Our Hothouse Future

It sometimes occurs to me that I should probably try to move to a nice country with a cheap currency, blog from there, draw a salary in dollars, and be rich. Maybe Argentina? Indeed, The New York Times reports that "Drawn by the city’s cheap prices and Paris-like elegance, legions of foreign artists are colonizing Buenos Aires and transforming this sprawling metropolis into a throbbing hothouse of cool."

You can sort of see this as one possible future for America's cities if the dollar keeps declining. Barely any Americans can afford to live in Manhattan or San Francisco anyway at this point -- maybe it'll all be taken over by expatriate Europeans looking to take their precious euros someplace where the taxes are low.

Photo by Flickr user Astroman used under a Creative Commons license

Comments

Then theoretically wouldn't it make sense for Alabama to build a cool city where expat New Yorkers can go to reap the benefits of the low cost of living in the deep south?

Posted by freddiemac | March 18, 2008 4:44 PM

freddiemac, until 2005, that city was called New Orleans.

Posted by Tyro | March 18, 2008 4:48 PM

Buenos Aires may be a throbbing hothouse of cool, but the quality of life is much better across the Rio Plate in Montevideo. Buy a house for $100k USD and get residency. Uruguay FTW.

Posted by Some Jerk | March 18, 2008 4:49 PM

Freddiemac,

Need I mention the existance of Tallahassee to suggest what the results would be like?

'Course I do hear Birmingham has its charms.

Posted by DAS | March 18, 2008 4:50 PM

The NY Times leaves out the other key element in Buenos Aires becoming a "hothouse of cool" for European and American ex-pats -- no black people. Sao Paulo was even cheaper five years ago (before the Brazilian real went on its commodity-fueled run), but it never became a similar magnet for expat hipsters. For that matter, I'm sure the Euro and Dollar would go even further in Nairobi, but that's not a hothouse of cool either.

Posted by Harry | March 18, 2008 4:52 PM

My wife is Romanian, and we're planning on settling down in rural Romania to do just that. Of course, with Romania in the EU now, it's anybody's guess how long the price differential will hold out.

Posted by JS Bangs | March 18, 2008 4:53 PM

Plus, the basketball is good.

Posted by Al | March 18, 2008 4:55 PM

Buenos Aires may be a throbbing hothouse of cool, but the quality of life is much better across the Rio Plate in Montevideo.

I'm a hopeless square, so I generally assume from the get-go that the quality of life will be poor in any place that could reasonably be described as a "throbbing hothouse of cool."

On a related topic: What the hell is a "throbbing hothouse of cool"? Is it the opposite of a "throbbing Igloo of hotness"?

Posted by Throbbing Hot Sauce and Gruel | March 18, 2008 4:55 PM

I was in a Irish pub in Amsterdam a few years back. To my surprise, nearly everyone there was actually from Ireland. But they weren't visiting, they lived there. They were mostly computer programmers that worked for Dublin- based companies. Even with decent salaries, they couldn't afford to live in Dublin and moved to Amsterdam for the lower cost of living. No doubt, the people of Amsterdam will eventually move to America to save money, and we will move to South America or Asia to save money. I know I'm trying to find a way to keep my American salary and live in Bangkok.

Posted by fostert | March 18, 2008 5:01 PM

Note, though, Matthew, that you will have to make a major life decision if you move to Buenos Aires.

Boca or River. (I chose River.)

Posted by Al | March 18, 2008 5:01 PM

I was just in Buenos Aires: FANTASTIC. If I were 20 years younger or 20 years older, I'd seriously consider moving there. We ate like kings for $20 per person a night. The weather is good. The arts scene seemed cool. Plus, we went to a Boca game and it rocked.

Most comforting of all, their contemporary politics aren't that different than ours.

For example, they have Peronism. No one down there was able to define what it meant to be a Peronista, but it all seems to refer back to the warm feelings they have about the Perons.

You see this transference even today when the good people of Argentina elected Christine Kirchner to replace her husband, Nelson, who was known for bringing Peronism back.

Peronism and Clintonism aren't that different. No one is able to define precisely what Clintonism means as Bill and Hill tend to campaign on one agenda but pursue a different one once they are in office. Despite this lack of progress for the poor and disadvantaged, the Clintons are great at making people *think* they are for the poor and middle class.

Factor in the fact that the conservative reactionaries in both countries HATE Peronism and Clintonism, and the comparisons are almost scary.

Maybe during the Democratic Convention when Hillary gives her farewell keynote address we'll get to hear her croak out a version of "Don't Cry For Me America."

Posted by Choska | March 18, 2008 5:07 PM

Note, though, Matthew, that you will have to make a major life decision if you move to Buenos Aires.

Boca or River. (I chose River.)

If this is the "Al" I think it is, of course you would choose River Plate. Being a product of the working class, I choose Boca Juniors.

Posted by Roberto | March 18, 2008 5:12 PM

I want this guy to read MattY's excerpt: youtube.com/watch?v=8-uq4LeW5zM (NSFW)

The real action's happenin' in Paraguay.

Wherever you go, MattY, do it illegally.

Posted by TLB | March 18, 2008 5:13 PM

Sigh. I really shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyway.

The New York Times is full of shit.

REALLY, REALLY FULL of shit.

I discussed this Fred in an earlier thread. The New York Times article talks about the experience of RELATIVELY WEALTHY FOREIGNERS in an enclave in Buenos Aires.

It doesn't note the State Department's Travel Warnings that armed muggings and "express Kidnappings" are still a threat.

The Times didn't survey the life of native Argentinians themselves -- who went through hell when their currency collapsed in 2001.

Have things improved recently? Sure. ONLY 25 percent of the population is living below the poverty line --versus 50 percent a few years ago. Unemployment ,while still high, has fallen.
Per Capita income's in Euros or even dollars nothing to brag about.

But much of this occurred because the President refused to pay off Argentina's loans to foreign investors -- and Argentina is still suffering economic sanctions from that move which will retard growth.

For those who think capital flight from the USA --due to a worthless dollar --will be pleasant, I suggest they read Argentinian "FerFAL" 's account of survival conditions in Buenos Aires after the 2001 economic collapse. See http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=044387;p=1

A short excerpt:
""Again, I can pin point the exact moment when the entire country realized what was happening. After the 2001 crisis things had been bad, but people in Buenos Aires, the capital city and the richest province, didn’t realize how bad things actually where in the other provinces. This was until teachers noted that kids had problems with education. You see, they noticed that they had problems to concentrate, that they fell asleep, and that they found it difficult to resolve mathematical equations.
They later found out that this was due to malnutrition, kids where not receiving the minimum amount of nutrients for a healthy working body. The braking point was when a reporter interviewed a little girl about 8 or 9 years old. The reporter lady asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up, the usual kiddy questions. The girl, crying, said that she didn’t want to be anything; that she didn’t care. The lady asked her why was she crying. She said that she cried because she was hungry, that she had nothing to eat for days, and it was then that I noticed how skinny the little girl actually was.
Seeing children starve is terrible, I guess we all saw those images of the starving kids in Africa. But when you see them speak your same language, with your same accent, in your own country, it hits a nerve."
--------
Go and visit a ghetto in New York, Philly, Baltimore or Anacostia in DC. Then imagine most of the country like that.

Posted by Don Williams | March 18, 2008 5:15 PM

Nice to see Matt picked up on my comments about how a weak (but stable) currency made BA a cool place.

"You see this transference even today when the good people of Argentina elected Christine Kirchner to replace her husband, Nelson, who was known for bringing Peronism back."

Her husband's name is Néstor, not Nelson. Here's a pic of him looking a little like the late William F. Buckley.

And the Kirchners' neo-Peronist policies of stiffing international creditors and letting the peso fall by two thirds have helped lead to high economic growth (led by tourism and exports) since the economic collapse at the beginning of the decade. But now their policies may be getting to a point of diminishing returns, with inflation spiking up, and price controls leading to fuel shortages during the winter.

Posted by Fred | March 18, 2008 5:21 PM

I would hesitate before saying that contemporary Argentinian politics resembles the United States. The United States, as far as I know, doesn't have a large and militant Syndicalist/Socialist labor movement that takes over factories every now and then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brukman_factory

Argentina may be stable _now_, but that's merely an overlay over some very deep economic and even more so, ideological fissures which will open up again. Don't be fooled.

It's also, I would imagine, not the best country in which to be a Jew- their constitution, if I remember correctly, bans any non-Catholic from running for president, and opposition to the Jews is traditionally one of the few things the Left and Right can agree on. Mr. Yglesias should be warned.

Peronism, by the way, never had much in common with Clintonism. It wasn't ever a movement of the cosmopolitan middle class, nor was it neoliberal or 'centrist'. While there was acrimounious (and violent) disagreement during the 1960s and 1970s about whether Peronism was essentially of the Left or of the Right, there was general agreement that it _wasn't_ of the Centre.

Posted by Hector | March 18, 2008 5:22 PM

The New York Times article talks about the experience of RELATIVELY WEALTHY FOREIGNERS in an enclave in Buenos Aires.

I am truly shocked to hear this.

Also, I have a strong suspicion that the linked piece is actually a recycled story from 1994, with "Buenos Aires" substituted for "Prague."

Posted by James Gary | March 18, 2008 5:25 PM

Mr. Williams,

Yes, indeed. The NY Times in general is pretty clueless when it comes to understanding developing countries, and particularly so countries in Latin America.

My understanding is that there is no longer severe malnutrition- but still a lot of poverty, and a lot of militancy and resentment towards the United States.

Of course Argentina isn't _quite_ comparable to a Washington DC ghetto. Even the parts of the country which are poor do not, I would imagine, suffer from the crime, despair, and social breakdown that exist in American inner cities.

Posted by Hector | March 18, 2008 5:26 PM

Plus if the US economy collapses, it will pull the rest of the world down with it -- not only is it the world's largest economy, it is also the major trading partner of both Europe and Asia.

The LAST thing you want to be is a foreigner in a foreign land when things turn to shit. The USA has its problems, but its population density is much lower than Europe and Asia, it has plenty of farmland/water, and there's not significant threat of foreign invasion.

A 10 acre farm somewhere in the Mississippi River area is the best bolthole -- maybe in the Arkansas Ozarks if you don't want to worry about a massive radioactive fallout plume from the Minuteman fields in Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.

Posted by Don Williams | March 18, 2008 5:36 PM

Comparing "ghettos" in the US to slums in the second or third world is like comparing apples and oranges. You people need to get out and see more of the world. We have got to be the only country in history with the majority of the people below the poverty level having an obesity epidemic.

Don Williams - I am thinking more along the line of 40 acres. 5 - woods, 5 - pond, 2 - orchard/chickens, 3 - garden/fallow/hog pen, 25 grazing. I will save this for another thread.

Posted by danceswithgoats | March 18, 2008 5:45 PM

@ Tyro: Zing!

Posted by freddiemac | March 18, 2008 5:49 PM

Re Hector

Actually, Argentina has a rather sizeable Jewish population. I don't know if this is still true but at one time, Buenos Aires had one of the 10 largest Jewish populations of any city in the world.

Posted by SLC | March 18, 2008 5:56 PM

Re dancewithgoats "I am thinking more along the line of 40 acres "
--------
Fine -- but be sure to get it on the outskirts of a small town of 3000-5000 population. One which can fortify itself into a walled city state a la medieval hilltop towns in Italy.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to defend an isolated farmhouse -- aka "the secondary crime scene". If you're ambushed by a gang, you'll probably be tortured to reveal where your "buried supplies" are -- and god help you if you don't have any buried supplies.

Posted by Don Williams | March 18, 2008 6:02 PM

"We have got to be the only country in history with the majority of the people below the poverty level having an obesity epidemic."

Mexico also does, I think. Brazil would if it wasn't so damn hot (highest per capita use of sugar in the world, including sprinkling it on fruit).

Posted by Reality Man | March 18, 2008 6:13 PM

Reality Man,

'Hot' in more senses than one. In Brazil (and Argentina) women make an especial effort to keep themselves thin and beautiful.

Posted by Hector | March 18, 2008 6:18 PM

I'm not sure how sizeable Bs. As. Jewish population is, but it's got to be big, because it's the only place outside of Israel where McDonald's has a McKosher brand (saw it myself 2 years ago in the Abastos Shopping Center).

Posted by JRVJ | March 18, 2008 6:19 PM

Don Williams,

I've been to Buenos Aires. It's an enormous city, and it's not just one enclave that is doing well now. It's true that things were pretty crappy for a couple of years after the financial collapse though.

Hector,

"Yes, indeed. The NY Times in general is pretty clueless when it comes to understanding developing countries, and particularly so countries in Latin America."

I don't know if I'd call Argentina a "developing" country. It's more like a former first world country that regressed after several decades of bad political leadership.

Posted by Fred | March 18, 2008 6:21 PM

In any case, the dollar will bottom out this year, IMO. We'll see another two or three more rate cuts from the Fed, then steady-as-she-goes for a while, and then after the election in November the Fed will start tightening again. The dollar will start rebounding, and foreign money will flow into U.S. markets.

Posted by Fred | March 18, 2008 6:26 PM

Fred, you've been smoking some of Cayne's stash. The Fed doesn't have much left to cut, and things are going to get very, very bad soon, but if the current machinery has its way, about say January 2009. Probably on or around the day the next president's sworn in.

I don't really see how you can think anything different considering how many people are saying this is the worst economic climate of the last 60 years. Well, either that, or Greenspan's a total hack, since he's one of those people.

Posted by Greg | March 18, 2008 6:34 PM

Greg,

There is a lag time before the real economy feels the effects of monetary policy. The Fed will probably cut 50-75bps more and then let that stimulus work its way through. More importantly, the Fed has come up with some creative approaches to deal with the credit crisis so far. It will continue to improvise, as needed. The de-leveraging has to happen, but the sky won't fall.

"I don't really see how you can think anything different considering how many people are saying this is the worst economic climate of the last 60 years."

Worst financial crisis -- not the same thing. Worst "economic climate" in the last 60 years? Sounds like you've been hitting Cayne's stash.

Posted by Fred | March 18, 2008 6:53 PM

yet another apparent similarity between USA and Argentina, at least according to our former Secretary of Treasury:

"they do not have any export industry and they like it that way"

which is actually false in reference to Argentina as they ALWAYS had a big trade surplus

Poland used to be cheap with USDs. The currency, however, appreciated in respect to Euros, and in respect to USDs, But to "eat like kings for 20 dollars per person"? I guess I am an unreconstructed peasant. I just finished a suptuous supper with two German students, and we spend 4 Euros total!

Germany actually gives good value for money. Germans are really thrifty, so cheap things are really cheap, and reasonably priced things are really solid. A friend rents an efficiency in the center of Muenster for something like 300 Euros, furnished, (His wife works and lives 400 miles away, in their ancestral city, and they have a house there).

Scots are reputed to be thrifty, but Scotland is expensive. If safety is a consideration, you can find a cottage to buy in some desolate glen, and you would be very safe. Probably you should invest in a bike with a trailer -- gasoline is more than a pound per liter. (Safety is well supported by economics of crime; burning petrol and getting flat tyres on twisty narrow roads to rob some highlanders is not a viable business model).

The last suggestion: go to Venice. The. Most. Beautiful. City. To expensive to live, but this is not a problem: you go there to die!

Posted by piotr | March 18, 2008 7:20 PM

This is actually already going on in America with "creative class" types starting to "colonize" (aka gentrify) some of the historic residential neighborhoods in non-coastal post-industrial cities. And my understanding is that this effect is indeed being driven in part by foreigners driving up real estate prices in the coastal cities. Of course, city living is also becoming more popular in general, but some of that is also related to a weak dollar (such as through higher energy prices).

Posted by DTM | March 18, 2008 7:24 PM

As an Argentine expat, I feel its my duty to disabuse some of you of the strange notions you have about Argentina. Argentina has not for 14 years restricted the presidency to Catholics. Argentina has the largest Jewish community in Latin America and the 5th largest in the world. Where Hector gets the idea that "opposition to the Jews is traditionally one of the few things the Left and Right can agree on" I don't know. Sure, there are anti-Semites in Argentina just like everywhere else, but they are no more prevalent than, say, here in the US, and I don't know of any Argentine political party that "[opposes] the Jews". Don Williams, Buenos Aires is as safe a major metropolis as you'll find anywhere. There are neighborhoods that are dangerous (the Boca, for example), but when my wife and I visited a couple of months ago, we stayed out until all hours of the night all over the city and never felt unsafe. But then, from your comments, you don't seem to have ever visited Argentina. I can assure you that it does not look like a country full of DC,Philly, etc. ghettos. As for Argentina's growth, it's experienced >8% GDP growth for 4 years and shows no signs of slowing (at least not in the projections I've seen).

Posted by Diego | March 18, 2008 7:26 PM

"More importantly, the Fed has to come up with some creative approaches to deal with the credit crisis so far."

See, here's where I disagree. Most of these companies are claiming that the lack of credit is creating a liquidity crisis. I think it's actually quite possible we're seeing a solvency crisis, because these guys are actually going to go bankrupt without crazy easy money. That would be, of course, disastrous.

Posted by Greg | March 18, 2008 7:27 PM

Wiki says there are 250,000 Jews in BA. It's the largest Jewish community in the Southern Hemisphere by a wide margin; overall, it's around sixth (behind New York, Tel Aviv, Los Angeles, London, and Paris, in roughly that order).

Posted by Thlayli | March 18, 2008 7:32 PM

Diego,

I think you might have the wrong idea about me. I'm not critical of Argentina, for the most part. I'm very much a partisan of Latin America in its perennial struggle against Anglo-America. I'm well aware that Argentina has been economically fast growing the last few years, thanks to the fact that they have a sensible government which has the interests of the people in mind, and not American capitalism.

Nevertheless, it's undeniable that Argentina has a historical antipathy towards the Jews. I'm very much a partisan of the Montoneros, but even I would concede that they certainly had (at least in their beginnings) some anti-Jewish elements. Not to mention the Tacuara National Movement, de Meinvieille, the Colonels' regime, and even to some extent the Peronists themselves. There is a reason that half of the Argentine Jewish population left Argentina in the last half century.

I'm not entirely saying this critically, either. Argentina's historical anti_Judaism is a bad thing, certainly, but it's simply the corruption of its tradition of anti-modern, anti-capitalist and anti_Western thought, which are _good_ things.

I believe I also said that while Argentina may have had its economic troubles in recent years, it was _never_ on the order of American ghettoes.

Posted by Hector | March 18, 2008 7:57 PM

Hector,

You think "anti-modern, anti-western, and anti-capitalist" are good things? Then why don't you move to Cuba or North Korea and enjoy what that's like. Since you wouldn't be able to afford a computer there, or have the freedom to access the internet, we wouldn't have to hear anymore nonsense from you.

And of course there aren't any Detroit-like ghettos in Argentina -- there aren't any black people there. That's why the Argentines consider themselves superior to the Brazilians, despite Brazil's superior size and importance on the world stage.

As for the anti-Jew thing, that's true, but it's in the past. I think the bombing at the Jewish center in Buenos Aires in the early 1990's shocked a lot of the anti-Semitism out of Argentina's system.

Posted by Harry | March 18, 2008 8:02 PM

if a bunch of khaki-wearing, blackberry-wielding Americans move to Buenos Aires, it will be the capital of cool no more. it's kind of a euro-hipster city, the Argentine capital - I don't think it's suitable for DC types.

Posted by lorca | March 18, 2008 8:32 PM

Hector,
I'm sorry if I was unclear, the ghetto comment was in response to Don William's comment about Argentina: "Go and visit a ghetto in New York, Philly, Baltimore or Anacostia in DC. Then imagine most of the country like that." That is completely wrong and why I suggested that he had never visited the country. While I agree that anti-Semitism has played a part in the history of Argentine politics, (not any more so than it did here in the US), it certainly plays little role in contemporary Argentine politics, so Matt should have no worries if he wishes to relocate to BsAs. As for your assertion that Argentina has a tradition of anti-Western, anti-modern, anti-capitalist thought, I'm not sure what you mean. There has been some anti-Americanism of late, but you can blame Menem and Clinton and Bush Jr. (and the US support for the military dictatorships throughout Latin America in 60s-70s) for that.

Harry, we think we're better than the Brazilians because we have better soccer players. They have better luck, sure, but we're far more skilled:) I'm afraid that I've never seen the wide-spread, national racism you describe. As for the lack of black people there, Argentina played a much smaller part in the slave trade than did Brazil.

Posted by Diego | March 18, 2008 8:54 PM

I just took a vacation to Buenos Aires. This fact may be an indication that hipster-mecca B.A. jumped the shark even before this last NYT article: I am the opposite of a super-cool, ahead-of-the-curve hipster, although B.A. is still weird enough that literally Every New Hampshire Person I Talked To said "Why are you going to Argentina?" as if I had told them that I was vacationing in Baghdad.

Based on recent observation, I can tell you that the city contains many nice neighborhoods, which are equivalent neither to American inner cities nor to wealth islands like Georgetown, Beacon Hill or the UES. On many blocks, the actual buildings and their interiors were beautiful, but the street level was full of trash, graffiti, people scavenging through the trash for anything of value, other shifty-looking people, crazy traffic, etc. I didn't feel in any significant danger, but I also didn't feel like I was in a 1st world country (granted parts of American cities share this problem). Wealthy people lived in these neighborhoods, but they didn't control the environment and the aura of the streets the way they do in American suburbs or gentrified urban neighborhoods. Also, BA has to be the coastal city with the least actual ocean contact - the picture Matt posted shows water, but that one part of Puerto Madero with its muddy enclosures is the only water one can see without driving way out of the downtown or walking through an enormous ecological reserve to find a trash-strewn beach with water too polluted for swimming.

I can also tell you that Buenos Aires is an enormous city - the federal capital has something like 48 barrios (and enormous greater metropolitan area beyond) and I visited the wealthiest, most cosmopolitan 7. From what I've read and by extrapolation, some of the worst parts of Argentina are these less-visited barrios, and they feature drug epidemics that rival anything in the American inner city (paco, a cocaine derivative - described in a more interesting recent NYT article), neighborhoods even the police mostly stay out of, and very little that would appeal to a tourist or expat. I'm pretty sure that Hector is wrong that ARG has nothing as bad as American ghettoes - I saw and was told about a large scavenger shanty-town near the train station, where the scavengers squat in between flare-ups of police harassment, collect cardboard, and use the train to take their haul out to the recyclers on the outskirts of town. While I admire their green spirit, this is not a nice neighborhood.

At the same time, this massive metropolis does not represent all of Argentina - with so many people packed into such a small land area, there must be a great deal of space for those who live in the countryside, and I assume a very different lifestyle as well. So when we talk about Argentina we're talking about at least three different things - nice BA, not-nice BA, and the rural areas.

What I can agree with is that BA is very, very cheap. If one could find a way to draw a USD (or even better, Euro) salary and pay Argentine cost-of-living, one could live very comfortably. However, it's not Paris, unless one's vision of Paris includes the Muslim-immigrant-filled suburbs and rather than limiting itself to the NYT travel section's romanticized 1920's Paris. There's nothing all that classy or romantic about B.A. - it's a big chaotic city full of every sort of people and every sort of problem, and while there are many beautiful and exciting things about the city it will not turn you into Ernest Hemingway.

Posted by cgaros | March 18, 2008 9:57 PM

I lived in Buenos Aires for a spell in 2000 before the financial melt-down and before it was the cheap and cool place to be. Back then the dollar and peso were pegged 1:1 and you could get either dollars or pesos from the ATMs, it didn't matter. Of course the prices were like living in the US as well. That's why all the traveler types went to Guatemala and Costa Rica instead. I rarely saw other Americans.

Diego characterizes the BsAs that I knew. I had a Jewish Argentinian girlfriend and so a bunch of the people I hung out with were her friends and family. They were all upper-middle or upper class and were porteños through and through. I got no sense at all that anyone felt persecuted or discriminated against for being Jewish.

As for BsAs itself? The city is absolutely enormous. I expect the new expat hipster scene takes up only the tiniest fraction of the city.

The one problem with BsAs in terms of quality of life is that it is enormously difficult to get anyplace else that is interesting. And when you do get there you find the place packed with trendy Argentine types. The nearest decent beaches are in Punto del Este Uruguay which requires a 2 hour ferry ride to Montevideo and 2 more hours of driving up the Uruguay coast. To get to the mountains is a much further drive west across Argentina.

My own pick for the next best Latin American city would be Santiago Chile. My wife is Chilean and so we spend time there every year. It's not so hip and trendy as Argentina but Chile is developing every bit as fast as Argentina. And frankly, the people are nicer. Santiago lies at the edge of the Andes with some of the nicest neighborhoods right up in the Andean foothills. Great skiing is no more than 1/2 hour away up in the Andes. The Chilean beach resorts are 1.5 hours west. And the heart of the Chilean wine country is a short drive south. Point being, one can live in Santiago and have an endless assortment of interesting weekend destinations. If you live in Buenos Aires you begin to feel trapped by the city. At least I did.

Posted by Kent | March 18, 2008 10:03 PM

Don Williams (great singer by the way) - I will humor you.

I have no desire to hole up in a fortress town with the 565 (salute!) worthless tits that are close to my parent's bolthole. I think I can hold our bolt hole with my four brothers, three brother-in-laws and four male friends with families. The buy in is 100 lbs of beans and 100 lbs of rice/head with all the fire arms, ammo, seeds, fishing equipment, and fuel you can bring. We have enough beef, goats and sheep to feed us for many years.

My, how these threads get off topic. I apologize.

Posted by danceswithgoats | March 18, 2008 10:13 PM

Re Diego's comment "I'm sorry if I was unclear, the ghetto comment was in response to Don William's comment about Argentina: "Go and visit a ghetto in New York, Philly, Baltimore or Anacostia in DC. Then imagine most of the country like that."
---------------
I'm sorry --I wasn't clear. While Argentina went through bad times after the currency crisis in 2001, it has since partially recovered. In part because the rest of the world's economy was still robust so Argentina could resume trade and gain foreign capital via tourism,etc.

When I said "imagine most of the country like that (inner city ghettos)" , I was referring to what AMERICA would be like if there was a similar run on the dollar.

We would be in even worse shape than Argentina in 2001-- in part because the rest of the world would crash with us and there would be no help coming in from outside.

Just look at the state of New Orleans 8 months after the Hurricane --even though the rest of the USA was untouched and able to render aid.

My understanding is that large parts of Buenos Aires had high crime rates and were very dangerous to travel in --especially after night -- in 2002.

Posted by Don Williams | March 18, 2008 10:27 PM

Re dancewithgoats comment "I think I can hold our bolt hole with my four brothers etc"
-------------
You're wrong.

Posted by Don Williams | March 18, 2008 10:35 PM

I should probably try to move to a nice country with a cheap currency

Hate to break it to you Matt. You're already living in a country with a cheap currency.

Posted by Jinchi | March 18, 2008 10:38 PM

I'm actually leaving on Friday for a week in Buenos Aires. Now the reality of my un-coolness has been exposed because my vacation destination is in the NYT travel section this very week. Oh well.

Choska, any advice for a gringo planning to attend a Boca Juniors match? (or any other BsAs advice...)

By the way, at the 2006 World Cup, Argentina's coach and captain were both Jewish (Jose Pekerman & Juan Pablo Sorin). I also recently saw a pretty good movie called "El Abrazo Partido / Lost Embrace" that's about a Jewish Argentine family.

I know that security at synagogues can be tight due to a bombing back in the 90's, but I haven't gotten the impression that anti-semitism is an especially big problem in Argentina.

Posted by Ricky B | March 18, 2008 10:44 PM

Indeed. And Matt's statement would be a little more credible if he had already, say, moved up the road a bit to a place like Pittsburgh (where the cost of living is much cheaper than DC, and his dollar-denominated salary would thus go a lot farther).

Posted by DTM | March 18, 2008 10:47 PM

Choska, any advice for a gringo planning to attend a Boca Juniors match? (or any other BsAs advice...)

I only went to games at the River Plate stadium but my advice would be to get the most expensive tickets available so you can get away from the worst of the hooligan element.

Another piece of advice would be to take a tour to the Iguazu falls at the border between Argentina, Brazil, and Paraguay. One of the true natural wonders of the world. You can walk into any travel agency in Buenos Aires and book an excursion to Iquazu. Well worth it if you have the time.

Posted by Kent | March 18, 2008 11:08 PM

"throbbing hothouse of cool" has to be a contender for the worst mixed metaphor of the year. You say it was the New York Times that printed that sentence?

Posted by roac | March 18, 2008 11:18 PM

Harry,

Yes, I do have a strong distaste for capitalism, liberalism and Western modernity, and I would prefer to see a Christian-Socialist "republic of the saints". Inasmuch as Latin America in general has a strong history of anti-capitalist, anti-liberal, anti-modern and anti-Western thought, I have a visceral preference for Latin America as against Anglo-America. Of course Latin America has its cosmopolitan classes who would like nothing better than for their countries to become little copies of the West, but thankfully they face strong opposition. Was it Gustavo Gutierrez who said that Latin America would be the savior and conscience of a decadent West?

I'm not sure why I need to be defending my thought against an open racist, but there it is. Your way of thinking is more accepted in the United States than mine is, which says all you need to know about the moral health of modern Anglo-America.

Posted by Hector | March 18, 2008 11:39 PM

Lima is another good place for this kind of lifestyle transplant. Up and coming place, great restaurants, cheap-ish real estate, fairly mild climate, great beaches to the north and south. My wife and I are seriously considering it....

Posted by underwritten | March 19, 2008 12:54 AM

You realize that Pizarro founded his little city in a desert, underwritten?

If you like Scottsdale, I guess...

To each his own.

Posted by Greg | March 19, 2008 1:04 AM

Well aware of the Pizarro thing, Greg. I'm probably missing some wry cue in your post, but Scottsdale and Lima could not be more different...

Posted by underwritten | March 19, 2008 1:07 AM

Heh, I'm sorry, dude, I meant that I wouldn't want to live in a desert, which Scottsdale, as well as Lima, is.

Hence my "to each his own"

I'd prefer the River Plate drainage basin, ie. Uruguay or Argentina. Plus you get the pampas too, and I always did love cowpokes.

My favored place is Capetown, but I've never been, since my parents are terrified of anything subsaharan.

Any comments?

Posted by Greg | March 19, 2008 1:17 AM

Gotcha. Lima is an odd kind of desert city though, sitting on the coast, and enshrouded in fog most of the winter, almost London-like in its humidity. Melville called Lima the saddest city in the world (another point of departure from Scottsdale). Heh, so I want to live there.

Posted by underwritten | March 19, 2008 1:24 AM

That's actually pretty neat - I was always confused by Pizarro's decision, but I guess that makes more sense.

Posted by Greg | March 19, 2008 1:38 AM

Forgot to mention soccer - I went to a River Plate game and found it to be excellent. The only bad part was that it seems like Argentina is way behind the US on the internet ticket sales idea - I looked pretty carefully on the internet and couldn't find any direct ticket sales website. I didn't want to pay tourist package prices, and we got to BA the day of the game and so didn't have time to figure out where and how one buys tickets legitimately, so we wound up buying questionable tickets from a shady scalper and barely made it past security. I'm sure there was some wiser way to go about this process - I would consider either paying for an agency to take care of tickets for you or showing up early and scouting more thoroughly than I had time to. Also, River has home and away sections at the endzones which probably should be avoided unless you know what you're doing. Sideline seats were full of energetic but relatively sane and harmless fans. Boca might be crazier in general but the advice about paying more and avoiding hooligans makes sense. Be sure not to do anything that identifies you as an away team fan - they need police protection and a head start leaving the stadium.

Posted by cgaros | March 19, 2008 3:47 AM

Late to the game here on Lima, but since it is my city I'll throw in a bit more than two cents:
1. Lima is gaining a reputation as the foodie crowd exerts ever more pull. Fresh, crisp, tasty, and flavorful ingredients are abundant and some of the top young chefs in the world ply their craft in Lima. Additionally, the position of pisco - a very close cousin of grappa - and vino is completely reversed from that of Chile (drink the former national and the latter imported).

2. The winter thing absolutely rules out Lima as the new hipster city. London fog, with San Francisco dampness and rarely a day of even partly cloudy skies. This is over 6 months of the year (May-October minimum) and then the summer is muggier than SF. The beaches are dirty and have more crime/fewer beautiful people than Buenos Aires. Peru lacks a strong club scene or many good bars, but does have an excellent literary scene.

3. Starbucks is incredibly popular in Lima already. Last time I was in BA, they did not have any. This goes to the racial divisions in Peru as anything European or American will be gobbled up by a large aspirational class. This includes TGI Fridays, Chili's, McDonald's and even (especially) KFC! Outside of Lima, there is strong resentment to this group of "pituco Limeños".

4. Behind it all, Peru has had strong growth and low inflation lately. Rents are rising for Americans and real estate is already unaffordable throughout the nice parts of the city. The sprawl and lack of public transport make for a possible libertarian dream/nightmare, but not the dense/neo-yuppie type of living arrangements that appeal to the expat hipster crowd.

Maybe in another 10 years ;)

Posted by dan k | March 19, 2008 4:07 AM

Something the NYT does not mention that should be a consideration for young American men is the beauty of Argentine women (Spanish/Italian, well maintained), and their interest in meeting you.

Also, for those with Spitzerian inclinations, prostitution is tolerated, and widespread.

But BA is no longer cheap; a hotel I use there has gone from $60 per night to $140 since 2002.

Posted by bob h | March 19, 2008 7:38 AM

I only went to games at the River Plate stadium but my advice would be to get the most expensive tickets available so you can get away from the worst of the hooligan element.

I would agree with this, BTW - especially since there has been a spate of soccer violence in Argentina over the past month.

A few years back, I also went to a match at the River stadium (El Monumental), which is in a nicer part of town than La Boca. Just asked at my hotel for help getting tix and it was no problem.

Posted by Al | March 19, 2008 1:42 PM

Re: Something the NYT does not mention that should be a consideration for young American men is the beauty of Argentine women (Spanish/Italian, well maintained), and their interest in meeting you.

Indeed. Maybe I should go visit Argentine one of these days. (In a Christian spirit, with an eye towards marriage and children, of course.)

Posted by Hector | March 19, 2008 1:44 PM

"Something the NYT does not mention that should be a consideration for young American men is the beauty of Argentine women (Spanish/Italian, well maintained), and their interest in meeting you."

There's also some German, Polish, and, to a lesser extent, British mixed in there. And no blacks or mulattoes.

Posted by Harry | March 19, 2008 2:01 PM

Please note that the NY Times has done it again!

Newsweek: Jan. 15, 2007

The Capital of Cool: Hip, happening Buenos Aires is luring writers, artists and musicians from around the world

By Brian Byrnes

http://www.newsweek.com/id/56568

New York Times: March 16, 2008

Argentine Nights: Drawn by low prices and Paris-like elegance, expat artists, designers and musicians are transforming Buenos Aires into a throbbing hothouse of cool.

By Denny Lee

http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/travel/16buenos.html?ref=travel

**************************************
Newsweek:

Hundreds, if not thousands, have spilled in from the United States, England, Spain and beyond, helping to bring the capital out of a period of deep cultural isolation after an economic collapse five years ago.

NYT:

Musicians, designers, artists, writers and filmmakers are sinking their teeth into the city's transcontinental mix of Latin élan and European polish, and are helping shake the Argentine capital out of its cultural malaise after a humbling economic crisis earlier this decade.

****************************************
Newsweek:

Champagne-fueled fashion shows and gallery openings keep the city's glitterati on a 24/7 social schedule. Casting agents scour bars looking for young English or Mandarin speakers for the dozens of foreign commercials regularly being shot in the city.

NYT:

Video directors are scouting tango ballrooms for English-speaking actors. Wine-soaked gallery openings and behemoth gay discos are keeping the city's insomniacs up till sunrise.

************************************************
Newsweek:

Argentina's turnaround began only after it hit bottom in 2002, when years of financial stagnation culminated in the collapse of the Argentine peso. Suddenly, it became three times more expensive for Argentines to fly to Paris, Milan or New York, and nobody had the money to buy a painting or see a show. Many local artists were forced to flee to Europe, draining life out of the local art scene. The sour mood was underscored by a sense of bitterness toward foreigners, whom many Argentines blamed for the crash.

The crash had a flip side, though. Overnight, Argentina became one of the world's most affordable travel destinations, breaking its isolation.

NYT:

For much of the 20th century, Buenos Aires ranked among the world's most expensive capitals, on par with Paris and New York. Broad boulevards were lined with splendid specimens of French belle époque architecture that evoked the Champs-Élysées, and tree-lined streets were buzzing with late-night cafes and oak-and-brass bars. Locals, it is often said, identify more as European than South American.

Then came the financial crisis of late 2001. The Argentine peso, which was once pegged to the United States dollar, plunged to a low of nearly 4 to 1 in the face of mounting debt and runaway inflation. (It holds steadily today at about 3 to 1.) Overnight, Buenos Aires went from being among the priciest cities to one of the world's great bargain spots.

There was a silver lining. Even as local artists flocked overseas, producing a kind of creative brain drain from Buenos Aires, foreigners arrived in record numbers.

*****************************************************
Newsweek:

Dozens of blogs written by expats enthusiastically tout the good life on offer in B.A.

NYT:

Like dozens of similar blogs written by foreigners, it rhapsodizes about the Argentine good life.

******************************************************
Newsweek:

American Marina Palmer, who lives in B.A. with her husband, published a memoir in 2005 about her experiences as a foreigner on the tango circuit. "Kiss and Tango" has been snapped up by Hollywood and is awaiting its big-screen adaptation.

NYT:

The writer Marina Palmer quit her advertising job in New York City, moved to Buenos Aires and, in 2005, published a "Sex in the City"-like memoir set in the city's vampish tango scene. "Kiss and Tango" has been optioned by Hollywood, with Sandra Bullock recently floated as a possible lead.

**************************************************
Newsweek:

Californian David Lampson used the $50,000 he won on a Bravo TV reality show for aspiring comedy writers to buy an apartment in B.A., where he's hard at work on several sitcom pilots for U.S. television networks.

NYT:

"It's like Prague in the 1990s," said Mr. Lampson, who is perhaps best known for winning a Bravo TV reality show, "Situation: Comedy," in 2005, about sitcom writers.

*****************************************************
Newsweek:

Music producer Tom Rixton worked with some of the biggest names in British music before moving to Buenos Aires with his Argentine wife to open a boutique hotel and mix music.

NYT:

At a former furniture factory on Calle Honduras, the British music engineer Tom Rixton, who has worked with top acts like Depeche Mode, runs a stylish boutique hotel called Home with his Argentine wife.

****************************************************
Newsweek:

New York designer Amanda Knauer moved to B.A., where she founded QARA, a designer line of high-quality Argentine leather bags and purses.

NYT:

Nearby on Calle Garruchaga, Amanda Knauer, a fashion designer from Manhattan, sells a chic line of leather handbags at Qara.

*********************************************************
Newsweek:

When San Francisco native Gavin Burnett, 25, first moved to Buenos Aires in 2004, he was disappointed by the generic downtown music scene. It was only after digging a little deeper that he discovered a bustling underground movement in bohemian neighborhoods like San Telmo and Palermo. Now Burnett works the local circuit under his DJ name Oro 11, mixing American hip-hop with Caribbean reggaetón and Argentine cumbia.

"There's music going on here that is completely original and not happening anywhere else in the world," he says. "Expats have a lot to do with that." Most Wednesday nights you'll find him working or hanging out at the über -cool Niceto Club at a party called Zizek , which has become the focal point of the collaborative Argentine/expat musical scene. It is promoted by another foreigner, Texan Grant Dull, who also edits the city's go-to bilingual cultural Web site, WhatsUpBuenosAires.com.

NYT:

"There's a group of maybe 10 producers and D.J.'s who are really pushing these new styles," said Gavin Burnett, 26, a D.J. from San Francisco who blends cumbia with hip-hop and Jamaican dancehall under the pseudonym Oro11.

And at Zizek, a weekly dance party run by an expat from San Antonio, the cha-ch-ch-cha rhythms of cumbia folk music quivers to an electronic beat.

"There are expats everywhere tapping into the city's thriving cultural and arts scene," said Grant C. Dull, Zizek's founder, who also runs the popular bilingual Web guide WhatsUpBuenosAires.com.

********************************************************
Newsweek:

Argentina has a storied film tradition, and in recent years its movies have been gaining international acclaim, winning top honors at the Berlin, Stockholm and Tribeca film festivals. Local critics and directors confess that the economic crisis sparked a series of self-reflective feature films that examine both local and global themes, such as Rodrigo Moreno's "The Guardian," about a bodyguard who subsumes his own identity to the minister he protects, and Jorge Gaggero's "Live-In Maid," about a wealthy woman who loses her fortune--and eventually her maid--in the economic collapse. This creative environment appeals not only to natives but also to foreign filmmakers feeling constricted by Hollywood's conventions. "We felt an immediate connection with Buenos Aires," says Jane Hallisey, a screenwriter and film producer who moved from New York to Buenos Aires in 2003 with her Swiss partner and fellow cinéasteTomi Streiff, to escape the grim, diminished work environment of post-9/11 New York.

NYT:

Argentina has a storied film history — notable examples include the 1968 political documentary "The Hour of the Furnaces" and the post-junta feature, "Official Story," which won the Academy Award for best foreign-language film in 1986 — and, in recent years, a so-called New Argentine Cinema has emerged, thanks to a new crop of directors like Daniel Burman and Lucrecia Martel who are winning prizes in Berlin, Toronto and other film festivals. They have set up shop along the fringes of fashionable Palermo, in an area now known as Palermo Hollywood.

As with other creative fields, the cinematic revival got some unexpected help from the financial crisis. Not only did the industry benefit from the influx of foreigners looking for cheap production costs, but the peso meltdown also provided grist for creative self-examination. "People were no longer talking about pretty dresses or soap operas," said Tomi Streiff, a filmmaker who moved to Buenos Aires from New York City with his partner and fellow screenwriter, Jane Hallisey.

Posted by Juanson Garcia | March 19, 2008 2:09 PM

I am a US-born historian of Argentina (my book on Argentina b/t 1930-1955 will be out soon), and I have spent a good deal of time in Buenos Aires. My first trip to BA in 1990 was only going to last 6 months, but I extended it to 18 -- and I only left for Santiago de Chile then because I knew that if I stayed any longer I would never leave.

For many people (myself included) BA inspires a fierce love that I have only seen matched by my Chilean wife's love for San Francisco. BA -- warts and all -- is a beautiful, interesting city, full of all kinds of people. I remember walking down the street in Flores neighborhood one afternoon after work and just absorbing the fun of it all: this was a neighborhood with a sizeable Irish population in the early 20th c., but by te early 1990s had a significant pocket of Koreans living there. So there I was, walking down the street with two Hasidic Jews just to the right of me, a Korean couple behind me, and a smattering of blonds, redheads, Armenians, etc. -- and everyone was speaking this wonderful, strong, Italianized Spanish.

I think that part of the appeal is that Argentines tend to not really care all that much about the existence of other people -- and I mean that in a good way. Despite the perpetual self-flagellation that many Argentines engage in, I have found Argentines to have a very healthy sense of the vibrancy of their own culture (even if they can't always define what that is). Porteños are usually loud, blunt and impatient, but they are also incredibly well-educated on the whole, aware of the world, self-deprecating, and have a pretty low tolerance for bullshit. All of this is incredibly contagious, which is why I think that so many Koreans, Russians, Taiwanese, etc., arrive thinking that they will use BA as a jumping off point for migration elsewhere end up staying.

The city itself is spectacular. I think it was Clemenceau who described it in 1910 as "the capital of an empire that doesn't exist" -- which is about right. Brilliant journalism; great writers; wonderful music; good food; and 24-hour bookstores lining one of the downtown streets. In fact, this is a city where people take reading incredibly seriously. Be sure to see the bookstore El Ateneo on Av. Santa Fe -- it is a converted and restored turn-of-the-century theater, and easily the most beautiful bookstore that I have seen in the Americas. The architecture is an amazing mashup of virtually every building trend from the 1880s onward, including what remains the world's tallest poured-concrete skyscraper (the Alas building), and the ornate Palacio Barolo (whose evil twin lies just across the river in Montevideo.

With regard to anti-semitism, I really don't think that there is anything to worry about. It is not true that, as one poster wrote "it's undeniable that Argentina has a historical antipathy towards the Jews." It makes no sense to tar the whole country with the brush of anti-semitism in that way -- not because it isn't nice, but because it simply is not accurate. If we do, the same could be said of the USA. To in any way discourage Jews from going to Buenos Aires out of fear of anti-semitism would only make sense if you also discourage Jews from going to New York City for the same reason.

As for the comparisons with US politics, I think that things are actually a bit deeper than the Peronism v. `Clintonism' comparison. What both countries have in common in political terms is the lack of clear, stable, distinctive political parties. The Republican Party and the Democratic Party are social alliances in party garb; the same is true of Peronism, the UCR, and most of the small opposition parties. This means that much of politics depends on the allotment of $$ to cement alliances together in both countries. For a nice comparison, just look to Chile, where political parties are much more clearly-defined by class and worldview.

As for the comparisons with other South American cities that a few people have made here: in the late 1980s São Paulo actually did go through a brief influx of US hipsters (I have many friends who went), but while the cultural life of the city as *at least* as good as that of BA, SP is simply not as beautiful or even navegable as BA -- I doubt that it really has much to do with race at the end of the day; Santiago de Chile has improved tremendously over the last 8 years or so, and it really has gone from an awful, noisy, culturally dead place to a wonderful city with a growing immigrant population (Colombian, Peruvian, Argentine, Russian, Cuban, Irish) -- and the geographical advantages of the place a tremendous. With that said, Santiago still feels like a small town compared to BA, though there is something to be said for that smallness; Montevideo is like Buenos Aires without all the headaches, and it is a place that I really would love to spend more time in. All four cities are amazingly gay-friendly by US standards, but I think that BA gets a few extra points on this count: civil unions are recognized; a transgender Peronist was elected to the lower house of the national congress about a decade ago now; and the city boasts the world's only 5-star gay hotel, for what its worth.

You can see some nice pictures here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=593498

Posted by CharlyGardel | March 19, 2008 11:00 PM

As a student and English teacher, I have lived for a month or more in London, Prague, Beirut, Dubai, Bangkok, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires in the past eight years. Save Dubai and Sao Paulo, I'd love to live in all these places for an extended period. I don't want to speculate on MY's salary, but at around $45k/yr, BA would be my first choice. It's a great city. For a single guy, though, it's like Beirut. The women are beautiful, but the men are just as good-looking. It's not like Prague or Sao Paulo or Moscow where the American dude does significantly better than at home.

Posted by Mike | March 20, 2008 4:03 AM