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Clinton's Speech

26 Feb 2008 10:02 am

I think Hillary Clinton's major foreign policy address from yesterday is pretty good. The key implicit critique of Obama:

The symbol of our presidency – the American Eagle – holds arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other. Both are symbolic tools of what we need to keep our democracy strong and our nation safe— tools that a President must know how to use in the daily course of events, but also when that 3 a.m. phone call comes to the White House because an unforeseen crisis has erupted without warning. In that split second the president has to respond and make a decision that could affect the safety and lives of millions of people here in our country and around the world. Whoever sits at that desk in the Oval Office on January 20th, 2009 needs all the tools available, all the resources at our disposal, and the wisdom to know how to use them.

This sometimes gets lost in the heat of a campaign, but I really do think Barack Obama's lack of administrative or executive experience is problematic. I don't find Hillary Clinton's claims on her own behalf in this regard nearly as convincing as she does, but it is a real problem with his candidacy. Still, as we get down to a choice of two people I do think this line of argument runs smack into the brick wall of the 2002 Iraq vote. Do I worry that Obama might screw up? Yes. Does voting for the woman who got the single most important call of her legislative career wrong seem like a reasonable alternative course of action? Not really.

This sort of hangs like a cloud over a lot of the speech's best moments:

On my first day in office, I will announce, as I have repeatedly in this campaign, that the era of cowboy diplomacy is over. That includes the doctrine of pre-emptive war. I have been against that for many years.

I like these words. I'm against the doctrine of pre-emptive war, too. But this is the woman who, when casting a vote to authorize a preemptive (really preventive) military invasion of Iraq said "my vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for unilateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose." Under the circumstances, it's hard to know what her opposition is supposed to amount to. It -- especially in combination with a refusal to deal with the issue directly and clearly -- leaves me confused, not understanding who I'm supposed to be voting for.

But all that is, at it were, external to the text at hand. What's on the page here is very good, including a very thoughtful take on the diplomacy with adversaries issue and a strong statement about the need to avoid the many false choices with which the Bush administration has sought to present people.

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Comments (66)

um....some computer thingy got screwed up. oh, and when to we get a post about Omar??

Will you please clean up this post so we can tell which are your words and which are somebody else's--and whose?

Also, just in general, learn to spell.

In NH, didn't she say something to the effect that she would practice "cowgirl diplomacy"? In retrospect, that seems to fit the AUMF vote pretty well.

I'm personally rather turned off by Obama's religiosity, and you make a good point about his lack of executive experience.

But you're right - what it boils down to for me is Iraq and the fact that she voted for it, while Obama was opposed and has given me every reason to think he would've voted against it had he been in office at the time.

This is a post worth sharing with my friends, many of them on the conservative side but who are turned off by Bush and see McCain as his torchbearer. If only you'd fix the last quote block, then it'd be a picture-perfect post.

Matt's bit starts with "I like these words.".

bobN -- I don't think Matt 'spells' so much as talks into the dictation software.

You think Obama's lack of executive experience is problematic? She has the exact same lack of executive experience PLUS (as you note) lack of judgment and incoherent explanations of her choices. Plus her central premise that being President entails making split second decisions at 3am is ludicrous. The President needs to take the time to get accurate intel on any new situation that arises and seek a variety of opinions on options. Making split second gut decisions is what we have had for the last 7 years and we don't need any more of it.

but also when that 3 a.m. phone call comes to the White House because an unforeseen crisis has erupted without warning. In that split second the president has to respond and make a decision that could affect the safety and lives of millions of people here in our country and around the world.

After watching Senator Clinton over the past few days, I'm certain that I don't want her on the receiving end of that 3 a.m. phone call.

For me, it transcends the question of experience. On a really profound level, I trust Obama's judgment, temperament, and intelligence -- and I just don't trust hers.

"Do I worry that Obama might screw up? Yes. Does voting for the woman who got the single most important call of her legislative career wrong seem like a reasonable alternative course of action? Not really."

Yes. This encapulates well what many of us feel. Not only did Clinton go wrong on the 2002 vote, but as I recall she was fairly pro war through 2005, when she appeared in Baghdad with Lieberman extolling war progress. Suddenly, in 2006 with the Democratic winds blowing heavily against the war, she found her antiwar rhetoric. For experience, Obama isn't the candidate of choice. But Clinton's experience is a very mixed bag.

Plus her central premise that being President entails making split second decisions at 3am is ludicrous. The President needs to take the time to get accurate intel on any new situation that arises and seek a variety of opinions on options. Making split second gut decisions is what we have had for the last 7 years and we don't need any more of it.


Ron,

Don't you think you're being rather flippant? After all she was the first lady who would have a first hand look at the presidency.

Plus her central premise that being President entails making split second decisions at 3am is ludicrous. The President needs to take the time to get accurate intel on any new situation that arises and seek a variety of opinions on options. Making split second gut decisions is what we have had for the last 7 years and we don't need any more of it.


Ron,

Don't you think you're being rather flippant? After all she was the first lady who would have a first hand look at the presidency.

I think before we get bogged down in obsessing over whether one candidate or the other has the wisdom of the ages, we step back and remember that whichever one we get will be a massive step up from what we have now, namely an administration that always picks the worst possible option and then bumgles it in execution.

WRT the AUMF, I think if Hillary Clinton's presidential ambitions end up foundering on her vote for the thing, this may serve to concentrate the minds of politicians in the future facing similar votes (particularly in the Senate, where the average Senator sees a U.S. President looking back from the mirror every morning). When they vote to start a war they ought to realize they are putting their careers on the line.

She's also run a pretty crappy campaign by comparison, all things considered. If she can't fend off the destructive suggestions of sycophants like Penn now, then why should we expect better when she gets that phone call at 3:00 a.m.?

Is experience really going to matter that much to voters in the general election? It's obviously going to matter to the media, who didn't give a damn about experience when it came to Bill Clinton or George W. Bush, but will voters really look at Obama and think "I don't trust that guy with his finger on the button"?

Mike

That includes the doctrine of pre-emptive war. I have been against that for many years. I like these words. I'm against the doctrine of pre-emptive war, too.

I, for one, am offended by Hillary Clinton's pathetic attempt to to win the sympathy of voters in Texas and Ohio by feigning schizophrenia.

You may want to fix those quotes, Matt. Considering how unhinged HRC has been sounding lately, I read it and shook my head in sadness at this lioness of a woman reduced to bizarre self-reference, criticism and reactionary furor.

It was only later that I realized you had messed up your quotes.

Ce La.

Was the Iraq invasion really the product of a doctrine of preemptive war? I tend to think it was really just the result of a decade-long desire to invade Iraq, and little more.

What is "adminstrative experience?" And who cares about this mythical "executive" experience. I think many commentators make much ado about executive experience. What person is truly prepared to assume the responsibilities of the Presidency on day one? Besides being a military leader or VP, what other executive experience prepares one for the POTUS? The greatest President of the 19th century similarly lacked "administrative or executive experience" that Matt finds problematic in Obama, and HRC. I think what is more important in judging an presidential candidate determining if they have common sense and the ability to make good executive decisions, something HRC has shown little of with her vote for the AUMF and the Kyl-Lieberman resolution, and how she has managed her campaign.

The difference is that when it comes to appropriate U.S. foreign policy, Obama "gets it" and Clinton does not. This is evidenced by their positions on Cuba, among other things, in addition to the contrasts on Iraq.

It's not the fact that he opposed the war that appeals to me. He's not Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich; I wouldn't be voting for someone who supported American isolationism or a universal anti-war stance. But you can see in his rationale for opposing the war someone with a deep understanding of the dynamics of that region, the likely consequences of our actions, and geo-political and cultural reality that Clinton simply doesn't possess.

She would run into the same problems against McCain that John Kerry had on Iraq. It becomes a pedantic argument about whether we compound our problems in Iraq more by staying or by leaving. This is almost as bad as the half-pregnant position of many Democrats in 2004 that the errors of the Bush administration in Iraq were tactical, not strategic, in an effort to defend their votes in support of the war. We didn't cast the wrong vote, they said, the Administration just bungled the execution. Right.

Obama is the only one who can not only make the right argument here, but actually believes it. Going into Iraq wasn't a tactical error, it was a strategic error. The very notion that the United States can promote democracy through military action is flawed. The military is the appropriate tool to defend our country and our allies against military aggression. Movements toward democracy in autocratic nations around the world will arise from an internal impetus, hopefully supported by American policy and support, as the first step toward peace is always to ensure the economic security of the populace. This is why the Marshall Plan worked, and this is why the IRA is no longer setting off bombs in London - it wasn't a surge of Royal Marines in Belfast, it was an economic boom in Ireland that created peace.

I keep going back to this quote from Obama, looking back on the decision to go to war in Iraq. In it I see a rationality and maturity that no amount of years in Washington can give to somebody who just doesn't have it in them (John McCain being perfect evidence of this):

“There was a dangerous innocence to thinking that we would be greeted as liberators, or that with a little bit of economic assistance and democratic training you’d have a Jeffersonian democracy blooming in the desert. There is a running thread in American history of idealism that can express itself powerfully and appropriately, as it did after World War II with the creation of the United Nations and the Marshall Plan, when we recognized that our security and prosperity depend on the security and prosperity of others. But the same idealism can express itself in a sense that we can remake the world any way we want by flipping a switch, because we’re technologically superior or we’re wealthier or we’re morally superior. And when our idealism spills into that kind of naïveté and an unwillingness to acknowledge history and the weight of other cultures, then we get ourselves into trouble, as we did in Vietnam.”

but also when that 3 a.m. phone call comes to the White House because an unforeseen crisis has erupted without warning. In that split second the president has to respond and make a decision that could affect the safety and lives of millions of people here in our country and around the world.

So now Clinton has adopted the "ticking time bomb" rhetoric. Great. She's so diplomatic that she's told most of the nation their votes don't matter, and she's so experienced that her campaign is a shambling mound of upfuck.

I'm glad she's only New York's problem.
.

So, reality bites: none of the 3 main candidates for president have any administrative experience. All are senators. Their mutual accusations could look like an M.C. Escher print.

The key things I look for in a executive are good judgment, even temperament, intelligence, thoughtfulness, and a strong moral center. Obama has all of these in spades. Clinton is extremely intelligent, and she's clearly a thinker, but I have serious doubts about her judgment and temperament. Her antics last weekend did nothing to reassure me on this account. And insofar as her Iraq vote might have been motivated partly by political expediency, I have concerns about the strength of her moral center.

None of the remaining viable candidates has strong executive experience, so we must look elsewhere for clues about how they will lead. I do think that the way they've run their campaigns is highly relevant. Obama has not been perfect, but he has been steady and consistent. His campaign has run like a smoothly oiled machine. When I compare this to the drama and disarray in the Clinton campaign, there is little doubt in my mind about who will be the better executive.

For Hillary to claim she has the "wisdom" and "judgement" to be a good commander in chief is ridiculous.

I think it's high time we voted in the candidate with the most brain power, and it seems obvious that Obama trumps both Clinton and McCain in that regard. He just manifestly possesses a more subtle mind, not to mention a greater sense of integrity, than either of those two. That's experience I can trust, frankly.

I'm not sure what Hillary's experience is. Bill's wife? Failed developer of health care proposal? Arkansas lawyer? Senator from New York? Voter for authorization of wars in Iraq and Iran? Where's the ticket here?


My wife is for Hillary, mainly because she's concerned about Obama in two ways: 1) he'll screw up something or 2) the Republicans will eat him alive, before or after the election. For some reason these do not seriously affect me, but I don't know why not.

The "he lacks executive experience" applied to Obama, or any Senator for that matter, is LAME.

Many folks have pointed to the dispositive case of one Dick Cheney (who, while not actually having been elected president, certainly has tried to pull the strings and has a wealth White House experience going back to the Ford administration). And allow me to slap on a bow tie as I refer you to the case of James Buchanan and Abe Lincoln.

Yes, Senators are primarily known for being legislators (or taking legal bribes from special intersts, take your pick). But they also have large staffs. They delegate tasks. They meet with many important (and self-important) people. They make some tough decisions. Some few even act like leaders at times. In short, they are executives.

That includes the doctrine of pre-emptive war. I have been against that for many years.

I can't tell you how relieved I am to hear this from her. WTF took her so long?

In addition to her botched Iraq vote, Hillary has botched the biggest management job she's ever had - her own campaign. Meanwhile Obama has run what is widely praised as one of the most effective primary campaigns ever. And we're concerned about his executive experience?

Seriously folks, the alternatives are Hillary Clinton and John McCain. And we're worried about what Obama would do as president? Seriously?

I'm an Obama supporter, but I think Matt is overstating the strength of this argument. Clinton voted for the war, and that's an enormous blot on her record, but a critical fact being omitted is that Obama did not vote against the war. Obama did say he opposed the war at the time, which is a good sign. But when the Iraq war was authorized in October 2002, Obama was a state senator representing Hyde Park. Nobody was thinking about the possibility that he could make a serious bid for the Presidency, much less that he would be the front-runner just five and a half years later.

Thirteen months after 9/11, Americans were still afraid of terrorism, Bush was at the height of his power, and Congressional Democrats were running scared of being labeled soft on terror. As a political nobody, Obama was completely insulated from those political forces. There's simply no way to tell whether Obama would have stood his ground if he'd been in the Senate at the time, or if he would have given in to pressure the way 68% of Senate Democrats did.

Obama still comes out ahead on this one, but not as much as Matt is saying.

This all looks like show business to me. Phone calls at 3 a.m.? Please. Bush got the call on 9/11 and continued to hang with the first-graders, then flew off to hunker down in an Air Force bunker for the next several hours. I don't want ANYONE waking up making split-second decisions of grave importance. I'm with Ron on that.

Steve V. is also correct to point out that the ideas of "pre-emption" or "prevention" are entirely irrelevant to Iraq. The decision to go to war in Iraq was made in 1990. Everything since has been attempts of varying degrees of seriousness to bring it to a reasonable conclusion.

Like about three-fourths of the entire US Government, Clinton made the RIGHT decision in 2002. Bush has done everything humanly possible to make it turn out wrong, but we'd still be worse off with Saddam Hussein ruling Iraq today. Nevertheless, in general, Obama seems head-and-shoulders better than anyone in the race in terms of his thought processes.

The ugly truth is that NONE of what we know about ANY of these people is a particularly good predictor for what they'll do in a given crisis situation. The one thing we know for sure is that we will be confronted with at least one from some unexpected corner. This is largely a crap-shoot, but from what we've seen so far there's only one likely winner.

I agree with Jimbob on the AUMF vote.

There has been a very poisonous attitude prevalent among Democratic Party leaders that it is better to be wrong but "serious" (= pro-war) than right but "unserious". That we as a party didn't set the record straight in 2004 was I think the real tragedy of the implosion of Howard Dean's candidacy.

No one but her knows what was in Hillary Clinton's heart when she cast that vote, and rejected the Levin Amendment, but it is widely speculated that she was afflicted with this attitude (as may have been John Kerry and John Edwards). It will send a very healthy message if this "seriousness" ultimately costs her the presidency.

I agree with Jimbob on the AUMF vote.

There has been a very poisonous attitude prevalent among Democratic Party leaders that it is better to be wrong but "serious" (= pro-war) than right but "unserious". That we as a party didn't set the record straight in 2004 was I think the real tragedy of the implosion of Howard Dean's candidacy.

No one but her knows what was in Hillary Clinton's heart when she cast that vote, and rejected the Levin Amendment, but it is widely speculated that she was afflicted with this attitude (as may have been John Kerry and John Edwards). It will send a very healthy message if this "seriousness" ultimately costs her the presidency.

Elliot, I've summarized my thoughts on this already in this thread so I'll just add something briefly here.

This whole "Obama didn't cast a vote" argument is pretty weak. Given numerous speeches, interviews, public comments, writings, etc at the time, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind as to which way he would have voted if he'd been a U.S. Senator.

More importantly, the idea that he wasn't risking his reputation because he was representing Hyde Park is dishonest as well. Barack Obama clearly held aspirations beyond the Illinois state senate (he'd already tried running for U.S. Congress in 2000); he clearly knew that his position on the war would be part of his "permanent record" as a politician; and he was already laying the groundwork for a U.S. Senate campaign at the time he was speaking out against the likely war.

Add to that the argument I've already made, that it isn't his opposition to this one military action, but what his stated rationale indicates with regard to how he would approach future situations, and he has a much, much stronger case as commander-in-chief than Hillary Clinton.

The important thing about the "3 a.m. call" is not to freak out. The look on Bush's face when he addressed the nation from an airbase in Louisiana (or was it Nebraska?) on September 11, 2001, told you everything you'd need to know about the next six years. He was totally freaked out, and remained so for years.

The evidence is that many people in Congress--including Senator Clinton--were scared shitless by 9/11 and the subsequent anthrax attacks and were thus easily buffaloed into supporting the Iraq war, or any other. On that score, perhaps, they weren't any worse than a large fraction of the general public, but we ought to be drawing our leaders from the best, not the average.

Obama seems to be a much cooler customer, clearheaded and prone to think things through instead of jumping, startled, to a conclusion. That's the trait we need in a leader.

(I don't know that John McCain was scared by the attacks of September 11. For years, his default response to any situation seems to be war, war and more war, so it's hard to see whether 9/11 changed him.)

It's not just Iraq. It's Kosovo; it's Lebanon; it's Pakistan; and it's Iran. And it is not just one bad call, but a pattern of bad calls, reckless rhetorical provocations, misguided policy suggestions and transparent hypocrisy and pandering. Clinton is so much a captive of the moldy conventional wisdom of powerful interests, so insecure about how she is perceived and her need to project toughness, and so determined to prove to people that she has lots and lots of arrows in her quiver, that she really cannot be trusted to protect the security of our children.

Let's recall that the president is the person who literally has his or her finger on the nuclear button. Is the mercurial, temperamental personality we have seen the last few days - whose campaign has been marked by fits and starts, ups and downs, inconsistent messaging and staff infighting, the kind of person we want handling that responsibility?

We need a confident, intelligent and even-keeled person who knows who he is, isn't ashamed of who he is, isn't insecure about who he is, and doesn't feel a constant need to prove himself. Obama looks to me like the kind of person who has the balance of mind and self-assuredness in which reason prevails much more often than not, and who can be counted on to exercise calm judgment, using tough measures when the situation calls for it, and gentler means when the situation calls for them.

As for Clinton's speech, I didn't read it because when she yelled "enough with the speeches" the other day, she finally persuaded me that speeches don't matter.

I fail to see how that comment from Hillary gives her an advantage, if anything it plays into Obama's strength of judgement.

You know, for a guy with no executive or administrative experience, Obama's campaign has been run like a finely tuned instrument, humiliating the Clinton political machine.

Obama was a grassroots organizer. I think people vastly underestimate the administrative skills required to be effective in that capacity.

As for Clinton's speech, I didn't read it because when she yelled "enough with the speeches" the other day, she finally persuaded me that speeches don't matter.

LOL! Seriously though, Dan, excellent post.

The horrible thing about Obama's candidacy -his lack of readiness for day one or day two or the transition before day one- is that while his supporters are willing to roll the dice for themselves they are also rolling the dice for their neighbors and all of us.
He'd make a really great VP.

The horrible thing about Obama's candidacy -his lack of readiness for day one or day two or the transition before day one-

Where do you get that idea?

The horrible thing about Obama's candidacy -his lack of readiness for day one or day two or the transition before day one- is that while his supporters are willing to roll the dice for themselves they are also rolling the dice for their neighbors and all of us.
He'd make a really great VP.

Michael C. -- Faux Hillary supporter, GOoPer troll, or not-too-bright actual Hillary supporter?

Seriously, are there actual Hillary supporters out there that put much stock in the Hillary is experienced and Obama is not argument? Really, even though Hillary only has two more years of Senate experience and less total legislative experience? Or was it her bang-up (or busted up) job at leading health care reform that has Hillary supporter's convinced she's got what it takes? Sure, she's got many years of political campaign experience, but Obama can easily counter that with his years as a community organizer.

In my mind, the "experience" issue is almost as stupid as the Obama is a closet muslim innuendo.

... while his supporters are willing to roll the dice for themselves they are also rolling the dice for their neighbors and all of us.

Umm ... any vote for a non-incumbent presidential candidate is partly a role of the dice. It's no different for Clinton. We look at the candidate's character and record, and we takes our chances.

Folks here have made cogent arguments about why they believe Obama would be a better executive. It's insulting to imply that Obama supporters must be making a random, uninformed decision (and what's worse, enforcing it on all those highly informed Clinton voters!).

You know, for a guy with no executive or administrative experience, Obama's campaign has been run like a finely tuned instrument, humiliating the Clinton political machine.

I'd like to second this point. So far, the evidence of a campaign run under pressure suggests that Obama is either (1) a pretty decent administrator, or (2) pretty good at delegating responsibility to people who can handle it.

I think it's a little strange that people are looking so intently at the past when some equally good evidence for a critique of readiness and management abilities might be staring us in the face.

Wait, Marc Ambinder thinks a Clinton speech is "pretty good"? Stop the presses!

Still, you could have called it great. That's some fantastic unbiased journalism.

Seriously, I'd like to know what in the McCain or Clinton resumés make them so leadership-ready.

Could someone please name one organization that Hillary Clinton has led? Has she ever been in a position where her performance as executive has a) been on the public record, and b) been such that she could have been fired or removed from office? And how successful was her leadership?

Same goes for McCain. He wasn't a squadron commander in Nam, was he? I don't think he was the ranking office in his prison camp. According to Wikipedia, he led a stateside training squadron for a year or two in the mid-1970s, but that's it. Senate liaison wasn't leadership, and the rest of his career has been in Congress. That's the CV of someone running on his leadership?

Me, I'd take Obama's experience over McCain's and Clinton's. Whatever success he's had in life, he made on his own, while McCain and Clinton have been helped again and again by the association with their powerful father/husband.

Here is what I fail to understand about Clinton's speech. On the one hand, she bashes Obama for "wavering," suggesting that his commitment to presidential-level diplomacy is inconsistent with his willingness to act directly against Osama if he had actionable intelligence. On the other hand, she lauds her own approach as combining the arrow and the olive branch. So its cowardly uncertainty if Obama suggests a mixture of foreign policy approaches depending on varying contexts, but its sagacity if Clinton suggests the same thing?

Pretty good speech if you set the hypocrisy aside. When Obama says he'll put forth the olive branch by meeting with other world leaders, she rips him for it. When he says, correctly, that he would take out high-value targets in Pakistan without the permission of the Pakistani government, she rips him for that. It's not that they disagree. It's just that when he says it, it's wrong and when she says it, it's good policy.

Hillary is losing and she's going to lose. And her overly hawkish, dishonest, old-school approach to foreign policy is one reason why.

Clinton's total executive inability fully and publicly demonstrates itself in her campaign. Likewise, Obama's brilliant executive capability. Now, it may be not so much the candidates as the people around them on some of this. But that is a core part of what executive ability is.

Beyond that, good executives can be old, but brilliant executives almost invariably are young - not just in high tech, but especially there, where the future is closest to reality. Similarly, as the next president we need one who can negotiate perpetually on the cusp of the future.

Bill was a good-enough president for the '90s precisely because he was young enough - and had a solid futurist as Vice President. Hillary's not young enough, not now, to have the capability we need.

In other news, Senator Dodd endorses Obama. Just another inexperienced, impressionable, deluded guy making a roll of the dice.

We have in the past had many presidents with both a ton of "experience" and some with very little
"experience" and with decidedly mixed results so not so sure this concern is really one to be so concerned about. More to the point is how do the candidates show in their actions and words (both past and present) how they would lead. We did have a one term congressional president who did pretty well for himself...Abraham Lincoln!

First, what experience does Hilary have making split second decisions that effect the lives of millions of people. None. Second, the decisions don't literally need to be made in seconds. Did JFK develop his response to the Cuban Missle crisis in seconds? If it all comes down to who has the most experience making split second decisions involving life and death, McCain has the edge, becasue having been in combat he's actually had to do that. Third, while experience is important, vision, tempermant, and judgment are even more important. All the accusations about Obama being naive in being willing to negotiate with Cuba and Iran without pre-conditions is predicated on the very inside the Beltway notion that you it is never wrong to be for the most aggressive and belligerent option in any situation because it shows you are tough. In fact, all this toughness has made this nation less safe and more alienated from the rest of the world. Hilary can push the latest new line of attack if she wants to -- it won't get her anywhere. When it comes to foreign policy, she lacks vision -- nothing but clever triangulation from her and always wanting to appear strong, judgment, witness her non-sense on Iraq, and temperment, witness the vein bulging anger in recent day over Obama's rallies being so large.

Looks like Matt wants a Dem that has Jack Bauer on their speed dail....

Has anyone (prior to this campaign) EVER listed "First Lady" as one of the recommended prerequisites for running for President?

Clinton's total executive inability fully and publicly demonstrates itself in her campaign. Likewise, Obama's brilliant executive capability. Now, it may be not so much the candidates as the people around them on some of this. But that is a core part of what executive ability is.

Yeah, and your prime example of this truism is ... George W. Bush. Oh wait, ... his brilliant campaign organization and utter failure as a manager of the White House and Cabinet actually disproves your claim. My bad.

Thanks.

mp

I think the scenario that you described of the phone ringing at 3 am and millions of lives hanging in the balance is a cliche and an easy escape hatch to realpolitik. I don't mean that the phone won't ring at 3 am with a very serious issue(it most certainly will). But I don't think anyone will be uniquely effective in that scenario. If you are forced to make a big decision and you are caught by surprise you will get some right and you will get some wrong. And the same definitions of right and wrong will still prevail (was it right tactically, was it wrong long-term?). So in the end, this whole scenario just lets you see the strengths or weaknesses that you already see in the candidates. Republicans will like McCain because he's a war-hero and we think of military men as being able to make good decisions in moments of stress. In the case of McCain, I think he would make bad decisions in a pinch because I think he trends to a kind of over-literalism that fails to see the downstream impacts of a decision (like invading Iraq being a good thing to do).

But the point being that no one, especially a political figurehead such as the president, is going to be uniquely better or worse at this task. As proof, we have obviously had a lot of scary 3 a.m. calls in the past 7 years presumably answered by a man with "limited" critical thinking chops, and yet we 200 million Americans have not spontaneously combusted. Do with think that Obama is going to panic and push the self-destruct button? What specifically is the panic situation that would disconnect the president from all the other important presidential decisions they face? I think this is where the argument starts sounding ridiculously alarmist. So yes, Obama is young, but I fail to see how that makes him any better or worse when confronting some undefined doomsday scenario.

It has been 24 years since the last woman attempted to reach the national executive branch. If HRC fails, it will be at least another 24 years before another attempt is made.

What woman, Democrat or Republican, is going to want to put herself through the firehosing of misogynist spew cannonading from both sides of the aisle in this election?

I'll be gibbering in a wheelchair before I ever get to vote for the first woman president. And, more likely taking a dirt nap before one ever even gets on the ballot.

Point of pride for America, alright.

Thanks.

mp

In NH Hillary said she believes in "coercive diplomacy". Somebody should tell her that Putin, the Saudis, the Red Chinese, Chavez, and the Iranian mullahs do too and after what Bush has done to cripple our hard and soft power we are much more likely to be on the receiving end of coercion than we are to be doling it out. Our "big stick", the army is worn down to the nub in Iraq and our dependence on foreign oil and $9 trillion dollar debt may not have us at the mercy of strangers but damn close. The last thing we need is a president who apparently thinks it's still 1992.

Michael, I think that you'll find that's not true. Women are making more inroads in politics and I expect that to continue. I'd be happy to vote for a woman if she were the most qualified candidate available. I'd have voted for Hillary over any of the GOoPers, but Obama's clearly the better candidate regardless of chromosomes or pigmentation.

I'll be gibbering in a wheelchair before I ever get to vote for the first woman president.
Your post suggests to me that you may already be at the gibbering stage.

What if the woman was Kay Baily Hutchison? Would you still take pride in her becoming president? And what of the value of the first black president? Is sexism a worse problem than racism?

Finally, I put it to you that the animosity, antipathy, or just plain old lack of enthusiasm for Hillary has more to do with her association with Bill, her unappealing public persona, and her DLC-brand of incrementalist, 1990s-style politics.

"Being the President is, like, hard!"

It occurs to me that when the phone rings at 3am, it may matter even more who's on the other end of the line. Do we really want folks like Mark Penn dispensing advice at that point?

So Clinton notes that the American Eagle has arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other. Pity she hasn't noticed that the eagles head is facing, deliberately and by design facing, towards the olive branch. Our founders had a reason for that, whether she knows it or not.

But I guess that would undermine her critique that Obama is willing to talk to other nations without preconditions. That would be, like, diplomacy, and way too olive-branch. Right?

This sometimes gets lost in the heat of a campaign, but I really do think Barack Obama's lack of administrative or executive experience is problematic. I don't find Hillary Clinton's claims on her own behalf in this regard nearly as convincing as she does, but it is a real problem with his candidacy. Still, as we get down to a choice of two people I do think this line of argument runs smack into the brick wall of the 2002 Iraq vote. Do I worry that Obama might screw up? Yes. Does voting for the woman who got the single most important call of her legislative career wrong seem like a reasonable alternative course of action? Not really.

I just wanted to say that you are not alone; I agree 100% with that graph.

Will someone please explain to me why direct negotiations with Iran and Cuba are "naive?" I've heard this contention many times, but I have never -- not once -- heard a convincing argument for it. It's either just stated as a self-evident axiom, or the proponent of this thesis suggests that Obama will have the wool pulled over his eyes by the Iranians and Cubans. But this latter argument simply assumes what it's trying to prove, namely that Obama is naive. What is inherently naive about talking to our enemies?

Nothing was said here by Clinton that is significant.

We need SPECIFIC policy approaches to SPECIFIC issues like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and especially what the actual specific goals are for US foreign policy. We need some indication that these people understand the limitations of the US military in the current world environment.

None of this crap about "olive branches" or 3 AM phone calls which doesn't mean shit.

You deal with 3 AM phone calls by having a coherent rational approach to such things. Neither she nor Obama (let alone that nitwit McCain) has expressed any such.

We can already see that Obama and Clinton will screw up - because they have it WRONG on Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, based on the policy statements they've made on those issues. Worse, their basic approach to such issues is wrong, based as it is on US unilateralism and a willingness to get involved in unnecessary foreign issues without comprehending the inability of the US military to do anything positive vis-a-vis those issues.

We also hear nothing about the "military-industrial complex" or "war profiteering" or "dependence on foreign oil"
from either of them - and those are the central issues for US foreign policy.


Comments closed March 11, 2008.

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