The Party of Lame

One slightly odd fact about the Clinton-Obama race is that it has such clear undertones of a cool versus uncool dynamic. Obama has "Yes We Can", Clinton has Celine Dion. Obama likes The Wire, Clinton likes Ugly Betty. Given that there are serious issues in play in the country -- war, health care, climate change -- it all seems a bit unbecoming. But at least Obama supporters get to be on the "cool" side of the dichotomy. Alex Joseph tells the tale of woe of the student for Clinton:

I'm a young male Democrat, and I support ... Hillary Clinton. I may be the loneliest man at Georgetown University, where I'm practically a social pariah. Supporting Hillary on a college campus this year is like being a Yankees fan at a Red Sox game, a Barry Manilow lover at a Radiohead concert.

It's a good piece. Of course on another level, once you take the gender dynamics into account ("Among young Hillary supporters, men are virtually nonexistent. Of the 60 members of Facebook's "Hilltop—Georgetown Students for Hillary" group, only seven are men.") the young male Hillary fan on campus may not be in such bad shape.

Comments

This recalls to mind a recent quote from Obama in which he described his recent college grad staff as appearing to have emerged from a "Benetton Ad."

Substitute "Gap" for "Benetton" and you have a pretty good rule of thumb for describing the political instincts of Gen Y.

Posted by dry_fish | February 5, 2008 12:59 PM

Reagan made conservatism cool. Never underestimate the power of cool.

Posted by Mark | February 5, 2008 1:02 PM

"While I hoped this was because of my good looks and charm, as other volunteers trickled in, I realized it was because I was the only man, and was 20 years younger than anyone else in the room."

A young male Clinton supporter's social prospects may be a bit grimmer than your post lets on.

Posted by tequila | February 5, 2008 1:05 PM

Of course on another level, once you take the gender dynamics into account ("Among young Hillary supporters, men are virtually nonexistent. Of the 60 members of Facebook's "Hilltop—Georgetown Students for Hillary" group, only seven are men.") the young male Hillary fan on campus may not be in such bad shape.

As he points out in the article, it apparently doesn't work out the way you are imagining.

Posted by Al | February 5, 2008 1:08 PM

Pandering to a woman's political beliefs just to get laid?

God, who would ever do such a thing?

Posted by Don Williams | February 5, 2008 1:09 PM

a Barry Manilow lover at a Radiohead concert.

Why am I now imagining Radiohead and Barry Manilow teaming up?

Posted by DAS | February 5, 2008 1:10 PM

Seeing the "yes we can" video, as well as watching Obama speak in Mass last night, really reinforces that Axelrod's campaign is all about branding. Obama's campaign is absolutely engaging in branding - it's selling its own apparel, it has to my mind the snazziest logo of all the campaigns.

I think it's a great idea. My understanding is that the 'W' brand is really what won it in 2004 (I wouldn't know, being in a solid blue state). Obama's campaign is positioning him as the Apple of the race - the hip, high-end option with the passionate base. A good way to go, to my mind.

Posted by ArtB | February 5, 2008 1:11 PM

Obama has "Yes We Can"

Since when is Bob the Builder cool?

Posted by Ralph Phelan | February 5, 2008 1:15 PM

Even Hillary looks surprised that the author is supporting her!

Posted by Marshall | February 5, 2008 1:16 PM

One of the stragest things about this dynamic is that Clinton seems to be going out of her way to target stereotypical women by employing stereotypes, and yet you'd think that demographic would need the least targeting. Or else she just isn't very hip and hasn't hired anybody who knows how to help.

Posted by Galen | February 5, 2008 1:17 PM

He's really Roberto the Builder co-opting Cesar Chavez.

Posted by Jen | February 5, 2008 1:22 PM

There's unquestionably something to this. Hillary is definitely the nerd in this race, and I'd be lying if I said that had nothing to do with why my wife and I are voting for her.

The media dynamic against her really reminds me of the way they treated Gore--but she's much better at dealing with it.

Posted by gustav | February 5, 2008 1:23 PM

I hear Clinton folks have started singing "yes She can," missing the point entirely.

Posted by blindjoedeath | February 5, 2008 1:24 PM

a Barry Manilow lover at a Radiohead concert.

Hm. In my mind the distinction is far more nuanced. Hillary and Obama are, respectively, more like the Counting Crows and the Foo Fighters.

Posted by James Gary | February 5, 2008 1:28 PM

A young male Clinton supporter's social prospects may be a bit grimmer than your post lets on.

That young male needs to be more open-minded. I have to say that DC's late 30s/early 40s women are extremely sexy.

Hillary is definitely the nerd in this race

I disagree. One of the features of a nerd is someone whose tastes are almost so off-the-wall as to be incomprehensible. Hillary isn't so much the nerd in this race as the bumbling middle-aged parent of the race. In comparison, Gore, remember, publicly said he was a fan of Frank Zappa.

Posted by Tyro | February 5, 2008 1:32 PM

I don't expect you to understand this, it's sort of within boomer culture, i.e., the oldest boomers vs. the majority of boomers.

Except for the appearance on Arsenio where he played the sax (which I think helped him a great deal), the Clintons were never cool for most boomers.

They had terrible early boomer taste: Elvis, Kenny G, naming their daughter after a song by Joni Mitchell, Maya Angelou poetry, YEECH. For crying out loud, Bill was attracted to big hair, Paula Jones and Jennifer Flowers, like the bloated Elvis himself. Then there was stuff like them bringing that Arkansas decorator to do Victorian geegaw in some areas of the White House. They were in short, tacky, no class, clueless about American culture.

Same with Al & Tipper Gore, the Love Story stuff, Tipper the enemy number one to our icon Frank Zappa....the born-again Christianity thingie...

But many of us put that aside and admired what Bill did in office and adored his awesome political abilities and charm. He made us smile, he was the goofy older brother who loved Elvis.

Posted by artappraiser | February 5, 2008 1:33 PM

Even Hillary looks surprised that the author is supporting her!

Looks to me more likes he's goosing her. "No oedipal reasons" for his support my @$$.

Wonder if she'll let him be an intern?

Posted by Ralph Phelan | February 5, 2008 1:34 PM

"yes She can," missing the point entirely

Yeah, that sounds about right. If you had to paint the distinction in three words or less, that's probably it.

And, just what to point out, in what planet is being editor of the Harvard Law Review *not* nerdy? Did he really have to head up the Dr. Who Fan Club, too?

Posted by Jen | February 5, 2008 1:38 PM

naming their daughter after a song by Joni Mitchell

I thought she was named after the Leonard Cohen song--isn't her full name "Chelsea Hotel No. 2 Clinton?"

Posted by James Gary | February 5, 2008 1:39 PM

Did he really have to head up the Dr. Who Fan Club, too?

As treasurer of my college's live-action role-playing society, I feel I am qualified to judge. Thus, I can answer, "Yes, yes he did."

Posted by Tyro | February 5, 2008 1:41 PM

Hillary and Obama are, respectively, more like the Counting Crows and the Foo Fighters.

Um, no.

Hillary is U2. Obama is Daft Punk.

That is all.

Posted by ethan salto | February 5, 2008 1:45 PM

Hillary is not U2. Hillary is Celine Dion.

Posted by blindjoedeath | February 5, 2008 1:54 PM

Celine Dion is plenty cool for my mom, a big Hillary supporter. Hillary didn't try to go after the youth vote at first, they went after the middle-aged women's vote. And they are doing extremely well with that group. Don't assume that because you or the internets or blogs think something is "cool" that the vast majority of people who do NOT spend lots of time on the web or lots of time in school do.

Posted by evie | February 5, 2008 1:59 PM

I've said it before, I'll say it again: If Hillary switches to "The Bitch Is Back," she's got my vote. And if she and Elton don matching rhinestone shades, I might even have to donate.

Posted by stone cold sober | February 5, 2008 2:19 PM

The morphing of Hillary into Richard Nixon proceeds apace.

Posted by ChuckE | February 5, 2008 2:21 PM

It is all branding. If you look up cool in the M-W online dictionary you actually get an Obama ad.
That is excellent targeting and saturation.

Posted by boomers are neither cool nor hip | February 5, 2008 2:41 PM

evie, people old enough to have children who comment on weblogs don't get to decide what cool is, they only get to have stuff they like/dislike. approve or not, this is the law of cool.....

Posted by old person | February 5, 2008 2:47 PM

"Is Obama a Mac and Clinton a PC?"
NYT, Feb.4th

Posted by nbt | February 5, 2008 2:51 PM

Celine Dion is hugely dorky and way uncool. A classic Hillary supporter.

Posted by ken | February 5, 2008 2:51 PM

Obama is Vegas and Hillary is Branson, MO.

Posted by Susan | February 5, 2008 2:53 PM

It's the Wire vs. the Sopranoes. Remember Hillary's ad with them in the diner?

It's literally the Clinton Mafia. They had this election/coronation wrapped up until an upstart was convinced by Senator Durbin to join in. I think it's cool that this upstart's favorite character on his favorite show is a gay street Robin Hood who can fly.

What's Edwards going to do? Where oh where is Petey?

My favorite bit from the slate piece:

Am I just doing it to get a date? No, and unfortunately, it's having the opposite effect. Being a college guy who supports Hillary is a like being the jock who takes the women's studies class to pick up girls.

Cool is the conciliation prize for the underdogs/losers.

Posted by Peter K. | February 5, 2008 2:54 PM

Of the 60 members of Facebook's "Hilltop—Georgetown Students for Hillary" group, only seven are men.") the young male Hillary fan on campus may not be in such bad shape.

C'mon. They sleep with the Obama guys, and then cry to the Hillary guys about the jerks they're sleeping with.

Posted by Njorl | February 5, 2008 3:01 PM

I've said it before, I'll say it again: If Hillary switches to "The Bitch Is Back," she's got my vote.... stone cold sober @ 2:19 PM

This is an excellent idea! I think it would work astoundingly well. I'm serious! Stop playing the Mom and apple pie wholesome America games, nobody believes that any more except the rightie fundies.

Celine Dion is plenty cool for my mom.... they went after the middle-aged women's vote... evie | February 5, 2008 1:59 PM

In my opinion, your Mom has the tastes of a greatest gen person, not a boomer. I am a middle-aged woman and everyone I know in my age group makes Celine Dion jokes. She reminds us of being forced to watch The Lennon Sisters on Lawrence Welk when we were little kids. Or of Barbra, who despite being labeled the uber-liberal, always was on the far side of hip, super late on the trends her whole life, Mike Myers as Linda Richman got he fan base well there. Or old fashioned Las Vegas culture. Yeech.

BUT OBAMA'S SHTICK does a similar thing as well! Kumbaya, Kennedy's. Yeech. It's not cool to bring up that naivete thing that for most boomers, it's embarassing. We want our irony and our jadedness and we want it now. We want someone savvy, not corny. The Clintons had corny cultural tastes but were savvy about politics. Chris Matthews blathering about the Peace Corps and Kennedy's, it's just plain embarassing for someone who has lived for a while and knows what reality is like to be doing that.

The main thing Obamamania brings to mind for me is the line at the end of the movie Primary Colors where the women in the receiving line says
"now don't break our hearts." He's really not offering much cool that I can see, just rewarmed shtick. His speechwriter openly admits he goes for inspiration to RFK. How can RFK be cool? When are the younger generations going to stop falling for retro and do their own thing? You're all going to wake up and realize he's not cool at all.

Posted by artappraiser | February 5, 2008 3:07 PM

It's the Wire vs. the Sopranoes. Remember Hillary's ad with them in the diner?...Peter K. @ 2:54 PM

This is a much better analogy than a lot of things on this thread. That really gets the generation gap between the boomer mass and the younger generations. Celine Dion confuses things, it inserts greatest generation tastes--Celine Dion is part and parcel of the Clinton's cluelessness about culture and the Sopranos ad was a rare savvy presentation, just like the sax- playing Bill on Arsenio.

Posted by artappraiser | February 5, 2008 3:14 PM

Anecdotally speaking, based on two public endorsements that appeared in my facebook feed, the sexy feminist went for Clinton while the insecure, bordering-on-pathetic writing teacher supports Obama.

Based on this, I could make the counter-intuitive speculation that those who are secure in their coolness support Clinton and thus don't need other "easy" outlets of cultural validation that supporting Obama provides those who don't know what else to do in their search for coolness.

Posted by Tyro | February 5, 2008 3:18 PM

This has got to be one of the lamest posts ever.

Posted by willyjsimmons | February 5, 2008 3:19 PM

I thought she was named after the Leonard Cohen song--isn't her full name "Chelsea Hotel No. 2 Clinton?"

Presumably the opening verse resonated with Bill:

I remember you well at the Chelsea Hotel
You were talking so brave and so sweet
Giving me head on the unmade bed
While the limousines wait in the street

Posted by JB | February 5, 2008 3:37 PM

Either way, boo on the Boomers if they find either Joni Mitchell or Leonard Cohen distasteful. Should they have named their daughter after a Pink Floyd lyric? Gimme a break.

Posted by gerontion | February 5, 2008 3:44 PM

Here's a fashion critique of both candidates
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Vote2008/story?id=4243961&page=1

Posted by nbt | February 5, 2008 3:58 PM

Presumably the opening verse resonated with Bill:

Yes. (I try to include "Easter Egg" references like that in my comments here as often as I can. It's nice to know they're appreciated.)

Posted by James Gary | February 5, 2008 4:01 PM

Obama is running a great campaign and your post shows why. You are writing about cool vs uncool instead of rich vs poor or highly credential vs non-credential. His generational appeal obscures the fact that Obama is the choice of the better off segment of Democratic voters. Take away his enormous support among African-Americans and Obama is Howard Dean/Bill Bradley/Paul Tsongas.

Posted by blur | February 5, 2008 4:04 PM

But blur, that's exactly the point. Neither Dean nor Bradley nor Tsongas could ever get that all-important Democratic group behind them. Had any of them succeeded in that, they would have ended up the nominee (now, president? that's another story).

Posted by Greg | February 5, 2008 4:27 PM

They sleep with the Obama guys, and then cry to the Hillary guys about the jerks they're sleeping with.

Yep, I think that's the winner.

Posted by low-tech cyclist | February 5, 2008 4:33 PM

Take away his enormous support among African-Americans...

... and if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather.

This line of reasoning is no different than the common Republican refrain, "if it weren't for the black vote, the Democrats would lose every election in a landslide."

Posted by Tyro | February 5, 2008 4:45 PM

This line of reasoning is no different than the common Republican refrain, "if it weren't for the black vote, the Democrats would lose every election in a landslide."

That nails it. Note the oh-so-subtle implication that Black voters are somehow superfluous voters. "If we didn't have to count all these extra votes, we'd win. Can't we just count, like, 3/5 of them?"

Posted by Jen | February 5, 2008 4:53 PM

Shorter artappraiser:

1960s retro = baaaaaad
1990s retro = good!

Posted by Tractarian | February 5, 2008 4:54 PM

"His generational appeal obscures the fact that Obama is the choice of the better off segment of Democratic voters. Take away his enormous support among African-Americans and Obama is Howard Dean/Bill Bradley/Paul Tsongas."

Oh you mean his enormous black support in Iowa? Did Howard Dean or Bill Bradley or Paul Tsongas ever increase turnout? This analogy is so bad it makes me want to unload fusillades of sarcasm on it.

Yeah he has had the better-off (i.e. less racist, let's face it) segments of Democratic voters, but ... He won Iowa, practically tied in New Hampshire and Nevada, won South Carolina HUGE. It wasn't all he had, unlike Dean/Bradley/Tsongas. The Clintons' in their desperation have repeatedly played the race card amongst the "Reagan Democrats" to their and their supporters utter and never-to-be-forgotten shame. From Republicans, especially the better off Republicans, you'd expect it, but from Democrats it's unforgivable.

Posted by Peter K. | February 5, 2008 5:14 PM

They had terrible early boomer taste: Elvis

Listen to The Sun Sessions and From Elvis In Memphis and then let's see you try to lecture us on how liking Elvis is indicative of bad taste.

Posted by Jarvis | February 5, 2008 5:20 PM

Peter K.:

It isn't the Republicans who have a former Kleagle in the Senate.

Posted by Ralph Phelan | February 5, 2008 5:24 PM

Ugly Betty is at least a little hip ... Clinton likes Gray's Anatomy which is totally unforgivable.

Posted by Nicholas Beaudrot | February 5, 2008 5:32 PM

The Clintons are Fleetwood Mac and Obama is Kanye West!!!

Posted by Peter K. | February 5, 2008 5:43 PM

Hillary is Herb Alpert and Obama is Miles Davis!

Posted by calling all toasters | February 5, 2008 5:54 PM

I'm reminded of the scene in Six Feet Under--which is probably scarily uncool by now--where Claire laughs at her boyfriend Ted's decidedly unhip taste in music (he likes Christian rock). Ted responds that since being hip is primarily a concern of adolescents, he'll take that as a compliment, and continue listening to whatever music makes him happy.

Posted by Mixner | February 5, 2008 6:23 PM

" won South Carolina HUGE"

Peter K, that line is a colossally stupid one that totally undermines your own argument. All you have demonstrated is that you have next to no knowledge about South Carolina's demographics.

If Obama won in a general election, in a Deep South state, that would be something.

But he didn't. He won a *primary* in a state that is ~30% Black. Let me be even more frank: he won a primary where ~55% of those Democrats voting were Black.

*This* is the demographic that Tsongas and Bradley and Dean could never win over.

Bringing up Iowa's a really idiotic move too, since Tsongas, Clinton and the rest conceded the state to native son Harkin. Meanwhile, Tsongas scored a big win in NH that was defused, not by facts, but by Clinton spinning himself as the Comeback Kid. If Harkin had not been in the race, Tsongas would probably have won Iowa too.

Moveover, NH's also a state that seems to go for the Democratic intellectuals. Hence their support for Hart in '84, too.

Even Kerry's 2004 win really represented one boring intellectual triumphing over (at least in the media) a crazed intellectual.

Posted by Greg | February 5, 2008 7:09 PM

"Pandering to a woman's political beliefs just to get laid?"

One of my rules is never get involved with women in five categories:

1) Religious fundamentalists.
2) Man-hating feminist Nazis (not likely anyway).
3) Political Nazis (a la Ann Coulter - and including Hillary Clinton).
4) Air-heads.
5) Neurotic/psychotic crazy bitches.

That said, I'd screw Hillary - simply because it would be fun to be the guy who Hillary uses to pay Bill back.

Nonetheless, as a Transhumanist, if I didn't cut human females some slack in their belief systems, I'd never get laid.

Oh, wait...

As for which music group the candidates represent, revealing that merely reveals one's own lameness - so I will avoid mentioning the Corrs here.

Oh, wait...

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | February 5, 2008 7:47 PM

Peter K. - I invite you to flay me with your sarcastic wit. Maybe once you are done slandering most of the Democratic party as racists and congratulating yourself for not being one of them you could take a shot.

Explain to me how up until today, Obama's voting coalition is different than the "wine track" candidatcies of Dean/Bradley/Tsongas. I will help you out. He has much greater support among African Americans.

Tyro - ouch
I was trying to make a quick point on voting coalitions and reactions to them. I should have said that "Obama's generational appeal and support in the African American community have insulated him from much of the criticism other wine track candidates have faced in the past.

Posted by blur | February 5, 2008 7:59 PM

"The Clintons are Fleetwood Mac and Obama is Kanye West!!!"

Compared to Obama, Kanye West almost seems authentic.

Posted by Fred | February 5, 2008 8:00 PM

I should have said that "Obama's generational appeal and support in the African American community have insulated him from much of the criticism other wine track candidates have faced in the past.

That's true, but I think it's a source of strength for Obama, rather than a sign of underlying weakness. We haven't had a beer track candidate who's gotten nominated without the support of the African American community, because the beer track candidate always traditionally gets the African American vote on his side.

Posted by Tyro | February 5, 2008 10:38 PM

Jarvis:

yes, I know, I have some of that Elvis on actual record albums (rolling eyes.) To boomers from my era, early Elvis is a totally different person from Hollywood movie Elvis, the Nixon adoring Elvis, the parodied Elvis. The early Elvis is a founder of rock n' roll.

Bill Clinton, however, loved the whole Elvis, that's forgivable but indicative of bubba country/western taste.

Wasn't lecturing anyone, by the way. Was giving my opinion that Bill Clinton had pretty tacky taste in music and a lot of other things.

Tractarian:

Your summary of my comments here ignores that I started out saying that the Clintons were never cool, ergo, retro 1990's is not cooler than retro 1960's. But I must admit it would be a little fresher, since I've seen retro 1960's cycle through quite a few times now, when will they tire of doing it?

Posted by artappraiser | February 5, 2008 10:58 PM

Richard Steven Hack:
if I didn't cut human females some slack in their belief systems, I'd never get laid.

Well yeah, seeing as how your list of 1-5 is pretty close to exhaustive, and all the rest are already married (though I notice that isn't on your list of negatives....;-)

Posted by Ralph Phelan | February 6, 2008 8:05 AM