posted by Adam | January 21, 2008 4:18 PM

I don't see anything wrong with what Chuck said. This is a legitimate concern many people have about McCain. It's clear from his more recent statements and positions that he's starting to lose his judgment. Before long, he'll be as bad as Bush.

Posted by Mike | January 21, 2008 4:23 PM

I believe John is mike's ticket to the presidency.
John will be elected if mike is on board as vice president.
Mike will brief John, Mike will stop for health reasons.
John will do very well as President and will be re-elected.
J.P.

Posted by J.P. | January 21, 2008 4:25 PM

Correction...
John will brief Mike, John will stop for health reason, Mike will do very well and will be re-elected.
J.P.

Posted by J.P. | January 21, 2008 4:30 PM

Can we call the whole McCain's Age debate the "No Country for Old Men" meme?

Posted by nickzi | January 21, 2008 4:34 PM

So Giuliani is Moss -- dumb, running a hare-brained scheme by the seat of his pants, dies before anyone expects him to.

Who is Anton Chigurh?

Posted by Woody Bombay | January 21, 2008 4:46 PM

"I have another question. How does one tastefully bring up the point that John McCain is insane, whether it be from the debilitating effects of old age or from his personal history?"

I am turning into an old man myself, and am sensitive to the signs of ageing. I see in McCain's crabby stubbornness signs of pre-senility.
McCain seems to me to be turning into a Stupid Old Man.

Posted by bob h | January 21, 2008 4:48 PM

Since you brought it up, I'd like to have some fun and take a stab at deconstructing the iconograpy of the John McCain public "picture."

He looks frail and in pain most of the time is what it actually is. You can be old of age yet look vigorous like Ronald Reagan and the use the age thing to your benefit in a political campaign. McCain tries to act jovial but because of the combination of his body posture and general appearance and then his temper, it's easy to imagine him switching to "cranky old man" in a New York minute. That he often makes "kids these days" kind of references, as in: "I keep up with what the kids are doing" doesn't help that at all, it looks like he's trying too hard as the world is passing him by. It's possible, but you have to be confident and vigorous to do old well.

Posted by artappraiser | January 21, 2008 5:00 PM

Steve duncan - There are many people in their 70s that can stand before an audience and wow you with their knowledge and nimbleness of mind on very complex subjects.

My Dad is 72. Sharp as a tack. But being President means being on the move 72-90 hours a week. Reagan, in better health than McCain, and more vigorous, found he couldn't handle the load and scaled back to 35-40 hours a week. Which was written as his "laid-back MGMT style". While still standing before audiences and wowing them with the nimbleness of his mind about subjects he decided the answer to 30 years before he was Prez.

My Dad still lectures. But he doesn't get up at 5 AM and retire at 9 PM with a world of shit thrown at him inbetween that he was supposed to handle. He'd be the 1st to say that when he was 60 he did have a world of shit he dealt with and handled in long days when he was Department Head and on 3-4 Committees, on a half dozen external Boards and groups, and traveling every other week.

Steve Duncan - Saying 71 is "very old" does a disservice to more than a few of them. It also is surprising from Matt, who I assume lays claim to a progressive, open-minded view of such distinctions as age, sex, race and religion.

In my state, the law says drivers over 70 are old and more prone to impairments such that the law is they get tested and have to renew every two years vs. every 4 because the risk of impairment is high. That seems sensible. More so than electing someone to do a hellaciously tough job for a fixed 4 year term while aging from 72 to 76. Or selecting someone with a serious cancer history or someone with 3 previous heart attacks to be Veep. There may be benefits to it, but don't try and sugarcoat it to voters as a matter that should be of no concern to anybody.

PC is stupid when you wish the world as it is, has to be treated as the world you wish it should be. Where someone like McCain with a serious cancer history, some incidents of what may be called "instability" have purportedly occured, and father and grandfather dying in their early 70s - would be assured 4 years of life and good health. Where women could carry 80 pound packs in 120 DEG heat a Marine Platoon and fight as well as men "with, you know...the training..".

But the world just isn't so, and age limits we hold reasonable for pilots, cops, military commanders - or the other way in age "discrimination" being under 35 as too inexperienced to be President --do have bearing on the Presidency.

Steve duncan - Maybe McCain is a confused fool but ascribing it to his birth year is dicey.

No, age is a major cause of people developing cognitive issues. Ask any mental health practitioner. So age has to be considered as a risk factor and older leaders monitored better - especially people like Reagan in his 2nd term should have, and people who were left in high office despite signs of senility (Willam Douglas, Jeffords, Strom Thurmond, Thurgood Marshall), protected by the Good Ol' Boys that had their back.

Steve duncan - If Clinton or Obama tag a 70-something for VP I'd rather not have such sentiments tossed back in my face.

They won't. Anymore than they will nominate a 70+ year-old for the Supreme Court. They need people that they have a reasonable expectation that will be around long enough to do what they are chosen to do.
The foremost expectation of a VP is that they are ready to step in and still in some vigor.

*******************
What everyone is missing in the "he looks old" debate is how he actually comes across on stage and screen, which could best be described as hyper-caffeinated and pugnacious. He may look old be he comes across as having the energy level of a younger man.
Posted by Adam

It's not when a Presidential candidate is given a light schedule, goes through makeup, and heads out on stage pumped up from his 3-hour power nap to put on a good show - that counts as far as age goes.
Its when they hit Sunday and still have many things to do starting with the PDB at 6 AM. Or on the 5th 16-18 hour day of nonstop work during the Cuban missile crisis.

Posted by chris ford | January 21, 2008 5:48 PM

Woody Bombay, for the role of Chigurh, we need someone amoral, conscienceless, coming to collect a debt, even though the debt is fundamentally dirty. Someone who reduces complex issues to the flip of a coin.. someone with robotic features.. I suppose one could argue for Mitt Romney, but don't you think that Hillary would be more convincing?

Posted by nickzi | January 21, 2008 5:51 PM

Folks, get with the 21st century! Life expectency is pushing the upper 70's for men, which means that most healthy people can expect to live well into their 80's and be physically and mentally competent. For most of us, we will probably want to work well into our 70's--do we really want people telling us we're too old? Besides, this is no average guy here. Anyone who can keep the kind of schedule John McCain does, and who has been so mentally active for so long is certainly not too old at 71 to be President.

Posted by ella | January 21, 2008 5:57 PM

"The only candidate that is conservative enough for me is Huckabee."

Boy, are you in for four years of pain.

Posted by Henderstock | January 21, 2008 5:59 PM

"The only candidate that is conservative enough for me is Huckabee."

At last, confirmation that in the USA "conservative" means "neolithic".

Posted by dubyasbuttock | January 21, 2008 6:04 PM

p.s. to my comment above:

I noticed that Bill Kristol in his NYT column today is attempting building on the McCain iconography front. He is arguing for labeling McCain of "Neo-Victorian," vs. Mitt as "the very model of a modern venture capitalist." Hilarious stuff, complete with a quote from "Invictus," as if he himself is not the very model of a Victorian in his approach to contemporary political culture. I imagine Rush Limbaugh is probably rolling his eyes.

(Sorry, no link, because I don't want to be spammed for promoting Bill Kristol by all the keyboardist NYT editors out there.)

Posted by artappraiser | January 21, 2008 6:14 PM

Davis X. Machina: my sources say that Richelieu was considered for the nomination, but discarded on the theory that the conservative base would never vote for a Frenchman.

Posted by Michael B Sullivan | January 21, 2008 6:36 PM

Let's not forget that being a POW for 5 1/2 years really fucked the guy up. Remember that pic of he and Bush hugging? He can't lift his arms above the shoulders, thus the odd, low hug he gives Bush.
http://bloggernista.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/bush-mccain-hug.jpg

I feel bad for McCain, if he had won the presidency in 2000, he and we would be living in a better world. But I'm afraid his time is passed.

Posted by beowulf | January 21, 2008 7:26 PM

There is no such thing as "death by natural causes". When Chuck Norris says you die, you die.

Posted by Xeynon | January 21, 2008 7:44 PM

There is no such thing as "death by natural causes". When Chuck Norris says you die, you die.

Posted by Xeynon | January 21, 2008 7:45 PM

I recall my moderate republican neighbors telling us how they couldn't vote for Dole in '96 because he was too old. They were 70 themselves and knew better than to expect a man of 73+ to do the job.

Posted by Matt B | January 21, 2008 10:52 PM

Demographic fact: "Chuck Norris" is the leading cause of death in 43 countries.

Posted by Chuck Norris' right fist | January 21, 2008 11:09 PM

I think Reagan may have innoculated McCain on this, at least for the primary-- that remark about "not holding his opponent's youth and inexperience against him" was one of his better lines, and I should expect the Republicans remember well.

Posted by Anthony Damiani | January 22, 2008 12:05 AM

"Chuck Norris seems a bit crude here."

And the Space Pope is reptilian.

Posted by Shoshana | January 22, 2008 1:31 AM