The Coffee Primary

The new wine track / beer track:

Perhaps, but coffee and class have merged into political shorthand as commentators, campaign operatives, and bloggers alike try to make sense of this highly caffeinated campaign season. In several primaries and caucuses, Obama has shown strength among white-collar professionals with a college degree - the so-called "Starbucks Demo crats" - while Clinton has won support from blue-collar workers with a high school degree, dubbed "Dunkin' Donuts Democrats."

The trouble here is that I'm pretty sure the real Starbucks/Dunkin' cleavage in the U.S. is based more on region than on class. Dunkin' Donuts is from New England and you see many more outlets there than you see elsewhere. Conversely, there are only five Dunkin' Donuts in Houston compared to bajillions of Starbuckses.

Comments

Also Starbucks is the middle-brow, corporate brand. Us true upscale-hipster-elitists-coffee snobs out here in the NW only drink it if there is nothing else handy, local shops, Petes or Tullys are preferred:-)

Posted by Eric k | March 20, 2008 2:19 PM

Man, that's some seriously out of touch commentary. I'd take a cup of Dunkies over a Starbucks crappucino any day. And I think it's pretty clear that on most of the other asinine metrics, I fall into the overeducated effete liberal elite category.

Posted by br | March 20, 2008 2:22 PM

What does that make people who drink the free, crappy coffee at work? Republicans? :-(

Posted by Anonymous | March 20, 2008 2:23 PM

Why do yankees hate Krispy Kreme?

Posted by dry_fish | March 20, 2008 2:25 PM

Maybe. But my town used to have a Dunkin' Donuts. It went out of business because were' a latte drinking crowd. We were given a choice and chose. Our cleavage is now between "Evil Corporate Starbucks" and "Cool Locally- Owned Cafe That Adheres to Fair Trade Practice." Admittedly, that's not normal.

Posted by fostert | March 20, 2008 2:26 PM

If a Democrat drinks beer from a microbrewery, to what track does he or she belong?

And what about people who don't drink coffee?

Posted by Matthew Struhar | March 20, 2008 2:27 PM

Starbucks is like McDonald's - don't go there unless there is nothing else around and you just have to have coffee. It's not great, but it's dependable and at least you know what you're getting. Eric is right - Peet's and Tully's is far superior. Here in Seattle, the best coffee comes from independent places like Herkimer's and Cafe Ladro. (If you stop into Herkimer's this afternoon, come over and say hi to me! I'll be the guy with the laptop.)

And, after having lived in Boston for many years, I can testify that Dunkin' Donuts coffee is some of the worst goddamn swill on the market. Their plan to go big on coffee drinks is some sort of Rovian "exploit our weakness until people are brainwashed that it's our strength" strategy. Of course, this is a place that has the word "Donuts" right in the name and they can barely make a decent donut. So.

Posted by Woody Bombay | March 20, 2008 2:29 PM

Getting back to the underlying point behind the Starbucks/DD dispute, does anyone actually know a single working class man who would pull the lever for HRC? I have never met one.

Posted by laborlibert | March 20, 2008 2:31 PM

Doesn't Sen. Clinton's support of old white ladies mainly take tea? As do, I suppose, Sen. Obama's anglophilic elitist supporters.

Posted by David B. | March 20, 2008 2:31 PM

I doubt many Hillary supporters drink much coffee, period. Caffeine can wreak havoc on the bladder after age 60, especially in women.

Posted by Joe | March 20, 2008 2:32 PM

Two problems here, one is the regional disparities in options, as Matt and Eric k point out, in different ways. Dunkin' Donuts is still predominantly a Northeastern chain, and Seattle and Portland have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to local shops and chains. The other problem is that Dunkin' Donuts prices are set by the local franchises and are often more expensive than those at Starbucks.

As for quality of coffee, Dunkin' Donuts has tired brown beans and sour coffee. Folks who claim they like it really like the copious amounts of sugar and cream that come standard with every cup there. Starbucks coffee isn't spectacular either, but it is better.

When it comes to espresso, an indie shop serving Illy blows both of them away, but when that's not available, both D&D and Starbucks have decent espresso for drinking over ice. Trying to get something off the menu like four shots of espresso over ice at a Dunkin' Donuts can be a frustrating experience though unless you speak Hindi.

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 2:33 PM

I really wish that commentators on this contest would take the time to look carefully at a map. At least Matt mentioned regionalism, but most people seem blissfully unaware that Clinton's support among "Dunkin' Donuts Democrats" seems to fall off sharply once you start heading West.

Posted by DTM | March 20, 2008 2:33 PM

Dunkin Donuts' coffee is passable, but the bagels make up for it. They have a good selection as long as it's not too late in the day. Starbucks' selection of baked goods is junk....too sugary, too greasy, it makes me want to throw up just thinking about it. No contest for me.

Posted by Hector | March 20, 2008 2:35 PM

They both suck. Coffee Connection was way better, back before Starbucks bought them out. I was going to write, "Hey Matt, was that before your time?", but Wikipedia tells me it was in 1994, when Matt was 13. Man, I feel old. Mm, coffee. Time to go to Au Bon Pain (not great, but much better than Charbucks or Dunkin Donuts).

Oh, and what Woody Bombay said.

Posted by Mark in Harvard Square | March 20, 2008 2:35 PM

I can testify that Dunkin' Donuts coffee is some of the worst goddamn swill on the market.

Preach on: especially the default 'double cream(er), double sugar', which means you get a cup of syrupy watered down crap, as opposed to the burnt cup of hot milk with coffee at St. Arbucks.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | March 20, 2008 2:36 PM

Of course, in L.A. we have zero Dunkin Donuts outlets, and yet Hillary still won. Personally I never drink coffee, but in addition to Starbucks there seem to be a lot of other places here, too.

Posted by Adam Villani | March 20, 2008 2:40 PM

I'm from Michigan, and I love Krispy Kreme. Luckily my BMI is 24.

Starbucks coffee has too much sugar and milk. One of their "coffees" has 480 calories. Take a look at the nutritional info next time you go there.

Posted by stm177 | March 20, 2008 2:40 PM

I just was informed, that apparently there are NO Dunkin Donuts in all of San Diego County, so does that mean that all the voters here are going to vote for Obama, and not for John McCain since there is no place for the working class white male to get his caffeine fix?

Posted by cb | March 20, 2008 2:42 PM

Coffee, mmmmmmmmm.

Tim Hortons is pretty good too, for us midwesterners. Better donuts and bagels than other coffee places.

Posted by Kim | March 20, 2008 2:43 PM

dry_fish: because Krispy Kremes aren't very good donuts. If you must eat from a chain, Winchell's is better. I can't speak for elsewhere - as I've grown older I've been less interested in sweets - but when I was in high school, Kansas City's best glazed donut could be had at Fluffy Fresh at 103rd and State Line Road, right about 7:40am. That's when the business crowd was leaving home on its way to early morning meetings, and the Rockhurst High School crowd was running through on its way to class. They always made sure to have a huge batch of fresh ones at that time. Warm Fluffy Fresh donuts and a small carton of milk made any day brighter.

Oh, and Dunkin Donuts is worthless in the winter, but a summer afternoon at work punctuated by their ice coffee really is fantastic.

Posted by jhupp | March 20, 2008 2:43 PM

What dry_fish said. We need a Krispy Kreme candidate - deep fried and sugar glazed, drinking Maxwell House, two hours dead on a hot plate with coffeemate powdered creamer.

Posted by bjd | March 20, 2008 2:44 PM

Mark in Harvard Square -

I used to live in the North End, and on my walk to work every day I used to stop at the Coffee Connection at the end of Quincy Market and pick up a large. Man, that was good stuff.

Posted by Woody Bombay | March 20, 2008 2:46 PM

Based on their advertising it would appear to be Dunkin Donuts itself that is pushing this idea of a coffee divide.

This may be a matter of the advertising world being centered in the Northeast where there are both Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks, and the divide, while not directly class does seem to have a group orientation. (I think Dunkin Donuts does a lot of business with white collar commuters for whom getting the coffee fast is the big thing).

Posted by Lon | March 20, 2008 2:48 PM

Can't stand Starbucks coffee (nor the price).
DD's iced coffee is pretty good; and the triple chocolate muffin is quite awesome.

For anybody planning a poll breakdown, I'm an
Obama supporter these days (especially after the
speeches of the last 3 days - finally, someone
prepared to talk about the opportunity cost of
pouring $1T of Chinese loans down the Iraqi hole).

Posted by Richard Cownie | March 20, 2008 2:49 PM

You must all be to young to remember the coffee machines that were prevalent before Starbucks took over the world. The highlight of the beverage was seeing if you made a hand by looking at the two cards on the bottom of the cup after you were finished. For as bad as Starbucks is, it is an orde of magnitude better than the liquid that was dispensed from those machines.

I prefer Tim Horton's and therefore vote NDP.
However, if Obama shows up at my house with a pound of Intelligentsia beans I would consider supporting him.

Posted by Gilbert Perreault | March 20, 2008 2:51 PM

"What does that make people who drink the free, crappy coffee at work? Republicans? :-("

Yes. If its free, they'll be happy to take advantage. Its in the genes, along with bathroom stalls, diapers, and being intimidated by stocky black men.

Posted by An Outhouse | March 20, 2008 2:55 PM

Yes, I agree with the elite snobs that Peet's is the best chain, and once upon a time Coffee Connection was the best. But Starbucks, at least in Massachusetts, has no.2 all to itself. Dunkin', Au Bon Pain, Seattles Best - they all serve pretty crappy coffee. Starbucks barista drinks are lousy, but their regular American style coffee is still one of the best around. I'm confused why stm177 seems unaware that you can drink coffee black.

In Mass though I agree that the Starbucks/Dunkin divide is probably a decent proxy for Obama/Clinton voters. Or as decent as any of these stupid oversimplifications ever is.

Posted by vanya | March 20, 2008 2:57 PM

A little vignette:

When I was just a pup, I worked on a campaign run by James Carville (the pre-1992, not overexposed pal-o-Russert Carville). He went on an unforgettable, profanity-laced rant one day --"This is what's WRONG with the Democratic party." -- after another staffer referred in writing to Dunkin' Donuts as "Duncan Donuts."

Posted by B-man | March 20, 2008 3:00 PM

Dunkin Donuts have the best breakfast food. I can say this authoritatively after a systematic survey of fast food breakfast offerings. Sausage egg and cheese on a poppy seed bagel is the tastiest way to start the day if you have to buy breakfast.

Posted by Margaret | March 20, 2008 3:00 PM

I s'pose it's worth mentioning that Dunkin Donuts is owned by the Carlyle Group.

Posted by Brautigan | March 20, 2008 3:00 PM

Krispy Kremes aren't very good donuts. If you must eat from a chain, Winchell's is better. - jhupp

My parents claim Krispy Kreme doughnuts are excellent, but I can't have them as I'm allergic to milk. Winchell's used to have some dairy free doughnuts (dunno if they do anymore), and they were decent, but not as good as the local place where I grew up.

As far as coffee's concerned -- I dunno: Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks are both ... ok ... but I think Obama voters would be more likely to drink Dunkin' Donuts (which might just have some ironic hipster appeal) and HRC voters would be more likely to drink Starbucks actually.

BTW -- what Dunkin Donuts serves are very, very good, interestingly shaped single serving breads. They are very good -- but they are not bagels, which are much chewier and alltogether a different product entirely.

Posted by DAS | March 20, 2008 3:02 PM

"Its in the genes, along with bathroom stalls, diapers, and being intimidated by stocky black men."

After all the grief Obama's grandmother has gotten this week, you want to accuse her of being a Republican now?

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 3:03 PM

I suppose Matt has seen Harvey Araton today.

Posted by 4jkb4ia | March 20, 2008 3:04 PM

Trying to get something off the menu like four shots of espresso over ice at a Dunkin' Donuts can be a frustrating experience though unless you speak Hindi. - Fred

Sheeze, Fred. Have you no cultural sensitivity?

The language you'd need to speak is Gujurati, not Hindi.

Posted by DAS | March 20, 2008 3:05 PM

Hector: Dunkin Donuts' coffee is passable, but the bagels make up for it.

The best thing I can say about their donuts is that they're not as disgusting as everything else they sell. But as bagels go, I'd say they're pretty mediocre.

Woody: I used to live in the North End, and on my walk to work every day I used to stop at the Coffee Connection at the end of Quincy Market and pick up a large

Ah, the North End. I used to work there (also before 1994) but I don't recall where I used to go for coffee. I guess for the most part that was before I put any effort into developing a nice healthy caffeine addiction. :-)

Gilbert Perreault: You must all be to young to remember the coffee machines that were prevalent before Starbucks took over the world... For as bad as Starbucks is, it is an order of magnitude better than the liquid that was dispensed from those machines.

We used to have one of those machines in my office. I agree, Starbucks coffee shines in comparison. Then again, it was only like 65 cents a cup, and I didn't have to leave the office, and you might even get twenty-one, in which case, uh, nothing.

I thought the descriptions of the different kinds of coffee you could get were the best part:
Espresso: "A small cup of very strong coffee"
Cappucino: "Espresso with milk and chocolate"
or something like that.

Memories... Sure beats thinking about politics. *sigh*

Posted by Mark in Harvard Square | March 20, 2008 3:06 PM

I s'pose it's worth mentioning that Dunkin Donuts is owned by the Carlyle Group. - Brautigan

When did this happen? And is it, in any way, connected with the replacement of Baskin Robbins' wonderful daiquiri ice (which tasted as if it were made with the best of Dominican rums) with the crappy, toxic-sludge green stuff they are selling in its place nowadays?

Posted by DAS | March 20, 2008 3:07 PM

"over the next three weeks, I'll probably be more interested in Western Conference regular season games than the N.C.A.A. men's tournament...Better quality of basketball, just as intense, fewer self-righteous coaches and no Billy Packer."

Posted by 4jkb4ia | March 20, 2008 3:08 PM

Gilbert,

There is a regional factor there too. I'm 42, but grew up in Seattle, we've had Starbucks since 1972.

Another good regional test is what you consider it means to order simply a coffee. To me it means simple black coffee, if I wanted a bunch of crap in it I'd order it that way. The first time I was in Boston (1990 I think) I stopped at a Dunkin Donuts at a T station and ordered a coffee, they handed me the cup I took one sip and practically spit it out, I went back and said "I ordered a coffee, not cream and sugar with a little coffee mixed in" they said that is a coffee, I said no, it isn't, give me a black coffee!

Maybe if Dunkin Donuts hadn't been passing off swill as coffee for decades people in NE wouldn't need to hide it with cream and sugar!

Posted by Eric k | March 20, 2008 3:09 PM

"Sheeze, Fred. Have you no cultural sensitivity?"

Hey, I don't fault successful Indian entrepreneurs from hiring their extended families: it makes sense from an immigration perspective and from a tax perspective. I'd do the same thing if I were in their place and had the scratch to buy a D&D franchise. But the reality is that it can be a pain in the ass to order from them.

"The language you'd need to speak is Gujurati, not Hindi."

Depends on the franchise.

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 3:12 PM

In Philly, go anywhere that serves locally roasted La Colombe. Incredibly delicious coffee.

Posted by drjimcooper | March 20, 2008 3:12 PM

I apologize if I sound like a spoilsport, but the real trouble here is that Democrats seem to be falling prey to the (usually Republican) strategy of defining class on the ridiculous basis of taste and brand associations rather than on real, shared economic interests.

Surely one of the reasons that many Democrats and other lefties are uneasy about Sen. Clinton is that her (Democratic!) supporters sometimes use the old latte-sippin' volvo-drivin' over-educated 'elites' canard. Whatever criticisms of Obama are legitimate ones, it's troubling for a Democrat to see republican-sounding critiques coming from other Democrats.

Posted by Sean R | March 20, 2008 3:13 PM

I'm hungry.

Posted by former deaniac | March 20, 2008 3:13 PM

I went back and said "I ordered a coffee, not cream and sugar with a little coffee mixed in" they said that is a coffee, I said no, it isn't, give me a black coffee!

Yeah. "Light and sweet" is the term, at least in NYC. To anyone from outside the Northeast, this is the coffee equivalent of a martini that's one-half vermouth.

Posted by James Gary | March 20, 2008 3:14 PM

I drink tea, which ought to make me a Clinton supporter. Yet somehow I don't like her.

The best breakfast spot in Boston is Carberry's, an independent with sensational baked goods, excellent tea, and probably good coffee for all I know. But I moved to the suburbs and can't go often. (We could give directions to our apartment by the Dunkin Donuts--get off the bus after the third Dunkin Donuts on the right.)

In defense of Starbucks: As a non-coffee drinker I was long at the mercy of shops that would list "tea" meaning a cup of tepid water and a Tetley (aka tea made from wet socks) tea bag, and "hot chocolate" meaning a cup of tepid water and directions to where the packs of Swiss Miss were. As Starbucks, which has decent tea and hot chocolate, spread, places started bucking up their non-coffee offerings, and I have been greatful.

Also, when my daughter was one we went to San Francisco and it became clear she could recognize, not just bakeries she knew from home, but an abstraction of "what sort of storefront is likely to hold cookies for me and tea for mommy?"

Posted by Deborah | March 20, 2008 3:15 PM

The coffee at the Dunkin' Donuts in the Santiago, Chile airport was quite good.

Posted by Al | March 20, 2008 3:18 PM

Sean R.,

The Republican view is that all Americans have "real, shared economic interests". Dems ought to try looking at things that way sometime, instead of stoking resentment against bogeymen (e.g., "corporations", "the rich") in their attempts to pander.

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 3:18 PM

DAS,

You're probably right, out here in Portland the Starbucks customer would be very much the prototypical Hillary voter.

As for Donut quality vs Bagels and so on, again us real elitists go to one of the local organic French bakeries for chocalate croissants! The 2nd greatest French invention after Topless Beaches (go to the Pakistan thread for context)

Posted by Eric k | March 20, 2008 3:19 PM

The trouble here is that I'm pretty sure the real Starbucks/Dunkin' cleavage in the U.S. is based more on region than on class.

Don't leave out the Tim Horton's, or you'll hurt our resident, foreign Obamaphobe's feelings.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 20, 2008 3:24 PM

FWIW, I'll mention another southern coffee favorite: Community Coffee.

Posted by dry_fish | March 20, 2008 3:25 PM

Someone has probably already said this, but I think the coffee is code-word for liberalism. Duh, right? The point trying to be made is that liberalism for the Starbucks Dems is the primary goal. It's the point. You go to Starbucks to get coffee.

Dunkin Donuts is a donuts place. You don't go there for cofee, but maybe you'll grab a cup. Coffee is sold there, but it's secondary. It compliments, but it isn't necessary. That's blue-collar liberalism.

At least that's what's being implied.

Posted by socctty | March 20, 2008 3:27 PM

"Its in the genes, along with bathroom stalls, diapers, and being intimidated by stocky black men."

After all the grief Obama's grandmother has gotten this week, you want to accuse her of being a Republican now?

My apologies to Obama's gramma. I was alluding to this:

"The Merritt Island Republican was accused of peering over a stall in a men's public park restroom, then agreeing to pay $20 to perform oral sex on Titusville police Officer Danny Kavanaugh... ... Allen's concern about getting robbed by a "stocky black man," who turned out to be Kavanaugh"

http://www.local6.com/news/14552834/detail.html

Posted by An Outhouse | March 20, 2008 3:33 PM

How can you tell the difference between DD coffee and dishwater? Dishwater has more coffee in it. DD tastes like somebody poured a ton of cream and sugar into grandpa's bathwater. Then again, Starbucks was decent until about 2000/2001 or so, when they became spread thin, starting treating their employees like crap and self-cannibalizing. Now it's just burnt crap with too much milk. Their green tea lattes are decent though.

Posted by Reality Man | March 20, 2008 3:34 PM

Eric K.

Yes you had Starbucks in the 70's but it was a local chain much like Tim Hortons was at the time. Starbucks didn't expand until after 1987 by which point there were already 300 Tim Hortons locations one of which I believe was in Vancouver. Tim Hortons is more of a Canadian phenomenon than a New England one.

My point was getting coffee use to mean going down to the lobby and putting fifty cents into a machine that dumped instant coffee and hot water into a paper cup. People who complain about the horrible taste of Starbucks and other chains don't seem to realize how much better their product is than what it replaced in the vast majority of the country. To them Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts is the swill in the paper cup because the chains have been ubiquitous during their entire adulthood.

Posted by Gilbert Perreault | March 20, 2008 3:35 PM

In my post-lunch comedown from copious amounts of carbohydrates, I realize that I come off as MR. OBVIOUS. My apologies.

Posted by socctty | March 20, 2008 3:36 PM

OT Disclaimer!!!
Kudo's to Woody for the Coffee Connection, but it would have been a Dunkin' establishment if the North Enders didn't burn the previous one down. If that is not vitriolic coffee-hatin', I don't know what is.
socctty--no. It is regionalism, but for a new englander: dunkin' donuts is for sweet, fatty caffiene. with or without donuts.

Posted by colleeniem | March 20, 2008 3:38 PM

"The coffee at the Dunkin' Donuts in the Santiago, Chile airport was quite good.

Posted by Al | March 20, 2008 3:18 PM"

And the donuts at Dunkin' Donuts in Santiago (in malls in and near La Vehesa, not sure about the airport) are better than in the US. Manjar!

I'm agreeing with Al way too much today. Must be all the Dayquil.

Posted by Reality Man | March 20, 2008 3:40 PM

Gilbert,

True, but the larger point is that just like with MicroBrewed beer, even before the current craze for good beer we had Henry Weinhards instead of Bud, not great but a cut above, likewise we had a higher standard for coffee, so even if you couldn't get to Pike Place for Starbucks, the standards for coffee in general were higher. Shoot, my Dad worked in the federal shipyard and they had a dedicated admin who kept the fresh coffee brewing. We pretty much never had the crappy machines your talking about except for as the occasional oddity.

Posted by Eric k | March 20, 2008 3:43 PM

Fred | March 20, 2008 3:12 PM,

I probably shoulda put a smily-face you you'd know I was making a bit of a witz.

Posted by DAS | March 20, 2008 3:46 PM

Obama's core base of support is really the Intelligensia Democrats.

http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/about/ourcompany

Posted by TH | March 20, 2008 3:47 PM

When I went to college at Brown University, the real class divide was Dunkin' Donuts vs. Peet's. But they didn't have Starbucks in New Englans then, anyhow.

Posted by jonp72 | March 20, 2008 3:53 PM

SoCalJustice,

You are welcome to continue pretending your centrist candidates are liberals, but I prefer candidates who actually support universal healthcare, progressive taxes and gay marriage.
How is the dollar doing these days?

Posted by Gilbert Perreault | March 20, 2008 3:55 PM

Trying to get something off the menu like four shots of espresso over ice at a Dunkin' Donuts can be a frustrating experience though unless you speak Hindi. - Fred

Sheeze, Fred. Have you no cultural sensitivity?

The language you'd need to speak is Gujurati, not Hindi.

No, it's Brazilian Portuguese.

Republicans don't drink coffee for breakfast - they drink diet Coke. A horrible but true fact.

Posted by vanya | March 20, 2008 4:00 PM

All you DD haters realize that you can actually order your coffee to spec, right? It's not as if it starts out preloaded with milk and sugar, which they extract for those who prefer it black.

Anyway, having grown up in Boston, my first coffee was from DD, and I'm still a rabid fan. I worked for Starbucks, too, right after they bought Coffee Connection and deceitfully adopted the Frapuccino as their own invention.

In Boston the difference between the two is really obviously symbolically loaded: Starbucks is for people sitting in the classrooms at Harvard and MIT, Dunkin Donuts is for the guys fitting the pipes behind the walls. Needless to say, this in no way reflects reality, which is clear if you just open your eyes when you're standing in line at either establishment. Still, it resonates as "real" to people, even against their own experiences. I'd bet that it's this way outside Boston, too.

I think, actually, that in Boston the real distinction is between people who are from there and grow up on DD (they like it) and those who relocate there from other places (they prefer Starbucks).

For what it's worth, I myself hate Starbucks coffee, import DD coffee to L.A. from home, drink neither wine nor beer, and I voted for Obama.

Posted by km | March 20, 2008 4:10 PM

Who's pretending anything, Gilbert?

Obama is against gay marriage and progessive taxes? Since when? His policies are exactly the same as Hillary's.

It's funny. I consider myself a centrist Dem. I voted for Obama and support him even though I do not agree with all of his - or any of the candidates - positions.

But he gets attacked by Tim K for being part of the Kos/Move On crowd, attacked by you (and the Petey-wing of the party) for being too centrist/independent/Republican.

Looks like he's fashioned a winning coalition - spanning the spectrum of the party, including independents - that none of the other candidates had been able to do.

How is the dollar doing these days?

Um, not good.

Your point? That's one of the many reasons that Democrats (some of us, anyway) are trying to win this election, rather than ruin the one chance we have by ceding the race to a candidate that is not only losing to Obama but has fairly high nationwide negatives.

Posted by SoCalJustice | March 20, 2008 4:13 PM

WTF with the coffee snobbery? Come on, Dunkin' Donuts coffee isn't that bad. It's better than their donuts (and way better than their bagels), and it's better than Starbucks burnt beans.

DD's coffee isn't great, but it's serviceable.

Posted by Bragan | March 20, 2008 4:13 PM

I'm hungry.
--former deaniac

Try the McCain and Purim thread.

Posted by Deborah | March 20, 2008 4:20 PM

Forget Starbucks, Dunkin', Caribou, KK, and all the indie coffee joints. I'd rather just buy coffee beans at Trader Joe's, put them in my Grind n' Brew coffeepot, and make extra to take along in a thermos to work.

Posted by low-tech cyclist | March 20, 2008 4:26 PM

Sigh. Too bad there isn't a candidate for us Intelligentsia Republicans this time around.

Posted by Chris | March 20, 2008 4:27 PM

Congratulations, Matt, on using the correct plural for "Starbucks," "Starbuckses." This is real progress for you. Do note that the plural of "Dunkin' Donuts" is, technically, "Dunkin' Donutses."

Posted by rm | March 20, 2008 4:32 PM

This blog is great. I've learned a ton about the strange, horrible ways of you quasi-Americans on the East Coast. Like this coffee thing -- seriously, when you go to a Dunkin Donuts and ask for "coffee," they give you coffee that already has cream and sugar in it? That's insane. How do they know how much cream and sugar I want? If you want a latte, ask for a latte. When I say "coffee," there better not be anything in that cup other than coffee.

Maybe this explains why I'm always reading in East Coast media about how Starbucks sells coffee for $4 a cup. No, they don't. Starbucks sells coffee for about $1.75 a cup. I drink it all the time. Starbucks sells espresso-based drinks for $4 a cup, but a "cup of coffee" ain't that expensive.

Posted by too many steves | March 20, 2008 4:32 PM

Working-class Tim Russert once told me that in Buffalo, they drink dirt mixed with hot water spiked with whiskey.

Posted by asl | March 20, 2008 4:37 PM

Sorry to be off topic. Rumor has it that Edwards will endorse Clinton on Jay Leno tonight.

Posted by Micheline | March 20, 2008 4:47 PM

Bajillions of Starbucks indeed!

Driving along Ventura Blvd. yesterday, I passed a drive-thru Starbucks. Less than a quarter of a mile later, I passed a non-drive-thru Starbucks. And two miles past that, another Starbucks. Not quite a mile further west, yet another...

My favorite, though, is in a small shopping center in Calabassas. There is a free-standing Starbucks there. Across the parking lot, inside the supermarket, is... another Starbucks!

What are the odds?

Posted by Roddy McCorley | March 20, 2008 4:55 PM

We've got plenty of Starbucks near me. And I'm an Obama supporter, white collar, pretty intelligent, homeowning, young, tech-savvy. And I drink Dunkin Donuts on an almost daily basis. It's not class, and it's not regionalism, either. Dunkin Donuts is just better.

Posted by jbryan | March 20, 2008 4:59 PM

Time to clarify a few things.

1) If you want to order a black coffee at Dunkin' Donuts, you have to use their special lingo for it: "black coffee". "Regular" means you'll get it with cream and sugar. In Starbucks this isn't an issue, since they always give you your coffee black and make you put any cream or sugar in it yourself (in at least one Starbucks -- 480 Park Ave? -- they don't even give you the coffee. They just give you a cup and you have to walk over to the urns and fill it up yourself).

2) Coffee at Starbucks doesn't cost $4. Neither do espresso drinks for that matter. With local taxes, my iced quad espresso (four shots of espresso over ice) is about $2.72 -- about a dollar cheaper than it would be if manage to successfully order it at Dunkin' Donuts. Only when you order drinks with milk in them (e.g., Lattes) do you start hitting the $4 range at Starbucks.

3) "Republicans don't drink coffee for breakfast - they drink diet Coke. A horrible but true fact."

That sounds like a Texas/Southwest thing. I get the desire for a cold drink on a hot summer morning, when you can have a few shots of espresso over ice, why waste your time with Diet Coke?

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 5:04 PM

Fred,
You wrote that
The Republican view is that all Americans have "real, shared economic interests".

Fair enough. This is a formidable (and oft-made) claim, but I would hesitate to be too sure about universally-shared econ. interests in light of fact that we have a highly-overvalued stock market at the same time that many working class people are feeling a recession.

Also, what about the response that we have real shared cultural interests and to try to stoke resentment against so-called cultural elites is equally, or in my mind, worse, pandering?

Posted by Sean R | March 20, 2008 5:16 PM

seriously, when you go to a Dunkin Donuts and ask for "coffee," they give you coffee that already has cream and sugar in it?

As someone who grew up in NH and lives in MA, I can categorically answer - no, they don't. Maybe in the more benighted parts of Southie, Everett or Lowell they do that, not in most of New England.

Posted by vanya | March 20, 2008 5:20 PM

The reason for the confusion is that I think this idea was stolen from Canada. In the 2006 Canadian federal election Canadian political strategiest Warren Kinsella said that Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's appealed to the Tim Horton's crowd, whereas Liberal leader Paul Martin appealed to the Starbucks crowd. Tim Horton's is a donut/coffee shop which is a Canadian icon. The contrast between Harper and Tim Horton's versus Martin and Starbucks became part of the campaign narrative. (Kinsella is a Liberal himself, but was publically supporting the Conservatives in that campaign.) Anyway, it sounds like someone was trying to recreate this idea in America, but it doesn't really work, since Tim Horton's has no obvious equivilant in America, whereas the comparison made perfect sense in Canada, and helped to shape the narrative of a winning campaign.

Posted by rainmaker | March 20, 2008 5:21 PM

If you want to order a black coffee at Dunkin' Donuts, you have to use their special lingo for it: "black coffee". "Regular" means you'll get it with cream and sugar.

I've been going to DDs for 30 years, from the mountains of New Hampshire to the shores of RI, and from Boston to Pittsfield - I've never been just handed a coffee with cream and sugar in it - they've always asked me in advance how I wanted it, every time. Maybe I just never thought to say "regular" when I meant "black", New Englanders just take it for granted that if you want "black" you say "black."

Posted by GlenW | March 20, 2008 5:32 PM

Dunkin Donuts coffee - hands down. How Starbucks managed to charge a premium on its bitter brew is Example A of good marketing pushing a lousy product. My brother in San Francisco was ecstatic when Dunkin Donuts started selling their coffee on their website. Prior to that, he would have to head east on business to get his Dunkin Donuts fix.

Also, given that Starbucks had its greatest expansion during the Clinton 90's, it's one of the dumber examples (of many) by the media to say Clinton's crowd prefers Dunkin Donuts. Were these Joe Six-pack types hanging out with the Clintons at Martha's Vineyard?

Posted by KXB | March 20, 2008 5:34 PM

Two things...

1. I prefer my coffee like I prefer my Presidential candidates. Really black and too hot to let near my crotch.

2. Anyone that puts cream or sugar in their coffee needs to be stopped immediately. That is for chi-chi men.

Posted by Ngyen | March 20, 2008 5:39 PM

Dunkin Donuts coffee - hands down. How Starbucks managed to charge a premium on its bitter brew is Example A of good marketing pushing a lousy product.

Example A of someone who either doesn't really like coffee or is just insane. Preferring DD coffee over Starbucks is like preferring Miller Lite over Sierra Nevada. Dunkin Donut's coffee is so weak it's almost like drinking tea.

Posted by vanya | March 20, 2008 5:56 PM

I was married to a blue collar fellow in Alaska, and the Dunkin Donuts ad, where the people are singing "my mouth can't make those words" - all about how they are stymied by the terms "grande" and "venti" etc., well, I'm insulted on my ex-husband's behalf. Alaska - small town Alaska - is rife with drive-by espresso huts and my ex - and the rest of the town - had no problem saying "grande mocha" or whatever. Really. This is not a problem. But Dunkin DOnuts hopes it is.

My ex also doesn't believe that Obama hates white people or America. But lots of people keep hoping he does.

Posted by Phoebe | March 20, 2008 6:13 PM

Sean R.,

"I would hesitate to be too sure about universally-shared econ. interests in light of fact that we have a highly-overvalued stock market at the same time that many working class people are feeling a recession."

This is true if by "a highly-overvalued stock market" you mean a stock market that is trading slightly above its historic average earnings multiple during a bear market, and by "many working class people are feeling a recession" you are referring to the folks about to lose their jobs at Bear Stearns, Citigroup, UBS, etc. So far, this has mainly been a wine-track recession. The guys welding tractors together at the John Deere plant aren't in so much danger of losing their jobs.

"Also, what about the response that we have real shared cultural interests and to try to stoke resentment against so-called cultural elites is equally, or in my mind, worse, pandering?"

Fair enough, though this one is a bipartisan pander. That's why, as Daniel Day-Lewis noted recently (in the NYT Mag profile of him), Andover- and Ivy League-educated George W. Bush talks like a cowboy and holds his hands like a man who swings an ax for a living.

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 6:16 PM

Grew up in Minnesota, where there are prolly two Dunkin' Donuts in the state, and their parking lots are always empty. Tried DD's coffee while staying with friends in Mass, and eww, just disgusting.

"Maybe I just never thought to say "regular" when I meant "black", New Englanders just take it for granted that if you want "black" you say "black.""

And everywhere else in the country (world?), "regular" coffee _is_ black.

Posted by Anna | March 20, 2008 6:31 PM

I can't stand either Starbucks' or Dunkin Donuts' brewed coffee.

For whom do I vote?

Posted by El Cid | March 20, 2008 6:58 PM

"Example A of someone who either doesn't really like coffee or is just insane. "

Last I checked, Dunkin Donuts did not have to sell CDs and books to get people into their stores, nor decide to call it's small serving "tall". Plus whatever coffeehouse ambiance Starbucks may have tried to sell at one time is eliminated by the din of teenagers on their cellphones and the squeeky wheels of strollers.

Posted by KXB | March 20, 2008 7:09 PM

Two things...

1. I prefer my coffee like I prefer my Presidential candidates. Really black and too hot to let near my crotch.

2. Anyone that puts cream or sugar in their coffee needs to be stopped immediately. That is for chi-chi men.

Well, cream is for chi-chi men, indeed. But milk isn't. I like a few drops of non-fat milk. Because I prefer my coffee like I prefer my presidential candidates - black with some white in there, too. Sometimes I even find a Kansan grandmother who is distrustful of black youths to pour the milk in.

Posted by Woody Bombay | March 20, 2008 8:03 PM

Texans like their coffee burnt? Why?

Posted by Lambert Strether, Philadelphia, PA | March 20, 2008 8:10 PM

"You're probably right, out here in Portland the Starbucks customer would be very much the prototypical Hillary voter."

Oh yes: here in California (at least the coastal parts, and a smattering of other places) you imagine that lib Hitler voters prefer Starbucks and Obama voters Peets.

Posted by Linus | March 20, 2008 8:32 PM

The coffee test, huh? So we see that the anti-Mormon bias is not just in the GOP...

Posted by Colatina | March 20, 2008 9:28 PM

"Sorry to be off topic. Rumor has it that Edwards will endorse Clinton on Jay Leno tonight.

Posted by Micheline | March 20, 2008 4:47 PM"

Um, has anyone else heard this? Earlier tonight when I saw Edwards was on Leno, I thought something might be up, but I can't find any confirmation of this rumor.

BTW, Starbucks for the 400-500 calorie 'coffee', Dunkin for black.

Posted by Andruw | March 20, 2008 9:37 PM

"Dunkin Donuts coffee - hands down. How Starbucks managed to charge a premium on its bitter brew is Example A of good marketing pushing a lousy product.

Example A of someone who either doesn't really like coffee or is just insane. Preferring DD coffee over Starbucks is like preferring Miller Lite over Sierra Nevada. Dunkin Donut's coffee is so weak it's almost like drinking tea."

Shorter Vanya: No true Scotsman drinks Dunkin' Donuts coffee with his porridge.

Posted by C.L. | March 20, 2008 10:09 PM

Fred,

Given internet time, this post is probably ancient news by now, but if you are still reading, I'm glad you brought up GWB because I think this can lead to something we might agree on. I'm glad you called me out on "bipartisan pander" because, though I still believe what I said, I may have obama-fied the language too much. I agree that GWB is a bad example of fake common ground. However, Bush was able to become a 'common man' only by repudiating part of himself, and part of his country. When I talk about common ground, I'm thinking (admittedly optimistically) that the supposed elitist in the "blue" state and the supposed cowboys in the "red" states don't represent real people so much as stereotypes that serve to keep the (republican) powers-that-be in control. A bit of disclosure: I'm from a boxy-shaped cowboy-ish state out west and went to a fancy northeastern college. The people i know from each just don't conform to stereotype (even less so with the westerners -- Bush's cowboy pose is infuriating, yes, because, it is a posture, but even more because real cowboys that I knew are almost always way way more mature and thoughful than the smug, swaggering neo/paleo-con). And, the upshot is that I think that dividing people into "red" and "blue" is a (sadly effective) republican strategy (and now, I fear, democratic if recent actions by Sen. Clinton are indicative) to divide us and distract us from real concerns.

And that brings me to economics again, and in this case, I guess I have to still disagree with you 100%. Yes, you probably caught me using buzzwords about the economy and Bear Sterns, etc. But I really really think that it's pretty indisputable that the dollar buys less than it did, that earning power of working people is declining, and that the gap between wealthy and poor is as great as it has been since, I dunno, the 1920s. To use a clumsy metaphor, we are all in the same economic boat, but who does most of the rowing, and who is the first to get a lifeboat when times get rough? Anyway, this has been fun.

Posted by Sean R | March 20, 2008 10:18 PM

I'm agreeing with Al way too much today. Must be all the Dayquil.

I'll doublecheck the blogger handbook, but I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to agree with the, um, trolls on non-politics topics like Chilean donuts and nude beaches.

Posted by Al | March 20, 2008 10:21 PM

Sean R.,

Was offline for some hours, but fear not, I read your comment. I don't find the Bush cowboy pose "infuriating". One of the freedoms we have in America is to reinvent ourselves. A girl who grew up in a strict Greek Orthodox family can always move to New York or San Francisco, become a lesbian performance artist and find people who will accept her new identity. Similarly, a Connecticut Yankee like Bush can become a Texan if he wants.

The "Red state" versus "blue state" dichotomy certainly wasn't created by the GOP -- if it were, they would have made the Dems be the reds. It came from the colors that were used on electoral maps in 2000 or 2004, I forget which. It's a media shorthand, not part of any pernicious plan to divide us as a nation.

The dollar is certainly weaker today that it has been in years; this is part of a readjustment from an unsustainable ten-year run where American consumers, fueled by debt, had been spending more than they earn. But again the effects of this are mainly felt among the wine-track: affluent folks who like to travel to Europe and by imported cheeses. Only a fraction of dollar weakness translates to domestic inflation.

The gap between the wealthy and the poor today, in real terms, is nothing like it was in the 1920s. The poor in the 1920s didn't have cable TV, section 8, Medicaid, federal welfare, etc. There's no comparison. As far as who does most of the rowing in this economy, it's those who have to think for a living. Thinking is hard work, which is why so many people avoid it whenever possible. An investment banker or research chemist works a lot harder than a Wal-Mart greeter.

Who gets the lifeboat first? Depends what lifeboat you are referring to. If the Wal-Mart greeter gets laid off, he'll get unemployment just like the laid off operations supervisor at Bear Stearns will.

---------------------------------------------------

Vanya's analogy of those who prefer Dunkin' coffee to Starbucks (we're talking basic black coffee here, for comparison purposes) to those who prefer Miller to Sierra Nevada was a great one. Sierra Nevada may be one of the biggest 'micro'breweries out there, but their beer is still blows away Miller.

Posted by Fred | March 20, 2008 11:37 PM

Are these coffee chains even in the same leagues as McDonalds when it comes to standardization? My local Dunkin Donuts (1st Avenue and 13th in NYC) seems to have very poor, weak coffee. (David's Bagels across the street is much better, as is the cart at NE 1st and 14th). But I've had better from other locations.

Also, Starbucks' baked goods seem to be very regional. Or at least they were; last time I was in Seattle the menus were almost completely different.

Posted by AlanC9 | March 20, 2008 11:53 PM

As for the topic, Starbucks regular coffee isn't all that great. I don't think I ever see anyone ordering it.

Posted by AlanC9 | March 20, 2008 11:58 PM

Conversely, there are only five Dunkin' Donuts in Houston compared to bajillions of Starbuckses.

Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean Houstonians prefer Starbucks to donuts. They just buy their donuts at Shipley Do-nuts the regional Texan version of Dunkin' Donuts.

http://www.shipleydonuts.ws/

Posted by Kent from Waco | March 21, 2008 12:11 AM

"Are these coffee chains even in the same leagues as McDonalds when it comes to standardization?"

I think there is more variation with a franchise system like Dunkin' Donuts than there is in the corporate-owned shops that comprise Starbucks. Speaking of McDonald's though, in Buenos Aires, they have their own espresso bars in some of them. Not what you might expect: earth tones, wood furniture, pastries served on real plates, etc. I know they are planning on adding espresso/coffee bars in the U.S., but I wonder if they'll go all-out on the decor here too.

Posted by Fred | March 21, 2008 12:42 AM

Wait a minute...I just read this in USA Today recently.

"Starbucks, whose stock is flagging as McDonald's and Dunkin' Donuts sip away at its business, is announcing today at its annual meeting that it will freshly grind beans in-store for its brewed coffee. The move is only one of several intended to lure customers back into the store"

Losing customers to McDonald's! Dunkin' Donuts!

Don't tell Obama.

Posted by ClareA | March 21, 2008 12:53 AM

"(Obama is) attacked by you (and the Petey-wing of the party) for being too centrist/independent/Republican. Looks like he's fashioned a winning coalition"

If I really thought Obama had a significant electability advantage over Clinton, I'd likely swallow my ideological problems with him and be supporting him instead of Clinton.

But instead, it seems as if Obama is Kenyan for Dukakis.

So why not go with the candidate's with the courage to stand up for Democratic policy instead? That's why I'm supporting Clinton.

Posted by Petey | March 21, 2008 2:22 AM

Self-parody, pro-war Petey strikes again! When your new shtick makes people feel sorry for you, you might want to try a new approach. After all, how well did the old one do for Edwards?

"Example A of someone who either doesn't really like coffee or is just insane. Preferring DD coffee over Starbucks is like preferring Miller Lite over Sierra Nevada. Dunkin Donut's coffee is so weak it's almost like drinking tea.

Posted by vanya | March 20, 2008 5:56 PM"

Very true. It's like how people who say they like hard liquor only say they like vodka (and not a certain brand with a distinct flavor like Grey Goose, Ketel One or Absolut... or the horrible Xcellent Vodka from Switzerland), which often just means they like the taste of fruit juices that get mixed with vodka. A lot of DD drinkers would probably spit out a quality cup of Italian espresso. That's strong, bitter and complex, everything that DD coffee isn't.

While it's not true that DD drinkers = Hillary supporters, it is a bit like being a Hillary supporter or believing everything written in the Economist - it lets you feel smarter (wow, I don't go for the cult, I go for experience and health care policy details gleamed from a failed attempt to memorize every factoid in the first Clinton term!).

Posted by Reality Man | March 21, 2008 6:33 AM

I'm sorry, again. I like expensive custom and microbrews, even the 'high gravity' varieties. But I'd rather have Miller Lite than Sierra Nevada. The stuff's just not good, and I have no idea why people like it so much.

Posted by El Cid | March 21, 2008 6:40 AM

"Why do yankees hate Krispy Kreme? "
Posted by dry_fish

Krispy Kreme makes Wonderbread dipped in sugar water, not donuts.

Posted by Njorl | March 21, 2008 9:33 AM

Krispy Kreme makes Wonderbread dipped in sugar water, not donuts.

Posted by Njorl

Whatever you want to call them, they're awesome when they're hot. Oh god! Does this mean I have to support Hillary now?

Posted by El Cid | March 21, 2008 9:38 AM

I dunno, El Cid, do you like tea? The tea drinkers seem to be leaning Obama.

Obama is against gay marriage and progessive taxes? Since when? His policies are exactly the same as Hillary's.

Actually, Obama is a little to the left of Hillary on gay marriage-- he supports full repeal of DOMA, while Hillary supports "partial repeal." I am still not sure what "partial repeal" entails.

Where I live in the Northeast, the nearest Starbucks is an hour or so away, but there are two Dunkin' Donuts within a ten-minute drive. And everyone in the area went for Obama.

Posted by Persia | March 21, 2008 10:38 AM

Hot tea is okay. Not in love with Chai, but it can be pretty good. I'm still big for sweetened iced tea, though fake sweeteners are fine. Maybe that makes me a Huckabee supporter. Unless it's Arizona tea, in which case I must support McCain. On the other hand, when it's on special I do like a really fresh French-press brew of Kenyan AA (even if they've just lied and said that's what it is), and coffee itself is a word of Ethiopian / Somali origin, I believe, and most recently adopted from Arabic (qahwa), so I guess I can drink coffee and support Obama.

Posted by El Cid | March 21, 2008 10:44 AM

I grew up near the Canadian border and can attest to Tim Horton's having the best big-chain coffee.

On the whole this "Starbucks/Dunkin Donuts Democrats" thing is total horseshit - it sounds like the basis of a David Brooks column, only worse, if that's even possible.

Posted by CJH | March 21, 2008 12:01 PM

I've been going to DDs for 30 years, from the mountains of New Hampshire to the shores of RI, and from Boston to Pittsfield - I've never been just handed a coffee with cream and sugar in it

I've had the 'whoa there' at DDs in CT, MA and PA: asking for 'coffee' translates into 'cream and two sugars', done behind the counter in one fluid movement.

Tea is my main drink, but it's not foofy tea or the repurposed iced-tea tea. "Builders' tea" is the British definition: strong and cheap. Best place to get it? Russian groceries, Indian groceries, Somali/Horn-of-Africa groceries. $6 a pound, lasts a couple of months even if you drink five cups a day.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | March 21, 2008 2:40 PM

starbucks and dunkin donuts coffee universally sucks.

Intelligensia is the only good coffee.

Everything else is swill. You all need to get out of the east/west coast mentality and get to Chicago (although LA has one) and try some real coffee.

You won't be able to stand that nasty burnt garbage from starbucks anymore. You'll realize that illy is crapola. And DD isn't even coffee.

Posted by jerry 101 | March 21, 2008 3:48 PM

Originally from the Pacific Northwest and currently in Maputo, Mozambique....the line about Henry Weinhard's beer made me homesick!

Posted by Kelly | March 21, 2008 5:51 PM

Originally from the Pacific Northwest and currently in Maputo, Mozambique....the line about Henry Weinhard's beer made me homesick!

Posted by Kelly | March 21, 2008 5:51 PM

Maybe a little history / regional info will help.
1) The founder of Dunkin Donuts grew up in a MA suburb of Providence RI.
2) Southern New Englanders, and Rhode Islanders in particular, like sweet coffee. In fact "coffee milk" is the official state drink of Rhode Island, and is regularly given to kids, caffeine and all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_milk Also, coffee ice cream is very popular there, and you can easily find a coffee milkshake (locally aka a "coffee cabinet"). (Try to find that in Clifornia!) If you ask for a "regular" coffee anywhere in RI (not just a DD), you're likely to get cream and sugar. Interestingly, I have heard it claimed that it tastes different if you put the milk in before the coffee, which is why it is done behind the counter. (I like black coffee, so I can't comment.)
3) Dunkin Donuts was founded by William Rosenberg, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n40_v22/ai_6702234 who invented the modern lunch truck you see at every construction site (aka "the roach coach"). But he realized the combination of coffee and donuts was a great seller -- he could charge more for coffee if he sold donuts too -- thus he started Dunkin Donuts. This is fairly well known. The raoch coach link may well play into DD's blue collar image.

Posted by C | March 21, 2008 7:28 PM

Maybe a little history / regional info will help.
1) The founder of Dunkin Donuts grew up in a MA suburb of Providence RI.
2) Southern New Englanders, and Rhode Islanders in particular, like sweet coffee. In fact "coffee milk" is the official state drink of Rhode Island, and is regularly given to kids, caffeine and all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_milk Also, coffee ice cream is very popular there, and you can easily find a coffee milkshake (locally aka a "coffee cabinet"). (Try to find that in Clifornia!) If you ask for a "regular" coffee anywhere in RI (not just a DD), you're likely to get cream and sugar. Interestingly, I have heard it claimed that it tastes different if you put the milk in before the coffee, which is why it is done behind the counter. (I like black coffee, so I can't comment.)
3) Dunkin Donuts was founded by William Rosenberg, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n40_v22/ai_6702234 who invented the modern lunch truck you see at every construction site (aka "the roach coach"). But he realized the combination of coffee and donuts was a great seller -- he could charge more for coffee if he sold donuts too -- thus he started Dunkin Donuts. This is fairly well known. The raoch coach link may well play into DD's blue collar image.

Posted by C | March 21, 2008 7:29 PM

Maybe a little history / regional info will help.
1) The founder of Dunkin Donuts grew up in a MA suburb of Providence RI.
2) Southern New Englanders, and Rhode Islanders in particular, like sweet coffee. In fact "coffee milk" is the official state drink of Rhode Island, and is regularly given to kids, caffeine and all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_milk Also, coffee ice cream is very popular there, and you can easily find a coffee milkshake (locally aka a "coffee cabinet"). (Try to find that in Clifornia!) If you ask for a "regular" coffee anywhere in RI (not just a DD), you're likely to get cream and sugar. Interestingly, I have heard it claimed that it tastes different if you put the milk in before the coffee, which is why it is done behind the counter. (I like black coffee, so I can't comment.)
3) Dunkin Donuts was founded by William Rosenberg, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n40_v22/ai_6702234 who invented the modern lunch truck you see at every construction site (aka "the roach coach"). But he realized the combination of coffee and donuts was a great seller -- he could charge more for coffee if he sold donuts too -- thus he started Dunkin Donuts. This is fairly well known. The raoch coach link may well play into DD's blue collar image.

Posted by C | March 21, 2008 7:30 PM

Maybe a little history / regional info will help.
1) The founder of Dunkin Donuts grew up in a MA suburb of Providence RI.
2) Southern New Englanders, and Rhode Islanders in particular, like sweet coffee. In fact "coffee milk" is the official state drink of Rhode Island, and is regularly given to kids, caffeine and all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_milk Also, coffee ice cream is very popular there, and you can easily find a coffee milkshake (locally aka a "coffee cabinet"). (Try to find that in Clifornia!) If you ask for a "regular" coffee anywhere in RI (not just a DD), you're likely to get cream and sugar. Interestingly, I have heard it claimed that it tastes different if you put the milk in before the coffee, which is why it is done behind the counter. (I like black coffee, so I can't comment.)
3) Dunkin Donuts was founded by William Rosenberg, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n40_v22/ai_6702234 who invented the modern lunch truck you see at every construction site (aka "the roach coach"). But he realized the combination of coffee and donuts was a great seller -- he could charge more for coffee if he sold donuts too -- thus he started Dunkin Donuts. This is fairly well known. The raoch coach link may well play into DD's blue collar image.

Posted by C | March 21, 2008 7:30 PM

Maybe a little history / regional info will help.
1) The founder of Dunkin Donuts grew up in a MA suburb of Providence RI.
2) Southern New Englanders, and Rhode Islanders in particular, like sweet coffee. In fact "coffee milk" is the official state drink of Rhode Island, and is regularly given to kids, caffeine and all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_milk Also, coffee ice cream is very popular there, and you can easily find a coffee milkshake (locally aka a "coffee cabinet"). (Try to find that in Clifornia!) If you ask for a "regular" coffee anywhere in RI (not just a DD), you're likely to get cream and sugar. Interestingly, I have heard it claimed that it tastes different if you put the milk in before the coffee, which is why it is done behind the counter. (I like black coffee, so I can't comment.)
3) Dunkin Donuts was founded by William Rosenberg, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n40_v22/ai_6702234 who invented the modern lunch truck you see at every construction site (aka "the roach coach"). But he realized the combination of coffee and donuts was a great seller -- he could charge more for coffee if he sold donuts too -- thus he started Dunkin Donuts. This is fairly well known. The raoch coach link may well play into DD's blue collar image.

Posted by C | March 21, 2008 7:31 PM