« How It's Done | Main | How It's Done, Part II » Time Zone Trouble15 Jan 2008 10:16 am
Tonight's Michigan primary raises an important question in the eyes of the east coast media elite -- what time zone is Michigan in? As we see above, despite its alleged Midwest status, Michigan is an eastern time zone state. Meanwhile, check out this business along the border between Idaho, Oregon, and Washington -- why doesn't the time zone line just correspond to the border? Comments (70)
The panhandle of Idaho is geographically isolated from the rest of the state by lots of wilderness. Up there, they have a lot of activity with the cities on the Washington side of the border, like Spokane. It's a pain in the ass to change time zones everytime someone in Coeur D'Alene has to run over to Spokane to do some shopping. 
Also, what's up with Arizona and Alaska? Alaska is colored like it's Central Time, which it's clearly not. And Arizona is purple and yellow-striped, which is nowhere on the key. The hell?
That is really interesting! Thanks for enlightening us, Pan. (I am really trying to thank you, not say something sarcastic. Sometimes I think anything nice comes across as sarcastic on a blog.)
Arizona doesn't have daylight savings time. Who needs it? Doesn't it make more sense to have clocks stay the same all year?
Arizona and Indiana straddle timezones, because they don't observe daylight savings time. So half the year they're in one timezone, and the other half they're in the other adjacent one. Hawaii also doesn't observe daylight savings time, but it's off in the Pacific and near the equator so it has some excuse.
Remember the TV series 'Eerie Indiana'? Based on the premise that the real reason that no one knows what time it is in Indiana is a discontinuity in the space-time continuum.
Note that part of Michigan's upper penninsula is actually in the central time zone, so perhaps Matt should issue an addendum.
despite its alleged Midwest status, Michigan
>
Today's Hoosierblogging contribution: This map is out of date. Indiana finally got it's act together last year. With the exception of a few counties near Chicago, the whole state is now on Eastern time and observes daylight savings.
"Arizona and Indiana straddle timezones" That's partially true for Indiana. Indiana varies by county both on which time zone they are in and whether they observe Dailight Savings. I learned this when I showed up for a meeting in Elkhart nearly two hours early and thought I was fifteen minutes late.
>>Note that part of Michigan's upper penninsula is actually in the central time zone, so perhaps Matt should issue an addendum. Does that mean the polls close an hour later along the Wisconsin border?
Indiana finally got it's act together last year. With the exception of a few counties near Chicago You call that getting its act together?
Pan is right. I once went to a conference that held at the University of Idaho in Moscow and Washington State a few miles away in Pullman. The second day I woke up in a panic that I was going to miss my session because my clock in Washington wasn't set to the same time zone as the session in Idaho -- I was glad to realize that that part of Idaho is on Pacific time. The map is outdated with respect to Indiana -- it went on Daylight savings in 2006. Some counties near Chicago and in the south are on Central time, the rest are on Eastern. Follow the whole saga here. I believe anger at Daylight Savings is partly credited for losing the Republicans three seats in Congress in 2006. And Ohio is definitely midwestern and on Eastern time. Frickin' East Coast elitists.
Northern Idaho (where I grew up, in that little dot marked Lewiston, which should never show up on a map of this size) is separated from southern Idaho by the largest roadless wilderness in the lower 48. Go read about the Selway-Biterroot and Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness areas some time. Also, northern Idaho once tried to secede from the south. It may happen yet!
Oops, I guess Iniana is getting more sane as LaFollette Progressive notes. Good for them.
Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care? If so I can't imagine why . . . (rea ♥ obscure rock lyrics)
Some counties in the southwest corner of Indiana are also still in the Central timezone.
Yeah, the northern Idaho situation is mirrored in El Paso and NW Indiana (well, historically). The point of the time zone line oddities is to avoid having weird things occur when people commute. P.S. Lake Coeur D'Alene in Idaho ranks up there among the most beautiful places in this country. The clearest lake you'll ever see. Highly recommended. (The town of Coeur D'Alene, on the other hand, is pretty run of the mill once you get away from the waterfront.)
Chicago (the band) is obscure now? What's this world coming to?
The U. of Michigan's fight song, "Hail to the Victors," has a line about the Wolverines being "the champions of the West." Not the MIDwest...the WEST. Now that's some old school East Coast bias at play, where anyone not within spitting distance of New York, Boston, or Philly is in "the West."
Actually, looking at the map the WA-ID-OR thing is the rule, not the exception. The only state borders that coincide with time zone borders are AL-GA and UT-NM, and AZ's borders leaving aside the daylight savings thing. (And I suppose OK-CO and OK-NM.)
Go read about the Selway-Biterroot and Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness areas some time. Much better: raft down the Salmon River (which is the border of the time zones - cutting horizontally across the middle of the state). You are rafting for three days (at least) without leaving the wilderness area. You will realize that there is no getting from there (Boise or Idaho Falls) to here (Coeur D'Alene) through Idaho - you need to go through Montana or Oregon/Washington.
You call that getting its act together? Touche! No, my benighted homeland has a lot of work to do before it can be said to have its act together. But the exception for the Northwestern counties of Indiana is perfectly reasonable, given that they are suburbs of Chicago, have always been on Central Time, and have always observed Daylight Savings along with Chicago. It was the other 80-odd counties that were trapped in a bewildering time vortex until recently.
Haggai, The Michigan fight song declaring "champions of the West" refers to the fact that the Big Ten was originally known as the Western Conference. The most western team in the Big Ten is Minnesota. I suppose these distinctions are purely cultural, as the "South" is really the southeastern portion of the US, and the "West" is really the southwest region. The only accurately named region, from a geographic standpoint is the Pacific Northwest. But I suppose we are needlessly splitting hairs.
Everyone on the East Coast seems to assume Michigan is on Central Time. Mind you, most of them don't seem to know the difference between Michigan and Minnesota, so it appears to be an artifact of thinking of the entire middle part of the country as some amorphous blob. Also, I lived in Michigan for 27 years and I don't think I ever knew, until now, that part of the Upper Peninsula is on Central Time.
If you truly standardized time zones as appropriate they would be 15 degrees longitude wide, centered (for the 48 states) around 75 degrees west, 90 degrees west, 105 degrees, and 120 degrees west. Geography and economics both drive what time zone individual areas ended up in. So while 82.5 degrees west longitude is near the eastern boundary of Ohio, Ohio and even Michigan ended up in the eastern time zone, even though they "should" be in the central zone. For those states that are fairly far to the western side of their time zones (Indiana and Arizona, for example), the advent of daylight time makes sunrise really late. The Idaho thing is really pretty common. Look at Kentucky, Tennessee, the Dakotas, Nebraska, and others, for example.
BTW, I don't know what this controversy is about. Of course Michigan is in the Midwest. Everything west of the Hudson River is in the Midwest!!! [Insert New Yorker cartoon here]
"The only accurately named region, from a geographic standpoint, is the Pacific Northwest." Unless you are in Vancouver. Then shouldn't it be the Pacific Southwest?
RSA makes a valid point, but I'm not sure how people in Ohio would feel about living in the "Mideast."
The time zone borders are drawn not by the states, but by the US Dept. of Transportation. Those counties up by Chicago are in the central time zone because the DoT says they are. The Indiana state government has nothing to do with it. Whether or not to observe DST is a local government issue, and as LaFollette Progressive points out, all of Indiana now observes it.
Hmm. I recall going to the North Woods of WI as a kid (mid-80s)and hearing the radio broadcasts from Iron Mountain, MI on Eastern Time.
Another interesting thing about Arizona that isn't displayed in this map is that, even though the state doesn't observe daylight savings time, the Navajo Nation region of the state does. Not only this, but apparently there is an Hopi Nation enclave within the Navajo Nation which does not observe daylights savings time, and then an enclave-within-an-enclave of the Navajo Nation within the Hopi one that does observe the daylights savings time! Yikes!
Steve H., I would put Canada into two main categories: North and Arctic.
You will realize that there is no getting from there (Boise or Idaho Falls) to here (Coeur D'Alene) through Idaho - you need to go through Montana or Oregon/Washington. Sorry, Al, but you're forgetting the mighty Highway 95. All two, landslide-blocked lanes of it.
Who cares about time zones? If there is even the slightest chance of confusion, times should always be listed with time zone attaced, eg: 600PM EST, etc.
I believe the reason behind Michigan's Wis-border counties being in Central is that people there tend to do more business with their neighboring Wisconsin counties than with the sparsely populated interior Upper Peninsula counties on their other side. I actually did know some of the history behind it way back when, but it's been about 15 years since my local history class.
No, in that case it would all be part of Cascadia. (In all seriousness, a country's regions shouldn't be named in relation to another country)
Apparently South Bend (St. Joseph County) is now on Eastern time, but really wants to go back to being on Central time, which it always was. When South Bend was on Central time, Niles, Michigan, which is a South Bend suburb, was on Eastern time, so that there was an hour difference in the time from one side of an ordinary residential street to another.
First of all, it is not in fact true that you can't get from Boise to Coeur D'Alene without leaving Idaho. I know because I've done it several times. It's a god-damned long drive on a highway that is often twisty and slow but it's perfectly possible. Given that you can also drive from Pocatello to Boise all inside Idaho it is therefore also possible to get from Pocatello to Coeur D'Alene all inside Idaho though it would take you a really, really long time. Other than this the account of why northern Idaho is in the Pacific time zone is fine. (It's worth noting that parts of Idaho are further west than parts of California as well.) The explanation for the bit of western Oregon in the Moutain time zone is similar- that's for Onterio Oregon, a town right on the border with Idaho that has much more contact with Idaho than with places further east in Oregon.
You're right, you're right. You can get from here to there all in Idaho. I could have sworn you go out to Oregon, but turns out not. Sorry. Never trust a New Yorker to tell you what's what about Idaho. (Except, really, raft the Salmon River. Seriously.)
Apparently South Bend (St. Joseph County) is now on Eastern time, but really wants to go back to being on Central time, which it always was. Umm, no. South Bend has been on eastern time at least as long as I've been alive, I lived there for 20 years. St. Joe county did petition the DoT to move them to central in 2006, and was denied.
I went to "that school" in South Bend and the time zone shift happened while I was an undergrad. It was terrible! Everyone was confused, and it got dark an hour earlier in the winter. When it's dark by 4 PM, something is seriously wrong. Just one more thing that Mitch Daniels screwed up!
Alaska is most definitely not Central Time, or even Pacific. We're so big, we get our own time zone! Alaska Standard Time, boo-yah! It's one hour behind Pacific. And oh, how sad it once made me that Cinemax After Dark programming therefore didn't start until about 3 in the morning...
When I was in Alaska I would get home from work at 5, and the NBA Finals game would already be in the second half. Kind of annoying.
I went to "that school" in South Bend and the time zone shift happened while I was an undergrad. It was terrible! Everyone was confused, and it got dark an hour earlier in the winter. Umm, DST isn't during winter, and the sun sets during the non-DST months at the same time it did before Daniels got DST passed (about the only thing I did agree with him on, actually). The reason why it appears to set so early is because of the sudden switch when DST ends.
Although the Alabama-Georgia border is officially the line between Central and Eastern time, the Alabama suburbs of Columbus, GA (such as Phenix City) observe Eastern time.
"Does that mean the polls close an hour later along the Wisconsin border?" Yup. But there are only 200,000 people in the entire Upper Peninsula and at most a fifth of that is along the Wisconsin border. It'd have to be pretty close for it to matter.
This thread reaffirms why people should never use EST or similar during the summer, since there are places that use EST while EDT is observed most places. The Midwest begins in the middle of Cleveland. Northeastern Ohio gravitates to Pennsylvania and New York, is in the start of the rise of elevation toward the Allegheny mountains; the eastern Cleveland suburbs are more Jewish and eastern European. West of Cleveland, the gravity pulls toward Detroit and Chicago, is more German, and much flatter.
Regarding hopeless pedant's point, in loan documents we normally say "New York City time" or "Chicago time," rather than referring to Eastern Standard Time (or Central Standard Time), which would create ambiguity whenever daylight savings time was in effect.
"The only accurately named region, from a geographic standpoint, is the Pacific Northwest." Unless you are in Vancouver. Then shouldn't it be the Pacific Southwest? Seattle/Vancouver are in the American Northwest, and the Pacific Northeast. Where is Northwestern University?
Speaking as a Nebraskan, there is no way Michigan, Ohio, or Indiana are the Midwest. The Midwest is Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri, etc. In general, anything east of the Mississippi can be referred to as "The East," but if I want to refer to Michigan or thereabouts, I just call it the Old Northwest.
At the time of its founding, Northwestern University was in the northwestern United States. Thus the name. And as for Vancouver's Pacific Northwestness, I have no problem with it for a simple reason: 80% of the Canadian population lives within 200 miles of the U.S. border. Which is to say, there isn't much north-south variation in the location of Canadians. So it's either the "Pacific West" or it's lumped in with the rest of North America and called the "Pacific Northwest." We tend to name things based on their geographic location relative to the population, not their geographic location relative to the rest of geography. Deal with it, folks.
"I want to refer to Michigan or thereabouts, I just call it the Old Northwest." As a native Michigander, that's a description I've often used, as well. To call the six states that fall in that characterization (MI, WI, MN, OH, IN, IL) the Midwest, as is often done, obscures their more urban aspects as well as (in the case of MI and WI) their progressive political history in the early part of the century, aspects generally not shared by the rest of the true Midwest (exc. Nebraska progressivism?).
jhupp, Speaking as someone Illinois born and Michigan raised, we certainly consider ourselves to be in the Midwest-- if I have to differentiate the two regions, I'll refer to Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri et cetera as the Great Plains.
OK, I stand corrected about St. Joe County I guess -- but did they used to go on daylight savings? I would have sworn I remembered a time difference between South Bend and Niles.
Ever spent a summer in Arizona? The LAST thing we want is another hour of sunshine!
Re Lukeness at 11:12 -- All of Indiana should be in the Central timezone according to the lines of longitude. I don't know what their problem is.
Having lived in IA, MO, CO, KS, MN (on the WI border), and currently living in MI, I know that the term Midwest is locally defined. People in MN consider MO the south. People in MO don't consider MN at all. Eastern KS is basically part of MO, despite their protestations. Western KS is part of the West. As is Western NE. Eastern NE, SD, and ND are more closely associated with IA and MN than the west or plains. Due to the fact that IA, MN, WI, MO, KS, NE, and IL have borders based on rivers many of the larger cities are located on those borders. This ends up having an odd effect on population distribution and self identification. IA has the Council Bluffs, Omaha region on one border and the Moline, Davenport, Rock Island, Bettendorf region on the other. MO Has Kansas City on one side and St. Louis on the other. Separately notice that part of FL is in the Central timezone. Jeb pointed this out when news organizations called FL based on ETZ polling being over.
Roac-- Yeah, I think it was DST. When I was in Saint Joseph (MI), we were on the same time as South Bend half the year, and at an hour offset for the other six months.
This ends up having an odd effect on population distribution and self identification. Tennessee's not quite as clear-cut an example of that, but Memphis is a long way from people on the TN state line in NC and GA. Crossing a time-zone line helps make that point.
What a dumb initial post from someone who has apparently lived in a Northeastern cocoon his whole life. State borders are close to meaningless in the dozens of urban and semi-urban communities which are split by border lines. Of course time zones would be adjusted on practical grounds. Did Matt think it was some random joke by a map drawer? Duh. Duh. Duh. Duh.
In the Upper Peninsula's border counties, the biggest towns--Iron Mountain, Menominee, and Ironwood--are on the Wisconsin border. It would be a pain, just as in northern Idaho, if you had to switch time zones every time you crossed the border. Speaking of UP ignorance, my sister and I both eliminated colleges from our search if they forgot to include the UP on their maps of the United States. Among the culprits weren't any "prestige" schools, as far as we could tell, but Tulane was. For shame! (As appealing as it would be, we're not Canadian.)
Funny that people in Nebraska don't consider Michigan the "midwest", as Michiganders usually don't consider Nebraskans as Midwesterners either. More like plains people. I simply refer to that region as the "hinterland" and be done with it, and the region encompassed by the Big Ten as the "Great Lakes Region".
As a native Hoosier, I've never felt that there was any reason for the portion of the state in the Eastern Time Zone to adopt DST -- it's so far west that there isn't really any D to S. I'm pleased that, last time I went home to South Bend (apparently, the Indiana city for Yglesias commenters), everyone I knew from high school, even the Operation Rescue nuts, was swearing that Mitch Daniels would pay for messing with the clocks. One thing about St. Joseph County is that LaPorte County, the next county west, is on Central time. A lot of the time, we'd have New Year's parties out of the west side of the county, so we could cross over to LaPorte and have another countdown an hour later. A small thing, but the small things add up.
I've always had an expansive definition of "The Midwest" -- Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas, plus arguably Oklahoma and the portions of Pennsylvania and New York where they say "pop" instead of "soda." If necessary, I'll break them down into "Great Lakes" and "Great Plains." The dividing line is pretty much the Mississippi, with Minnesota appropriately straddling both worlds.
I'm with cminus, I think of the states like Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, etc. as the Plains states. Basically any place besides NY and PA that gets lake-effect snow is the Upper Midwest to me. Of course, I grew up in New York State which has its own miniverse of nomenclature issues...
roac, Anthony Damiani: The history of relative times around South Bend is kind of confused (I had to look this up myself to check my memories). Beginning after the end of mandatory "War Time" following WWII: 1949-1968: South Bend CST (officially, although communities in Indiana sometimes observed CDT locally until 1966), Southwestern Michigan EDT
But there are only 200,000 people in the entire Upper Peninsula and at most a fifth of that is along the Wisconsin border. But isn't it convention to wait until all the polls are closed before releasing results? I remember that the Republicans were up in arms about the release of exit poll numbers in 2000 before everyone in Pensacola had a chance to cast a ballot.
One bit of Michigan distance I like to point out that Detroit is closer to Washington DC than it is to Ironwood in the far western Upper Peninsula. And Ironwood is closer to Fargo, North Dakota than it is to Detroit.
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Heads in the Sand
I'm betting it's some crazy county-line shit.
Posted by Christmas | January 15, 2008 10:20 AM