Hagee on Katrina

I knew all about John Hagee's views on Catholics and his belief that John McCain has the foreign policy vision necessary to bring about the end of the world, but I'm just now focusing on this business:

All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.

This is the brand of Christianity that President McCain is going to be promoting?

Comments

What else is new? It's been the brand of Christianity the last three Republican presidents have been promoting. There's no difference between Hagee and Robertson and Falwell. (Other than Falwell being dead, that is.)

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | March 5, 2008 5:34 PM

It's compassionate!

Posted by ZednCu | March 5, 2008 5:36 PM

Hagee's anti-homosexual views will carry more weight with the media rather than his anti-Catholic views. Anti-Catholicism is the last accepted form of bigotry in America.

The South Park writers have spoken on the subject. When they write an episode slamming Mormons, Jews, Mulsims, homosexuals, they get alot of heat from the media and public. However, when they slam the Catholics, there is little uproar except from Donahue and his Catholic League.

The elites in our country despise faithful Catholics.

Posted by patrick | March 5, 2008 5:36 PM

Yeah,

They really hate Catholics in the mainstream media. Especially at NBC where Tim Russert, Brian Williams, Pat Buchanan, Chris Matthews and Mike Barnicle work.

Posted by jay | March 5, 2008 5:42 PM

We are to assume that God could not find ten just men in New Orleans (a modern God would, of course, be satisfied with ten just women)? Haven't these guys even read the Bible?

Last Sunday most mainstream Christians who attended services heard John 9, in which Jesus seems a little less than happy with the notion that misfortune is a direct retribution for sin. But then He was distressingly uninterested in gay sex.

Posted by Gene O'Grady | March 5, 2008 5:42 PM

Can you spell C-R-A-C-K-P-O-T ?

Posted by john o. | March 5, 2008 5:43 PM

Isn't it amazing that God's punishment against gays always happens to occur along the gulf coast, where hurricanes happent to appear naturally? I mean, here in Minneapolis we have a big gay pride parade every year, but strangely, no hurricanes. I suppose you could argue that our normal weather is God's punishment, but it's usually pretty nice on Pride day.

Posted by Chilly | March 5, 2008 5:45 PM

Everyone knows the Keating Five scandal was divinely inflicted as retribution for McCain's sexual infidelities.

Posted by phil | March 5, 2008 5:46 PM

Uh, have you ever taken a look at the whack-job reverend the Obama calls his mentor?

Posted by VanillaMan | March 5, 2008 5:46 PM

God seems to have some crappy aim. Or maybe taking out Haley Barbour's mansion was just the cost of taking a swat at those floating casinos upstream in Mississippi. Otherwise Gov Haley is left shaking his head and asking 'What did I do?'

Because for an entity that is the Creater of the Universe and has unlimited Wisdom and the full reach of possible punitive mechanisms at His disposal, a hurricane seems such a broad brush approach here. You would think that a plague of locusts in the French Quarter or a rain of blood on Bourbon St would send a little more focused message than tearing up two or three states.

But what do I know, unlike Hagee I don't have God on line 2.

Posted by Bruce Webb | March 5, 2008 5:49 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a book (actually a set of books) full of such dire warnings and accounts of them coming to pass? Maybe someone here knows the name of that book.

Posted by TLB | March 5, 2008 5:50 PM

I recall Smitin' Pat Robertson saying that the school district in PA that went to court to keep creationism out of their curriculum would feel the wrath of God. I heard later that the fundicrat school board members were all defeated in the next election. Maybe that was the wrath of God he was talking about?

Also, why do all the tornadoes hit the Bible belt? Does God hate trailers or something?

Posted by CParis | March 5, 2008 5:52 PM

I want to apologize for my tone. There is still anti-Catholic bias in this country. But it is not as powerful as many other forms of discrimination IMHO. I think that being obviously Muslim would be very difficult.

Posted by jay | March 5, 2008 5:58 PM

patrick whines: "The South Park writers have spoken on the subject. When they write an episode slamming Mormons, Jews, Mulsims, homosexuals, they get alot of heat from the media and public. However, when they slam the Catholics, there is little uproar except from Donahue and his Catholic League.

The elites in our country despise faithful Catholics."

Get over yourself. The fundies say the same thing. Why do so many Christians crave this idiotic mantle of faux persecution?

Most Catholics I know think the Church deserves a lot of the criticism it gets - and yet they remain Catholics. It's only the real nuts who go ballistic over every perceived slam - and yes, the zombies in the Catholic League are nuts.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | March 5, 2008 6:00 PM

All the tornadoes
hit the Bible belt - Does God
hate trailers or what?

Posted by jim | March 5, 2008 6:00 PM

This is the brand of Christianity that President McCain is going to be promoting?

As opposed to what supposedly superior brand of Christianity? Obama's? I wonder what his solution is to the problem of evil.

Posted by Mixner | March 5, 2008 6:01 PM

>>As opposed to what supposedly superior brand of Christianity?

The brand that doesn't believe that God sends hurricanes to punish cities for gay pride parades? Probably that one.

Posted by jim | March 5, 2008 6:04 PM

I wonder what would happen with this asshat if he ingested a couple of hits of windowpane and then "addressed the multitudes"?

Boy howdy; I'd pay to see that.

Posted by Jemand von Niemand | March 5, 2008 6:07 PM

Mixner squawks: "As opposed to what supposedly superior brand of Christianity? Obama's? I wonder what his solution is to the problem of evil."

I know what Dumbya's solution to the "problem of evil" has been. "Just commit it." And McCain has promised to be just like him.

No thanks.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | March 5, 2008 6:16 PM

The brand that doesn't believe that God sends hurricanes to punish cities for gay pride parades? Probably that one.

Right, because of course those Christians have a direct line to God, who assured them he just loves gay pride parades.

Posted by Mixner | March 5, 2008 6:18 PM

"This is the brand of Christianity that President McCain is going to be promoting? "

Yes [copyright: The Editors]

Posted by Barry | March 5, 2008 6:20 PM

Mixner writes: "Right, because of course those Christians have a direct line to God, who assured them he just loves gay pride parades."

I can't recall any direct actions by angels against gay pride parades... but plenty of military helicopters keep falling out of the sky. Using Hagee logic we can therefore conclude that the sky fairy hates the troops.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | March 5, 2008 6:24 PM

Where exactly did they promise to "reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades."

Was this in the parade marketing literature or something?

Posted by stand | March 5, 2008 6:31 PM

Re: The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came.

Yep. the Southern Decadence festival. But the city had forced the fest to clean up its act (which had beeen a bit notorious) in recent years, and it couldn't really hold a candle to the things that transpire in the straight blocks of Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras.
By the way, anyone recall Pat Robertson prophesying a hurricane to hit Orlando because of Disney Gay Days? When it finally did show up (Charlie in 2004) it didn't target Gay Days, but a Promise Keepers convention.

Posted by JonF | March 5, 2008 6:35 PM

I can't recall any direct actions by angels against gay pride parades...

How would you know? Big flashing neon signs announcing "Angels at Work?" All "brands" of Christianity are nonsense, Hagee's and Obama's both.

Posted by Mixner | March 5, 2008 6:37 PM

Was this in the parade marketing literature or something?

It was in a fantasy, er, I mean nightmare, Hagee had one night.

Posted by Kevin | March 5, 2008 6:45 PM

Mixner - sure, in philosophical terms, but some are more dangerous than others. Southern Baptist scriptural literalism is not orthodox Catholicism is not liberal (in the theological sense) Christianity is not liberation theology. Just like, say, the kind of Sunnism they teach at Egyptian universities is not feminist Islam is not Hezbollah is not Al Qaeda. Any good atheist really ought to understand that just because they say they believe in the same God, that doesn't mean they're the same phenomenon - to believe otherwise is, well, religious.

Posted by Kalkin | March 5, 2008 6:47 PM

Considering that Hagee is one wacky preacher who endorsed McCain and Wright is a wacky preacher who was essentially Obama's surrogate father for twenty years, Matt seems to spend a disproportionate time on Hagee's wackiness. Let's see some posts about Wright's "black value system", etc.

Posted by Fred | March 5, 2008 6:56 PM

Does "tornadoes" count as seasonal imagery? Not sure that's a proper haiku there.

Posted by phil | March 5, 2008 6:56 PM

Mixner - sure, in philosophical terms, but some are more dangerous than others.

I think you'd have a hard time showing that, at least with respect to Hagee's version of Christianity vs., say, Obama's or Hillary's. In any case, "less dangerous" doesn't mean "less stupid."

Posted by Mixner | March 5, 2008 7:08 PM

Does "tornadoes" count as seasonal imagery?

In winter? Not one.
Commenter Phil carps and smirks,
only crickets chirp.

Posted by jim | March 5, 2008 7:10 PM

Less dangerous definitely doesn't equal less stupid, but it still equals "less dangerous." Sorry, anyone that thinks Hurricane Katrina was punishment for the sins of New Orleans needs to be killed.

Posted by Todd Doug | March 5, 2008 7:21 PM

Matt,

You should check into Hagee's finances -- I hear they're pretty scandalous, but I haven't had time to check them out.

Steve

Posted by Steve Sailer | March 5, 2008 7:48 PM

Southern Decadence is on Labor Day weekend( http://www.southerndecadence.net/ ), I'm assuming that's the "parade" Mr. Hagee is referencing. Katrina made landfall on August 29th, 2005. Labor Day is in September, in 2005 it was on the 5th.

Posted by Adirondacker | March 5, 2008 8:06 PM

Hasn't this dingbat ever read the Book of Job?

Or for that matter, the Sermon on the Mount?
"Rain falls on the just and unjust, alike."

Never mind non-linear dynamics as it applies to the atmosphere, I'll settle for some literacy in his own subject of (Hah!) expertise.

Posted by heedless | March 5, 2008 8:10 PM

Re "This is the brand of Christianity that President McCain is going to be promoting? "
-------------
1) Matthew was deprived of several things due to his unfortunate New York City upbringing.

For example, Matthew was never indoctrinated into the adept practice and profound mysteries of Southern hypocrisy. Truly, it is an art form.

2) For example, you can have Reverend John Hagee say this:
""Christians don't steal or lie, they don't get divorced or have abortions "

While at the same time Reverend Hagee's wiki bio notes:

"In October 1966, Hagee founded Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas.[citation needed] He resigned his pastorate in May 1975. Hagee and Martha divorced on grounds of Pastor Hagee's infidelity in September 1975, and Hagee married Diana on April 12, 1976. [2]."
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#Biography

3) In terms of theological doctrine, the Catholics don't recognize the Protestant Mass, The Protestants don't recognize the infallibility of the Pope, and fellow Southern preachers don't recognize each other if they accidently meetup at a whorehouse.

Posted by Don Williams | March 5, 2008 8:15 PM

This post needs a photo of McCain with Hagee.

Like this one:
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/02/27/PH2008022702958.jpg

Also, maybe start talking about his book:
http://www.evangelicalright.com/john%20hagee.jpg

Posted by southpaw | March 5, 2008 8:19 PM

Steve Sailer writes: "You should check into Hagee's finances -- I hear they're pretty scandalous, but I haven't had time to check them out."

Of course not. Sailer's been too busy reading Michelle Obama's ancient schoolwork to find smoking guns showing how she's a whitey-hating idiot.

I wonder who funds Sailer.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | March 5, 2008 8:24 PM

Re Steve Sailer's comment "You should check into Hagee's finances -- I hear they're pretty scandalous, but I haven't had time to check them out."
--------------
Ole Steve's giving you PEARLS here, Matthew.

Just the fucking TIP of the Titantic iceberg:

"In 2003, the San Antonio Express-News reported that, in 2001 alone, John Hagee had received over 1.25 million dollars in total compensation for his position as CEO at his non-profit corporation, Global Evangelism Television (GETV). This made him one of the highest-paid televangelists in 2001 [14].

According to the Form 990 that GETV filed for tax year 2003, Hagee received almost a million dollars in compensation for his work for GETV that year, which amounted to approximately 16 hours per week [15]. (The GETV Board of Directors, which determines his pay, consisted of John Hagee himself, his wife, his son, and a Cornerstone Church member.) "

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#Financial_controversy

Ha ha ha. JESUS CHRIST didn't earn $1 Million per year. But then Jesus wasted a lot of time on that do-gooder stuff -- he wasn't really EXECUTIVE level material like John Hagee.

Posted by Don Williams | March 5, 2008 8:25 PM

Re: I think you'd have a hard time showing that, at least with respect to Hagee's version of Christianity vs., say, Obama's or Hillary's.

Let's see: Hagee wants to start a world war (while persecuting gays, feminists, and non-Christians in general). Hillary and Obama want to institute a better social safety net and maybe spend a bit money of foreign aid to the poor. Come on, anyone whose moral compass is hopelessly haywire can see that the former is far more dangerous.

Re: Southern Decadence is on Labor Day weekend( http://www.southerndecadence.net/ ), I'm assuming that's the "parade" Mr. Hagee is referencing. Katrina made landfall on August 29th, 2005. Labor Day is in September, in 2005 it was on the 5th.

Southern Decadence is a week-long festival culminating on Labor Day weekend. Presumably the parade Hagee was talking about was the opening day parade.
And I'm not sure if it was Hagee or some other Fundalunatic, but that same year someone claimed that Hurricane Wilma was punishment for Key West's Fantasy Fest, a large (and not just gay) Halloween festival which was cancelled by the storm. The Bible-thumpers' god really doesn't like Halloween either, you know.

Posted by JonF | March 5, 2008 9:01 PM

"Get over yourself. The fundies say the same thing. Why do so many Christians crave this idiotic mantle of faux persecution?" tbmlj

If you know anything about history it's not faux. The idea "Christianity" has been persecuted in the US might be difficult to support, but the idea some denominations have been mistreated is not.

In New Hampshire Catholics weren't allowed to run for public office until 1876. John Jay wanted to keep Catholics from being full citizens. In the 20th century the KKK attacked Catholics. In the whiter Midwestern states the KKK expanded to they sometimes focused their hostility most on immigrant Catholics. In parts of the south Italian Catholics were victims of lynching.

In the secular arena H. G. Wells, Avro Manhattan, and others encouraged Vatican conspiracy theories. Eleanor Roosevelt may have bought into these to some extent. There has been exactly 1 Catholic President and he barely won. Plus he won by distancing himself from the religion as much as he could.

Although I don't know if I'd say the current media is anti-Catholic. Still lapsed Catholics are often in the media and lapsed or former members usually dislike a religion more than anyone. Also the Catholic Church is not based in the US and traditionally rejects some American values. In Catholicism an individual's interpretation of the truth is not seen as particularly important. An individual's conscience can be flawed. Also celibacy is valued. America was founded on a mainline-Protestant/Deist culture with Catholics at best a tolerated minority. Hence cries of "No King and No Popery" were common with the Founders.

Posted by Thomas R | March 5, 2008 9:35 PM

the Catholics don't recognize the Protestant Mass

Good thing - neither do the Protestants.

Protestants don't celebrate Mass.

Posted by low-tech cyclist | March 5, 2008 9:43 PM

the Catholics don't recognize the Protestant Mass Good thing - neither do the Protestants. Protestants don't celebrate Mass.

I know some Episcopalians who would beg to differ with you, low-tech. While we're more likely to refer to the Eucharist, high-church Episcopalians and Anglicans will also talk about the communion service as the Mass.

Posted by Dave Pooser | March 5, 2008 10:45 PM

Since the Catholic thing and the God-punishing-gays thing seem to have gotten intertwined, I might recall the wise words of John Paul II (of whom I am distinctly not an admirer) when he visited San Francisco in the early days of the AIDS epidemic. When asked if he thought AIDS was God's way of punishing 'em for being too frisky (old San Francisco joke), he replied, "It's hard to know the will of God." Anyone who maintains otherwise is unlikely to be much of a Christian.

Posted by Gene O'Grady | March 5, 2008 10:59 PM

You know that thing Bugs Bunny used to do when someone was crazy, rapidly moving his finger over his lips while making a "bee-bee-bee" sound? Maybe we should call that the Hagee:

"He said he wanted to spread Santorum across my ass, but I just told him he was crazy and flashed him a Hagee."

Posted by Reality Man | March 6, 2008 12:31 AM

Reality Man writes: ""He said he wanted to spread Santorum across my ass, but I just told him he was crazy and flashed him a Hagee.""

"And he said he wouldn't Douthat, but if you rolled over he'd give you a Sailer."

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | March 6, 2008 1:03 AM

Sounds like an agent of intolerance to me.

Posted by bob h | March 6, 2008 7:15 AM

Why is America the land of religious wackos?

Posted by Heinrich | March 6, 2008 8:47 AM

"I wonder what would happen with this asshat if he ingested a couple of hits of windowpane and then "addressed the multitudes"?

Probably nothing: who would notice the difference?

Posted by Jay C | March 6, 2008 8:58 AM

The elites in our country despise faithful Catholics.

Does the US Supreme Court know this?

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | March 6, 2008 9:03 AM

"Still lapsed Catholics are often in the media and lapsed or former members usually dislike a religion more than anyone. "

I think that isn't true about Catholics anymore. I know some bitter ex-fundies, but the lapsed Catholics I know like the term "ethnically Catholic". We like to borrow our religious brethren's sense of persecution every once in a while. We're much more like ex-Jews nowadays.

Posted by Njorl | March 6, 2008 9:26 AM

Wait, so God anticipated Southern Decadence thirty years in advance, and purposely made the Corps of Engineers stupid enough to build shitty levees, and made Congress stupid enough not to call the Dutch and figure out how to pay for a better system? Damn.

Posted by alli | March 6, 2008 10:54 AM

@ alli: It's that omnipotence thingy. Convenient for anticipating blasphemy, sin, and inspiring behavioral paranoia.

Posted by SpinyNorman | March 7, 2008 12:18 PM

@ alli: It's that omnipotence thing. Convenient for anticipating blasphemy, sin, and inspiring behavioral paranoia.

Posted by SpinyNorman | March 7, 2008 12:18 PM