I don't really have anything of interest to say about the Academy Awards, though I guess it's somewhat unusual to see my favorite movie of the year -- There Will Be Blood -- so much as nominated, but consider this an oscars thread.
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Oscars Thread
24 Feb 2008 10:39 pm
Comments (61)
I... drink... your... milkshake
I was really happy to see "Falling Slowly" win best song. It was a great moment when they let the girl come back out and give her thank yous after they had cut her off...
Those songs from Enchanted were really horrible.
Big asterisk on original score. What an absurd awards show.
They just showed a documentary clip with James Fallows!
how was jonny greenwood not nominated for the amazing score for there will be blood??
Not enough of TWBB was original. Alex Ross brought it up in his review of the score
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2008/02/04/080204crmu_music_ross
Maybe it's because I thought so much of the novel, but I didn't have nearly the euphoric reaction to No Country for Old Men that many critics had. I think that of the Best Picture nominees, the one that will stand the test of time is There Will Be Blood.
I'm trying to find a silver lining to Diablo Cody winning best screenplay, but all I can think of is that maybe the expectations it creates will make her next movie bomb horribly. Some of the most god-awful writing I've ever seen. The fact that it was even nominated is a joke, and winning just shit all over the achievement of all past and future winners.
Not enough of Greewood's score was originally written exclusively for the film, though it was entirely original. Which is still a crock.
Since I worship the ground Radiohead walks on, I suppose I'm not the most objective on this, but maybe the Academy should take a look at that rule (along with the ridiculous way they do Foreign Language Film).
Tommy Lee Jones was robbed. He was unbelievable in In the Valley of Elah.
Glad to see 'Falling Slowly' win, very glad to see Marketa Irglova brought back onstage, and amused by how Irish her accent has become since making 'Once'. It's not just a charming little film, but also one of the first, I think, to delve into the changing demographics of Ireland since EU expansion eastwards.
That, combined with Dustin the Turkey's win in the Eurovision selection show, makes it a very good weekend for Irish music.
Neither TWBB nor NCfOM was as excellent as critical consensus has deemed them (I'd say 6/10 for both); but their anointing by Oscar was unexceptionably apposite to Anglophone culture's most overrated awards ceremony, short of the Turner Prize.
Those songs from Enchanted were really horrible.
You got that right, they were hideous.
You know why There Will Be Blood (and Anderson) got screwed tonight? Few saw it. And I don't mean at the theatres.
No oscar DVD screeners: which meant no pirated DVD screener torrents or rapidshare links or usenet postings... and these things, altogether, sealed its doom. Bad move.
Disagree with the comments regarding the songs for Enchanted. This is a case where context means everything (granted, I only saw Happy Working Song performed tonight). Happy Working Song was great in the film with Amy Adams dancing, and all the rats and pigeons cleaning Patrick Dempsey's apartment (as a parody of Snow White, Cinderella, etc.). But with Amy Adams just alone onstage, the song really didn't work. It was a great song and a great movie (well, a guilty pleasure).
Also, Amy Adams was robbed of an Oscar nomination for Best Actress for Enchanted. She was easily more deserving than Cate Blanchett (for Elizabeth).
Finally, I agree that it was great that they let the Irish girl come out and give her thank yous after the music cut her off. Note to the Academy (if any of them happen to read this website), I would prefer more time for acceptance speeches than more pointless montages (and I really did wish that we had a montage of Oscar montages).
One more thing. Ratatouille was great. Persepolis was better. Persepolis got robbed.
Sorry, but even comparing the two is totally ridiculous - they have absolutely nothing in common.
I have not seen There Will Be Blod (though I want to), so can't comment on it. Without seeing Day-Lewis' perfomance, I was really hoping for Viggo Mortensen (who was absolutely terrific in Eastern Promises--and boy, does he look like Ed Harris suddenly) or George Clooney. Micheal Clayton is not a classic, but is a very, very solid, serious picture of the type Hollywood almost never makes any more and Clooney who deserves kudos for dialing down his charisma for a great low key perfomance of a semi-loser. (In his milieu, Clayton is largely held in contempt by his employers as high paid office help who is not worthy of a partnership. This may not be readily apparent to all viewers, but I worked as an associate for a similar firm 25 years ago and got it immediately. The "janitor" analogy did not only describe his duties, but how he was treated by the firm.) I was very glad Tilda Swinton got an upset Oscar; and though I liked No Country Fold Old Men, I would have picked Tom Wilkinson (or Philip Seymour Hoffman) over Bardem and Michael Clayton for best picture
There Will Be Blood - too boring
No Country Fold Old Men - too pretentious. Without the pretentious pieces it could've been a decent action movie, something like Getaway, sort of. But then - no oscars, of course.
Novakant,
It's not really clear who you are addressing, so I will assume that you are addressing my post regarding Ratatouille's win for best animated feature over Persepolis.
First, you are incorrect to say that "comparing the two is totally ridiculous - they have nothing in common." Yes the stories and types of animation are different, but they do have two things in common. They are both feature length animated films. And they are both nominated for an academy award for best animated feature. So, by the very nature of being nominated for the same academy award, in which one must win, they are being compared.
Second, although I enjoyed Ratatouille, it really is a standard Disney talking animal film. If the rat just follows his dream and works really, really hard, he can eventually achieve it. It is a good story, but it has a "been there, done that" feel to it. The animation is superb. But this is Pixar, and it is getting to the point where their computer animation just seems routine (and this is coming from someone living two miles from the Pixar studios in Emeryville, CA).
Persepolis, on the other hand, is an engaging, moving, and unpredictable story. It shows Iran, and the Iranian people, in a completely different light. It shows living in Iran, and any totalitarian state, in a completely different light. And it does so with warmth and humor. It is also a great coming of age story. And the animation has a distinctive style and new feel to it. After seeing computer animated films for the past several years, it is just refreshing to see something in 2-D and black and white.
This was an opportunity for the Academy to make a really bold choice for something new and different (yes, I am aware that black and white 2-D animation has been around for over a century). Instead, it went with the safe and predictable choice. If Persepolis had won, it would have gotten more exposure, and more people would see this remarkable film. Ratatouille will sell a lot of DVDs no matter if it wins or not.
Finally, I have issues with Brad Bird. His films always have this, "talented people should be free to pursue their talent" attitude. This is evident in Ratatouille and the Incredibles, and also in his acceptance speech tonight/yesterday. I guess that I am just resentful because I am not very talented at anything and I work my butt off every day and still am not talented at everything that I worked hard at (and no, I am for allowing talented people to be free to pursue their talents).
Hey abb1— please enlighten me as to what you mean by pretentious. I'd love to hear your definition. If you mean "hifalutin jew hollywood claptrap," then I think I understand why you didn't like the movie. Next time opt for NASCAR and Larry the Cable Guy instead, you putz.
adlsad: First you defend the atrocious Enchanted songs, and then you post the most mind-bendingly inane sentence I have ever read: "I guess that I am just resentful because I am not very talented at anything and I work my butt off every day and still am not talented at everything that I worked hard at (and no, I am for allowing talented people to be free to pursue their talents)." Please stop posting, you might break the internet.
I was rooting for "Katyn" and "Persepolis". Oh well. Too important in terms of subject matter for the Oscars, I suppose.
Also, I thought "No Country..." was just too much of a massacre movie to win. Christ, it wasn't that long ago that Quenton Tarantino was being excoriated for less in terms of gratuitous violence. Maybe it had the edge because of the border/immigration angle...
dryfish:
I had the exact same reaction to No Country the first time I saw it. I suggest you see it again. The themes in the movie are a bit different, but it really is fantastic.
I was crossed up watching it the first time because I was watching from a POV of looking for the same themes from the novel.
APS
Hey Gregorio, I found it's pretentious because of all that ludicrous hillbilly philosophy, mystical redneck wisdom and fake symbolism. A matter of judgment, of course; just my personal opinion, no reason to fly off the handle here.
Does it answer your question? Now tell me what "hifalutin" means. Thanks.
Wtf was up with Day-Lewis speech? "This golden sapling sprung from the mad beautiful mind of Paul Thomas Anderson..." Couldn't he at least have given the people an "I drink your milkshake" joke?
Robert Powell:
It seems like what you're saying is that if No Country had been released 15 years ago, it would have been considered too violent to win Best Picture.
That's probably true, but I'm not sure how significant it is.
APS
M said:
"Neither TWBB nor NCfOM was as excellent as critical consensus has deemed them (I'd say 6/10 for both); but their anointing by Oscar was unexceptionably apposite to Anglophone culture's most overrated awards ceremony, short of the Turner Prize."
Now THAT's pretentious.
APS
Unusually good selections for the Oscars™.
I was happy No Country for Old Men won, and very happy that the Coens won Best Director.
Also pleased that Diablo Cody won, though that was expected. (I understand she's got a lot of haters, but they're idiots.)
And I was very pleasantly surprised to see Marion Cotillard win. I figured the language barrier would stop her.
"I'm trying to find a silver lining to Diablo Cody winning best screenplay, but all I can think of is that maybe the expectations it creates will make her next movie bomb horribly. Some of the most god-awful writing I've ever seen."
Envy is an ugly emotion.
"Glad to see 'Falling Slowly' win, very glad to see Marketa Irglova brought back onstage, and amused by how Irish her accent has become since making 'Once'. It's not just a charming little film, but also one of the first, I think, to delve into the changing demographics of Ireland since EU expansion eastwards."
Steve Sailer had similar comments in his review of "Once". Sounds like you two think alike. I haven't seen it, so I have no opinion of it. But it was nice that the girl got to have her say. It would have sucked to win an Oscar and not get to make a speech.
I'll note how unusual it is for a film I actually liked to win Best Picture. Going over the winners for the past 15 years, the only movies I've actually liked have been No Country, The Departed, and Titanic.
That makes two in a row. I don't know how to react if the Oscars™ are going to regularly start having mildly good taste.
The 5 nominated films were all fairly trivial bits of work. The "darkest" films were mechanically so -- if their makers truly believed their own nihilism, they wouldn't have been made at all. The richest film I saw last year was "Rescue Dawn", a film about an immigrant and former enemy dreaming of America. The protagonist, a German, had been a child during WW2 and the sight of American pilots bombing his town had filled him with the dream of going to American to become a pilot. He does and joins the Air Force. He's sent to Vietnam and on his first mission is shot down over North Vietnam. The protagonist's hope and dreams don't wither in captivity. Hence the title. It's an amazingly positive vision of what America once meant to even its enemies. The "dark" movies that were nominated for awards are juvenile and posturing -- one-note dirges, as clownish as the kidnappers in "The Big Lebowski".
"Rescue Dawn". Accept no substitutes.
If you want to see something dark and violent, but also funny and well-written, check out Martin McDonagh's In Bruges. I can see McDonagh getting an original screenplay nomination for this.
I can't believe Daniel Day-Lewis won for "There Will Be Blood". He has a tremendous range ("My Left Foot", "Last of the Mohicans", etc.), but his character/performance in TWBB was identical to his role in "Gangs of New York", right down to the accent. While a lot of Oscars go to nominees based on a prior work or body of work, I've never seen one go to someone who just carbon-copied their role in another film.
if their makers truly believed their own nihilism, they wouldn't have been made at all
Right. I can't believe anyone still praises that crappy King Lear, either.
--Agreed that it was pleasant to have at least 2 or 3 nominees for Best Pic that I'd have been happy to see win, and to have a good film win.
--Have no clue why MY thinks There Will Be Blood was so good, or why anyone thinks it was clearly superior to its rivals. I liked it well enough, but in retrospect it seems more like a two-hour setup to a really great 10-minute closer.
Wtf was up with Day-Lewis speech? "This golden sapling sprung from the mad beautiful mind of Paul Thomas Anderson..." Couldn't he at least have given the people an "I drink your milkshake" joke?
I'd like to thank the Academy for this amazing honor. And, to my fellow nominees: your chance of winning this Oscar is gone--there's nothing you can do about this now. You lose.
RANGE! RANGE, Clooney, you boy! No range, I'm so sorry. If you give a performance, and I give a performance, and I start out whispering, see, here it is, I'm whispering, listen to it, and my voice raises throughooooouuuut the scene, and I start to act insane--I... WIN... YOUR... OSCAR! I PICK IT UP!
DID YOU THINK YOUR LOOKS AND CHARISMA AND POPULARITY WOULD HELP YOU, CLOONEY? I AM A TWO-TIME WINNER, I AM WHO THE ACADEMY HAS CHOSEN, I'M SMARTER THAN YOU, I'M OLDER, AND I AM NOT A MATINEE IDOL, YOU SNIVELING BOY!
"Have no clue why MY thinks There Will Be Blood was so good"
It was pretty damn good, though I was pleased to see No County win instead.
I thought giving Elswit the Cinematography Oscar™ for There Will Be Blood was a correct consolation prize. That movie just looked so fucking amazing.
if their makers truly believed their own nihilism, they wouldn't have been made at all
Right. I can't believe anyone still praises that crappy King Lear, either.
Lear isn't nihilistic. It's tragic. Useful distinction.
And it's not like we don't have Yeats's "Lapis Lazuli" or Lear's own, "the worst is not,/ So long as we can say, 'This is the worst.'" Or even the Coens's own mockery of nihilism in "The Big Lebowski." (So, they turn around and make a straight faced movie in which the "good" are impotent and the innocent are led to slaughter? How does that work? At least National Socialism is an ethos.)
You're not particularly clear on the ground rules of art, Jeffrey Davis.
Gregorio,
Wow. I am sorry that you disagree with me. I am sorry for having an opinion. I guess that I will just write one more post to respond to you - I think the internet will be safe.
Like I wrote above, I liked Enchanted and the songs for Enchanted (again, I only saw "Happy Working Song" performed last night, so I have a vague recollection of the other songs), and I described the movie as "a guilty pleasure." I think the movie was a clever parody by Disney of all of its "princess films." Amy Adams was absolutely pitch perfect in the lead role.
Regarding the songs in Enchanted. I liked the songs. Sorry. Like many people, I grew up watching Disney films, and I thought the songs were cute parodies of original Disney songs. Also, context means everything for the Enchanted Songs. "Happy Working Song" is quite funny in the movie where Amy Adams is singing it while using rats and pigeons and other creatures to clean Patrick Dempsey's apartment. But it is not very funny when it is just Amy Adams alone on stage.
As for the second quote. Well, I was writing around 2 am last morning after writing the entire day. Let's just strike that quote for the record.
Jeffrey Davis,
I agree with you regarding "Rescue Dawn." It was a great film, and Christian Bale gave a terrific performance - probably his best. Christian Bale should have received an academy award nomination. If you have not seen, "Little Dieter Needs to Fly" (the original documentary the movie is based on), you should rent it. Good stuff.
the animation has a distinctive style and new feel to it.
It's such a great translation from the page to the screen.
As for Brad Bird, he's basically a somewhat creepy Randroid: 'amazingly talented people who know they're amazingly talented must be able to do whatever they think necessary, regardless of the consequences for the plebs.' If he had more time on stage, he'd do a Howard Roark.
Steve Sailer had similar comments in his review of "Once". Sounds like you two think alike.
STFU, Fred. I have no idea what Sailer Boy said, but I can guess without seeking it out. That, plus I've already showered and don't want to go looking for pumice stone.
The Dublin of Once isn't Roddy Doyle Ireland, though that's not to demean Doyle. It's not the Celtic Tiger of the 90s indie films to come out of Ireland, either. It's a sweet little film that's very much of its time.
That Daniel Day-Lewis speech would have been awesome. Especially if he'd beaten Clooney to death with his Oscar while giving it.
[i]Envy is an ugly emotion.[/i]
Yes, that's it Fred, it's envy. Clearly anyone who is disgusted by Cody's pretentious hipster preening is merely jealous. After all, who wouldn't love a writer who thought it a good idea to write the lines "Honest to blog?" and "That's one doodle that can't be undid homeskillet"? She is the most annoying type of hipster, the one who is so self-conscious that she needs to constantly remind you of just how cool she finds herself to be. This review summed it up the best:
"Here’s the problem I have with Diablo Cody: she seems like the kind of hipster who not only uses a vintage lunch box for a purse, but, more importantly, insists you know she uses a vintage lunch box as a purse. Her screenwriting debut, the alt-chick teen pregnancy dramedy “Juno,” is overloaded with clumsy pop culture references and sloppy monologues about obscure indie-culture darlings that it plays less like an actual story and more like a checklist of cool things Cody knows exists. This movie is one big sweaty poseur-palooza. It’s a vintage lunch box purse, with nothing in it."
The annoyance factor of your objections, Aaron, is infinitely higher than the annoyance factor of Diablo Cody.
"STFU, Fred."
Ah, don't get your panties in a bunch just because you and your nemesis have something in common. You and he had similar opinions about "Once", even including the point about Ireland's changing demographics.
"Yes, that's it Fred, it's envy. Clearly anyone who is disgusted by Cody's pretentious hipster preening is merely jealous."
OK, Aaron, maybe it's not envy. Maybe it's just pretentiousness, that you are the arbiter of the Platonic ideal of screenwriting. She wrote a movie that was a critical hit, a commercial success; she was nominated for a best screenplay award by hundreds (at least) of professional screenwriters, and she won after receiving the votes of thousands of film professionals. I haven't seen the movie, but if I see it and think that the script is crap -- after the critics, the movie-going public, and her fellow screenwriters thought it was great -- than that will mean I am not a good judge of screen writing, not them.
Is this all about that "Juno" thing? Isn't it a quintessential chick's flick?
Aaron, I hope you don't ever see Heathers. You wouldn't like it.
"Juno" didn't annoy me as much as it did Aaron. We've been inundated in the movies with hipster doofus guys for several years now. "Juno" simply asked what it would mean for a girl to adopt the same attitudes. The upshot: Ellen Page is funnier than Seth Rogen.
You have to go back over 40 years to "The World of Henry Orient" to find another movie in which young teen girls are allowed to be smart alecks on their own without having to shake it or date the cutest guy in class.
Ratatouille was great. Persepolis was better. Persepolis got robbed.
I don't like Brad Bird's ideology either and Persepolis winning would have been just fine by me. But saying that Persepolis was better than Ratatouille, is like saying Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf is better than Singing in the Rain - it simply doesn't make any sense.
And please, it is beyond obvious to anybody with even the slightest bit of knowledge that there were better screenplays than Juno.
Petey, that's ridiculous. So pointing out painfully bad dialog by an Oscar winner is worse than the dialog itself huh? So would make your criticism of criticism annoying to an infinite power? If you want to be the guy defending "Honest to blog" be my guest. I can't believe one criticism of a bad script would make you get so much sand in your vagina.
Fred, you just rendered anything you have to say completely worthless. You haven't even seen the damn movie. "But the critics loved it! It must be good!"
And please, it is beyond obvious to anybody with even the slightest bit of knowledge that there were better screenplays than Juno.
It is not, on the other hand, at all obvious that there was a better screenplay nominated for best original screenplay at last nights Oscars. In fact, it's false.
so it seems the really cool kids hate Juno and love No Country. the wanna-be cool kids -- who are really just nerds -- thought Juno was pretty good, but because of their lack of coolness cant see why lines like "honest to blog," in fact, make the whole damn thing suck.
I thought Jefferey Davis had a good point.
I also was hugely underwhelmed by No Country.
chris, it's not about being cool, which is the entire point. Diablo Cody for some reason feels the need to go through her checklist of pop-culture references that supposedly makes one hip (and if you don't believe me just go read some of her other writing, her first column for entertainment weekly is a good start: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20166555,00.html).
It could have been a much better movie (I didn't even think it was a bad movie, but her script was just trying way too hard to impress someone) if she'd turned down the quirk by a couple notches. It was forced, awkward, and ultimately just makes you feel sad for her. Like I said originally, it cheapens the best screenplay award, and now we'll have a flock of Diablo Cody wanna-bes substituting A-Team and He-Man references for actual wit. Pregnant sixteen year-old girls don't make Thundercats jokes when their water breaks, that's what annoying hipster 30-somethings do when they want to impress you.
That's a good point, it is unlikely that Juno would have sufficient familiarity with the Thundercats to make a reference to them. And the first scene at the pharmacy, which you quote a line from earlier, is bad. It's still a very good screenplay.
Aaron,
"Fred, you just rendered anything you have to say completely worthless. You haven't even seen the damn movie. "But the critics loved it! It must be good!""
Great job of missing the point. The point was that it doesn't matter what I think of the screenplay or what you think of it: if the consensus of the critics, professional filmmakers, and the movie-going public is that the screenplay was good, then it was. There is no Platonic ideal of a great screenplay that you are in a position to be the arbiter of. If the critics and the film industry like it, and it puts asses in the seats, then almost by definition, it's a good screenplay. Similarly, if you said the screenplay for Chinatown was bad, that wouldn't make it so.
It is not, on the other hand, at all obvious that there was a better screenplay nominated for best original screenplay at last nights Oscars. In fact, it's false.
Not having watched the other 3 nominees, I won't argue this point, but how the Academy could overlook e.g. Zodiac in this category borders on incompetence.
And it is obvious that Juno is just a mediocre screenplay, with some nice ideas but also undeniable faults. There is a lot of cringe-worthy, pseudo-hip dialogue in it, the story proceeds in a clunky manner and the characters aren't really fleshed out. Ultimately the screenplay is only saved by some good acting. I didn't mind having watched it, but it's only a pleasant yet forgettable indie flick - not in any way exceptional.
Ok, I retract Zodiac, since it was adapted, but still.
Fred I didn't miss your point, I dismissed it because it's ridiculous. You're defending a movie you haven't seen based on the fact that critics liked it. Plenty of films/bands/TV shows that are absolute garbage get critical acclaim and put asses in seats. Why even bother forming our own opinions if all we need to do is like what the critics and the masses like? I'm throwing out my music collection and buying the top 20 Billboard albums tomorrow. I hear that Daughtry is the bee's knees. Honest to blog.
I have to counter the prevailing interpretation of Ratatouille here (and to a certain extent Brad Bird). Much of what that movie was about was the tempering of ego after the discovery of a talent. It was about negotiating environments in which such a gift would be both wonderful and problematic. It's clear that Remy is the one with the "talent" per se but it doesn't make him a better rat, a better brother/son, chef, or friend. He has to learn how to be those things in conjunction to learning his gift. And at the end of the day, he accomplishes nothing without his compatriots.
I can't defend The Incredibles because I also found that unquestioned sense of superiority to be problematic, but I do think that Bird has moderated his views for this story (maybe because the story was not originally his -- it was from Jan Pinkava: Bird took over direction a little more than a year before the movie was set to premiere).
Persepolis in any other year would have been a wonderful choice for this category, but Ratatouille has the potential to redirect mainstream American animation. Yes it looks and acts like a kiddie flick, but it can show how American animation doesn't have to be a "big tent" exercise in big, farcical fun while positing clear moral conclusions from stories. It can also be ambiguous, turn on subtle shifts of character rather than on large, defining events, and be just as conscientious of quotidian detail as any "realistic" movie.
Oh, and a couple more things:
I'm not sure what a commenter meant by "nihilism" and how it specifically relates to the one BP nominee that I've seen, TWBB, but I found that movie to be full of latent judgment heaped upon the main character. It isn't, as it were, raining down in any kind of "obvious" way -- but implied in the landscape increasingly debased by Plainview that also comes to mirror the obliteration of of his own soul as he succumbs to the extremity of his greed. His "child"'s fate is judgment, his oil-stained face is a judgment, his crazed "I drink YOUR milkshake" is a judgment.
I can't vouch for NCFOM since I have yet to see it, but despite many complaints to the contrary I found Fargo to be deep and sympathetic. However, it might have been to the high quality performances. Watch Frances McDormand, William H. Macy, and Steve Buscemi. Maybe they articulated a morality that the Coens don't really know how to present on their own, but still ...
Comments closed March 09, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
Quite frankly I am annoyed that it happened at all, I was hoping rather mischievously that the strike would shut it down.
Ah well, in a decade or so the collapse of the film industry will see to that.
Posted by Revamp | February 24, 2008 10:56 PM