« Fallacies of Literalism | Main | Leaks Needed » A Bit Confused02 Apr 2008 01:11 pm Via Kieran Healy, the Pew Center finds some confusion among Obama haters, as "Nearly one-in-ten (9%) of those who heard a lot about Wright still believe that Obama is Muslim." Of course in a world where a politician can repeatedly confuse Iran with al-Qaeda and be specifically lauded for his knowledge of national security issues, I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect people to know that Muslims don't have pastors. Comments (32)
I would be surprised if more than 91% of Americans understood that the word 'Muslim' referred to a religion rather than an ethnicity. Or indeed, really understood the distinction between words like 'Arab', 'Persian', 'Muslim', 'Islamic', etc. The least informed 9% of us are pretty ill informed. 
Those are folks who I would call dead ender racists. Even where the source of that hate is totally illogical, they just don't care.
C'mon, Matt, the formulation is easy: Black pastor + Funny clothes = Muslim White pastor + "9-11/Katrina/floods/earthquakes were caused by gays/liberals/Democrats" = Christian Got it now?
Religious leaders who rant about the evil of American foreign policy do tend to be Muslim... and 9% is really not a lot.
Maybe the Farrakhan friendship is throwing that 9% off, or they heard that Obama's has a special two week orientation program for Muslims -- or maybe they think Obama was a Muslim before he joined that church in his mid-twenties, and is pretending to be a Christian to be politically viable.
Matt, I don't think it's an issue of racism so much as just good old-fashioned ethnic ignorance. A disturbing number of people conflate "Muslim" with an ethnicity, much like the disconnect between those of Hebrew descent being Jews (or not) and those who merely practice the Jewish faith but are of, say, western-European ancestry. To that end, it's reasonable (to an ignoramus) for someone to have been "born a Muslim" and that they will always be one. This is also why so many don't see a difference between a Sunni vs. a Shia, an Arab vs. a Persian, etc. They're all turrists.
I would be surprised if more than 91% of Americans understood that the word 'Muslim' referred to a religion rather than an ethnicity. Um, unless I'm mistaken, "Muslim" is an ethnic label.
Elias, You are mistaken, and that's part of the larger point about the public's confusion. Your race and culture your ancestry came from are your ethnicity. One's religion is chosen and thus is purely culteral. Would you consider Methodist or Catholic to be an ethnicity?
the truthe is very hard to find.
Elias, You are mistaken, and that's part of the larger point about the public's confusion. Your race and culture your ancestry came from are your ethnicity. One's religion is chosen and thus is purely culteral. Would you consider Methodist or Catholic to be an ethnicity?
right, don't worry, I'm sure there will be plenty of frothing at the mouth from America's supposed Christian leaders about President Obama's foreign policy. And who was it that defended Charles Taylor and advocated assassinating Chavez? Some great Christian, huh?
According to the Oxford English Dictionary--the online/library database version--Muslim, as a noun, refers to someone who follows the religion of Islam. The first instance of its usage in English print is from 1615: "1615 W. BEDWELL Arabian Trudgman in tr. Mohammedis Imposturæ sig. Nv, Muslim, or Mussliman,..is one that is instructed in the beleefe of the Mohammetanes."
C'mon! John McCain still needs Joe Lieberman by his side to remind him there's a difference between Sunni and Shia. On Boston NPR, a listener called in to question a panel of esteemed Europeans, basically asking: "What will you do about al Qaeda when they hit one of YOUR buildings? Will finally do something about Muslims?" My hat was off to the French diplomat who kept his cool in response. Conceding that the numbers weren't as large as 9/11, but reminding the listener that hundreds had been killed in London and Madrid bombings, and that Europe is doing a lot behind the scenes investigating possible Muslim extremists. Call me cynical, but I couldn't help but think the caller had never even heard of the Atocha or London tube bombings. The fact is we're a ridiculously ill-informed country. In 2000, PBS' News Hour had a lengthy piece on how TV news stations in Japan, Russia, England and Germany each gave at least 5 times the daily coverage of the US presidential race as their American counterparts. Truly embarrassing...
C'mon! John McCain still needs Joe Lieberman by his side to remind him there's a difference between Sunni and Shia. On Boston NPR, a listener called in to question a panel of esteemed Europeans, basically asking: "What will you do about al Qaeda when they hit one of YOUR buildings? Will finally do something about Muslims?" My hat was off to the French diplomat who kept his cool in response. Conceding that the numbers weren't as large as 9/11, but reminding the listener that hundreds had been killed in London and Madrid bombings, and that Europe is doing a lot behind the scenes investigating possible Muslim extremists. Call me cynical, but I couldn't help but think the caller had never even heard of the Atocha or London tube bombings. The fact is we're a ridiculously ill-informed country. In 2000, PBS' News Hour had a lengthy piece on how TV news stations in Japan, Russia, England and Germany each gave at least 5 times the daily coverage of the US presidential race as their American counterparts. Truly embarrassing...
And the proper term for a Muslim pastor is "lama": http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/02/obamas_lama_problem/
Hey, Matt: It's now been months since you finally read "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance." Since then, you've posted thousands of opinions on hundreds of topics, but the only thing you've had to say about the autobiography of your candidate for President of the United States is that his book is well-written. Are you ever going to favor us with any further opinions on the book? Steve
My understanding, John Richard, is that the word "ethnicity" refers to one's cultural group, often expressed through the mode of nationality or religious affiliation. Thus, "Norwegian" or "American" or "Hispanic" -- or "Ashkenazi" (or "Muslim") -- are ethnicities.
So being Jewish is strictly a religious affiliation now despite the whole matrilineal descent thing? Most interesting data in the survey is more blacks than whites were offended by Wright, and 10% of the black respondents think Obama is a Muslim.
American is not an ethnicity. Muslim is not an ethnicity. Catholic is not an ethnicity. Protestant is not an ethnicity. I'm not sure where you got your definition from, Elias.
So being Jewish is strictly a religious affiliation now despite the whole matrilineal descent thing? My understanding is: Yes. Judaism is a religion, and "the whole matrilineal descent thing" is one of its (relatively minor) institutional features. Some Jews, of course, choose to express their cultural identity with a level of devotional fervor that, to other people, might come across as "slightly less than full throttle." The only overtly Jewish activities that these people undertake could be an occasional visit to temple. For others, maybe it goes not much further than latkes. But Jewishness is a religious value, even when it is expressed in a relatively circumscribed manner. That is why it is incoherent, for example, to identify oneself as a "Jewish Muslim" -- even with "the whole matrilineal descent thing."
Assuming Obama makes it to the general election, I think he really has to ratchet up the Jesus talk. He would probably help himself if he started now. I don't think many presidential candidates have been hurt by talking about Jesus. This may be one of the rare elections when the Democrat may be more comfortable talking about Jesus than the Republican candidate, and Obama would do well to reach out to evangelicals.
More proof of my theory that some irreducible minimum of people (around 5-10%) will report believing just about any crazy thing you can imagine. So the good news is that if you get the relevant craziness number down to around that level, you have pretty much done your best to inform people on that matter.
uhm, Elias, there are so many atheists and agnostics who self-identified or are commonly identified as Jews, that your statement falls flat or are you saying that Sigmund Freud and Philip Roth aren't Jews?
I love it when commenters to a blog give the propreiter assignments on what he should write. hey, if you want to assign a topic to me, I'll write about it for 50 cents a word. Deal?
Look, if some cat wants to incorporate agnosticism or atheism into his Judaism, who am I to stop him? (Note: some people might disagree with this approach.) I, however, say: go for it, Freud! If you want to identify yourself with the Jewish religion while, at the same time, expressing some measure of deity-skepticism—and your desire for this cultural identification is sincere—who am I to take your Judaism away from you? But that's not all! Behold: my theological tolerance extends elsewhere. For example, I don't come all unglued when Christians describe themselves as agnostic. In fact, I remain so placid that, most of the time, I don't even threaten to make indignant phone calls directly to the Pope. (Obviously, other people might feel differently, concluding that agnosticism is incompatible with Christianity.) The point is that, even under a liberal ecumenical rubric of sorts, "Christian" and "Jewish" do not cease to be religious terms. If they did, then "Jewish Muslim" would be a cogent term.
20% of Americans (according to NYT) believe the sun revolves around the Earth. I would guess that less than that know what the difference is between Sunnis and Shiites.
No surprise here. These are the same morons who shot a Sikh after 9/11 because they thought the mere fact that he was wearing a turban made him a "Muslim". There's no limit to human stupidity and ignorance. It makes the size of the universe look small. Most of these jerks can't find Iraq or any other Muslim country on a map. They can't even find freakin' Italy on a map. You ever see that interview back in 2002 or 2003 where they asked random people on the street where Iraq was? Quite a few thought it was sixty miles off the coast of Florida! I'm serious! They thought Cuba was Iraq! You can't actually believe how stupid and ignorant the average American is. But people like Al and Fred and Mixner and Ford should be convincing evidence.
The Obama haters are just ignorant people, willing to believe any and every negative lie about Obama. Fortunately, there are far more Obama lovers than haters.
Sometimes people, don't know the most basic details; like the fact that Bob Dole was a
Of course Pastor Wright is a Muslim. No one who isn't a Muslim hates America that much.
My theory about Obama haters still thinking he's Muslim is that they think being Muslim is a race and not a religion.
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Heads in the Sand
Forget the confusion, they're just dumb. Low information voters are Hillary's and McCain's base right now.
Posted by Jake | April 2, 2008 1:39 PM