The Wire's creator was in DC earlier this week and did some press and events, prompting reports from Kay Steiger and Peter Bryce. At this point, I'm just eager to see how things end . . . I've found substantial elements of season five to be disappointing, but there are substantial elements of brilliance and it is quite possible that the end will wind up vindicating much of what I've thus far found unsatisfactory.
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Talking to David Simon
29 Feb 2008 09:13 am
Comments (27)
I will say that this season seems hamstringed by the new characters and the development thereof, and the lack of any likability towards marlo and his ilk. Maybe that makes it real, but atleast with Barksdale..you saw a bit of human in him. This to me will be the worst season..but with that said it will and is still leap years above anything on Television/movies. A true novel in movie pictures.
All the problems with the fifth season fell into place for me when I heard that they trimmed the number of episodes, supposedly after production had already started. It seems clear to me that, if they had had the original number of episodes, a.) they would have done more exploration of the interaction between the newspaper and City Hall that they touched on in the first couple episodes, before moving into the whole Shattered Glass routine, and b.) Lester Freamon wouldn't have joined in McNulty's campaign until after the D.A. botched the Clay Davis thing, (it didn't really make sense the way they ended up doing it, because Freamon had always been about "following the money").
As to why HBO chose to run the fifth season, and then cripple it at the last minute to save a few bucks, the only explanation I can think of is they wanted to re-inforce the whole "institutions are irreparably corrupt and self-defeating" theme of the series.
"As to why HBO chose to run the fifth season, and then cripple it at the last minute to save a few bucks, the only explanation I can think of is..."
...not even HBO can pay its bills with the disproportionate praise of WIRE fanboys?
I have to say, Matt's "it kinda sucks now, but maybe it will somehow get better" is pretty familiar to me as a comic book reader.
Mike
I honestly think the biggest mystery of the show, going forward, is that abbreviated season thing. Even if the ratings aren't huge the show has a ridiculously long tail and is [i]incredibly[/i] prestigious.
Why burn all that to save the cost of three episodes of a show that, quite honestly, probably doesn't cost that much to begin with?
It's strange. There's been so much hatin on this season that I don't really understand. Now, admittedly, the newsroom plot thread has been truncated. (Although, after reading all the complaints and criticisms about the newsroom scenes, I have to say that they've seem overblown after actually watching most of the season). But after watching episode 9, I thought the entire season had redeemed itself. This episode is easily one of the best in the series. I think that this season, upon further reflection away from the spin-cycle of immediate reaction in blogtime, is going to be considered very good.
Thinking back, if one were to consider only the first three to fours episodes of season one, there wouldn't have been anything special about the Wire. It is only after the completion of the season that one can see the greatest of the series. I think that we can give Simon and co. the benefit of the doubt until the end (how sad).
The last item that bugs me about the reactions to the season has been the fact that critics have been acting under the assumption that Simon dictates the vision of the show. No doubt, Simon is the public face of the show, but there are at least 5-6 different writers including Burns, Pelecanos, Mills, Price, and Lehane. Not to speak that a work of art such as the Wire is the collaboration of thousands of individuals. While there is direction, one of the remarkable things about the Wire is what the amazing ensemble cast brings.
Well, another 8 days to wait...
I agree with MNLefty. The 9th episode, which I watched on demand, was devastating and brilliant (no spoilers, I promise). One of the things that's interesting about the Wire is a heavy stress on a season-long narrative, which necessitates lots of plot-building in the early episodes of every season, which doesn't always makes for scintillating TV. I remember feeling disappointment in the early episodes of seasons 2 and 4, too, only for great payoff at the end.
That having been said, I agree that the newsroom stuff has been a little bit cartoonish for my tastes, especially the loathsome editors. Even some of the Wire's other villains have something redeeming about them -- hell, Valchek's actually entertaining once in a while. Unless the editors are meant to parallel the humorless Marlo in some way, which would be consistent with the Wire MO. Damn, I'll miss this show when it's done.
I agree with MNLefty. The 9th episode, which I watched on demand, was devastating and brilliant (no spoilers, I promise). One of the things that's interesting about the Wire is a heavy stress on a season-long narrative, which necessitates lots of plot-building in the early episodes of every season, which doesn't always makes for scintillating TV. I remember feeling disappointment in the early episodes of seasons 2 and 4, too, only for great payoff at the end.
That having been said, I agree that the newsroom stuff has been a little bit cartoonish for my tastes, especially the loathsome editors. Even some of the Wire's other villains have something redeeming about them -- hell, Valchek's actually entertaining once in a while. Unless the editors are meant to parallel the humorless Marlo in some way, which would be consistent with the Wire MO. Damn, I'll miss this show when it's done.
I'm well aware that HBO is a for-profit entity, that makes its decisions in order to maximize return to shareholders, not to please me. And if, therefore, they had decided just to cancel Season 5 altogether, I would have been crushed, but I would have assumed they knew what they were doing. But when your only asset is your brand, you should either fold or go all-in, sub-par product hurts you more than no product at all.
I'm well aware that HBO is a for-profit entity, that makes its decisions in order to maximize return to shareholders, not to please me. And if, therefore, they had decided just to cancel Season 5 altogether, I would have been crushed, but I would have assumed they knew what they were doing. But when your only asset is your brand, you should either fold or go all-in, sub-par product hurts you more than no product at all.
"The Wire's creator was in DC earlier this week" - Matt
He should have thanked you for the $40 I just paid for Season 1. He might get even more if I like it. The last time I watched a TV show was three or four years ago - Adriana getting killed on the Sopranos I think.
Petey, thanks for the spoiler in the first bloody comment. Some of us don't have fricking On Demand, you know? Would it kill you clowns to shut up until Sunday? It's my fault for clicking on this, I suppose, but I really don't get why people are compelled to do that...
"Petey, thanks for the spoiler in the first bloody comment. Some of us don't have fricking On Demand"
My error, but for a different reason than you think.
I meant to write "Omar, RIP", but haven't had enough coffee yet to get my names correct.
I wanted to write that all of last week, but refrained specifically to avoid screwing with folks who don't have On Demand.
My error is a typo, not a lack of consideration.
"It's my fault for clicking on this, I suppose, "
And FWIW, I think you are entirely correct for clicking on this thread. I believe the informal rules are that it's OK to discuss the episode that last aired, but not the episode currently available On Demand.
(Why HBO has chosen to stagger viewership that way, completely killing the "water cooler value" of the show is beyond me. But that's a different topic.)
I find all the criticism of the newsroom stuff interesting. I was especially appalled by the article about Simon in the print version of the Atlantic. The author of the article had an ax to grind (kudos to him, though for being up front about that). My wife works in a paper that has gone and is going through just the sorts of turbulence that the Sun is going through on the show, and she thinks it's spot on.
Petey, that "water cooler value" will be back in place for the last episode. It won't be available until the day after the last episode airs a week from Sunday.
Petey--I appreciate the response, and am glad it was an error! (And please, no one spoil things by saying it was/wasn't true). Sorry I lost my temper, but trying to remain unspoiled for these last few episodes has been daunting. I don't know why HBO decided to do this On Demand nonsense, as all it does is reduce viewing figures for the show...
While this season has left a little to be desired, people are exactly right that Episode 9 will go down as one of the best ever. That being said, my main complaint with this year has been the McNulty plot line. While I won't go so far as to say it was their "jump the shark" moment. It is, without a doubt, the most unbelievable thing that has happened in the show. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a homicide detective could do what he's done. And even more hard to believe that there is not a tighter leash in regards to what he does with the OT hours. Oh, well, still MUCH better than anything else on TV. Except for Celebrity Apprentice of course. Duh.
Parker,
Don't worry Petey's typo doesn't spoil any thing, those of us who've watched epsidoe 9 on On Demand have no more idea what happens to Marlo than someone who hasn't watched a single episode yet. He didn't inadvertantly give anything away, he just made a total typo.
The serial killer storyline is different from most of the shows previous plotlines, but I think that what it loses in plausibility it makes up in its fascinating metaphorical value, which has only become clear in the most recent episodes. It's a lie that institutions become beholden to and forced to uphold -- it's the war on drugs and the war in Iraq. It's the lie that our newspapers can do more with less, that teaching to the test helps our kids learn, and the lie that we can and will win this drug war.
"Petey, that "water cooler value" will be back in place for the last episode. It won't be available until the day after the last episode airs a week from Sunday."
Hallelujah!
The On Demand premiers have been such a drag. The morning after watching episode 8, I really wanted to chat about the demise of Omar, but since it had yet to be broadcast, there was no non-spoiler outlet for discussion, either online or offline.
Mondays should be all about folks talking Wire-talk, but HBO has simply killed the buzz for the show.
Petey,
Take a gander over to Alan Sepinwall's blog. There are comments for both the on-demander's and those buying the bootlegs.
Regarding the availability of the show a week early on demand, I'm actually a big fan. I heard David Simon speak at Politics and Prose right around when Season 4 was starting, when it still was up in the air whether HBO would pick up Season 5 or not. He joked about asking the crowd to watch the show On Demand multiple times - which got me thinking that, if I watch the show on Sunday night at 9 when it airs, then other than the random people I tell, nobody knows I am watching. I freely admit that I have no knowledge of the mechanics of Comcast use tracking, but I have to assume that if I watch a show On Demand then somehow that fact gets back to HBO. So for a show (best one on television, IMHO) that has had to fight for its life for several seasons because of concern that it wasn't pulling enough viewers, if HBO gets stats on huge numbers of people watching the next episode as soon as it is available On Demand, that has to have a positive impact in the eyes of HBO management.
Long way of saying - give in the temptation and watch the amazing Episode 9 now!
Battlestar Galactica's final season is starting soon. That should cleanse your palate of The Wire.
"One of the things that's interesting about the Wire is a heavy stress on a season-long narrative, which necessitates lots of plot-building in the early episodes of every season,"
Funny, that also precisely applies to the "Terminator" show.
The plot so far has been getting fairly complicated, with hints and implications yet to be fleshed out. There are hints that Cameron may not be what she seems to be or that she has her own agenda besides protecting John Connor. And it's not clear whether Derek Reese is his own man, either.
Josh Friedman has plot lines laid out for seasons two and three, if it gets picked up.
And they only had nine episodes to work with (seven shown so far with the two hour finale being eight and nine, apparently). I guess that was due to the writer's strike. Friedman is a writer as well as the producer, so he had to stop producing during the strike as well and turn the show over to his associate producers.
The acting has been first rate. Lena Headey, Thomas Dekker, Summer Glau, Richard T. Jones, Dean Winters, Brian Austin Green, and Catherine Dent have all done excellent work, and the supporting actors have been very good as well.
This has been one of the better sci-fi shows on TV. They carefully avoided a "bash the Terminator of the week" shtick that they could have fallen into. The character development has been extensive. And the conflict development has also been extensive: almost all the characters have multiple conflicts going on simultaneously, even within themselves.
The two-hour finale is Monday night.
It's disconcerting to find myself agreeing with Richard S. Hack here, but The Terminator is a great show. Right now that and the L-Word are the only must-see shows in my household. The writing is excellent, and occasionally surprisingly literate (e.g., Sarah Connor's v.o. relating the true story of the American OSS agent sent to decide hear a Heisenberg lecture in Switzerland and decide whether or not to kill him, based on his sense of how far along German nuke science was). The casting and the acting are great too. There's finally a likable actor playing the young John Connor; Leanna Headley is a better Sarah Connor than Linda Hamilton was, and Summer Glau is perfectly cast as a Terminator. Good stuff.
Coincidentally, the L-Word and Terminator have an actor in common: the actor who plays the psychologist who treated Sarah at the mental asylum also plays the husband Cybil Shepherd's character leaves on the L-Word, when she discovers she's a lesbian.
TO THE AUTHOR OF THE PIECE ABOUT DAVID SIMON BEING THE ANGRIEST MAN ON TELEVISION,
IN THE REALM OF COLUMNS AND EDITORIALS, I GUESS YOU ARE ALLOWED THE EXCESS OF OPINION, BUT THERE ARE LIMITS AND FACTUAL BOUNDARIES TO WHICH EVERY DECENT WRITER SHOULD CONFORM.
YOU CROSSED THE LINE WITH SIMON. YOUR FREUDIAN ANALYSIS OF SIMON QUOTES ALONG WITH ACADEMIC CRITIQUE (THE YALE PROFESSOR WHO SAYS THE SHOW IS TOO BLEAK) COMES ACROSS AS PERSONAL RATHER AS A REAL COMMENT ABOUT THE MERIT OF THE SHOW. BY TRYING TO CRITICIZE THE SHOW (THAT IS YOUR PURPOSE?) YOU MAKE IT ABOUT SIMON RATHER THAN LOOKING AT HOW THE WIRE SPECIFICALLY GETS THINGS WRONG IN TERMS OF AUTHENTICITY, STORY, STYLE ECT.
I CAN REFUTE THE YALE PROFESSOR'S ASSERTION THAT THE WIRE DOESN'T INCLUDE CHURCH FOLK OR WHAT YOU CALL "NORMAL FOLK" BY POINTING TO THE OLD WOMAN IN HAMSTERDAM WHO LIVED IN THE ROW HOUSES, SHOWING THE LOSS OF INNOCENCE WITH RANDY MICHAEL AND DOOKIE IN SEASON 4, OMAR'S GRANDMA AND THE SUNDAY MORNING RULE, BUNK AND OMAR SITTING ON THE BENCH IN SEASON 3, THE CHILD CATCHING A STRAY BY MOST LIKELY BODIE IN SEASON 2...THE LIST GOES ON.
THE WIRE SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED THROUGH YOUR NARROW SCOPE IN TERMS OF A SOCIAL CONTRACT THAT RESEMBLES HIGH SCHOOL.
LOOK AT THE SHOW SEASONS 1-4. AMAZING. AND NOT JUST AMAZING IN TERMS OF TV AMAZING BUT AMAZING IN TERMS OF SOCIAL COMMENTARY AMAZING.
SEASON 5 IS THE EXCEPTION AND POINTS TO WHERE I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS ABOUT SIMON. THE NEWSPAPER ANGLE IS INDULGENT AND INCONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE SHOW.
SO THIS IS WHAT I SUGGEST, DAVID SIMON AND THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE SHOULD HAVE A SLEEPOVER PARTY WITH EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER WET THEIR DIAPER AND CUDDLE.
GET OVER IT.
Comments closed March 14, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
"I've found substantial elements of season five to be disappointing, but there are substantial elements of brilliance and it is quite possible that the end will wind up vindicating much of what I've thus far found unsatisfactory."
It's all cleaning up nicely.
My only problem with the reporter subplot of season five was that they had to waste far too many minutes of an abbreviated season in introducing and developing new characters who we don't particularly care about.
If they'd had 20 episodes to noodle around with instead of 10, the reporter stuff would've been just fine.
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Marlo, RIP.
Posted by Petey | February 29, 2008 9:39 AM