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The Jeremiah Wright Factor

14 Mar 2008 03:24 pm

I've been slow on the uptake with the Jeremiah Wright issue because I don't just have a quippy joke to make about this. I'm unsure, in general, of what the standards we're supposed to apply to the political views of politicians' favored clergy. I have no idea what the rabbis at Temple Rodef Shalom (where I've gone to synagogue the past few High Holy Days) or at The Village Temple (where I had my bar mitzvah) think about political issues, but I assume I don't agree with them about everything, and certainly it'd be odd to drag up old statements made by any of the relevant rabbis about this or that and then ask me to either endorse the statement or repudiate the entire congregation.

By the same token, we don't assume that a politician who goes to mass wants to ban birth control nor do we ask Catholics who favored preventive war with Iraq to repudiate the Pope in order to prove their hawk bona fides. In short, we generally assume that a politician's stated political views express his or her position on political topics, and that affiliating with a religious congregation does not constitute an endorsement of everything the leaders of that congregation have ever said.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that I see this as a basically trumped-up issue. Obama's enemies have put this Wright stuff out there in bad faith, not because they're genuinely uncertain as to what Obama thinks, but merely because they think it can hurt him electorally.

But of course they're right that it'll hurt him electorally because Obama's going to have a hard time explaining that I take to be the truth, namely that his relationship with Trinity has been a bit cynical from the beginning. After all, before Obama was a half-black guy running in a mostly white country he was a half-white guy running in a mostly black neighborhood. At that time, associating with a very large, influential, local church with black nationalist overtones was a clear political asset (it's also clear in his book that it made him, personally, feel "blacker" to belong to a slightly kitschy black church). Since emerging onto a larger stage, it's been the reverse and Obama's consistently sought to distance himself from Wright, disinviting him from his campaign's launch, analogizing him to a crazy uncle who you love but don't listen to, etc. The closest analogy would probably be to Hillary Clinton's inconsistent accounting of where she's from (bragging about midwestern roots when trying to win in Iowa, promptly forgetting those roots when explaining away a loss in Illinois, developing a sporadic affection for New York sports teams) -- banal, mildly cynical shifts of association as context changes.

This is why I don't, as an American citizen, worry that President Obama would be objectionable. But Americans take their religion seriously and aren't going to want to hear this story. So Obama's going to have to do some awkward further distancing.

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Comments (298)

This isn't an issue.

This is another way of pointing at Obama and saying:

"Look, that guy's BLACK. He goes to a church filled with BLACK people, with BLACK minister who says things that BLACK people say."

If this were an issue, then all the republican candidates would have had their preachers vetted by the movement conservatives on issues like abortion, access to contraception, and civil unions for homosexuals.

I have no idea what the rabbis at Temple Rodef Shalom (where I've gone to synagogue the past few High Holy Days) or at The Village Temple (where I had my bar mitzvah) think about political issues, but I assume I don't agree with them about everything, and certainly it'd be odd to drag up old statements made by any of the relevant rabbis about this or that and then ask me to either endorse the statement or repudiate the entire congregation.

Are you close with any of them? Did any of them marry you, or give you the inspiration for the title of your book?

Regardless of the outcome/political play of this issue, I just don't think that's a fair comparison.

Contrast your "(where I've gone to synagogue the past few High Holy Days)/(where I had my bar mitzvah)" to a twenty year membership and crediting the insitution as being highly influential in one's life.

That's why this is getting media play - not because he and his wife occassionally showed up there.

And I'm backing Obama no matter what, and this is not a big deal for me as a voter, but that was a very poor comparison.

It's the two-step American politicans from non-traditional religions go through. The American Methodists has non-mainstream views on the Israel/Palestine issue, but no-one asks if George W. Bush, a noted Methodist who chose that church as an adult, if he agrees with the Methodist position on divestment from Israel. Why not?

Note that Bush chose Methodism over his familial Episcopalianism -- perhaps becuase he wanted a more authentic middle-American church, not an elitis Yankee faith. Same as Obama.

In a sane world, the Wright story would be as much small potatoes as Hagee has been for McCain (Hagee may be a big deal on liberal blogs, but it hasn't really broken through to cable news or mainstream media outlets). But of course, the world isn't very sane.

analogizing him to a crazy uncle who you love but don't listen to

But of course you can't choose your family. Obama clearly chose to associate closely with Wright. He chose to go listen to Wright preach for 20 years. He chose to take his kids to hear those sermons. He chose to get married there. He chose to put Wright on his advisory committee and describe Wright as a close advisor.

Those choices do to some extent constitute an endorsement.

After all, if the rabbis at Temple Rodef Shalom preached hateful rhetoric time after time when Matthew attended temple, would Matthew continue to go there? If so, wouldn't that constitute at least some endorsement of the message?

"it's also clear in his book that it made him, personally, feel "blacker" to belong to a slightly kitschy black church"

As a biracial guy, I can get that. You get it from both sides when you're not pure yet in general you tend to associate more with the side you look more like (which often isn't the white side, including in my case). When you don't have a clear demographic identity laid out in front of you, you have to make it on your own. That means you often try to search for something authentic on which you can claim proves that you are really part of whatever ethnicity, even if you are also part of another ethnicity. The search for authenticity can be powerful, especially when you're young.

Here's the problem with your analysis, Matt, being anti-birth control or anti-war is not an outside the mainstream position. Granted, the former is certainly a minority position but it is one that many people can understand even if they do not agree or particularly respect it (mostly because it's been around for awhile).

However, what Wright has said is not in the mainstream, not even close. Blaming the U.S. for 9/11 for example.

Now, if George Bush called Pat Robertson (who we all know has made similiar statements) his mentor and spiritual advisor and named his book after one of his sermons, most people would probably be appalled. So it's a combination of this man being a close advisor and friend to Obama for 20 years and also the fact that his statements are very much on the fringe. Not simply disagreeable to many people, but abhorrent.

I have no idea what the rabbis at Temple Rodef Shalom (where I've gone to synagogue the past few High Holy Days) or at The Village Temple (where I had my bar mitzvah) think about political issues....

Well that alone makes them rather different from Rev. Wright. The fact that Wright's politics are central to his message is what makes them relevant.

I think this is going to be less of a problem a couple of weeks from now than it might presently appear. Little though we care to admit it on this side of the aisle, lots of Fundies are pretty normal people who sketch out when their pastor says that God wants us to crush Teh Gays beneath our feet or whatever. That is, religious people are, I think, much more familiar with distinction between attending a church (or synagogue or what have you) and accepting everything that's said from the pulpit. I suspect the media is less religious than the country at large, and so is less likely to be comfortable with that distinction. So the media will freak for a bit. And then they'll notice that lots and lots of people don't care. (Cf. fans vs. media on the steroid scandal.) And come up for some idiot explanation for it before moving on. But they'll move on.

Who knows? But this doesn't bother or worry me at all.

>I have no idea what the rabbis at Temple Rodef Shalom (where I've gone to synagogue the past few High Holy Days) or at The Village Temple (where I had my bar mitzvah) think about political issues....

Didn't you previously describe yourself on this blog as an atheist?

There's even less to it than Matt thinks: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/what-obama-saw.html

Which is another way of saying the media are being unfair both to Rev. Wright and Sen. Obama. (To be sure, I don't agree with the comments in the Wright video any more than Obama does.) I suspect the importance of "belonging" that Matt sees as cynical is real. He didn't want to appear to be a member of the community on the South Side; he wanted to BE a member of that community, and he found common ground in universal principles, albeit Christian-specific language. This was long before he was a candidate for anything, let alone a racially mixed seat in Hyde Park, but a civil rights lawyer and community organizer.

Anyway, Obama's right -- he should be judged on his own words and actions, and ordinarily the question of wheher he agreed with Wright wouldn't even be asked. That PA primary sure is a long way away, isn't it!

We all could do without the concern trollery, as well. However, it's nice to see all the good readers at TPM telling us where the goalpost for appearing acceptably black is presently located, though I'm sure it will be move anon.

Sullivan just put something up on this that I think is interesting to think about - the Wright stuff causes two smears to split open. It's hard to call him a closet muslim while at the same time bashing him over his closeness to his Christian preacher.

I'm not really sure how this all plays out - it's theoretically possible that it'll help him by making him look more mainstream (read: Christian) but that doesn't seem likely.

I would say this gets a little touchy in the general election in as much as that if the GOP plays the 'angry black man card' too prominently, they risk being more or less permanantly branded as a bunch of racists. Basically they could find themselves losing by winning.

I'm finally in on a Wright thread early enough to weigh in. Basically, if Obama didn't know this was going to be a problem, and hadn't already anticipated how to handle it, then he's not the politician he's shown himself to be in this primary.

I think it's a great opportunity to talk about the positive things the church has done for him (brought him to Chirst, made him part of a community, surrendered to a higher power), and the rubes will eat this stuff up. He can than highlight how much he dencounces, rejects, etc. the divisive parts of Pastor Wright's message.

That's not going to stop Sean Hannity, Al, and a distressing number of Hillary supporters from cynically flogging it until the bitter end. But he may be able to spin it into a net positive. If he can make it a conversation about his faith rather than his crazy black pastor, it only strengthens him in the areas where Dems have been weakest, and he may be making inroads electorally.

namely that his relationship with Trinity has been a bit cynical from the beginning.

Did you have some evidence you wanted to post for this or were you just trying to do a drive by hit? I mean, on the surface there is nothing to suggest he didn't pick a church for the same reason millions of white folks do every day but because he's half-black, he's automatically working a con somehow?

If you don't actually have any evidence he chose his church based on cynical politics, isn't it just as easy, or easier, to construct a narrative that if he was picking a church based on political calculation, he'd pick one without a lot of the militant/black nationalist baggage of Trinity?

What gives Matt? This is just stupid.

Paradoxically, it is because Americans take their religion so seriously that they will give Obama a pass on this.
How many of us would want to answer for all the specific beliefs of our denominations?
Too many good Republicans have been members or churches with damn odd beliefs for them to take Obama down because his pastor likes fiery sermons.
Rarely does mote in his, beam in yours logic work in politics, but this is one case where it does, bacause the stakes are so damn high and people are genuinely shamed about revealing their own denominations faults.

Another interesting paradox. If the Republicans were the party of atheists, then Obama would have a real problem, since the atheist only has to defend non belief, but because most republicans are belivers, taking on Obama for his pastor's sins becomes much much harder.

I'm sorry Matt, but it seems like a bit of a double standard on your part after all the McCain stuff. I like Obama and all, but if it doesn't count for Obama and Kerry then it doesn't count for McCain either. Right?

The man who married me and baptized my child is a bit of a crank. He has views on a number of things I personally disagree with and he can be off-putting in the pulpit. The difference with Wright? He's white. Ultimately this has nothing to do with religion. The clips that were put out didn't contain questionable dogma, but political content that many white Americans might just not find objectionable but frightening. To be the first black president means you can't really be black. You can be Wayne Brady black (he does make Bryant Gumble look like Malcolm X, after all), but not Chris Rock black. The Rev. Wright is Chris Rock black, and for Obama it's a major liability. Not if McCain stumbles or the Dems convince the public he's Bush III. But in a close election, he could sway enough votes to swing Ohio or Pa or Fla. Obama needs to hit this one head on. If he speaks about his faith the way he's written about it, he can turn this to his advantage. In the meantime, he can start wearing a flag lapel the size of a stop sign and learn to play America the Beautiful on the kazoo.

brewmn,

Wow, and I thought I was an optimist. I hope you're right. If Obama can spin this into a net positive, then he truly is a gifted politician. I think the best he can do is minimize the damage. Its always hard to tell which stories will last. My instincts tell me this is a big one.

I fail to see what's controversial about Wright's comments. That terrorism is partly a response to American international behaviour? Were the invasions of Afghanistan/Iraq unconnected to the events of 9/11?

This is an example, and there will be many more, of how Obama will "Dukakized" in the general (as opposed to "Gored") by the GOP and their MSM schills. You know, an out-of-touch, elitist, strange, America-hating liberal.

Much like Dukakis himself in 1988, some Obama supporters here seem to believe that the American people won't be taken in by such nonsense. I hope Obama doesn't share that belief, and understands some serious, constant, and aggressive Clintonian push back is needed in dealing with both the GOP and the MSM hacks.

Progressives of course should be defending the comments since they are blaming American policy just like progressives used to do. But I guess that's not OK. It's certainly never a detriment to GOP politicians that their religious figures blame the gays and the multicultural society. But of course there is a double standard isn't there.

amaretti biscuits,

I don't know whether Matt's an atheist, but just for the record, lots of atheist and agnostic Jews attend High Holy Day services. A good many probably attend regular shabbat services, too.

NHct, I mostly agree. Except I'd just add that if indeed the Rev. Wright stuff, or the "he's really a muslim" stuff ends up swaying enough votes to change the outcome of the election...then democracy, once again, will be the system that doesn't get you the best rulers, but gets you the ones you deserve.

"I'm unsure, in general, of what the standards we're supposed to apply to the political views of politicians' favored clergy."

For starters, how about employing the same standards to Obama that you do to McCain? If you believe that this is basically a "trumped up issue" against Obama, how can you feel otherwise regarding Hagee's endorsement of McCain?

There is no question that Obama is much closer to Wright, for reasons already stated, then McCain's relationship with Hagee.

It is so funny that you guys refuse to see this for the big deal that it is. There is no way Obama is going to carry Pennslyvania and Ohio in the General Election when his spiritual advisor and family friend for 20 years believe that blacks should pray to God to damn America for her "sins" and that all white people hate all black people.

For once, I completely agree with MattY: this is a completely trumped-up issue.

In fact, there's nothing wrong about Wright's comments, and there's absolutely nothing for Obama to apologize for or even distance himself from.

I'll go even further: Obama should invite Wright along on his campaign appearances, so he can spread his spiritual guidance to all of America. Obama is a true fighter for justice, and as president he'll be sure to put Wright's advice to good use running the country!

As I said at another blog:

"People seem to want one of two things, either for Obama to reject the more radical remarks made by Wright or reject and denounce Wright himself.

On the first part, he has done this several times in the pasat and, to his credit, continues to do so without whining about it.

Consider this scenario: One month from now somebody replays Ferraro's comments and asks Clinton to disavow them. Would that be fair to do? And do you think Clinton is going to say "Of course I reject and denounce them" or "Look folks, that is old news, I already did in the paast and I resent them coming up again."?

My sense is it would be the latter.

On the second request. Wright represents somewhat of a father figure for Obama. Now, my father was an alcoholic bigot who would frequently tell off color racist jokes and signed a petition to keep AA's from moving into our neighborhood. In addition to that, he also taught me about the necessity for honesty, hard work and the need to remain true to myself.

Because part of who or what he was was a negative, which I have rejected, do I have to denounce him as an individual? Anybody that tells me I would have to can go ... ."

Additionally, people presume that this is the way Wright talked all the time when there is plenty of evidence that it actually represents a minor part of his preaching. Additionally, for those of you who bring up the 20 year stuff, would you please provide evidence that Wright was preaching this way back then.

For those that talk about it being a Black Nationalist Church, baloney. It is a church comprised of primarily African Americans who take pride in that heritage and want to promote it and keep it alive. At the same time it is not racist, does not exclude whites (many attend it regularly) aned in fact, is a part of the most inclusive Protestant denomination in the US.

I frequently attend a small Roman Catholic shrine in Chicago which promotes itself as promoting and maintianing a strong Italian heritage. I am not Italian. But what is the difference between that and the main mission of the TUCC?

Mark,

He seems to be saying that terrorism is some sort of divine retribution rather than human retribution. I mean, I don't think bin Laden cared about us bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Either that or he's making the point that Americans have a double standard, in the sense that we don't care how much suffering we cause to others, but are outraged if the tables are turned.

The former position is nuts, but then so is the belief that God picks the Super Bowl winner. The second position is true, although I'm not sure if Americans are exceptional in this regard.

"I'm unsure, in general, of what the standards we're supposed to apply to the political views of politicians' favored clergy."

For starters, how about employing the same standards to Obama that you do to McCain? If you believe that this is basically a "trumped up issue" against Obama, how can you feel otherwise regarding Hagee's endorsement of McCain?

There is no question that Obama is much closer to Wright, for reasons already stated, then McCain's relationship with Hagee. Right Matt?

It is so funny that you Obama supporters refuse to see this for the big deal that it is. There is no way Obama is going to carry Pennslyvania and Ohio in the General Election when his spiritual advisor and family friend for 20 years believe that blacks should pray to God to damn America for her "sins," that the U.S. government is responsible for the spread of AIDS and drugs in the black community and that all white people hate all black people. And without those states, he cannot be elected President.

What exactly is wrong with what Wright said? And where are people getting the idea that he's "racist"?

McCain has no affiliation with Hagge's church, yet he seeks out his support. He either doesn't bother to see if he's a nut or he doesn't care, he just wants his endorsement.
Obama works within his church, takes the positive from Wright, dismisses the negative, actively argues with him and ultimately helps bring moderation to the pulpit of Unity church.
Please tell me of the 2 who deserves respect.

Well, Matt, I've been warning you this day was coming for an entire year, and you knew it was coming from the time when you finally read "Dreams From my Father," and saw that Wright takes up most of pp. 274-295 in Obama's autobiography.

Obama's response to the Pittsburgh interview was his one chance to get out in front of this issue, and he failed miserably. "God Bless America" and September 11 are two icons that cannot safely be desecrated in today's political climate. Wright did both.

When Obama was confronted with Wright saying "God Damn America" his only response should have been to react in horror, say that his entire work has been to try to bring a blessing to America and announce that he could not associate in anyway with someone who expressed such thoughts.

When Obama was confronted with Wright recycling Malcolm X's "chickens coming home to roost line" (which was pronounced immediately after JFK's assassination) on the Sunday after September 11, he could not passively take it stride. He needed to announce his revulsion and move on. (I imagine that many will wonder whether Obama was in church that day - most churches were packed).

This is a moment like Michael Dukakis being asked about the death penalty if Kitty were raped and murdered. Dukakis should have known those types of questions were coming and answered in a way that did not disqualify him in they eyes of most Americans. Obama is likely to meet the same fate. I only hope that he does not get the oppportunity to lose in November.

The political point of these kinds of non-issues is that so few people are going to bother finding out what it is that Wright said. Fewer will try to find out if the criticism is apt.

So it goes. The right wing noise machine, aided and abetted by HRC. Wotta surprise.

One little point for perspective, though -- the things that would make an Obama presidency groundbreaking from the perspective of dealing with America's racism are exactly the same things that make Wright an issue.

If there are no sparks, there's no grind.

OMG. Is John McCain the voice of reason?:

According to TIME's own "The Page," McCain's senior adviser Charlie Black told MSNBC's Morning Joe that he would give Obama a full pass on the Wright rhetoric, echoing McCain's view that candidates should not be held responsible for what their supporters and endorsers say."

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/03/mccain_campaign_returns_to_sol.html
Posted by observer2

Too many Democrats are afraid of issues like this and say "I don't care but others will so the issue must be addressed. It could hurt him!" That's a losing proposition of explaing complicated things.

The burden is on critics of Obama to bring it up, not for Obama to explain it because it's on YouTube. If the press asks Obama he can use the "crazy Uncle" line. If the GOP brings it up then Obama can credibly hammer the crap out of them for being hypocrites who gladly deny the principles of freedom of speech and freedom of religion at the drop of a hat if they can make something into a divisive campaign issue.

Matt's assertion that Obama's joining Wright's church for a combination of cynical political reasons and kitschy racial solidarity (I'm finally black enough!" reasons is documented in my article from a couple of months ago that outlines Obama's relations to various religions:

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/080120_obama.htm

Well, Matt, I've been warning you this day was coming for an entire year, and you knew it was coming from the time when you finally read "Dreams From my Father,"

And yet Obama will still win.

It is precious watching someone who thinks of himself as respectable, yet has a sizeable neo-nazi/white supremacist following, do the guilt by association thing.

It is so funny that you guys refuse to see this for the big deal that it is. There is no way Obama is going to carry Pennslyvania and Ohio in the General Election when his spiritual advisor and family friend for 20 years believe that blacks should pray to God to damn America for her "sins" and that all white people hate all black people.

Look dumbass, we aren't refusing to see anything. We just aren't going to make an electability decision based on Clinton's or the GOP's ability to smear. It can be done to anyone for any reason. Four years ago, we nominated a war hero with phenomenal national security credentials. By election time, we found out that man had betrayed his county and was secretly working for the North Vietnamese.

There's no reason to believe Obama is anything other than what he has consistently lived and said the last 46 years. And if that isn't enough to overcome the racial smears and racist innuendo, he'll do just as well as the last five out of seven WHITE nominees.

Obama WILL BE the nominee, so you need to decide now if your going to give this Dick Morris shit wings and help bring about the result you are so desperately warning us about, or push back rationally against it.

America is the most hated country in the world and has a strong racist anti-Black past, much of which persists today. Obviously Wright exaggerated and lost control at least sometimes in his sermons but it's important to recognize that he was stating the views of many which deserve to be heard. He is angered by prejudice in America. Like Ron Paul, he believes that America's foreign policy has been misguided and that "blowback" has occurred. Unlike Bush who lives in a neocon bubble which does not brook contradiction or dissent, Obama has listened to differing views. This is to his credit. In order to solve problems, one must know what the problems are. Bush just basically fired Fallon for opposing an attack on Iran, and Bush is currently giving speeches saying he will always believe that he was absolutely right to invade Iraq. His congregations are the "America is always right" variety. Bush has no idea what the rest of the country or the rest of the world thinks. He no doubt thinks our foreign policy is just dandy and will soon invade Iran. Obama has stated that he rejects many of Wright's comments. Yet it's important to remember that throughtout our history many American soldiers have died so that people like Wright have freedom of speech. It makes our country a better place.

Seems to me the correct response is something like:

"Look, my skin may be brown, but as you know I grew up in a white household among white relatives. As I wrote extensively in my book, I needed to get in touch with the other side of my heritage. Rev. Wright helped me do that. But he is also product of his generation and can be at times fairly radical. And he taught me a lesson he never intended to teach: the old radicalize way does not work. Perhaps it was helpful before, I'm not sure, but it certainly does not help today. We need to get past that; a cause I've largely dedicated my life towards."

Or something along those veins.

"So it goes. The right wing noise machine, aided and abetted by HRC."

The fact that the Democrats, and the Media, constantly roll over and pander to the rightwing is the problem.

Here's how it works:

1. GOP smear artists dream up next scurrilous attack.

2. Rush Limbaugh and Drudge push it.

3. FoxNews picks it up and plays it again and again.

4. CNN and MSNBC copy them.

5. Pretty soon the NYTimes and WaPo start talking about it.

6. Mission Accomplished -- Rightwing spin becomes news.

I think the MSM and Dems have to stop being so cowardly and panicky about the GOP smears. Start fighting back for a change.

The great irony? Of the larger churches on Chicago's South Side, Trinity is one of the most inclusive with a number of white congregants. In fact, a far more politicized South Side congregation is St. Sabina's - http://www.saintsabina.org/ - which happens to be led by a WHITE priest: http://www.saintsabina.org/legacywebsite.html

All the same, I sadly DO think Obama's going to have to come out strongly about that. His camp does believe they dealt with this over a year ago. Here in Chicago, it was not a small deal when Rev. Wright was disinvited at the last minute from attending the announcement of Obama's candidacy. If memory serves, he was scheduled to be one of the main speakers. Even then, it was take as Wright's being thrown under the bus.

Obama's in a real Catch-22. If he renounces Rev. Wright under the bus, it will probably go against everything Obama believes in as a human being. At the same time, if Obama fails to do so, I agree that the road to the White House may be permanently blocked.

I don't see Obama turning away from his pastor of most of his adult life. He's better than that. How he finds his way out of this, I don't know but DO have hope. If he succeeds in doing so, I also believe it only strengthens his candidacy.

As others have said, at least the world now knows he has a pastor, not an imam!

county

Country, too.

Oh yeah, and Obama's black! Black black black black black black!!!!! And his pastor is black and scary! Black and scary! Black and scary!

Has anyone brought up that Obama's mama had sex with a black when it was still probably against the law and if not against the law, CERTAINLY frowned on!?!

Steve Sailer, I bet you did a diary on it, didn't ya?

Jim W,

Maybe he's said more than this but the quotes I've encountered have him saying "God damn America". He's cursing us, justifiably in view of Christian belief, not claiming divine retribution.

And the idea that we regard the victims of our actions with less concern than we show for ourselves is indisputable.

So again, I wonder why reasonable people would feel the need to disavow this.

Wright is Obama's spiritual mentor not the guest pastor who gave last Sunday's sermon. I have never heard Bishop Blake at West Angeles preach 'god damn America' so it isn't something 'BLACK people say.'

I actually cringe when I listen to Wright speak. But how old are these clips? Playing them over and over again seems a bit unfair.

Unfair in the sense that the media seems so preoccupied with the provocative nature of the film, they don't see any responsibility in pointing out when this event took place.

The reason I'm skeptical that this will have a huge impact is this - if you drew a venn diagram of the people who are offended enough by Wright to not vote for Obama, I suspect you would find it overlaps pretty neatly with the people who aren't going to vote for a democrat anyways.

Basically, it crushes him in sectors where he already had no chance anyways. Could be wrong though - depends on how the not particularly religious but go to church on a weekly basis crowd reacts.

I think Obama's got to walk a fine line here, but if anyone can do it, he's the guy.

First, he can't just 'throw Wright under the bus.' You don't do that to people you've known for 20 years, unless you find out one day that they've been swindling little old ladies or something.

Jeremiah Wright is the same guy he's been. Obama obviously thinks a great deal of him. He can't pretend all that history means nothing, without coming across as completely insincere.

He's got to stand behind Wright as a friend, and as a pastor with a powerful Christian witness. But he does have to disavow, in the strongest terms, Wright's playing of the victim card, of Black identity politics, of the language of division, of us v. them.

He's got to be able to say - accurately - that in his experience as a member of Wright's congregation, this was not something Wright was harping on every Sunday, or he wouldn't have been there.

If it WAS something Wright was harping on every Sunday, that's the point where we Dems throw Obama under the bus, and go with Clinton as the nominee. After all, Fox has bought a set of Wright's sermon tapes - it's too late for bullshit.

Obama's going to have a hard time explaining that I take to be the truth, namely that his relationship with Trinity has been a bit cynical from the beginning.... associating with a very large, influential, local church with black nationalist overtones was a clear political asset....

I hope you're correct. The way I figure it either:

(1) Your statement is true and Obama doesn't really believe in Wright's crap (though is wife appears to have taken it more to heart). In that case I'm not terribly afraid of having him be President, but I also kinda don't see the point to his candidacy - it sure as heck aint "hope" or "change" or "a new kind of politics."

(2) Your statment is wishful thinking, Obama really does share some large fraction of Wright's worldview, and there's no way in heck I want him to be President.


So if Obama wins, best case we get lucky and get a two-faced, cynical, corrupt political hack, worst case we get a far-left America-hating nutjob.

If Clinton wins, we're guaranteed to get the two-faced, cynical, corrupt political hack. Sounds like she's the better bet (where "better" means "sucks a bit less awfully").

For months I dismissed all the rhetoric about Obama's preacher and mentor as political garbage, however now after seeing and hearing this hateful nut recently on MSM I've learned my lesson about so easily dismissing these investigative articles. Hearing Rev. Wright was very concerning. He makes Hitler sound like a choir boy.

If Obama really deplores this hate, why has he stayed with this nut for 20 years? However I'm willing to hear Obama out before being hasty.

When are Obama supporters going to realize this election isn't going to be run by crying "racism." Eventually that's going to be a turn off.

It's not Obama being black that is the turn off, by the way, not even to the white working class folks in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia that many liberal elitists routinely call "bigots" on this blog. The turn off is concepts White Guilt, Afrocentrism, American Imperialism, and the idea that America's soul is broken and White America must atone for sins committed against black and brown people everywhere. Whether one agrees with that or not, that is a turn off to the sort of people Obama (or anyone) needs to win over in order to be elected.

He makes Hitler sound like a choir boy.

You have to be fucking kidding. Someone, PLEASE, point to something that Wright says, exact words, and explain why it is racist.

Obama is right to handle this non-issue in a calm and unruffled way. He should not feed the media beast by making big speeches or gestures on what is basically a very small story which will be forgotten in 2 weeks time at the most. By refusing to overreact, Obama makes clear that he is not a weak liberal, and also that there is nothing of substance to the story. The worst thing he could do would be to give this story more publicity than it deserves.

Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. isn't some tangential figure in Obama's life -- he's the closest thing Obama has found to a surrogate father to fill the Dad-shaped hole in his soul left by his bigamous father's abandonment of him at age 2. And this isn't ancient history: the Obama family gave $22,500 to Wright's Church in 2006, the last year for which he have tax returns, making it the biggest beneficiary of their donations that year.

And it's not just Wright's anti-white stuff, the Farrakhan stuff, and the Gadaffi stuff that makes Wright radioactive, it's the far left stuff. When they first met, Obama grilled Wright to make sure his church was far enough left for Obama.

Look, I explained all this stuff over and over for a year now, and I recommended that Obama do a Sistah Souljah on Wright if he wants to remain viable for President. If he'd done it in 2007, it would be ancient history by now, but, no, the media let him slide by until the worst possible moment.

In many ways, Obama is closer to Wright than McCain is to Hagee-- but then Obama didn't seek out Wright's political endorsement, as McCain did with Hagee.

Basically, the two should cancel each other out-- though they may not, and even if they did it would be sort of too bad, since Hagee is, in my opinion, much more offensive.

"God damn America" should not be any more offensive than saying "God did damn America," which is essentially what Hagee (and not only Hagee!) has said about 9/11, Katrina, and other natural disasters (i.e., they happened b/c God was mad at us for gays and feminists etc). When you consider what Wright is citing as reasons for this damnation compared to Hagee et al, it's considerably less offensive. But since those other guys have been fixtures on the national scene and Wright and his ilk have not, I'm guessing the press won't play it like that-- certainly not without help (so get on it, Obama campaign!).

On the cable shows, such as Bill O'Reilly, there was a warning before the tapes were aired that they contained extremely offensive language, so viewers might need to leave the room, etc.

I think for most Fox viewers, hearing the phrase "God damn America" is sufficient to reduce them to a quivering mass of jell-o.

When are Obama supporters going to realize this election isn't going to be run by crying "racism."

When are Clinton supporters going to realize that she's lost?

When are Clinton supporters going to stop trying to make John McCain the next president of the United States?

One little side note on this - it's not clear that everyone means the same thing by saying "throw him under the bus." It's obvious that personally denouncing him would be a disaster - it wouldn't appease the people most up in arms and it would appear weak and dishonest.

He has, of course, already denounced the substance of what was said, and that was probably necessary. I think there is more he could say in this vein, and possibly even use is in a positive way.

But there is an issue between those extremes which hasn't been sufficiently discussed. Should the minister resign his very small, symbolic role with the campaign? I'm sure to a mathematical certainty that he will if asked. I can see advantages and disadvantages. I think he ultimately will, though I'm not sure it's necessary.

On balance, I have to agree that you want to err on the side of not giving in to the right wing noise machine. People analogize this with Ferraro, and I think there is an analogy, but maybe not the one people are making. If Ferraro had shut her mouth after the initial remarks, Clinton probably wouldn't have asked her to resign. It was only when she continued yapping her big mouth that she had to go.

By the same token, if the minister, now retired, lays low, I think Obama's distancing will be enough. If he goes the Ferrero route, though, and starts going on national TV and defending his remarks - well, that would be a problem for Obama, and one that would require more from him.

But I don't think this guys, for all of his incendiary remarks,* doesn't seem to be quite the loose cannon that Ferraro is, and I imagine he will lay low for a while.

*and hey, I'll say right out front that I agree with SOME of his remarks, at least; personally, part of me would like Obama to be a little more like him. I sure as heck don't find his views 1/10th as unacceptable as Hagee's. But, of course, that would, indeed, make him unelectable.

He didn't want to appear to be a member of the community on the South Side; he wanted to BE a member of that community, and he found common ground in universal principles, albeit Christian-specific language.

In your view, is believing that the US government deliberately created the AIDS virus so it could use it to kill off blacks and gays part of the "universal principles" or part of the "Christian-specific language"?

fill the Dad-shaped hole in his soul left by his bigamous father's abandonment of him

LOL, SS, you should be writing for Worldnet Daily. Get over there now and apply. This is great stuff.

Obama's done. You can stay in denial if that makes you feel better, but it won't change reality.

This goes to his judgment. He is unfit to lead others when he closely associates with someone like Wright for 20 years and praises him as his "spiritual advisor."

He only denounces when it's politically convenient to do so. It's obviously cynical and false, and only the most credulous supporters believe the denouncing.

Good night and good luck. But Obama's done.

Obama lied.
His mystique died.

the media let him slide by until the worst possible moment.

This is the worst possible moment?

After he's basically secured the Democratic nomination, but with several months to go before the convention and more than seven months before the general election?

Steve - you keep telling us how smart white people are, but keep demonstrating something far different.

In a sane world, the Wright story would be as much small potatoes as Hagee has been for McCain

McCain has met with Hagee once. Obama's been going to Wright's church every week for twenty years. That's about 1040 Sundays. Add a few for holidays, weddings and christenings, subtract a bunch for Sundays when Obama was in Washington, and Obama's bag of potatoes is still about 1000x as big as McCains.

It's hard to call him a closet muslim while at the same time bashing him over his closeness to his Christian preacher.

Except that said Christian preacher is buds with Louis Farrakhan, and the TUCC website says Muslims are welcome after a two-week orientation.

I've also been pointing out that Rev. Dr. Wright is an exhibitionist and may be intentionally sabotaging Obama's campaign by doing things like inventing a lifetime achievement award to give to Farrakhan just last November. You'll notice that tapes of Mike Huckabee's old sermons conveniently (for Huckabee) disappeared, but Wright's old sermons remained proudly on sale on his church's website.

Pure speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if Wright wants to go down in history as the man who showed that a black man can't get elected President. It would confirm Wright's lifelong claims of the overwhelming power and pervasiveness of white racism and stoke his ego.

If anybody is interested in learning the facts about the Wright-Obama connection, here are all my postings on it:

http://isteve.blogspot.com/search/label/Rev.%20Dr.%20Jeremiah%20A.%20Wright%20Jr.

I would say this gets a little touchy in the general election in as much as that if the GOP plays the 'angry black man card' too prominently, they risk being more or less permanantly branded as a bunch of racists.

Chuckle.
As if they haven't been already?
A party that never breaks 10% of the black vote really has little to lose on this score.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

the TUCC website says Muslims are welcome after a two-week orientation.

Oh no! Muslims are welcome!

Obama = Osama.

Clearly.

BTW, Obama has a response at The Huffington Post.

He comes pretty close to the "throw him under the bus" side, closer than I would have liked, personally.

I'm agree that equating Obama's Wright problem with McCain's Hagee problem doesn't make sense. Obama obviously has a problem, the question is what should he do about it.

I think yazzel makes a good point about what Obama should try to do first. If that doesn't work, then he'll need to explain his "personal journey" in a way that doesn't require completely abandoning Wright, while also reassuring people that he does not share his views at all, and points out the guy's good qualities, etc.

It won't be easy.

SoCal:

Absolutely nothing anybody says here is going to have any effect on the presidential election. Let's just get that out of the way you can you can stop your whining and toughen up.

Obama should indeed pull a Sista Soulja. Go speak at his church in the next couple of weeks (or another majority black church) and repudiate Wright's views in the strongest terms. The best thing that could possibly happen to Obama is if this causes Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Wright and Louise Farrakhan to rebuke him sharply in the days following. More importantly, nobody in the mainstream will question again whether Barack Obama is the "black candidate" or secretly holds radical Afrocentric views.

As a Clinton supporter part of me hopes he won't take this advice, since this will persist as a liability to him otherwise. For his own good and that of the party that's what he should do.

Payback's a bitch, isn't it?

Since you're desperately trying to smear McCain with this Hagee nonsense, you're not in a position to complain when the same thing is done to Obama with regard to his association with Wright.

This is the worst possible moment?

Actually, it's really the only time the Clinton campaign could strategically push it. Before this, they couldn't tell folks about his Christian pastor because they were trying to gt mileage out out of the muslim thing. But with the 60 Minutes dustup and the resulting media coverage - and the fact he keeps winning - the muslim thing wasn't working and polls about his faith were going Obama's way.

The south side of Chicago is a mess. It is one of the most racially segregated places in the country. It struggles for its problems to be recognized. Many people from the North side of Chicago have never been to the south side. Meanwhile we have a local government that is smooth at co-opting all of the different racial groups, but is very lax on really providing for this side of the city. It's a mess, and a heartbreaking one. This is the reason for the "radicalism" and "afrocentrism" of the church institutions there.

political content that many white Americans might just not find objectionable but frightening. To be the first black president means you can't really be black.

To be a president of any color you can't have political views that a large fraction of voters find objectionable and frightening. Your second sentence is only true if "not believing the US government is selling crack in the ghettos" means "not being really black".

Chuckle.
As if they haven't been already?
A party that never breaks 10% of the black vote really has little to lose on this score.

That's true but they still have a long way to go in terms of losing support among other ethnic minorities and whites who don't like being branded as racists. That's why the GOP has been resorting to dog-whistles for the last 40 years.

Well, I personally don't know anything about this Rev. Wright fellow and haven't bothered to hunt down his sermons, but the indications gleaned from the comments of those who have done so is this is "pretty bad" for poor St. Barack.

I'm also glad to see that poor Matt is---finally---starting to make an attempt to rejoin the Reality Based Community. I guess a little late is better than never.

"It's hard to call him a closet muslim while at the same time bashing him over his closeness to his Christian preacher."

Except that said Christian preacher is buds with Louis Farrakhan, and the TUCC website says Muslims are welcome after a two-week orientation.

Posted by Ralph Phelan | March 14, 2008 4:57 PM

Wow. A now low.

You a Clinton supporter?

Sweet. Steve the racist scumbag Sailer is here. That's awesome.

I just read Obama's Huffington Post response. Its pretty good. Lets hope its enough.

I'm an Obama supporter but I agree with commentators who say that there are plenty of people, such as White working class folks, who would desert Obama in the general election if they associate him with the "Wright stuff".

Let's just get that out of the way you can you can stop your whining and toughen up.

Ahh, Timmy. I see months of sour grapes hasn't made you any more charming.

Obama should indeed pull a Sista Soulja.

First of all, the last person he should take advice from is you.

Second of all, he has already condemned his pastor's remarks.

Third of all, Hillary has lost. Moreover, she's lost to a man her campaign and surrogates have tried their darndest to paint as an inexperienced, conservative Muslim who was schooled in a madrassa!!!, who uses words!!! in his speeches, some that aren't his own and is only beating her because of his race. So it's doubly hysterical to watch you complain about false charges of racism. Obviously, no one wants to lose to someone like that, so it's no wonder you guys are so damned bitter.

Addtionally, it's rather classic to watch you accuse someone else of whining.

Lack of self-awareness is sometimes comical, sometimes clinical.

Mark @ 4:25

Great post.

If Obama says something like what you said, I'll be pretty much satisfied.

But if he doesn't, I'll be forced to assume that he still really does share at least some of the radicalism.

Of course, if he does, he's gonna lose abunch of support in the more radical parts of the black community for being a "sellout."

Yeah, the Huff post response is just about perfect. Someone said it went too far ... eh, in a perfect universe, perhaps, but really politically it struck the perfect note, without personally denouncing the former pastor, which would have been a mistake.

This will continue to be an issue only if weak Democrats, afraid of their own shadow, or disingenuous Clintonoids, allow it to be.

Do you think blacks are voting for him at 90%+ margins because they think he'll govern as a technocratic neoliberal green? Blacks presume that there will be some liberation theology and African nationalism mixed in, a few cabinet positions for race careerists, etc. and he'll in fact be betraying that constituency if he doesn't follow through.

Ralph,

He doesn't phrase it just that way - I, too, kind of wish he did - but, if you look at the Huff post statement, he substantively goes at least that far in terms of denouncing the remarks themselves.