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Conference Calling on McCain

20 Feb 2008 11:29 am

Just got off a conference call with Susan Rice talking about the contrasts between her boy Barack Obama and John McCain on national security policy. One key point of emphasis was the strange notion coming from the McCain campaign that talking about focused counterterrorism operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan is irresponsible, whereas randomly threatening to start new wars is the height of good sense. As she put it "it's a strange contrast -- he says that somehow it's naive for a presidential candidate to outline how he would deal with that crucial national security challenge, but it's appropriate for him to joke about starting another war." A reporter from the Washington Times challenged her on the "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" business saying McCain was joking. Rice responds that "if he wants to say that he was joking and that's the kind of joke he thinks is funny, that's his perogative."

I see McCain as basically losing on this round. It's bizarre of his campaign to be trotting out talking points that didn't work for Hillary Clinton, and already before the Obama campaign's official counterspin got underway we have Spencer Ackerman kicking McCain's ass and, indeed, Joe Klein calling McCain soft on al-Qaeda in the MSM.

More broadly, on experience there's a three-pronged attack. First, Obama does have experience, with Rice citing the fact that he authored "crucial legislation to secure the United States from the threat of loose nuclear materials" and serves on committees and subcommittees dealing with foreign relations, veterans affairs, and homeland security. Second, this means that Obama has actually "acquired more traditional washington foreign policy experience" than most presidents including Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy Carter (Carter in fact served on a nuclear sub and I'm told this gave him a better understanding of nuclear issues than presidents before or after).

Third, there's more to life than being a prisoner of DC conventional wisdom -- "McCain, like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney may have years of Washington experience" but they've all made "flawed judgments and as a consequence we're less safe." In a crucial point, Rice observed (emphasis added) that a McCain administration would be "very much a continuation and intensification of the failed Bush policy, remaining in Iraq indefinitely not investing adequately in Afghanistan." According to Rice we need to "show that we have learned from our mistakes in Iraq and elsewhere and are prepared to cooperate and collaborate on the challenges we face," namely al-Qaeda, nuclear proliferation, and climate change.

I know Steve Clemons has expressed some concerns that Team Obama may have a problematic unwillingness to set priorities in foreign policy, but I thought Rice was admirably clear here. The question of cooperation and the question of priorities goes hand-in-hand. When you're willing to define what it is you think is really important, then the stage has been set for other countries to work with you. The kind of deterioration in America's ability to cooperate with other countries that we've seen over the past seven years stems not just from "cowboy diplomacy" but from Bush's grandiosity and lack of focus.

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Comments (58)

this means that Obama has actually "acquired more traditional washington foreign policy experience" than most presidents including Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy Carter

And George W. Bush, of course.

It's bizarre of his campaign to be trotting out talking points that didn't work for Hillary Clinton

It's bizarre to think that, because a tactic didn't work in a Democratic primary, it likewise won't work in a general election.

I don't have a view on the substance of the subject, but, still, I'm just sayin'.

There are two big questions in my mind:

1) How far will the MSM go to protect their boy McCain?

2) To what extent will they be able to convince the public their bullsh*t spin is the proper take on McCain's looniness.

This, 'oh he was only joking' business is a great example. Presidential candidates are not allowed to joke about doing crazy, yet plausible, things on important issues when they get to the White House. That quote alone should kill him in the general. How many more will he generate and the MSM will excuse for him? Will the public hear about them anyway? In a normal (even by US standards) media environment, McCain would be buried by Obama. He might not carry more than Arizona and a few Southern states. Of course, it's that inherent media advantage that got McCain the nomination in the first place.

It's bizarre to think that, because a tactic didn't work in a Democratic primary, it likewise won't work in a general election.

But this is a from-the-left attack on Obama for being too mean to our friends in Pakistan. If that doesn't cut it with Democrats, who's going to agree? Obama's just endorsing the Bush administration's policy.

Looks like Obama has a strong candidate for Secretary of State. Rice is so smart.

When McCain speaks ex tempore recently he comes across as older and more addled than Reagan did in his first debate with Mondale where the public got a whiff of Reagan's incipient senility. McCain's thrashing around in bar stool/locker room generalities exaggerates the effect that his wrinkles and wattles produce. It's like we're getting ready to vote for an short-tempered, uncharismatic de Valera or ben Guirion.

Good post, but...

One key point of emphasis was the strange notion coming from the McCain campaign that talking about focused counterterrorism operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan is irresponsible, whereas randomly threatening to start new wars is the height of good sense.

The original criticism of Obama's "bomb Pakistan" idea was that Pakistan is a tinderbox, and that whatever the merits of the policy, having potentially the next American commander-in-chief talking, even casually, about military action against Pakistan was bound to have a real-time effect on its domestic politics. Standing less than two months since Bhutto's assassination and less than 48 hrs since Pakistanis rebuked the most US-friendly political party, it still doesn't seem very smart to talk about US military options in Pakistan, whatever the merits.

I like McCain win and become the president of the USA because then we will have every right to Bomb Bomb Bomb the USA! (You may think I am joking, but I am not!)

Again, here's what Obama said:

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.

Once those words are widely known, I don't see how McCain can publicly disagree with them. If nothing else, pushing this argument will drive down McCain's support among national security hawks--who he's gearing up to rely upon heavily.

Brilliant positioning by Susan Rice and Barack Obama. McCain looks idiotic critizing Obama of wanting to bomb our "ally Pakistan" and then the U.S. turns around and launches missiles in Pakistan killing a wanted key Al Quaeda operative. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/18/world/main1219000.shtml

McCain and Co. want to fight terrorists the old-fashioned, Cold War way. They are stuck in the past thinking that launching wars against nation states is going to get Al Quaeda. This is dangerous and distrastrous. We need to do exactly what we did in Pakistan last week and go after the terrorists - get in, kill them, and get out.

I'm not sure where Obama stands on counter-terrorism, but it is encouraging that he doesn't want to start new wars (but will he go after the terrorists in places like Pakistan - I'm beginning to think so); he's against nuclear proliferation and these nukes getting into the hands of terrorists, and putting in place policies that help wean American off it's Arabic oil dependency.

Carter never served on a nuclear sub. He was in training to do so but dropped out after his father died.

But this is a from-the-left attack on Obama for being too mean to our friends in Pakistan. If that doesn't cut it with Democrats, who's going to agree?

No, I don't think so. It's an attack on Obama for acting like a naive cowboy. That's not a left or right issue, it's an issue of experience vs. naivite. That Hillary couldn't pull it off doesn't mean McCain can't.

Obama's just endorsing the Bush administration's policy.

But, no, he isn't. Obama was specifically discussing the called-off 2005 attack on Pakistan. As southpaw quoted it above, Obama said calling off the attack was a big mistake. But the reason that Rumsfled called it off was that it became a gigantic invasion!

So, in fact, Obama was endorsing a policy of invasion that not even Bush and Rumsfeld had the guts to attempt. McCain was endorsing the Bush policy of not invading; Obama disagreed.

Now, as it happens, I agree with Obama. I wish that Rumsfeld would have approved invading Pakistan. But I'm a neocon warmonger! Is the rest of the country ready for that?

The difference between McCain attacking Obama while using the same ammo is...

1) There's no media holding up a shield to protect Obama during the general,

2) Obama will be held to the same standards as McCain, unlike the totally off charade re HRC,

3) McCain won't be called off by RNC stooges, much like the Clintons are by the DNC ones nowadays. No Sir.

But, no, he isn't. Obama was specifically discussing the called-off 2005 attack on Pakistan. As southpaw quoted it above, Obama said calling off the attack was a big mistake. But the reason that Rumsfled called it off was that it became a gigantic invasion!

So, in fact, Obama was endorsing a policy of invasion that not even Bush and Rumsfeld had the guts to attempt. McCain was endorsing the Bush policy of not invading; Obama disagreed.

Al, without reaching the merits of your argument . . . If Obama can get to McCain's right on attacking Al Qaeda while remaining to McCain's left on the Iraq war, that'll pretty much sew up the election, won't it?

So... McCain would drop several billion pounds of payload on Iran, but he can't spare one bomb for Bin Laden?

So... McCain would drop several billion pounds of payload on Iran, but he can't spare one bomb for Bin Laden?

So... McCain would drop several billion pounds of payload on Iran, but he can't spare one bomb for Bin Laden?

"Susan Rice talking about the contrasts between her boy Barack Obama..."(emphasis added)

What an odd way to begin this posting. Did Rice refer to Barack Obama as her "boy"? Or was this your invention?

I see McCain as basically losing on this round.

Looks that way to me too. Talk about showing your behind to your own base.

Of course, the good Senator can always keep pounding on Michelle Obama to get that good old Republican slime machine, that we all know so well and love so much, warmed up and ready to go for the general.

I look for a big win for Obama in Texas and a victory in OH. And then, to twist the phrase, the green lady in New York harbor will have sung.

It is pretty cut and dried. It is seven years since WTC, seven years since Bush said that he was going to bring Osama bin Laden in, dead or alive, and it has been seven years of failure. I do wish Obama would ask why this failure happened - since, to my mind, it seems clear that Osama bin Laden was allowed to escape so that the Bushies would have a scare figure with which they could take political advantage and embark on a war that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. In other words, the Bushies put their interests above those of the U.S., leaving us less secure now than when they came in. On the other hand, this is a story that the MSM is loath to accept, since they have operated as enablers, so perhaps it is just as well Obama doesn't go there. However, like so much that has happened during the Bush administration, there is an air of the Emperor's clothes over the whole affair - the press, playing their usual suck up role, simple pretend that there is nothing unusual about spending a trillion dollars on a global war on terror against a handful of paramilitaries who escape with apparent ease from the American military and continue to operate successfully on a shoestring. Normally, this would be called a failure that makes Carter's Iran policy look like a roaring success.

Of course, the Bush zombies out in hate radio land aren't going to see this, but it is odd that the national press takes its cues unilaterally from the Bush zombies.

On McCain using Hillary talking points. . . You know, McCain adviser Charlie Black does work for a subsidiary of Mark Penn's lobbying firm. Maybe they're sharing notes. It makes sense for McCain. If he can knock Obama down now, he faces a weaker GE opponent who's coming off running a divisive primary campaign in Hillary. For Hillary it makes sense in two ways. Maybe she can still pull this out, though it seems increasingly doubtful. Even if she doesn't, she might want McCain to win the GE so she can have another shot in 12. Well, that's a bit conspiratorial and I don't think there's active coordination going on, but I do think that it puts things in perspective to keep in mind that McCain and Hillary have a common interest in attacking Obama when we see them using some of the very same talking points.

Obama emphasises the whole 'break from Washington's bad habits' shtick precisely because he's underexperienced.

When someone always see Obama winning every round, there's not a lot of credibility there.

I think the point to stress is that in the general election Obama will not have the same protection of the media and party stalwarts. Ted Kennedy is not going to be able to call John McCain on the phone and tell him to stop attacking Obama.

Obama said calling off the attack was a big mistake. But the reason that Rumsfled called it off was that it became a gigantic invasion!
So, in fact, Obama was endorsing a policy of invasion that not even Bush and Rumsfeld had the guts to attempt.

Al, that's a glaring non sequitur. Disagreeing with R's decision not to do X is not the same thing as endorsing whatever R decides to do instead of X.

-- or, is not the same as endorsing any particular alternative to X, I should say. But now I'm unsure of my own argument here, so never mind.

Barack Obama doesn't have enough experience to mollycoddle Bin Laden.

Barack Obama doesn't have enough experience to make light of starting a new war with Iran.

Just got off a conference call with Susan Rice talking about the contrasts between her boy Barack Obama and John McCain on national security policy.

Finally Matthew is showing his true colors. He has called Barack Obama a "boy", the most disgusting racial epithet he could have used. This is dog-whistle politics at its worst. And not only that, he states clearly that Obama is Susan Rice's "boy", as if he is her personal slave or servant. How disgusting!

We all know that MY, as a writer, chooses his words carefully and that this could not be an accidental slip or an innocent usage of the term that might equally well be used to refer to a white male politician. Nope. There is only one possible conclusion. MY may not actually be a racist, but he is clearly playing the race card for partisan purposes.

Obamabots, attack!

[P.S. If you don't get that I'm being sarcastic, please check your pulse re-read the above.]

If Obama can get to McCain's right on attacking Al Qaeda while remaining to McCain's left on the Iraq war, that'll pretty much sew up the election, won't it?

I dunno. How does he get there? If it makes him sound incoherent or naive in foreign policy, then I'm not sure the placement of the policies on an ideological scale makes as much of a difference.

I think the point to stress is that in the general election Obama will not have the same protection of the media and party stalwarts. Ted Kennedy is not going to be able to call John McCain on the phone and tell him to stop attacking Obama.

I see. The primary is just like Vietnam. Clinton would've won, but the Democrats and the media wouldn't let her.

Third, there's more to life than being a prisoner of DC conventional wisdom...

I think (hope) that's your phrasing, Matt -- That's an metaphor I hope no-one in the Obama campaign is ever dumb enough to use wrt McCain. You may want to avoid it yourself.

Seriously, I think the MSM would make as much of that as if a McCain-ite called Obama a "slave to libeal orthodoxy".

m

Matt, Obama wasn't endorsing the Bush administration's policy; he meant his proposal as a critique. In any case, the Bush administration policy is to do as much of what needs to be done in Pakistan within the limits of the political reality of Pakistan. Making the invasions of Pakistani sovereignty overt rather than covert is, or would be, a decided change in American policy, and not a good one.

I do love that Obama will be bringing his own pony. The stage is set! Hope is a plan!

Third, there's more to life than being a prisoner of DC conventional wisdom...

I think (hope) that's your phrasing, Matt -- That's an metaphor I hope no-one in the Obama campaign is ever dumb enough to use wrt McCain. You may want to avoid it yourself.

Seriously, I think the MSM would make as much of that as if a McCain-ite called Obama a "slave to libeal orthodoxy".

m

"Finally Matthew is showing his true colors. He has called Barack Obama a "boy", the most disgusting racial epithet he could have used."

Hey pal, you're a racist for reading it that way.

One of the greatest contributions of African Americans to United States culture is SLANG. Almost all North American English slang comes from African Americans, including "my man", "your boy" and nearly every other funny or expressive bit of slang that has ever come into the vernacular

There's also a stereotype of dickwad dinosaur southerners called blacks "boy". The two have nothing to do with each other and you're an anal, overly-literal, idiot for implying that they do. Stop reading words and start reading for comprehension.

The liberal linguistics-police have had their 20+ year reign of terror and have nearly destroyed the democratic party in the process. Why do you think we have to call ourselves progressive instead of liberal? Because you and your stupid language police have made common sense Americans hate your guts.

Go away and stay away. Take your small minded attacks on English slang and go to hell.

Has anyone laid claim to this yet?

John McCain't

...as in he ain't gonna win in November

or how about John McCan't?

I'm torn...

Hey, obsessed, did you miss the PS on my post, kindly placed there for literal-minded types such as yourself? I suggest that you take your high-blood-pressure medication, re-read it, and stop being so free with accusations of racism.

The point I was making is that, duh, people have been willy nilly accusing the Clinton campaign of racism and playing the race card for language much less objectionable than a careless use of the word "boy". Andrew Cuomo was hung out to dry for using the words "shuck and jive" and Bill was excoriated for using the words "fairy tale" and making a reference to Jesse Jackson. Is it not obvious that I'm trying to show how someone who wants to make unkind interpretations of other people's words can easily do so?

MY himself has accused the Clintons of playing the race card, so that's why I'm trying to jump on him for this. Get a grip.

And why not go after the people in this same thread who, non-sarcastically, went after MY on his metaphorical use of the word "prisoner"?

Rob:

I think we're just witnessing why it's so unhealthy to elevate any politician to the level that many Obama supporters have. It really warps one's perspective pretty badly.

"her boy Barack Obama?" would you say, "her girl Hilary Clinton?"

no, you would not

My thought too, Michael, except I didn't think of the clever analogy. Matthew, please pay attention to that comment. It's a good one.

I believe you made a spelling error. You wrote "perogative." The word I think you meant is "prerogative."

Hope this helps. Keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your blog.

Matt,
Don't want to be hypersensitive, but it honestly does not seem appropriate to refer to Obama as a "boy." I have no doubt you would refer to any other male candidate in the race that way, and that you meant no disrespect, but to say the least this is a loaded term to use about a black man. I have the same question as notanumber -- were you quoting or was this your own usage?

I'm getting pretty tired of this culture of victimization by Obama supporters. The truth is Obama would not even be running were he not black. Were Obama Caucasian he would be a less experienced version of Russ Feingold or the late Paul Wellstone. The fact he is African American is the sole reason he can claim to be running a historic campaign at all. While some voters will no doubt withhold their vote due to racism, on balance his ethnic identity has a huge net plus for his candidacy. Bill Clinton was right: Barack Obama is a symbol of change.

ha.. matt, nice try.. i have more foreign policy experience than obama just from reading books and magazines for the last 5 years. its obvious that obama has not spent much time thinking about foreign policy; his answers to related questions are always random.

your post does a feeble attempt at comparing obama to past presidents, then attacks mccain, and still leaves us thinking wtf obama thinks.

maybe bizarro obama can help us

OMFG, 'her boy' has zero racial/racist content. It's a quite common bit of slang. Get your head out of 1963.

The only thing I would infer from MY's use of "her/your boy" is that he has been watching the unwatchable ESPN smack-fest Pardon the Interruption (both Michael Wilbon and the abominable Tony Kornheiser use the expression habitually).

This, 'oh he was only joking' business is a great example. Presidential candidates are not allowed to joke about doing crazy, yet plausible, things on important issues when they get to the White House.

I agree. I understand where the question was coming from, and you're right that it might not hurt him, but it should. In a sane world "McCain was only joking about starting another preemptive war that's expected to go even worse than the current one," would not be considered a defense of him at all.

Might want to think again.

If Democrats try to challenge McCain on military matters, "they play into another campaign based on fear and military strength. And they lose, again. John Kerry's military career far out-trumped Bush's, but Republicans Swift-boated Kerry and won on a fear campaign."

http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/anatomy-of-mccains-soft-on-terror.html

Nice try though.

MY - (Carter in fact served on a nuclear sub and I'm told this gave him a better understanding of nuclear issues than presidents before or after).

Matt Yglesias again spews crap. It is a shame he never fack checks.

Jimmy Carter, the POS, never completed nuclear power training, never served on a nuclear naval vessel.

He left the Navy to take over his Dad's peanut wholesale business before the 1st nuke sub was launched. As for Presidents, people in the civilian nuke industry and the military say no President was more damaging than James Earl Carter - who was an idiot on strategic arms, an idiot on supporting anti-nukes out to destroy nuke as an alternate source of power, and the President that abetted the rad waste problem by creating a body of laws with Dem Congressional connivance - that blocked recycling and reprocessing nuclear fuel to eliminate long-lived waste.

The Presidents with the best understanding of military and civilian nuclear issues were Eisenhower, LBJ, Clinton, and Nixon - with Nixon at the top.
*********************
First, Obama does have experience, with Rice citing the fact that he authored "crucial legislation to secure the United States from the threat of loose nuclear materials" and serves on committees and subcommittees dealing with foreign relations, veterans affairs, and homeland security

Susan Rice spews horsecrap. Just being a Legislator and authoring bills does not make one an "expert". If that was true, Robert Byrd would be the foremost authority on highway construction and cancer research by virtue of the many bills he has passed to move those activities into West Virginia.

Then Rice talks out the other side of her mouth about the magnificent judgment Obama has shown on the single issue that matters, Iraq - that others less "gifted" than he with more experience, got wrong. IMO, I liken Obama to a new stockbroker who decided to go for broke and pile all his 1st clients funds into a single speculative stock that did well, because he had little assets and no reputation. Who is now silver tonguing new clients and touting his "vastly superior judgement and wisdom" compared to other brokers that have billion dollar portfolios and do not advertise that they got their single stock right, but that they have shown good judment and returns over the years by picking 60% winners, 20% modest performers, 15% dogs, 5% disasters.

**********************
More MY drivel - this means that Obama has actually "acquired more traditional washington foreign policy experience" than most presidents including Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton... You could have added Eisenhower and FDR.
The difference being that those men, plus JFK&Nixon, were adept executives that surrounded themselves with foreign policy experts. And decided foreign policy on who made the best case.

Obama lacks any executive experience from military service, private industry, or serving as governor or other Executive Head of an important city or goverment agency.

I realize I'm the one that brought this up, but I don't agree that, in a sane world, there would be anything at all wrong with MY's use of the word "boy". Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. There are a lot of people who analyze public speech and look for ways to be offended, and that's just too bad.

We'll know we're in post-racist and post-sexist environment when people can refer, affectionately, to politicians black or white as "my girl" or "my boy" without anyone either taking offense or pretending to take offense or expecting anyone else to take offense. We're not there yet, so I'd say that MY's use of the word was unwise to say the least.

On foreign policy, you could boil it all down to:

"McCain's crazy, Obama's not."

So Steve - this one is going to be tough for you.

Neocon v. Black guy.

You kind of want to move to South America and start the "Paultown" complex, huh?

Several readers have already pointed out the questionable choice of words in your opening. Personally, I would have chosen "her man" and not boy. The other readers have taken you to task, so I won't rehash what they've said. It is perjorative and should not be used unless you're referring to a young male. At 46, Obama hasn't been a boy for about 30 years.

However, when the pundit class can fill two full news cycles -- even with the landslide wins of Obama in Hawai'i and Wisconsin -- with Michelle Obama is "unpatriotic" (bullsh*t by any stretch of the imagination), it is only fair to question your use of words.

That said, Susan Rice is impressive, extremely smart and an asset to Obama's foreign policy team. I'm looking forward to seeing more her.

Susan Rice is as impressive as usual. I really hope that she will have a position in Obama's cabinet in 2009.

Susan Rice is so impressive she can be the next Madeline Albright. I really hope hope so.

The NYTimes has a new story out about McCain's ethics, or lack thereof, and the lead is about him banging some lobbyist and doing her favors in his committee.

I love it when there is a story that can unite us 'warring' Dems.

the lead is about him banging some lobbyist and doing her favors in his committee.

!!!!

looks like susan rice is well known for one thing:

"during Bill Clinton's second term, Rice played a major role in the decision to refuse Sudan’s offer to hand over Bin Laden"
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/02/019837.php

at least we can still "hope" she can be impressive

Hey, at least BO knows who the President of Pakistan is.

More than the guy McCain has spent seven years mostly defending can say. Or could at the same point in their respective campaigns.


Comments closed March 05, 2008.

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