Ending the War

Chris Bowers sketches out a plausible and appealing scenario in which Barack Obama wraps up the nomination on May 6. Among other things that would be good about such a scenario, it's worth noting that at this point the main obstacle to a satisfactory resolution of the Florida/Michigan situation is that Clinton continues to be in the race. If she drops out and endorses Obama on May 7 or shortly thereafter, it'll be easy for Michigan and Florida to be "forgiven" in late May and allowed to fully participate in a rubber stamp convention in exchange for promising to never do it again.

This is what, I think, everyone believed would happen when the harsh sanctions were first announced. Only the fact that Hillary Clinton is trying to use the seating of the improperly selected delegates to actually overturn the results of the legitimate nominating process is creating a crisis situation that threatens Democratic prospects in the fall.

Comments

OT, but did you guys hear about Clinton's latest outrage?

In any sane polity, she would be torn limb from limb by an angry mob. Sine this isn't a sane polity, I hope a blood vessel in here brain explodes later today.

Posted by patriot | March 25, 2008 4:13 PM

I can't believe how much people have let her get away with this.

If she had lost those states, is there any doubt- any at all- that she wouldn't be arguing for their inclusion?

Why did she only start caring about the "voices" of those voters AFTER she had won them AND it became clear that she was going to need them?

The NPR interview should have been replayed by every station. But a tight race is better for creating the news.

Posted by Tony Hussein | March 25, 2008 4:14 PM

HRC is to Democratic presidential campaigning "war" as GWB is to War "war". And she has the same dogged need to win no matter what. IMO if she had more money she would have:

A. Said more supid shit louder and,

B. Wasted even more money.

Hillary would like it if this fucker lasted another 100 years, because at that point both her and Obama would have about .0001% favorability rating and she could then claim they were even.

Posted by So | March 25, 2008 4:19 PM

Quite possibly, she is the devil. Imagine! Standing in the path of St. Obama. How dare she! The very effrontery!

It is not St. Obama--of course not he!--who scuttled FL and MI re-votes. No-o-o-o. He's the candidate of "truth, justice, and the American way."

It must have been that devil, Hillary Clinton, who is merely posing as an advocate for Democracy in two of the most important states.

Posted by John Petty | March 25, 2008 4:23 PM

Obama and his cronies oppose any revote in MI and FL but its Hillary who is pushing for illegitimate outcomes?

Bowers views aside, its also entirely possible that Hillary goes on a winning streak, winning 8 or 9 of the last 11 contests, showing that she's got both momentum and that Obama is a combination caucus/favorite son candidate who can't put a GE coalition together.

why don't we just find out.

Posted by pj | March 25, 2008 4:25 PM

Since when did you turn into Andrew Sullivan?

Posted by Neil | March 25, 2008 4:31 PM

If it were anyone but Hillary the race would be over. People are afraid to tick off her and her supporters so keep pretending it is still a race. She is in about the same shape Huckabee was when people started treating his continued campaign as a silly novelty act.

Posted by Eric k | March 25, 2008 4:31 PM

I commend Hillary for learning Al Gore's lesson; you don't give up while there's still money on the table. I also think the analogy is completely wrong in the context of this being a primary within her own political party, but hey, would you reneg at $70+ million in the pot?

A note to my fellow Obama supporters; Democrats gain when we welcome everyone in, even if they supported another candidate in the primaries, and when Obama wins you can bet Hillary and Bill will be the first in line against John McCain and the Republicans.

Posted by Jaycal | March 25, 2008 4:36 PM

"...when Obama wins you can bet Hillary and Bill will be the first in line against John McCain and the Republicans."

I hope so, but after they brought up Wright today (after McCain and Huckabee asked to move on), I'm confident they won't exactly do everything they can.

Posted by Monster | March 25, 2008 4:43 PM

Hillary and her supporters are staying in because they don't think Obama is electable. Today's article in the Times hit the nail on the head. Nothing in his back ground would lead any rational person to believe that Obama can deliver on his rehtoric. He is a freshman senator, elected under extrodinary circumstances, who had accomplished nothing of note in the Senate, until he decided to run for President. We believe that between now and November the country is going to figure that out.

Posted by phg | March 25, 2008 4:48 PM

winning 8 or 9 of the last 11 contests
Not gonna happen.

Posted by bjd | March 25, 2008 4:48 PM

I guess I can't really see her endorsing Obama. What do others think? I mean no one would believe her. I think she'd say something more like vote democratic rather than specifically endorse him. It seems to personal now for her to actually do that. But I hope I'm wrong.

Posted by Lesley | March 25, 2008 4:53 PM

Oh Gawd, how dare Hillary bring up Jeremiah Wright. Imagine! The chutzpah! You just know the Republicans won't go there.

Obama released his tax returns today, and, actually, it does appear that his church wasn't all that important to him. He gave less than 1% to charity until two years ago. Then, he kicked it up a notch.

Posted by John Petty | March 25, 2008 4:56 PM

Look, the Wright comments were the last straw. Anyone who still supports the monster is far worse than the most extreme Bush dead ender. I have no respect at all for those fucking crackers.

But her loathsome comments do have two good aspects. They will hurt her among the supers, and probably also with the voters (because the people who respond to that kind of vile Hannity shit weren't going to vote for Obama anyway).

And it put the final nail in her general election chances if she does somehow steal the nomination. No Democrat can win with most African American voters staying home, and the rest supporting the Republican candidate. They sure aren't going to vote for that evil racist piece of shit Clinton.

Posted by LarryM | March 25, 2008 4:56 PM

It must have been that devil, Hillary Clinton, who is merely posing as an advocate for Democracy in two of the most important states.

Bullshit. She doesn't give a shit about Michiganders. If she did she wouldn't engage in anti-NAFTA pandering and just tell the people the fucking truth. Obama does the same, but don't sit there and tell me that Michigan is important to her for anything but needed delegates.

Posted by DDP | March 25, 2008 5:00 PM

Hillary doesn't have time to endorse Obama. She's far too busy dodging sniper fire, flyin' corkscrew patterns and bringing the peace to the people's!

Posted by Rihilism | March 25, 2008 5:02 PM

It is not St. Obama--of course not he!--who scuttled FL and MI re-votes. No-o-o-o. He's the candidate of "truth, justice, and the American way."

Matt,

Do you just post this stuff to see HRC supporters go bonkers?

Carry on.

Posted by Mike | March 25, 2008 5:05 PM

If a majority of Americans still choose to take Wright's-words-as-defined-to-deify him in order to hobble the ONLY candidate who is really lloking to the future of America and trying to change it for the better (which Wrights words actuall help do, IF you choose to read them ALL), If that is true, then as with the past 7 years we get the kind of "leaders" and "media/press" and national dialogue and national reputation we so RICHLY FUCKING DESERVE!!!!

DO you want a stupider America? QUIT BEING STUPID ABOUT WHAT THE MAN SAID THEN. A stupider America is not better for you. Its no longer a fucking joke.

The sorriest humans at any lynching do not have the rope around their neck. The sorriest ones realize they have to LIVE in that kind of community now. Do you really like what we've become as a country now?

Do you like what we are becoming so that HRC and JMc have a better chance at winning? How many ways can we alienate ourselves from one another and for what fucking purpose?

For the love of god, please do not bring up rev Wright unless you want to talk about what HE actually said IN full and what he MEANT because those two things are the same beleive it or fucking not.

Do'nt talk about what some other John Doe White guys gonna do when he willfully misreads or misinterprets those words. Take responsibilty for your own racism or opportunity to sound like a "race realist". Thanks.

Posted by So | March 25, 2008 5:06 PM

Mike,

Look, Matthew is bending over backwards to be fair to the Monster and her supporters. Even I am censoring my real feelings, which are FAR more extreme than what I post here.

Posted by LarryM | March 25, 2008 5:08 PM

Uh, after the Obama campaign peddled a photo of Wright at the White House and Obama himself made a sneering reference to the pastor being present during President Clinton's "personal crisis", I hardly see why Hillary is obligated to "no comment" on the guy.

And oh yeah - Matt has completely jumped the shark, and I've been reading since 2002.

Posted by Shawn | March 25, 2008 5:15 PM

there's just no measuring how ugly this will get.

Posted by southpaw | March 25, 2008 5:20 PM

Yes, in Shawn's warper world point out that your opponent is a hypocrite is the same as Hannity style racist bullshit.

But it just confirms what I wrote above. There is nothing like Monster supporters to make her (and themselves) look bad.

Posted by LarryM | March 25, 2008 5:21 PM

"the ONLY candidate who is really lloking to the future of America and trying to change it for the better"

Boy, I can't wait to live in this better world, where people routinely refer to a candidate they don't like as "the monster," and wish for a blood vessel to burst in her head. Yes, Obama really brings out the better angels in all of us.

Posted by ChrisO | March 25, 2008 5:31 PM

Iglesias is just trying [successfully] to yank our chain by publishing risible Pravda-like lies that Clinton is trying to overturn the results of the legitimate nominating process that has not yet concluded. I see some am talk radio in young Matt's future as he becomes ever more adept at spewing aburd bullshit with a straight face in order to driver traffic. Hey it works for Rush and Hannity.

Posted by Gene | March 25, 2008 5:37 PM

Lmao, hillary isn't pushing for revotes. She's pushing for revotes under entirely new rules that benefit her.

If they had just said' ALL Democrats can vote in the Michigan Primary' there would be a revote. It's only after Hillary started asking to exclude people that it become a non-starter.

Crhisto, yeah because it's really OBAMA that makes us hate Hillary Clinton. She had absolutely nothing to do with it... I guess responsibility is for little people. Not for leaders who believe they have been chosen by God, as Hillary and all Fellowship members do...

Posted by Soullite | March 25, 2008 5:38 PM

Us poor stupid stupid Florida voters. How dare we think we knew enough to cast a ballot on Jan 29th and actually think it should count.

Not that we had any choice in what date we got to cast that ballot, and of course there was no debate or anything, and we live in a bubble and have no access to any information from outside our state, so naturally we couldn't possibly be wise enough to actually be allowed the right to vote in the Democratic primary...

Posted by majkia | March 25, 2008 5:41 PM

Honestly, I am truly amazed at how efficient Democrats are at fucking up national elections.

If this goes to the convention it's over and we are all screwed.

Posted by DDP | March 25, 2008 5:45 PM

Thanks, So.

Posted by Bengt Larsson | March 25, 2008 5:52 PM

If states didn't suffer any consequences for breaking the nominating process rules, it'll be a bigger mess next time.

Posted by southpaw | March 25, 2008 5:55 PM

Nothing in his back ground would lead any rational person to believe that Obama can deliver on his rehtoric

What, exactly, is in Clinton's record that would lead any rational person to think she could deliver on hers?

Posted by justinb | March 25, 2008 5:58 PM

majkia,

In every primary held this year Democratic turnout has been much bigger than Republican turnout. Except for four states: Utah(Romney's home state), Arizona (McCain's home state) and Florida and Michigan where democrats were told their vote would not count.

Posted by bjd | March 25, 2008 6:00 PM

"..is creating a crisis situation that threatens Democratic prospects in the fall."

What really threatens Democratic prospects in the Fall is the probable nomination of a man who can't win, one who has tied the albatross of black liberation theology around the Democratic neck.

Posted by bob h | March 25, 2008 6:00 PM

What really threatens Democratic prospects in the Fall is the probable nomination of a man who can't win, one who has tied the albatross of black liberation theology around the Democratic neck.

because it was obama who made this false connection. riiight.

Posted by john b | March 25, 2008 6:08 PM

How dare we think we knew enough to cast a ballot on Jan 29th and actually think it should count.

*Please* tell me that was snark, and that you're not really complaining that Florida voters won't get counted because they were paying absolutely no attention to WTF was happening ...

Posted by justinb | March 25, 2008 6:08 PM

Are we at least ready to end the debate on whether or not a long primary is a good thing? I can't believe some of you fucking idiots thought this would actually BENEFIT the party. Shame on Democratic leaders for not stepping up and telling Hillary to get fucking serious. Pelosi seems to be trying a bit, but more needs to be said. I should be murdered for voting for Hillary in the primary. It was very early if that helps my case.

Posted by Sandy | March 25, 2008 6:09 PM

Heaven forbid the Democratic Party shouldn't rubber stamp a nominee with...Hell, I don't know HOW much support Obama actually has! Where can I enroll in that course in Obama Math? Can't Keith Olbermann just clear it up for us in a Super Delegate Special Comment?

Posted by eddie | March 25, 2008 6:24 PM

eddie: Here's the Obama math.

Obama is way ahead in delegates, which is how the party decides who wins the nomination. He is also ahead in popular votes, and she's not going to catch him there, either. That's pretty much it.

The Clinton math appears to be a four-month long course, requiring an understanding of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and n-dimensional space. To be honest, I'm pretty sure I flunked it.

Posted by TedL | March 25, 2008 6:43 PM

Heaven forbid the Democratic Party shouldn't rubber stamp a nominee with...Hell, I don't know HOW much support Obama actually has

What part of 'Clinton cannot, under any circumstances, get the nomination unless the voters choice is overturned' do you not understand?

Do you really not get that the longer this goes on the longer McCain gets a free ride?

Do you really not understand that there's no chance that Clinton can win unless she convinces around 70% of the current uncommitted supers to vote for her, against the voters in the primaries and caucuses? Do you really not understand that there's no way in hell this is going to happen, and therefore her continued candidacy is either a setup for 2012 or egomania, or both?

Posted by justinb | March 25, 2008 6:45 PM

Support the Monster long enough, and her supporters become monsters themselves.

Everything about the Monster's candidacy - her supposed experience, her alleged readiness to lead on day one, the purported fact that she has already been vetted, etc. - is as mythical as the Bosnian sniper fire.

Posted by blah | March 25, 2008 6:48 PM

Congratulations, Matt.

This post is yet another WWTSBQ post, and you're gonna earn Hillary another $10 bucks. We thank you! Hillary thanks you!

Posted by Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA | March 25, 2008 7:31 PM

Translation: Really, I don't see what those Floridians and Michiganders are complaining about. If she would only go ahead and allow the Florida and Michigan votes to become absolutely meaningless, then we can quickly clear up this matter and allow them to vote! (With the corollary, of course, being that so long as their votes might actually bear import to the democracy, we aren't allowing them anywhere near a polling booth.)

Posted by Trickster | March 25, 2008 8:05 PM

"...the main obstacle to a satisfactory resolution of the Florida/Michigan situation is that Clinton continues to be in the race."
Yessir. The best way to end yearning for democracy among the masses is to hold the king's coronation.

Posted by Henry | March 25, 2008 8:23 PM

Translation: Really, I don't see what those Floridians and Michiganders are complaining about.

I've decided that all my future responses to Clinton supporters on this issue will consist of Notorious B.I.G. lyrics.

So, to kick it off . . .

I been in this game for years, it made me a animal
Its rules to this shit, I wrote me a manual
A step by step booklet for you to get
Your game on track, not your wig pushed back
. . .
Number four: know you heard this before
Never get high, on your own supply

Posted by southpaw | March 25, 2008 8:27 PM

"Yessir. The best way to end yearning for democracy among the masses is to hold the king's coronation."

One more chance
Biggie Biggie give me one more chance

Posted by southpaw | March 25, 2008 8:33 PM

An Obama sweep of Indiana and North Carolina would convince me even after a beating in Pennsylvania. It's all about winning primaries from here on out.

Posted by Undecided | March 26, 2008 12:03 AM

Christ, Matt, these Clinton nitwits are getting tedious.

Will you PLEASE stop posting ANYTHING on the election until JUNE?

Either that or I'm just going to have to start skipping any post you make concerning the election.

Which means, lately, I'm stuck with either your sports or your music posts - both of which suck even worse.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | March 26, 2008 2:29 AM

If Clinton cared about Michigan and Florida, she would have already fired Ickes from her campaign for voting for stripping those states of their delegates. The she is winning in superdelegates because she is winning in DNC superdelegates - the people who voted to strip MI and FL of their delegates - while Obama is leading in elected official (senators, House reps, governors, etc.) superdelegates. If you really think Clinton cares about those states, you are frankly being naive.

Considering that Huckabee and Clinton's own minister have come out in support of Obama over Wright and that Obama still has higher positive than either Clinton after Wright, I'm not too worried. Think about that: the Wright business was supposed to be the Republicans' secret weapon against Obama, yet it didn't make any real dent in his support. Since Wright became an issue, he pulled ahead of Clinton in the Gallup poll, polled the same as her vs. McCain and actually pulled closer to her in PA in the Rasmussen poll. The worst dirt on him failed to bring him down to her level in popularity.

Posted by Reality Man | March 26, 2008 4:57 AM

In the spirit of posting rap lyrics, here's Mr. Lif's "Brothaz" off the 2006 album "Mo' Mega":

"Fact three:
The Bush Administration's worth nothing
Just fuck 'em!
Throw 'em in the barrel, buck 'em!
Oh, you ain't know them flood waters was coming?
You can't smell that african blood running?
Oh, to y'all n*****s is worthless or something?
Fuck Clinton too!
You ain't really down because you live uptown, bitch
Rwanda!"

Posted by Reality Man | March 26, 2008 5:09 AM

I'm not an Obama fan. I think Hillary is much better suited to run the country. But I do think she should really consider getting out while she still has a possibility of a credible future in politics. There are many actions her campaign took that are, at the very least, questionable, and at the worst, dirty and offensive. With that said, I also don't think anyone should discount the role of the media in this monumentally, shitty election. Media coverage in this country has reached morale-shattering depths but very few people want to discuss the effects of this on the population. Sadly, people like Keith Olbermann, the shrill little bitch, have been given a platform to air their personal views and pass it off as news, which can alienate as many people as Fox News, that bastion of reactionary incorrectness. Of course, there are those that will say the media doesn't count and people can make up their own minds. If that were the case, things like advertising wouldn't exist. It's not Hillary or Obama who should really be hated; it's the whores who tell us how to think about them.

Posted by reba | March 26, 2008 10:52 AM

There shouldn't be a revote in Michigan or Florida. Everyone involved understood what was going to happen, and no one protested against it until Hillary realized after the fact that it would be to her advantage to do so. Is it messed up? Absolutely. The whole primary system is messed up. But everyone knew what the rules were. Michigan would have its vote on this date, Florida would have its vote on this date, these dates broke the rules, they were therefore going to lose delegates. Those were the rules. You can't go back and claim a do-over. We're electing a president, not playing kickball at recess.

And I live in Michigan, FWIW.

Posted by Ted | March 26, 2008 12:07 PM

Yeah, I've had the "I live in Michigan" talking point at my place too.

Punish the voters of FL and MI for the sins of their party "leaders"?

What could be the problem? What could go wrong?

Silly voters! Voting for Hillary!

Posted by lamber strether | March 26, 2008 12:15 PM