Time reports that the popularity of the goatee in the 1990s was "partof a backlash to feminism". Seems like an odd interpretation. Indeed, the timing doesn't even make sense. Time for a blogger ethics panel?
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The Backlash Goatee
12 Feb 2008 03:27 pm
Comments (65)
I thought people grew those to camouflage their double chin, or to compensate for balding.
It was a backlash to the Eighties.
"Goatee" is actually a misnomer. Most people with partial facial hair have VanDykes, not Goatees.
1. Women generally don't like facial hair.
2. Women generally like feminism.
Given those two irrefutable facts, it follows that goatees (and soul patches, mutton chops, etc.) serves as a direct counterpoint to feminism.
1. Women generally don't like facial hair.
2. Women generally like feminism.
Given those two irrefutable facts, it follows that goatees (and soul patches, mutton chops, etc.) serve as a direct counterpoint to feminism.
that's one of the stupidest things i've ever read. goatees became a main part of the underground part of popular culture in the 1990's because of the popularity and even deification of Kurt Cobain, one of the greatest male feminists of all time.
let's test the dumbass theory. find a feminist meeting or rally, look hard until you can find the men: i guarantee they have more goatees than the male population in general. so it's not just wrong, it's backward.
It is manly, no? The hair on the chin like the goat. cabra in my country means, goat. The goat is very manly, always after the females. This is why cabron in my country means, manly like the goat. It is something you say to your frineds when they have done something particuarly manly, like trip on a cinder block when drunk borracho and cut open your head.
So, when you sport the goatee, you are saying to the world, "world, look out, I am manly like the goat! I may mount you."
This makes sense as a response to la feminisma? No?
Women don't like facial hair- on guys who don't look good with it. I don't see many women lamenting the facial hair sported by any of the male leads on Lost.
(And I say this as a guy who looks like a total dumbass if he goes a day without shaving).
In the 90s, baseball players made VanDykes ("goatees") pretty popular. It was an intimidation thing. I wouldn't say Cobain had a goatee as much as he was stubbly and had denser, darker hair around his mouth (as many do). These days, the guys sporting this look tend to be of the doughy Jonah Goldberg/Chuck Todd variety. Pudgy, pasty, dorky.
Time magazine is written by simpletons so...
I like Chuck Todd's goatee. It's dorky, but it sorts of suits his character as the dork you turn to for the scoop on arcane political stuff. I bet a few of the cooler people I know regard me that way.
Andrew Sullivan's beard is a backlash against feminism. Not sure about all the others.
there was a huge backlash against feminism in the 1990's
Seriously, is there ever not a backlash against feminism?
The Time article is stupid, but is the timing wrong? I would figure the apogee of feminism (at least, that wave of feminism) was around 1980. The demise of the E.R.A. and the anti-pornography clashes of the mid 80s signaled the decline. I suppose, though, that the rise of the goatee in the mid 90s can't really be a backlash against a movement that crested in the early 80s.
I think it all depends on the prominence and presence of upper-lip hair. Thick moustache, without beard, is very conservative and overtly masculine. An Amish-style goatee without mustache (chin only) seems to be the most benign, non-threatening form of facial hair around (unless of course it becomes pointy and devilish!), very sensitive-guy.
As for a regular goatee, w/ mustache, it is culturally and sexually neutral. It means that you hate shaving around your mouth and chin, where your skin is most sensitive and your beard most thick.
The biggest problem with the goatee is that it can be crooked or at least look crooked. Chuck Todd case in point.
All I know is that in the early 90s my friends who grew goatees tended to be the "I-wear-my-feminism-on-my-sleeve" alternarocker types, much like young MY here. The fact that some of them cheated on their girlfriends and treated them like crap is beside the point.
"Thick moustache, without beard, is very conservative and overtly masculine."
You mean like Freddie Mercury? That kind of overtly masculine?
I don't know if feminism is involved; but I do think barbaric-looking facial hair is obviously part of the general macho-ization of America that started with Reagan and intensified through Gulf War 1 triumphalism. Cf. the popularity of ugly fascist boots, tattoos, and every other ridiculous skinhead style - along with military style vehicles that have almost now almost completely replaced coupes and sedans.
Wah? I actually had a goatee (OK, maybe it was a vandyke) during the early 90s, when I was barely in my twenties. If anything, I was more uncritically pro-feminist than I should have been, but there was absolutely no connection other than, perhaps, making myself look interesting at the expense of attractive (to women feminists or unaffiliateds). (Probably it was not as much interesting as kind of Abe Lincoln-y, but with me being shorter, slackerer, and less money.) I think I initially went for the partial beard look because I could do that, and the full beard thing hadn't gone too well when I was 18.
Andrew Sullivan's beard is a backlash against feminism. Not sure about all the others.
Dude, he's his husband now.
Si, cabron. I always thought it made a nice match with female genital hair. Plus, you get all that Leninist pussy.
During most of the 90's I had a goatee. This was mostly due to my inability then to grow a decent beard on the rest of my face. I assume that if I hadn't been emasculated by feminism then I would have been able to grow a full beard. To that extent my goatee was _caused_ by feminism though I'm not sure that it was part of a backlash to it.
That's goatees on women, right?
Conservative? I dunno, I suppose it depends on what you wear it with. None of the facially-haired men I was closely acquainted with had suits, but many had doc martens, tattoos, jewelry, etc.. Boots, jewelry, and doc martens for the women as well. Time Mag is just making things up. Or maybe I missed the big picture because I was only in Chicago, Austin, and Amherst during that era. Maybe they were talking South America, or Utah?
Or do you not remember all of those articles about ticking biological clocks and cocooning, or all the condemnation of political correctness, or all the rest?
Kinda sounds like The Atlantic Magazine...
Seriously, Matthew, who is it with the female issues over there who feels so compelled each month to hire Caitlin Flanagan and Lori Gottlieb to tell women how to live their lives?
'The Case for Settling for Mr. Good-Enough'? It's a bit embarrassing- like Cosmo without the self-empowerment.
"goatees became a main part of the underground part of popular culture in the 1990's because of the popularity and even deification of Kurt Cobain"
I suspect many goatee wearers of the 90s cared more about Stone Cold Steve Austin than Cobain.
Mike
Time reports that the popularity of the goatee in the 1990s was "partof a backlash to feminism".
What a strange thing to say.
A better argument would be to suggest that the increasing popularity of beards is a rebuke to metrosexualism, though even that would still be a strange thing to say.
It didn't have anything to do with feminism. It started with young gay men, and eventually crossed over into the straight male world. By the time goatees had become popular among straight guys, gay men were mostly back to being clean-shaven.
Is facial hair even necessarily considered manly?
After all, the 50's are romanticized as a pretty manly time for our country, and you don't see a lot of facial hair in popular representations of that time.
Although perhaps that's just because dimpled chins rate even higher on the manometer.
Por supuesto. Lenin = power. Power = manly. Manly = sex with ladies. Quiero sex with ladies? Grow a goatee, my friend.
Time magazine:
The Big Mustache (1970s)
shouted virility and became a signature look for newly liberated gay men
Wait a second .... all these years I just thought it looked cool.
I think that's right, Jason. In my memory it went from Gay to Hipster to Baseball Player to Fat Guys covering their double chins. By the time the trend got to the baseball players the first two groups dropped it.
I like Chuck Todd's goatee. It's dorky, but it sorts of suits his character as the dork you turn to for the scoop on arcane political stuff.
Chuck Todd reminds me of Murray from Flight of the Conchords. So either arcane political stuff, or inept band management.
Like others who were barely in their twenties in the 90's, my occasional goatee was due to an inability to grow a decent full beard. It was more a backlash against shaving than feminism.
"...Baseball Player to Fat Guys..."
You covering two bases with one goatee there. Who says markets are not efficient.
Yeah, my goat's a pussy in reverse...yeah that's it. Thanks Time.
The goatee is the combover of the internet age.
The ubiquitous wearing of baseball caps began around 1990 also - there definitely is a generational chasm between those who need to wear their caps all the time and those who don't. And the goatees came in right around the same time. I always assumed that it was an attempt to balance out the baseball cap - that on many guys the baseball cap without something at the bottom of the face just looked plain dorky.
1. Women generally don't like facial hair.
2. Women generally like feminism.
I think we've got the whole logic of the claim, such as it is, covered there.
As far as the timing goes-
Goatees were part of the whole slacker aesthetic of the early '90s. Indie rock, 'zines, flannel, all that. Which was just the superstructural manifestation of the fact that in the early-90s economy, lots of talented, well-educated twentysomethings couldn't get professional jobs and had to make the best of working in coffeeshops and temping.
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
I've been screaming this since '00. Mullet humor has long ago ceased to be funny. Now it's time to mock those whose faces resemble a hairy vagina.
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
The goatee is the new mullet!
lemuel- I'm having flashbacks to my college days!
It always pissed me off that in the 80's and late 90's the young were considered 'ambitious' while my generation in the early 90's was derided as a lot of slackers when all along it was a manifestation of the damn economy!
I was only in Chicago, Austin, and Amherst during that era.
Wow, the early-90s hipster trifecta! But in Chicago, did you live in Wicker Park?
I've had a goatee since the late 70's, and have never been able to grow a full beard.
What does the tatooed neck symbolize? In my day it stigmatized you as criminally insane.
I had a goatee from approximately 1993 to 1996. The only period in my life I've been anything approaching hip.
I actually wore the Amish beard-with-no-moustache thing for a while in college, because I didn't really like shaving but I didn't like all that prickly hair around my mouth. That was like fifteen years ago and I haven't gone with that look since.
Anyway, the moustache alone has long been a very masculine thing. Gay guys, cops, Latin lovers, Tom Selleck, etc. A lot of hippies go for the complete unshaven look. Goatees? Preston up there is right. Gay guys to hipsters to baseball players to fat guys.
Now it's time to mock those whose faces resemble a hairy vagina.
A hairy vagina? What about the recent flux of unhairy ones? You see, my friend, the "Brazilian wax job" is also a repudiation of feminist ideology. The hair --and thus the power, you see--has conceptually migrated from the "bikini area" to the "patriarchal face,"-- thus signaling a significant paradigm shift in gender roles.
Nordy's correct -- the goatee is the new millennium mullet.
And as someone who had a mullet in the 80s, I proudly sport a goatee now.
I will note that The Mrs -- who's such a far left feminist that she makes me look like Rush Limbaugh, but with ten times the misogyny -- requested I grow the thing in '99, and won't let me shave it off.
It must tickle in just the right way or something ...
I've always thought there was a sizable contingent of balding men who latched onto the goatee as a way to delude themselves into thinking they look cool and young despite the fact that they're bald.
Apparently no one on this thread is old enough to remember the crucial (for goatees) surge in popularity of goats in the late 1980s.
This thread has the best MY comments ever. Thanks, vanya and James Gary.
As for you, Shinyk: goattees/VanDykes came into fashion in the early-to-mid-90s. Metrosexuals were early 00s. If anything, metrosexuals were a backlash against grunge/goattees. By 1996 or so, Dewar's, marketing itself as the "drink for grownups", had billboards showing a bunch of goatteed slackers with the caption, "Ok, we've already done the goattee thing. It's time to move on."
Old joke:
I know a lady who's had so many face lifts, she now has a goatee.
(Think about it)
This thread has the best MY comments ever. Thanks, vanya and James Gary.
Thanks, but I can't accept that award with a clear conscience, since it took all the jaw-muscle control I could muster to not spray coffee all over my Apple Cinema Display while reading cw's "macho" comment at 3:47.
As for you, Shinyk: goattees/VanDykes
I didn't say anything about goatees or Van Dykes.
Far from being a reaction to feminism, it started out as a gay thing. I always thought that on some level it was a statement about guy-on-guy oral sex, but perhaps that's too Freudian an interpretation. And it certainly isn't why I, a gay man, have a goatee, no, not at all.
I can remember a David Letterman top 10 list from 1989 that listed the top 10 reasons why America is better than France.
Number one was: "Americans know that goatees are for weenies" Two years later they were all over American chins.
I always pegged it to Nirvana and the grunge look. It also had to do with the fact that a lot of 19 and 20 year olds couldn't grow a full beard.
And I thought I started wearing a beard to cover what I used to think was a boyish chin... but it's been 25 years, God only knows what it looks like now.
Hmmm. But what about the renewed popularity of sideburns? A backlash against feminism, or a nation of adoring Luke Perry fans?
Oh you youngsters, the goatee as hipster badge actually predates Nirvana by a couple of years. I always associated it with late 80s college indie bands like the Smithereens. The Edge was even sporting one by Rattle and Hum as well (1989?). The truly hip probably started picking it up in the mid-80s - exhibit 1 would be Tom Waits sporting a soulpatch in "Down by Law" (1986). So suck on that, Time Magazine guys.
I never think of Cobain as a "goatee" guy - maybe because he was blonde and not gifted with copious facial hair - personally I'd call the Cobain look simply "unshaven."
The truly hip probably started picking it up in the mid-80s
Right. And the Yglesias-commenter hip were wearing them 6-8 years later.
(I still think it was a subconscious acknowledgement that you weren't going to get that job interview anyway.)
Gee, and all this time I thought the goatees were primarily for dildo frat boys who adopt whatever fashion comes right down Main Street. See also Chuck Todd and Jonah Goldberg, 18 years late to the party.
Stone temple pilots,
They're elegant bachelors
Foxy to me-are they foxy to you?
""Thick moustache, without beard, is very conservative and overtly masculine."
You mean like Freddie Mercury? That kind of overtly masculine?"
What I should have said is "overt male sexuality". Then it brings in gay men as well as Burt Reynolds and Tom Selleck. So perhaps not "conservative".
It's kind of odd. In many quarters people act as though a goatee is some decade specific fashion statement. In actual fact it seems that goatees have been pretty common for a long time, and still are. The kind the was mainly prominent in the 90s was the sans-'stache goat.
Reminds me of a sig I saw recently:
"With great moustache comes great responsibility."
Yeah, that's why everybody called it a 'flavor saver.'
Can someone tell my wife about this? I've been wanting to shave off my goatee for years, but she won't let me!
Comments closed February 26, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
I don't think the goatee was part of it, but yes, there was a huge backlash against feminism in the 1990's. Or do you not remember all of those articles about ticking biological clocks and cocooning, or all the condemnation of political correctness, or all the rest?
Posted by Dilan Esper | February 12, 2008 3:36 PM