Murray on the Speech

Charles Murray steps in as the voice of reason:

I read the various posts here on "The Corner," mostly pretty ho-hum or critical about Obama's speech. Then I figured I'd better read the text (I tried to find a video of it, but couldn't). I've just finished. Has any other major American politician ever made a speech on race that comes even close to this one? As far as I'm concerned, it is just plain flat out brilliant—rhetorically, but also in capturing a lot of nuance about race in America. It is so far above the standard we're used to from our pols.... But you know me. Starry-eyed Obama groupie.

Exactly.

Comments

Well, an honest response from the Corner. Huh. Credit where credit is due.

Posted by Francisco the Man | March 18, 2008 2:41 PM

There's a rave I hadn't expected, although if I said something about race that Charles Murray liked, my first reaction would be to wonder where the hell I went wrong.

Posted by ChuckE | March 18, 2008 2:42 PM

And for those who don't follow all the inside politics stuff, Charles Murray is the author of the Bell Curve, a book which suggests that certain racial phenotypes might have on average a genetically slightly lower IQ than others.

Posted by Sebastian Holsclaw | March 18, 2008 2:42 PM

This is challenging my heretofore unassailable Charles Murray heuristic--anytime he talks about race, the opposite of what he says must be be true.

Posted by Goldberg | March 18, 2008 2:43 PM

i think we have andrew's yglesias award nominee

Posted by nattyb | March 18, 2008 2:52 PM

Nice words, but a cynical fellow might think that Mr. Murray was having trouble sleeping or saw an opportunity to cover his ass (retroactively or in advance of some future nonsense). Or perhaps he just wanted to publicly praise the nice, well spoken Mr. Obama.

Posted by eda | March 18, 2008 2:52 PM

It was a Coopers Union speech, but the question is, is this a Coopers Union moment?

Posted by serial catowner | March 18, 2008 2:53 PM

No one has come close to making a speech like this in decades, perhaps never. It is the most candid speech given about this issue and forces all of us to confront a reality that we don't like to admit exists.

This speech again shows's Obama's transparency and willingness to go places other politicians are too scared to travel. He will garner a great deal of support from the electorate with this speech. The nomination which was pretty much his before the speech is now most certainly his and the general election is not too far behind. Can McCain ever match this with a speech about religion?

Posted by philly dog | March 18, 2008 2:56 PM

Well, I'll have to admit I've never had a great deal of respect for any of Charles Murray's opinions.

...But since Matt and all the other commenters on this blog are such huge fans of his, what do I know?

Posted by RKU | March 18, 2008 2:58 PM

Not so surprising. Murray thinks race is very important -- he's built most of his career on talking about it.

Obviously, this is an important point on which Murray is right -- race is important in America.

And it puts him in conflict with the major strain of right-wing rhetoric that says that race is now a complete non-issue in this country and the only people who talk about it are guilty white liberals and the hucksters who prey on them.

Posted by lemuel pitkin | March 18, 2008 3:00 PM

The speech also represents an argument for mandatory long-form television coverage of candidate speeches and statements, uninterrupted by commercials and "analysis" by shouting midgets.

Posted by Jim M | March 18, 2008 3:01 PM

Charles Murray is a serious guy, unlike the rest of the buffoons over there. (Derbyshire is also highly intelligent, but is several sigmas below the mean in empathy.)

Posted by Pithlord | March 18, 2008 3:01 PM

The speech also represents an argument for mandatory long-form television coverage of candidate speeches and statements, uninterrupted by commercials and "analysis" by shouting midgets.

Posted by Jim M | March 18, 2008 3:03 PM

Not so surprising. Murray thinks race is very important -- he's built most of his career on talking about it.

Obviously, this is an importnat point on which Murray is right -- race is important in America.

And it puts him in conflict with the major strain of right-wing rhetoric that says that race is now a complete non-issue in this country and the only people who talk about it are guilty white liberals and the hucksters who prey on them.

Posted by lemuel pitkin | March 18, 2008 3:07 PM

Expect him to be duly smothered. But it's good to see some honest reaction.

I'm surprised the reactions to his discussion of the things Blacks must do are not more positive among conservative circles. He basically treads a "reject victimhood" line, while maintaining liberal cred as well.

Magnificently done.

Posted by Tungsten | March 18, 2008 3:09 PM

Pithlord -- Derbyshire is a bigot. Say it straight. An old-fashioned English bigot -- pleasant, humourous, and rotten to the core.

Posted by Ikram | March 18, 2008 3:16 PM

I like Hillary Clinton, she a good hard working politician. But she is Salieri and Obama is Mozart. The chatterers ascribe his appeal to technique. He gives a good speech. Like its theatrics. Hell, Reagan gave good speeches. Obama makes good speeches. The hard thing to teach in writing is thinking. Obama thinks good.

Posted by Footloose | March 18, 2008 3:20 PM

I like Hillary Clinton, she is a good hard working politician. But she is Salieri and Obama is Mozart. The chatterers ascribe his appeal to technique. He gives a good speech. Like its theatrics. Hell, Reagan gave good speeches. Obama makes good speeches. The hard thing to teach in writing is thinking. Obama thinks good.

Posted by Footloose | March 18, 2008 3:20 PM

Whats more funny -- Derbyshire had just put up a response to Murray in the corner. Very nasty, but typical Derbyshire.

It's now been taken down. Like other Derbyshire posts, his invective goes too far even for them. The Cornerites are very confused.

Posted by Ikram | March 18, 2008 3:23 PM

That Charles Murray. So articulate. A credit to his race.

Posted by Ryan | March 18, 2008 3:37 PM

Charles Murray is the author of the Bell Curve, a book which suggests that certain racial phenotypes might have on average a genetically slightly lower IQ than others.

A phenotype is the expression, in a given environment, of a particular gene or set of genes. A "racial phenotype" doesn't have an IQ any more than the color orange does.

Posted by lemuel pitkin | March 18, 2008 3:41 PM

Wow we needed this door opened...yet more doors need to be opened...I believe he can open those which we, due to political correcteness or unwillingness to open wounds, shy away from. We need to come together and not be divisive. The issues and problems are all our own, as americans we need to tackle them as we have every other obsticle in our history, together and with conviction and fact. Please visit http://www.project.org to see the progression of these issues.

Posted by De Marco | March 18, 2008 3:41 PM

This speech cannot be judged by just on rehtorical merit, or content, however poetic or nuanced or inspirational. It has to be judged also by its effectiveness in the politcal arena. It has to be smart politically.

Today that arena includes people who believe that the “truth is not hard to kill, and that a lie well told is immortal.” (Twain)

Was the speech poltically smart given the "swiftboatian" inclinations of the opposition?

To me, the speech gives too many opportunities for easily creating and disseminating distortions and lies. He will be “swiftboated” ad infinitum.

Posted by Lynn | March 18, 2008 3:47 PM

what does that make us??? ignorant fools who take what those who 'swiftboat' candidates say as truth! We need to be smarter than that and know the status of issues that affect our lives.

http://www.project.org

To what Obama is referring, race and the issues, I applaude him and i hope it will lead to more constructive dialouge. 'A more perfect Union'

Posted by De Marco | March 18, 2008 3:54 PM

On The Bell Curve:

Phenotype is the result of the interaction between genotype and the environment. Does anyone doubt that there a differences between certain groups on standardized tests like IQ? I don't know so. Does that mean certain groups are inherently inferior? Absolutely not. Environment plays such a huge role that it can never be discounted.

I think Obama missed an opportunity in this speech to be more than simply an apologist for unacceptable views, but to "tell truth to power" in the black community about why some of those views are not just unacceptable to him, but why they should also be unacceptable within the black community.

To draw an equivalence between the views of proponents of welfare reform and opponents of affirmative action, and those of Jeremiah Wright is insulting.

I agree with other commentators who wish this speech borrowed more from Bill Cosby, and rationalized the views of Jeremiah Wright less.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 3:57 PM

Maybe it's just the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Posted by Elvis Elvisberg | March 18, 2008 4:07 PM

Barack Obama proved today that he is an enabler of anti-White racism in the black community.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 4:26 PM

Shorter Tim K: no one paid attention to me the first time, so I'll try to be even more obnoxious in the hopes of getting a reply.

Posted by Tyro | March 18, 2008 4:28 PM

Tim K,

Maybe Cosby and Wright aren't quite as far apart as you imagine? It is possible to believe both that America has not yet solved its historic racial problems and that blacks need to develop bourgeois virtues and take more personal responsibility. I suspect Jeremiah Wright's done more on the latter score than most people.

Anyway, I thought there was a fair bit of Cosbyism in Obama's speech. And the way he legitimized some of the white ethnic reaction to busing and rising crime rates was telling.

I can't really imagine your favourite candidate taking these kinds of risks.

Posted by Pithlord | March 18, 2008 4:31 PM

This reminds me of Snitchens and Posner--whom I loathe--singing the praises of Orwell, whom I more or less revere.

This speech and the speaker are so brilliant that they will survive having admirers like Murray.

Posted by Gee | March 18, 2008 4:31 PM

Shorter Tyro: I like enabling anti-White racism, too.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 4:32 PM

And Tim K goes from a vaguely racist Hillary Supporter to a blatantly racist one.

Yipee!

Posted by Soullite | March 18, 2008 4:32 PM

Racism on this blog has been defined down to being critical of the views of any person of color.

Sorry if what I say "may appear jarring to the untrained ear."

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 4:35 PM

Only colorful sweaters and pudding pops can sate my neurotic need for attention.

Posted by Timmuh K. | March 18, 2008 4:36 PM

Tim K.

I agree with other commentators who wish this speech borrowed more from Bill Cosby, and rationalized the views of Jeremiah Wright less.

I don't think he rationalized Wright at all. He's betting that American voters will chose the new, honest politics over the politics of Hillary and McCain. He's going for the glory. He nailed the politics of resentment played by the rightwing.

Murray probably liked the bit about welfare.

I just love it. Obama is being treated compeletely unfairly by the media and he's reacting cooly and calmly and knocks the ball out of the ball park. And the Clinton campaign has the gall to ask ad nauseum if he is "vetted." He has guts.

Posted by Peter K. | March 18, 2008 4:41 PM

Interesting plug by Murray. To give him his due, his recent proposal to redistribute wealth (and provide universal health care to boot) was certainly out of the box. You don't expect right-wingers to come out with guaranteed income schemes.
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008142

Posted by beowulf | March 18, 2008 4:43 PM

Peter:

I don't think anyone ever questioned whether liberals would love the speech, but liberals shouldn't have been the target audience.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 4:48 PM

If you're going to throw your grandmother and your pastor under the bus, can't you admit at least a failing or two of your own? Admission of chinks and flaws in Obama's self-congratulatory narrative of his "always superior" judgment?

I guess when you're the one you've been waiting for, failings don't exist.

Posted by chris ford | March 18, 2008 4:59 PM

Am I the only one who found what he said about his grandmother unseemly? If every white person who becomes uncomfortable passing a hoodlum (who happens to be black) on the street at night is a racist, then there are sure a lot of racists out there.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 5:03 PM

Am I the only one who found what he said about his grandmother unseemly?

No, Tim, the other people that hate Obama feel the same way, especially most of the people at the Corner.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 18, 2008 5:09 PM

SoCal:

HATE Obama? Do I hate everyone I don't want to see elected to some office? If you, and Obama supporters, cannot see the basis for others' criticism of your candidate, and see racism and irrational hatred, then there is simply no way you will have any perspective on the state of this contest.

You're not going to be able to interpret events clearly in a liberal echo-chamber of self-congratulation.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 5:13 PM

HATE Obama? Do I hate everyone I don't want to see elected to some office?

I don't know, Tim.

I know this, though. You've spent an amazing amount of time and energy trying to fight reality, including being incredibly disingenuous, inventing out of whole cloth material to knock Obama and bolster Hillary, even when the facts are the opposite. That has nothing to do with mere "criticism" of Obama.

Normally that amount of effort, such that it is, is not spent attacking someone one likes.

I have never accused you of being racist, and I don't care if you are.

You clearly hate him, though. That is clear. I don't know why, and I don't care.

I love how you think the backer (yourself) of someone losing "this contest" is the one who has teh perspective, and those backing the winner are the ones that don't have "any."

That is just awesome analysis, Tim.

Too funny.

I'm not a fan of this term, really, but the "concern troll" moniker, such that it fits, was invented for someone like you.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 18, 2008 5:22 PM

Tim,

If you don't hate Obama, I hope you're getting paid for your time by someone that does.

Otherwise, your "contribution" do the discussion and the campaign has been nothing more than that of a thread hijacker.

I guess there are worse ways to spend your time.

Keeps you off the streets and away from "a hoodlum (who happens to be black)."

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 18, 2008 5:38 PM

"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Sorry, I'm not sure how anyone could hear that and think he's throwing her 'under the bus.'

Here's what Tim K said: "If every white person who becomes uncomfortable passing a hoodlum (who happens to be black) on the street at night is a racist, then there are sure a lot of racists out there."

Wow, Tim, that's not even close to what he said. He never called his grandmother a racist, either. You are intellectually dishonest. And an asshole.

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 5:41 PM

"...then there are sure a lot of racists out there."

Yes, sir, there certainly are.

"You're not going to be able to interpret events clearly in a liberal echo-chamber of self-congratulation."

What a humanitarian! Save us from ourselves, thou wisest and smartest of all Canadians! OH CAN A DA, something, something, maple leaves, lead us to thine gloriest and righteousnessness in all matters racial, something, something, we stand on guard for thee...

(My apologies to the fine people of Canada and their lovely anthem. Also, my deepest sympathies for having Tim K., and no, we don't want him)

Posted by Rihilism | March 18, 2008 5:41 PM

I will give Canada credit where credit's due. "Oh, Canada" kicks the "Star Spangled Banner's" ass.

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 5:44 PM

SoCal:

What contribution are you making to any discussion besides echoing Obama For America talking points and being a pro-Obama sycophant?

Sandy:

Calling people names because you don't share their point of view isn't "the politics of hope" or "change we can believe in."

Obama supporters practice the politics of personal destruction by casting aspersions and racial accusations at critiques of Barack Obama, distort their words and dismiss their views.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 5:46 PM

Rihilism:

Way to raise the level of political discourse.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 5:49 PM

Tim,
I didn't call you an asshole because I disagree with you. I called you an asshole because you were intentionally misleading. Why don't you respond to the bulk of the post instead of hopping back on your pedestal. Asshole, I didn't distort any of your views. I posted part of the speech. Then, I posted exactly what you said. Cute try, though!

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 5:50 PM

Is Tim K losing it the more stunning Obama becomes?

Hillary Clinton's only hope was the Obama would implode badly sometime between now and June. Not only did he not implode, but his campaign took a historic turn. That very moment is what seems to have driven Tim K even crazier than normal.

Posted by Tyro | March 18, 2008 5:52 PM

Sandy:

A woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street

First, some people find throwing your grandmother to the wolves to save your own political ass offensive. And it is offensive. Second, there is no equivalence between hearing his grandmother quietly express that (perhaps irrational) fear privately, and Jeremiah Wright's very public racist and divisive diatribe. Third, a lot of people would identify with how his grandmother feels in those situations - sometimes with good reason, and sometimes not. But it's there.

I'm not going to return your vulgarity by name-calling back.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 5:57 PM

What contribution are you making to any discussion besides echoing Obama For America talking points and being a pro-Obama sycophant?

I wonder if voicing concern about Matt's analysis of the Wright sermons (that Matt's relationship to unknown, nameless rabbis at his various synagogues was analogous) was echoing anything.

Oh yeah - you never know what you're talking about, and just make stuff up - that's right.

And pointing that out to people - especially newcomers here who have yet to see your schtick - that's a positive contribution to this website - and would be to anywhere you post.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 18, 2008 5:58 PM

SoCal:

Matthew Yglesias is not Barack Obama. I've never read you be critical of him.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 6:00 PM

Tim,
Of course you're not. How could you? I didn't say anything intentionally misleading.

Let's see, here's Obama's quote- "A woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed her on the street." How that could be interpreted as "throwing your grandmother to the wolves" is beyond me. What wolves was she thrown to?

Now here's what you said- "If every white person who becomes uncomfortable passing a hoodlum (who happens to be black) on the street at night is a racist, then there are sure a lot of racists out there." Night? Hoodlum? Hmmmm. You are a intentionally deceiving. And an asshole.

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 6:01 PM

Tim K, your opinion on this particularly issue doesn't matter. To whit:

... in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

After Obama not just weathers this storm but smacks it down, you will go in search of another distraction. And then another. And then another. And slowly, slowly, slowly, you will become even more crazy and even more angry, and even more disconnected from the important political issues in this race.

Posted by Tyro | March 18, 2008 6:02 PM

"Oh, Canada" kicks the "Star Spangled Banner's" ass.

Boo! The fact that The Star Spangled Banner" is difficult to sing is a feature,/i> not a bug.

Posted by Adam Villani | March 18, 2008 6:02 PM

anybody notice how he referred to Wright in the very beginning as "my former pastor"? Was he Obama's "former" pastor until that moment?

By the way, great goddamn speech.

Posted by too many steves | March 18, 2008 6:04 PM

Matthew Yglesias is not Barack Obama.

Wow, finally something truthful out of you.

I've never read you be critical of him.

Try placing my statement about the two of them in context, then - you know - thinking about it.

I'll help you since you seem unable to process rational thought.

Matt's relationship with his clergy - not problematic.

Obama's relationship with his - problematic, certainly more than MY perceives it to be.

Also, Obama is an awful ski jumper. Happy?

What a waste.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 18, 2008 6:04 PM

In fact, the speech was so good that reading it, the usual lame-ass cliches that I usually skim over in political speech stick out like sore thumbs. Like the phrase "working-class" or the use of "a politics," as in, "we want a politics of this and that, not a politics of this other thing."

Posted by too many steves | March 18, 2008 6:07 PM

Tyro:

Barack Obama isn't going to win this election. I mean the general election, he'll probably end up being nominated though.

Sandy:

What do you think the context of his grandmother's comments were likely to have been? Do you think she meant that if she saw Morgan Freeman, Sydney Poitier or Colin Powell on the street she would fear for her safety? That's silly. I think everyone knows what the context for feeling that way would be. And if you can't understand that ask Bill Cosby, he could explain it to you.

Posted by Tim K | March 18, 2008 6:09 PM

anybody notice how he referred to Wright in the very beginning as "my former pastor"? Was he Obama's "former" pastor until that moment?

I believe Wright recently retired. That probably explains the "former".

Posted by Ryan | March 18, 2008 6:12 PM

Adam,
Fair enough, but I wasn't really talking about the difficulty in singing them. I'm sure I can't sing either very well. I just think "Oh, Canada" is a vastly superior song. I feel confident that if we were to give people unfamiliar with the two songs a chance to listen to instrumental versions, they would agree. Who knows, maybe not. Oh, well.

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 6:13 PM

Tim,
You know exactly the point I was getting at. You were trying to suggest that his grandma was holding very rational fears that a lot of women (or men) would have. That being the act of walking by a hoodlum at night. That is not what Obama said his grandma feared. And you know it. You also know exactly what you were trying to do by mixing up the quote.

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 6:19 PM

"Do you think she meant that if she saw Morgan Freeman, Sydney Poitier or Colin Powell on the street she would fear for her safety?"

So, do I think she would fear black celebrities? Uh, no. But she might fear them if she didn't know who they were. See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You are dishonest. "Hey, I get nervous sometimes when I'm passing a hoodlum on the street at night. And that hoodlum might happen to be black. Does that mean that Obama thinks I'm a racist?!? Because I'm not!! Obama doesn't know me!"

You're an asshole.

Posted by Sandy | March 18, 2008 6:23 PM

"Way to raise the level of political discourse."

Oh, come on, now, that was hysterical and in no way lowers da discourse. Just like when you said "Does anyone doubt that there a differences between certain groups on standardized tests like IQ?". I laughed my ass off! Oooohhhh, I said to myself, I see where he's going with this. Comedy gold!

Oops, I mean,

Yes ye all mighty knowledge-meister of the north. Please teach us the ways 'o the race and let us partake in your maple syrup-flavored goodness and frosty wholesomeness. Teach us, oh lord of the permafrost, how not to hate!

Posted by Rihilism | March 18, 2008 6:47 PM

Re: First, some people find throwing your grandmother to the wolves to save your own political ass offensive.

Why is it so hard to believe that women of a certain age may once have harbored racial prejudices? After all white women were told from slavery days down to the near present that Black men were lusting after them and were a constant threat to them. I can't believe you so dense you're not aware that there was once a lot of very open racism among white people. My grandmother for example was horrified at the thought of interracial marriage. Are you going to start slamming me for admitting that fact? My grandmother was not shy about saying what she believed, it was nothing she kept secret. Why should I be shy about relating it now?

Posted by JonF | March 18, 2008 7:07 PM

Stating that his grandmother born in 1922 might occasionally use terms that make him cringe is not "throwing your grandmother to the wolves".

I'll bet there are at least 2 or 3 other people on the planet who have expressed the notion that an older relative might occasionally say something cringe worthy. In fact, it's rather a regular sit-com plot point.

Posted by El Cid | March 18, 2008 7:43 PM

why do you guys/girls respond to TimK, is it because he is the lone voice and thus merit recognition in the fear that he maybe right?
TimK post on differnt political bloggs TPM and others he uses the same argument and words, it is as if he was reading from an attack line from (monster. Inc HQ) so in the future TimK is the lone voice of doubt in your mind that ask you on your way to work in the middle of the road: did you close the window?, did you turn off the gas?

Posted by akhinaten | March 18, 2008 7:49 PM

"First, some people find throwing your grandmother to the wolves to save your own political ass offensive. And it is offensive. Second, there is no equivalence between hearing his grandmother quietly express that (perhaps irrational) fear privately, and Jeremiah Wright's very public racist and divisive diatribe. Third, a lot of people would identify with how his grandmother feels in those situations - sometimes with good reason, and sometimes not. But it's there."

This is completely disingenuous.

First of all, Obama was not "throwing his grandmother to the wolves". The point of the speech is clearly that someone he loves very much once said something extremely offensive and hurtful - something which would kill any politician's career if they said it in public - and it doesn't outweigh the years of care and love he received from her. His point was that this is true both of his grandmother and Rev. Wright, the one and only difference being that Wright said what he did in public and was caught on tape.

Second, the fact that "a lot of people would identify with how his grandmother feels in those situations - sometimes with good reason, and sometimes not" is irrelevant, since it is also true of everything Jeremiah Wright said. Lots of blacks are extremely suspicious of the federal government and very willing to believe the worst of it. So are many whites. The fact that many people can identify with what he said doesn't diminish how hurtful it sounded to people who don't, or his responsibility as a speaker to find a better way to say what he was getting at. This is also true of his grandmother.

Posted by Splitting image | March 18, 2008 8:55 PM

Funny, Tim K's talking points sounds just like Republican wanker Rich Lowry
The Throw Your Grandmother Under the Bus Speech' That's what a friend of mine calls it. She only raised him—to get compared to a raving anti-American pastor in his hour of political need

Posted by bjd | March 18, 2008 8:58 PM

Unfortunately, akhinaten, ignoring them doesn't make them go away. By all means, engaging or attempting to reason with such an obvious fraud is a bad idea. Mocking them or trying to shame those that still experience some semblance of human emotion at least passes the time...

Posted by Rihilism | March 18, 2008 9:19 PM

It is incredible how brilliant that speech was. I never believed a politician would be capable of delivering such an address.

Posted by Nick | March 18, 2008 9:50 PM

There is something affecting about Charles Murray--Charles Murray!--warming to Obama.

One of the reasons I began to think that Obama had a good shot was that his speeches appealed to my staunchly Republican parents. It was always grudging, "He's a total socialist, but he gives a better talk than any of the rest of them." But I got the sense that they couldn't really get exercised about opposing someone so evidently thoughtful and intelligent. If that sentiment has found its way into people who actually earn their bread promoting racism and/or right wing politics, this thing will be easier than I thought.

Posted by southpaw | March 18, 2008 10:55 PM

It's worth looking at what Obama actually wrote 13 years ago about this incident involving his grandmother, who is still very much alive.

The story, on pp. 88-89 of Dreams is that Obama's white grandmother, who was raising him and earning most of the money in the family while his own mother was off in Indonesia working on her 1067 page dissertation on peasant blacksmithing, rode the bus each morning to her job as a banking company executive. One day, the 16-18 year old Obama wakes up to an argument between his grandmother and grandfather. She didn't want to ride the bus anymore because she was hassled by a bum at the bus stop:

"Her lips pursed with irritation. 'He was very aggressive, Barry. Very aggressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn't come, I think he might have hit me over the head."

Obama's lefty white grandfather doesn't want to give his wife a ride because she was being prejudiced:

"He turned around and I saw that he was shaking. "It is a big deal. It's a big deal to me. She's been bothered by men before. You know why she's so scared this time. I'll tell you why. Before you came in, she told me the fella was black." He whispered the word. "That's the real reason why she's bothered. And I just don't think that right.

"The words were like a fist in my stomach, and I wobbled to regain my composure. In my steadiest voice, I told him that such an attitude bothered me, too, but reassured him that Toot's fears would pass and that we should give her a ride in the meantinme. Gramps slumped into a chair in the living room and said he was sorry he had told me. Before my eyes, he grew small and old and very sad. I put my hand on his shoulder and told him that it was all right, I understood.

"We remained like that for several minutes like that for several minutes, in painful silence. Finally he insisted that he drive Toot after all, and I thought about my grandparents. They had sacrificed again and again for me. They had poured all their lingering hopes into my success. Never had they given me reason to doubt their love; I doubted if they ever would. And yet I knew that men who might easily have been my brothers would still inspire their rawest fear."

Then Obama drives over to his grandfather's friend Frank's house, an old black CPUSA member, for counseling, who tells him:

"What I'm trying to tell you is, your grandma's right to be scared. She's at least as right as Stanley is. She understands that black people have a reason to hate. That's just how it is. For your sake, I wish it were otherwise. But it's not. So you might as well get used to it."

"Frank closed his eyes. His breathing slowed until he seemed to be asleep. I thought about waking him, then decided against it and walked back to the car. The earth shook under my feet, ready to crack open at any moment. I stopped, trying to steady myself, and knew for the first time that I was utterly alone."

Man, what a family full of drama queens! And now Obama is equating his own grandma, who was the main breadwinner in his dysfunctional family circus, and who is still alive, with Rev. Dr. God Damn America.

Classy.

So, in summary, let's look at how Obama smeared his own elderly but very much alive grandmother, calling her:

"a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Well, no, according to Obama's 1995 book, it is not at all true that she "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street." Instead, she once confessed her fear of one aggressive panhandler who didn't pass by her but confronted her, demanded money, and then gave her -- an intelligent, level-headed woman who had worked her way up to mid-level corporate management position -- good reason to believe he would have violently mugged her if her bus hadn't pulled up.

If this was some doofus politician like Bush or Biden who retold the story in a misleading fashion, you might see that as just their usual struggle with using the English language to get across what they really mean. But Obama is so superb with words, that it's perfectly reasonable to hold him accountable for choosing to slander his own living grandmother for his political advantage.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama-throws-his-own-living-grannie.html

Posted by Steve Sailer | March 18, 2008 11:26 PM

What evidence is there that the universe of cringe-worthy comments to which Obama might refer is limited to Obama's published works?

I have relatives who have made racial and ethnic comments which have made me cringe, yet they appear not to be confined to any book which I have not yet published. Do they exist? Have they happened?

More importantly, have I just thrown those relatives under the bus to the wolves who live under the bus?

Posted by El Cid | March 18, 2008 11:35 PM

Although it's getting late, it's not too late to acknowledge the brilliance of today's speech by sending a contribution to Obama's campaign. You know how to do it!

Posted by THS | March 19, 2008 12:00 AM

Great,

Stevie Sailor is over here trolling.

Posted by Shine | March 19, 2008 12:06 AM

More depth on the background to this at AR:

http://acropolisreview.com/2008/03/barack-obama-condemns-reverend-jeremiah.html

Posted by Tina | March 19, 2008 12:15 AM

Steve is also not considering that the person who related to Obama the notion that Toots held an irrational fear of strange black men was Stanley Dunham, her own husband. Why would a husband believe that about his wife, and be temporarily angered about it? Maybe because she did confess to him about such feelings in private moments, and her husband in a bout of anger blurted out an ugly and unflattering fact about his wife in front of their grandson. (Obama's grandparents are not unique in this regard; many grandparents have done this at least once, since grandparents aren't perfect people.)

Therefore, the passage that Steve quotes does not necessarily contradict what Obama said. Obama did not say that his grandmother told him personally about her fear of strange black men who passed her by in the street; he just said that she confessed such a fear. She probably confessed to Stanley, her husband, and she might have even confided it to her daughter, Anne, who became Barack's mother. (Who knows, maybe this fear in her mother caused Anne to be attracted so much to non-white men in the 1st place.) She might have even confessed to good old Commie Frank, the Black family friend. The point is, the passage confirms that Obama's grandmother had irrational fears of Black men, at least from her husband's point of view.

(A more valid criticism for Steve to make would be that Barack shouldn't necessarily assume that his grandfather's diagnosis of his grandmother's state of mind is correct. However, the essential point of Barack's comparison remains; you don't judge a loved one or a mentor on the basis of one thing. The decent and human thing to do is to judge a person on the totality of what they say and do.)

Posted by eltoro | March 19, 2008 12:18 AM

Eltoro,

Even if what you hypothesize is true, that although Obama never mentioned it in his autobiography, the woman who helped raise him once called a black person a bad word, does that really make her the moral equivalent of a preacher who has spewed racial divisiveness for decades? Because that's essentially how Obama used her in his speech.

It seems a stretch though to say now that his grandmother was some sort of Archie Bunker figure. His grandparents were lefties who came from Kansas; people who grow up in areas with virtually no blacks tend not to be racist. If they were racists, would they have agreed to raise their daughter's half black son so she could jaunt off to Indonesia to research her thesis? A white woman marrying a black man in the 1960s wasn't the sort of thing that racist whites were cool with back then, particularly when the white woman was their daughter.

If Obama's grandmother was just expressing her fear of an aggressive bum who happened to be black, it also seems a stretch to consider that racism.

In any case, it was well-written and well-given speech, which has clearly had the desired effect on Obama worshipers. What effect it has had on blue collar whites we'll know after the PA primary.

Posted by Fred | March 19, 2008 12:59 AM

In the middle of the day I received an email from my sister-in-law from her blackberry saying:

"Wow talk about throwing a little old senior citizen to the wolves, sure his gramma is so glad to be hung out to dry, funny though how he failed to mention that you can't choose your grandmother......."

Interesting that she had the same reaction as me, if though she is half-black.

Is she a racist too?

Posted by Tim K | March 19, 2008 2:06 AM

even though she is half-black, I meant to type.

Posted by Tim K | March 19, 2008 2:10 AM

Tim K: Am I the only one who found what he said about his grandmother unseemly?

No, chris ford, Fred, and Steve Sailer also did. So I guess that proves you're not a racist or a right-wing troll.

Posted by fp | March 19, 2008 2:43 AM

Please Please stop it with this 'Obama threw his grandmother under the bus' line. It is really seedy. Really breathtaking bad conscience behind it. Obama takes an example from his life to try to convey the complexity of love and loyalty but for the roving mob, it becomes another piece of human flesh to gnaw on. The problem is that all the signs were there for a ritual sacrifice of Wright. The mob was salivating. Pushing Obama to the altar to do the deed on Wright. It must be done or the harvest won't come, but it's funny. Obama turns out to be a Christian in the deep sense, and he won't carry out this pagan ritual, so now there is only bloodthirsty, frustrated thrashing around for a new victim. It must be Obama himself for not properly doing the deed. Obama ruined the ritual by substituting his own granny for Wright, when every sane person knows that his mention of her was a gift of love to her and everyone listening about forgiveness and family. It really stinks of moral rot to pursue this line of attack on Obama.

Posted by wetzel | March 19, 2008 2:52 AM

Posting late US-time, but...

All this talk about how Obama supposedly "threw his Grandma under the bus" based on a single sentence, but even after much stronger condemnations from Obama of Jeremiah Wright's statements, including in the same speech, he's still copping flak for "refusing to disown" Rev Wright?

Why is the white grandmother considered condemned by Obama but the black preacher is not?

Posted by Neil H | March 19, 2008 3:05 AM

Yeah, you're right, why bother even having a presidential election? Obama is a Saint. A god even. He should be declared President For Life.

Posted by Tim K | March 19, 2008 3:07 AM

Neil:

Obviously because America is a country controlled by Rich White People who hate black people so much they invented HIV to destroy them.

Posted by Tim K | March 19, 2008 3:59 AM

I see.

So I'm not actually going to get a genuine answer to a genuine question?

I just think that if you're going to say that Obama "threw his grandmother under the bus" for that one sentence, it would be helpful to know whether or not you think that Reverend Wright has also been "thrown under the bus" at this stage. After all, Wright's controversial statements have been condemned by Obama at much greater length than some of the unfortunately old-fashioned views that dear ol' grandma's holds, God bless her. Is that enough for people to admit Obama's adequately addressed this issue now? If not, why not?

Personally I don't think anyone's been "thrown under a bus" at all. Obama's taking a very risky gamble that the American population can understand that all individuals hold a mixture of good and bad ideas, and that you can appreciate an individual and their good ideas at the same time as you disagree with and reject their bad ideas. I wish him luck with that, because he's sure as hell going to need it.

Posted by Neil H | March 19, 2008 4:43 AM

Yesterday all the race trolls were cackling that Obama was done. Stick a fork in him! He was doomed! DOOMED!

Now they're back to being outraged and offended. Hilarious. Will they ever go away?

Posted by Barbar | March 19, 2008 6:30 AM

Rightwingers like Fred, TimK and the corner gang are mightily POed that Obama effectively turned back their attempt to Swiftboat him over this Rev Wright crap. They need to face reality: Obama hit a triple, if not a home run, with this speech, and his detractors are going to have to go back to debating him on the issues not smearing him with someone else's racism which he has firmly and unequivocably disavowed, while showing graet insight (and common sense) about America's tortured racial past-- and present. I say this as soemone who is not one of his biggest fans by the way.

Posted by JonF | March 19, 2008 6:32 AM

Oh, that's rich, the grand poobah of the Log Cabin Republicans says:

"Man, what a family full of drama queens!"

Been watching too much Sex in the City, Steve?

I'm sure you and Fred will require an extra long trip to the day spa to recover from the damage that Obama's vicious truth telling has inflicted to your delicate psyches.

Neil H, as I said earlier, I think arguing or trying to rationalize with them is a pointless exercise. They have agendas and honesty or reasoned debate is not part of those agendas.

Oh, look, Tim K. (aka, Canada's answer to questions no one asks) is back. So, who you voting for this fall, Tim?

Posted by Rihilism | March 19, 2008 7:17 AM

It was a superb speech, but my fear is that there are some whites who are so put off by the issue of black militancy that they will abandon him. Even if it is just a few % of the electorate, that could be serious.

Posted by bob h | March 19, 2008 7:44 AM

It's been said before, but:

it is not at all true that she "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street." Instead, she once confessed her fear of one aggressive panhandler

Your "instead" is nonsensical, Steve. It assumes that both cannot be true, when obviously they can. Or do you think every conversation Obama ever had with his grandmother is quoted in his book?

I'm particularly impressed, though, with how you've mastered the art of the drive-by coded smear. You even managed to work "drama queens" and "dysfunctional family" into the same paragraph. Why not just call them spook fags and be done with it?

And then there's the delectable detail of the "1067-page dissertation on peasant blacksmithing". There's nothing quite so bitter as a failed intellectual.

Posted by Ryan | March 19, 2008 8:41 AM

Oh, and Tim K, go to bed. If you're still arguing at 3:59 a.m. it's time to give up. Thanks, though, for reminding everyone that my country of birth has dishonest morons, too.

Posted by Ryan | March 19, 2008 8:47 AM

Is she a racist too?

No, it just demonstrates that the lack of ability to process information runs in the family.

Of course, unless she was just "agreeing" with you to shut you up so you would leave her alone - which is highly likely.

If you're not by far the most annoying person in your family, that would be pretty scary.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 19, 2008 9:59 AM

Guys, I think we all know that Tim K is insincere. The best response to his tedious little productions is to ignore them. Don't read him, or respond to him. Treat him as a blank space in the thread, and debate real people.

Posted by philipk | March 19, 2008 10:19 AM

Poll: Obama's lead over Clinton has all but evaporated

Posted by Fred | March 19, 2008 11:56 AM

Well, unlike Michelle Obama, I'm proud of my country so I have no problem with being a Canadian commenting on US politics. And if any of you were honest you would admit that if I were a Barack Obama supporter, nobody would have a problem if I were from Japan, Britain, Israel, South Africa, or even Canada.

It was a foregone conclusion that you all (Obama supporters) would be in love with his speech on race. But I'm pretty sure he has your votes anyways.

As Chuck Todd poi