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Obama and the Details

11 Feb 2008 08:22 am

One anti-Obama meme that I notice has gotten a lot of support even among people sympathetic to his cause is the notion that he's somehow shallow or insufficiently well-versed in policy matters. Obviously, I can't crawl into either candidate's brain and take a look around, but this idea doesn't seem to me to be especially well-supported by the evidence. Instead, it seems to draw support from a kind of implicit Law of Conservation of Virtues -- the pretty girl can't be smart, the not-so-good-looking guy must be really nice -- that has people notice that Clinton is well-versed in policy but isn't a charismatic figure, and Obama is charismatic so it "must" be that he's not well-versed in policy. He's cool and she's the nerd.

This suits the media's taste for parallels and lazy narratives into which events can be squeezed. But there's really not much basis for it.

For one thing, these takes tend to have a certain vague quality to them and often are offered by people who don't, themselves, have a particular aptitude for policy. I've never heard an anecdote that involved someone talking to Obama about some policy question and walking away feeling he had a notably poor grasp of the issue. Those things do happen, though. I definitely had a conversation with a then-Senator about Iraq in 2006 in which I got the impression that though the Senator was working earnestly to inform himself about the issue his actual knowledge base was shockingly low considering how long the war had been going on. But with Obama? I haven't heard about it.

Meanwhile, this story is one of several narratives that seems to me to overlook his time in the Illinois State Senate. Obama didn't have some vast army of staffers to rely on in that role, and he wasn't just serving time there, either. He successfully authored and passed legislation and impressed a lot of Illinois progressives. Nor is the University of Chicago Law School in the habit of handing out teaching positions to dullards. Which brings to mind the additional point that one way the allegedly vast Clinton edge in policy expertise sometimes gets argued for seems to be defining "policy" in such a way as to make things where Obama clearly has more knowledge, interest, and experience -- constitutional law, criminal justice, non-proliferation policy -- not count as "policy." In the real world, appointing federal judges and prosecutors and weighing-in on federal litigation is an important presidential function.

Last there's the question of staff and advisors. The various smart people working with him on a whole variety of issues -- starting with Samantha Power and Karen Kornbluh when he first got to the Senate and expanding ever since -- don't have any really compelling reasons to have been working with him unless they thought he was a smart, impressive person who was up to the task of doing a good job on the issues they care the most about. Unlike dynasts like George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton or ex-veeps like George H.W. Bush or Al Gore, Obama hasn't had the luxury of simply inheriting a vast apparatus by default, he's had to build it himself. That's hard to do if experts come away from talking with you worried that you don't know what you're talking about.

UPDATE: On the conservation of virtues point, note that everyone agrees that Bill Clinton is both very well-versed in policy (like his wife) and a charismatic figure. There's no fundamental tension here.

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Comments (102)

I also think for the handful of people watching the debates, it has been pretty obvious that Obama is not a policy lightweight.

The one thing I will say is that I think it is true that Obama tends not to weigh down his speeches with a lot of policy detail. So if you only knew Obama from those speeches--and that may be a nontrivial number of people--this criticism would seem more plausible.

Thank you!

A query: What dynamic is at play for those inheriting a vast apparatus of credible advisors when said staff come to the conclusion you're an incurious dullard incapable of mastering policy? You say good advisors choose to hire on and stay with credible leaders. Why do good advisors stay with disreputable, obtuse leaders? Does choosing to stay negate their "goodness"?

I am convinced that this (relatively minor?) phenomenon is a corollary of Obama apparently choosing not to offer a vigorous and sustained response to Clinton's argument that she is the more experienced candidate.

All the clunky "Day One" rhetoric could have been easily turned to his advantage and in an elegant manner should he have wanted to.

My guess is that he consciously decided to allow her all the rope she wanted to hang herself on that point. Ex post, this seems to have worked pretty well; ex ante it seemed rather risky.

I am convinced that this (relatively minor?) phenomenon is a corollary of Obama apparently choosing not to offer a vigorous and sustained response to Clinton's argument that she is the more experienced candidate.

All the clunky "Day One" rhetoric could have been easily turned to his advantage and in an elegant manner should he have wanted to.

My guess is that he consciously decided to allow her all the rope she wanted to hang herself on that point. Ex post, this seems to have worked pretty well; ex ante it seemed rather risky.

I am convinced that this (relatively minor?) phenomenon is a corollary of Obama apparently choosing not to offer a vigorous and sustained response to Clinton's argument that she is the more experienced candidate.

All the clunky "Day One" rhetoric could have been easily turned to his advantage and in an elegant manner should he have wanted to.

My guess is that he consciously decided to allow her all the rope she wanted to hang herself on that point. Ex post, this seems to have worked pretty well; ex ante it seemed rather risky.

Agree with DTM's first post. The idea has gotten currency partly because the Clinton campaign has pushed it so hard, partly for the lazy media reasons you cite, but also in large part because Obama's rhetoric and his appeal aren't deeply rooted in policy specifics.

I keep hearing and reading the same thing -- even from people who know he's got a grasp of the issues (like Joe Klein). It's typically lazy "Fille up a column with conventional wisdom" idiocy.

If he gave a 15-part speech with 5-part plans in each segment, the same people would say he's boring and ask "who wants to hear that?"

But recently he's been dusting his stump speech with quite a few policy specifics, so even those columnists too dumb to point a web browser to the policy section of his website could figure out that he is talking about programs. It's just not the only thing he's talking about.

Clinton does quite a bit of vaporizing, too. It's just she's not the right messenger for a change message. It's also less compellingly written and delivered -- and as time goes by, more and more of it is lifted from Obama.

So the Harvard Law Review DOESN'T select its president on charm and good looks? Gosh, maybe he isn't such a flake after all.

As schtevie and Doug T point out, it has made strategic sense for Obama to focus on process rather than policy in the primary. With a couple of exceptions, the stylistic and symbolic differences between BO and HRC are greater than the policy differences.

This is going to change, however, in the general, and it will be interesting to see how Obama's campaign responds to a different opponent. The "change vs. experience" theme isn't going to go away, but the policy dimension of the argument is going to get a lot louder. I'll be interested to see what they emphasize. Iraq, for sure. But what else?

If you watch Obama's recent 60 minutes interview, you kind of get an idea why his stump speeches are light on policy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHe8N5hL0Wo

When he started out, they said he had too much policy in his speeches and town hall meetings, and that bored Iowans, so now that he's found some level of policy and prose that works, people say he's not got enough policy details.

I don't think many voters care about all the nitty gritty details, they want to hear the general plans on health care for all, and ending Iraq, but they want to believe in a candidate who can get things done.

Hilzoy had a great post about Obama's policy substance at Obsidian Wings: http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html.

It seems like his "problem" is that he is too focused on important issues that the media doesn't care about (especially non-proliferation, which weirdly gets no attention at all, despite being one of the more important national security issues out there.)

I think your analysis is spot-on here. I would add one more layer that I think contributes to the persistence of the meme. This notion isn't so much pushed as "Obama is a know-nothing" (certainly not when compared to, say, George Bush) as "Obama knows less than Clinton." But the comparison is based, I think, on being unduly enamored of numerical specifics. A couple of examples:

First, in the California debate during which the two candidates went back and forth for a good 30-45 minutes about their respective health care plans, focus group viewers felt Clinton won the debate because she offered more detail. But I watched the debate closely, and the only discernable difference in the levels of detail (irrespective of the significant differences between the plans and their philosophies) was that when Obama was asked to pay for his expensive plan, he said that some of the money would come from rolling back tax credits and some would come from cost savings. Hillary's answer: "$55 billion would come from tax cuts. The other $55 billion would come from cost savings." So Hillary wins the day for saying "$55 billion" twice? Come on.

Next, in discussing the mortgage crisis, each candidate offers slightly different plans for forestalling complete collapse, including setting up a bail-out program or freezing interest rates (the lunacy of which floors me). Both have supported variations on the Bush stimulus package. But the one prong of her plan that Hillary Clinton consistently trots out is her "90-day moritorium on foreclosures." It's great--heavy on the numeric specific, exceedingly light on the details of how-in-God's-name you actually implement such an edict over a process that is largely judicially controlled on a state-by-state basis. So, the virtual impossibility of this proposal aside, Hillary wins the point every time because it _sounds_ so specific. When Obama fires back that capping interest rates on home mortgages for five years might actually lead to a deepening of the housing crisis, that's somehow non-specific because he's not able to fit an economics lecture into a 90-second debate response.

The fact is that anyone who has educated him- or herself on the candidates' platforms by, say, reading them (readily available on each's web site) will see that both are chock-full of specifics, some workable, some not. That only one of them has a penchant for dropping essentially meaningless numbers on a yawning public does not support the assertion that the other is weak on the details.

People have noted that even when Obama does go into serious policy detail on the campaign trail (as he has been doing more lately), no one pays attention to it. All the TV clips and press coverage focus on the non-policy-oriented parts of his speech, because, frankly, for most people policy is godawful boring. Obama is a fine speaker and has very compelling non-policy things to say, and that's what draws the attention. And anyway, no one makes decisions in a presidential election based on policy bullet points anyway. I mean, for fuck's sake, George Bush got elected twice and he wouldn't know medicare from a hole in the ground.

The only reason this even comes up is because the Clinton people know that Hillary's wonkery is the only thing she has going for her, and consequently they're forced to constantly make the case that Barack, by contrast, is a lightweight. If they make the argument frequently enough it's inevitable they'll find at least a few lazy reporters who will buy it.

This is sort of Bill Clinton's fault to a degree. Being mind numbingly detailed in his policy proposals was part of his campaign strategy in 1992 and it worked. So now it is almost expected of (Democratic) candidates that they have a 10 point plan for every issue and that they talk about that plan constantly. Obama of course does have his own 10 point plans but that's not what he chooses to emphasis in his speeches. And thus you get the dubious meme that he is light on policy substance.

I think you are all missing the biggest reason for the dynamic. It's the deeming disconnect between the rhetoric and the policy specifics. Yes, his policy agenda is detailed, is pretty good from a moderately left perspective, and it represents gradual change in the way that the moderate left typically does. That kind of policy gradualism doesn't match the soaring rhetoric of change in his speeches.

Is that a criticism? Not necessarily. Candidates really promoting radical change don't get elected. On the other hand, if you feel, as I do, that certain aspects of our polity need radical change, i.e., the security state and our hegemonic ambitions, it will leave you with reservations.

But either way, even if you are on board with the policy gradualism, it leaves the change rhetoric seeming a bit empty.

Klein's article was such a joke, it should be required reading in any course that delves into the false choice.

And today's Krugman also takes Obama's unnamed supporters to task for hating Clinton too much.

The more popular Obama gets, and the more his victories involve support from an increasingly diverse base, the more we'll hear this empty bullshit about how his popularity is just a fad and/or that he isn't adequately wonkish or serious. I noticed that Hillary stressed how "serious" this election is last night in an interview with Katie Couric. The implication was clear: Go ahead and enjoy that charming guy Obama for the time being, but when you feel like being a serious, responsible grown-up you'll vote for me.

Won't be long before Hillary's campaign trots out the "Dated Obama, married Hillary" bumpersticker.

Steve Clemens has looked into this and wrote on his blog about how differently Obama and Clinton ran the subcommittees they chaired in the Senate last year (Clinton managed to find time to do a lot more substantive work while Obama was elsewhere).

Anyway, I agree it's a pretty silly argument but this is one that Karl Rove likes to bring up whenever he's interviewed and I suspect it will be a major theme in the fall.

I actually think they're both policy wonks and they're both charismatic. The fact that Obama is exceptionally charismatic in the campain speech format leads people unfairly to label Clinton as uncharismatic. The fact that Clinton comes across as exceptionally knowledgeable in the debate format leads people unfairly to label Obama as shallow.

Seeming not deeming.

And after I posted the above comment, I found this interesting Larison take. http://amconmag.com/larison/

Excellent post. I think Matthew encapsulated what many of us were thinking--it's frustrating to watch a new media meme develop without empirical basis.

When you hear Obama in discussions with editorial boards, which often make their meetings w/ him available in video or audio, he offers interesting positions that you never hear him speak about on the stump or in morning-show interviews -- which typically focus on "tough sounding" but frivolous questions about the horse race.

His discussion with the Baltimore Sun about why he'd have more influence in Saudi Arabia than Bush, whose family has deep ties to the royal family, is very interesting and something I've never heard him discuss before. It has to do with the fact that he'd have more credibility on the Arab street because he never supported the war. Hear it here:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bal-obamaaudio0210,0,6632123.mp3file

Whether you agree with it or not, it represents a fresh way of thinking about the Middle East that's not built on a bunker mentality or fears of tarnishing American exceptionalism. It's also a specific argument that Hillary couldn't make (she supported the war) or wouldn't make (because in her mind and in the crusty politics of old it's politically untenable to say you could cultivate some allegiance with the Arab street.)

Of course, the point the media is pickup up on is that Obama's campaign pitch is much less grounded in policy than Clinton's campaign pitch.

Folks may or may not find that important, but the genesis of this is no mystery.

The other dynamic at work here is that, in the primary, Obama has to base his case on vague process issues (e.g., "change," "new kind of politics," etc.) because there are not a lot of big substantive differences between them. Given her perceived advantages on experience and know-how, the only way he can make a credible case for himself is by going meta. In the general, he will be plenty specific.

Maybe there's a racial subtext, too, to the false idea that Obama gives rousing speeches, but doesn't know about policy. It stems from the prejudice that black people can be great performers, but not great intellects.

It works only with people who have an underlying level of prejudice and who aren't paying much attention to the campaign, but that's a lot of people. With exposure to Obama, though, I think this lazy reaction is receding.

Time is not on Hillary's side.

The only reason this even comes up is because the Clinton people know that Hillary's wonkery is the only thing she has going for her

I'm a bigtime Obama guy, but this is unfair. I've been very pleasantly surprised by how good a candidate Clinton is. She's weak at giving big set piece speeches, but she's very good in a debate (one area where she is clearly better than Obama) and also good in townhall style Q&A. In terms of her public face, I find her to be likeable...and not just "likeable enough"! Unfortunately, I find Penn, McCauliff, Wolfson, etc., to be loathesome and the style of her campaign (Rove-light) turns me off. And I think she may be the only thing short of another domestic terrorist attack capable of motivating a dispirited Republican base, albeit through no fault of her own. I think these are good reasons to support Obama, but none of it is a reason not to support her in November if she ends up winning.

So Hillary loses - obviously - the very silly "candidate I'd rather have a beer with" primary, and this is the - even more stupid - response of her campaign and supporters.

I guess people in Washington, and Nebraska, and Louisiana, and Maine - and the U.S. Virgin Islands, really like beer.

I know they do in DC, Virginia and Maryland, too.

Tomorrow should be pretty cool.

> The fact is that anyone who has educated him- or
> herself on the candidates' platforms by, say,
> reading them (readily available on each's web
> site) will see that both are chock-full of
> specifics, some workable, some not.

Candidate platforms published on web sites are absolutely and utterly useless as a guide to a candidate's knowledge and capability, and downright dangerous as a guide to what they will do in office. Actions speak 1000x louder than words, and the candidates' actual words in turn speak 1000x louder than any "platform papers". I would think we would have learned this lesson after "compassionate conservative" George W. Bush.

Cranky

Speculation all, but here goes...

1. I agree with MY's theory that it's hard to be "pretty and smart" or hard for people to process "pretty and smart" so they have to choose one or another. Bill Clinton is an exception, but there aren't too many of these.

2. Obama himself tends to emphasize big ideas over details. There have been glimpses of times when he bores people with details, so I think he can do it, but it's not the face he's putting forward.

3. Most speculative and pernicious is a theme people have hitherto seen in sports, especially basketball. That's the one where extremely able black basketball players get there through "talent" while extremely able white basketball players (esp. American ones) get there through "hard work". I'm not positive this is even true in sports, much less politics, but there may be a sense that people are simply not accustomed to seeing black policy wonks (or black doctors or engineers or scientists or economists). They are used to seeing black preachers, entertainers, and others who succeed in part through force of personality, and that's a more common lens for viewing black success.

I think Matt basically has it right. Because Obama is so good at the poetry aspects of campaigning, it is lazily assumed that he must not good at the prose aspects. This storyline helps the media in its compulsive need to split every issue or contest down the middle, and maintain the rationale for an exciting neck and neck horse race that it would like to prolong. On the other hand, perhaps it can't be helped since even Obama knows that the poetry is what is going to generate the most coverage.

I think the same dualism is at work in appraisals of Obama's debating skills. I suspect that if people had never heard Obama give a soaring speech, and had only heard him in debate, they would think he is quite a good debater, very well-versed in the policy differences among himself and his opponents, and able to argue effectively and persuasively for his positions. But since they have heard his soaring speeches, and since those speeches are so evidently impressive, the debate skills look less good in relative terms.

For too long the media has gotten away with easy stereotype that Clinton is the competent technocratic manager and canny legislative operator, while Obama is the skilled and inspiring orator. But really, Clinton has a very thin record of legislative accomplishment compared to Obama. And based on the management abilities that have been on display in this campaign, a campaign in which Clinton has squandered massive leads, made several notable blunders, and gone through some well-reported campaign shake-ups, we also see no evidence that Clinton is a better manager than Obama, whose campaign has been smooth and much more error-free.

I think pjs has a very good point. I don't know whether or not Obama really believes as this uplift stuff (which I find kind of annoying even though I support him). But, the fact is that he has a theme to wrap his campaign around. Hillary, on the other hand, doesn't have a strong theme other than her competence. Even then, she doesn't really have much to point to in terms of accomplishments. It really boils down to the fact that she seems competent, which indeed she does.

Given how long a campaign is, how many speeches they need to give, and how similar they are on the issues, it really is a good idea to have a meta narrative in which to frame the issues.

Watching them campaign, I honestly don't know how they do it. After 1 week, I would be so sick of hearing the sound of my own voice that I would be ready to give up.

Thanks, Matthew. This was the type of post I needed to wake up to!


If you think that having health insurance through your job means you won't have to pay Hillary's mandatory health insurance premiums - think again! According to a September 18 Associated Press article, Clinton said in an interview with the AP: "... she could envision a day when 'you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview -- like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination,' but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress." Go Obama!

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20070918-0856-clinton-apinterview.html

When his campaing first started it was criticized by everyone in the media as being too detailed in policy. Now that he has balanced the two he is somehow lacking? People need to wake up and realize that this supposedly unexperienced guy has run the best campaign by anyone this election against the toughest primary opponent one would expect and he's winning.

Right now Hillary looks like the one who isn't sure what to do.

JMS: Ugh, your point 3 is depressing. I can definitely see how Clinton is portrayed a scrappy overachiever with deceptive speed and a high football IQ while Obama is treated as a gifted athlete getting by an pure talent. I've been trying to avoid the race-centered analysis of the campaign because it's both facile and pernicious. But what you said has a ring of truth.

> If you think that having health insurance through
> your job means you won't have to pay Hillary's
> mandatory health insurance premiums - think again!

If you think that having membership in a health plan through your job up to 2007 means that you will have it in 2008 and beyond - think again! Many of my midsized clients are moving rapidly toward terminating all health benefits for their employees and increasing their dividend payouts so the owners can just buy themselves gold-plated individual plans. Too bad for the peons.

Cranky

I'm a bigtime Obama guy, but this is unfair. I've been very pleasantly surprised by how good a candidate Clinton is. She's weak at giving big set piece speeches, but she's very good in a debate (one area where she is clearly better than Obama) and also good in townhall style Q&A. In terms of her public face, I find her to be likeable...and not just "likeable enough"!

I agree 100%. From the few glimpses I had of Hillary when she ran for the Senate, I expected her to be a pathetic candidate, and so I thought her chances of getting the nomination were way overrated. It turns out I was right, but for the wrong reason. She has turned out to be a strong candidate, but she is up against the only thing that could beat her: a charismatic wine-track candidate who could get the black vote.

By the way, I saw clips of Hillary in a CNN biography from when she was younger, and when Bill first won the presidency. I was surprised how different she came across: a much stronger personality, much more "in your face", much more spontaneous. I find the younger non-politician Hillary to be extremely likable. Its unfortunate the way she has had to muzzle her real self in order to survive in politics.

Jim W's last comment is unusually insightful for this board. Hillary is an extremely well-disciplined, well-prepared candidate. It would be in her interest if she could arrange more debates with Obama.

The media has finally got its teeth into the Superdelegate travesty, and I eagerly await the same belated rumblings about the emptiness of Hillary's alleged policy superiority.

I have been saying for months that this party trick of hers - pulling numbers and mysterious-sounding bill names out of the air and brandishing them before those who don't know enough to call her bluff - is just so much calculated moron-baiting.

Thank you, Matthew Yglesias, for articulating that point with more patience and couth than I can muster.

The perception is driven by Clinton's superior debate performances and IA/NH town hall meeting performances. I don't think you have to believe Obama is stupid to be able to recognize that Hillary Clinton has a superior command of policy detail and of the combined interplay of the federal executive and legislative branches.

Obama is, I'm sure, tolerably well-versed in some things, an expert in a few, and a quick stufy for the rest. What he lacks is any sense that *any* of those issues, except for his flagship issue of Iraq and the possibility of future wars, is important enough not to be traded away in the interests of his obvious top issue, which is politics itself. On the issues, i.e. the outcomes of government, the Obama campaign is to a surprising extent a show about nothing. It's a show about the making of a show.

>So Hillary loses - obviously - the very silly "candidate I'd rather have a beer with" primary, and this is the - even more stupid - response of her campaign and supporters.

Obama should win Wisco by 2:1 if that's the case.

I agree with the dry_fish that the perception is driven by her superior debate performances. As for townhall meetings, I heard that they both do extremely well. I wonder why Obama has not done better in the debate format. I mean he is an attorney. Yes it true that he was never a trial attorney, but nonetheless you would think he would be Hillary's equal.

People only have to watch on cspan his policy speeches and roundtables on foreign policy to see that this is not exactly a shallow man.
He has his policy on the issues on his site.
I think it is due to laziness on the part of the press and the people in not bothering to check out facts before passing judgment.
You are correct Matt that everyone has completely ignored Obama's time in the Illinois senate and this has been a big source of frustration for his supporters.
What he did here in Illinois is quite impressive.
The fact that he was the president of the Law Review, a constitutional professor and did alot of really solid legislation here in Illinois would tip anyone off to the fact that Obama is quite deep and intellectual.
But, because of his newness in Washington, it's easy to just blow him off as a lightweight. Much like the press did with FDR in 1932.
I think it was Lippman who said A first class temperment with a third class mind.
But, at the same time, because Hillary was a dominate personality as first lady it is assumed she is well versed, a wonk and extreemly experienced though no one can quite point to anything that would back this impression up. What is on record is poor management and judgment skills but, it's never really discussed.

Rich--
What he lacks is any sense that *any* of those issues, except for his flagship issue of Iraq and the possibility of future wars, is important enough not to be traded away in the interests of his obvious top issue, which is politics itself.

This crappy meme has to stop NOW. Hillary has traded away what people assume are her core values on issue after issue. And for what? The foolish idea that by absorbing Republican policy she'll appear tougher? Just because Obama is respectful of Republicans doesn't mean he gives in. He hasn't on Iraq, Iran, waterboarding, flag-burning, government openness--all issues where Hillary has given in. Hillary is the one who trades away Democratic core values, which is why there have been so many people who have been in the "any nominee but Hillary" camp.

By the way, I saw clips of Hillary in a CNN biography from when she was younger, and when Bill first won the presidency. I was surprised how different she came across: a much stronger personality, much more "in your face", much more spontaneous. I find the younger non-politician Hillary to be extremely likable. Its unfortunate the way she has had to muzzle her real self in order to survive in politics.

Funny, I liked the young John Kerry as well, but really didn't care for the 2004 version.

Here's a crazy idea: maybe we should nominate great people before the machine grinds them down and they forget who they were when they first entered the process. That seems like it would be a really great thing. Like maybe during their first term in the Senate and still in their 40's...

Yep, seeing the meme about Obama lacking policy substance is almost as annoying as the meme where you all pretend Hillary is a racist.

I just got off the phone with Barack, and couldn't help but remember your words, which I'd just read.

That is one smart man. Of course, he was speaking to well-educated Democrats abroad, so he didn't avoid using words like "paradigm." Still, I think this issue of him being "light" on the issues is as you said, just nonsense.

If only he weren't so good looking. Maybe then people would take him seriously.

A lot of good points here. Brad DeLong, who worked with her in the original healthcare fiasco, said that no one involved thinks she has a "command of policy detail."

Rich writes:

Obama is, I'm sure, tolerably well-versed in some things, an expert in a few, and a quick stufy for the rest. What he lacks is any sense that *any* of those issues, except for his flagship issue of Iraq and the possibility of future wars, is important enough not to be traded away in the interests of his obvious top issue, which is politics itself. On the issues, i.e. the outcomes of government, the Obama campaign is to a surprising extent a show about nothing. It's a show about the making of a show.

I'm sure you can't be writing this with a straight face. The Clintons are masters of throwing principle under the bus in pursuit of political ends. Anyone remember why we have "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?"

It is this insistence on "details" that causes Sen Clinton to sow distrust. Anyone not born yesterday knows that "details" thrown out into a campaign are merely to curry favor with narrow interests.

Who do you think would be best prepared to deal with a veto-proof congress? Someone with a mastery of the "details" or someone who can inspire the public and our other public servants to remember that principles are indeed the basis of good policy -- not whether you can spread the pork around to all 50 states.

Pointed here by the Opinionator at the Times.

Pssst, they stole your column.

I think the experience card, albeit flawed, played early by Camp Clinton, evolved somehow into this.

Whether it is conscious or sub-conscious I don't really know.

But Obama has accomplished lots, he has a complete platform, and he can speak from the heart too, and not duplicitously like Hill-Billy, the dual-core candidate.

Pointed here by the Opinionator at the Times.

Pssst, they stole your column.

I think the experience card, albeit flawed, played early by Camp Clinton, evolved somehow into this.

Whether it is conscious or sub-conscious I don't really know.

But Obama has accomplished lots, he has a complete platform, and he can speak from the heart too, and not duplicitously like Hill-Billy, the dual-core candidate.

When I was on a law firm recruiting committee, we emphasized personal traits over smarts, not because smarts weren't important, but because all the people we interviewed were smart - they had to be (academically-accomplished with some extra-curriculars) to get into the interview in the first place. (Isn't this also the way elite universities choose between hundreds of valedictorians and super-accomplished students from elite preps and high schools?) Obviously, neither Obama nor Hillary are policy lightweights by any measure (and compared to Bush and even McCain they're freaking Einsteins), so why not look at other factors?

Which leads to two other observations. First, assume that Hillary does have an edge in policy smarts (which seems to be a safe assumption, she may even be smarter on policy than Gore or Bill - she's definitely ahead of Kerry), what does that mean at the end of the day? Will our battles be won or lost on debating points? - "Hillary ran circles around Republicans who finally cried 'Uncle' because they simply couldn't match her policy expertise" vs. "Obama's X bill died in the House when Republicans tripped him up on an obscure provision that he failed to understand in sufficient detail before incorporating it into the bill and cried "Gotcha!"." I don't think so.

Second, there's the bit that Hillary's a fighter, while Obama may be too conciliatory. This is a fair cop, but it cuts both ways - he may compromise too soon, she may not compromise soon enough. (I don't want to get too Pro-Bama here, but I've read a few things that indicate that his conciliatory approach worked in Springfield, while, off the top of my head, I can't think of any "fights" Hillary's won.)

Specifically as to fighting, the word "fight" is an inexact metaphor, but somewhat instructive. Obviously, neither Hillary nor Obama will win battles in Congress through fisticuffs (this ain't the 19th Century - yet). I think what Hillary means is that she will work relentlessly to achieve her goals, which is another way of saying that she's not lazy, and that her entire career is evidence that she cares deeply about issues important to liberals. Granted, but Obama can say basically the same thing.

Also, in street fights, it's not uncommon for both fighters to lose. Don't get me wrong - if the best we can hope for is that at the end of the day a bloodied Hillary and Obama will still be able to say "You should see the other guy," it beats the hell out of where we are now. Still, to win decisively, or, more to the point, to have a chance to win decisively, strategy will be key.

Finally, in response to Krugman's column today, I'm an Obamaniac, and I hope that nothing I've said here hurts Paul's, or anyone else's, feelings. I will gladly pull the lever for Hillary in November if she's the nominee. I think the long campaign has made her a much better candidate for the general election. As weird as it will be to vote in a Texas primary that means something, even weirder is the fact that I won't be pulling the lever for the lesser of two evils, but for the better of two damn good candidates.

THANK YOU!!!

There have been a lot of good reasons given here, but might I suggest one more. I think that some people confuse Obama with Obama supporters -- particularly those on comment threads. And I'm struck by how many times I read a thread in the lefty blogosphere in which, in answer to a policy question or challenge, the response is, "Go read the website." I'm always left wondering if the person in question actually knows what his policies are. Quite possibly unfair, I know. There was also that piece on TPM about a training session for Obama supporters that specifically instructed them not to talk about policy but to direct voters to the website and instead talk about their own stories of why they're drawn to Obama. That might not be widespread at all, and might indeed have been the idea of that specific trainer -- but once this stuff gets into the ether, it creates the impression that Obama himself does not have detailed policies. Also, along the same lines, it becomes clear that there's a subset of Obama supporters who honestly don't care what his policies are -- those who claim their alternative is McCain. So perhaps the problem here is the way Obama is represented, as opposed to Obama himself.

"Nor is the University of Chicago Law School in the habit of handing out teaching positions to dullards."

Obama was an adjunct there. That's a part-time, bottom-of-the-totem-pole teaching position. Not exactly an impressive qualification for the Leader of the Free World.

"The various smart people working with him on a whole variety of issues -- starting with Samantha Power and Karen Kornbluh when he first got to the Senate and expanding ever since -- don't have any really compelling reasons to have been working with him unless they thought he was a smart, impressive person who was up to the task of doing a good job on the issues they care the most about."

Matt, you're smarter than this. Like all policy experts, Power et.al. were attracted to Obama because he seemed like a Senator who was going places. He had been an "It" guy since he gave the 2004 convention speech.

Juan: Cass Sunstein of U.Chicago has said that they wanted to offer Obama a tenure-track faculty position, but he declined so he could pursue politics.
See: http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article

And it's not like he was teaching the first-year brief writing class. He was teaching con law and election law, some weighty topics.

I've been very pleasantly surprised by how good a candidate Clinton is.

She's better than her campaign. Much better. As I said elsethread, if she could break out from it, the effect would be noticeable. Instead, I think she's going to lose, and I don't think that's a bad thing in the long term, because it will liberate her from the hangers-on (and even, to some extent, from Bill in terms of political style).

She'd be a good Senate majority leader.

"Obama was an adjunct there. That's a part-time, bottom-of-the-totem-pole teaching position. Not exactly an impressive qualification for the Leader of the Free World."

Fair enough, but I don't see why this observation about adjuncts somehow invalidates MY's point. I haven't researched the question, but all his being an adjunct teacher might mean is that he just wasn't interested in being a career academic, perhaps because he wanted to pursue a career as a practicing attorney. Those are quite distinct career paths, and almost no one anymore manages to do both. (I hear law schools could use more professors with practical experience, anyway.)

So his being an adjunct doesn't automatically mean that he has a defective intellect, much less that Chicago Law really IS handing out teaching assignments to dullards. Unless you know something that the rest of us don't?

"Obama was an adjunct there. That's a part-time, bottom-of-the-totem-pole teaching position. Not exactly an impressive qualification for the Leader of the Free World."

Fair enough, but I don't see why this observation about adjuncts somehow invalidates MY's point. I haven't researched the question, but all his being an adjunct teacher might mean is that he just wasn't interested in being a career academic, perhaps because he wanted to pursue a career as a practicing attorney. Those are quite distinct career paths, and almost no one anymore manages to do both. (I hear law schools could use more professors with practical experience, anyway.)

So his being an adjunct doesn't automatically mean that he has a defective intellect, much less that Chicago Law really IS handing out teaching assignments to dullards. Unless you know something that the rest of us don't?

(1) Sorry for the double post.
(2) What nbt said.

Just to correct a factual error above: Obama's title at Chicago was "Senior Lecturer in Law". Incidentally, it is the same title held by, among others, Judges Richard Posner, Frank Easterbrook, and Diane Wood.

Yes, the Law of Conservation of Virtues is proven false by Bill Clinton, who doesn't lack a single virtue.

Anybody who has seen Obama in a townhall setting answering tough questions from voters knows he's a tremendous policy wonk, the best we've had since Bill Clinton and quite possibly better.

Watching Obama in some of the debates and listening to him speak, I too get the sense that he is very comfortable with policy details. However, I sense that he has too much respect for those details and their nuances to snowball us with facts and figures as Clinton is known to do. I believe that that this reflects strongly on his character.

Obama does not jump at each and every opportunity to pander to the crowd with "I will help __ million people get jobs" or "I will spend $__ billion on this program." The reality is that these figures are nothing more than big numbers...they do not reflect the complexities involved in policies once they are subjected to Congress, public debate and the real world. I believe that Clinton's comfort in spewing forth these types of figures in the debates reflects a lack of respect for these complexities and a willingness to say anything to impress voters with her knowledge.

Obama's approach, while less powerful in a debate setting, reflects his thoughtful consideration of the issues.

Obama was an adjunct there. That's a part-time, bottom-of-the-totem-pole teaching position. Not exactly an impressive qualification for the Leader of the Free World.

Actually, he was a senior lecturer and shares that title with, among others, Frank Easterbrook and Richard Posner - not exactly bottom-of-the-barrel names in the legal world. As Brian surmised above, the senior lecturer position is for teaching staff who are not on tenure track and usually have other jobs (State Senate for Obama, 7th Circuit for Easterbrook and Posner). As a student of Obama's at Chicago I can vouch for the fact that our senior lecturers are pretty much all exceptional legal minds, and that Obama is no exception. Had he wanted a career in academia it was his for the taking.

Rivers, I'd like to respond to your comment about the TPM post - the story about what the Obama campaign told the individuals who volunteered to make phone calls and canvass.

I live in Georgia, a state that voted on Super Tuesday. I went down to the Obama campaign headquarters in Atlanta on Sunday and volunteered to canvass. I too, was told by the Obama Campaign Trainer not to get into policy discussions with potential voters. The main purpose of the canvassing was was to identify Obama supporters and ask them if they were interested in volunteering for the campaign. It was not to persuade people to vote for Obama. We were also asked to get to as many voters as possible and drum up volunteers. Our "script" to the voter was: When you vote on February 5th - who will you be voting for? If the answer was "Hillary," we were to say thank you and turn away. If the answer was "undecided," we were to ask the individual to please consider Obama and we handed them a brochure and asked them to check out the website or call the local campaign headquarters if they had specific questions. We were instructed not to get into policy or issue discussions unless we were well versed in the issue. I personally believe that most volunteers aren't politicians and don't have the temperament and/or the knowledge to get into a heated or detailed discussion. But once again, the goal of the canvassing was to get additional Obama campaign volunteers and get to as many voters as possible.

"Nor is the University of Chicago Law School in the habit of handing out teaching positions to dullards"

Matt is on a roll.

For the first time in my life, I heard a Presidential Candidate say the words "I told myself I wouldn't cry." Enough said. Go Obama.

I am surprised you have heard anything negative about Obama out there, but I know you are very well informed so have dug into the little, less well known venues of thought that I have not.
I thought the general conclusion about Obama's policies were that they are much like Hillary's, maybe a little less finely tuned. But certainly you would agree that his campaign has not been ABOUT policy, it has been about how he will deliver policy in a different way. This is where he is, and remains, vague.
Listen to any of his speeches and ask yourself, how could this happen? Does he really believe that he is so compelling and hard to resist that people who fundamentally disagree with his whole frame of reference will just listen to him and see the error of his ways? This is what he seems to be conveying. I see no other way for policy to happen without taking strong stands and backing them up with authority and power. He makes it sound like this is immoral, that there is some other way to make policy happen, but what is it? Has he ever done it? Has he ever seen it work?
FDR was devisive. Ronald Reagan was devisive. But their sides won because they held strong and wielded power and did not give in.
Hands across the aisle is great, but it will not make mandated universal health care happen. Do you really believe it can? Its like everyone expects the opposition to just fold and give in to Obama's obvious and unmitigated goodness and light. How can that happen? If he can tell me, I may even vote for him. I would love to see it happen. But I cannot vote for it simply on faith that he can make it work. Obama hasn't earned credibility on this. He is preaching to the choir and they don't have to listen to anything anyone else says because they love their preacher. This is really scary to me. To me, it sounds like disaster.
This is a hugely complicated and volitile world we live in today. The ability of the President of the United States to navigate so much nuance and complexity will have huge consequences for both the US and the entire world. Obama is a rookie. Can a rookie just step in clean up this mess? Is it really that simple? My answer to this question is no.

I am surprised you have heard anything negative about Obama out there, but I know you are very well informed so have dug into the little, less well known venues of thought that I have not.
I thought the general conclusion about Obama's policies were that they are much like Hillary's, maybe a little less finely tuned. But certainly you would agree that his campaign has not been ABOUT policy, it has been about how he will deliver policy in a different way. This is where he is, and remains, vague.
Listen to any of his speeches and ask yourself, how could this happen? Does he really believe that he is so compelling and hard to resist that people who fundamentally disagree with his whole frame of reference will just listen to him and see the error of his ways? This is what he seems to be conveying. I see no other way for policy to happen without taking strong stands and backing them up with authority and power. He makes it sound like this is immoral, that there is some other way to make policy happen, but what is it? Has he ever done it? Has he ever seen it work?
FDR was devisive. Ronald Reagan was devisive. But their sides won because they held strong and wielded power and did not give in.
Hands across the aisle is great, but it will not make mandated universal health care happen. Do you really believe it can? Its like everyone expects the opposition to just fold and give in to Obama's obvious and unmitigated goodness and light. How can that happen? If he can tell me, I may even vote for him. I would love to see it happen. But I cannot vote for it simply on faith that he can make it work. Obama hasn't earned credibility on this. He is preaching to the choir and they don't have to listen to anything anyone else says because they love their preacher. This is really scary to me. To me, it sounds like disaster.
This is a hugely complicated and volitile world we live in today. The ability of the President of the United States to navigate so much nuance and complexity will have huge consequences for both the US and the entire world. Obama is a rookie. Can a rookie just step in clean up this mess? Is it really that simple? My answer to this question is no.

CHudson wrote:

"This is a hugely complicated and volitile world we live in today. The ability of the President of the United States to navigate so much nuance and complexity will have huge consequences for both the US and the entire world. Obama is a rookie. Can a rookie just step in clean up this mess? Is it really that simple? My answer to this question is no."

Are you suggesting Hillary is not a rookie? If you consider her to not be, is the basis her husbands' Presidency? Being drug along by your (just for show) husbands' coattails doesn't justify anything less than Rookie status in my book.

CHudson wrote:

"This is a hugely complicated and volitile world we live in today. The ability of the President of the United States to navigate so much nuance and complexity will have huge consequences for both the US and the entire world. Obama is a rookie. Can a rookie just step in clean up this mess? Is it really that simple? My answer to this question is no."

Are you suggesting Hillary is not a rookie? If you consider her to not be, is the basis her husbands' Presidency? Being drug along by your (just for show) husbands' coattails doesn't justify anything less than Rookie status in my book.

It's clear that an experienced politician like Clinton should have no problem defeating an inexperienced rookie like Obama during the primary campaign.

Blasphemy,

Quite awhile back, I was watching a political talk show on TV and they suggested Hillary would make a great Senate Majority Leader because everyone comes to her for advice. So, there's your answer.

Great post Matt....

The fact is that in his short 3 years in the Senate, Obama has authored and co-authored an impressive list of legislation - working across party lines with Republican senators McCain, Coburn, Lugar, etc.
He has also held public office longer than Hillary Clinton, and - as you point out - his record in the Illinois State Senate is not "chopped liver".
I would like to see him speak about this more, particularly during the national debates, when his lack of experience and "readiness" are Hillary's main talking points.

I realize how sophisticated we all are, but I have this weird idea that what a Presidential candidate says in speeches matters, especially when it leads a multitude to become ecstatic. After all, it is Obama who asks us to get over our cynicism. And when I read the comments of his most avid supporters, it is the slogans that seem to matter the most to them. The nature of his movement matters - doesn't it? So I'm working on getting over my sarcasm, and I'm realizing that his themes are not as nonsensical as they at first appear to be.
It's true that "this time will be different" when I consider that every time is different from every other time. And I don't really support change that I don't believe in, so I support "change you can believe in". I'm certainly not against hope either. I could go on and on, but my head would explode. From now on it's President Obama. Just don't tell me this is the new politics; it looks an awful lot like old politics. Yes we can...whatever. I'm told to check out his website. It's just as vague as the old politics requires to get elected. I'm told by his progressive supporters to "trust" that he may turn out to be a progressive after he is in office. Sure, no problem.

Oh, I forgot to mention how Obama has inspired me to rise above the partisan wrangling of Democrats and Republicans too. Obama is right, divisiveness has been the whole problem for the last 8 years. Forget about fighting for those old core Democratic issues and get along in the new post-partisan era. Inspiration is all. Unity.

Oh, I forgot to mention how Obama has inspired me to rise above the partisan wrangling of Democrats and Republicans too. Obama is right, divisiveness has been the whole problem for the last 8 years. Forget about fighting for those old core Democratic values and get along in the new post-partisan era. Inspiration is all. Unity.

Daniel Larison has an interesting response to this over at American Conservative (which is one of the few bastions of rational conservative thought):

Yglesias challenges the criticism that Obama is not wonkish or detail-oriented enough, and makes one of the better arguments on this point that I’ve seen:

Unlike dynasts like George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton or ex-veeps like George H.W. Bush or Al Gore, Obama hasn’t had the luxury of simply inheriting a vast apparatus by default, he’s had to build it himself. That’s hard to do if experts come away from talking with you worried that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I have criticised Obama in these terms, particularly with respect to the speeches that everyone else seems to find so deeply stirring and impressive, noting that these speeches are largely devoid of content. Arguably, Obama can be wonkish and detail-oriented, and he has demonstrated some of this during the debates. Yet many observers have noticed that Obama can either be inspiring in his gaseous, empty hopemongering in his major speeches or he can be more substantive and rather dull in his delivery on the stump or in a debate. You might say that different venues require different kinds of rhetoric, and different occasions call for different kinds of answers, which may be true, but I think what Yglesias misses is that the criticism he is answering is not aimed at Obama’s intelligence and knowledge as much as it is at the intelligence and standards of Obama’s audience. That is, Obama is rallying millions of people behind him not on the strength or quality of his policy ideas, about which many of his supporters haven’t the first clue, but by throwing out insubstantial boilerplate about change and transformation. It is Obama the orator, not Obama the former law school professor, who has made the campaign the success that it is, so while Obama may be personally well-versed in policy details he does best as a candidate and secures the level of support he does through oratory that “uplifts” and actually says very little. You could say that this is true of most supporters of all candidates, but the degree to which Obama wins over voters through sheer “uplift” is so much greater that it stands out as unique in this cycle.

Ultimately, whether or not he is capable of being wonkish is almost beside the point, and it may be a liability for national candidates, especially “change” candidates, to app