The Hagee Factor

John McCain picks up the endorsement of Christian for war John Hagee. The article describes him thusly:

Hagee, who heads a 19,000-member church in San Antonio, is best known for his outspoken support of Israel and writings on the Middle East, where he envisions a blood-soaked clash between East and West leading to the return of Jesus Christ.

Israel, as you may have heard, is actually located in the Middle East and populated by Jews. Thus, it's not obviously in which sense envisioning a blood-soaked Middle East clash that leads to the return of Jesus Christ constitutes support for Israel. AIPAC has decided to embrace the guy, but what he stands for is the destruction of Israel:

He argues that a strike against Iran will cause Arab nations to unite under Russia's leadership, as outlined in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of Ezekiel, leading to an “inferno [that] will explode across the Middle East, plunging the world toward Armageddon.” During his appearance on Hinn's program at the end of last March, for example, the host enthused, “We are living in the last days. These are the most exciting days in church history,” but then went on to add, “We are facing now [the] most dangerous moment for America.” At one point, Hinn clapped his hands in delight and shouted, “Yes! Glory!” and then urged his viewers to donate money faster because he is running out of time to preach the gospel.

Ask yourself if uniting the Arab nations in an anti-Israel alliance under the Russian banner sounds like supporting Israel? To me, it sounds like a disaster.

Meanwhile, Glenn Greenwald sensibly wonders why it is that an African-American politician is expected to deliver thirty lashes to a black Muslim leader with despicable views like Louis Farrakhan, while it's completely acceptable for a white politician to actively and successfully cour the support of a white Christian leader with despicable views like Hagee.

Comments

If the end days are really coming, why would Benny Hinn need *more* money? It seems like he could start tapping capital.

Posted by David B. | February 28, 2008 10:25 AM

Some racists are good for arms sales! Anyone that is good for weapons sales and production cannot by default be an "extremist" and therefore does not need to be both "denounced and rejected"!

Posted by centrist | February 28, 2008 10:37 AM

Answer is, it's not OK. We should be able to demand that McCain denounce Hagee. But too much of this country is absolutely nuts, and politicians are afraid of them.

Posted by TH | February 28, 2008 10:37 AM

...“Yes! Glory!” and then [Hinn] urged his viewers to donate money faster because he is running out of time to preach the gospel.

When Jesus hears stuff this like this, he goes and drinks gin straight out of the cat dish.

"...But the worst are the fundamentalist preachers -- third-rate con men, trying to tell everybody that they speak for Jesus. Oh, and send money! Money, money; money. If Jesus came back -- and saw what was being done in his name... he'd never stop throwing up."

-- Max von Sydow
(Woody Allen's Hannah And Her Sisters)

Posted by Jemand von Niemand | February 28, 2008 10:40 AM

Been awhile, but I was raised Christian..

Where exactly in the Bible does God exige us to bring about the Armageddon? Seems to me that large swaths of the South belong to what is essentially a gnostic cult that is obsessed with doing the Devil's job.

Posted by SAO | February 28, 2008 10:48 AM

I've always argued that all the republicans need is another few thousand batshit crazy religious nutters to help win them an election.

I'm worried not just that McCain won't denounce them, but McCain also hasn't rejected them, which we all know is just totally, totally bad.

Posted by Helter | February 28, 2008 10:54 AM

I pray that Obama isn't too positive and affirmative to go after McCain on shit like this.

Posted by Bill | February 28, 2008 11:04 AM

You obviously haven't met a whole lot of fundamentalists. I remember talking to some guys way (way!) back in college who spouted just this sort of tale.

It's in the Bible, you know. Therefore, it's going to happen. Nothing despicable about it.

It's actually pretty funny when you stop and think about it. The tactics are ancient. I vaguely remember something about entire armies assembling on hills and then getting wiped out.

Posted by ostap | February 28, 2008 11:18 AM

I think it's pretty clear why McCain can get away with accepting Hagee's support, and in fact do it publicly, while Obama cannot.

This is still America everybody.

Posted by Jay | February 28, 2008 11:25 AM

Asked about Mr. Hagee’s extensive writings on Armageddon and about what one questioner said was Mr. Hagee’s belief that the anti-Christ will be the head of the European Union, Mr. McCain responded that “all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee’s support.'’

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/mega-church-pastor-in-texas-backs-mccain/

Posted by otto | February 28, 2008 11:26 AM

Glenn Greenwald is right. The majority of the leaders of the Christian right - Robertson, LaHaye, Dobson, the late Falwell followers - are obscenely intolerant. To them, Jews are a means to an end, the destruction of Israel is a wonderful thing that will bring about the return of Jesus who will then set up his kingdom on earth and all people will convert to Christianity and worship him. These people take this seriously. My father, an Evangelical, Fundamentalist Christian, told me with a straight face that he has not saved any money for he and my mother to retire because Jesus was going to come back in his lifetime. In my atheistic opinion, any of these extreme religious leaders, are dangerous and should be denounced, whether they are Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.

Posted by SN | February 28, 2008 11:27 AM

Armageddon? Not good for the Jews. (Or, for that matter, anyone else). And, ostap, notice that he's not just saying "this is going to happen"; he's calling for actions like a strike on Iran that he himself says will hasten Armageddon.

"After the First World War, Shandor decided that society was too sick to survive. And he wasn't alone. He had close to a thousand followers when he died. They conducted rituals, bizarre rituals, intended to bring about the end of the world."

John Hagee - objectively pro-Gozer.

Posted by ajay | February 28, 2008 11:29 AM

"John Hagee - objectively pro-Gozer."

I lol'ed.

Posted by Mike P | February 28, 2008 11:40 AM

1) The larger question is why do alleged CHRISTIANS support John Hagee. Don't they ever read Matthew 25?

2) Re "If Jesus came back -- and saw what was being done in his name... he'd never stop throwing up"
Actually, I think he would grab a whip and beat the living shit out of John Hagee --as he did to the other money whores.

Posted by Don Williams | February 28, 2008 11:50 AM

Israel knows exactly what Hagee and friends are about, and they play into their beliefs. They discuss reforming the Sanhedran and rebuilding the temple, for example. Each side is gaming the other, and each side knows it. Hagee is setting Israel up for destruction, and Israel is setting Hagee up as propogandist with the U.S. Congress. It's symbiosis.

Posted by Rod | February 28, 2008 11:52 AM

The infatuation of the Government of Israel and preachers like Hagee is a result of the animosity of the mainline Protestant churches toward the State of Israel. It's the old Arab slogan, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Posted by SLC | February 28, 2008 12:04 PM

Its what I said yesterday. Forget the white supremacists -- they are already pretty marginal and McCain will easily distance himself from them. Its the rightwing religious nuts who support McCain that we should question McCain on, in an analogous way to how Obama was questioned on Farrakhan.

Posted by Jim W | February 28, 2008 12:09 PM

Mildly OT

On the way to work a long time ago, I'd pass a sign in front of a Church of God that said, "The only church mentioned by name in the Bible." That sentiment seemed to me to be both horrifying and funny. At work, I related my feelings to a co-worker who, unbeknownst to me, was a Church of God minister in his off-hours.

Check please.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | February 28, 2008 12:14 PM

SLC, no, this isn't just about Protestant veins of anti-Semitism or anti-Israelism.

There really, really are people who think it's our duty to do whatever we need to do to bring about their crazy interpretations of the end of the Earth and the Apocalypse as they believe it from the Bible.

Given that it's based on Biblical nuttery -- and I also grew up among these people -- it has to take place in and involving and around Jerusalem because that's where stuff happens in the Bible.

Though certainly that crazy mindset is in no way going to inhibit them from also having crazy anti-Israel or anti-Jewish prejudices. The seriously crazy religious fundamentalists can make wonderful crazy cocktails of any set of beliefs, contradictory or not.

Posted by El Cid | February 28, 2008 12:30 PM

Only in America could a preacher selling the snake oil of Anti-Arab and anti-Muslim hatred be called on the carpet for being "anti-Israel." Open your eyes. His real crime is his intense hatred of Muslims, not the Jews.

Posted by Matthew | February 28, 2008 12:41 PM

Have any Catholic politicians ever been asked to denounce the Catholic Church's roll in the cover up of the priest sexual abuse scandal?

Posted by Pritesh | February 28, 2008 12:48 PM

"And then God will come down with his Cooosmic DEATH RAY"
~Preacher Dan

Posted by AJ | February 28, 2008 12:50 PM

Re El Cid

My comment was ambiguous because I inadvertently used an "and" instead of a "with". My first sentence should have read, "The infatuation of the Government of Israel with preachers like Hagee is a result of the animosity of the mainline Protestant churches toward the State of Israel" Mainline churches such as the Presbyterian and Episcopal churches have, by and large, been very hostile toward the State of Israel.

Posted by SLC | February 28, 2008 1:05 PM

So let me get this straight: It's not crazy to believe that the Immortal Sky Fairy--sorry, I mean Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ--will return to earth in a "Second Coming." It's only crazy to believe that this will happen in the near future.

Likewise, it's not crazy to believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns. It's only crazy to believe they live in Montana.

Posted by Mixner | February 28, 2008 1:09 PM

"If Jesus came back -- and saw what was being done in his name... he'd never stop throwing up."

Maybe that's the plan? These Snake Oil Salesmen really do believe Jesus is coming back and soon and are worried how they'd fare when Jesus comes back. So they figure that if they can make sure that Jesus, when he comes back, never stops throwing up, then Judgment Day won't be such a bad thing for them -- it'll be hard for the son of god to damn you to hell if he's too busy vomiting to give the order ;)

Posted by DAS | February 28, 2008 1:18 PM

Ask yourself if uniting the Arab nations in an anti-Israel alliance under the Russian banner sounds like supporting Israel?

The standard response of many Jews is

The eschatology of Hagee, et al., is b.s. and we all know that. So, they give us money and political support and we take it? Nu? How does what they believe or why they give us money matter then? They are essentially a bunch of dumb tools we'll use for our purposes ...

Aside from the sheer obnoxiousness of this way of thinking (and then these same Jews complain about "how everybody hates the Jews"? Maybe they are part of the problem of where people get these anti-Semitic stereotypes?), they miss the pernicious influence money can have (c.f. Eisenhower) and that people do subconciously know on which side their bread is butterred: those who take dispensationalists money and political support will eventually do what they can to impliment that agenda. And even if the eschatology behind the agenda is b.s., the agenda still is geared toward inciting war and generally being bad for the long term health of Israel.

In the end, it is those who take the money and support of the dispensationalists who are the tools, not the fundie preachers themselves. But you can't convince a Likudnik -- who buys 100% into the stereotype that he's extraordinarily clever because he's a Jew and extraordinarily tough-minded because he's conservative -- that he's being played rather than is a player. What is it they say about the best stool pigeons being those who think themselves to be con-men?

Posted by DAS | February 28, 2008 1:33 PM

A Catholic bishop's explanation of the error in believing that some will be "raptured" and how the popular Left Behind series has even affected some Catholics...

[Overall, these books reinforce an unhealthy and immature belief in a harshly judgmental God whose mercy we earn by good behavior. In response to reading them, Catholic catechists have been observed confusing and even frightening children in religious education programs by teaching the "rapture" as if it were an article of Catholic faith. There is also real danger that Catholics persuaded by this agenda may judge other people on spiritual fitness for the "rapture."]

Posted by Scott | February 28, 2008 1:38 PM

An unidentified Catholic bishop writes:

Overall, these books reinforce an unhealthy and immature belief in a harshly judgmental God whose mercy we earn by good behavior. ....

As opposed to the Catholic teaching about God, which is that he forbids masturbation, contraception and gay sex, among countless other things, and that he punishes unrepentant sinners with eternal--and thus, infinite--suffering in hell. Yeah, the Catholic God is clearly much less harsh and judgmental than Hagee's.

Posted by Mixner | February 28, 2008 2:04 PM

Likewise, it's not crazy to believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns. It's only crazy to believe they live in Montana. - Mixner

You are correct, sir. While Invisible Pink Unicorns have been known to vacation in MT and other locations in the Rockies, they rarely move to any state in the Mountain West. Invisible Pink Unicorns generally prefer to live in climates that don't require them to have to purchase invisible coats (which are expensive and Invisible Pink Uniforms are notoriously cheap). Generally you find Invisible Pink Unicorns living in places like the Hawaiian Islands or Galveston, TX.

OTOH, Invisible Blue Tetracorns frequently decide to make their homes in Missoula ... although they rent them to Invisible Pink Unicorns for the summer tourist season if they decide to summer in Hyannisport as Invisible Blue Tetracorns often do.

Posted by DAS | February 28, 2008 2:10 PM

DAS writes:

"The standard response of many Jews is

The eschatology of Hagee, et al., is b.s. and we all know that. So, they give us money and political support and we take it? Nu? How does what they believe or why they give us money matter then? They are essentially a bunch of dumb tools we'll use for our purposes ...

Aside from the sheer obnoxiousness of this way of thinking (and then these same Jews complain about "how everybody hates the Jews"? Maybe they are part of the problem of where people get these anti-Semitic stereotypes?)....you can't convince a Likudnik -- who buys 100% into the stereotype that he's extraordinarily clever because he's a Jew and extraordinarily tough-minded because he's conservative -- that he's being played rather than is a player."

Dude - you need help. Seriously. You are raving.

BTW - if you actually read Hagee's work (a bit much to ask libs to actually read this kind of thing, I know), he (like most evangelical protestants) (a) view the Jews as G-d's chosen people because the Bible says so, and (b) supports Israel not because of any end of times silliness, but because it is the right and moral thing to do. Unlike the left wing Christians, the evangelicals long ago gave up on supercessionism. Notably, Hagee has said that the European Christians generally aided and abetted Hitler and are responsible for the Holocaust, that these "Christians" did so because of mistaken belief in supercessionism, and that the Christians in America have a religious obligation to protect Israel and the Jews from Ahmedenajad and other Moslems("Israel is a bacteria," "Jews are pigs and monkeys") of a similar mind (which, giving them the benefit of the doubt, is about 80% of Moslems worldwide).

Posted by Eagle613 | February 28, 2008 2:17 PM

I live less than two miles away from Hagee's mega church. On occasion, I have visions of infiltrating a Sunday service to find out just how loony his "flock" his. But alas, parking is a bitch.

Posted by stephen | February 28, 2008 2:27 PM

Poor Stephen. It must be so very hard to be so much smarter and better and more grounded than all those other "loony" people who live around you, and make parking such a bitch. Too bad those poor, benighted souls don't just listen to you, eh?

Posted by Eagle613 | February 28, 2008 2:33 PM

Where is the IRS investigation about this? I'm assuming that the church is a tax-exempt entity, and if Hagee is using church time or resources to make this endorsement, his church needs to lose tax exempt status.

Posted by Trigger | February 28, 2008 2:42 PM

why it is that an African-American politician is expected to deliver thirty lashes to a black Muslim leader with despicable views like Louis Farrakhan, while it's completely acceptable for a white politician to actively and successfully cour the support of a white Christian leader with despicable views like Hagee.

Doesn't asking the question answer it? Seems pretty damn self-evident to me...

Posted by McKingford | February 28, 2008 4:06 PM

The equally nutty William Donahue from the Catholic League has requested McCain denounce Hagee for his anti-Catholic views. I'm not sure whether Donahue demanded McCain to reject any statements Hagee has made. I'm not sure whether there was any repudiation involved.

Posted by An Outhouse | February 28, 2008 4:52 PM

First, Hagee is quite popular with major Jewish pro-Israel oganizations. They like the money he raises for Israel and aren't terribly worried that he actually will bring about the Rapture.

Second, the more precise analogy would be if had McCain attended Hagee's church for the last 20 years, had written 22 pages about him in his first book, and had lifted the title of his second book from him.

Posted by Steve Sailer | February 28, 2008 4:57 PM

Dude - you need help. Seriously. You are raving. - Eagle613

I need help? I'm raving?

Have you ever hung out with wanna-be Likudniks and actual (Southern) fundies? I have.

E.g., in the run-up to the Iraq war, I can't even count how many times some young, AIPAC wannabe would try to disuade me from my opposition to the Iraq war with an argument of "even if you don't think this war would be good for America, as a Jew, you should support this war because it's good for Israel -- and isn't it wonderful that we Jews are so clever that Israel can get America to fight its wars for it?" ... I betcha, though, these same Likudniks in training then go about and complain about Walt and Mearsheimer for criticizing the same influence that they themselves brag about.

OTOH, now I've moved from NJ to the South. And indeed it is true that there is a certain respect (Southern) evangelicals/fundamentalists have for us Jews -- it's almost better to be a Jew here (and just shut up about what your religion says about certain things) than to be secular or even nominally Christian. Still, the fundies do still believe that ultimately, even if we get the first-class chosen people's rooms there, we Jews are still going to hell unless we accept Jesus. And they still seek the downfall of Israel ... as does Hagee (unless you're willing to argue that MY and others are misquoting Hagee).

Hagee, et al., do reject supersessionism perhaps, but dispensationalism is alive and well and not really friendly to the long term health of Israel when you think about it.

Posted by DAS | February 28, 2008 5:09 PM

DAS writes:

"I can't even count how many times some young, AIPAC wannabe would try to disuade me from my opposition to the Iraq war with an argument of "even if you don't think this war would be good for America, as a Jew, you should support this war because it's good for Israel -- and isn't it wonderful that we Jews are so clever that Israel can get America to fight its wars for it?" ... I betcha, though, these same Likudniks in training then go about and complain about Walt and Mearsheimer for criticizing the same influence that they themselves brag about."

Calling you out on this one, brother. AIPAC did NOT take a position on the Iraq war. There is plenty of evidence that Israel was NOT in favor of the US invasion, and in fact, there were voices in the Israeli military counselling AGAINST this action. However, in the face of US pressure, the Israelis had to shut up and salute (much as they have had to shut up and swallow the hundreds of missles launched against Sderot, and much as they shut up and swallowed the missles from Iraq in Gulf War I). And, knowing and working with many "AIPAC wannabes", your claims simply do not ring true to me. If anything, the AIPAC wannabes were terrified that the libs (that's you) would join the Islamists to blame the Jews and Israel for Iraq, amping up the already pounding anti-Semitic screech on campuses, in the UN, in the newspapers, etc. (Which of course is exactly what happened. Odd bedfellows, anti-Semitism makes - what other issue would have united leftists in common cause with the world's most reactionary forces? Instead, both, in unison, were happily hollering about how the Jews are responsible for the world's ills).

And BTW, do you even know what a "Likudnik" is? Here's a quiz, just for fun: How many seats in Israel's Knesset does the Likud have? Is it a religous party or a secular party? Are its members mostly Askenazic Jews or Sephardic Jews from Arab countries? What is its position on the "Who is a Jew" question? Are its members primarily from large cities or small towns? Has it ever favored land for peace (hint - remember Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat)?

Quite honestly, the term "Likudnik" is used on the left without regard for substance or fact. Instead, it is nothing more than a label meant to slur, a short-hand substitute for rational thinking.

Finally, yes, I know many Southern fundies. They are fine people. They work hard, they give back to their communities, they send the children into the Service, they believe in America, and I'm damn proud and glad to be associated with them. Be honest - if you had to choose someone to cover your back, and stand by you in a fight, who would you pick - a Southern fundie or a Harvard-educated lib?

Posted by Eagle613 | February 28, 2008 7:27 PM

The Arabs uniting under Russia's leadership to invade Israel is just the start of Hagee's interpretation of Ezekiel and Revelation. In 'Jerusalem Countdown,' Hagee says that the West will ignore this invasion. God will completely destroy the combined armed forces of Russia and the Arab world, that is to say, kill every last fighting man in a smiting that will leave Israel picking up the guns and disposing of the bodies for months or years on end. This battle is NOT Armageddon.

The instantaneous destruction of Russia and the Arab world (incidentally, Hagee doesn't seem to realize that Iranians are not Arab and that Arab and Muslim are not the same thing) will create a power vacuum making way for the rise of the Antichrist, leader of the EU. It all culminates in China marching West to invade Israel themselves (now capitol of the Antichrist's World Government, who has by this time rebuilt the Temple and declared himself God) leading to a massive East/West showdown which is when Christ comes back and the forces of man and God face off. The blood is supposed to fill the entire surface of Israel a few feet deep. After that, Christ will start his 1000 year kingdom on Earth.

It is lunacy, and it demonstrates a really poor understanding of international politics, but that's what these guys think.

Posted by Zakk | February 28, 2008 7:30 PM

Blogwhoring: Did you know that in 1996 Hagee held a "slave sale" as a fundraiser?

http://saucersofmud.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/john-mccain-embraces-crazy-bigot/

The quote in his church bulletin was

"Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone Sunday night (March 31, 1996) with the Senior High School Slave Sale."

http://www.amarillo.com/stories/110200/bel_chains.shtml

Hagee seems to get a pass on many kinds of bigoted lunacy, but this may be a bridge too far.

Posted by Matt Weiner | February 28, 2008 8:52 PM

Re Eagle613 comment "There is plenty of evidence that Israel was NOT in favor of the US invasion, and in fact, there were voices in the Israeli military counselling AGAINST this action. However, in the face of US pressure, the Israelis had to shut up and salute (much as they have had to shut up and swallow the hundreds of missles launched against Sderot, and much as they shut up and swallowed the missles from Iraq in Gulf War I). "
---------------
1) BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT.

The record is clear. In 2002, Ariel Sharon sent Bibi Nathanyahu to Tell the US COngress -- and the AMERICAN PEOPLE -- that Saddam needed to be taken out before he acquired and used nukes. Ariel Sharon's personal spokemans pounded that message home several more times in 2002.

2) IF anyone has any doubt that Ariel Sharon and the Likud suckered 4000 American soldiers to their deaths then I suggest that they look at the DOCUMENTED RECORD:

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/aipac_and_iraq.php#comment-654345

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/aipac_and_iraq.php#comment-654354

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/aipac_and_iraq.php#comment-654366

I repeat the question:

"Has Mossad found Saddam's nukes yet? "

3) I don't blame the Israel people as a whole --but I think Likud has shown itself to be an ENEMY to America -- an enemy which we should exterminate.

By telling Israel that the day a Likud politician is elected to any post is the day America's $3 Billion per year aid STOPS, our military protection is Rescinded, and more steps will follow.

Posted by Don Williams | February 28, 2008 9:07 PM

Likud delenda est.

Posted by DOn Williams | February 28, 2008 9:09 PM

Meanwhile, Glenn Greenwald sensibly wonders why it is that an African-American politician is expected to deliver thirty lashes to a black Muslim leader with despicable views like Louis Farrakhan, while it's completely acceptable for a white politician to actively and successfully cour the support of a white Christian leader with despicable views like Hagee.

More to the point why is he expected to deliver thirty lashes because of Farrakhan's antisemitism, but not because of his anticaucasianism?

I am probably one of the few pre-tribulation rapture premillennialists who does not think that we ought to be trying to hasten Armageddon. I say let God work on His own schedule.

Posted by Glaivester | February 28, 2008 10:23 PM

"There is plenty of evidence that Israel was NOT in favor of the US invasion"

Don correctly refutes this crap. It is a KNOWN FACT that Israel wanted the US to attack IRAN first. It was only later in 2002 that Israel came around to the notion of attacking Iraq, after US neocons assured the Israelis that Iran would be next.

As for the "Rapture", I prefer to think of it as the "Rupture", following the Church of the SubGenius line that when the "Fightin' Jesus" comes back, the only people who are going to be "Ruptured" are the fundamentalist Christians who forgot that he was a good Jew with no intention of starting a new religion - still less one that would persecute his own people in his name for the next two thousand years.

They are gonna HURT when the real Jesus comes back!

The Church of the SubGenius promise: "Eternal salvation or triple your money back."

When it comes to Christians, remember the words of "Bob": "If You Act Like A Dumbshit, They'll Treat You As An Equal".

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | February 28, 2008 11:34 PM

The record is clear. In 2002, Ariel Sharon sent Bibi Nathanyahu to Tell the US COngress -- and the AMERICAN PEOPLE -- that Saddam needed to be taken out before he acquired and used nukes. Ariel Sharon's personal spokemans pounded that message home several more times in 2002. - Don Williams

Ariel Sharon and Bibi Netanyahu =/= Israel!

*

AIPAC did NOT take a position on the Iraq war. - Eagle613

Did I say AIPAC took such a position? I wasn't refering to the organization's party line, I was referring to "young AIPAC wannabes" ...

And yes, I do know what a Likudnik is. The people I'm referring to would, if they weren't such chickenhawks and would actually make Aliya, definitely vote for Likud -- not a religious party, etc., etc. -- if they had the chance.

And, frankly, I'd want neither a Southern Fundie nor a Harvard weenie (no offense, MY) defending me if "it came to fisticuffs" -- I have far more effective defenders than I either at my, um, disposal.

*

Anyway, to all y'all who think that Hagee is some friend of Israel's and of we Jews ... look upstairs on MY's blog (sorry about the Harvard weenie statement, Matt -- y'all know we lurve y'all! :) ).

Posted by DAS | February 29, 2008 10:25 AM

I am probably one of the few pre-tribulation rapture premillennialists who does not think that we ought to be trying to hasten Armageddon. I say let God work on His own schedule. - Glaivester

Dunno how they stood on the issue of pre vs. post-tribulation rapture (or any rapture for that matter) but back in the day most premillennialists felt like you do about God working on His own schedule.

Posted by DAS | February 29, 2008 10:29 AM

Well, it's pretty obvious. AIPAC and their crew regard Hagee and his "Christian Zionists" as useful idiots. Obviously, they don't give a shit about this Armageddon claptrap, because they know it ain't gonna happen. But in the meantime, if Hagee can help keep Congress voting for more subsidies for Israel's army and for more cover for its mini-empire in the West Bank, hey, who's gonna say no to that??

Posted by Egypt Steve | February 29, 2008 4:56 PM

Only in America could a preacher selling the snake oil of Anti-Arab and anti-Muslim hatred be called on the carpet for being "anti-Israel." Open your eyes. His real crime is his intense hatred of Muslims, not the Jews.

The difference is that Hagee is openly anti-Muslim, and doesn't masquerade as an Arab-lover. He does, however, masquerade as an Israel-lover (and gets a surprising amount of credibility as one from the credulous) when in fact his ideology is anti-Semitic and his policy prescriptions are profoundly destructive to Israel. His views on Arabs and Muslims don't need to be unmasked - anyone with a room-temperature IQ can see them for what they are - but his views on Jews and Israel do.

Posted by Jonathan Edelstein | February 29, 2008 6:55 PM

Dispensationalism--the theological system including the rapture, the centrality of Israel, the bloody battle of Armageddon culminating in the second coming of Jesus in power and glory-- is alive and well in the Southern Baptist churches of which McCain and his family are a part. McCain has renounced his Episcopal upbringing which theology typically does not include such violent end times events. To have people who hold such a violent end-of-the-world theology in political power is downright scary. It leads to the idea that it doesn't matter what we do in the Middle East because the Lord is going to come and beam us up out of the mess anyway. It would be interesting to know how many others in Congress hold to this viewpoint.

Posted by can-ex | February 29, 2008 7:18 PM

Steve Sailer wrote:

Second, the more precise analogy would be if had McCain attended Hagee's church for the last 20 years, had written 22 pages about him in his first book, and had lifted the title of his second book from him.

Obama goes to Jeremiah Wright's church, not Louis Farrakhan's. The straw that wingnuts are grasping at is that Obama respects someone who respects someone else for reasons other than that someone else's anti-semitic views.

Haaretz quoted Obama as saying "My view is that the United States' special relationship with Israel obligates us to be helpful to them in the search for credible partners with whom they can make peace, while also supporting Israel in defending itself against enemies sworn to its destruction,"

AND

"We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs."

AND

"Our job is to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the region. That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That will always be my starting point."

Did you need him to be more specific?

Posted by Jon Miller | March 1, 2008 12:53 PM

AMERICA HAS BEEN BLESSED WITH GUIDANCE IN PASTOR HAGEE'S EXCITING WORD OF PROPHECY!!!

"John McCain is a man of principle!!!!"

SO TRUE!!!! SO TRUE!!!! SO TRUE!!!!

A MAN OF PRINCIPLE!!! A MAN OF PRINCIPLE!!! A MAN OF PRINCIPLE!!!

PASTOR HAGEE'S ENDORSEMENT ALSO VINDICATES AND AFFIRMS AMERICAPHILE'S ANALYIS!!!!

NOW, AMERICA'S GREATEST PRESIDENT NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE BEAUTIFUL COULTER PLAN FOR MIDDLE EAST STABILITY!!! WHAT A BEAUTIFUL GIFT TO SENATOR MCCAIN, TO AMERICA, TO ISRAEL AND TO THE PEOPLE OF IRAN WHO ARE COMPLETELY UNAWARE ABOUT THE COMING RAPTURE!!!

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD IS THE PERSIAN PIAPS!!!!

STRIKE NOW, MR. PRESIDENT, AND SPREAD FREEDOM!!!!

THANK YOU, PASTOR HAGEE, FOR EXPOSING POPERY!!!!!

REMEMBER, THE ROMAN POPE HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS AN AGENT OF PIAPS!!!!

THANK YOU, TOO, FOR READING AMERICAPHILE!!!!

THE IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS PROVIDED BY AMERICAPHILE CAN BE FOUND NOWHERE ELSE!!!

ALSO, THE MORNING AFTER IS A POWERFUL TOOL FOR WITNESSING AND PREPARING SERMONS!!!!

SENATOR MCCAIN, PLEASE READ THIS EXCITING FACT-BASED ONLINE NOVEL YOURSELF!!!! A PRINTOUT HAS BEEN SENT TO YOUR CAMPAIGN HEADQUARTERS!!! IT IS WHAT EVERY CANDIDATE NEEDS TO INFORM AN INTELLEGENT FOREIGN POLICY!!!!

THANKS AGAIN, PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN PASTOR JOHN HAGEE!!!

SEE YOU ALL AT THE RAPTURE!!!!!

Posted by RALPH | March 1, 2008 9:59 PM

We may really be in the Last Days. Or maybe I am one too many R&Cs to the good but the line between satire, irony, and wingnuttery sometimes gets a lot blurred. I DO KNOW THAT CAPS LOCK IS A BAD SIGN.

As are exclamation points beyond three. Yours in satiric solidarity my friend. Or get some meds on Monday.

Posted by Bruce Webb | March 1, 2008 10:49 PM

In my own hometown of Anchorage AK last thursday there was a Christians for Israel event that attracted the attention of 300 or so folks. There are two rabbis in this town and one stayed far away, refusing to have anything to do with it. The other was very prominent in his support for it. They served Kosher food, and treated him with great respect. They were very explicit in the fact that they were not evangelizing.

At the Sabbath luncheon in the home of the supportive rabbi, I reminded him that Zionism began with Theodore Hertzl's book "Auto-emancipation." If you want to depend on the other nations, (say that in Hebrew, and you know what I mean) then you can't claim to be true to the Zionist dream.

Another man pointed out that Christians were originally supportive of Jews, but when Jews refused to join the church, came the Crusades. When Luther left the Catholic church, he thought Jews would join his new, improved church, and he spoke lovingly about them. When they (we) didn't, his venom knew no limits. Mohammed loved the Jews, too, calling them the People of the Book, and decreeing that they should be protected. When they didn't convert to Islam, began the antipathy and hatred toward Jews that led to mass murder. Christians for Israel love us now, but what happens when?

On the other hand, I don't live in Israel (yet.) Therefore, I can be very brave as I sit safely in my beautiful suburban home and tell Israel to give her supporters the back of her hand. But considering how parlous is her predicament, she may be forgiven for taking her support where she finds it. Or so some would say.

Posted by Big Mitch | March 2, 2008 6:22 AM

In my own hometown of Anchorage AK last thursday there was a Christians for Israel event that attracted the attention of 300 or so folks. There are two rabbis in this town and one stayed far away, refusing to have anything to do with it. The other was very prominent in his support for it. They served Kosher food, and treated him with great respect. They were very explicit in the fact that they were not evangelizing.

At the Sabbath luncheon in the home of the supportive rabbi, I reminded him that Zionism began with Theodore Hertzl's book "Auto-emancipation." If you want to depend on the other nations, (say that in Hebrew, and you know what I mean) then you can't claim to be true to the Zionist dream.

Another man pointed out that Christians were originally supportive of Jews, but when Jews refused to join the church, came the Crusades. When Luther left the Catholic church, he thought Jews would join his new, improved church, and he spoke lovingly about them. When they (we) didn't, his venom knew no limits. Mohammed loved the Jews, too, calling them the People of the Book, and decreeing that they should be protected. When they didn't convert to Islam, began the antipathy and hatred toward Jews that led to mass murder. Christians for Israel love us now, but what happens when?

On the other hand, I don't live in Israel (yet.) Therefore, I can be very brave as I sit safely in my beautiful suburban home and tell Israel to give her supporters the back of her hand. But considering how parlous is her predicament, she may be forgiven for taking her support where she finds it. Or so some would say.

Posted by Big Mitch | March 2, 2008 6:24 AM

Why don't Hagee and Donahue settle this like men? Find a thunder storm, hold a sun umbrella, and let god decide who speaks for him.

Posted by Howard V Dynaem | March 3, 2008 9:05 AM