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Clinton A Wee Bit Silly

07 Mar 2008 07:31 pm

One of the strangest elements of this campaign has been that Hillary Clinton has put special emphasis on the idea that she's the candidate of experience with regard to foreign policy matters, even though most accounts of the Clinton administration seem to indicate that this was the part of her husband's administration she was least involved with. The one concrete example of involvement in foreign policymaking she's really given relates to the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland, but she seems to be lying about this:

Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province.

George Mitchell, too, has tended to contradict Clinton's claims on this score.

UPDATE: Chicago Tribune takes a broader look at Clinton's claims of foreign policy experience and finds it to be mostly flim-flam. It's not just that it's false, in general, that she has a lot of experience in this field, but her campaign actually puts out specific examples of things she did while First Lady that, upon examination, turn out not to hold up.

Josh Marshall says "she doesn't need to be a seasoned foreign policy hand. But she's setting herself up for a fall when she claims to be." Right. Clinton would, like Barack Obama, and most modern presidents (Ike, Nixon, and GHWB being the big counterexamples) have little experience with running foreign policy. But she feels compelled to lie about it.

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Comments (102)

Matt, take a deep breath. Clinton and Obama are really not that far apart on most policy issues.

I'm an Obama supporter too, and I am irritated enough with Hillary to agree with a lot of what Jon Chait wrote today. But let's be serious, here.

We need to come to terms with the fact that Hilary probably did have Security Clearance in the White House, at least de facto, when Bill shared important documents with her in the bedroom, or their split bedrooms, however they do it.

Which beggars the question: who else was given Security Clearance that was not supposed to have it?

Setting John Hume and David Trimble against one another? Nice work, yer woman.

Memo to Obama: This is a pretty clear case of Hillary running on Bill's record. Yuck.

"she seems to be lying about this"

Are you saying that she's a monster, Matthew?

-----

The immolation of the Obama campaign is proceeding with a speed I didn't anticipate.

Petey, I hope your placing big bets on Intrade. You're going to score big, smart guy!

Drop out, Petey. You're hurting the blog.

The obamakinders are falling apart.

MathewY, Kos, and the rest of the rabble are showing they are immature and, like Obama, not ready for the big time.

From what I remember of the Clinton administration, Bill wasn't all that involved in foreign policy either. (DADT doesn't count)

Petey -- thank you for totally embracing Clinton. Matt's predictions of victory can cast a pall, but your full throated embrace really will kill any candidacy. Just, when Obama wins the nomination, could you embrace McCain?

Oh, and Clinton and Obama are different on foreign policy. Her entire "experience" and "Commander-in-Chief" stuff is really a way of saying she's "tough." When attacked from the right, she'll fold on every foreign policy issue and become a "hawk" to try to get foreign policy off the table. Same with criminal law for that matter.

So, she and Obama differ on foreign policy, and she's running on that difference. When it's a debate or policy discussion, she'll wonk enough to trick the political nerds on the left, but when it's a vote or a 30 second spot for the general public, she'll move to the right and be "tough."

We've reached the 72 hour point, since Hillary won a headline this last Tuesday. Of course, she made no real advance toward the Nomination. But for 72 hours, she successfully has spun the idea. The headline is now wearing off, and the relentless math is now reasserting itself.

So what happened, exactly, this week?

Obama further locked down the Nomination on Crucial Tuesday (04 March 2008) when...

...He held her to a net +4 delegate advance, after totalling all four states. Hillary won the headline. But headlines (like "winning" New Hampshire) don't mean much. In NH Obama and Hillary took the same number of pledged delegates from the race. So too with NV.

In fact, until Tuesday, Hillary had not won a single Primary/Caucus day in pledged delegates. Let me repeat that--whether it was Saturday elections, or Tuesday elections--Hillary has not won a single day in pledged delegates. She even lost Super Tuesday, in pledged delegates.

But it gets worse, this week, for Hillary.

Because it's just been announced that Obama has just benefited from a corrected shift of pledged delegates as CA certified the final vote. Obama has just enjoyed a +8 delegate swing.

I know that this is really difficult for those who don't support Obama. You thought that Hillary probably had a wonderful victory on Tuesday. Let me explain to you what happened, however.

Obama came into this week with a lead of 160 PDs (pledged delegates). Hillary took 3 PDs from RI. Obama took 3 PDs from RI. So that's a wash. Hillary then took 9 PDs from OH. Well done. There is no question that Hillary resoundingly won OH. But, she and Obama very nearly tied TX in PDs. And then, Obama trounced her in the Caucuses. The result is that Obama has won the race for PDs in TX. He will gain a net +5 PDs from TX. So at the end of Crucial Tuesday, Hillary gained +4 PDS.

Hillary finally won an election day, in PDs! Her first of the race! Wow! Well done Senator Clinton. You knocked Obama's PD lead from 160 to....

156.

Ouch.

Now let's add in California, shall we? The corrected shift gives Obama +8 PDs.

So Obama's lead over Hillary is now 164.

Oh my. Obama gained more PDs from a corrected result in California this week, then Hilary gained from 4 states on Tuesday.

Tell me again why Hillary should stay in the race when she CANNNOT beat Obama in PDs by the Convention?

You know who else misled about his national security credentials? GEORGE W. BUSH. And frankly, I think it's high time that we recognize that Hillary is closer to a continuation of the Bush administration than she is to Obama. I know it sounds inflammatory, but take a hard look and you'll see it's true. Her foreign policy is hardly distinguishable from Bush's (check the voting record), she's deeply beholden to lobbyists, she's a committed and unashamed nepotist (funny how this bothered democrats with Bush but not with her), and most of the horrible inequalities in wealth that ravage this country actually worsened under her husband's administration. If I weren't so staunchly pro-choice, I would absolutely consider voting McCain in the general election if she's the nominee. I think it's imperative that we break the Bush-Clinton duopoly on our government.


I think it's imperative that we break the Bush-Clinton duopoly on our government.

You're never going to get Clinton supporters to even acknowledge the existence of this as a valid concern, nor to address the fact that the Republicans would clearly rather run against Clinton than against Obama.

As an Obama supporter, I really don't get this militant and defiant attitude from people like Petey. Seriously. When Hill was the presumptive nominee, Obama folks weren't venal and negative about Hill. Instead, the message was just more positive, more hopeful, more passionate. Hope is what Bill ran on after all.

Now that Obama is moving steadily toward the nomination, all we get from the Hill camp is this in-fighting. It really does turn the stomach.

As someone who has watched Petey's positions evolve over a long time he isn't a Hillary supporter. He's a barroom smartass who thinks he's a political consultant and his pride has been wounded because his predictions and such turned out like most people's (worthless) and is lashing out at Obama for fucking up his show.

The immolation of the Obama campaign is proceeding with a speed I didn't anticipate.

Seems like there's a lot you didn't anticipate about the Democratic Primaries.

I trusted you, you son of a bitch! You said I'd be president! You said I'd unite America! And now look at me! LOOK AT ME!

...Sob...

I'm sorry, I'm sorry... Don't worry about me... the moldering corpse of this son of a mill worker will be just fine. It's Petey I'm worried about... I'm not sure how many more disappointments the poor guy can take.

Oh, for the love of--gotta check out now, guys, there's a stray dog trying to make off with my tibia.

Adieu, adieu, remember me...

The Obamaniacs have totally lost it. You'd think they have completely LOST IT. I'm not sure how much more I can take without blowing a gasket. My doctor said my blood pressure is through the roof, but the crazed Obamainians empty rhetoric will not stand! I will do everything within my considerable power to bring these harbingers of doom to their knees before me and I will indeed tell them how I enjoy it!

The Macedonian story gets better and better. She was there for a single day. With Sheryl Crow. And Sinbad.

z_adura,

You're 100 percent correct.

I don't know about petey, because he seems completely insane, but the hardcore HRC supporters I know have felt that her rise to the White House was a done-deal formality for about 18 months now. Once it started slipping away, these people I know - and the HRC fans on the Internet, and the HRC supporters who attended my caucus here in Seattle - got indignant and desperate. The sense of entitlement is mind-boggling.

Ken - every single comment you make on this blog is how the Obama cultists have lost it and you can't take it any more.

Apparently, you can take it just fine since you keep coming back.

What happened to Matt's comments?!

BTW, Hillary Clinton invented the internet. She's that experienced!

If she convinced Bill Clinton to allow Gerry Adams to come to the US in 1995,or her husband to visit Northern Ireland later that year, or for Bill to appoint a special envoy, then she "helped" with the peace process. The article says she had "no direct role" in negotiations leading up to the Good Friday agreements. This almost certainly true but she never claimed she did. Also, the Good Friday agreement formalized the peace process but is was neither the beginning nor the end.

How seriously is one going to take David Trimble when also says this in the same story, "The Women’s Coalition will think they were important. Other people beg to differ." Trimble deserves immense credit for getting the UUP to accept the GFA but it ended up costing him his seat and reduced the UUP to a second tier party in Northern Ireland politics. I think he might be a bit bitter.

Petey seems to be on the longest, saddest, most petulant exhibition of foot-stomping, tear-snivelling temper tantrum that I have ever seen. Yes, John Edwards quit. Yes, he lost to Obama. Yes, Petey, the hero is dead. Now, take a deep breath, behave like an adult, and quit these inglorious little whines against Obama. You embarrass yourself, you waste space on the thread, and you convince nobody. Hell, even your dog is probably sick of it! You used to make a reasoned case for Edwards - now you sound like some pathetic Republican troll, haunting a Democratic board. It's sad, vulgar and totally unconvincing.

From veiled inferences at Obama's ethnicity, to directly praising Con Mclame seriously HRC supporters this is the person you want as are nominee? What happened to the magnaminous voice we heard at the end of Texas debate? In one moment she openly invites an Obama ticket in the next she rails on him for lack of experience and Ken Starr tactics...In one moment she brings up Rezko "what does he have to hide?" and in the next moment scoffs at not revealing her taxes "so what does she have to hide?" In one moment she decries the import of those of us dems not in blue states than courts our votes "when it counts".

I am the first to admit Obama has flaws, but he did not go negative, dirty and lie to reveal HRC's flaws she revealed those all by her lonesome. If by some bizarre turn of events she wins the nomination then as a military man I will do everything in my power to keep her from office. Yeh make mean just a few votes or so but I'd rather a war hero with huge flaws than a candidate that cares about one thing and one thing only: herself. O and if you think mine is minority opinion yer in for a nasty shock.

Wow, ken, you're really some kind of nutjob ain't ya?

Ken, you snivelling excrescence of doomed mortality, how dare you speak of your "considerable power" in my presence! Even now, the dread presence faintly limned in the Pnakotic Scrolls moves upon thy tremulous heart. Abandon posturing pride, little mortal, and know that thou art mine! Anyway, I am in the mood for take-out, and a yellow-bellied sapsucker like you will just about fit the ticket. I am having Taylor Marsh for dinner, so you are simply the appetizer.

I've said it before: please don't feed the Petey.

If you give it people food it will expect it all the time.

As everyone knows, the use of the word (or variant) "lie" is not entered into lightly by most commentators.

I would argue that should especially be the case when discussing claims that are general in nature (i.e., "experience", not the Northern Ireland issue in particular.) Being in the Senate 4 more years than Obama can, in a literal sense, be the basis to claim she is more experienced with foreign affairs.

Matt's use of the word "lie" twice in a post, along with other recent posts, indicates to me he is really going off the rails here.

Calm down dude, your man is still probably going to win. I didn't like the CIC comment she made either, but the idea she is running some sort of incredibly dishonest, scorched earth campaign here is absurd.

Josh, I just poked some nuts through the bars to keep the creature happy.... Are you saying the Petey might get delusions of grandeur again?

Petey is a loyal Democrat. He is prepared to vote Nader in November to give the presidency to the Republican rather than the current Democratic front runner. But Petey is a loyal Democrat. He supports the candidate who endorsed the Republican nominee as more fit to be Commander in Chief than her Democratic rival. But Petey is a loyal Democrat. He prefers the candidate who is actively undermining the authority of the Democratic National Committee by pushing to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates. But Petey is a loyal Democrat. He wants to nominate the candidate who for reasons than can only be construed as suspicious won't release her tax records until the general election, when it's too late for Democrats to change horses. But Petey is a loyal Democrat. He
Petey is angry that Obama won't adopt mandates. To Petey that's a grievous fault. And grievous must Obama answer for it.
For Petey is a loyal Democrat. For so are all the Clinton supporters, all loyal Democrats.

But she feels compelled to lie about it.

The Clintons both seem to thrive on controversy. Think about their entire tenure in public life...they have ALWAYS been embroiled in one controversy or another. We all know people like that in real life that simply can't stand ordinary life...they manufacture problems if there aren't any happening to them.

It's really sad. It also cements that there are far better choices to run my country than them again.

Oh forgot....Couldn't the Clintons dispel all this foreign affairs/security kerfuffle by simply releasing all those papers from the WH?

Wonder why they don't want to do that?

Steven King, a negotiator with Lord Trimble’s Ulster Unionist Party, argued that Mrs Clinton might even have helped delay the chances of peace. "She was invited along to some pre-arranged meetings but I don’t think she exactly brought anybody together that hadn’t been brought together already," he said. Mrs Clinton was "a cheerleader for the Irish republican side of the argument", he added.

"She really lost all credibility when on Bill Clinton’s last visit to Northern Ireland [in December 2000] when she hugged and kissed [Sinn Fein leaders] Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness."

Hillary's foreign policy experience involves kissing IRA leaders as well as Yasar Arafat's wife.

HRC: Ready to kiss terrorists on day one!

One word that will turn Clinton into a laughinstock from here until perdition:

Sinbad.

Clinton went to Macedonia with SINBAD.

Please, Stewart, Colbert, Letterman, Leno, Olbermann - dig up the Sinbad footage.

Although Sinbad did protect the president's son. In the film First Kid.

Wonder why they don't want to do that?

Because they don't want to give anybody direct proof that they were selling pardons in the final days of Bill's presidency. Probably lots of other damaging stuff as well.

...To Petey that's a grievous fault. And grievous must Obama answer for it...

A+ on the Shakespearean concept of that comment, Led, but a C on the execution. Don't disappoint us next time.

blah - You know fuck about Northern Ireland so I would suggest you refrain from posting comments on the subject. Unless of course your desire is to come across as a sophomoric douche who knows nothing about Northern Ireland.

Go play some Xbox.

I love how Clinton supporters accuse Obama supporters of being childish. Your candidate throws a juice box and accuses Obama of having cooties. Obama sits quietly doing his arithmetic assignment where he adds delegate after delegate. Next, Clinton shoots a spitball at Obama, trying to rub the boogers from her own runny nose on Obama, and tries to pin a 'I heart Allah' sign on his back. Obama tries to ignore her but his friends get upset. Outraged that Obama has supporters who stick up for him, Clinton's friends say 'Grow up Obamatons!'. And then they return to the shooting spitballs at Obama.

I've got news for Clinton & friends. You're not going to get a passing grade in math unless you cheat and if you cheat you're not going to win in November. But whatever, you've passed the threshold on being Commander-in-Annoying or something.

I know that people who blow up civilians are terrorists. Go fuck yourself asshole.

James Gary gives the unkindest cut of all. Ouch. Frankly, I would prefer if Matt would do the grading around here so I could get benefit from some of that old fashioned Harvard grade inflation. Plus Matt can't deduct points for typos.

Andruw -- ok, we're thread jumping, but . . .

Is is really a good thing that we call almost nothing "lying" when (most) politicians do it?

First, it's weird, because I constantly heard about how Gore was a "liar" and "lied" and told a "lie." It was all I ever heard. Now, it turned out all of those other people were lying, but it's clear that there is no accepted rule that political reporting does not involve allegations of lying. Or, if there is such a rule, it's used selectively. As near as I can tell, it's usually invoked so that Bush is never said to have lied, and no Republican is ever said to have lied about taxes, economics, foreign affairs, or anything important.

Second, why in the world would deception and misleading be acceptable, as long as it's technically true? We don't accept that standard in other professions. I can see why we don't use the legal system to penalize most speech, and why we're careful with words like "slander" and "libel" -- which imply that someone has committed a tort. But, I don't see why we should define "lie" so narrowly. Particularly the most pernicious definition of lie (the Russert definition) -- it's not a lie if it's completely false and it's hard to believe that the person, knowing what they know, could ever have believed it; but it is a lie if a person contradicts something they said before. Yeah, that's a great standard.

Third, by making the standard of "lie" so stringent, don't we encourage politicians to be highly deceptive, misleading, and dishonest? Aren't we saying -- go crazy, we won't call you a liar? And, aren't we then giving immense power to totally unprincipled reporters who will use the word "lie" more freely?

Finally, Matt qualified his statements above. In both cases, he said that she "seems" to be lying. He was reporting his perception that she was being dishonest, and he explained why he found her dishonest. What's so hideous about that? He communicated his thoughts on the matter and explained his reasoning. I can take it or leave it. Personally, I don't find Clinton's puffing up of her resume that disconcerting.

P.S. To Petey -- sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you. I supported Edwards too, and I definitely understand your disappointment.

MDtoMN: "Is is really a good thing that we call almost nothing "lying" when (most) politicians do it?"

No, I would love it if the MSM and bloggers called out liars on a more regular basis. The GOP would cease to exist. But only certain politicians are held to that standard. When liberal bloggers adopt the truthfulness-frameworks of MSNBC hosts, it hurts our democracy, and the Democratic Party.

"Finally, Matt qualified his statements above. In both cases, he said that she "seems" to be lying."

The use of "seems" is just about the most odious tactic in journalism. It allows you to say anything you want.

a sophomoric douche

That is a perfect description of you. Enjoy the chuckle brothers, while it lasts.

Sláinte, cocksucker.

blah - Thanks for continually proving my point.

I appreciate your suggestion but I am currently entertaining your mother and sister. I will pass along your regards to your father who is apparently videotaping the entire escapade from the closet.

Well this fucks Tim K over.

wow... got real nasty in here, quick-like, didn't it...
oy! Cali rejiggers, and Hill is -4 instead of +4... and yet all the MSM can talk about is an advisor calling Hill a "monster."
You know, the one thing about all this negative press Obama has gotten in the last 10 days or so is that either he really hasn't pushed back with much effort, or he has been ineffective in getting the media to adopt his frame. I think the "Clinton worked the refs" theory holds a lot of water in this regard. Eventually they will revert to attacking Clinton. Its not as if she isn't giving them material - focusing on foreign policy experience when one of Obama's key themes is that she was wrong on the biggest foreign policy issue to come down the pike, implying that McCain's a better candidate, and generally speaking the histrionic manner in which she and her surrogates are now conducting themselves. In boxing terms, she's throwing haymakers, and thus leaving herself wide open... and in my view, she takes it on the chin, sooner rather than later.

There's just too much out there, and the media is just too unfriendly for her, for something not to crop up which damages her.

wow... got real nasty in here, quick-like, didn't it...
oy! Cali rejiggers, and Hill is -4 instead of +4... and yet all the MSM can talk about is an advisor calling Hill a "monster."
You know, the one thing about all this negative press Obama has gotten in the last 10 days or so is that either he really hasn't pushed back with much effort, or he has been ineffective in getting the media to adopt his frame. I think the "Clinton worked the refs" theory holds a lot of water in this regard. Eventually they will revert to attacking Clinton. Its not as if she isn't giving them material - focusing on foreign policy experience when one of Obama's key themes is that she was wrong on the biggest foreign policy issue to come down the pike, implying that McCain's a better candidate, and generally speaking the histrionic manner in which she and her surrogates are now conducting themselves. In boxing terms, she's throwing haymakers, and thus leaving herself wide open... and in my view, she takes it on the chin, sooner rather than later.

There's just too much out there, and the media is just too unfriendly for her, for something not to crop up which damages her.

Oh, my god, when you guys start making ME almost look dignified by comparison, you know you are going too far.

(I did say almost.)

SINBAD!!!!

Led--don't listen to JG, your comment was awesome. See you at Philippi!

Come on, Craig... We all know that Sinbad has a certain amount of gravitas that allows for... err.. umm...

Perhaps you were correct...

SINBAD!!!

I want to see what Matt thinks of this little diddy that Americablog has up right now:

"One Clinton aide yesterday derided Mr Obama’s victories in "boutique" caucus states rather than the hardscrabble terrain of the rustbelt, saying: "Obama has won the small caucus states with the latte-sipping crowd. They don’t need a president, they need a feeling."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3507714.ece?token=null&offset=12

So now we've gone past just saying states don't count to Karl Rove-esque smearing of the people who voted for Obama in those states.

Good times.

I love how Clinton supporters accuse Obama supporters of being childish. Your candidate throws a juice box and accuses Obama of having cooties. Obama sits quietly doing his arithmetic assignment where he adds delegate after delegate. Next, Clinton shoots a spitball at Obama, trying to rub the boogers from her own runny nose on Obama, and tries to pin a 'I heart Allah' sign on his back. Obama tries to ignore her but his friends get upset. Outraged that Obama has supporters who stick up for him, Clinton's friends say 'Grow up Obamatons!'. And then they return to the shooting spitballs at Obama.

Sinbad never said anything this funny in his entire life.

Dear Mr Yglesias,

I woke to discover that I was no longer one nation. Apparently, parts of me had ceased to exist overnight, and other bits no longer counted! Seriously, what's a girl to do?

love,
America the beautiful (mostly)

As an Obama supporter, I'm just glad that my candidate has been vetted. Because with a candidate like Hillary, who knows?

Imagine if these revelations of foreign policy puffery had occurred during a general election debate in September?

How many other surprises is she hiding? Who can tell?

Do we really want to risk it?

America, please, stop using Rovian talkingpoints and smears. Everyone knows that Republicans refer to you as one nation, and that Ken Starr often used those words. Enough with the politics of personal destruction to smear Hillary Clinton! America, shame on you!

Damn those Idaho latte-sippers!


"she doesn't need to be a seasoned foreign policy hand."

Uh, I'd like to see a President who actually knows his shit. Just for a change.

As opposed to a president who bathes in it as her natural environment, I presume?

Uh, I'd like to see a President who actually knows his shit. Just for a change.

Someone like . . . SINBAD!??!

When I look back on it, Hillary has had 35 years of selling bullshit to the world, and on the basis of this experience I'd have thought she'd make a pretty good potato-grower or something similar. Why on earth does she keep trying be popular? I mean, there's a failure to use your talent, if ever I saw one. Move to Idaho, Hillary, and start over. It's the best thing for one of your experience to do!

You're never going to get Clinton supporters to even acknowledge the existence of this as a valid concern,

Heck, I'm an Obama supporter, and I don't even acknowledge the existence of that as a valid concern. Seriously, I think the complaints about the Bush and Clinton families being part of the executive branch for 30 years just isn't that big of a deal. I don't have any trouble with dynasties or "family businesses" that continue over a period of years. The only problem is the inevitable "reversion to the mean."

Petey seems to be on the longest, saddest, most petulant exhibition of foot-stomping, tear-snivelling temper tantrum that I have ever seen.

The funny thing is that this tantrum started with the rise of Howard Dean. Petey's tantrum has its direct origin in the rise of the ability of activist Dems to raise money, organize, and attract new supporters while bypassing traditional Democratic machines and interest groups. And it's pissed him off, perhaps because he envisions himself as a "friend of the working man" that he envisions the establish party machine apparatus to be a part of.

fabrications involving Sinbad and Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey are EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!

I know foreign policy. You don't get on a show with Lisa Bonet if you don't know anything about foreign policy. I also worked with Marisa Tomei. Bonet and Tomei. Sound pretty damn foreign to me.

So, as I understand it, Sinbad, you ought to be answering the phone at 3 am in the White House? I mean, you having all that experience and all...

Damn straight. Salma Hayek was on my show. I know about issues relating to Mexico like NAFTA and immigration. Also I don't drop the f bomb - family values right there.

Damn it, Sinbad, I'd have f-bombed Salma Hayek in a shot. I am not sure you're ready to be my commander in chief...

Sinbad, you were awesome in Houseguest. Funny stuff.

Smell my threshold!!!!

have two suggestion for Obama, one for him and one for his supporters, both involve humor concerning the red phone.

First if I were Obama I would say something a;long the lines that H. Clinton would need to call Bush, Cheney and McCain before she knew how to respond and I would also say that McCain's response would terrify me,

Second, if I were an Obama supporter with video talents I would produce a viral Internet video something like this:

The phone rings....
Seconds pass.......
Hillary yells "Bill" at the top of her lungs in a panicked voice...
A Secret agent dressed all in black arrives and says,
"I am sorry Madame President but Mr. Clinton is having a cigar break with an White House intern and Mark Rich"
Fade to black
Nancy Nugent

Lest anyone think I am a congenital Clinton hater, I am liberal New Yorker who has voted for Bill twice and Hillary twice but who has been disgusted by their behavior during the 2008 campaigm and is loathe to admit my Republican was right aloout about the Clintons.

Sen. Clinton will make a fine Commander-in-Chief with the most experienced* advisors.

* - I also support Sinbad for Secretary of Defense & Sheryl Crow as Secretary of State

"Which beggars the question: who else was given Security Clearance that was not supposed to have it?"

How about her personal assistant, Huma Abedin, an ARAB no less - except nobody knows for sure from which ME country!?

In other words, a Mossad "swallow" with whom Hillary is probably having a lesbian relationship. It's already being floated in various international papers.

I can't wait for the Republicans to reveal THIS one. Nor can I wait for the Clinton supporters to explain how she's been "vetted" for it!

"HRC: Ready to kiss terrorists on day one!"

Does that mean she'll kiss me? I'm desperate enough and I was a wannabe terrorist!

Wait a minute, I just said she's in a lesbian relationship with her Mossad sex agent personal assistant!

What am I thinking?

Hello fello bloggers:
I am not too confident that I am in the right place but I need to talk to someone. I am concerned - I think about all those young people who have been drawn to Obama's rallies by the thousands. They see him as someone who can give them hope. There is something missing in their lives, he makes them think beyond themselves, to strive to reach for a putpose in life, a goal.

He gives them hope. Each week we hear of an angry young person striking out and taking the lives of their fellow student. I see it as a "cry for help" and no-one is listening.

I see Obama as someone who, just by his words could create a dialog with them to help heal their troubled minds and put them on a path to hope again. Should he not be elected they would be shattered, they would feel devastated, they could strike back at the society who did not listening.

They have been moved and we must not allow them to sink back into their desperate state of mind. These young people are our very future. He must be there for them. They have finally found someone who understands, who hears their cry and who can show them how to hope again.

Whatever will happen should he not become their president???
Worried!

Wow, what the hell happened here? It is amazing that you see 70+ comments here and no real defense of the idea that Clinton is experienced on foreign policy. At this point, her mantra may as well be "I'm older than the black guy!"

Damn, I haven't thought about Sinbad in years and I liked it that way.

Actually, Hillary was doing all sorts of magical thinking behind the scenes in the White House and long-range voodoo vibes toward Wye Plantation [too bad that didn't work out.]

Her "35 Years" is a new math concept whereby she counts "public experience" any sort of work she did in public, like being in the Wal-Mart Board Meetings counts as public experience because other people were around her.

HRC also has a new grammar which counts riding on an elephant in India [I was in Delhi during her visit] counts as "foreign policy experience."

She learned much of this magical thinking from her spouse, who was an expert in parsing complex locutions like "is."

worried,

My hope is that, if he loses, he motivates them to do something to bring REAL change. Certainly at a minimum leaving the corrupt Democratic party.

I don't think he will do that, because in my cynicism I see him as part of the system, part of the problem, and only the lesser of three evils. But one can dream.

Of course most likely he will betray that hope by endorsing The Monster. But a man can dream. Obama, if he really would have the guts to be an agent for real change, has the charisma and following to pull it off. But it is becoming increasing obvious that he first needs to take a wrecking ball to the current corrupt two party system.

But part of that will be temper his message a bit - yes, people of good faith can join together to effect change - but there is real, deep, dark, satanic evil in this country, and it it represented by the current establishment, most Democratic and Republican politicians alike. Some people worry that he is too much of a demagogue; I worry that he isn't enough of one.

"HRC also has a new grammar which counts riding on an elephant in India [I was in Delhi during her visit] counts as "foreign policy experience.""

My favorite bit from one time when she and Chelsea went to India was that they were greeted with signs everywhere that said "Welcome Chelsea." There is a bit in the slap in the face in the form of omission.

Though it does amuse me to think about how the Democratic establishment will react when they wake up on the day after the general in November. They are going to be wondering what hit them, with McCain winning a 50 state landslide, with 40 million Obama supporters staying home, 5 million voting for McCain, and the Republicans winning back both the house and senate with The Monster being poison for the down ticket races.

And the beauty of it is that, after the last eight years, the Republicans are not poised to take long term advantage of it. The time will be ripe for the whole sick, corrupt structure to be brought down. So I guess in a way we do owe The Monster a vote of thanks, since, except at the margins, an Obama presidency would most likely have just meant a few beneficial changes around the margins.

Though that assumes that Clinton gets the nomination, which, even now, seems unlikely. But I'm so disgusted with the whole thing I almost wish she does to hasten the destruction of the Democratic party. Creative destruction indeed.

And by the way, just to clarify something, I wasn't one of the people who was criticizing Clinton for betraying the Democratic party. The problem with The Monster - well, one of many problems - wasn't betraying the party, but betraying what few principles she allegedly had in a blind pursuit of pure power for its own sake. Policy wise, Clinton and Obama are, what, 1% apart? But there are some real policy differences between the two of them and McCain. As corrupt as the two party system is, I'm not one of those people who say the two parties are exactly the same. But The Monster decides to torch the candidacy of the person she has the most in common with in terms of policy, praising the man with whom she differs on policy ... for what? A 1% (at best) shot at power in 2008, and a long shot chance at power in 2012?

I mean, I am cynical enough to know that such behavior is not unique, but it is still disgusting.

As someone who has watched Petey's positions evolve over a long time he isn't a Hillary supporter. He's a barroom smartass who thinks he's a political consultant and his pride has been wounded because his predictions and such turned out like most people's (worthless) and is lashing out at Obama for fucking up his show.

This is right on the money, IMO, and bears repeating. Again. And again. And again.

Simple question:

What's the difference between the Clintons and shit?

Answer: you can grow something with shit.

Just, when Obama wins the nomination, could you embrace McCain?

One suspects that, like his ad hoc idol, Petey's one step ahead of you on this one. (Hell, he's already said that he'll vote for Nader, and since McCain is closer to Clinton and Petey on foreign policy and probably closer to Petey's new BFF Mark Penn on economic policy, he might as well skip the middleman.)

Re Alex's comment "You know who else misled about his national security credentials? GEORGE W. BUSH. And frankly, I think it's high time that we recognize that Hillary is closer to a continuation of the Bush administration than she is to Obama "
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I think Alex put his finger on it. Hillary is a spoiled, incompetent brat with a sense of entitlement -- just like George W.

Neither has ever accomplished anything by their own efforts -- their life histories consist of being docile puppets for wealthy patrons who give them everything they have: power, money, even self-respect.

What's so hilarious about Hillary's 3 Am commercial -- aside from her blatant lying about experience she does not have -- is the idea that she could ever make an independent decision.

She has always been a Good Little Girl -- who will always check to see what Daddy wants because Daddy ensures that Princess gets the baubles to which she is entitled.

SINBAD!!

Matt, I just wanted to thank you for all your hard work in exposing the moral and ideological bankruptcy of Hillary Clinton. She truly is a monster and I would be scared if she were hiding under my bed. More power to Samantha Power, she only said what all of us know and think anyway, plus she is hot.

Matt, take a deep breath. Clinton and Obama are really not that far apart on most policy issues.

Yes, and they're virtually indistinguishable in terms of experience as well.

That was the point.

In the meantime, their campaigns are very different and their personnel decisions are very different. Hillary is obsolete.
.

Oh, yes, before I forget and head off to the golf course:

SINBAD!!!!

Sinbaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

I must be in the Twilight Zone. The Obama-loving press is actually examining Hillary's record instead of regurgitating "present votes" and "REZKO"??? If this is a dream, please don't wake me up.

And note to SNL, John Stewart, Colbert, Letterman, Leno, O'Brien, et al: SSSSSIIIIIIINNNNBBBBAAAAAADDDDD!!! LOL

Sinbad and Walnuts! Sinbad and Walnuts! Sinbad and Walnuts! Run with it people, come on!

The Macedonian story gets better and better. She was there for a single day. With Sheryl Crow. And Sinbad.

Obama's surrogates need to be saying the words "Sinbad" and "Sheryl Crow" repeatedly any time Hillary's claims of foreign policy experience are brought up.

Anyone know if Sheryl Crow has endorsed yet?

Oh man, could someone please take a picture of Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin at the Yalta Conference and photoshop Sinbad and Sheryl Crow in there?

Someone please make this happen!

To all those that would suggest that Obama supporters are immature, I have one thing to say...

Neener, neener, neener...

It's high time for the craven media to push back on Hillary for this "experience" crap. (not to mention, demand that she xerox her frickin' tax returns) And I agree with Bill Maher and so many others, she crossed the line one time too many when she suggested McCain would be a better pres than Obama.

P.S. Sinbad! Sinbad! Sinbad!

I was wondering about Hillary going to Bosnia with Sinbad -- but then I noticed this item from Sinbad's wiki bio:

"Sinbad served in the US Air Force as a Boom Operator aboard KC-135 Stratotankers. He was almost dismissed with a dishonorable discharge for various misbehavior including going AWOL.[5]

“ I didn't make the Air Force basketball team and went into denial. So, I kept going AWOL. My mother kept begging me to go back. I told her, 'No, I'm not going back. I'll just grow a beard. They won't recognize me. I'll just be another Black man with a beard.' I was going to Georgia Tech to learn about computers. I'd go AWOL all the time. I'd just leave. I'd come back, hoping they'd throw me out.[6] ”

After a series of incidents, he was eventually ejected "for parking my car in the wrong position."[7] "

------------------
Hey, by Clintonian standards that's a distinguished military record.

Here is a photo of Hillary, Sinbad, Chelsea, and Cheryl Crow gaining foreign policy experience in Bosnia:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/3/7/225236/4911/389#389

For those who called Mrs. Clinton a "monster." You've got it wrong. She's not a monster...she's the anti-Christ.

I think this video sums things up Sen. Clinton's experience rather nicely (and the song rocks).

Oops - here's the link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hwLaCb07lAs


Comments closed March 21, 2008.

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