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Wednesday NAFTA Blogging

05 Mar 2008 11:42 am

It looks pretty clear that the NAFTA/Goolsbee/Canada imbroglio wound up hurting Barack Obama quite badly. And in many ways, deservedly so; it was an embarrassing and amateurish way for a campaign to behave. What's more, one has to suspect that the underlying reality is that an Obama administration's economic team really would be much more sympathetic to trade deals than Obama's rhetoric was suggesting.

That said, for the long haul isn't it a bit hard to imagine opposition to NAFTA continuing to be an issue that pays dividends for Hillary Clinton. NAFTA was, after all, a signature policy accomplishment of Bill Clinton's presidency, not of the Illinois State Senate. Whatever Obama's economic team may or may not think about NAFTA, it was Clinton's economic team who actually shepherded it into law. Indeed, that's how this whole thing got started was with Obama zeroing in on the basically bogus nature of Clinton's primary-time posturing as an anti-trade candidate. Then, thanks to Goolsbee, the charge wound up blowing up in their face. But the underlying reality is that advocacy of free trade deals was a major pillar of the Clinton administration economic policy (which is okay by me, but not to rust belt voters) and in a six week campaign it'll be hard to throw up enough dust to obscure that.

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Comments (64)

I thought it was pretty established by now that that didn't actually happen, what with the Canadians apologizing and all?

OT, Sullivan links to a blog that suggests that maybe Rush did swing it: http://reason.com/blog/show/125327.html


It looks pretty clear that the NAFTA/Goolsbee/Canada imbroglio wound up hurting Barack Obama quite badly.

I wish we could really know this for certainty. The problem is that polls are such poor predictors, so even if we attribute anybody changing their minds at the last minute to this issue, how can we really know how many people changed their minds over the last week?

I know Matt thinks the free-trade orthodoxy of the establishment is the bee's knees, but Democratic voters don't. If I were Obama in Pennsylvania, I'd say loudly that I'm not going to sign on to a NAFTA-like deal without heavily scrutinizing the fine print. As Matt and Ezra have fairly noted, the free-trade issue is not the best context for discussing the decline of labor and manufacturing, but it is at least a way of signaling that you give a shit about those issues. The pushback from Obama on the Goolsbee flap was too weak and needs to be fixed, now. Edwards would be kicking her ass in debates on this issue, and Obama should too.

Matt, curious why you don't acknowledge the Goolsbee story may have been greatly exaggerated by the right-wing Canadian politicians who leaked it to the press. It seems like there's good evidence this was a deliberate attempt to interfere in the Democratic process and muddy the waters in order to help the GOP.

The meeting with the Canadian consulate was not the problem, what was said to the Canadian consulate was not the problem, how it was handled when it came out (although the initial reporting was extremely inaccurate) was the problem.

If Obama had come out and said that yes, Gooslbee met with the Canadians at their request and basically just reiterated what he has been saying on the campaign trail and, by the way, some one from Clinton's staff also was asked to speak to the consulate and it would be nice to know what they told the Canadians, it might have softened the blow a lot.

And I am curious, since the Canadians have reported speaking to members of both campaigns, and I am sure NAFTA came up in both instances, just what did the Clinton campaign tell them?

I think John is right - it is how Obama handled the meeting that is the problem.

And the problem going forward is not that NAFTA is a bad issue for Clinton, but that Obama cannot press it w/o bringing the Goolsbee debacle back into focus. It takes away Obama's ability to attack on it.

What the other john said - the Obama campaign handled that terribly.

That being said, the Canadian government behaved shamefully in the whole thing.

And Tony - yeah, the numbers for Republicans are definitely highly suspicious, when compared to previous contests.

He has 7 weeks to make the point. Just come out and say, "this is what I'm going to do and listen up Canada." These stories get play if they're dropped into a chaotic news cycle with little chance to respond. Not the case here.

Look, there were people attacking Obama on gay rights because of one of his supporters even though Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA were "signatures" of the Clinton adminsitration. He's made that ground up by speaking truth to a lot of African-American audiences about the damaging effects of homophobia. As long as he walks the walk on NAFTA, nobody is going to give a rat's ass about Goolsbee when it's all said and done.

Punctuation can be your friend.

Let me just say, the Clintons putting out a fake news ad on the Ohio radio stations is a new low, lower than mocking Obama's supporters.

Don't over think it. Obama lost because the demographic favored Hillary. At this point in the race the line is drawn. Hillary wins in states like Ohio because the people are older and basically more conservative. They like the Clinton brand.

Claiming it's how x handled y is bogus. Every politician has a crappy handling of an issue a dozen times a day.

Even if you think that the sort of investor- and multinational manufacturer-preferred "trade" deals such as NAFTA are teh best thing EVAR!!!, it hardly seems a signal Democratic accomplishment for Bill Clinton to have taken a deal negotiated largely under Bush Sr. before Clinton was President and then pass it with a majority of Republicans over a majority of Democrats in both houses.

More of Matt's wishful thinking.

The Rezko debacle has so many facets: Saddam's banker, bribes for contracts in Iraq, shadowy Syrian politics..etc.

The public just got done memorizing the name Rezko. Pretty soon, they will have a Rezko file in their heads. They will add the names Auchi and Alsamarrae to this file over the next few weeks. It will all sound too weird, unwholesome and un-American for your regular joe.

And then, there's Barack in a turban.

Come back to reality, guys.

More of Matt's wishful thinking.

The Rezko debacle has so many facets: Saddam's banker, bribes for contracts in Iraq, shadowy Syrian politics..etc.

The public just got done memorizing the name Rezko. Pretty soon, they will have a Rezko file in their heads. They will add the names Auchi and Alsamarrae to this file over the next few weeks. It will all sound too weird, unwholesome and un-American for your regular joe.

And then, there's Barack in a turban.

Come back to reality, guys.

Ringo, does the fact that you seem to emphasize Obama's heritage as a reason he will not or should not win please you because you are yourself a racist or because you enjoy unearned feelings of intellectual superiority?

obama did handle the response poorly. in fact, much of last night seems a result of poor decisions: not batting down the NAFTA story fast enough, not pushing back on the clinton big-media-meanies argument, and not going after the myth of her "experience" hard enough early enough.

mencken, my biggest reservation about Obama has always been my fear that he actually believes all this stuff about "a new politics." If he can't do rapid-response and vicious counter-attacks, then what does he expect is going to happen?

Whatever problems we have with NAFTA, don't really apply to Canada, do they? I would guess (not actually knowing and being too lazy to check) that Canada has environmental and labor safeguards fairly close to ours, if not better. Our workers and Canada's compete on a more-or-less level playing field. The response from the Obama camp perhaps should have cited these facts.

This comment of Yglesias's says everything one needs to know about how difficult it is to argue a nuanced position during a campaign:

"One has to suspect that the underlying reality is that an Obama administration's economic team really would be much more sympathetic to trade deals than Obama's rhetoric was suggesting."

Who wouldn't be sympathetic to trade? The issue at hand is NAFTA, but Yglesias, like so many reporters before him--particularly avowed free-traders like himself--equates opposition to NAFTA with being anti-trade. The latter position is simply impossible: trade is a natural, eons-old human endeavour, and the world economy collapses without it. The point Obama and others have tried to make is that NAFTA is not actually a "free trade" document--it is protectionist when it comes to some things (like the limits placed on foreign-trained professionals, like doctors and nurses), and somewhat more globalized when it comes to other things (like importing fuel from Canada). The phrase "anti-trade" is meaningless, especially when not applied in the context of a candidate's position on any particular trade document.

My guess is that Goolsbee talked less about NAFTA and more about trade in general--which is somethign the Canadians would want to be reassured about.

You all should read this, and watch the video linked to therein. It is telling.

David B., sure, spring the "you're a racist" attack. Americans don't like to be bullied this way, just keep that in mind. They may protest something to your face, but they'll punish the bully when left alone behind the voting booth curtain.

Obama's "kumbaya moment" is over. In the real world, Americans have prejudices, and even if they've gotten over the whole black thing, they're not going to embrace a candidate looking like a Somali warlord.

In the real world, even if Americans have gotten over the ethnic name Obama, they're not going to stomach all the other ethnic names in tow: Rezko, Auchi, Alsamarrae.

In the real world, Hillary wins.

The sooner you understand that, the sooner we can take on McCain.

Even if you think that the sort of investor- and multinational manufacturer-preferred "trade" deals such as NAFTA are teh best thing EVAR!!!, it hardly seems a signal Democratic accomplishment for Bill Clinton to have taken a deal negotiated largely under Bush Sr. before Clinton was President and then pass it with a majority of Republicans over a majority of Democrats in both houses.

Ringo, Hillary should have thought of all of those compelling attributes in favor of her candidacy before she lost almost a dozen states in a row. It looks like it's a little late for her now. But, hey, if you want to do a Walter Mondale all over again, go for it!

I don't think this story helped any. Still, I think those of us who hang out on blogs tend to overstate how much information the average voter takes in, and I doubt 1 voter in 10 who went to the polls in Ohio had ever heard of the Goolsbee controversy.

Besides, no one believes the next president is going to repeal NAFTA.

In the real world, Hillary wins.

Because obviously in the real world Pi= 4.35677 and actual vote counts don't really count.


But hey, if you're plan is to put Hillary in the White House based on Dubya's infamous fuzzy math I'll happily jump on that bandwagon.

Sorry for the double post. I had an internet service interruption and forgot to doublecheck if the first post made it before the connection error message.

Dude, you were like "oooh, Obama's in a turban," and it's my bad for calling you on it? You assume people want to vote against Obama because of his heritage. It's only "bullying" if you assume the voters have a preexisting desire to vote for these reasons. The question is, why do you assume this after 40 states have voted and Obama's got an insurmountable delegate lead? People are being inspired to vote for Obama, not bullied or guilted into it. The only people immune are self-described "realists" who want to feel smart by projecting the very same fears the voters have rejected back onto them.

Clinton's problem is that she voted for the war. Anybody doubt she'd have locked it after New Hampshire if she voted against?

"That said, for the long haul isn't it a bit hard to imagine opposition to NAFTA continuing to be an issue that pays dividends for Hillary Clinton."

I thought JMM had the best take I've seen about this:

a lot of the suspicion in liberal policy circles toward Obama centered on Goolsbee and his positions on Social Security and social insurance generally.

The problem with Goolsbee exists even if you completely remove trade from the equation.

The problem with Goolsbee exists even if you completely remove his lying from the equation.

The problem with Goolsbee exists even if you completely remove his turning Obama into a liar from the equation.

The problem with Goolsbee is that he's managed to get the Obama campaign to take core positions on economics that are contrary to Democratic policy goals.

Not only should he have been fired immediately upon learning about Goolsbeegate, he should never have been hired in the first place.

Goolsbee is Obama's Mark Penn, and given his control over policy, would likely be even more destructive than Penn should his candidate win - a prospect that Goolsbee's presence makes less likely to happen, of course.

R. Vangala's comment above provides a link to a CBC broadcast which gives a different view of the Goolsbee situation. Please watch that before piling on further. It sounds like the conservative govt. in Canada deliberately set out to cause problems for Obama.

"As long as he walks the walk on NAFTA, nobody is going to give a rat's ass about Goolsbee when it's all said and done."

Two weeks ago only a few policy wonks knew who Goolsbee was whether that is background, economic philosophy or role in the Obama campaign and by implication in a future Obama Administration. Those of us who did and came at this from a more progressive approach were a little, or in some cases a lot, disturbed by the Goolsbee-Liebman-Cutler line. Obama supporters need to come to grips with the fact that he freely chose a very centrist, free market absolutist economic team with results that have popped up first in rhetoric on Social Security, then on mandates, and now on NAFTA. Now this is fine if like Matt you come at these issues from a center-left position to start with, but if you are in the camp that wants to push back on the 28 year record of Reaganism coupled with DLC style corporatism that has at every turn sold out workers in favor of the interests of capital you need to start smelling the coffee and at least reconciling yourself to the reality.

I know people and particular young people are excited by the message of change. Those of us who are a little older and more cynical are tempted to ask 'Change from what?' and 'Change to what?' I experienced an inspirational change agent in my lifetime. His name was Ronald Reagan and he changed all kinds of things. From my perspective almost everyone of these changes were bad things, but no one can deny that the Reagan Revolution was a real one.

We know, or have really good reason to believe, that at his core Obama is the quintessential social liberal, but frankly too many people of his generation and younger have fallen into a pattern of aversion to big government largely on bogus arguments from efficiency from economists in the Friedman strain. It may be somewhat of a caricature to call this Chicago style economics but not too much of one. What measure of social justice and environmental progress has been achieved over the last forty years, and in total that has been plenty, has come about because of big government and not despite it. We didn't get the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act by reaching out to corporate interests, they fought each every step of the way. Too many people ignore the actual history for some fantasy world in which corporations actually act in the public interest in the way they claim on TV and in print ads. Well historically it has never happened that way, instead democratic majorities have used government as a change agent to achieve pragmatic greatest good outcomes.

What does it tell you about Obama economic policy that he chose a Chicago Graduate School of Business professor to head it up, a professor who may or may not have been winking to the Canadians on NAFTA, but in any event is far from the second coming of FDR?

Iraq is important, over the short run the most important thing to get right. But over the medium to long term what this country needs is more economic justice and I am not getting a clear vision of how we get there with a starting point of Goolsbee-Liebman-Cutler. Will Obama push back on corporate interests in a way that Bill Clinton never seemed to be able to? That is a big question that isn't getting enough attention.


If I had been Goolsbee and had something "set up", I would very well g** d***** known to have g** d***** talked to the g** d***** campaign I was f***ing working for in one of the biggest f***ing fights of its life.

Those of us who did and came at this from a more progressive approach were a little, or in some cases a lot, disturbed by the Goolsbee-Liebman-Cutler line. Obama supporters need to come to grips with the fact that he freely chose a very centrist, free market absolutist economic team with results that have popped up first in rhetoric on Social Security, then on mandates, and now on NAFTA. Now this is fine if like Matt you come at these issues from a center-left position to start with, but if you are in the camp that wants to push back on the 28 year record of Reaganism coupled with DLC style corporatism that has at every turn sold out workers in favor of the interests of capital you need to start smelling the coffee and at least reconciling yourself to the reality.

What Bruce Webb said.

Without this particular bullshit, I'd be supporting Obama instead of opposing him.

Here's where we know he won't be more in thrall to corporatists than the other candidates. (1) His record for 20 years. (2) He doesn't take PAC or lobbyist money. (3) He is running against Hillary "I voted for the bill but I hoped it wouldn't pass" Clinton.

I mean, what's the issue with Goolsbee exactly? That Obama's willing to take advice from someone slightly more conservative than he is and who has his head up his ass when it comes to understanding politics? Hillary has Mark f-----g Penn! Obama supporters are "young" and "naive," as if they are the same, but when Hillary says she was lying for 15 years about NAFTA, the response is "oh, ok, she must be the 'progressive.'" Thanks for stopping by!

"I mean, what's the issue with Goolsbee exactly?"

Well, there's the lying and the turning his candidate into a liar business. But that's mostly a sideshow.

The real issue with Goolsbee is that of Obama's taking economic positions in opposition to Democratic policy goals.

The "issue with Goolsbee" question is a good one.

Since I haven't been a particularly close Obama watcher, have the reports of his unpopular and often anti-Democratic Party economic views been over-reported?

Is he merely one Obama adviser among many? Because it certainly seems to me that on more than one occasion, like Mark Penn, his public interventions have tended to damage his candidate.

His little commentary meeting with the Canadian friggin' government seems to have enormously damaged the Obama campaign. Are there numerous economic advisers on the Obama campaign going out and talking to different institutions & governments expressing other opinions & views on economic issues?

Or is it pretty much just him?

STOP CRYING OBAMABOY! YOU LOST! sore looser! When Obamas friends and financial backers are either in court or jail. Obama and his boytoy Axelrod are grasping at straws in desperate times. " These times are a changin" Looks like the media love affair with media coronated Obama is over and he cant handle the heat! time for him to get out and stay out of the kitchen.
OR...tell us about Rezko?, Renzi?, Former Dallas Mayor Hill? Mr.Aunchi? OR, his meeting with Canada, OR According to Muslim religion, father’s religion determines the religion of the offspring. Therefore, Obama was truly once a Muslim and the law in Islam called TAGIYEH which means you can lie about your religion in order to do good for Allah! what good is Obama hoping to do for Allah? OR, Obama agreeing and highly respecting the actions and opinions of his spiritual advisor Rev. Wright who has recently awarded Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam Minister with their churches highest award. Might I add Oprah attends the same church! OR Obama camp calling African-American superdelegates to target, harass and threaten,” said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver II (D-Mo.), a superdelegate who supports Clinton. Cleaver said black superdelegates are receiving “nasty letters, phone calls, threats, being called an Uncle Tom. Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., also is receiving several e-mails from individuals saying they won’t vote for her if she doesn’t change her support to Obama, she should vote for him because she, too, is black. Rep. John Lewis, a black civil rights icon, sadly enough has given into the racial threatning politics of the Obama camp and switched his support from Clinton to Obama.

VOTE FOR CLINTON, WE HAVE PLAYED WITH OPRAHBAMA LONG ENOUGH! we need a True American leader and thats not Obama.

Luke, you sound like a Freeper. Please take your garbage somewhere else.

El Cid,

McMegan did an interview with Goolsbee a few weeks ago which gives a good summary of his views and those of his candidate.

He is one of the main reasons I am planning to vote for Obama (and did in the Mass. primary), so I would imagine you won't like much of what he says.

It's well worth a listen, regardless.

The whole interview is about an hour long.
Third from the top:
http://www.theatlantic.com/audio/mcardle.mhtml

Petey,
1. Can you provide evidence that Goolsbee lied, other than the Canadian diplomat's paraphrasing of the conversation?
2. If you feel that Goolsbee's research findings are at odds with your conception of Democratic policy goals, how many respected economists are in fact in agreement with such Democratic policy goals?

By the way, those of you who are wondering whether Harper's government could be that nasty, and could be that loyal to Bush and McCain, yes, it is true, they are. The party as it currently exists is not the Conservative party of 80s, but a party filled to the brim with former WSJ types, some with really deep ties to right-wing American think-tanks. Not so long ago they deliberately announced the presence of the leader of the opposition on a tour in Afghanistan despite the huge risk that put the soldiers, let alone the leader of the opposition, in.


The social democratic New Democratic Party is demanding that the RCMP investigate. Let us hope that they do. Check the link below.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/309675


For those Tories who are upset by this note, it is true, this is just an Edmontonian Dipper's sour grapes after Stelmach's big win in Alberta. So ignore me.

Adamo

Thanks heedless, but my question wasn't about Goolsbee and his views himself, but his role and prominence in the campaign. Again, whether or not you like & support the views being pushed, Goolsbee's candidate was trying to make a point in a tense primary contest and his words and actions played into a PR chance to make his candidate look hypocritical.

Goolsbee could rightly point out that he was a thoroughly public figure long before his role in the Obama campaign and is therefore used to being in public policy discussions, but political reality seems to have rendered this disclaimer somewhat irrelevant.

It was Obama's choice to make NAFTA a public issue in the Ohio primary. Whether or not that was the 'right' approach to take was not Goolsbee's call to make; however, press accounts do indicate that he considers himself quite unusually close to Obama's ear on these matters.

So it's really a stupid conflict of priorities, regardless of one's economic and ideological preferences.

"how many respected economists are in fact in agreement with such Democratic policy goals?"

You may think Social Security and universal healthcare are bad ideas, nbt, but I think that just shows how out of the Democratic mainstream a lot of Obama supporters tend to be.

You seems to have confused "respected" economists with "Republican" economists. Those two terms may be synonymous for you, but obviously they aren't synonymous for actual Democrats.

It's amazing that Petey manages to be a single issue voter but knows nothing about that issue.

On one hand you have Obama's being consistently against NAFTA from before it was even an idea, working to organize the South Side of Chicago, opposing the bankruptcy bill, etc., and on the other hand you have Hillary Clinton running on the record of an administration that passed NAFTA, signed Republican Welfare Reform, and repealed Glass-Steagal.

On the other hand, Obama takes advice from an economist with a tin ear. To people who aren't Trotskyists, this isn't a big deal. What's next? Obama taught at the same law school as Richard Epstein? He must support Lochner!

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama:

Dear Madam, and Sir,

A Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama ticket is what we want. And that is what we need to take back the Whitehouse. We want a smart, tough, idealistic, seasoned veteran of many battles fighting for the American people (Hillary Clinton). With a young, passionate, smart, open-minded, hard-working idealist fighting for the American people (Barrack Obama). The DREAM TEAM!

You are both fabulous candidates. And we, the American people are very fortunate to have each of you. Taking back the Whitehouse is critical for the American people, and the world at this time. And I think the American people have been saying loudly, and clearly that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket is the best way to do this.

I think the American people have made it very clear that they feel Hillary Clinton is the one best able to lead the ticket against John McCain at this critical, and desperate time in America, and around the world. These dramatic comebacks are testament to Hillary Clinton's skill, and experience as a fighter for the American people. They are also a testament to the strong desire of the American people to have both of you fighting for the American people at this time of midnight in America.

Typical of the Clinton's is an uncanny ability to see and understand what the American people want. And then to try and get it for them. Even if they have to go through three political near death experiences to try and get it for the American people. This is classic Clinton's. They are the best I have ever seen.

We are desperate out here. Millions of us are suffering greatly. And tens of thousands of us are dying needlessly every year. Men, women, children, and babies. We need help! As Hillary Clinton said "It's not a game". We need the two of you together on our side fighting for us, and for the American dream for all. Not fighting against each other anymore.

It's time for you Senator Obama to join forces with Hillary Clinton as her running mate so that we can all focus our energies, and resources on taking back America for the American people.

Don't make me hurt you. :-)

Sincerely

Jacksmith...

Petey,
Well, I do like the idea of the government coercively forcing people to save for their old age, but if we were starting from scratch, I would create a private accounts system as in Chile so as to channel the money through the capital markets to promote investment and growth, rather than the current pay-as-you-go system that simply takes money from Iverson and puts it in Larry Brown's pocket. But that's neither here nor there. Overhauling Social Security as Bush wanted to would not be my top policy item as president, and my understanding is that the arithmetic is not there to transition from the current system to a private accounts system.

As for health care, I certainly like the idea of making health insurance affordable for everyone. I guess you are of the belief that Obama's plan is not economically viable for the insurance companies due to the adverse selection problem created by allowing healthy people to opt out, i.e. not buy insurance. I honestly don't know the answer to that one. What has been happening in Massachusetts, where there is a nontrivial amount of noncompliance?

You still didn't really answer my question about the economists. I read an article where Alan Blinder of Princeton suggested that free trade will lead to a lot of job losses ... but he still proclaims himself a "free trader". How many economists think that NAFTA was overall a bad deal for the USA?

The actual three page Canadian memo (scanned in) is at this link:

http://www.slate.com/id/2185753/entry/0/

Interestingly, in it the author of the memo (George Rioux) also says (on page 2, Item 7) that Goolsbee said, "Obama was less interested in fundamental changes to the agreement and more looking at clarifying language on labour mobility and environmental standards" and that "Obama wanted to work with Canada and Mexico to make labour and environment more core to the agreement".

This is a memo that someone wrote (possibly Rioux) who talked to someone (Gooslbee) about what he believed Obama wanted. First of all, it's a litte third hand if you ask me but even so, it seems to me that what Goolsbee believes Obama wants are GOOD THINGS. What is bad about wanting to clarify language about labor and the environment??
This also actually is in alignment with what he said in the Ohio debate (which I watched). It was Hillary who was questioned about repealing it and she talked about using that as a hammer to re-negotiate the agreement and then Obama agreed with her.

Additionally, this meeting happened back on Feb 8th (or maybe 9th) and the story is that "Obama's aide contacted Canada to tell them not to pay attention to what was said in last week's debate and then Obama lied when confronted about it". Looking into this closely, I'm hard pressed to see where he "lied" about anything.

Of course, very few in the press are striving to clarify any of this because it's probably just too boring and not a good juicy story.... We'd rather have a good juicy story any day than focus on issues that have any substance.

Jacksmith,

Obama has won 27 states. He has won the popular vote in all contested primaries and states. To suggest that this verdict means that Democrats want Hillary to lead the ticket is inaccurate.
On the contrary, it means that Democrats want Obama to lead the ticket.

As David Brooks says, "Demography is destiny."
The Ohio/Texas demographics were just more favorable to Hillary. Latinos/ethnic whites are backing the establishment candidate, despite the fact that Obama is the superior candidate.

Jacksmith,

Obama has won 27 states. He has won the popular vote in all contested primaries and states. To suggest that this verdict means that Democrats want Hillary to lead the ticket is inaccurate.
On the contrary, it means that Democrats want Obama to lead the ticket.

As David Brooks says, "Demography is destiny."
The Ohio/Texas demographics were just more favorable to Hillary. Latinos/ethnic whites are backing the establishment candidate, despite the fact that Obama is the superior candidate.

You know, I think this finally explains for me why Paul Krugman generally can't stand Obama.

It's not just Obama's expressed policies, etc.

Maybe what's going on is that Krugman, being an economist, hates Obama's prickish center-right adviser team of economic advisers. Yes Goolsbee, but also David Custer & Jeffrey Liebman.

http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/obamas-economic-advisers/

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=4d40a39e-8f57-4054-bd99-94bc9d19be1a

"You know, I think this finally explains for me why Paul Krugman generally can't stand Obama. It's not just Obama's expressed policies, etc. Maybe what's going on is that Krugman, being an economist, hates Obama's prickish center-right adviser team of economic advisers. Yes Goolsbee, but also David Custer & Jeffrey Liebman."

But, of course, it's not an either/or proposition.

Krugman and Bruce Webb and Petey and other economic lefties can't stand Obama's team precisely because of what they mean for Obama's policies.

Petey,

I'm not in the best position to judge (I'm in favor of most of what you don't like about Obama), but my impression is that the vehemence of Krugman's and your opposition to Obama is out of proportion to his heresies.

He is not running against Edwards, a consistent populist to Obama's left on every issue of importance. He is running against Hillary Clinton. As in NAFTA, DOMA, end-of-welfare-as-we-know-it Clinton. (For the record, DOMA was an abomination, but I'm more or less favorably inclined to the other two.)

If you consider Obama's occasional forays in DLCism to be a dealbreaker, fair enough. What confuses me (one member of a very large set, anyway) is that you then go on to support the candidate of the DLC, herself.


PS: El Cid (if you're still reading) I believe that Goolsbee discusses his role in the campaign during the interview. I forget what segment though, and it may not be worth your while to track it down.
For what it's worth, I tend to think the Canada flap was a gaffe in it's purest sense. A politician accidentally telling the truth.

I think the real problem is that he has been attacking Hillary Clinton over NAFTA with outright lies it seems to be. Say one thing and do another. That's the real problem with the Obama campaign. Hypocritical...that's the real problem. He tried to distort her record after preaching about negative politics and new politics and yadda yadda but yet there he goes attacking and distorting her record. It came back to haunt him. I hope he learns his lesson here. It kinda serves him right I think. Mr. know it all doesn't really know it all now does he?

While your article tries to pin NAFTA support on Hillary, the truth is that insiders in the Clinton whitehouse have all said that Hillary was NOT pleased with NAFTA. In fact, David Gorgan (CNN), who worked in the Clinton Whitehouse professed this last week during one of the discussions on NAFTA.

Just because Bill Clinton passed the bill, does not mean that Hillary didn't have grave concerns about it. I have no doubt that she is committed to the environmental, labor and human rights protections that NAFTA (and many other labor agreements) currently lack.

Clinton's campagin did what they accused Obama's campaign of doing.

Globe & Mail

In clinical psychology, we call it "projection."

David B., sure, spring the "you're a racist" attack. Americans don't like to be bullied this way, just keep that in mind. They may protest something to your face, but they'll punish the bully when left alone behind the voting booth curtain....

Posted by Ringo Meza | March 5, 2008 12:39 PM

Ringo,

This is a crucial point which I believe Obama very much understands, from what I've read written by him, but that quite a few of his supporters on the net don't quite get yet. And I don't understand why his supposedly net-savvy campaign is not paying attention to that yet. I suspect that if he wins the nomination, there might be a Sister Souljah moment or two if it continues.

Luke @ 2:50 PM

Take your adolescent rants and riffs somewhere else, please.

Clinton's campagin did what they accused Obama's campaign of doing.

Globe & Mail

In clinical psychology, we call it "projection."

Thank you, C. Lawrence.

Clinton's campagin did what they accused Obama's campaign of doing.

Globe & Mail

In clinical psychology, we call it "projection."

Thank you again, C. Lawrence.

Anybody want to address this?

The sad thing about this debate over NAFTA is that the majorities in all three countries involved--Mexico, the United States, and Canada, really are being hurt by the current form of NAFTA.

In Canada, the Harper administration is horrifying Canadians by their actions and extremism. Canadians voted for a change in government in 2006 after the Liberal Party there got too corrupt after 13 years in power.

In Mexico, the leftist anti-NAFTA party came within 43,000 votes (less than half a percentage point) of winning the presidency. And conservative Felipe Calderon is under intense pressure to modify some aspects (especially grain and subsidies). NAFTA has caused subsistence farming to no longer be viable (i.e., feeding your kid), which has a direct impact on migration to the United States.

In the United States, well-paying jobs are being lost and environmental and labor protection are being sacrificed.

While Clinton and Obama need to fight for whatever they can, its sad because this is an area where, I think, new governments in all three countries (and Calderon if it were connected to immigration) could modify NAFTA so that it really served the interests of the people in the region. (I'm counting on an early Harper defeat--my Canadian family are shocked and aghast that a Canadian administration can be so bad...)

If Paul Krugman hates Obama's economic advisors, why doesn't he actually critique them directly?

I can understand why Petey doesn't -- Petey can't even name *any* of the differences and commonalities of the various health insurance proposals, despite his bluster about how it's the most important issue of all time.

So he has to resort to linking to blogs that attempt to critique David Culter by pointing out that he advised Bill Clinton.

But Krugman is someone who may win the Nobel Prize in economics. So why doesn't he challenge Goolsbee, Culter, and Liebman head on?

Cutler, not Culter.

And actually that was El Cid linking to Louis Proyect. Sorry.

The Canadians apologized for the leak, not the contents of the memo.

Barbar: I have no idea. I just made a guess. It just made a little more sense to me to think of one economist having deep-seated animus against rival economists, not just a political candidate which overall is pretty similar to the other. As to why, to an economist, your economic team might say all they need to know about you. Actually, that's the view of many of Obama's opponents.

It's a shame that Obama's concern for ethical dealings in American public life doesn't extend to Canadians. After the Canadian economy has been completely restructured to work in sync with the American, it's pretty low for anyone in our much larger and less vulnerable trading to talk about ripping up the NAFTA treaty that did all this, especially since it isn't even NAFTA that's to blame for the United States' economic issues. Good people don't jettison contracts because they are inconvenient.

I expected more out of him, but it turns out that he's a politician after all.

He deserves his loss.


Comments closed March 19, 2008.

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