« The Criticizable Obama | Main | Fire on the Right » Is Barack Obama a Fascist?13 Feb 2008 11:44 am Early returns suggest the answer is yes. I found this tidbit from Jonah Goldberg particularly compelling: Tellingly, "we are the ones we've been waiting for" is some Native American spiritualism warmed up for New Age audiences. Telling, indeed. After all, Adolf Hitler loved dime-store Westerns.... Comments (59)
The brownshirts were the bad guys riding the purple sage? 
Dunno about fascist, but he sure does inspire a Cult of Personality. (Indeed, Matthew himself acknowledged the cult thing a couple of days about.)
No, No, the DP is a gift to all of us. You would hate Sadly, No! Here's my tidbit:But what I find most intriguing is his rhetoric of destiny and "choseness." I don't know what "choseness" is, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say that that is not Obama's word. More thoughts to come, I’m sure, as it looks like Obama isn’t going anywhere. Well, aside from the presidency, that is. I expect Jonah is rooting for this outcome, so he can write the sequel, Obamafascism. Indeed, it is central to his point.
Y'know, it's these little tidbits from Mr. Goldberg that serve to remind us that but for a well-connected parent he'd just be another run-of-the-mill troll.
Or is it "chosenness", as in being chosen? That sounds and looks better. I think "choseness" is spelled wrong. I read it as "chose-ness".
That's great. My favorite line is this: I've read bits of The Audacity of Hope, but none of the rest of Obama's stuff. Anyway here are some notes to ponder and elicit feedback. And then he goes on at Protein-Wisdom-length about what he's learned from the bits he's read. Didn't Goldberg learn anything from the last time he admitted not having read stuff?
About what elected official, above the ranks of dog crusher, does "Cult of Personality" not apply?
And someone else says Hitler was a vegetarian! And Hussein is right in his name!
About what elected official, above the ranks of dog crusher Please vote for me for dog crusher. Together, we can change the way people in Washington crush dogs. We are the dog crushers we've been waiting for!
Jonah's idiotic use of the word "fascist" conceals a decent point that Al made above. Obama has developed a Cult of Personality. I think there are people hungry to be involved in something larger than themselves who find him appealing, as if he fills a spiritual hole. Jonah takes it way too far and basically says, Well because it's like fascist movements in the past in this sense, then it must be fascism (minus, you know, the secret police, repressive nationalism, and militant society). However, mass politics and social movements are not bad things, and they're in no way inherently fascist. I hope that Obama's supporters remain engaged in the political process after this campaign and after his term(s) in office (knocks on wood). Obama is not the solution to our problems, and many of our problems will persist even after he's gone and we're gone. So people should be encouraged to stay engaged.
About what elected official, above the ranks of dog crusher, does "Cult of Personality" not apply? First of all - dog "crusher"? Yikes! I hope that's a typo. Second, good question. But still, some seem to inspire a Cult of Personality more than others. (On a completely unrelated note, hey, how about that Bush guy, isn't he awesome?)
Nah, ridiculing Jonah is just too much fun. Especially when he says stupid shit like this: I think there's a lot one could say about it, though I haven't really thought it all through yet. And then he launches into a thousand-word post that proves beyond a doubt that he has not really thought it all through yet. How awesome is it that the Republican party puts this guy forth as one of its leading public intellectuals?
goddamn, that Jonah Goldberg is one stupid motherfucker
Dunno about fascist, but he sure does inspire a Cult of Personality. So, what exactly distinguishes 'Cult' from, say, enthusiasm? That some of it is personality-based? That seems pretty standard for politicians, present and past (GWB is no exception, here). That there is a lot of enthusiasm? That just seems to demonstrate popularity -- it's not as if there is a Ron-Paul sized constituency that happens to be loud. I'm having trouble understanding this little meme. It seems odd to me to attack a candidate for having too much or too enthusiastic support.
" ...hey, how about that Bush guy, isn't he awesome?" I've been wondering when the dead and unlamented 'unappreciated genius of George Bush' meme would be revived into a brain-eating zombie. Where's George Romero when you need him?
Inasmuch as America is now the most hated country in the world, Americans are looking for a symbol of change as never before. Hill/Bill Clinton and "100 years in Iraq" McCain ain't it. Obama reminds us that America can once more be not only great but loved. (By the way, that's not fascism.)
This is the best part
I'm having a little difficulty with the "cult of personality" thing about Obama, too. Would someone explain why a guy who yes, brings in new, enthusiastic voters, and who yes, inspires old veteran voters to get out and knock on doors and make phone calls for primaries deserves the rather Stalinist comparison? We all agree that Obama fans really like Obama, but there has to be something sinister about that, I would think, in order to get compared with Stalin...It ain't like people are trying to get him elected President-for-Life. (On the old veteran voters point, I had an elderly lady tell me she hasn't been this excited about a candidate since FDR! Ha!)
"dog crusher" I'd assumed that an allusion to George Leroy Tirebiter was a safe one.
Please vote for me for dog crusher. Together, we can change the way people in Washington crush dogs. We are the dog crushers we've been waiting for! Oh man, that was perfect!
After all, Adolf Hitler loved dime-store Westerns.... Adolf Hitler had a girlfriend. Heterosexuality must therefore be one of the hallmarks of fascism...
How is this cult of personality different than GWB being "chosen by God" or the Republican Reagan-off.
I'd assumed that an allusion to George Leroy Tirebiter was a safe one. What's that, Firesign Theater?
How many people are just praying to God that the next time Obama approaches the podium, he says "In the few moments... that we have left... I want to talk right down to earth... in a language that everybody here can easily understand," and then launches into a MONSTER guitar riff? Perhaps someone can check if Vernon Reid would want to assist with that.
"So, what exactly distinguishes 'Cult' from, say, enthusiasm?" I think it's a matter of language. People respond to the "We are the ones we've been waiting for" shtick. On the surface, I think it's a great call for taking initiative, that we can't exactly wait for some great class of heroes to come and solve all our problems. At the same time, it has this collective self-importance to it. Which is not fascist, obviously, but it distinguishes it from the enthusiasm that Clintonites feel for Clinton. "They want a sense of purpose, a narrative arc to their lives. They’re looking to relieve a chronic loneliness, a feeling supported by a recent study that shows Americans have fewer close friends and confidants than ever before. And so they need an assurance that somebody out there cares about them, is listening to them—that they are not just destined to travel down that long highway towards nothingness." Like I said, not fascist, and there is nothing wrong with mass political engagement. My only concern is that for many Obama supporters, this enthusiasm stops at Obama. Of course, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Democrats are fine with either Clinton or Obama, which shows that issues may trump personality after all, so maybe I shouldn't raise my eyebrow so much at the enthusiasm Obama generates.
I like Obama, but if he had made a commitment to pull his name from the ballot in a major primary and not followed though, he would lose my support.
Dunno about fascist, but he sure does inspire a Cult of Personality. This would seem to be a misuse of the term as it is historically understood.
Do McCain's rants about not striving for in personal glory but the greater good qualify him for the honor of being a fascist? Methinks they should.
I.e. definitely not befitting someone as historically scrupulous as we all know Goldberg is.
So being articulate and well-liked is tantamount to fascism, which would make Jonah Goldberg... the most truly democratic person in America?
Having and using charisma is not the same thing as having a cult of personality. People who are trying to build a cult of personality around themselves do not admit to having used cocaine. If a future President Obama orders murals and statues of himself built on every street corner, then we'll talk. For comparison between what your Poli Sci 104 notes say and an actual example of a personality cult, here's a quote from Krushchev's speech denouncing Stalin's: "Comrades, the cult of the individual acquired such monstrous size chiefly because Stalin himself, using all conceivable methods, supported the glorification of his own person. . . . One of the most characteristic examples of Stalin's self-glorification and of his lack of even elementary modesty is the edition of his Short Biography, which was published in 1948. This book is an expression of the most dissolute flattery, an example of making a man into a godhead, of transforming him into an infallible sage, "the greatest leader," "sublime strategist of all times and nations." Finally no other words could be found with which to lift Stalin up to the heavens. We need not give here examples of the loathsome adulation filling this book. All we need to add is that they all were approved and edited by Stalin personally and some of them were added in his own handwriting to the draft text of the book."
Obama is actually rather self-deprecating on a personal level (although he pushes the significance of the political "movement" he supposedly leads). That's part of his charm. Didn't Goldberg learn anything from the last time he admitted not having read stuff? It got him a best-seller. Why stop now? Stupidity sells.
Goldberg's is an exercise in trivial namecalling. The post is like a messy deliberation over how valid it would be to call Obama a 'wanker': Goldberg's definition of 'fascist', since it disingenuously ignores the word's entrenched association with totalitarianism and genocide in rummaging for aspects of the political movement that echo 21st-century liberal données, is, just like a swearword, intellectually vacuous.
Incidentally the reason Obama is so popular and "hero-worshipped" is because the average national politicians these days are such pathetic little fucktards. Obama shines by comparison. People clamor for his sheer normalism. He sounds like a regular person. (I know people thought Bush did, but that's because they were fucktards, too.)
There's even a website called "Is Barack Obama the Messiah?" Does Pantload really think that this is serious, or is he just a lying asshat using whatever weapon comes to hand. It's also telling that this divinization of the masses and/or the movement has a long pedigree, going back at least to the French Revolution.. At Least? Understatement of the year stinky-pants. There are so many examples of this stuff going back so far that it ruins your entire effort to try and pin it all to the French Revolution (and thereby to leftists). But when you are a lightweight non-scholar whose only use for history is to use it to make political points, I suppose limiting your knowledge horizon to the past 200 years is understandable. Everything else he needed to learn about history he learned by watching oiled men in Gladiator movies.
At the same time, it has this collective self-importance to it. Ok. But wouldn't that rhetoric of inclusion and movement sort of make it the opposite of a Cult of Personality? He's painting himself as the standard-bearer for wide sentiment, not an individual who is magically unique or special. He's claiming to be good, not God.
TooMannyDans, since you brought it up, As an avid Living Colour fan I'd guess that Vernon would be game for your suggestion (unless he's a Hillary supporter...but I doubt that seeing as he takes great pride in his "blackness". The whole band does). I will say that the opening riff to "Cult" is truly one of the best guitar riffs of all time. I won't say the "best" but it's certainly in a tie with some of the big ones. I vividly remember going to see the movie Twins when I was in 8th grade and my buddies older brother had to drive us there. On the drive he kept playing this super-heavy song on the tape-deck at near deafening volume, and it was then that I realized I had to learn to play guitar. Been playing ever since, so it was literally a riff that changed my life. I also remember being shocked when I saw that the band was 4 black guys. And the songs were about cultural/political issues. And now I'm putting my vote 100% behind a black man who inspires me in a different (yet similiar) way. Sorry to stray so far from politics to personal annecdote, but that's actually one of the things I love about MY's comments section. The variety. The goatee thread was brilliant.
The "we're the ones we've been waiting for" idea (which I agree exists within the Obama campaign) belies the whole concept of there being a "cult of personality" surrounding the person of Obama, does it not? I mean, Obama goes around and says, "this movement is about you." And, while that may strike people as self-important (I thought self-governing was kind of important, but whatever), it is actually a practical thing to say...Obama won't be able to fundamentally change anything without a mobilized citizenry helping to change things; if he's just some President going up against various interest groups or adversaries without sustained support from "you" (the grassroots), he'll win some and lose some but be unable to change anything fundamentally. And any "cult of personality" that plausibly claims "I can't do this by myself without your sustained support" is not a "cult of personality" worth its salt...
How many people are just praying to God that the next time Obama approaches the podium, he says "In the few moments... that we have left... I want to talk right down to earth... in a language that everybody here can easily understand," and then launches into a MONSTER guitar riff? Posted by TooManyDans | February 13, 2008 12:39 PM Love it when that song comes up on my Ipod shuffle. Still, the lyrics are amazing spot on about the appeal of Obama as evidenced by some of his supporters both in and out of the media. "Look into my eyes, what do you see? Cult of Personality/ I know your anger, I know your dreams/I've been everything you want to be/ I'm the Cult of Personality/Like Mussolini and Kennedy/I'm the Cult of Personality/Cult of Personality/Cult of Personality Neon lights, A Nobel Price/The mirror speaks, the reflection lies/You don't have to follow me/Only you can set me free/I sell the things you need to be/I'm the smiling face on your T.V./I'm the Cult of Personality/I exploit you still you love me I tell you one and one makes three/I'm the Cult of Personality/Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi/I'm the Cult of Personality/Cult of Personality/Cult of Personality Neon lights a Nobel Prize/A leader speaks, that leader dies/You don't have to follow me/Only you can set you free You gave me fortune/You gave me fame/You me power in your God's name/I'm every person you need to be/I'm the Cult of Personality"
It's also telling that this divinization of the masses and/or the movement has a long pedigree, going back at least to the French Revolution. yeah, it goes back at least that far, Goldberg, you fucking numbskull.
Thank God, some traction on the Living Colour theme. This thread was way too serious for coming off a snarky comment on Jonah Goldberg. I saw them with the Stones when I was in 8th grade. We must be about the same age, Uncle Ebeneezer. As to their music, there may not be anything else that better opened my eyes to (or at least made me think about) the prevalence of a sort of soft racism in this country. "No, I'm not gonna rob you," indeed.
What I find more compelling is that the author he has not completely read anything Obama has ever written. Then he goes on in paragraph three to butcher the English language in a pedestrian way when he say, "He exalts unity as it's own reward." Trying to teach young people the difference between and appropriate use of "it's" and "its" is one of the causes of my life. It's a difficult battle with the likes of Goldberg and his platform.
You know, someone with half a brain could make a decent case that Obama's ripping "we are the change that we seek" off Gandhi without attribution (see http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/2050 ). But no. That would be too much work. And as far as the use of the term "chosen people" only going back as far as the French Revolution? Jonah? Baby? TAKE A F***ING LOOK IN THE MIRROR.
and, naturally, I have a typo....I meant to say, "What I find more compelling is that the author SAYS he has not completely read anything Obama has ever written."
"Obama has developed a Cult of Personality. I think there are people hungry to be involved in something larger than themselves who find him appealing, as if he fills a spiritual hole." this cult of personality meme about Obama is lame and lazy. Millions of his supporters, including me, have no, repeat NO hope or expectations that he can or will effect miracles. We judge him, relative to the other candidates as the possessing the qualities we believe the country needs for the next President: integrity, intelligence, good judgement, open-mindedness, and relative freedom from the baggage of Atwater-Rove-Bush-Gingrich-Delay-Clinton-HRC school of political discourse and behavior. There is a risk here but the downside is not great, as he will undoubtedly get lots of "help" from his staff and Congress, including his political adversaries. The downside of going with Clinton or McCain are known and much greater in our view. It is anything but cult of personality.
"The messianic nature of Obama's campaign has been noted by many for a long time now. He often sounds like he's reviving the social gospel. There's even a website called "Is Barack Obama the Messiah?" If one more member of the party that's still on its knees worshiping Ronald Reagan, a man who hasn't been president for 19 years, talks about the "cult of Obama," I am seriously going to scream. Bob Dole jumped on the bandwagon the other day, and select pols and talking heads keep going out and talking about how energized people are at Obama rallies like political engagement is a bad thing... Although, when your party's nominee has decided to run as a pro-war, anti-hope candidate, I guess hate and idiocy is all you have left.
It's also telling that this divinization of the masses and/or the movement has a long pedigree, going back at least to the French Revolution. The Jacobins claimed that the French Nation represented the new "chosen people." The Italian Fascists said the same thing about the Italians. The Nazis believed likewise about the Germans.Shorter Goldberg: Jews? Objectively fascist.
That lyric, referenced above, to Living Color's "Cult of Personality" is incredibly stupid, btw; as if there's some relevant comparison between Stalin and Gandhi other than the large crowds (captive in Stalin's case, surely that difference matters) before which both men spoke.
I am not in the habit of reading Goldberg. Was that some form of self parody or is his cluelessness authentic? The incoherence of thought was summed up at the end when he said Barack Obama wasn't going anywhere. That can be read more than one way. Does he know what he meant by that comment?
What Obama is trying to be is a blank canvas for all and sundry to see whatever kind of candidate they want to see. This has worked fine against Hillary thus far; It's unclear to me how well it will work against McCain. Eventually, he'll have to issue something that resembles specifics
Do McCain's rants about not striving for in personal glory but the greater good qualify him for the honor of being a fascist? Methinks they should. Goldberg might have agreed with you before Romney dropped out, but as I'm sure you're well aware, the front runner for the GOP nomination, by definition, cannot be a fascist. I'm sure the Cornerites are hard at work right now expunging any intimations that McCain is anything less than a perfect leader.
TMD, my favorite Colour-ism was always "I just want to know, which way should I go, to get to your America." Perhaps if Edwards had chosen that song for his campaign... Truthfully, I can't think of a popular band that had such consistently Liberal/Progressive lyrics and covered such a variety of topics (landlords, drugs, racism, income inequality, AIDS etc.) Even their most recent album Colleideoscope, has topics like 9/11, American Imperialism, etc. Rage Against the Machine was great but their call to revolution kinda got tedious. Bruce and Mellencamp do the heartland sap pretty well. And of course gangsta rap did the ghetto concerns. But I never understood why LC didn't become the darlings of the Dem party (or at least the NAACP.) Last time I saw them (about a year ago in Hollywood) they totally ripped. Even "Glamour Boys" had the crowd going nuts. KTH, that might not technically be the most accurate lyrical comparison, but it sure sounded cool.
Truthfully, I can't think of a popular band that had such consistently Liberal/Progressive lyrics and covered such a variety of topics (landlords, drugs, racism, income inequality, AIDS etc.) Spirit of the West? Midnight Oil? Neither one's American, granted, but both would seem to fit your description in Canada and Australia respectively.
Just read Jonah's piece. What's hilarious to me is that he thinks and writes EXACTLY like a postmodern literary critic haunting some English Department somewhere. That is, he doesn't use good old-fashioned Western logic and reasoning -- instead he falls back on tropes, metaphors, elisions. Using Goldberg's methods, anyone with the slightest bit of academic-speak could make anybody sound like a fascist. Frankly the stunt is far past the point of embarrassing.
Sorry, Goldberg, there can be only one "Cult of Personality" in play at a time... And for me, at this time, that's Summer Glau. http://summer-glau.net/gallery/albums/scc_hq/fox2_03-summer-moody_0630.jpg http://summer-glau.net/gallery/albums/scc_hq/promo_new02.jpg http://summer-glau.net/gallery/albums/HQ3/scc_new01.jpg
don't you want to be in the house that reagen built.
I guess you guys don't know any poetry at all, but "we are the ones we've been waiting for" is from a pretty well-known poem by the late June Jordan, who at her death a few years ago was a professor at the University of California at Berkeley and a widely read poet. The poem is called "South Africa," and celebrates the freeing of all South Africans, of all skin colors and "races," from the prison of apartheid. There is also a song of the same title. I wouldn't expect a writer for Le Monde to know American poetry very well, and I don't expect Joe Klein of Time Magazine to know any either, but somebody working at journals that purport to be intellectual organs ought at least to have heard of the poem. I think, as do most people, that "we are the ones we've been waiting for" is a very eloquent statement, that has nothing to do with televangelists, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Caligula, Torquemada or any of the other well-known figures whose names have been tossed around in recent days. You must be desperate indeed.
""" That site is funny satire with a serious point about left-wing secular messianism. Yeah, pretend it is just a joke and there's no underlying meaning to it. If I were you I wouldn't drink the Kool-Aid in Guyana.
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Heads in the Sand
I find your commentary funny, but I think that a superior strategy would be to simply ignore him.
Posted by Wilson | February 13, 2008 12:01 PM