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Goolsbeegate

04 Mar 2008 01:42 pm

I'd like to officially register my surprise that "Goolsbeegate" is turning out to have all these legs. It's a totally legitimate story, though I have trouble getting outraged about it since I agree with Goolsbee on the merits of NAFTA. That said, I'm mostly filled with bitterness and rage. Back during the 2004 campaign, I did a story full of on the record quotes from Laura Tyson, one of Kerry's top economic advisors, promising that Kerry's rhetoric about trade was bullshit:

"When people say, 'well, listen to what the Kerry campaign has said about trade in some of the primaries, we are concerned that Senator Kerry will move the US away from trade integration,'" she said, she tells them to "think about the issue of national campaigns in the US" and to "recognize that what might be said in one primary ... is not an indicator of the future."

Tyson further argued that Kerry would be able to liberalize trade more than Bush has, because Kerry would support policies that help compensate the inevitable losers in globalization -- a step that will allegedly drain the swamp of anti-trade sentiment. Lest it be thought that Tyson's commitment to the multilateral process and to continued trade integration leaves plenty of wriggle room to keep the process but add, say, environmental standards into the mix, she explicitly disavowed this option during a later exchange. Adding environmental issues to the WTO's brief might bog it down and impede progress on further integration.

"I want to assure you that a Kerry-Edwards administration will continue in the great American tradition of leading the way on global economic integration," she concluded.

I got exactly zero bounce from this article even though, in my opinion, it was much more solidly grounded than a story about a memo about something someone told a diplomat at a party*. Since that time, I've tried to eschew reporting.

Stepping away from my bitterness, you have two candidates, both of whose economic advisory teams are full of proponents of trade deals, both of whom are now campaigning in a state where trade deals are very unpopular, both talking the trade-skeptic talk while also trying to quietly reassure other key constituencies that the Washington Consensus is a alive and well. The larger irony here is that the multilateral trade process as a whole ran aground several years ago over agricultural issues and shows no signs of reviving no matter who wins the election. We're left to argue over deals with tiny countries like Peru and Costa Rica where the impact either way on a giant country like the USA isn't going to be noticeable.

* I can perhaps now reveal that also during the 2004 cycle I actually did get to talking to a Canadian diplomat at a party who relayed to me concerns that it would put NATO members in an awkward position if President Kerry offered to hand political authority in Iraq over to a UN body in exchange for securing an international peacekeeping force there, since nobody really wanted to contribute to such a force but they didn't have any good off-the-shelf excuses to say "no."

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Comments (84)

As a Democratic voter, I am troubled by the protectionist talk of both Obama and Clinton, although Obama has made pains to say that we shouldn't "draw a moat" around this country.

It grew legs because:

1) team Clinton has manipulated the media extremely well over the last week, and
2) there's not much of anything of substance for the media to write about on Obama, but
3) this story allows them to knock down one of his strengths, which is the value of his rhetoric.

In the midst of this, nobody in the MSM is discussing the Clinton tax returns. While I despise them with every bone in my body, you have to hand this round to them.

Sorry bud, you've lost all credibility as far as this election goes... showing your bias is expensive, now deal with it.

"It grew legs because"

It grew legs in no small part because Austan Goolsbee, like Mark Penn, is anathema to Democrats with a brain.

Does anyone else find it extremely odd that Clinton has basically morphed into Dennis Kucinich on trade policy?

Kerry didn't have a primary opponent at that point.

Goolsbee is a repeat offender and should at minimum be kept out of the limelight. He should probably not be given any decision making authority, but he definitely should be kept around to give his interesting opinions.

A minor success for a combined strategy of demogoguery--whining about the media and an innuendo campaign about NAFTA and Rezko. Just like with her dumbing down of the national security debate, it's short-sighted, self-serving triangulation that helps Clinton this week and hurts the party in the long run.

In a nutshell, Clintonism.

It got legs because the Democratic wing of the Democratic party is actually having a say in the choosing of the president.

Representing the right wing of the Democratic party, you may not like this so much, but that's the way it is.

Sadly, we're picking between a pair of neoliberals, but at least they're being forced to listen to the concerns of the left.

Let's say Goolsbee did indeed tell the Canadians that it's a load of BS, we're going to be great friends, fear not. Why would the Canadian government then leak that?

Why would the Canadian government hold meetings to discuss their outrage over this new wave of protectionism if they didn't think it was real?

"Goolsbee is a repeat offender and should at minimum be kept out of the limelight. He should probably not be given any decision making authority, but he definitely should be kept around to give his interesting opinions."

His "interesting opinions" are the ones that have made Obama reject Democratic economic policy.

He ought to be fired, not because of his making Obama into a liar on NAFTA, but instead for his Marty Peretz-like economic ideas.

Austan Goolsbee is a pragmatist, who views policy based on the merits.

As I've told everyone who will listen (not so many folks), I still don't see WHY the CANADIANS care about tightening ENVIRO and LABOR standards in NAFTA.

Aren't Canada's enviro and labor standards as good as or better than ours? If so, what's the big deal?

As far as I can tell, it's Mexico who should be worried, not Canada.

Many manufacturing workers themselves realize that India and China are the real threats today, not Mexico.

I'd like to read any memos on what Clinton or her surrogates have told the Canadian government regarding NAFTA.
The Tories obviously are trying to bring down Obama so McCain can beat Hillary in November. That's why they're leaking this.

Let's say Goolsbee did indeed tell the Canadians that it's a load of BS, we're going to be great friends, fear not. Why would the Canadian government then leak that?

Because it's a right-wing government out to boost McCain by damaging his most threatening rival. Not rocket science.

This meddling by Canada won't be forgotten.

1% of the explanation: Goolsbee is a lot more fun to say than Tyson

4% of the explanation: International intrigue

95% of the explanation: So you really haven't figured out yet that the media keeping Clinton around is good for business?

By the way, I am fascinated by the people claiming Goolsbee is some sort of nefarious arch-conservative secretly plotting to destroy the hopes and dreams of progressive children everywhere. In particular, those claims seem awfully short on specifics.

"This meddling by Canada won't be forgotten."

Blame Canada.

Ignore the fact that Obama spent a solid week lying through his teeth about this whole mess.

Ignore the fact that Goolsbee should obviously be fired.

Just blame Canada.

My opinion is that it resulted from Obama's failure to play nice with the press ("Come on, I've answered like 8 questions!" - as compared to McCain answering like 36 after the NYTimes story came out) combined with the Republican and Clinton attack line that the press is giving him fawning coverage (just because it was an attack doesn't make it untrue, of course). It was too much pressure on the press to continue to cover for him.

OK, Petey, you know more about Democrats that I do, so correct me here: I knew that supporting social security and publicly funded health care are important to "Democratic economic policy." But protectionism? I think you're wrong about that one. There's quite a division among Democrats, just as there is among Republicans, with the people who know what they're talking about supporting free trade and the people who don't know what they're talking about opposing it. And, the politicians who should know better but keep pandering to the nativists and xenophobes in both parties.

Petey, maybe you should convince St. Ralph to pick Lou Dobbs as his running mate.

Ignore the fact that Goolsbee should obviously be fired.

He doesn't actually work for the campaign.

Funny how all the details make this "scandal" have less and less there there, isn't it?

It started out as Obama calling the Canadian Ambassasor.

Then the campaign called the Canadian Ambassador.

Then it turned out an unpaid advisor had an unofficial conversation with someone from the Chicago consulate, without the approval or knowledge of the candidate or the campaign, and what was said is in dispute.

The story has Legs, until the media gets off their butt and shows the American people this.

"Ignore the fact that Obama spent a solid week lying through his teeth about this whole mess."

I'm with Petey on this one. Maybe Obama is acting like a politician, just like the rest of the folks in DC. Is he still the anointed one?

"But protectionism? I think you're wrong about that one."

FWIW, too many steves, I'm a free trader as long as free trade is combined with genuinely robust social spending.

Combine free trade with things like universal healthcare and universal higher education aid, and I'm a happy camper.

Goolsbee's sliminess on economics goes far beyond trade. His sin in the NAFTA business is his willingness to repeatedly lie and make a liar out of his candidate, Barack Obama.

It's had legs because of a rare bit of poor crisis management by the Obama team. Goolsbee may have at first denied to the higher ups in the campaign that he told the Canadians anything, or may not have given them the full story. By the time they did, the narrative was getting confused.

Or they might have just made the wrong call on how to respond. If Obama had come out on the first day and declared that Goolsbee was talking out of school and that he was happy to make his position on NAFTA clear to any reporter who wanted to talk about it, it might have gone differently.

I haven't seen anything suggesting that Obama lied about it. Point to some specifics or STFU.

I'm not sure that either Clinton or Obama are exactly supporting the actual Washington Consensus. Those were actual bullet points, not just a vague idea that "capitalism and free trade = good, communism = bad."

"He doesn't actually work for the campaign."

Billy Shaheen didn't "actually work" for the Clinton campaign. But the Clinton campaign still cleaned house and got rid of him when he fucked up.

The Obama campaign has decided to adopt a more Bushian stonewall strategy with Goolsbee. Goolsbee lies and makes Obama into a liar, and they stand by him.

Perhaps they understand that they're at risk of losing the support of General Electric if they fire Goolsbee. It's Goolsbee's economic policies that have endeared the Obama campaign to the likes of General Electric and Marty Peretz.

Obama wasn't lying, the MCM (corporate media) is pushing a lie from one Corporate conservative leader, to another, meant to undermine a person running for President. The Canadians have called their Prime minster out on the lie, and he has had to back off of it.

Our media (which also ignores great death and destruction in Iraq, it won't even show the fallen soldiers) keeps pushing the lie.

Watch the video.

This is just another example of the easy lie Obama employs repeatedly whenever he being held accountable. This time however he got caught red handed by a written memo.

Who cares who said what to whatever Canadian.

Renegotiating NAFTA, or even scrapping it altogether, ain't saving any jobs in Northeast Ohio or bringing any lost jobs back, and campaigning on the false promise that it will is what actual progressive Dems should be up in arms about. A real trade agenda has to be much broader than just NAFTA.

Let's have some real solutions to real problems, not these make believe, feel good solutions. The proclivity of both campaigns to simply pander to Ohioans has been disappointing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSx-wUvQztQ

This shows the Canadians were lying, why do people want to keep this lie going. It also shows that the Canadians want to re-negotiate NAFTA, they have the same problems we do.

Not like journalist are interested in the truth. Half of these reporters would be better suited to live in Russia.

Again, people like Petey are throwing around a lot of accusations without specifics to back them up.

It makes one wonder if those specifics even exist.

"Again, people like Petey are throwing around a lot of accusations without specifics to back them up. It makes one wonder if those specifics even exist."

You think Austan Goolsbee doesn't exist? Or you think that Canada doesn't exist?

The Ron Paul-like fanaticism of Obama supporters has been flagging lately. Good to see you picking it back up, DTM.

(And FWIW, I'd feel a lot less hostile to Obama if Austan Goolsbee didn't exist.)

Petey,

Give it up - HRC is the right-wing candidate in the Democratic race, she's been a centrist since the 1980s, she doesn't have a progressive bone in her body. Yes, it's true, Obama is too cozy with GE and other big corporate interests, and he won't institute a radical shift to the left, but he's still more progressive than Ms. Wal-Mart and her hawkish advisors. All the blustering in the world won't change that. And don't think Peretz won't turn on Obama as soon as Barack gets the nomination locked up.

As I've told everyone who will listen (not so many folks), I still don't see WHY the CANADIANS care about tightening ENVIRO and LABOR standards in NAFTA.

Aren't Canada's enviro and labor standards as good as or better than ours? If so, what's the big deal?

Because it's not really about labor and environmental standards, it's about clearing the ground for tarrifs. Labor and environmental standards are just being used a convenient excuse to oppose trade deals without having to defend protectionism. That's why entities that are generally disinterested in international labor and environmental standards suddenly demand them when trade deals come up. Clinton and Obama aren't tripping over each other running away from NAFTA because Ohio voters are exceptionally concerned with its lack of labor and environmental standards.

The Ron Paul-like fanaticism of Obama supporters has been flagging lately. Good to see you picking it back up, DTM.

Unfortunately, Petey's penchant for non sequiturs, strawmen arguments, and unsupported assertsions never flags.

"she's been a centrist since the 1980s, she doesn't have a progressive bone in her body."

Clinton adopted the Edwards universal healthcare plan while Obama has run Harry & Louise ads attacking universal healthcare.

Good enough for me to support Clinton and oppose Obama.

I'm anti-Goolsbeeism.

Petey,

You have referenced Goolsbee's economic policies without descibing any of his policies.

You have also claimed that Goolsbee has lied without specifying any of his statements which you believe are lies.

Let's start there.

"And don't think Peretz won't turn on Obama as soon as Barack gets the nomination locked up."

So, the fact that the folks like Peretz and General Electric who are currently propping up the Obama campaign are going to turn on him if he gets the nomination is reason to support him?

Odd logic, to my ears.

Petey, most of your fellow former Edwards diehards have come to a different conclusion as to whom they will support in the Democratic primary, including several prominent labor unions. But you know better.

You apparently don't care about foreign policy, only domestic issues, so the massive judgment gap on the Iraq War doesn't mean anything to you.

Beyond that, Hillary has already failed to build a coalition to pass universal healthcare once in her career, and has shown no signs of growth in that department.

Choosing to support or not someone b/c of what Marty Peretz does or doesn't do is awfully dumb, in my view.

Notice that Petey:

-never articulates the differences between the Clinton and Obama healthcare plans
-never explains the impact of the differences
-never explains how the Clinton and Edwards plans are identical
-never explains how Clinton attacking Obama for wanting to raise taxes on the rich fits into his bullshit narrative
-never explains how he went from advocating a brilliant electoral strategy for attracting voters to the Democratic Party to advocating that only "real" Democrats count

Sorry for going on about this, but the transparent dishonesty and stupidity is staggering. And then he calls other people loons! WTF????

So, the fact that the folks like Peretz and General Electric who are currently propping up the Obama campaign are going to turn on him if he gets the nomination is reason to support him?

No, the fact that they support him is not a big deal, despite the fact you keep harping on it. No politician is ever going to get elected under our current "democratic" system in this country without some level of corporate support. It's perfectly true that Obama is hardly a model of what progressives really want, but I fail to see how that makes Hilary look any better. If you've really pinned your hopes on Hilary because you're hoping for universal healthcare, well, good luck with that. I'll believe it when I see it.

"HRC is the right-wing candidate in the Democratic race"

And Prince Barack is the left-wing candidate, I presume? That's interesting, I never thought the lefty in the race would vote for Cheney's nefarious Energy bill and attack the prospect of universal health care with right wing talking points.

"You have referenced Goolsbee's economic policies without descibing any of his policies."

In short, consistent hostility to government programs.

Very close to Tim Russert, and very far from the Democratic consensus.

His stuff is googleable, if you want to learn more.

"HRC is the right-wing candidate in the Democratic race"

And vote for supplmental funding for Iraq while using anti-gay bigotry as wedge in SC? No way, that's some shit Wellstone and Feingold would do. Right.

MattXIV:

Even if you are correct and the underlying dispute is really about tariffs and everyone is just hiding the ball, it still strikes me that this whole uproar over Canada is basically meaningless.

There is no way that we are going to impose meaningful tariffs on Canadian goods and start a trade war with one of our closest trading partners.

Ohiomeister is right,

Everyone understands that criticism of NAFTA is about our relationship with Mexico. Beyond the points that Ohiomeister made, NAFTA didn't actually change our trade relationship with Canada-- there was already a Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement in place. NAFTA merely added Mexico to the deal. So renegotiating NAFTA means going to Mexico for concessions. If Mexico called President Obama's bluff and refused to negotiate, he could withdraw the US from NAFTA but tell Canada, we will honor the earlier trade agreement (not that it would ever get that far).

Of course, Obama couldn't make this point the week before the Texas primary without risking problems with Mexican-American voters. The politics of this whole imbroglio are great, an international incident can't be honestly explained without bringing back an even bigger international incident. Mexican politicians are a bunch of prickly pears, they take offensive when Americans dare reform OUR immigration laws, if an American proposed Mexico reform THEIR trade laws, they'd go ballistic.

"It's perfectly true that Obama is hardly a model of what progressives really want, but I fail to see how that makes Hilary look any better."

Senator Clinton's willingness to push for the Edwards universal healthcare plan is what makes the difference. That's a piece of legislation that comes down the pike every 30 or 40 years, and if we nominate Clinton, we're likely to get it in the next Congress.

If you can't see the big picture, then you can't see the big picture.

I'm certainly not going to support a candidate who is actively fighting against that, especially one using Harry & Louise ads straight out of the GOP's arsenal.

The universe of domestic spending is almost entirely comprised of healthcare and pensions. If you don't care about the government's actions on those issues, I can certainly understand how you could end up supporting Obama. But I'm a social justice Democrat, so I'm in the Clinton camp.

Petey,

Heck, I can do you one better than Google: Goolsbee has a website listing his papers at the University of Chicago, and he has written a column for the NYT.

But I am asking you for specifics on his policies, not your favorite research tools. And so far, you seem to be having trouble coming up with any specifics. That makes your blanket opposition to "Goolsbeeism" a little hard to credit (when you can't, for example, describe "Goolsbeeism" in any detail).

I'm glad we drew Petey out on Goolsbee because I knew he was lying. What he just said is simply untrue and entirely unsupported:

"In short, consistent hostility to government programs. Very close to Tim Russert, and very far from the Democratic consensus. His stuff is googleable, if you want to learn more."


Posted by Petey | March 4, 2008 3:35 PM


Telling people to go google something b/c you know they most likely won't is pretty weak. If you are so sure of something, you'd be able to dig up some links of stuff that you've read to post. It would be easy to prove his point, and much harder to prove the opposite, yet he can't do so.

"I'm glad we drew Petey out on Goolsbee because I knew he was lying."

You may not agree with me. A lot of Obama supporters don't care very much about domestic policy. Another chunk of Obama supporters like the right-leaning Goolsbee policies.

You don't have agree with me on what criteria are important for selecting a Democratic nominee. But I don't lie.

Isn't the public finally becoming fed up with Obama's dishonesty?

I think that is one of the reasons Clinton is going to win today.

If the press will only do it's job correctly and report the truth about Obama repeated lies and about his corrupt pal Rezko he can finally be driven out of the campaign.

I for one am sick of him and never want to hear is empty rhetoric again.

Then where's any evidence of your Goolsbee claims?????

I care about domestic policy, including healthcare and pensions (Obama has a plan for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.), but don't believe what you said about Goolsbee or the conclusions you've reached about the possibility of Clinton passing her universal healthcare plan (or at this point of even defeating John McCain).

I also favor some sort of fair trade rather than free trade, with the devil always in the details, but I don't believe in the importance of renegotiating NAFTA, which might hurt Mexico a bit but certainly won't help American manufacturing workers.

Goolsbee lied repeatedly and Obama lied on television in Ohio. The driving force of the story is not Obama's position on NAFTA but his lying.

IF you guys are basing your claims on TV news (as opposed to just making them up), at least find a link for those of us who do not watch TV news.

I bet the TV news coverage of this issue has been dreadful, like TV news coverage generally, but I'd be interested in hearing what they are saying.

President Bush's push to create individual investment accounts in the Social Security system would hand financial services firms a windfall totaling $940 billion over 75 years, according to a University of Chicago study to be released today.

Sen. John F. Kerry plans to use the paper, by economist Austan Goolsbee, as he campaigns in Florida today, hoping to open a new line of attack against Bush. The Democratic presidential nominee is expected to say that Bush's Social Security plan is a sop to Wall Street donors, who are among the Bush campaign's biggest financial backers.

_________________________________

Petey is a stupid liar? What a surprise!

Obama Lied
His mystique died.

I can't believe I'd ever sincerely hope that Hillary somehow pulls ahead of the Artful Dodger. Your childlike fascination with Obama as superhero would be pathetic if it wasn't so dangerous that he would actually be close to executive power.

You turn on your own like Petey so quickly--just like religious zealots who cannot tolerate apostates. You are so similar to them, and you don't even realize it. You should lose your intolerance and listen to Petey-- he's the voice of sanity on your side.

But you won't. And neither will your Messiah take you to the promised land.

Petey hasn't made a *single* coherent fact-based argument yet. I'm getting tired of posting my questions in every single thread where he spouts his gibberish, only to have him ignore him, and then have some other idiot wonder about why we could turn on our dear friend.

Obama is not the messiah, he is just a fucking politician, his policy proposals are remarkably similar to Clinton's, who you like better is mainly a matter of personal preference. No shit. Of course that's not what Petey the dumbfuck is saying, Petey the dumbfuck is instead insisting that there is something called the "Edwards/Clinton" healthcare plan, that Obama's plan is meaningfully different, that Obama is anti-Democrat, anti-entitlement, and all he is doing is calling names and making vague appeals to authenticity and bogeymen, with no fact-based arguments in sight. This is horseshit. Liberalism isn't rooting for the Knicks, and even if it were Petey doesn't know shit about basketball either.

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/austan.goolsbee/research/taxcorp.pdf

That paper is all about how the corporate tax causes a gigantic deadweight loss.

Some of Goolsbee's choice works:

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/austan.goolsbee/research/taxrich.pdf

That paper shows that increased taxes on the rich lead to significantly lower taxable income.

http://www.slate.com/id/2125814/

That article defends price gouging.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/business/17milton.html?ex=1321419600&en=a0db57796ae72e19&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

That article is just about how great Milton Friedman was.

Obama supporters are childish, but Clinton supporters are dangerous. The latter, like their candidate, take the slightest hint of a whisper and spin it as much as possible.

A reporter asks Goolsbee if Obama is a protectionist and he says no? Obama lies!! He's just another politician!!!

Obama says Reagan was a transformative figure? Obama is a closet Republican!!!

Obama asked Rezko for advice on a piece of property? Obama has made illegal deals that made him more money than Clinton's business in Afghanistan!!!!

The Goolsbee piece on the late Milton Friedman says that while most people in the "outside world" associate Friedman with laissez-faire economics, but his legacy in the academy is "more about trying to understand how the world works and engaging in a debate about it." Oh the fucking horror. Ask Paul Krugman if Friedman was a good economist.

And sorry, if an academic produces work with connotations that you find ideologically disagreeable, you may want to offer to find a hole in the argument rather than just pretend that this automatically disqualifies him from advising a worthy Democratic Presidential nominee. It is flat-out incorrect and dishonest to say that Goolsbee has dedicated his academic career to finding evidence to overturn the welfare state.

And once again, if you are going to blather about the differences in the health care proposals of the various candidates, it would really really help to show that you understand *any* of the issues involved -- for example, explain how Clinton and Edwards have IDENTICAL plans (the greatest imaginable) while Obama's plan is worse than McCain's, using facts and arguments, not just handwaving about General Electric and Marty Peretz and Real Democrats.

making vague appeals to authenticity

An Obama supporter calling someone out for making vague appeals to authenticity is hilarious.

Were you smirking when you typed up that sentence
or was the irony complete lost on you?

Oh wow thanks JJM, you've really introduced facts into the debate! Now I see the truth, that mandating the purchase of health insurance makes it more affordable and increases the extent of income redistribution! Wow! And I guess Petey's not actually making vague appeals to authenticity (Marty Peretz in one corner, people who care about poor children in the other), but making substantial arguments with lots of facts and logic!

Fuck off dimwit.

Barbar, you forgot the (TM) after Real Democrats (TM).

Careful...people might click. Just putting a link in your comment doesn't work anymore. Someone might read it and realize the document at the link doesn't support your point.

Example: Socialist troll describes this paper,

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/austan.goolsbee/research/taxrich.pdf

as saying increased taxes on the rich lead to significantly lower taxable income.

Three words: No, it doesn't.


Goolsbee's paper on corporate taxes is almost entirely descriptive, and about how corporate taxes impact whether or not firms choose to incorporate.

Goolsbee's paper on taxing the rich actually shows that higher marginal rates on the rich only reduce taxable income in the very short term (as a resulting of time-shifting income, such as exercising options in anticipation of the rate increase), and that there is almost no permanent reduction in taxable income.

Goolsbee's article on price gouging following Katrina didn't argue it wasn't a problem. Rather, he argued that price-gouging properly understood may have occurred either in the hurricane zone in the short-term, or elsewhere in the longer-term (when gas stations should be lowering their prices, but might not), but that federal investigators were often looking in the wrong places at the wrong times.

Another poster already covered Friedman.

Generally, I am happy someone actually looked up some of Goolsbee's work. I can't say I am happy, however, that person chose to misrepresent it (I guess on the hope that no one would bother to check).

"The Goolsbee piece on the late Milton Friedman says that while most people in the "outside world" associate Friedman with laissez-faire economics, but his legacy in the academy is "more about trying to understand how the world works and engaging in a debate about it." Oh the fucking horror. Ask Paul Krugman if Friedman was a good economist."

Krugman agrees with Goolsbee (as do folks like Brad DeLong, for instance) that Friedman was a challenging and charismatic economist, who encouraged a lot of students and helped mentor a lot of interesting thinkers. Pretty much every economist would acknowledge that to some extent. Neither particularly spends much time praising Friedman's major individual contributions or ideas, largely because those ideas (particularly monetarism) are no longer conventional wisdom, or viewed as particularly useful.

"http://www.slate.com/id/2125814/

That article defends price gouging."

In an extremely limited instance. He specifically doesn't argue for price gouging as some sort of generalized behavior.

"http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/austan.goolsbee/research/taxrich.pdf

That paper shows that increased taxes on the rich lead to significantly lower taxable income."

Because the rich shift wage income into other forms of income not so easily taxable as salary income (which the paper proves happens to some extent). You could just as easily argue that the paper points you in the right direction on HOW to raise taxes and make that work better. Since I've personally seen Goolsbee give presentations where he's at least contemplated raising US taxation substantially, it might behoove us to see how that raise in taxation might or might not work.



General Electric and Marty Peretz..


General Electric and Marty Peretz..


General Electric and Marty Peretz..

Petey,

Guilt by association is not exactly intellectually rigorous, particularly in politics (with all the strange bedfellows).

By the way, in response to something above: I doubt you are knowingly telling lies. But so far, I also doubt you have much of a foundation for your expressed views.


Oh, dear! Oh, dear! It seems my Petey-bot 2000 has blown a gasket. But don't you worry folks, I'll crank him back up in no time.

...and maybe I can install that new talking points module that was laying around while I'm at it. The old ones were getting a bit stale weren't they.

I find it amusing that political hacks can't comprehend the idea of honest economic research. If Goolsbee writes a paper that says corporate taxes are a dead weight, then he must be a right-winger who wants to abolish corporate taxes! Or, maybe that's what the data showed.

listen to Petey-- he's the voice of sanity on your side.

Posted by Beer Here | March 4, 2008 4:34 PM

Thanks. I think your side should nominate Huckabee.

Our Petey is personally in love with John Edwards, and he is mourning in public - never a good idea. If he is more insulting than usual, he should be answered with kindness.

Is it just me, or has the quality of debate on this site really taken a nose-dive lately?

advisers can and should say: no comment

advisers can and should say: no comment

What a bunch of nonsense this pseudoscandal is. Contrary to Bush, who hires ignorant, incompetent, wealthy cronies, Obama SHOULD hire foreign policy advisors who know something about foreign policy. Knowing and talking to diplomats is going to come with the territory.

Is it just me, or has the quality of debate on this site really taken a nose-dive lately?

It's not just you. Things will probably get better again after someone, whoever, wraps up the Democratic delegates.

I don't care if people want to engage in some Petey bashing. But all indications are that he is perfectly correct on Goolsbee. For some indirect evidence take this almost fawning piece of our boy Austan from George Will
The Democratic Economist

Is Goolsbee dismayed about widening income inequality? Yes, but with a nuanced understanding. The stagnation of middle- and working-class incomes, and the anxiety that has generated, is, he says, a most pressing problem, but policymakers must be mindful about trying to address its root cause, which Goolsbee says is "radically increased returns to skill."
Note the quote marks around "radically increased returns to skill". Anyone who really thinks the massive explosion in US executive compensation or the bloated salaries passed out to MBAs starting out on Wall Street as opposed to PhDs getting their first teaching job at a community college are due to these people simply being more skilled is just fooling himself, or more likely just trying to fool you. That is an excuse for widening income inequality and not an honest attempt at an explanation. At a minimum this is not the kind of advice you want Obama to be taking. And this summation by Will tells me all I need to know.
Economics is the only academic discipline that in recent decades has moved in the direction that America and much of the world has moved, to the right. Goolsbee no doubt has lots of dubious ideas -- he is, after all, a Democrat -- about how government can creatively fiddle with the market's allocation of wealth and opportunity. But he seems to be the sort of person -- amiable, empirical and reasonable -- you would want at the elbow of a Democratic president, if such there must be.
For George Will 'empirical and reasonable' translate to 'willing to assist the current political/economic elite maintain their positions of power'.

Will is sure that Goolsbee will not fundamentally move Obama in ways that will rock the boat of the comfortable. I don't agree with Will on much but I think his take here is probably pretty much on the mark.

Attempts to suggest that Goolsbee is not really part of the campaign fall apart on examination of any number of widely published pieces which openly and repeatedly call him the head of Obama's economic team. Take this from Bloomberg.com Obama's Economic Brain Trust Breaks With `Status Quo' (Update1) I note that this break with the 'Status Quo' doesn't noticiably break in progressive directions. Lot of talks about incentives though. Let's just say that praise in a Bloomberg publication however qualified is a red alert for progressives. Or you can take this TNR piece by Scheiber The Audacity of Data:Barack Obama's surprisingly non-ideological policy shop

In some respects, the sensibility behind the behaviorist critique of economics is one shared by all the Obama wonks, whether they're domestic policy nerds or grizzled foreign policy hands. Despite Obama's reputation for grandiose rhetoric and utopian hope-mongering, the Obamanauts aren't radicals--far from it. They're pragmatists--people who, when an existing paradigm clashes with reality, opt to tweak that paradigm rather than replace it wholesale. As Thaler puts it, "Physics with friction is not as beautiful. But you need it to get rockets off the ground." It might as well be the motto for Obama's entire policy shop.
Well that is certainly a stirring progressive response to a combined 28 years of Reagan/Bushism sandwiching around a corporatist DLC triangulation system {I like you Bill C. but you were not the second coming of FDR, or even LBJ}. Because after three decades of the Economic Right framing all political-economic discourse in terms of efficient markets and inefficient government, really the way out of the box is to "tweak" the "existing paradigm". Nice way to undermine the Change message. And you don't know what to do with this
The Clintonites were moderates, but they were also ideological. They explicitly rejected the liberalism of the 1970s and '80s. The Obamanauts are decidedly non-ideological. They occasionally reach out to progressive think tanks like the Economic Policy Institute, but they also come from a world-- academic economics--whose inhabitants generally lean right. (And economists at the University of Chicago lean righter than most.) As a result, they tend to be just as comfortable with ideological diversity as the candidate they advise. Just before the Iowa caucus, I saw Goolsbee approach New York Times columnist David Brooks in Des Moines and gush when the quirky conservative agreed to pose for a picture.
So what do we have. We have a top Obama guy who 1) George Will likes, 2) got favorable coverage from Bloomberg, 3) got favorable coverage from TNR (and so perhaps indirectly from Marty, and 4) is described as 'gushing' at given the opportunity to pose with David Brooks.

Over and over the general description keeps coming up in relation of Obama's team both in its economic and foreign policy aspects 'pragmatic' 'non-ideological' which pretty much translate to business as usual, 'wouldn't be prudent' thinking. That is not what I have in mind when I think of Transformative.

I'll take Obama as a candidate and gladly. While I think the Clintons collectively got a really raw deal, the VRWC did exist and the media really did and continues to use an unfair set of Clinton Rules, they really don't make progressive hearts go pitty pat, it will be easier to achieve real change going forward with Obama. Having said that this Change Agent doesn't seem to be surrounding himself with any advocates of change.

(That may be changing. A group of fairly progressive and even radical economists who were tentatively organizing as Economist for Edwards are after Edwards departure now making approaches to the Obama campaign under the rubric (naturally) Economists for Obama. I know of at least one meeting between their leader and Goolsbee where they at least touched on Social Security from the non-crisis perspective. So at least there are open lines of communication between progressive economists and the Obama camp, whether this will result in a change in messaging or agenda is not yet clear.)

"Attempts to suggest that Goolsbee is not really part of the campaign fall apart on examination of any number of widely published pieces which openly and repeatedly call him the head of Obama's economic team."

When Goolsbee has been on Kudlow's show on CNBC, Kudlow referred to him as "the next Treasury Secretary" with little objection from Goolsbee.


Comments closed March 18, 2008.

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