Is John McCain really only 5'7"? As Kevin Drum points out, it's been a mighty long time since we've elected a short person to the White House. To be sure, the shorter of two tall candidates sometimes wins, but this is another matter entirely.
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President Short
31 Mar 2008 05:12 pm
Comments (69)
I can believe it. When he hugs Dubya he looks him right in the codpiece.
5'7" That's an actor's height, not a leaders. (Where did you go Fred Thompson?)
Also, I know a lot has been made of how old McCain's mother is but didn't his father and grandfather die before they were McCain's age? That VP slot is gonna be mighty important.
"How dare you attack a War Hero....
And a representative of the lollipop guild!
Yes, he is. I'm 5-7, and I've been in close proximity to McCain (I worked on his campaign in 2000, which I now regret), and he's exactly as tall as I am.
If Clinton gets the nomination (admittedly unlikely) could she win by wearing ultra-high heels during the debates?
Dude's clearly got short man's disease.
Well, aren't all fighter pilots short? Isn't there something like a 6'0" limit on pilots? hmmm...McCain might be shorter than Hillary. Can we get Megan McCardle to stand next to McCain at a public event? The youtube of that would doom him.
No comment on height, just here to remind everyone of a favorite quote from St. McSame:
"There's going to be more wars."
This is why Wikipedia kicks ass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heights_of_United_States_presidential_candidates
It says George W. Bush is exactly the same stature as Herbert Hoover!
I'd say that 5'7'' is better described as 'below average' than short. It's one S.D. below the average- about one sixth of American men are below 5'7'', including fully one half of Hispanic men.
Oddly enough a number of great military leaders were quite small- I believe General Franco and Lawrence of Arabia were both only 5'3''.
So that makes McCain an inch and a half shorter than Hillary . . . a full six inches shorter than Obama.
No wonder the Democratic primary is so hard fought; it's the de facto general.
Yet another reminder of how much the esteemed press wants to blow McCain. Somehow, Kucinich deserved mock, scorn, and ridicule for being the same height. He was called elfin and the like. Yes, McCain is a serious candidate in spite of his height.
Of course, height shouldn't matter at all. Yet why did it matter for the Kooch?
I don't believe that either Nixon or GW Bush was/is 5'11". Their relationship of their actual heights to those heights is the same as the relationship of pretty much anything else they ever said to the actual truth.
Ladies and gentlemen, meet your next President: Stubby McMunchkin.
Far be it from me to stand up for McCain, who seems to be about a foot shorter than I am, but his grandfather's death cited above is irrelevant -- the guy wore himself out running a big part of the fast carrier offensive in the Pacific, one of the amazing achievements in American history, and apparently basically came home to die from exhaustion.
In line with the height facts above, age facts:
John S. McCain, Jr. (1911–1981)
John S. McCain, Sr.(1884–1945)
But he doesn't look wimpy...in fact, he looks the type of guy who you would rip your ear off during a fight (despite his age). Does that balance it out at all?
He may appear like a toy pug next to Obama but once we get to hear about IQs & values he can expect to recover any losses he might suffer from height bias as more Americans no matter their chosen height or racial persuasion will feel far less threatened with Homer Simpson in charge of the ship of state than Ned Flanders. Hoo-HOO!
McCain figures that the 'white male candidate always wins' trend/superstition will give him a boost at the finish line this year.
Obama could rest his drink on McCain's head at official functions.
I'm 6'3" and my gf is 5'0". I do that that at shows sometimes. Sometimes I end up wearing my drink.
Hmm..a short, apparently vastly experienced, warmonger against a tall, lanky, oratorically gifted, wicked smart politician in Illinois whose primary governmental experience was in the state legislature...
I think I like the way this is going to turn out.
McCain should check with Kim Jong Ill for footwear advice.
Speaking of short leaders, Vladimir Putin is only 5'5" and the incoming President, Medvedev is shorter still at 5'4"
LabDancer, I think of him more as Grandpa Simpson. Can't you just imagine him yelling at clouds?
5'7 is awfully close to average, so it may or may not matter. Jimmy Carter and Trumen were both 5'9, and that's only average.
In the end, the way they do things now, it won't likely matter. The podiums are too far away to compare heights directly, and face by face shots will equalize height.
I think this is one of those things that are a product of politics after TV, but before stagecraft set in. Now that those crafts have been mastered by political types, I doubt it's going to matter anymore.
I think I like the way this is going to turn out.
A bloody civil war that will traumatize the nation for a century?
Here's a shot of McCain with Jimmy Carter that really emphasizes how short he is:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/Chill.jpg
fighter pilots are usually short, at least never very tall.
McCain's pretty old. He was probably taller than 5'7" once (or maybe shorter now). Most people lose an inch or two as they age due to disk shrinkage in the spine.
By the way, LBJ was pretty tall, but I'm not sure how tall. And he had unusually small chairs in the oval office so he could tower over anyone sitting in those chairs. He'd bend over, put a hand on their shoulder and scream in their face while pointing at them with the other hand. He loved to intimidate people.
Short & Old? The guy's toast! Obama is young, handsome and tall. Can't wait for the debates!
By the way, on the old front, does everyone realize that John McCain's age puts him among the oldest of the new leaders in the world and that Obama isn't the youngest, should they both get elected? Notice anything in this chart?:
COUNTRY LEADER AGE*
Russia Medvediv 44
Syria al Assad 44
Hamas/Gaza Harniyeh 46
Jordan Abdulla II 47
Mexico Calderon 47
USA OBAMA 48
Canada Harper 50
Afganistan Karzai 52
Iran Ahmadinejad 53
France N. Sarkozi 54
Germany A. Merkle 55
Poland Kaczynski 55
Venezuela Chevez 55
Austrailia K. Rudd 58
UK G. Brown 58
Israel Olmert 63
Pakistan Musharaf 66
USA MCCAIN 72
China Jintao 76
Palestinial Aut Abbas 74
Egypt Mubarak 81
Saudi Arabia Abdullah 85
*January 2009
Got there yet? Ok, I'll tell you.
1)All of the leaders who came to power in the most recent elections are under 60 and most are 55 or younger.
2) Obama would be only the 6th youngest leader and generationally within the age of the leaders which the US will need to convince that our foreign policy has changed.
3) John McCain is generationally matched only by leaders who are the least democratic (accept for Abbas)
What says more about the USA than electing Obama? Let me know because I don't see it.
I think McCain is really missing something here. The shortest President in the last 100+ years was Truman at 5'9", pointing out that the United States has obviously not worked through the verticalism inherent in our First President George Washington (6'2"). Not since William McKinley's election at the turn of the 20th Century has someone so small risen so high!
Lets up open up a dialogue on this pernicious bias in our society. Let those with height kneel down on bended knee to hear the voices from below. John McCain for President! "It's not the size of the man in the fight, but the size of the fight in the man!"
Whoops, forgot N. Korea Kim Jung Il 68. I make my case.
Whoops, forgot N. Korea Kim Jung Il 68. I make my case.
Whoops, forgot N. Korea Kim Jung Il 68. I make my case.
Depending on who's bio version you read, Summer Glau is either 5' 6" or 5' 8". She looks just a couple inches shorter than Tom Dekker, who's supposedly 5' 10", so either is probably right.
Which means she's only an inch shorter or taller than McCain - and definitely could kick McCain's ass.
One ballet move and the War Hero is toast!
Don't be so harsh on the shorties! One of my favorite pols, Steve Novick, is running for Senate in Oregon. And the man is a whopping is 4'9"!!! But the best part is that he has a hook for a hand! Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2UesvrH-cs
There is no f*&$ing way that McCain will ever win the general - every single card is stacked against him. There's a war. A bad economy. The party holding the presidency usually changes hands after 8 years. And now this too?
If the Democrats can't win this election, they might as well give up.
Heh, heh, gotta agree with Al on that one.
Now watch the Democrats screw up by nominating Clinton after she and Bill pull some bullshit and disenfranchise all the Obamabots.
I was somewhat stunned recently when I learned that Martin Luther King Jr. was merely 5 feet, 4 1/2 inches tall. I'm not sure I had ever seen a photo that provided the proper perspective on King to assess his height until I saw one recently that made it look like his head had been Photoshopped onto a shorter man's body. I looked it up and, sure enough, he really was that short. I guess his elevated rhetoric made me think he was taller?
I hadn't really thought about McCain's height, but I probably would have guessed 5' 10" or 5' 11".
One more note: there was a recent attempt by scholars to figure out what Jesus would have really looked like, given what we know about 1st-century people in what is now Israel/Palestine. The scholars guessed that Jesus was likely about 5' 1".
I'm with Al, and I'll probably leave the party forever if they blow it. I'd never join the Republicans though.
Kinda short, and none too bright:
"Naval Academy Trivia: McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class."
I think I like the way this is going to turn out.
Up to the part where Obama gets assassinated at the theater one night. Maybe we should take both VP candidates seriously.
Actually, I'd love to gloat about the height difference, since this time it favors my preferred candidate. But I hope the rule doesn't hold too strongly, or my chances of ever seeing a woman President in my lifetime will be slim.
I wonder why it's OK to make fun of a man's height? It's not something that we _choose_ after all, any more than our race.
I'm a Democrat, but the tone of this thread makes me more sympathetic towards McCain.
McCain would probably be average or a little above in a country like Bolivia.
Nor is intelligence necessarily the best qualifier for a President. Nixon was a very smart man, and an evil one.
If the Democrats can't win this election, they might as well give up.
I agree. But don't you wish it was a third party we were electing? I can't stand either of them, to be frank. What I mean exactly is I am frustrated. I am young, and I am frustrated with what I see around me.
I'm ready for a serious change to policy, manner, goodwill, and policies that really benefit us, as independents of a whole.
I just think we need to be more progressive in so many areas, and by "progressive" I mean all the good connotations of the word.
Hemingway once said something, and I don't remember the exact quote, but he said something like to be a Great writer, you have to be brutally honest, and many people can't go there; can't GET there.
I think this is exactly right. We all need a wake-up call.
Well, aren't all fighter pilots short? Isn't there something like a 6'0" limit on pilots?
Umm, no. I'm in Air Force, doing pilot training right now, and there are plenty of dudes walking around well over 6 feet. I have a friend who's 6'7" and he somehow manages to squeeze into a T-6 cockpit. I don't know how, since I'm 5'10" and I find it to be a tight fit.
Most people lose an inch or two as they age due to disk shrinkage in the spine.
I hear that riding a rocket chair out of a speeding aircraft can do that as well.
"Nor is intelligence necessarily the best qualifier for a President."
But it should be a requirement. Except in America, we like a guy we can relate to.
McCain is one of the oldest looking 71 year olds that is still alive. More needs to be made of that.
"The scholars guessed that Jesus was likely about 5' 1"."
If I ever meet Andrea Corr, I can now tell her that she was a half-inch taller than Jesus. She'll be so thrilled, being a devout Catholic.
I apologize for the length of the following appended quote, but in light of the subject matter I'm sure its relevance will be clearly apparent to all.
"Don't want no short short man
Don't want no short short man
Don't want no short short man
Don't want no short short man
Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't
Don't, don't, don't, don't
Don't want, don't want, don't want, don't want
Don't want no short short man
Don't want no short short man
Eeny weeny teeny weeny
Shriveled little short (short) man."
--20 Fingers Feat. Gillette, 1994
If he admits he's 5'7", he's probably more like 5'6" or 5'5".
It's like the NBA or football, they make up all the facts...
Yeah, and he's mostly bald, too! How much does he weigh? Oh well, old, short, bald, angry, war, and recession should be enough to trump the straight-talking maverick war-hero.
"Naval Academy Trivia: McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class."
Oh, my! McCain makes C+Agustus look like a genius!
Holy...please, tell me that the Washington Post attracts a special breed of idiot. Check out this dude's comment history: http://tinyurl.com/2oprnq
This is why Obama can't win. There are too many people like this in the country who still think Fox is a news station.
Most people lose an inch or two as they age due to disk shrinkage in the spine. I hear that riding a rocket chair out of a speeding aircraft can do that as well.
Good point. McCain's ejected twice and crashed twice. Can't have done him much good - IIRC each ejection loses you about an inch in height, and after two you're grounded (at least in the RAF; don't know about the US) because a third could cause permanent serious spinal damage.
Meanwhile, the first McCain general campaign ad refers to "The American President the American people have been waiting for", clearly signalling a coming line of attack on Obama as too foreign, too woggy somehow. McCain, who approves the ad, is seen to be a scumbag.
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Round here
aren't all fighter pilots short?
McCain wasn't a fighter pilot--he flew ground attack aircraft (several notches below fighter pilots in prestige, although that pecking order is probably misguided).
Most people lose an inch or two as they age due to disk shrinkage in the spine.
I hear that riding a rocket chair out of a speeding aircraft can do that as well.
And McCain, having crashed a number of airplanes, probably started out a six-footer if that's true.
Far be it from me to stand up for McCain, who seems to be about a foot shorter than I am, but his grandfather's death cited above is irrelevant -- the guy wore himself out running a big part of the fast carrier offensive in the Pacific, one of the amazing achievements in American history, and apparently basically came home to die from exhaustion.
Posted by Gene O'Grady
McCain Sr. was one of many in WWII that gave it their all, then some, then paid with their lives through stress and exhaustion taking them outside combat. Another was Teddy Roosevelt Jr, who was the senior man on the beach on D-Day and organized success under heavy fire out of a clusterfuck as currents swept half the force past their designated LZs. Won the Medal of Honor, Died of a heart attack from stress 3 months later.
Another unsung hero was Richard Nixon, who had a distinguished war history with South Pacific Air Transport Command (SCAT). Which was the formidable logistic arm of the Navy which created nearly instant opertaing bases and all the supplies for MacArthur's leapfrogging strategy. After the Japs realized how important they were, they became, with aircraft carriers, prime targets.
Nor is intelligence necessarily the best qualifier for a President. Nixon was a very smart man, and an evil one.
Posted by Hector
The verdict on Nixon is still out, Hector. As the 70s receed and we see Nixon's accomplishments endure and their impact, plus him being right on matters like communist infiltration, and the witch hunt friends and relatives of the communists launched was through a biased MSM that they essentially owned and ran.
We see a change in view on Nixon occurring. As a near-great President, done in by enemies out to get him for HUAC succeeding after 25 years of partisan war and use of their media organs, that exploited the flaws they found in the guy. Just as JFK is dropping as the sleaze the MSM syncophants covered up emerges and a picture less of Camelot and more as a lightweight emerges. As scholarship drops Wilson lower while elevating Cleveland and HW Bush.
In his diaries, Nixon wrote of his WWII memories of scraping friends from plane wrecks in pieces, or gathering up those pieces on the ground and thinking even in a right cause, Quakers were right to hate war, but wrong to thing they could stay above it all while other men died - then claim they were unlike the fighters that bled and died for peace - in pretense that pacifists were the ones more for peace.
Nixon was under bombardment once 28 of 30 days. In one, he rode out a bombing in a Dutch farm's powerhouse made of concrete and emerged to a moonscape of 200 new bomb craters and the powerhouse the only standing thing in 200 yards. KIA burials were a near-daily event. Despite that, Nixon never touted his WWII years and was content to have others say he was a supply officer in the rear. He feared he let down his Quaker ancestors in fighting a war. In his later years, he was far more proud of ending the Vietnam War (with honor), detente and SALT with America's two great enemies, and unilaterally ending the American involvement with chemical and germ WMD and initiated those two WMD NPTs. He died thinking he did his Quaker beliefs due justice. A different kind of hero than McCain Sr, or TDR Jr., but the sort America needs in foreign affairs....
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McCain may be short, but we can be pretty sure no one will intimidate him with height. LBJ hated Nixon, Russell, and Truman because none backed down when Johnson tried using his height advantage - just stared him back. Dubya, another fighter jock, made Kerry and Gore look like asses when they tried the "height factor" in debate. "What is Dingell-Norwood??" (unsaid, in Bush body language:)"Aww, fuck off, Gore..".
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There is no f*&$ing way that McCain will ever win the general - every single card is stacked against him. There's a war. A bad economy. The party holding the presidency usually changes hands after 8 years. And now this too?
If the Democrats can't win this election, they might as well give up.
Posted by Al
Yes! And supporters of Black Messiah will consider the Democrat Convention his de-facto Inauguration. Pity all the stuff suppressed so he could beat the Hillary Machine will come out.
The stakes are pretty high, because if Dems can't win this one with identity & victim politics at the forefront, they have to go back and join Republicans in retooling for the 21st Century. The 60s were a long, long time ago.
How is being ejected from a fighter plane differ in its effect on the spine from a regular sky-dive? Don't people do hundreds of those without suffering spinal injury? Just curious.
I guess Nixon's war "exploits" make up for his perversion of this country's laws, which he had taken an oath to execute faithfully. As I remember, he specifically authorized the payment of money to common criminals to keep them from implicating members of his administration in political crimes. Only his pardon kept him out of jail. He was a true Republican.
How is being ejected from a fighter plane differ in its effect on the spine from a regular sky-dive? Don't people do hundreds of those without suffering spinal injury?
The goal is to get the pilot safely clear of the plane, which is done using considerable force. I believe the actual "ejecting" part is similar to being shot out of a cannon.
Dubya, another fighter jock, made Kerry and Gore look like asses when they tried the "height factor" in debate. "What is Dingell-Norwood??" (unsaid, in Bush body language:)"
WTF does that even mean???
Bush a fighter jock? Wingnut reality check.
And the only, only people that thought Bush Jr. trumped Kerry in the debates are his jock sniffers in the party, the press, and that dwindling percentage that still pees in their drawers every time Bush Jr. says "9.....11".
This can't be the real Chris Ford, the veteran who fought General Tojo's best at Second Manassas.
How is being ejected from a fighter plane differ in its effect on the spine from a regular sky-dive? Don't people do hundreds of those without suffering spinal injury? Just curious.
Just guessing, but it probably has more to do with the aircraft's high speed combined with the speed at which the pilot is thrown from the aircraft, rather than the impact the pilot makes with the ground after his parachute (one hopes) deploys.
But if McCain lost height as a consequence of his ejection(s) it probably has more to do with breaking three limbs, landing in a lake, being fished out by locals and subjected to beating/stabbing, and then receiving substandard medical care followed by years of confinement and torture. He can't raise his arms over his head anymore; he may not be able to stand up completely straight anymore, either.
Pity all the stuff suppressed so he could beat the Hillary Machine will come out.
Hillary Clinton has been using kid gloves, hasn't she? And clearly Obama must be hiding deep, dark secrets that we know nothing about, because absolutely no one on the right has tried to mine his life for dirt, yet, at all.
if Dems can't win this one with identity & victim politics
You know, anyone who thinks the mere act of fielding a really intelligent, eloquent, and skilled candidate is inherently "identity & victim politics" if that candidate is black, isn't someone I want to be looking to for advice.
Kinda short, and none too bright:
"Naval Academy Trivia: McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class."
And given the postion of his dad at the time, I bet he really did worse. Another guy who was born on third and thinks he hit a triple.
I agree. But don't you wish it was a third party we were electing? I can't stand either of them, to be frank. What I mean exactly is I am frustrated. I am young, and I am frustrated with what I see around me.
Like you, AKBY, I'm not happy with either party nor their candidates - at this point, I'm going to sit out the election rather than vote for any of the three major candidates.
However, I don't really wish it was a third party either - at least any third party that actually exists. All the actual third parties I aware of are really freak shows. A theoretical third party, sure, but none of the actual third parties. Politics for me is fun as a passtime, but depressing in terms of candidates to vote for.
Nice revisionist history on Nixon, chris ford. Doubtless he was a complicated man. The country has always know this. We've also long been aware of the man's sentimental side and the fact that he was at times deeply troubled and deeply conflicted.
I'll also grant that there were moments of true greatness in Nixon's presidency--opening to China actually being a far lesser accomplishment than the Clean Air and Clean Water acts.
But saying Nixon ended the Vietnam War is just a lie. While the drawdown of troops may have begun during his second administration, it was preceded by an enormous escalation. And we should not forget his "secret" plan to end the war in 1968, which was really a secret round of negotiations with the Viet Cong in which he convinced them that they'd get a better deal with him after his election than with Johnson. He thereby undermined the peace talks the Johnson administration was currently engaged in and succeeded in prolonging the war. Is this the "honor" you speak of? For this action alone Nixon should probably have been prosecuted for treason.
The list really just goes on and on. He didn't wake up every day and eat a live baby for breakfast and feast on the blood of virgins, but the man was a criminal who corrupted the US government. Deal with it.
But saying Nixon ended the Vietnam War is just a lie.
He ended the war, the POWs were returned in 1973, lest you forget. The war had been Vietnamized, the later attacks by the Commies in violation of the peace treaty and turned back by the S Vietnamese as long as they were supplied by the US. The S Vietnamese lost when the Democrats backstabbed them on supplies.
While the drawdown of troops may have begun during his second administration, it was preceded by an enormous escalation.
Incorrect. He was drawing down troops and casualties from the start.
He thereby undermined the peace talks the Johnson administration was currently engaged in and succeeded in prolonging the war. Is this the "honor" you speak of? For this action alone Nixon should probably have been prosecuted for treason.
Military historians dismiss the Viet Minh - LBJ discussions as "pure show". The Commies did not get serious about peace until Nixon mined their harbors and sent the B-52s after them. If there were to be prosecutions over treason, the general response at the time would be "folks like Jane Fonda, Teddy Kennedy, MLK and his communist backers, John Kerry" 1st!
but the man was a criminal who corrupted the US government. Deal with it.
Posted by Rob Mac
No President violated law with as much relish as FDR did. The man was blatantly violating American neutrality law, firing on German vessels, opening all overseas mails and cables 6 months before the war started. He had extensive FBI dossiers on his political enemies and pioneered the political use of the IRS against his foes. Truman, JFK, RFK, LBJ all did worse with laws than Nixon did. Especially LBJ&RFK. The difference is that the Establishment protected the others, while their war to bring down Nixon had started in the late 1940s.
Re: Nixon
The South Vietnamese government were a bunch of filthy collaborators who deserved to be backstabbed. The soldiers of Thieu and Ky deserved what they got for betraying their country to the oligarchic imperialists. It's an everlasting shame on this country that we always preferred to get in bed with scumbags like Thieu, Somoza, Batista and the Contras rather than their enemies that were infinitely better.
As for the peace treaty, it was always a sham, the country of South Vietnam had no right to exist and therefore its government had no legal or moral standing to sign treaties, and any treaties they did sign were worthless and could be broken at will.
Nixon was a Cold War hawk- I loathe what the Cold War had become by the late '60s, and therefore I loathe the Nixon presidency.
Let's not forget that Nixon supported the invasion of Cambodia, interventions in Laos, the overthrow of Allende, the Somoza regime in Nicaragua. What a POS.
Ford: "The S Vietnamese lost when the Democrats backstabbed them on supplies."
Bullshit.
Grow a brain, Ford.
Comments closed April 14, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
How dare you attack a War Hero.
Posted by tinisoli | March 31, 2008 5:22 PM