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Obama, the War, and the Opportunity

14 Feb 2008 03:22 pm

Michael Crowley, author of the best dissection of Hillary Clinton's support for the 2002 Iraq AUMF (one of about a million TNR articles that seem to be missing from their web archives [UPDATE: here it is]), has a great new piece up about Barack Obama's record on the war. Here's the bottom line:

Many of the Clintons' specific attacks on Obama are unfair distortions. But it's also true that a close look at his Iraq record reveals more nuance than the Obama campaign acknowledges. It shows that Obama is cautious and pragmatic, hardly immune from political pressures, and sometimes prone to shading his rhetoric for convenience. But, ultimately, in substantive policy terms, he is also open to intellectual reexamination based on changing events. This may not be quite the Obama of the popular imagination, and it is certainly not the Obama of his own campaign ads. Nor is it, after 2002, substantially different from Hillary Clinton's own course on Iraq. But it is no "fairy tale," either.

I'm less interested, however, in the past for its own sake than I am in the past for what it makes possible in the future. I don't know if you've heard, but I wrote a book, Heads in the Sand that will be out in April. It's about the causes and consequences of the Democratic Party's failure to present a coherent strategic alternative to the Bush foreign policy in the post-9/11 world.

One observation I make is that a record of support for the war resolution makes it difficult to present such an alternative. John Kerry, for example, would now and again start making a very compelling argument about Iraq as strategic distraction that undermined our ability to combat al-Qaeda. I remember watching the first Bush-Kerry debate with friends and the thrill that overtook the room at what I think was Kerry's best moment of the entire campaign:

Jim, the president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, "The enemy attacked us."

Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al Qaida attacked us. And when we had Osama bin Laden cornered in the mountains of Tora Bora, 1,000 of his cohorts with him in those mountains. With the American military forces nearby and in the field, we didn't use the best trained troops in the world to go kill the world's number one criminal and terrorist.

Unfortunately, this line of argument couldn't really be made central to Kerry's campaign because, after all, Kerry had voted for the war resolution and Kerry was so determined to rebut the flip-flopper charge that he didn't dare just say he'd made a mistake. So he switched back over time to less compelling arguments about implementation, nitpicking about the details of the inspections process, etc.

Now of course there's more to an alternative strategy than just that. There are several different questions in play -- unilateral preventive war or multilateral arms control as the preferred method of pursuing non-proliferation policy, an ever-expanding "war on terror" or a narrowly focused campaign against al-Qaeda, an effort to coercively reshape political institutions throughout the Muslim world or an effort to distance ourselves somewhat from unpopular regimes, a full-throttle assertion of US military hegemony or an effort to use our power to build and sustain a liberal world order. But Iraq stands at the intersection of a lot of these issues, and it's a lot easier to make the case for a different approach if you can credibly put distance between yourself and Iraq and, of course, having reached a different conclusion about Iraq is at least imperfect evidence that the person in question actually believes in a different strategy.

To tie this back to the campaign, Obama hasn't yet said or done everything that I'd like to see him do by any means. He has, however, done some things. And he's repeatedly suggested a desire to wage that kind of campaign against John McCain. Clinton, by contrast, has shown a real fondness for opportunistic digs and indicated that her view is that she'll do better at arguing with McCain about security because she's more hawkish. But both candidates have given some positive indications and some negative ones, and both of them can and should do more -- the competition between them has been disappointingly free of anything even resembling an argument about doctrine. Thus far, though, Obama's approach shows more promise, and their different stances are an important reason why.

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Comments (43)

According to his website, Obama wants to:

- Increase the size of the U.S. military (65,000 more soldiers; 27,000 more Marines; new equipment, armor, training and skills; new equipment for the National Guard and the Reserves, and unspecified additional military "investments.")

- Maintain a military presence of unspecified size in Iraq for an unspecified duration, including troops to "protect American diplomatic and military personnel" and to "continue striking at Al Qaeda." He also "reserves the right" to "intervene" in Iraq to "provide civilians with a safe haven" from genocide.

- Send "at least" two combat brigades into Afghanistan.

He's also alluded vaguely to spending unspecified sums of money on non-military aid and assistance to Iraq.

But, ultimately, in substantive policy terms, he is also open to intellectual reexamination based on changing events.

Boy, wouldn't that be nice for a change?
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"...Kerry was so determined to rebut the flip-flopper charge that he didn't dare just say he'd made a mistake. So he switched back over time to less compelling arguments about implementation, nitpicking about the details of the inspections process, etc."

I remember thinking after Kerry lost that his attempt to explain his war vote was one of the most disappointing aspects of the campaign. As I watch the current Democratic primary unfold, Hillary is doing the same type of nitpicking about what the original war vote "meant". When I watch her try to explain it, I get the same uneasy feeling.

Clinton's problem goes way beyond the war-resolution vote. She is one of the most hawkish Dems and has advisors exclusively from the most hawkish segment of the Democratic foreign-policy establishment. Basically, to put it a bit cruelly but not too unfairly, she's McCain Lite. There's no way she can draw the kinds of sharp contrasts between herself and McCain that Obama can draw. That's one of the reason why she' an extremely risky GE candidate. (And not the kind of President we need to carry out the badly needed rethinking of our foreign policy, either.)

Anything is better than "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" and someone who touts her experience yet was bamboozled by the flight-suited, cod-pieced sub-moron chimp into breaking Iraq, breaking the military and pissing on the Constitution.

Obama wins by default, or, as someone else put it, he is the least likely to do or let happen something catastrophic.

I can see why you dump on the democreats, but it was the republicans day in the sun. The country wanted War. This goes beyond the democrats and republicans, its an issue for Main Street USA. Americans can only loook to themselves for for an explanation of the Iraq adventure.
At the time, republicans were better politicians than the democrats. Bush has generally implemented his policies, he is a successful politician in that regard. His policies were wrong, so he is not a statesman.

I can see why you dump on the democreats, but it was the republicans day in the sun. The country wanted War. This goes beyond the democrats and republicans, its an issue for Main Street USA. Americans can only loook to themselves for for an explanation of the Iraq adventure.
At the time, republicans were better politicians than the democrats. Bush has generally implemented his policies, he is a successful politician in that regard. His policies were wrong, so he is not a statesman.

P.S. Obama is, of course, very far from perfect, as Mixner reminds us. But he's the better of the two and about as good as it gets in the current, badly flawed mainstream of the party.

Is this fantasy land?

The American electorate isn't the membership of MoveOn.org. A lot of the American electorate is conservative and hawkish. Most happen to want the troops out of Iraq but don't mistake that for a fundamentally anti-war electorate. Only four years ago many of these same voters chose Bush. If you all try to run a McGovern 1972 campaign you'll get McGovern 1972 results.

"But both candidates have given some positive indications and some negative ones, and both of them can and should do more -- the competition between them has been disappointingly free of anything even resembling an argument about doctrine."

How nonsensical of you. Obama voted against the Iraq War. This in itself makes him much more appealing than Clinton could ever be. This is one of principal arguments for his candidacy and why he should be President.

Tim K seems to think we're talking about Kucinich. Perhaps he should put on his glasses so he can read the names actually under discussion.

Tim K,

Are you paid to write this drivel?

Steve Labonne,

Since you and many other lefties here so often talk as if you do represent the mainstream of the party, and even the mainstream of the country, it's useful to give you a reality check on just how extreme and out of touch you really are.

The level of devotion to Obama by those here who routinely characterize the Republicans as only slightly less evil than Satan is all the more mystifying considering how centrist Obama is overall and how he keeps harping on the importance of bipartisanship and transcending party divisions.

Obama hasn't yet said or done everything that I'd like to see him do by any means.

Cultist.
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Matt,

Is there any chance that you could get off the Obama talk for a while? I don't know if I speak for anyone else, but I'm simply tired of it. I feel like the vast majority of your excellent commentary is about Obama, or alternatively, why [insert McCain or Hilary] isn't as good as Obama. Fine, we get it. You've endorsed Obama enthusiastically. So are you going to campaign for him, or are you going to discuss issues that are of greater relevance than whether or not people dislike Obama for his supposed lack of policy proposals?

Isn't there anything you have to say about the Contempt vote in the House that the GOP walked out on?

What about the Senate's admonishment
of Larry Craig?

This shouldn't be interpreted as a slam against any candidate, but simply a request to talk about something other than pre-pre-presidential electoral politics.

Thank you for your consideration.

but it was the republicans day in the sun. The country wanted War.

The public was very receptive to war against the Taliban. However, feelings were much more mixed and cautious when it came to Iraq. That's why there was such a relentless propoganda campaign building up the threat of Saddam Hussein and the ridiculous attempt to make the war seem legitimate by going before the UN. The Democrats might not have been able to prevent the Bush administration's stupid and reckless decision to go to war in Iraq, but they could have done a lot more. People like Clinton, Edwards, Gephardt, Kerry all pretended to swallow the administration's lies about Iraq rather than following the independent, critical path of folks like Graham, Byrd, and Durbin.

I still believe that in the debates when Bush said they attacked us that Kerry should have immediately stopped everything and demand that Bush apologize to the American people for deliberately lying to them. When Bush would refuse Kerry should have ended the debate and said i will not debate with a liar and walked off the stage. From that point on he should have made the point every time he spoke that he would resume the debates when Bush apologized for lying to the American people.

Mixner, that was an articulate and admirably grammatically-correct post. It does, however, have nothing to do with the incoherent drivel written by Tim K and Labonne's on-point attack on it.

Meanwhile, enjoy your party nominating a candidate who's mindless shilling for a war that the rest of the USA wants out of. Good luck with that, you out-of-touch right-wing fringe lunatic.

Jeez, say something positive about a concern troll's comment and look at the thanks you get. ;)

TLM- Obama never voted against the war. He wasn't a Senator yet. He spoke out against the war as a state Senator, a slight but also quite substantive difference.

Jeez, say something positive about a concern troll's comment and look at the thanks you get. ;)

Yep. We can't vote for Obama unless we act like he claims to be but somehow isn't.

Or something.

I don't know if that was a "concern troll," but it's definitely stupid enough to be a conservative.
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Josh, what you mentioned are problems, but they can be easily fixed once Barack becomes President. That's why we must concentrate on electing Obama first and the other problems will be quickly fixed on their own.

Unfortunately, this line of argument couldn't really be made central to Kerry's campaign because, after all, Kerry had voted for the war resolution and Kerry was so determined to rebut the flip-flopper charge that he didn't dare just say he'd made a mistake.

No, I think the reason this line of argument didn't make it into the campaign is that some pollster came to Kerry and said "Senator Kerry, it turns out that at least 40% of Americans can't tell the difference among Osama, Saddama, Ali Baba, Ibn Battuta, Alladin, Saladin, or Lawrence of Arabia, and when you say that Saddam didn't attack us they think you are a dangerous peacenik radical who is completely clueless about the Great Towelhead Menace."

"- Increase the size of the U.S. military (65,000 more soldiers; 27,000 more Marines; new equipment, armor, training and skills; new equipment for the National Guard and the Reserves, and unspecified additional military "investments.")

- Maintain a military presence of unspecified size in Iraq for an unspecified duration, including troops to "protect American diplomatic and military personnel" and to "continue striking at Al Qaeda." He also "reserves the right" to "intervene" in Iraq to "provide civilians with a safe haven" from genocide.

- Send "at least" two combat brigades into Afghanistan.

He's also alluded vaguely to spending unspecified sums of money on non-military aid and assistance to Iraq. "

Mixner,

How do these goals contradict Obama's position that we should end the 0CCUPATION of Iraq by our nearly 150,000 troops? Moreover, I don't understand why an alleged super patriot like you is critical of such positions

1)Increasing the size of our military and rebuidling it is absolutely vital, especially since Bush/Cheney disastrous occupation policy, along with McCain's surge, has substantially wrecked our military. Are you such a blind partisan lacking in true patriotism that you rather have a Democrat do nothing to undo the damage that a Republican president has done to our military?

2)You Republicans are always warning about the devasting consequences of a complete withdrawal from Iraq. Aren't you happy to see that while Obama believes that an indefinite, long-term, full scale occupation of Iraq does more harm than good to both the US and to Iraq, he does see the value of maintaining just enough military presence in the area to deal with any future problems (such as a resurgency by Al Qaeda)in Iraq that are best handled through short-term American military intervention?

3)Sending troops into Afghanistan, where Al-Qaeda is threatening to make a resurgence, is vitally necessary to our national security. Aren't you happy that Obama is not going to abandon the war against Al-Qaeda, but is instead going to redirect our military toward fighting it more effectively?

4)The Iraqi civil war is not going to be solved by our military power; it ultimately depends upon the Iraqis reaching a political solution to their sectarian troubls. An indefinite, long-term, full scale occupation by the American military will not bring out this state of affairs. On the other hand, soft power can play a role in motivating the Iraqis to reach this solution, which is where non-military aid & assistance will come into play.

So I ask you again, Mixner, how does these positions contradict Obama's goal of ending our occupation of Iraq? If anything, there are the logical actions a President would take in the aftermath of ending the occupation of Iraq.

I guess after 7 years of Bush that you have forgotten what logical, pragmatic, forward-looking, long-term, strategic thinking looks like.

Unlike Obama, at least Kucinich speaks plainly.

Obama, unlike Kerry, McGovern, Dukakis, Gore...is shrewd and persuasive. And, I think he understands that the voting public is amenable to a foreign policy that doesn't reek of #1 McCain backer Joe Lieberman. In some undefined way, I really believe that a huge swath of Americans understand on a gut level that Lieberman/MacCain's vision of the world is dangerous, disastrous folly. And, that Obama has what it takes to make that point resonate.

eltoro,

How do these goals contradict Obama's position that we should end the 0CCUPATION of Iraq by our nearly 150,000 troops?

That's not his position. Read my post. Obama wants to maintain a military presence of unspecified size in Iraq for an indefinite duration, including troops to "continue striking at Al Qaeda." And possibly a much larger force to "provide civilians with a safe haven" from genocide.

Moreover, I don't understand why an alleged super patriot like you is critical of such positions

I'm pointing out how inconsistent Obama's militarism is with the views of you surrender monkeys.

1)Increasing the size of our military and rebuidling it is absolutely vital,

Is it? Gee, and just last week, I was being told right here "Shock! Horror! Our military is bigger than those of every other country combined! That's outrageous! We need butter, not guns!" Now, you're telling me you want the guns after all? Who knew?

One of the many pathologies of the far left is its schizophrenia.

"Obama wants to maintain a military presence of unspecified size in Iraq for an indefinite duration, including troops to "continue striking at Al Qaeda.""

Mixner, I suggest you read Barack's webpage. He said, he will "have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months." You don't have to worry about Barack leaving troops in Iraq indefinitely with a President Obama.

TLM - MACV was the "Military Assistance Command, Vietnam". That was the thousands of non-combat troops that were in Vietnam before Feb, 1965, training South Vietnamese troops.

When Obama talks about removing combat brigades, he isn't talking about withdrawing a modern day MACI.

TLM,

You're the one who thought Obama "voted against" the Iraq War, aren't you? You're very poorly informed. You need to read Obama's statements more carefully. His website goes on to say:

[Obama] will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

He expands on this in his "IraqFactSheet:"

Residual Force to Remain: Under the Obama plan, American troops may remain in Iraq or the region. These American troops will protect American diplomatic and military personnel in Iraq, and continue striking at al Qaeda in Iraq. If Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we would also continue training the Iraqi Security Forces. In the event of an outbreak of genocide, we would reserve the right to intervene, with the international community, if that intervention was needed to provide civilians with a safehaven.

He gives no troop numbers or timetable for withdrawal of this "residual force," or any numbers for his potential "intervention" against genocide. McCain's not the only one contemplating a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq.

Obama wants to maintain a military presence of unspecified size in Iraq for an indefinite duration

That's a pretty misleading statement. "Unspecified size" is substantially less than than the 160,000 troops in Iraq today and removal of all combat brigades implies the removal of all their support groups as well.

Obama: ... I am committed to getting all of our combat troops out by 16 months. So he can say first year. I've said 16 months based on what the generals and commanders tell me can be done. And we are going to have still, I believe, the need to have some forces that are available to go after terrorist bases should they emerge in Iraq. Now if he doesn't think that's an important function, then I'm happy to have that debate. But be perfectly clear, I will bring this war to an end as quickly as can be done with the safety of the troops in mind, and my belief is that we can get that done in 16 months.

Send "at least" two combat brigades into Afghanistan

Obama never claimed to be anti-war. He claims to be anti-Iraq-war. A major part of his argument against the Iraq mission was the fact that we were already at war against an enemy that had actually attacked us and that the invasion of Iraq has jeopardized our efforts in Afghanistan.

Your best post on this topic, and if the Democratic party wasn't enthralled with baby boomer political consultants, they might have made Kerry's point a winning strategy and gotten us out of this stinking Iraq mess.

That's a pretty misleading statement. "Unspecified size" is substantially less than than the 160,000 troops in Iraq today and removal of all combat brigades implies the removal of all their support groups as well.

No it doesn't. The support troops may be "redeployed" for the other purposes Obama has in mind for U.S. troops in Iraq. Bush's own plan for troop reductions also does this. Some support troops may be withdrawn along with the combat brigades, but it's hard to know exactly how many. A combat brigade is usually around 3,500 troops, and we have 20 of them in Iraq now. So withdrawing all of them would only reduce the total number by around 70,000. Even if we add tens of thousands more to that total for the withdrawal of support troops, that would still leave tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq under Obama's plan even 16 months after he becomes president. But it's hard to say exactly how many would be left because his plan is so vague.

"the competition between them has been disappointingly free of anything even resembling an argument about doctrine."

Matt is correct about this. This is the problem I've been pointing to for weeks about Obama. He's SOFT ON STRATEGY! He's also soft on tactics, but he's really soft on strategy.

As Jinchi mentions above, Obama is NOT against war, he's merely against the Iraq war. He's perfectly willing to throw ten thousand or more US troops into Afghanistan - where they will continue to lose against the Taliban.

What then? Throw another ten thousand in? Twenty thousand?

As I've said repeatedly in response to Matt's poor comprehension of the Afghan situation, you could throw the entire 160,000 US troops in Iraq into Afghanistan, and all you'll do is transform Afghanistan into Iraq (albeit more slowly, since Afghanistan is not a well developed, educated country like Iraq was.)

The same criticism applies to Obama's approach to Al Qaeda in Pakistan.

Obama does not have a coherent, rational strategy for dealing with the Middle East or terrorism. He just doesn't. He's got band aid approaches that may not have the same "hegemony", greed and power motivations as Bush and Cheney and the neocons, but they won't help and will almost certainly continue to make things worse.

Again, for the record, Clinton is no better and probably worse, and McCain is a warmongering nutcase.

But Obama has no solutions to the US foreign policy problems. And having blinders on to this fact is not going to be a good thing for the electorate.

Obama will keep troops in Iraq until after his re-election in 2012. He won't take them out in his first year because he doesn't want to derail his agenda. He won't take troops out the next year because Dems don't want "who lost Iraq" stories saturating the news before midterms. Third year is a possibility if Obama could get some bi-partisan cover. Fourth year is a complete non-starter with his reelection and a 23/9 split in Senate seats up for election.

Iraq is fucked and the best Obama will do in his first term is to bring half the combat troops home and hope it doesn't become even more fucked up. The reason to vote for Obama is that he will redeploy some troops (many to Afghanistan) or get drawn in to some other unnecessary quagmire. Obama probably won't make any major mistakes but there is a Sudanese aspirin factory in his future.

:That's not his position. Read my post. Obama wants to maintain a military presence of unspecified size in Iraq for an indefinite duration, including troops to "continue striking at Al Qaeda." And possibly a much larger force to "provide civilians with a safe haven" from genocide."

Ending the occupation is his position. He is not advocating having the bulk of the US military engaging in the occupation of Iraq, which forces the US military to intervene in the sectarian civil war between Sunni & Shia that is going on among the Iraqis (like Hapsburg Spain intervened in the sectarian civil war between Catholic and "Protestant that occurred in the German-speaking states during the the 16th century). He is advocating leaving enough force to provide for our national security needs (to protect our diplomats and to strike against any resurgence by Al Qaeda), and to provide humanitarian relief to Iraqi civilians who are targeted for ethnic cleansing. That's a far cry from the Bush/Cheney/McCain strategy, who involves actually engaging as a participant in the Iraqi civil war. (Interestingly enough, we are currently supplying both sides in the Civil War.)

"I'm pointing out how inconsistent Obama's militarism is with the views of you surrender monkeys."

We're not surrender monkeys, you warmongering gorilla. Unlike you apes, we're actually evolved enough to see that intervening in a sectarian civil war among the Iraqis does nothing to enhance our national security, and goes a long way toward weakening it. Many of us Obama supporters in fact used to support the Iraq war, until we realized how utterly false Dubya and Cheney's claims were about the war's necessity to our national security. We do still see the need for using our military as one of our tools in fighting Al-Qaeda, and so does Obama. This doesn't make him a miltarist; it simply makes him a true patriot, unlike you chest-beaters who stupidly continue to support policies that do nothing to defeat our enemies.

"Is it? Gee, and just last week, I was being told right here "Shock! Horror! Our military is bigger than those of every other country combined! That's outrageous! We need butter, not guns!" Now, you're telling me you want the guns after all? Who knew?

One of the many pathologies of the far left is its schizophrenia."

One of the greatest pathologies on the far right is a mindset that is reminiscent of autistic spectrum disorder. You folks suffer from an inability to view the word as it really is, with all its complexities and ambiguities. Instead, you try to fit all aspects of the world into a childishly simplistic world view. You never alter your views when the facts point how wrong your views are; you simply distort the facts in order to maintain your views.

This is reflected in your inability to recognize that most people who oppose the current Iraq occupation are not far leftists opposed to any use of US military force, even for legitimate purposes. Instead, most of use are simply liberals, who recognize that national security requires the use of military force sometimes, but who are also cognizant that war is not always the best way to achieve national security, especially in the long run.

The shoot first, second, and last and never ask questions approach favored by you, Dubya, Cheney, and McCain is a disaster for our country, and anybody with a modicum of common sense will see that. Unfortunately, because you far rightists suffer from autistic spectrum disorder, common sense is in very short supply among your ranks. That is why you stupidly insist on having our troops intervene in a civil war, while allowing Al Qaeda to rebuild itself in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

NEWSFLASH FOR MIXNER: Liberals believe in a strong national defense; they are simply opposed to mindless militarism. If your side wasn't so afflicted with an autistic mindset, you would be able to tell the difference.

"The support troops may be "redeployed" for the other purposes Obama has in mind for U.S. troops in Iraq."

These "other purposes" are the purposes that our troops should have used for primarily in the 1st place, such as fighting against Al Qaeda, instead of being a participant in the Iraqi civil war. It is remarkable how the far right is still unable to differentiate between fighting against Al Qaeda and militarily intervening in a civil war between our allies. (Yes, both Sunni and Shia Iraqis are our allies, especially since we have helped to arm both sides.)

"Even if we add tens of thousands more to that total for the withdrawal of support troops, that would still leave tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq under Obama's plan even 16 months after he becomes president. But it's hard to say exactly how many would be left because his plan is so vague."

Is it really vague, Mixner, and does it simply deal with contingencies, both foreseen and unforeseen? Could it be that Obama, unlike our current President, is actually able to incorporate foresight and long-term considerations into his judgement?

Contrary to the asinine assertions of Mike O'Hanlon and other war apologists, Obama doesn't think that doing the exact opposite of what Dubya did is the right answer. Obama's judgement tells him that there is a need for an American presence in the Middle East in order to counter the threat of Al Qaeda, and it tells him that intervening in a sectarian civil war among the Iraqis weakens our ability to fight Al Qaeda. So while he is pushing for the end of the Bush/McCain occupation of Iraq, he is also defining what seems to him the correct way to use our military power in the Middle East

He's not advocating a surrender to our enemies, as John McCain falsely claims; he's simply advocating fighting our enemies in a way that actually involves fighting our enemies. We don't need to keep over 150,000 troops in Iraq in order to do this, but we do have to maintain some troop presence in the Middle East in order to deal with Al Qaeda.

Obama is not some mindless peacenik; he simply didn't see the wisdom of the Bush/Cheney push for invading and occupying Iraq. It turns out he was right, unlike Bush, Cheney, McCain, and both Hillary and Bill Clinton.

In his basically fraudulent list of dichotomies ("unilateral preventive war vs multilateral arms control", etc), Matt clearly prefers "multilateral..."; "efforts to use our power to build and sustain a liberal world order...", etc.

I'm curious as to how that squares with the idea that it was a huge mistake to enforce multiple Chapter VII SC Resolutions on an aggressive, genocidal totalitarianism like Iraq.

I'm supporting Obama exactly because he hasn't given in to the peace-at-any-price faction, which would certainly be the most expedient political thing to do right now. He appears likely to follow the path described by realist and others above. I think he actually recognizes that we have vital interests in Iraq, including our responsibility to the many thousands of Iraqis who have stuck their necks out to assist in the liberation of their country.

I'm with Robert. I marched against, and before, the Iraq War in the reddest red state in America, next to a large Army base. People screamed at us, threatened us, the police were taking pictures, it was intense.

But I didn't march against bombing the crap out of the Taliban/Al Qaeda--obviously those nutjobs had it coming. Unfortunately, I was with a lot of people who were against all war (noted by the "Peace Now!" signs). Very nice thought, but lets be realistic.

So we weren't taken seriously, even though probably half of the people in a 300 person march were against the IRAQ war (I knew most of them).

If you want a candidate that will say all war is bad, then elect that person to head your Zen Buddhist monastery. But here in America, that person wouldn't get elected to anything, nor should they be!

The tragedy of the Democrats is that they have come to believe the worst about Americans--e.g. they don't know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan, and run campaigns based on this idea. What Americans want is for a political party to believe the best about them, and then run their campaign on that. People aren't sick of Republicans because of the Iraq war, its because they have run campaigns based on the worst aspects of ourselves. That's why Obama is winning, and why cynics hate him. He challenges their world view and no one likes that.

The tragedy of the Democrats is that they have come to believe the worst about Americans--e.g. they don't know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan, and run campaigns based on this idea.

Are you kidding? You do realize that you're talking about a party that can't even bring itself to vote against additional funding for the war in Iraq?

The problem with this strategy is it is based on a lie because Saddam sure as hell did attack us as we show in our book

Both In One Trench: Saddam's Secret Terror Documents

http://www.bothinonetrench.com


Comments closed February 28, 2008.

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