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Maybe He Should Have Briefings

20 Mar 2008 01:04 pm

hamantaschen%201.jpg

More ignorance from John McCain:

When McCain made a foreign policy gaffe in Jordan on Tuesday, it was Sen. Joe Lieberman who quietly pointed out the mistake, giving McCain an opportunity to correct himself in front of the international press corps. In Israel yesterday, NBC’s Lauren Appelbaum reports, Lieberman once again intervened when McCain made an incorrect reference about the Jewish holiday Purim -- by calling the holiday "their version of Halloween here."

Admittedly this falls more in the "haha he doesn't know what he's talking about" category than in the "holy shit he doesn't know what he's talking about" category where the Iran/al-Qaeda confusion belongs.

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Comments (53)

I hope Lieberman is making at least $15 an hour babysitting John McCain.

mmm, Hamantaschen. i ate a box of them this week.

Purim is a lot like Halloween. At least, it's celebrated by wearing costumes, partying, and giving your neighbors treats.

What AJD said. (Also, traditionally, by drinking a lot.)

And what cleek said. Man, those look good.

That's precisely how I refer to Purim. It's a pretty standard cultural analogy.

Homemade triangular cookies are completely different from mini-Snickers bars. In a month when the day to drink green beer and the day to eat immense chocolate rabbits are less than a week apart, we must keep our holiday culinary traditions straight.

That's just....it's kind of weird. The story of Esther and the story of ghosts and goblins abroad on the Eve of All Saints Day are really far apart. Most Christians should be familiar with Esther's story.

Yeah, I gotta stick up for McCain on this one. Is Purim really the Jewish "version" of Halloween? Hardly. But is it characterized as such by tons of secular Jews in America? Yes. Let's focus on the "holy shit" moments, of which there are plenty, rather than the opportunities to be holier than thou.

Deborah--

It is to laugh. Most Christian can't name the Gospels.

It's nice to see the MSM getting into the 'John McCain says a lot of nonsense' groove. That can only help later.

Let's focus on the "holy shit" moments, of which there are plenty, rather than the opportunities to be holier than thou.

In a completely secular way, of course. With respect to both the shit and the opportunities.

Maybe the Rs should have nominated Joementum!

One of the sucky things about living alone halfway around the world is that when Purim comes around, I can't steal Hamantaschen from my Jewish ex-roommate.

Interesting that you use a picture of hamantashen, since Austan Goolsbee is a known latke extremist and hater of decent hamantashen everywhere.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/07/071115.latke.shtml

Do we want a president who would openly associate with such a man?

"I hope Lieberman is making at least $15 an hour babysitting John McCain."

That really comes down to the diaper situation.

I have to agree with some of the previous commentators; the analogy is pretty apt, and pretty common. In Israel - where lots of kids are in the street with costumes - it feels a lot like Halloween. Here is an article in Haaretz referring to Halloween as "America's version of Purm."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/964476.html

So, what I'm understanding is that Matthew is wrong about there being no Iran/al Qaeda link AND Matthew is wrong about Purim not being the Jewish Halloween.

Matthew's being wrong a lot lately.

OK, I admit it. For a split second, I thought that image was not suitable for work. What I saw first was a cluster of bended knees arranged in some kind of tantric orgy. I was reaching for the scroll bar when I identified it as a tray of pastries of some kind. I can still see it if I squint. Is this just me?

"Purim is a lot like Halloween."

Of course, that is what Purim is like even to many Jews and I am highly observant. I find no reason to ridicule John McCain, especially for something like this.

Certainly, for various reasons, Purim is more "the Jewish Mardi Gras" than the "the Jewish Halloween". In some ways, in terms of the seasons, one could say Simchas Torah is the Jewish Halloween (and Sukkos is certainly the Jewish Thanksgiving) -- but when do we Jews wear costumes?

Of course, Purim is also the Jewish Christmas -- we give gifts (traditionally only gelt was given at Hannukah).

Of course, the spring/fall confusion is nothing unusual -- some have argued that many of the events associated with the Christian story of the Resurrection would make more sense if they were associated with Sukkos rather than Passover.

Anyway, it's all silly -- everyone knows that Purim and Passover are both different aspects of Nowruz. We Jews loved Nowruz so much we weren't content to make our Spring Pilgrimage Festival into Nowruz. We needed to add an additional festival with a Persian theme as well! :)

Purim, Succoth, no big diff, right?

Al,

so that you know, I read your moronic post before I realized it was you who was the moron. You are really the slimiest of trolls ever. Beyond disgustingly moronic.

PaulC:
Just you. The rest of us all said "Mmm, cookies!"

I am hopelessly Anglo-Saxon - I am about to make a turkey-mayo sandwich and the only cheese in the house is American - and my only knowledge of Purim comes from the Chris Guest movie "For Your Consideration," where the movie being made was "Home for Purim."

BUT

If McCain's description was OK, when did Holy Joe Lieberman step forward to correct him?

Of course, I meant "why" did Joe correct him, not "when."

If the contest for the White House followed the rules of "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire," John McCain would be going home empty-handed. At last four times in the past month, George W. Bush's would-be Republican successor sounded the alarm over a non-existent Al Qaeda-Iran alliance in Iraq. But for a lifeline from Joe Lieberman, McCain would have been booted off the stage by now.

For the details, see:
"Four Strikes and You're Out: McCain on Al Qaeda and Iran."

You know, the pigeon is really the American version of the ostrich, and I challenge anyone to refute my analogy.

Re McCain

I'm sure that the photograph in the attached link will cause Mr. Don Williams to experience heartburn.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR2008031903259.html?sub=AR

You know, the pigeon is really the American version of the ostrich, and I challenge anyone to refute my analogy.

I think a pigeon is actually a sewing machine with beady eyes.


If McCain's description was OK, [why] did Holy Joe Lieberman step forward to correct him? - Woody Bombay

Holy Joe didn't earn his nickname for nothin' ... he can certainly be a sanctimonious ... ugg ... I shouldn't be engaging in Lashon HaRah so close to even a minor festival.

I really had no idea what Purim was or how it was celebrated until I read this post. All I knew was that it was a Jewish holiday.

You caught it well with the ha-ha/holy shit calibration. If Liberman constructed the cover (that he led McCain astray) then it was quick thinking on his part, but the truth is that he probably did.

First, it absolutely is NOT a mistake to compare Purim to Halloween (which also has more serious roots, by the way.) That's why the crowd there, unlike many of you here and Applebaum and Yglesias as well, made light of the matter. So give me a break about the "beloved, beautiful, holy day" stuff, will you? I've celebrated it many times. As a Jew, I do not appreciate fake outrage about non-existent insensitivty by McCain -- especially when one of the other candidates is so busy philosophizing away real disgraces such as his beloeved pastor's claims that Israel is a terrorist state.

Secondly, the other McCain mistake was even less of a mistake. Any of you who think Iran is NOT working with Al Qaeda in Iraq are victims of your own propaganda, plain and simple. The 9/11 Commission itself verified plenty of links between Iran and Al Qaeda. The left has glaumed on to superficial cliches about Sunnis and Shiite terrorist fanatics, ignoring overwhelming evidence of their ability to unite against the infidels whenever it suits either group's needs.

So here is what is the big deal. The left cannot conceive of a Republican president it can't demonize as either stupid or evil. In Bush's case, both gambits dominate. It won't work with McCain either way, but the media and many of you are fully engaged now in constructing this fairy tale by scratching the bottom of barrels like this remark. (And to imply this bears and relationship to the reverend Wright's lunatic rantings is even more laughable.) Meanwhile, McCain's polling numbers are going up. Perhaps it's because more Americans are concerned about one other little fact in the above report: the 900 rocket attacks on Israel in the past 3 months. I dare say, Israeli responses to McCain may have more to do with that than his simply repeating what Liebermann told him to say shorthand style about Purim and Halloween.

First, it absolutely is NOT a mistake to compare Purim to Halloween (which also has more serious roots, by the way.) That's why the crowd there, unlike many of you here and Applebaum and Yglesias as well, made light of the matter. So give me a break about the "beloved, beautiful, holy day" stuff, will you? I've celebrated it many times. As a Jew, I do not appreciate fake outrage about non-existent insensitivty by McCain -- especially when one of the other candidates is so busy philosophizing away real disgraces such as his beloeved pastor's claims that Israel is a terrorist state.

Secondly, the other McCain mistake was even less of a mistake. Any of you who think Iran is NOT working with Al Qaeda in Iraq are victims of your own propaganda, plain and simple. The 9/11 Commission itself verified plenty of links between Iran and Al Qaeda. The left has glaumed on to superficial cliches about Sunnis and Shiite terrorist fanatics, ignoring overwhelming evidence of their ability to unite against the infidels whenever it suits either group's needs.

So here is what is the big deal. The left cannot conceive of a Republican president it can't demonize as either stupid or evil. In Bush's case, both gambits dominate. It won't work with McCain either way, but the media and many of you are fully engaged now in constructing this fairy tale by scratching the bottom of barrels like this remark. (And to imply this bears and relationship to the reverend Wright's lunatic rantings is even more laughable.) Meanwhile, McCain's polling numbers are going up. Perhaps it's because more Americans are concerned about one other little fact in the above report: the 900 rocket attacks on Israel in the past 3 months. I dare say, Israeli responses to McCain may have more to do with that than his simply repeating what Liebermann told him to say shorthand style about Purim and Halloween.

First, it absolutely is NOT a mistake to compare Purim to Halloween (which also has more serious roots, by the way.) That's why the crowd there, unlike many of you here and Applebaum and Yglesias as well, made light of the matter. So give me a break will you all? I've celebrated it many times. As a Jew, I do not appreciate fake outrage about non-existent insensitivty by McCain -- especially when one of the other candidates is so busy philosophizing away real disgraces such as his beloeved pastor's claims that Israel is a terrorist state.

Secondly, the other McCain mistake was even less of a mistake. Any of you who think Iran is NOT working with Al Qaeda in Iraq are victims of your own propaganda, plain and simple. The 9/11 Commission itself verified plenty of links between Iran and Al Qaeda. The left has glaumed on to superficial cliches about Sunnis and Shiite terrorist fanatics, ignoring overwhelming evidence of their ability to unite against the infidels whenever it suits either group's needs.

So here is what is the big deal. The left cannot conceive of a Republican president it can't demonize as either stupid or evil. In Bush's case, both gambits dominate. It won't work with McCain either way, but the media and many of you are fully engaged now in constructing this fairy tale by scratching the bottom of barrels like this remark. (And to imply this bears and relationship to the reverend Wright's lunatic rantings is even more laughable.) Meanwhile, McCain's polling numbers are going up. Perhaps it's because more Americans are concerned about one other little fact in the above report: the 900 rocket attacks on Israel in the past 3 months. I dare say, Israeli responses to McCain may have more to do with that than his simply repeating what Liebermann told him to say shorthand style about Purim and Halloween.

Al is the American version of the stupid fucking hack troll.

Among secular Jews in Israel, Purim is very much like Halloween. It's a holiday with a religious origin that has lost its religious content and become a children's day for dressing up in costumes, going to parties, and eating sweet foods.

So, the correct response is that McCain has gone senile and is correcting himself when he doesn't need to?

He needs better handlers.

Jon Burack, you appear to be, much like Max Boot, confused about what constitutes a "link." Since there is no evidence that Iran has any operational relationship with AQ, and since AQ is in fact seeking to take down the Iranian-backed government in Iraq, your idea that they're linked boils down to the insane cowardly notion that all evil Muslamonazis are part of an organized conspiracy.

Notice I didn't put McCain in the "confused" category. McCain isn't confused, he merely shares Bush's view that we need to appease AQ by declaring war on AQ's enemies: Bush declared war on AQ's enemy Saddam, and wants to declare war on AQ's enemy Iran, and apparently this is all part of the belief that if we help Bin Laden by taking out his enemies, he'll love us.

I don't see the logic, myself, but know this, Jon: when you support McCain, you support McCain's pro-AQ views (since he wants us to ignore AQ and go after AQ's enemies instead).

Am I correct to understand that that there are no "operational ties" between Barack Obama and Hiliary Clinton ?


My rabbi called and said that every Jew in America is commenting on this post so, hey, I'd better jump on it too.

Here goes:

Indeed the tens of thousands of posters who proceeded me were spot-on and as far as cultural simplifications go the Purim/Halloween analogy is far from egregious. Rather common with American Jews.

(Mardi Gras, someone wrote! Mardi Gras! Yeah, as if! Imagine bringing beads to shul! Picture that! Talk about some scary stuff!)

Anyway, here's another analogy for you . . .

John McCain is becoming to Matt Yglesias what Hilary Clinton is to Andrew Sullivan.

Snap out of it, Matt! Nothing but insanity lies ahead!

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . hamantashen.

Actually McCain's confusion is bad. Purim is the prime Jewish holiday celebrating our escape from genocide.

McCain knows nothing about Iraq, Iran, Al Qaeda, or the US economy.

I think the connection between McCain and Purim revolves around both consisting of playing dress up. This just reinforces my sense that McCain's supporters consist of guys who like to pretend they're action figures.

McCain was in Israel not America talking to a bunch of Reform Jews.

I'm at work but if you want a detailed explanation why this wouldn't go down well in Israel, I'm reading Reckless Rites: Purim and the Legacy of Jewish Violence. and it's sort of heavy but has a large section on Purim and modern religious zionism.

You have to think that a religion with really amazing ceremonial food would be quite popular.

Sorry to drop a turd into the punchbowl, but....

...[Obama] is so busy philosophizing away real disgraces such as his beloeved pastor's claims that Israel is a terrorist state.

You don't have to be rabid to see that the occupation of the Palestinian 'territories' is a tragedy for everyone, especially the Palestinians, but also for Israel, ultimately. The distinction between terrorism and some other name for it is pretty academic. If you care about Israel, 'my country right or wrong' is not going to cut it anymore than it does in the US. If you love your country, you damned well want to know when something's wrong, unless you're a moron. Maybe the difference is that Israel is some people's *hobby* country rather than really their own. I would trade the Israeli press for our US one in a second, for example.

You have a right wing faction in Israel; a right wing faction in the US; and one in the Arab world. Are they all exactly the same? No. But are they fundamentally the same? (ie are all of the literalist, conservative, traditionalist forms of the three religions essentially the same?) [clears throat] All of you fuckers are seriously getting on the nerves of the relatively sane contingent of the race - a large majority, BTW. Everybody enjoys a good story, but this isn't fun anymore. All the proclimations from the 'religious' (cultural) freaks around here lately have given me the heebee jeebees.

For devout monotheists, especially Christians and Muslims, it always boils down to the same thing: sex sex sex sex sex. You want to destroy the world because of your twisted superstitions about sex, and about human nature itself. Who're the 'sickos' (as per 'Abdullah')? You are, my friends.

There is a Judgment Day coming, but it won't be like the Bible or Qur'an say it will. It will be the sane parts of the human race finally deciding that it's far too dangerous to tolerate your various versions of the same psychosis anymore. The best solution would be to ship you all off to the moon and let you rave, and fight, and kill each other up there. And the moon, since it's 'up' (bwa ha ha ha) it's closer to Heaven than is the earth, so you'll get an extra charge out of that. The moon also resembles the wretched part of this planet where your religions originated, so it'll be perfect. Desert wisdom is not the only wisdom, my friends. It is one, but not the only one. We could go ahead and map out a Christian Hemisphere and a Muslim Hemisphere right now, with a chunk of land in the middle for Orthodox Jews. Then you could get ready to Knock Yourselves Out, brothers and sisters.

Unlike the imaginary actions of your imaginary Angry Father God, this won't be done for revenge or jealousy. It will be done for the survival of the rest of us. I'm sorry I won't be around to see it.

There are SO many things to bust McCain on, but comparing Purim to Halloween isn't one of them, Matt!

Purim is a holiday with a lot of meaning and history (some of it PROFOUNDLY disturbing) but it is also unambiguously a holiday where kids dress up a la Halloween, we have parties, give out food, eat sweets.

When I was a kid, you pretty much always dressed up as someone in the Purim story (Mordechai, Esther, etc.) But today--and I think this is very much drawing on the custom in Israel--kids (and adults) dress up as just about everything. Just came back from shul with my kids. My daughter was a princess (call her Esther if you want) and my son was an absolutely adorable dinosaur. At their JCC preschool tomorrow, they'll be parading with their (jewish, christian, hindu, buddhist etc.) classmates in all manner of costumes.

Now Mr. National Security not being able to tell the Sunni and Shi'a apart? That's a COMPLETELY different story!

Not to assume anybody cares, but just to refine my anti-monotheism rant above: I find the Jewish part of that tradition to be the least scary of the three. If you're going to have an angry father sky god religion, it's humanly-intolerable if you can't *argue* with god now and then. And the Ten Comandments are something western people can agree on, basically. Very civilized. Islam is next, and Christianity is the most scary, because it's the most twisted, the most neurotic.

But politically speaking, they are all-three the same: sick and twisted. Sorry. I wish it weren't so.

Not to assume anybody cares, but just to refine my anti-monotheism rant above: I find the Jewish part of that tradition to be the least scary of the three. If you're going to have an angry father sky god religion, it's humanly-intolerable if you can't *argue* with god now and then. And the Ten Comandments are something western people can agree on, basically. Very civilized. Islam is next, and Christianity is the most scary, because it's the most twisted, the most neurotic.

But politically speaking, they are all-three the same: sick and twisted. Sorry. I wish it weren't so.

To "TB" and "jonnybutter."

Ah, to have such adversaries. Turds in punchbowls, angry sky gods, sex, sex, sex, sex, and a lack of "OPERATIONAL" evidence of Iran working with AQ. (That last is convincing, given how easy it is to get operational evidence of what totalitarians do in secret. Phew! and I thought there was something to worry about.)

And then, from jonnybutter: Israel,"occupying" lands from which 900 rockets descend on it in three months. I guess "terrorist state" means unable to save its own people from being terrorised.

Well, to be put in the same boat as "confused" Max Boot by such august and eloquent reasoners as these, I guess I can accept that compliment.

"Actually McCain's confusion is bad. Purim is the prime Jewish holiday celebrating our escape from genocide."

Yeah, but when you celebrate your escape from genocide by dressing up in costumes, acting a little crazy, and eating sweet cookies, there's quite a resemblance to Halloween. As a lapsed Anglican (if such a thing is possible) and a father of Jewish twin toddlers attending a temple preschool, I have to say a) I don't have a clue what the theological or historical origin of Halloween might be; b) my boys wore the same costumes (shark and octopus) to school yesterday as they wore for our neighborhood Halloween parade.

McCain's comment is perfectly justifiable. Let's save the ridicule for the subjects where he deserves it, viz knowing nothing about economics and having no foreign policy beyond mindless militarism.

As for the Iran/AQ connection, this has been debated over at Phil Carter's intel-dump blog in the past: some people who have served in Iraq claim that the Iranians are indeed supplying weapons and bomb materials (especially EFP - explosively formed projectile - components) to Sunni insurgents. It's not crazy to believe that Iran might be stirring things up - from their point of view anything that keeps US forces tied down in Iraq is a good thing.

And there was a weird incident a few months back where the US military claimed to be about to produce evidence of such Iranian involvement, and then they took it all back.

However, it's pretty clear from McCain's willingness to retract his comments that he isn't giving some sophisticated analysis based on new information, but is just shooting his mouth off at random, and really hardly knows or cares about the difference between Sunni and Shia - even though that's the root of the trouble in Iraq. McCain doesn't know what's going on or who's fighting whom, but he's sure we've got to keep fighting forever.

As for the odious Lieberman, how long is he going to trail around behind McCain listening to him talk complete crap before we can persuade him to retract his endorsement ? Dems need to put pressure on Lieberman in every way possible to get off the bus.

1.) "Sinned against" and "sinning" are not mutually exclusive categories. As a Zionist, Jew, and (I believe) a decent, rational, man, I believe that Israel has responded to threats to its existence* with very human responses ranging from exemplary to terrible.

2.) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it would appear on the surface that al-Qaeda and Iran were opposed to each other, proof that they're metaphorically in bed with each other would require at least two adult witnesses definitely seeing the consummation. It's true that it's not easy to prove what totalitarian régimes are doing (and ignoring that broad categorisation of a moderately tyrannical theocratic oligarchy and a bunch of fanatics), but taking that argument too far could lead you to asking us to prove that Iran and al-Qaeda aren't testing nuclear weapons on the other side of the Sun.

3.) The Abrahamic religions, and also Hindu, Buddhist, and Native American religions after their adherents have been conquered, are in fact screwed up enough about sex to turn it into "sex sex sex". Good luck with the plan of getting the religious to the Moon, though---probably better for the saner part of the populace to go, there or further. (Gene Roddenberry had it exactly wrong: the _Vulcans_ are the fanatical offshoot, the Romulans are the regular Joes, as evidenced by their Lieberman-like truculence.)

4.) Yet another reason to hate Soviet State Capitalism: it embedded its brutalist ideas in the heads of its victims. Max Boot is a shill for the rich, the powerful, and the militaristic; he doesn't understand that those he supports call him and our people names the moment he leaves the room. He is confused, confused enough to think he's a white man.


*"existential" threats" always make me think of Death by Galois overdose.

Here's the point to be made.

What the fuck is this asshole doing in Israel while on a US PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN?

I'll tell you - he's sucking up to get the AIPAC dollar in the US.

That's because according to the Haaretz poll, he was THIRD in line for those dollars after the (now defunct lunatic) Giuliani and Hillary Clinton!

This is the point to be made. A US presidential candidate has to go to some country with fewer people than New York in order to be made President.

It's fucking pathetic.

McCain's not looking for dollars: he's looking for an ethnic bloc. The Republicans are where they are today because first they detached Southern whites from the Democratic Party once it suffered a near-fatal attack of conscience, and then they detached almot-white Catholics using a combination of anti-abortion rhetoric and fear of black people.

They'd love to detach us (white if you squint hard) Jews; I saw a bin of "McCain" buttons spelt out in Hebrew letters in a local Hebraica store. It's been a point of frustration for them that we've done very well in America, but unlike some other groups I might perniciously over-generalise about (and just have super), we mostly still understand that it's possible for us to be poor or to have our sons and daughters lives wasted for stupid imperial ventures, and voted and donated accordingly---the old cliché was "Those people live like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans."

Maybe some of us will fall for it this time.


Comments closed April 03, 2008.

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