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College and Inequality

04 Mar 2008 11:13 am

Folks like me have spent a good deal of energy over the past couple of years noting that a very large portion of the increase in income inequality in America can't be attributed to the rising "skill premium" for college graduates. Still, a large portion of growing inequality can be attributed to this skill premium. Why the premium should be growing is, as Brink Lindsey points out, actually something of a mystery -- growing demand for the skills of college graduates ought to lead to an increase in the proportion of people who graduate from college, but it hasn't. Lindsey rounds up the considerable evidence, meanwhile, that the price of college admission isn't really the crux of the problem; paying for college is a large burden on many families, but those with the ability to do college level work generally manage to shoulder the burden and it pays off in the long run. The problem is that a huge proportion of low-income young people are inadequately prepared.

Thus far, I'm all in agreement. Lindsey then attributes this gap mainly to differences in "parental culture." I think that's probably true, but on another level it's an odd thing to focus on since we really have very few policy levers on that front. That might mean that we just don't have any policy levers at all, but in the real world (as Lindsey acknowledges) we actually do have a variety of available options regarding early childhood education, better practices in our primary and secondary schooling, etc. I would add to this the simple thing of better information since I'd venture that relatively few working class families are at all aware that the skill premium has been growing so rapidly. Lindsey's final point is an interesting one:

Furthermore, progressives need to understand that the rise in skill-based inequality is not some populist morality play of capitalism run amok. On the contrary, in many ways it can be seen as a capitalist success story. For a generation now, our economy has been creating more opportunities for the productive use of highly developed cognitive skills than there are people able to take advantage of them. That is what the run-up in the college wage premium is telling us. Economic development has raced ahead of cultural development; as a result, culture is now acting as a brake on upward mobility. So, instead of railing against the economic system, we need to do a better job of helping people to adapt to it and rise to its challenges. The rules of the game aren't the problem--we just need more skillful players.

I think there's something to that, but the point of the morality play is that nothing is going to change policywise unless people think that reconciling ourselves to ever-growing inequality is wrong and, therefore, we ought to be interested in ways to reverse the trend. Meanwhile, I think it's not wrong to think of some of the aspects of our school system's poor treatment of low-income kids as precisely representing affluent people gaming the system (by, among other things, withdrawing across jurisdictional boundaries which they then zone with large lot requirements and "overcrowding" rules so as to prevent poor people from moving there) to preserve positions of privilege for their children.

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Comments (52)

College doesn't teach you all that many skills. Plumbers and highly skilled technical workers make as much, if not more, than a lot of people who get college degrees and then take office jobs. Given the price of a college education versus technical school, you really have to wonder whether the investment is worth it for a significant portion of the work force.

"paying for college is a large burden on many families, but those with the ability to do college level work generally manage to shoulder the burden"

Matthew asserts this over and over again, but that doesn't make it true.

The studies I've seen show that students in the lowest two income quintiles with above average academic ability are significantly less likely to go to college than students from wealthier families.

I know Matthew is ardently opposed to universal programs to pay for college, but I've never quite understood why.

...with large lot requirements and "overcrowding" rules so as to prevent poor people from moving there) to preserve positions of privilege for their children.

No point in building a treehouse if you can't pull up the ladder....

I sometimes see us heading, at +$5.00/ga. for gas, towards a Latin American future, with prosperous center cities surrounded by favelas consisting of spec-built sheetrock McMansions either sold for a song, or squatted in, by the poor, kept poor by the cost of their commutes.

Whenever you have this kind of statement from a libertarian, there is always the inevitable "yes, but" question. And the "yes, but" here is "what about the people who can't or don't become high-cognitively skilled"? When it become the conventional wisdom that every American must dutifully go to college and become a member of the "information-based economy", or even that every person is capable to do so? And what if there simply aren't exactly as many of these college-dependent jobs as people applying for them?

There has to be non-college (or high-cognitively skilled or whatever) industries in this country that pay a wage capable of raising a family. Not everyone is meant to go to college, not everyone wants to go to college. If you really want to start to address many of the social ills of this country, addressing the death of the livable wage for unskilled or undereducated worker is a good place to start.

Oh, and by the way, Yglesias, your alma mater? 40% of the undergrads are in the top quartile of American families in terms of income. You know how many come from the bottom half? Nine percent. Nine!

One of the big problems is obviously the gigantic cost of a college education these days, which has risen far more rapidly than inflation for several decades. This leads to lots of students being either priced out of the market or having to assume horribly burdensome loans.

Why have college costs risen so rapidly, especially since the (compensating) college endowments have *also* risen so rapidly?

There's really no good reason for this. It's basically that colleges now waste more and more of their money on lavishly paid administrators or "celebrity professors" who don't really add that much to the educational process. There's simply no upper bound to a university's possible administrative/bureaucratic expenses.

Hopefully, competitive technologies may soon start to put a stop to this nonsense.

"There has to be non-college (or high-cognitively skilled or whatever) industries in this country that pay a wage capable of raising a family. Not everyone is meant to go to college, not everyone wants to go to college. If you really want to start to address many of the social ills of this country, addressing the death of the livable wage for unskilled or undereducated worker is a good place to start."

No reason for there not to be a two-track solution.

Having a better standard of living for unskilled workers is one track.

But making college more accessible for children born into lower income families is just as important a track. Matthew's notion that a substantial percentage of academically capable kids from lower income families manage to get through college is a fucking fantasy.

This is a good post from MY. I learned something about the causes of growing inequality, and what to do about them.

I also agree (with Freddie) that we need to sustain a living wage for relatively unskilled workers. Enforcing our existing immigration laws might be one place to start.

"Oh, and by the way, Yglesias, your alma mater? 40% of the undergrads are in the top quartile of American families in terms of income. You know how many come from the bottom half? Nine percent. Nine!"

When I'm thinking poorly of Matthew, I think that's why he's opposed to universal programs to pay for college.

He knows that his family background made it easier for him to advance, and he likes it that way.

When I'm not thinking poorly of Matthew, I think he's just ignorant on the topic.

Education just doesn't do much on a macro basis to improve the wage base. On an micro base, for individual situations and class mobility, it's a good thing, of course, to have available to everybody, but in the big picture I'm not sure how productive it is...or if it's actually counter-productive.

Right now the problem is the lack of a market for labor. There's a glut of high school educated/some college/technical school workers, and because of the glut overall, wages tend to drop. Employers are changing the nature of quite a few of their jobs so what used to be highly educated specialization can now be done by a bit of training by labor that's in that glut. It's scarcity that makes prices and value rise, and there's no scarcity of labor.

What education would do en masse, is that it would take that glut and apply it to different fields. While their wages would go up, the wages of those already in the field would tend to go down. I'm of two minds about this..I think workers should be paid good money but at the same time, workers down the line are affected by this too..why should college educated workers be any different?

The good news is that we probably have to hold out until the retirement of the boomers, which will collapse the glut of labor more or less (at least it should)...as long as central planning interests (see: Federal Reserve) don't take steps to shrink down the economy in order to maintain the glut, in fear of massive inflation.

However, common sense says that prices above a certain floor are not determined by costs but by perceived value..how much the public is willing to pay..thusly, as long as the public doesn't go crazy, inflation should be kept under control.

"That is what the run-up in the college wage premium is telling us."

There has been no run-up in college wage premium. Income for persons with bachelors degrees only has been stagnant for years. How many fallacies can this guy fir into one short piece?

. It's basically that colleges now waste more and more of their money on lavishly paid administrators or "celebrity professors".

Uhn-uh. If anything, the traditional faculties are being farmed out to adjuncts.

It's physical plant. To attract the students, you have to offer a Club-Med-with-courses, which you pay for by higher tuition and fees. Classic vicious circle.

Take the Marino Center at Northeastern for an example.

You can't stack students like cordwood in Quonset huts, GI-Bill style, or they'll vote with their feet.


No reason for there not to be a two-track solution.

Having a better standard of living for unskilled workers is one track.

But making college more accessible for children born into lower income families is just as important a track. Matthew's notion that a substantial percentage of academically capable kids from lower income families manage to get through college is a fucking fantasy.

I think one of the important things to note about these tracks is that implementing the first track may help facilitate the second track. It's just more difficult for children of poor parents to perform well academically regardless of whether you pay their college tuition or not. If you want to level that paying field, less economic inequality may be the best way to go.

At the same time, the growing skill premium is a kind of market signalling: get some skills! But this is about more than just populism versus capitalism. If we want our economy to continue to grow we need more than just smarter elites. We need everyone to acquire more and better skills so they can be more productive. It makes our economy stronger in both an absolute and relative sense.

. It's basically that colleges now waste more and more of their money on lavishly paid administrators or "celebrity professors".

Uhn-uh. If anything, the traditional faculties are being farmed out to adjuncts.

It's physical plant. To attract the students, you have to offer a Club-Med-with-courses, which you pay for by higher tuition and fees. Classic vicious circle.

Take the Marino Center at Northeastern for an example.

You can't stack students like cordwood in Quonset huts, GI-Bill style, or they'll vote with their feet.

Yeah, Freddie, but everyone knows that Harvard is entirely merit based. Only the smartest and most qualified students attend Harvard. If more rich kids go to Harvard that only means rich kids are smarter and more qualified, right?

I actually agree that college is largely overrated. However, it's become something of a rite of passage for middle class Americans. There are still some great jobs out there that require "only" a vocational education (and I put only in quotes because many of these vocational programs are rigorous and very difficult). Outside of professors, doctors, lawyers, and professional game show contestants, it's pretty rare that anyone needs to call upon any skills learned in college--not true of vocational programs.

For what it's worth, I made it through college in the 80s on grants, loans, and student work. Parental contribution was tiny. The loan burden is a drag, but but it can be done, and lots of people do it.

I've also taught at several different kinds of institutions, large and small, private and public, and I'm afraid Matt is right. I'm not saying there *aren't* financial barriers. There are. But in my experience, student preparation (and motivation) are the more serious obstacles. Matt's point is that we needn't regard these obstacles as permanent or insuperable.

"But this is about more than just populism versus capitalism. If we want our economy to continue to grow we need more than just smarter elites. We need everyone to acquire more and better skills so they can be more productive. It makes our economy stronger in both an absolute and relative sense."

Yup.

Ted said: But in my experience, student preparation (and motivation) are the more serious obstacles. [emphasis mine]

Anymore, this is indisputably true. The research in the area of the interaction of various forms of financial aid and student high school achievement reinforces this over, and over again. Financial aid does not substitute for academic readiness. Students with strong financial aid packages and poor high school prep (combination of SAT/ACT/HS GPA/Class Rank) correlates poorly with graduation from college. Financial aid may make the opportunity accessible, but doesn't appear to contribute to a student's ability to graduate - even when controlling for various types of financial aid.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, once again. Students who do well in high school, tend to do graduate with a degree, again controlling for all types of financial aid.

Blaming "culture" is just more of the same. Arguing for better unskilled wages is important but not relevant to whether lower-income people can get a college education. If we want to improve the college outcome of lower-income students, we must make the effort to address the fact that they're unprepared for college directly, rather than blaming them for being unprepared by making the mistake of being born into the wrong household or "culture." There are programs in schools that address exactly this problem, and some are quite successful, but we have to be willing to spend money and effort. See for example AVID.

"For what it's worth, I made it through college in the 80s on grants, loans, and student work. Parental contribution was tiny. The loan burden is a drag, but but it can be done, and lots of people do it."

Anecdotes are wonderful, Ted, but the data shows that college graduation rates for academically capable children from families in the lower two income quintiles is a small fraction of the overall total.

I'm glad the current system worked for you, but it doesn't work for most lower income kids.

The fact (and my experience leads me to believe it's a fact) that a big chunk of lower income kids are not prepared to get much out of college, makes the price of college moot. THe university was originally designed only for gentlemen. And there was nothing vocational about it at all. It would be interesting to see what thepercentage of people graduating from college thought the industrial age is. Ther 2000 census said that %15 of US citizens had a bachlor degree. That's not that much. How does that fit in witth the skills premium? What would happen to the skills premium if the percentage of citizens with degrees went up to %50?

I don't know much about this issue, but I'm curious: is it possible that the college wage premium is the result of a decrease in the quality of the average high school education?

Petey writes: Anecdotes are wonderful, Ted, but the data shows that college graduation rates for academically capable children from families in the lower two income quintiles is a small fraction of the overall total.

I agree that data are better than anecdotes. So I'll discuss this with you, Petey, if you clarify your data in two ways:

First, define "capable." A relevant definition of capability needs to include a lot more than SAT scores. I'm saying that the barriers are "preparation" and "motivation." If you've got a definition of "capable" that includes those things, I'll discuss it.

Second, explain what "overall total" you're using as a benchmark here. As phrased, it's ambiguous.

Petey said: college graduation rates for academically capable children from families in the lower two income quintiles is a small fraction of the overall total.

How are you counting, Petey? Academically capable children from families in the lower quintiles also tend to be a smaller fraction of the matriculated student body overall. If they were under represented in the population as a whole, they would be under represented in terms of graduation, as well. Unless you're stratifying the sample and comparing the graduation rates of subgroups to each other?

"Unless you're stratifying the sample and comparing the graduation rates of subgroups to each other?"

The data I've seen does indeed stratify in that manner.

Some other dancing monkey will have to go googling for the appropriate data, however. I'm a bit focused on the primary race today.

Tom, I would argue the holder of a college degree gleans a wage premium on two levels. The first is skill acquisition (yes, for example, I believe the disciplines of engineering and education are 'vocational' in nature). The second is signaling. Employers assign a value to what it is assumed the person has as innate skills for merely completing a degree program.

Petey, my apologies; didn't mean to suggest you were a dancing monkey. Just needed clarity of how the numbers were being generated. Thanks for the clarification.

There was a study a few years ago incdicating that attending an Ivy League university did not improve your earning potential. Rather getting in to an Ivy was a good marker of future success. In other words, elite colleges are very good at recognizing successful people, but didn't do all that much to create successful people.

I worry that the "college premium" is similarly illusary. That college education is a marker of success, not a contributor to success. That trying to make the US more successful by sending more children to college is like trying to make us all taller by giving high-schoolers stilts.

It is precisely because it is difficult and expensive that going to college at 20 is a good predictor of being wealthy at 50. If we make it easier to go to college, we will send more 20-year-olds to college. It's not all that clear that we will make those future fifty-year-olds any better off.

There most certainly are "policy levers" available with respect to "parental culture". Thinking otherwise seems to buy into the notion that some parents don't care about their kids or that some sub-cultures in America are somehow inferior.

More likely is the fact that some parents don't have the support they need to parent. Parenting takes time and takes money and if you have to, say, work 2 jobs to make ends meet, then you don't have much time to help with homework. Similarly, violin lessons, computer camp and many of the other things that can inspire and give a child a leg up cost a lot of money.

The "cultural" imperative to go to college is most definite more of a result of the built in structural inequalities in the US than anything else and that is precisely what Progressive "policy levers" are supposed to address.

why is this thread equating all college degrees? how about within a college, aren't different degrees important? An engineering degree generally has a higher first job value than say, a degree in Russian Literature. After the first job, do technical skillsets outperform less-technical skillsets? In general, I THINK the answer is yes as I have nothing more than anecdote to cite..

Higher Ed. inflation has occurred mainly due to the increases in federal funding and subsidies for higher ed. The list price is paid by the more academically mediocre, higher income kid, everyone else gets a discount via loans, scholarships, work study etc. I can't find the reference immediately but there was a recent paper about the gap between average tuition and list-price tuition getting much wider since 1980.

coincidentally or not, there is an effort underway in Congress to help ensure that low-income people make it through college and get good jobs afterward. see these posts for more:

http://www.inclusionist.org/node/1479

http://www.inclusionist.org/node/1448

"Petey, my apologies; didn't mean to suggest you were a dancing monkey."

I'm usually happy to be a dancing and googling monkey. Just a bit too preoccupied with the elections today.

Those who dislike the use of the term "culture" can instead subsitute the term "social capital" in its palce.

You could make college free (as community colleges are) and even provide a stipend, and you would still have people choosing not to go to college or not succeedin at college either because of poor preparation or lack of support from one's family for such an endeavor.

I think the reality is that there are few policy levers available. To get better parental culture, you want more intact families, with a mother and father raising their kids.

That's not something the government has a heck of a lot of control over.

I understand that culture can be a major impediment to academic acheivement, but history suggests it can be overcome. There was a time when nobody read, then when only a very few read, and then there was the transition to universal education. All along the way, those whose parents and most of their peers could not read learned to read in ever increasing numbers. What is so special about current cultural impediments that they cannot be readily overcome? Do we want to argue that we have arrived at the educational equivalent Malthus' unproductive lands? (The answer fromsome quarters seems to be a resounding "yes".) Don't we actually know a good deal more about education than we are willing to put into practice? It seems that the tussle over institutional arrangements have taken precedence over best classroom practices.

I understand that culture can be a major impediment to academic acheivement, but history suggests it can be overcome. There was a time when nobody read, then when only a very few read, and then there was the transition to universal education. All along the way, those whose parents and most of their peers could not read learned to read in ever increasing numbers. What is so special about current cultural impediments that they cannot be readily overcome? Do we want to argue that we have arrived at the educational equivalent Malthus' unproductive lands? (The answer fromsome quarters seems to be a resounding "yes".) Don't we actually know a good deal more about education than we are willing to put into practice? It seems that the tussle over institutional arrangements have taken precedence over best classroom practices.

Yeah, people don't graduate from college because their parents suck.

Not because they didn't have enough money. Not because they couldn't get accepted, due to the low quality of their schools. It's all because their parents suck. Anything for the upper-class to escape feeling guilt for their absolute corruption.

At some point, it's pretty Clear that matt is an overwhelmingly classist human being. He thinks he got where he is entirely by luck. It had nothing to do with the advantages of his class. If people people couldn't compete with him, fuck them.

Tyro, yeah right. You say that like we can't look at half of europe and see that it's not true.

Tyro, community colleges aren't free. Where did you get the idea that they were? They provide discounts for people who live within a certain aream, but you're still likely to max out traditional student loans attending them. As of this month, most loaning institutions discontinued all lending to community college students.

In france, they do everything you just described. They do not have any of those problems. Kids take the Bacc, they get into school, the government pays, and they go. They don't simply decided to stay home because they don't want to make a lot of money. Your comment reads like an excuse not to do anything.

I really have to wonder if you actually know anything about higher education?

"In france, they do everything you just described. They do not have any of those problems. Kids take the Bacc, they get into school, the government pays, and they go."

And that's what we ought to do here.

As a prof and advisor at a school that gets a lot of lower-income smart kids I think some anecdotes are useful.

1) A lot more of the lower-income kids are working to pay for school or help out their families. Lots of them live at home and commute both to save $ and becuase they are less a part of the upper middle class cultural tradition of going away to school. Both working and commuting lessen their attachment to school and make it easier for them to drop out.

2) The big state schools these kids go to have lots of bureaucratic hoops that they aren't as good at navigating as kids with college-educated parents.

3) Most of them went to really awful high schools that taught to tests. So they are good at taking multiple-choice tests, but their actual reading and problem solving skills are bad. They appear on paper to be more capable than they are

Its usually a combination of these factors where the kids I interact with drop out. #2 is a big deal.

Just a quick note on this: you might want to check out work by Daron Acemoglu, an economist at MIT.

What he essentially argues (I think) is that the common story of skill-biased technical change--that is, that technical innovation over the past decades has led to a premium for educated workers--misses a critical part of the story.

A firm will not innovate, simply hoping that educated workers come along. Rather, a firm innovates when there are high levels of a factor available--they wait until the college educated workers are available, which then induces technical innovation.

The point of all of this is that simply increasing the number of college graduates will not necessarily decrease inequality--it may in fact increase it, putting policy in a tough position.

Mary

Daron Acemoglu. Why Do New Technologies Complement Skills? Directed Technical Change and Wage Inequality. Quarterly Journal of Economics, 113(4), 1055-1089.

Abstract: A high proportion of skilled workers in the labor force implies a large market size for skill-complementary technologies, and encourages faster upgrading of the productivity of skilled workers. As a result, an increase in the supply of skills reduces the skill premium in the short run, but then it induces skill-biased technical change and increases the skill premium, possibly even above its initial value. This theory suggests that the rapid increase in the proportion of college graduates in the United States labor force in the 1970s may have been a causal factor in both the decline in the college premium during the 1970s and the large increase in inequality during the 1980s.

soullite, you're forgetting that in Europe, the students show up better prepared for college. Not only that, access to college is harder to come by (though I can't comment on a lot of northern europe). I'm perfectly willing to accept that we should make people's home and family situation less of a factor when it comes to people's options in college. But you're STILL going to be faced with students whose families don't have room for them to live at home or expect them to make money for the family ASAP and/or aren't going to focus the family resources and time on making sure their child focuses and finished.

Also, what CalDem said.

To me, this explanation for inequality is just a cryptic roundabout way of claiming that "Black people are stupid, and we finally invented machines that are just too complicated for black people to use," or something of that sort.

When assessing why more people don't go to college, most people ignore the fact that 99% of colleges are publicly funded, and the number of available spots at publicly funded colleges is quasi-fixed...

Anecdotes are wonderful, Ted, but the data shows that college graduation rates for academically capable children from families in the lower two income quintiles is a small fraction of the overall total

Do you have any cites for any of this data you keep talking about?

Mr. Noah, a large number of people "go to college." However, a much smaller portion actually graduate.

Mr. Noah, a large number of people "go to college." However, a much smaller portion actually graduate.

So you think if we doubled the number of people going to college, the graduation rate would remain unchanged? That's a tough argument to make.

Mr. Noah, I'm just saying that the low number of college graduates isn't because the number of spots is "quasi-fixed." Colleges aren't turning people away for lack of space, outside of the maybe 100-200 selective colleges and universities in the entire country. It's that for whatever reason: financial, academic, personal, they don't finish.

When assessing why more people don't go to college, most people ignore the fact that 99% of colleges are publicly funded, and the number of available spots at publicly funded colleges is quasi-fixed...

I don't know if that figure of 99% is accurate, I can say that there is no such thing, really, as a public university anymore-- the average public U gets less than 10% of its funding from the state.

It all depends on what you mean by "college." Here in California, the community colleges cost a couple of hundred bucks a semester, and they'll waive that if you meet the low-income threshold. The state schools and the University of California are both easy to get through without paying a dime of tuition, if you're poor and you did well enough in high school or community college. You've still got rent and living expenses that might not be covered by grants, but that's what loans are for. We're not talking about $150,000 in loans to get through Harvard Law or something, we're talking about $30,000 in loans to help with your rent and beer money while you go to public school. Yeah, you go into debt, but it's not bad debt. Since going to college greatly increases your future earning potential, a low-interest loan that you pay off with those future earnings is a great investment.

The hardworking, smart, poor kid who doesn't go to college was probably failed more by his elementary school, his junior high and his high school, and maybe his family, than by anything to do with the college system.

But back to MY point...

Right now %15 of adults are college graduates. Half of these people work at Starbucks. Do we really need MORE college graduates?

Matt asserts:

"Lindsey then attributes this gap mainly to differences in "parental culture." I think that's probably true, but on another level it's an odd thing to focus on since we really have very few policy levers on that front."

We have an obvious policy lever that we know has an effect: immigration policy. We can do what the Canadians do and let in highly skilled immigrants, who will be vastly more likely to provide the right "parental culture" for their children, while keeping out unskilled immigrants, who are unlikely to provide the right parental culture. Or we can do what the top-scoring European country, Finland, does and keep out most immigrants altogether.

But, instead, our immigration policy is to let in vast number of low skilled people. That leads to situations like what we see in the Los Angeles public schools today, where the dropout rate is about 55% and only about 8% of entering high school students wind up scoring 1000 or higher on the SAT test (and that's the equivalent of an 890 on the pre-1995 SAT scoring system).

By the way, the easiest way to get into prestigious UCLA is by going to a public community college (negligible tuition in California) for two years, then applying to transfer. UCLA takes in over 3,000 transfers per year, probably most from the public junior colleges.

If you are clever, you can take the GRE when you are 16, do two years at a community college, then transfer into UCLA as a junior when you are 18, and get a shiny UCLA diploma when you are 20.


Comments closed March 18, 2008.

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