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The Race and the Media

03 Mar 2008 02:12 pm

The Clinton campaign is pushing hard on the idea that the press has been kinder to Barack Obama than it's been to her, and I know a lot of her supporters are totally up in arms about this. I'd say it's definitely true that, on balance, Obama has gotten better press than Clinton. Still, I think Clinton fans are going more than a little overboard with this monocausal account of the campaign. For one thing, one important exception to this is that if Obama had lost eleven contests in a row, there's no way he'd still be treated as a viable candidate. Similarly, if Obama had reached a situation where nobody can mathematically see a way for Clinton to catch his lead without altering DNC rules, I seriously doubt the race would continue to be covered as a serious competition.

From another direction, even though the press has often been unfair to Clinton about petty stuff, they have been very willing to go along with the idea that she has a vast experience edge over Obama even though it's always been unclear what exactly that edge consisted of. On top of that, the country's most prominent liberal columnist has been pretty consistently attacking Obama for months now. Now, yes, I do think there's been more BS thrown in her direction and there's obviously been an "Obama swoon" factor that there's no equal of on the other side (even Krugman, for example, writes only about his loathing of Obama and his supporters and never says anything good about Clinton) and that's been a factor in the race. Still, on the central argument of her campaign, Clinton's been treated reasonably well and the press has actually bent over backwards to keep her in the race under circumstances when almost anyone else would have been written off.

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Comments (122)

It's odd for Hillary to complain about bad treatment by the press when her campaign has been openly hostile to the media from Day One.

And how is it a bad thing to have a candidate the media likes ? Would we rather have a candidate the media despises to fight against media-darling McCain ?
I know it is too convoluted to make that argument backlash but it certainly sounds like a silly thing to push. We should not want to vote for someone because the media likes them but I would think it would be a plus if the media likes the guy that wins our nomination !

When you start with $100 million in the bank, and a high level of name recognition, and a bunch of committed superdelegates, and a famous husband, and you manage to piss all that away and fall behind an insurgent campaign funded by a bunch of small Internet donors, then it isn't all that surprising that media would look at your efforts with skepticism.

The Clinton campaign is pushing hard on the idea that the press has been kinder to Barack Obama than it's been to her

Such bullshit. I like the early attack by the HRC supporters--which some in the media seem to have bought--that Obama wouldn't have been a serious candidate if he wasn't a man. Yet no one notes that a candidate who was wrong on the major issue of the day and who had negatives north of 50% on occasion wouldn't have been a viable candidate, let along the presumed inevitable candidate, if her name hadn't been Clinton. See, e.g., the very accomplished and then incumbent LBJ.

Furthermore, the only policy that has its tires kicked has been Obama's healthcare proposal. Where are the inquiries into any of HRC's policies?

Jeebus.

Similarly, if Obama had reached a situation where nobody can mathematically see a way for Clinton to catch his lead without altering DNC rules, I seriously doubt the race would continue to be covered as a serious competition.

You screwed that up, I think, as that's what actually has happened.

on top of everything posted above and in your article...no points out that "life isn't fair" and to complain about it does not help...The presidency isn't fair, and her complaining about it isn't going to change any reality. From a republican playbook that will surely be brought out if she does win the nomination and continues to complain..."If she can't handle the US Media, how is she going to handle Putin, et al."

It is un-presidential in my eyes for a candidate to complain about petty stuff.

Matt,
Thanks for making the point I've been harping on about Krugman...it's odd that he can't seem to present an affirmative case for her candidacy, so he just resorts to attacking Obama (rightly or wrongly).

Don't forget all the underground Muslim and Flag Lapel smears circulating in tens of millions of email boxes around the country. That isn't picked up by surveys of the MSM but it sure as hell is a big factor.

P.S. With his latest column I can safely say Paul Krugman has gone off the reservation. Seriously, what is this guy trying to do?

You reap what you sow, I think.

If Obama is getting more positive press, than maybe it's because there are more positive things to write about him than there are about Clinton. The two candidates being equal, yes, Obama's received more positive coverage, but he's also done more positive things worthy of coverage.

To take the example to an extreme, it's like Malcolm X complaining that Martin Luther King was getting all the good press.

Don't you think "loathing" is probably a little strong for what Krugman feels about Obama?

The Clinton campaign is like the '04 LA Lakers, filled with superstars everybody knows, portrayed as inevitable. The only question: great team or greatest team ever? The Obama campaign is like the '04 Detroit Pistons. They have a weird obsession with treating every possession (ie delegate) as precious, they don't turn the ball over, and they limit the runs of the opposition. They play hard every night, every game.

Now the Clinton campaign is full of excuses saying that run in the 2nd quarter shouldn't really count, that the Kobe/Shaq dynamic while dysfunctional still was more talented thant Rip/Rasheed, the triangle offense is better than good old-fashioned execution when it's executed properly, and by the way did you see Jack Nicholson in the stands? He's cool! And Karl Malone tweaked his knee and we're not getting the calls from the refs. And hell no we're not just getting flat outplayed...what kind of bias is that?

The scoreboard was biased. The Pistons were champions.

David,
"Loathing" might be too strong, but "dismissive" certainly isn't. Krugman's pretty close to the "Obama's supporters are idiots" crowd these days.

Another overlooked factor: Whatever you think of the politics or esthetic of his campaign, Obama has created excitement out there, stirred up a movement. He has made news. And whatever sundry biases may stir on the fringes of the punditocracy for one candidate or the other, most of what we've been seeing is the media living up to its name, behaving as a medium between that news and the public.

Obama has won twice as many races as Clinton has, and has won every single day of the campaign except New Hampshire and Nevada. If he had not gotten better media coverage, that would in itself be evidence of bias. How many candidates who are getting beaten up as badly as Clinton have ever gotten positive coverage, especially if they are perceived as having kicked away a prohibitive advantage?

Anyway, her working of the refs has paid off, as there has been a noticeable change in the last week. I doubt it will work in the fall, but then I don't expect Obama to continue to be a media darling when he's matched against McCain either.

Similarly, if Obama had reached a situation where nobody can mathematically see a way for Clinton to catch his lead without altering DNC rules, I seriously doubt the race would continue to be covered as a serious competition.

You're delusional, as always. If Obama can't win the requisite number of delegates, then it's a serious competition until one of them bows out.

But in your bizarro world, Clinton wins California, New York, New Jersey, Pennsyvlania, and Ohio (and possibly Texas), but because she doesn't have a chance in delegates, the press will move on.

As always, I wonder what flavor of Koolaid they feed you here at the Atlantic.

If Clinton can't get people to swoon at her speeches, who's fault is that? "They all like the more charismatic candidate better than me!" sounds like a stupid thing to yell.

So, the biggest argument that Clinton has been treated fairly by the media is that ONE prominent liberal columnist doesn't like her opponent's views and tactics?

Give me a break.

It's odd for Hillary to complain about bad treatment by the press when her campaign has been openly hostile to the media from Day One.

Day 0 happens to be back in Feb 1992.

As you say, Matthew, it's foolish to deny that the media has had been charmed by Obama. But not without good reason. He's run a good, decent, pretty clean campaign and his audiences have been infectiously enthusiastic, too. But for Camp Clinton to whine that they got a raw deal is just ridiculous. They started out with vastly more coverage from Day One and leveraged that for a year, locking down key endorsements and amassing a huge war chest. I don't seem to recall Hillary's people complaining back then that Obama wasn't being treated the same.

It's funny Matt, you're trying not to mention the names Antoine Rezko and Nadhmi Auchi, even though this is the biggest news of the day. What are you afraid of?

The 'Man Who Would Be King' is bleeding.

"...the idea that the press has been kinder to Barack Obama than it's been to her..."

On the other hand, a segment of the fake press is busy cheerleading, in the form of Tiny Fey and Amy Poehler turning last week's SNL into an HRC love fest.

"...form of Tiny Fey and Amy Poehler..."

One of the hassles with the slooooow comment posting is that I get more time to review my typos.

Cal said: "Clinton wins California, New York, New Jersey, Pennsyvlania, and Ohio (and possibly Texas), but because she doesn't have a chance in delegates, the press will move on."

Putting aside the hypotheticals (Ohio, Texas, and especially Pennsylvania, which is more than a month away), the race is decided by delegates. So, yes, if Hillary didn't have a chance in delegates (like Huckabee), then the press should move on.

As it happens, she does have a chance. However, Matt is right that it's not a terribly good one. As her own campaign has made perfectly clear, her hopes rest in part on seating the disqualified FL and MI delegates. Now, in an alternative universe, in which Clinton had abided by the DNC rules and Obama hadn't, I could see the Obama campaign making a similar case (it almost fits an insurgent campaign better)-- but not if they had lost 11 races in a row, not to mention falling behind in the national polls, and comparatively trailing the GOP nominee in the vast majority of head-to-head polls.

Hillary still has a path to the nomination, albeit a very difficult one. So I think the press should still cover the contest as they are doing, more or less. But I agree with Matt that if the situation is reversed, Obama would probably be more marginalized than Clinton is at the moment. It's nothing personal, I don't think: it's a comment on how insurgents and heavy favorites are covered.

An unanswered question for Clinton supporters, in my mind is this: if media can single-handedly determine the outcome of any campaign, how did Obama rise in the first place? In the beginning the media was sold on the Mark Penn argument of Clinton inevitability. If all anyone ever does is buy media spin, how did we end up with Barack Obama as the presumptive frontrunner in the race for the Democratic nomination?

The media obviously hasn't singlehandedly determined the outcome, or Clinton would be out of the race long ago. Instead, she's ahead in Democrat votes.

Dear Curious Reader,

If you're genuinely curious as to why no one is making a big deal out of the Rezko case, you might want to google the names "Charles Keating" and "Jim McDougal." Then report back to us on whether you think Obama's dealings with Rezko will convince anyone in America to vote for McCain or Clinton.

Sincerely,
Captain Obvious

What I don't understand is how team Clinton can claim they've been beaten up by the media on one hand, while on the other they're the only ones who can beat the GOP. So the story is they can beat the GOP but the media is too tough?

I think it's true that the press has been marginally kinder to Obama than to Clinton. I'm not too sympathetic to her on this score, though. During the last two weeks of his campaign, Edwards received virtually no coverage at all, positive or negative, from either the national or the local Bay Area press. I don't recall hearing anything from Clinton at that time complaining of the unfairness of that. That's to be expected, of course, as she clearly benefitted, along with Obama, from what seems to have been a broad buying into by the media that this was a historic campaign between the woman and the black man, with no room for the white male candidate. As unfair press coverage, per se, clearly isn't Clinton's complaint, only unfair press coverage that disadvantages her, I can't find myself caring enough to rail against the unfairness of it all.

all in all, a good post by Yglesias. more of this kind of evenheaded treatment would seriously raise my estimation of this blog.

Similarly, if Obama had reached a situation where nobody can mathematically see a way for Clinton to catch his lead without altering DNC rules, I seriously doubt the race would continue to be covered as a serious competition.

I assume you don't include winning with superdelegates as "altering DNC rules," but I think it's important to stress the point: unless there is some earthshaking political development, there is no way that Hillary can win with the current pledged delegate situation.

Let's assume that tomorrow goes rather badly for Obama: he loses by 10% in Ohio and Rhode Island, and only breaks even in Texas and Vermont. Further, say that Obama only wins by 10% in Mississippi and Wyoming, which is pretty conservative, given the characteristics of both contests. (Mississippi has a large African-American population; Wyoming is a caucus, and Obama annihilated Hillary in the comparable Idaho event.)

Now say that Hillary crushes Obama in Pennsylvania (by 20%), and in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico (by 30%). And, even though the other states -- like North Carolina and Oregon -- seem pretty good for Obama, say that he only breaks even in the rest.

With such incredibly favorable assumptions, Hillary still only makes up 85 delegates -- not enough to catch the pledged delegate lead.

Now, it's possible that if she seems to be winning the later contests, she'll gain an aura of "momentum" that she can use to convince superdelegates to support her. But I think (or, at least, hope) that if Obama has a solid national polling lead, this won't be viewed as a reasonable argument on her part. And at the moment, he seems to have opened up a fairly solid 5%+ lead among Democrats nationwide...

Where were all the complaints about a biased media when they were writing about her "perfect" campaign?

As any politician who has blown a huge lead in money and votes ever gotten good press? Honestly, there's one set of rules for the rest of the world, and a completely different set for Hillary fucking Clinton.

Wow, Matthew...

cognitive dissonance strikes again.

Not even a blurb about Obama's NATFA problems???

**gigantic crickets**

Yes, the media is like, totally un-biased in it's coverage...

LMBAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a huge Krugman fan/admirer so it has been very disconcerting reading his anti-obama columns which I have found contradictory and lacking substance and logic.

The one today seems to argue that we shouldn't want Obama because the media hates Clinton and loves McCain. What this has to do with Obama is unclear except Krugman seems to be saying "just wait, you'll see, the media will be very mean to Obama and don't come crying to me because I told you so."

The Dukakis analogy via Somberby is ridiculous. Obama and Dukakis couldn't be more different as candidates except that they have "ethnic" last names.

A lot of this is generational I think. Krugman and Somerby are out of touch or have blinders on and can't see that America is a lot different in 2008 than 1988.

Finally, why Krugman doesn't get that everyone understands Obama's change theme as a positive way of framing "bush sucked and we want something different" is beyond me. Putting people on the defensive by being negative is no way to win a campaign here in america.

Cal -- she's well behind in votes and pledged delegates. That's what matters. There is no solid evidence that she is ahead with Democratic voters. Even if she was, so what. She's ahead with Hispanics too. She's ahead with old ladies. It takes all types to win an election. Regardless of what happens tomorrow, HRC has not demonstrated that she can win.

I think that the whole concept of the big bad media is wrong. I have long thought that blaming the media is loser-ish scapegoating. With HRC, it is no different. She has run an abysmal campaign replete with race baiting and Islamaphobia, ham-handed attacks, and persistently inaccurate smear tactics. She is just not a very good politician.

I think the press has, if anything, given her far too much credit. Everyone is always saying how knowledgeable she is. The NYT said she was "brilliant." Where is the evidence of this?
She seemed to misunderstand Pakistan's parliamentary elections, for instance. She thought Mushareff was up for election, which is pretty basic and wrong. Her mortgage plan is a potential disaster -- it makes no economic sense to rewrite the terms of loans, etc. She was opportunistic and wrong on the war. The press gives her too much credit bc she is a celebrity with an ex-president for a husband.

Would Hillary Clinton be considered a viable candidate now if her surname wasn't Clinton?

This post is dead-on in every single respect.

Remember that old bromide - "treat others as you would like to be treated yourself"? Well, from what I hear, that's the Obama campaign. Though the candidate is about as private as HRC, it was reported as recently as this weekend that his aides are far friendlier to the press than Clinton's.

Still, the truth is that, until Iowa, the press treated Clinton like the queen she imagines herself to be. One can't state it enough - if the track records were reversed, everyone would be saying Obama is burnt toast, despite his delegate count.

The main reason HRC is still a candidate is due to the overgenerosity of Biden, Dodd and Richardson. They kept quiet as she absconded the mantle of Most Experienced Candidate. Only now are people speaking the truth - if experience was paramount, Joe Biden would be the candidate, not HRC.

Is the press demanding Huckabee withdraw? No? Whoops there goes your hypothetical!

To pretend the press hasn't had it in for Clinton is hilarious. Yep just like there was no war on Gore and there won't be a sudden shift to talk about Obama's lack of patriotism

Good lord, I'm embarassed for MY. It's like he's never read a day of the Daily Howler (that's dailyhowler.com). You should start with the October debate and work your way forward.

The press has had a huge double standard with Clinton for at least the last five months. Things she did that she got killed for (answer on illegal immigrant drivers licenses for one), Obama got a pass on (made same statement two weeks later, but it went down the memory hole).

Now, I understand you have a preferred candidate, so you don't want to give Clinton much ground or give up much ground for Obama, but this is part of a pattern of the news media - tear down prominent dems. You're letting them get away with it now because it serves your purpose. I'm sure you will cry when they start to do the same to Obama. And I will just laugh and laugh.

We either fight these jerks together or we don't. I'm not seeing much fighting here.

"Is the press demanding Huckabee withdraw? No? Whoops there goes your hypothetical!"

Huckabee also doesn't get much coverage, and it's constantly pointed out that he can't possibly win. If that's what Hillary wants from the press, I hope it can be arranged.

As always, I wonder what flavor of Kool-aid they feed you here at the Atlantic.

I prefer sour-grape myself.

I have a friend that's been hammering me about how much better Clinton is vs Obama. I get all of the talking points including how horrible it is she gets the first question at debates. Boo-hoo. The horror of having to answer the first question. If HRC, gets the nomination we'll have to hear this whining all the way to November.

"For one thing, one important exception to this is that if Obama had lost eleven contests in a row, there's no way he'd still be treated as a viable candidate."

Look, it's MoDo with a beard and a chronic case of swampass! Can you get any more reductive?

After reading this the second time:
Clinton's been treated reasonably well and the press has actually bent over backwards to keep her in the race under circumstances when almost anyone else would have been written off.

Gotta be the most obtuse thing I've read on this site.

Wow.

I would expect the other a-listers to mock you...but alas for the most part they too have decided to cover their eyes and ears.

It's becoming surreal.

Sorry, willjsimmons, but the line you quote is absolutely right. As has been noted here many times, the fact is that if Obama had lost 11 races in a row, he'd be treated like Huckabee; as a bit of a joke. Hillary on the other hand has been given every opportunity to move the goalposts back to a comfortable position. That's just a fact. Yes, the media has bent over backwards for Clinton.

"We either fight these jerks together or we don't."

Why isn't HRC proposing that "we fight these jerks together"? She's actually launching yet another attack which will play quite nicely into McCain's hands. I guess she can't wait until 2016; she wants a shot at '12.

"...Democrat votes."

These HRc supporters are starting to talk more like Republicans every day.

'the fact is that if Obama had lost 11 races in a row, he'd be treated like Huckabee; as a bit of a joke.'

Huckabee did that all to himself...

but your choice of analogy is certainly telling.

Both he and Obama are certainly fake as a three dollar bill.

I do hear that the Huckster is supposedly funny.

Obama, not so much.

Huckabee +1

I think when one complains that the media favor a candidate, you need to add which media. I don't normally listen to TV news, but I happen to have had it on a couple nights this week (I think I'm thinking mostly of the local news coverage), and I've been sort of surprised that the amount of time spent on how/what Hillary's doing seems twice as long as what Obama's doing. So it really appears like she's getting about all the breaks she could. And I agree with mrgumby2u that the last couple weeks Edwards was running he was *invisible*. I'd hear election results on NPR and they'd mention how Clinton and Obama did, and I'd be saying "and... Edwards? How did he do?" but they wouldn't say. Clinton will have something to complain about when she gets coverage like he did.

Clinton is fighting the media for their biased and stupid coverage. and for that, she's being ridiculed by MY. Who apparently has forgotten the lessons of Al "invented the internet" Gore. I hear next to nothing from most of the prominent "liberal" bloggers about the media's systematic campaign to distort and trivialize during this campaign. Because it's inconvienent to be principled right now. I feel pretty confident they'll rediscover those principles when it's Obama who's being savaged, but I also know a lot of Clinton supporters have already come to the realization that the "progressive" blogosphere is just as high school and pack mentality as the dopes at MSNBC.

Seriously - www.dailyhowler.com. Not that hard to find.

And Colatina - very nice regurgitation of Republican attacks on Clinton. These same attacks of course, (will do anything to win), were leveled at Al Gore by the MSM and their buddies the RNC. But it sounds so much more ironic coming from a liberal blog.

It isn't only the newspapers and Timmeh. It is also most of the liberal blogs (includng this one.)
You want proof? Where is the goolsbee post.

Apparently Goolsbee did something, lied about it, then admitted the meeting but denied he meant what they claimed he said. All about something apparently improtant in Ohio.

What do we learn from this? (And what would an honest blogger have written about it?)

That Barack is a politician and he and his people lie if it suits them. Recognize it. If this is important to you, don't vote for him (but good luck in finding a non-lying politician for whom to vote.) But if you were voting for Barack because you thought he WASN'T a politician and WOULDN'T lie, maybe it is time to re-evaluate.

But Matt and the others won't tell you tnis, because they want you to vote for Barack. (And if politicians lie as a matter of course, journalists are supposed to tell the truth, even if it hurts.)

"Don't you think "loathing" is probably a little strong for what Krugman feels about Obama?"

No. Krugman has started to foam at the mouth over this guy. I don't know exactly what's behind it, but it's disturbing.

Is Krugman going to keep being an attack dog all through November? Maybe he's really hoping for a GOP victory so he has someone to rail against.

What Columbia said.

But of course by this point many Obama supporters have so internalized bogus MSM narratives about the Clinton's that checking out actual real-time, detailed press analysis (as opposed to half-assed, tossed-off blogging) will probably not have any affect on them.

What kind of bizarro world do we live in when "progressives" think Hilary Clinton - centrist, war hawk, DC Establishment to the core, friend of Murdoch, famous mostly for being a famous man's wife - is their standard bearer? It's beyond absurd.

I'll certainly vote for her over McCain, or any Republican, and I'm sure she'll do a decent job. But she'll also probably end up being at best another fairly successful centrist like her husband. Where do the Krugmans of the world get this idea that she'll give them the final battle vs. the Republicans they so desire?

I guess the fact that SNL, a show that draws more viewers than anything on MSNBC, has decided that minstrel like portrayal of Obama as a dufus in back face is just fine and dandy.

Attention morons (and MY, two sets which sometimes overlap): Krugman is a political and economic critic who points out things that bother him or that don't square with his ideas of how the world ought to work. Krugman is also a liberal partisan who wants to fight Republicans tooth and nail, so he thinks kumbaya lions-lie-down-with-lambs happytalk is BS and he criticized Obama for it. He thinks aping Republican messaging about the Social Security crisis is asinine and said so. Similarly, he wants universal health care and, although the matter is certainly debatable, thought the Obama plan's lack of a mandate fell short of that objective. And, yeah, he wrote a column where he got admittedly too thin-skinned after a lot of pro-Obama commenters (like here) called him a hack and a Clinton administration fluffer. For MY to say that this amounts to reflexive loathing of Obama and his supporters, when he has reasons for all of his positions, amounts to a lazy smear and an attempt to silence dissent through name-calling. I'm an Obama supporter myself and hope he gets the nod, but this by-the-numbers vilification that many people receive these days if they disagree with the thrust of his campaign is pretty weak shit. I don't expect more from a lot of the commenters here, but I do from Matt. Lame.

I'm wavering back to Hillary after seeing this cocky, hectoring video.

The press has had a huge double standard with Clinton for at least the last five months. Things she did that she got killed for (answer on illegal immigrant drivers licenses for one), Obama got a pass on (made same statement two weeks later, but it went down the memory hole).

I believe she got killed not for her answer, but for her equivocation. Either way, I thought it was a pretty stupid thing to bring her down, but after the media spent weeks regurgitating Clinton's spin that Obama's sensible foreign policy ideas were "gaffes," it didn't seem to me that she had much right to complain. Months later, the press still seems incapable of an honest comparison of the two candidates' national security experience and bona fides.

'I guess the fact that SNL, a show that draws more viewers than anything on MSNBC, has decided that minstrel like portrayal of Obama as a dufus in back face is just fine and dandy.'

*sigh*

Really?

1.) The 'actors' on SNL are not 'journalist' nor do they constitute the 'mainstream media'.

2.) The 'skits' are parodies.

3.) SNL has often used white actors to portray blacks. It's about who's best at getting into the character.

I'm actually ashamed to have had to explain this to you.

RS - you miss the point. It wasn't that her answer was fine and she got hammered (although I have no problem with equivocation on an issue that has no federal role anyway - issuing of drivers licenses). It's that Obama gave the EXACT SAME ANSWER - even after clinton got hammered and he should have known better - and he got a pass. It's crazy. There are other examples too: the "planted" questions. She got killed for 48 hours on that "scandal". Two months later Howard Kurtz reported that reporters at an Obama event found someone was a plant. They huddled up and decided it wasn't a story. So it went no where. And on it goes.....

And don't even get me started on the systematic sexist imagery used by the "boys" over at MSNBC. Yikes.

Big time media folks like Frank Rich and Maureen Dowd have made crap up about major dems for at least 9 years (going back to the War on Gore). Progressives didn't say anything about it then. I was under the impression that many bloggers got into the biz to counteract this crap and it would be different this time around. Guess I was wrong.

(Note, too, how MY singles out Krugman but not a whit about his two doopy counterparts. I mean, "what the h?")

Not to mention the complete pass she's been given on her support of the Bankruptcy Bill, even as she campaigns in Ohio as the second coming of Samuel Gompers.

Attention morons

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


You're writing a lot of words where only a few are necessary, like these

the press has often been unfair to Clinton about petty stuff....there's obviously been an "Obama swoon" factor

It's very simple: he's the new kid on the block. He'll get his turn at "unfair about petty stuff" when she's gone. Once again, polls show: he has a low floor and high ceiling and she has a high floor and low ceiling.

Was just thinking that he really caught a break with the writers' strike at a crucial point in the campaign, as the comedy writers are always on the forefront at creating public buzz about the petty stuff, their business is knowing which traits will resound. Which then basically demands that the MSM follow suit and write to audience on related topics, ala "is it true that Candidate X is this or that?"

The fact that we're having the conversation in the first place is beneficial, not to Obama, but to Hillary Clinton. It doesn't add ANYTHING to the real question of which of them is best for the country.

Senator Clinton has created a best-selling working narrative of "It's not fair!" adding chapters to it each day since Super Tuesday. It's all over the internet, all over the MSM. She gets a lot of air time on this, eclipsing time given to Obama. She and her surrogates are slip-sliding into dirty territory in her attacks on him, and no one is calling her on it. On the merits, maybe she has reason to be frustrated--but to turn her frustrations into an extended whine does NOT make her look presidential. Why would I want to vote for someone who has nothing to offer me but complaints?

I'd like to say that I find them both viable, since to my mind it's far more important for us to have a Dem in the WH than to argue about candidates. But watching Clinton turn the conversation into a debate over who the media is treating best makes that difficult.

Columbia,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama's response to the driver's licence question was that he thought illegal immigrants should be able to have them. Full stop.

McCain will probably hammer him for it in the general election, but it didn't become a story at the time because Obama kept his position simple and neither Clinton nor Edwards challenged him on it. What were the press supposed to write? "Obama Driver's Licence Position Unchanged for 3rd Day in a Row! Complete lack of news at 11!"

Clinton kept getting press because her campaign kept issuing clarifications. When they stopped, so did the stories.

He thinks aping Republican messaging about the Social Security crisis is asinine and said so. . . . For MY to say that this amounts to reflexive loathing of Obama and his supporters, when he has reasons for all of his positions, amounts to a lazy smear and an attempt to silence dissent through name-calling.

Well, I think Krugman is certainly entitled to raise legitimate disagreements with Obama, but if his Social Security gripe isn't reflexive loathing, but rather genuine concern, then I seriously, seriously question the guy's judgment.

Obama has some ideas on how to make Social Security more progressive and redistributive. On exactly one occasion (correct me if I'm wrong), in discussing his proposal, he referred to Social Security as being in "crisis." He later retracted this characterization.

Krugman proceeds to assail Obama because he used the word "crisis," on this one occasion, in discussing his progressive pension insurance scheme. This was a cardinal sin, evidently, because George Bush used the word "crisis" when he was trying to privatize Social Security; therefore, using the word "crisis" is supposed to a be right-wing talking point that (I guess) leads to the privatization of Social Security. Never mind the fact that if Obama is elected President, he wouldn't actually be proposing to privatize Social Security, and any and all of his rhetoric, including the word "crisis" or not, would be designed to stir people to embracing a more progressive Social Security regime.

Krugman's criticism only makes sense if - like many Democrats - you are constantly operating from a defensive crouch. Both the "we need to fight fight fight" and the "we need to coopt coopt coopt" wings of the party, despite their policy disagreements, both seem to operate out of this defensive posture, almost pathologically. It's high time for Democrats who don't decide where to stand by first looking over at where the Republicans are positioned.

Continuing on the theme of my previous comment @ 5:32pm,

the only question is when he starts to ripen and turn towards "uncool."

After Ribbing Clinton, Fawning Over Obama

March 3 New York Times Business Section

Hillary Rodham Clinton is a fashion victim, but Barack Obama? Oh, he’s a good dancer, a cool dad, a regular guy who likes ice cream and chili, and who happens to be a pal of Bono and George Clooney even though he isn’t impressed by celebrity.

At least, that’s the view from Us Weekly.

Three weeks ago, the magazine published a dozen photos of Mrs. Clinton in some of her most stylistically questionable get-ups of the last four decades, and invited her to make fun of the outfits, which she gamely did.

The new issue of Us Weekly turns to her Democratic rival, making Mr. Obama the subject of the magazine’s regular “Is he really just like Us?” feature. In a magazine that delights in skewering people, the man who would lead the nation received uniformly flattering treatment....

Beware the echo chamber effect of the blogosphere, pop culture is important in presidential races. No, they are not going to all go over to McCain, but they might just stay home.

Here's the exchange between Obama and Blitzer at the Nov. 15 debate. Apologies for no link as it's not on the CNN website and that it is kind of long. Funny enough, earlier Obama raised this whole issue by criticizing Clinton for not being clearer. Yet he hedges here...

(And also note the laughter when he does.)

BLITZER: On the issue that apparently tripped up Senator Clinton
earlier, the issue of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, I take it, Senator Obama,
you support giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

Is that right?

OBAMA: When I was a state senator in Illinois, I voted to require that illegal aliens get trained, get a license, get insurance to protect public safety. That was my intention.

(APPLAUSE)

And -- but I have to make sure that people understand. The problem we have here is not driver's licenses. Undocumented workers do not come here to drive.

(LAUGHTER)

They don't go -- they're not coming here to go to the In-N-Out Burger. That's not the reason they're here. They're here to work. And so instead of being distracting by what has now become a wedge issue, let's focus on actually solving the problem that this administration, the Bush administration, had done nothing about it.

BLITZER: Well, let's go through everybody because I want to be precise. I want to make sure the viewers and those of us who are here fully understand all of your positions on this barring -- avoiding, assuming -- there isn't going to be comprehensive immigration reform.

Do you support or oppose driver's licenses for illegal immigrants?

OBAMA: I am not proposing that that's what we do.

What I'm saying is that we can't...

(LAUGHTER)

No, no, no, no. Look, I have already said, I support the notion that we have to deal with public safety and that driver's licenses at the same level can make that happen.

But what I also know...

BLITZER: All right...

OBAMA: But what I also know, Wolf, is that if we keep on getting distracted by this problem, then we are not solving it.

Hey Cal- It is Democratic dick-face.To refer to the Democratic voters as Democrat voters is repugnant.... memo to Clinton supporters.. This race is fucking over....Its been over for two weeks now...The only question is how much the Clintons show their asses on the way out the door.. It is time for them and their supporters to come to terms with the fact that they got their asses kicked..OVER!

I think it's fascinating that Clinton and her supporters apparently think sniveling is the successful way to become President. Clinton has managed to hog news cycles with pouting and temper tantrums rather than substantive claims about her qualifications; she's managed to have the media adopt and examine ad nauseum any ridiculous attack on Obama; she's been allowed to have surrogates race bait, then claim both innocence and a record of helping black Americans that is primarily a chimera; and she's been allowed to claim she's a fighter against the Republicans when her record demonstrates that she only fights them when her own interests are at stake.

My God, her supporters are bleating about Rezko (funny how politician A not being Obama didn't get nearly the coverage the speculation did) and Goolsbee. The Clintons have a number of shady figures in their crowd, but the media has been content to substitute prurience for actual examination. The media is sexist and needs to be called on it, but turning HRC into some sort of martyr to the feminist cause is ludicrous.

Hey Cal- It is Democratic dick-face.To refer to the Democratic voters as Democrat voters is repugnant.... memo to Clinton supporters.. This race is fucking over....Its been over for two weeks now...The only question is how much the Clintons show their asses on the way out the door.. It is time for them and their supporters to come to terms with the fact that they got their asses kicked..OVER!

Thank you, Tommy, for the characteristic grace and charm I would expect from many on the Obamasphere. I mean, you all spend so much time wooing Republicans, that I'm flattered you are turning your attention to little ol' me. But your sweet talk won't change my mind and if my gal drops out, you still have to earn. my. vote.

How would I know if the press treats Clinton unfairly? I hate the Clintons too. Why shouldn't the press?

I admit, though, that I keep thinking Obama can't be as honest or magnanimous as his image; he is a politician after all. But I voted against Clinton much more than for Obama, and in November, I'll vote against McCain.

"I also know a lot of Clinton supporters have already come to the realization that the "progressive" blogosphere is just as high school and pack mentality as the dopes at MSNBC."

It's almost charming to see how Hillary and her supporters have adopted Bush's "You're either with us or you're against us" attitude.

Mike

"But your sweet talk won't change my mind and if my gal drops out, you still have to earn. my. vote."

Have fun voting for Nader!

Mike

Mike,

You are missing the point completely. You don't have to be FOR Clinton to be appalled at the press coverage she receives or to see it as part of a long pattern of media attacking Democratic candidates. Many of the attacks that have been made against Clinton (calculating, will do anything to win, wanted to be president since birth), were also made against other big dems such as Al Gore and John Kerry. They are part of a pattern that hurts the party as a whole. And with Clinton, you got the mysogynistic frosting that was oh so nice.

Before this campaign, I would have expected the major progressive bloggers to denounce this sort of crap even if they didn't support the particular candidate because IT IS BAD FOR THE PARTY. Now, I no longer do and instead, I see more and more instances where so-called "A-list" bloggers feed the beast rather than fight it. It is very dispiriting but no longer surprising that MY would not see real media bias against Clinton - but just because he agrees with the bias in this case doesn't mean it's not there and doesn't mean it won't turn around and bite Obama in the behind when he's up against St. McCain.

"Still, I think Clinton fans are going more than a little overboard with this monocausal account of the campaign."

General Electric and Marty Peretz both have a longstanding hate for entitlement programs.

Is it really that surprising that they'd fully be in the tank for a "Democratic" candidate who is willing to be opposed to entitlement programs?

I'm looking forward to Petey intelligently advocating for Ralph Nader in the coming months.

"You are missing the point completely. You don't have to be FOR Clinton to be appalled at the press coverage she receives or to see it as part of a long pattern of media attacking Democratic candidates. Many of the attacks that have been made against Clinton (calculating, will do anything to win, wanted to be president since birth), were also made against other big dems such as Al Gore and John Kerry. They are part of a pattern that hurts the party as a whole. And with Clinton, you got the mysogynistic frosting that was oh so nice."


Uh, no. You and other Hillary supporters are missing the point completely. Al Gore did get totally and utterly hosed by the media in 2000. Kerry wasn't treated nearly as bad in 2004. And while the Clintons only whine about the bad media treatment they get, they've also received some of the most laudatory, worshipful coverage any politician has gotten in 20 years.

The media were absolutely in the tank for Bill Clinton between New Hampshire and the election in 1992. The media couldn't have done more to deify Bill Clinton or done more to mock, belittle and dismiss Bob Dole in 1996. And even after impeachment, Clinton again got nice press coverage until he crapped all over it with those last-minute pardons.

NEWSFLASH - Hillary is getting poor press coverage now because she started this race 20 points ahead with ever possible advantage a candidate could want...yet she's been consistently beaten and beaten badly by a relative unknown. There's not another candidate in the history of American politics that could lose 10 primaries in a row by an average of more than 20 points and not get even worse press treatment than Hillary.

And by the way, I think you lose a lot of the moral high ground to criticize mysogyny when you make a blatently sexist appeal that people should vote for you SOLELY on the basis of your sex, like Hillary did in the last debate.

Mike

You really think Obama's opposed to entitlement programs? Is that because he said SS was in crisis? It's quite a stretch to turn that into "Obama's against Social Security." Or is it health care? His plan doesn't have mandates, so he's against universal health care? I don't get it.

There's no conspiracy required here. When a reporter calls Obama's campaign, he gets a call back from a high-level person. When a reporter calls Hillary's campaign, he gets the run-around. Is it so hard to see why Obama gets better press?

"You really think Obama's opposed to entitlement programs? Is that because he said SS was in crisis? ... Or is it health care?"

Yes.

You're catching on.

"Is it so hard to see why Obama gets better press?"

No. General Electric and Marty Peretz have a longstanding agenda against government spending on pensions and healthcare. It's not so hard to see why Obama gets better press in the least.

I've skipped the 77 comments to simply congratulate MY on this 110 percent spot-on correct right post.

And you didn't even mention that the HRC campaign has apparently purchased "Saturday Night Live" from NBC!

I'm just baffled that you interpret Obama's remarks on SS and health care as his being "against entitlements."

Why would the policy preferences of General Electric and Marty Peretz have anything to do with the treatment the candidates get in, say, the daily newspapers?

People who know how to play the media a little bit always get good press. McCain is the master, but Obama's catching on.

"Why would the policy preferences of General Electric and Marty Peretz have anything to do with the treatment the candidates get in, say, the daily newspapers?"

You seem unclear on how the mighty wurlitzer actually functions.

"People who know how to play the media a little bit always get good press. McCain is the master, but Obama's catching on."

Candidates who oppose entitlement programs have no trouble in getting good press. This rule has applied for seventy years now.

And you didn't even mention that the HRC campaign has apparently purchased "Saturday Night Live" from NBC! Posted by Woody Bombay | March 3, 2008 6:49 PM

Nah. The writer responsible just has considerable skill at anticipating popular zeitgeist about presidential debates:

...Mr. Downey, 55, a veteran writer of the show, must have been flattered by Mrs. Clinton’s cameo. After all she was just agreeing with his handiwork: a pair of comedy skits in which debate moderators give the candidate a tough grilling while fawning over her Democratic rival, Senator Barack Obama....

In an “SNL” career that has spanned 27 seasons over 32 years, Mr. Downey has written much of the show’s most enduring political comedy, anticipating the sentiment of the moment as often as responding to it.

“My approach is to do something that’s funny and not politically idiotic, as opposed to saying something profound,” he said. “Something that passes muster as a common-sense understanding of the state of play.”

At times his work has been prescient: in a 1984 skit about the war room of Walter Mondale, the Democratic presidential nominee, the candidate fastidiously plots a victory in Minnesota (the only state he carried that year).

In other instances he has missed the historical mark: a sketch about Democratic aspirants has them trying to avoid running against President George H. W. Bush in 1992, who then appeared unbeatable in the polls.

But when Mr. Downey has taken aim at the presidential debates, he has consistently defined the candidates before they could define themselves: his send-up of the 2000 debates between Al Gore and George W. Bush coined the Bushian malapropism “strategery,” an invention that is sometimes attributed to Mr. Bush....

by Dave Itzkoff--more in today's New York Times Arts Section.

Like I've noted elsewhere, I think Obama caught a real break with the writer's strike happening at the right time. His "shtick" or narrative was left relatively "undeconstructed" by comedy. The Clinton's have been the target of comedians for coming on two decades now--always much better to use the newbie if you want to be on the cutting edge of the laugh business.

I should have put the end paragraphs from the article in the above comment:

While Mr. Downey appreciated the shout-out from Mrs. Clinton, he said his Clinton-Obama parodies were not intended as a lifeline for her campaign. “These days, I imagine, they’re looking for help wherever they can find it,” he said.

He said he probably favored Mr. Obama over Mrs. Clinton, but that he genuinely felt she was receiving tougher treatment from the news media. (In Saturday’s skit the Clinton character is roughed up by Vincent D’Onofrio, a star of “Law & Order: Criminal Intent.”)

“If Senator Obama disagrees,” Mr. Downey said, “we have two more shows coming up in the next two weeks. And I’m sure we’d love to give him rebuttal time.”


"In other instances he has missed the historical mark: a sketch about Democratic aspirants has them trying to avoid running against President George H. W. Bush in 1992"

But, of course, even that sketch wasn't off the mark. Dem candidates really did try to avoid running in '92. That's why Clinton had no viable opposition.

Cuomo's Hamlet routine, for example, was directly attributable to that dynamic.

I think the reason that Obama seems to be a doofus in the skits is simply because Fred Armisen does such a terrible impression. Its no secret that SNL is actively searching for someone capable of doing a good Obama. Its hard to make someone look intelligent when you have an actor that can barely do it. I don't think they are intentionally making Obama look like an idiot. Now the cameo on the other hand, uh, yeah, that was clearly in Hillary's favor. I kind of thought Hillary did a terrible impression of herself. She actually came off pretty likable.

MILBANK: The press will savage her no matter what, pretty much.

KURTZ: If she wins?

MILBANK: Well, obviously if she wins by any great margin -- the press with Hillary Clinton, it's a poisonous relationship. And I visited the various campaigns out there. It's a mutual sort of disregard. And they really have their knives out for her, there's no question about it out there. So --

KURTZ: And to what extent do you think that is affecting the coverage of Senator Clinton?

MILBANK: I think it unquestionably is. And I think Obama gets significantly better coverage than Hillary Clinton does, and given an equal performance he'll come out better for it.

What Columbia keeps saying.

I'm leaning towards Obama in the Pennsylvania primary but the unsubstantiated and, yes, often misogynistic, vitriol many of his supporters direct toward Clinton is a real turn-off.

The most offensive thing about the original post here is the statement, Clinton's been treated reasonably well and the press has actually bent over backwards to keep her in the race under circumstances when almost anyone else would have been written off.

Even if the premise were true, which it manifestly isn't, as amply documented by Bob Somerby, Who appointed the press to determine who is legitimately in the race and who isn't? No thanks, I really don't need Dana Milbank, or Frank Rich, or Maureen Dowd, or Patrick Healy to tell me who to vote for, or to sneer at me the way Milbank did at the Florida Democratic voters for bothering to come out for their primary.

Gordonminor,
So you don't need the press to determine who is in the race for you, right? That would be ridiculous, huh? Yeah, I agree. But how come you seem so convinced that the press is propping Obama up on a pedestal? Either the media greatly affects the way Americans look at the race or they don't. Which is it?

"I don't think (SNL is) intentionally making Obama look like an idiot."

You're not too swift, are you?

If the Democratic Party ends up nominating the choice of the majority of Democratic voters, the summation of this campaign will be: Lorne Michaels Saves the Republic.

I agree with those who believe Obama has had a free ride. It's hard for me to imagine why the press don't give a better shake to the arrogant campaign of a mathematically eliminated, war-mongering, self-pitying, race-baiting Goldwater girl. If it wasn't for bad luck, Clinton wouldn't have no luck at all. Don't the press know that it is their obligation to create a moral equivalence between the candidates no matter what they do?

People still watch Saturday Night Live?

"If it wasn't for bad luck, Clinton wouldn't have no luck at all. "

Props for the song reference.

The base line of the Cream version of that tune always shakes me to my soul.

Great post Matt.

And did you see Clinton nearly endorsed McCain today:

Hillary Clinton told reporters that both she and the presumtive Republican nominee John McCain offer the experience to be ready to tackle any crisis facing the country under their watch, but Barack Obama simply offers more rhetoric. “I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say,” she said. “He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.”


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/01/politics/fromtheroad/entry3896372.shtml


Wait a minute, Petey -- if General Electric is acting all corporation-ey and trying to take out Hillary, where does SNL fit in? Aren't they on NBC?

After reading the comments, my opinion is that a candidate who gets bad press is a bad candidate. Next, Clinton fans will complain that Obama's only winning because people like him. That is so unfair!

OBAMA TANGLES WITH THE PRESS

SAN ANTONIO, Texas -- Led by the Chicago press corps that has covered Obama for years, the candidate today faced a barrage of questions in what turned out to be a contentious news conference.

Questions centered on why his campaign had denied that a meeting occurred between his chief economic advisor and Canadian officials as well as questions on his relationship with Tony Rezko, a Chicago land developer and fast food magnate, now on trial for corruption charges. ...

Toward the end of the press conference, the question of Goolsbee's meeting was raised again. Obama answered curtly and then walked out after a staffer called last question. The press erupted with shouts, but Obama continued to walk out.

He paused only to say, "Come on guys; I answered like eight questions. We're running late.”

On the flight from San Antonio to Dallas, Obama, unsurprisingly, did not wander back to make small talk with the traveling press corps.

8 questions! The nerve of those reporters. Come on press corps, you know you're not supposed to ask The Messiah so many questions! Just return to your normal adoring coverage, please.

"Wait a minute, Petey -- if General Electric is acting all corporation-ey and trying to take out Hillary, where does SNL fit in? Aren't they on NBC?"

Lorne Michaels has a free enclave within GE to do what he wishes, based on the huge profits he pulls in for the corporation.

Hence why the takeaway of this race is: Lorne Michaels Saves the Republic.

"Next, Clinton fans will complain that Obama's only winning because people like him."

Obama's only winning because independent and Republican voters are crossing over to vote in the Democratic contests to stop universal healthcare and elect a "Democrat" more congenial to their ideologies.

Subtract independent voters and Republican voters from these contests, and Clinton is up by around 55 to 45. You may think Andrew Sullivan is the decider of our nominee. But I think Democrats are the decider of our nominee.

Hence why the takeaway of this race is: Lorne Michaels Saves the Republic.

And gawd help us all, that's probably irony free. Petey's not so much an anti-anti-war Democrat as an anti-Democrat Democrat. If you were bitching about the last seven years of Democratic behavior under this Administration, this is a pretty easy call. But, then, to be fair, Petey wasn't bitching about that behavior; he was bitching about people bitching about that behavior.

Hence why the takeaway of this race is: Lorne Michaels Saves the Republic.

I'm getting the sense that Canadians really like John McCain.

Something to keep in mind . . .

Matt has this right (unusual for him, but props where due, I say).

Clinton says they can handle GOP attacks because she's been vetted out of one side of her mouth, while on the other side it's "but the media is picking on me!"

What's wrong with this picture?

"What's wrong with this picture?"

The fact that "transhumans" are even dumber than Obama supporters is what's wrong with this picture.

Would respond to all the claims about Clinton, but I'll just say, "what digby said". (See hullabaloo today)

People still watch Saturday Night Live? Posted by too many steves | March 3, 2008 8:25 PM

And let me guess, you get all your campaign news from blogs and your infotainment from YouTube? And a few years ago, you just couldn't figure out why Kerry lost because everything you read and saw told you he was going to win, so it must be a Diebold conspiracy?

Clue: Network TV, it's still there. Many people still watch it because they don't have cable. The cable audience is still very small comparatively. And sitting down at a desk to use a computer to access the internet is not fun to many people, rather, it's like homework to them, go figure. And many more people vote in presidential elections when they don't bother with mid-terms, funny, lots of them are the kind of people that watch network TV.

I've read lots of posts (here and elsewhere) about the Clinton's campaign absurd claims (see all posts about Penn) during this campaign. And I've read lots of posts (here and elsewhere) about the media bias against Clinton (which I think is probably real).

But what I haven't seen is a post that connects these two issues: if you insult the reporters and pundits whose job it is to cover and analyze the campaign with half-truths, preposterous interpretations, bald-faced manipulation and a disingenuousness that is striking even for a political campaign, you don't get to be surprised when you're treated accordingly.

An analogy: Clinton has been saying, "Here's what you've got to decide: who do you want to hire for president?" If you've got two prospective hires and one has demonstrated time and again -- or at least, has appeared to you to have demonstrated time and again, if there's a difference -- a willingness to say whatever to get the job, then you're going to want to probe further, question harder, see how far that willingness goes. It may not be fair, but it's smart.

The point of a primary is to choose the candidate who can best go against the GOP's candidate. When you are able to turn the press from labeling you inevitable to a shrill harpy within a month because the facts on the ground change, you need help. Primaries test a candidate's political skill. Gaming the media is one of the most important political skills. FDR, Eisenhower, JFK, Reagan, Clinton and Bush could all do it. If Clinton doesn't like being a politician and doing what being a politician entails and fails at it, then she has no business running for president. You don't wait for the media to grant you good coverage; you make the media give you good coverage.

artappraiser, SNL's ratings have been in a death spiral for a while. You don't have to be an Obama supporter to know that. Stewart and Colbert took a lot of the wind out of their sails. Their first episode ever was hosted by George Carlin. Back then they didn't play it safe. Now it's hosted by people like Dane Cook and has musical performances by Ashley Simpson. Much like Rolling Stone, another venue that used to be more challenging to the mainstream, as it has played it safer for longer and longer, afraid of pissing anyone off, it has become less popular and relevant. Backing the home-state Senator and establishment candidate isn't exactly taking a risk.

Petey: "The fact that "transhumans" are even dumber than Obama supporters is what's wrong with this picture."

Which still makes us smarter than Clinton supporters.

Nice, eh?

Christ, you have to be a moron to walk into that one.

Petey, just keep going with that "screw those independents and Republicans, let's nominate someone only Democrats like." President McCain will thank you.

I say the media should be tougher.

They should hold each candidate, side by side, and examine every nook and cranny of their history both personal and public, their fundraising, their campaigns, all of it.

Let's look at Rezko side by side with Hsu and Bill's Foundation buddies.

Let's look at land purchases side by side.

Let's look at their voting records, side by side.

Let's look at their fundraising, side by side.

Wonder who comes out of that sort of real investigative journalism still standing?

Since we're examining each of the candidate's stances on the issues, you Clinton fans have an answer to this fella?

If Senator Clinton can prevail through tomorrow's round of primaries and caucuses and win the White House, a co-author of the surge strategy in Iraq says he is convinced Mrs. Clinton would hold off on authorizing a wide-scale immediate withdrawal of American soldiers from Iraq./i>

"Senator Clinton is very knowledgeable about national security and is probably going to be strong on defense," he said. "I have no doubts whatsoever that if she were president in January '09 she would not act irresponsibly and issue orders to conduct an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, regardless of the consequences, and squander the gains that have been made." Mr. Keane added that he could not imagine any president in the White House making that kind of decision.

http://www.nysun.com/article/72209

Of course the Clintons are denying this...throwing him under the bus after asking him to be a formal advisor on their campaign.

So what's the truth? This honorable military man or a pandering desperate candidate?

Petey thought Isiah Thomas had a master plan for saving the Knicks. Petey thought John Edwards would win the nomination. And after going on a month-long retreat, Petey has reemerged to argue that we need Hillary Clinton to save us from the moderate centrist wing of the Democratic Party.

Richard Steven Hack's pronouncements on transhumanism carry a lot more weight with me at this point.

I know the Clintons enjoy selective amnesia, but I remember 2000 and marching into battle under a candidate the media hated.

If Obama does a better job of coopting the media, then why on earth would I vote for Clinton?

Because Hillary Clinton says that Obama would raise taxes by trillions of dollars to pay for Social Security.

SAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. SAVE IT NOW.

"Petey thought John Edwards would win the nomination."

I never thought Edwards was the favorite for the nomination.

The closest I ever came to saying anything like that was saying that I thought Edwards would be the favorite for the nomination if he were to win Iowa.

You're free to stand with Obama and McCain against universal healthcare if you like, Barbar. We live in a democracy. But don't distort my previous prognostications.

I'm glad to see you out of Arkham Asylum, Petey. Makes things more interesting this way.

Petey, I seem to remember a few times you going on and on about how things are going to be once Edwards won, not if he won, the nomination, how those of us that doubted that were stupid, etc. You also seemed pretty sure Obama was going to win in New Hampshire.

"Petey, I seem to remember a few times you going on and on about how things are going to be once Edwards won, not if he won, the nomination"

I made a number of predictions in 2007 about how I thought the nomination race was going to turn out, and I'm reasonably certain I never claimed Edwards was the favorite to win.

Google is your friend. All of my comments should be unearthable with remarkably little effort.

Don't confuse what I wanted to see happen with what I prognosticated to happen. I thought Edwards had an excellent shot to win the nomination if he could take Iowa, but I never thought he was the favorite to win the nomination. I never paid more than 7 cents on the dollar for Edwards at Intrade, for example.

"You also seemed pretty sure Obama was going to win in New Hampshire."

Everyone on the planet was pretty sure Obama was going to win NH. Obama was trading at 95 cents on the dollar at Intrade to win NH the day of the primary. I don't think anyone saw that one ahead of time.

I never claim to be a perfect political prognosticator. I just happen to regularly beat the CW as expressed by the odds at Intrade.

"...I do think there's been more BS thrown in her direction..."

Matt, Obama has been lied about fantastically. Search Media Matters for "Obama" and there are hundreds of instances.

Here's a sampling. Check it out:

http://enalnitram.blogspot.com/2008/03/more-lies.html

Has HRC been unfairly attacked by the press? DUH.

How else do you get to run against the opponent you want?

It's clear that the Repugs would rather run against Obama. (That may well turn out to be a case of careful what you wish for)

I have to say, tho, that the tendancy of Obama supporters to trash HRC to the same extent as the MSM and the right is self-defeating, and sad.

Also I for one am glad that Krugman is holding Obama's feet to the fire re health care reform. "Liberal" isn't a brand name, it's policy.

Horatio: Why is it clear that Republicans would rather run against Obama? To me it is clear that the Democrats have an opportunity to win a significant number of traditionally Republican votes if they nominate Obama, because he polls better among Republicans. But if you have some contrasting evidence, I should like to hear of it.

I would also like your opinion of Rush Limbaugh's recent effort to get Republicans to vote for Clinton, on the explicit grounds that they would be better served by running against Clinton than Obama.

So now Matt is edging away from his own monocausal theory of the Clinton campaign by accusing "Clinton supporters" of espousing a monocausal view. (And, in the process, he manages to echo Maureen Dowd, who seems to think that HRC is still in the race only because she and her pal Frank are so kind-hearted). Neat trick!

In other words, I would advise Matt to stop writing about this stuff. I am not a Clinton supporter and like a huge number of Americans I see the media's (and the blogosphere's) treatment of Clinton as reprehensible. That's not to say I think the media has been favoring Obama (it's not a zero-sum game, after all).


Shorter version of above: Democrats are an old sow that eats her farrow.


Comments closed March 17, 2008.

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