You just won a prize.
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Good Work Commenters
15 Apr 2008 09:09 am
Comments (63)
Yes, but by percentage we still have a lower racist quotient than Andrew Sullivan's blog. So there's that.
Big of you to admit to it, stras.
I've never commented on here before, but I must say some of the people who do are quite ridiculous. I guess this sort of thing flows like an underground river in the democratic party.
you must be so proud
If you want some competition, trek on over to McArdle's place. You can get gems like this: "Barack Obama is an elitist, racist, upper-class scumbag,"
Is it dinner with Fuzzy Zoeller?
I guess this sort of thing flows like an underground river in the democratic party.
I understand that right-wing blogs aren't the echo chambers that they once were, but left-wing blogs have traditionally been come-all-ye affairs. Al, Chris Ford, Fred, Sailer and their elk AREN'T Democrats.
Oh, it doesn't really matter if they're democrats or not. It's nice to know that those responsible for those comments aren't of my party affiliation, but still, I've met many a democrat who'd say very similar things.
Al, Chris Ford, Fred, Sailer and their elk AREN'T Democrats.
I think the elk belongs to the Bull Moose party.
Some of the commenters at the link are attempting the "You can only say "boy" is racist if you're reading the mind of the person who says it!" argument. The force of ignorance is strong in cyberspace.
Why should Chris Ford get all the onlinelove? The commenters on the self-replicating printer deserve a prize.
what are you saying about the patron Saint of Badass, Teddy Roosevelt?
It's not so much racism per se that's rampant here as simple, all-purpose bigotry.
We've not only got folks who think an actual Federal official from the South might not know that in 2008 it's at least impolitic to refer to an adult Black man as "boy", we've got others who have no problem at all calling people trolls, morons, Nazis, baby-killers, war-mongers, and worse because they might hold opinions on recent historical facts not vetted by Code Pink.
Which is worse, the persecution of Jew commies, bourgeoisie class enemies, "neocons", or nigger welfare queens? For a site associated with a pretty decent intellectual publication, this one is incredibly narrow-minded in terms of actual ideas.
Why should Chris Ford get all the onlinelove? The commenters on the self-replicating printer deserve a prize.
Yes. I'm not really sure why the Crooked Timber guy singled out the commenters here for notice--all the political blogs I read seem to have at least few far-right trolls-in-residence.
The problem in awarding prizes to such nut cases as Ford or Sailer is that you have to break it down to certain categories.
Jew-fearing Neo-Confederates insisting we focusing on the mud-blooding from illegal immigration could have no better competitor than Chris Ford; on the other hand, Ford would have a hard time besting Sailer in the Race & IQ category.
Any liberal/progressive site will be over run with dorks, insecure, neurotic crypto and not so crypto-Zionists, and callow sophists. It's like they know how they really belong at Littlegreenfootballs is, but can't really admit it so they pullulate like maggots at more "enlightened" sites hoping to make their mark. There really ought to be a way to funnel these people to some 'Mother Jones' offshoot where they can fulminate daily about the joys of Pesach and how an Obama Presidency will threaten their admission to law school.
Al-bots
I am trying to decide whether Belle Waring is actually referring to me, or to parodiers (is that a word?) elsewhere. After all, I never comment on Ezra Klein's blog. I would like to think that the comments actually made by me resulted in her extreme case of cognitive dissonance (which is surely not caused her own beloved Crooked Timber echo chamber), but perhaps not.
Re Powell's comment "We've not only got folks who think an actual Federal official from the South might not know that in 2008 it's at least impolitic to refer to an adult Black man as "boy", "
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Not the South. More like the Deep Midwest. Hillary Country.
Can't any of you people read a map?
james, I'm not a guy. and it's true that this sort of troll is endemic to left blogs, but I really think there's something special about the mis-match between blog content and commenters here...y'all are special. sailer and his ilk seem to me to be actively sabotaging the place, rather than just happening to like posting at liberal blogs all day.
1. CT's comment section is often a disaster.
2. I didn't really read that thread, but, on the whole, Sailer catches too much grief. I find it impossible not to call him a racist--I don't know what other word there is to describe him--but let's admit that it seems to be a neurotic racism rather than one driven by animus.
let's admit that it seems to be a neurotic racism rather than one driven by animus.
True but irrelevant.
We won!
Gabriel wrote:
"Yes, but by percentage we still have a lower racist quotient than Andrew Sullivan's blog. So there's that."
Gabriel, Andrew Sullivan's blog does not have comments; so how exactly are you able to determine the "racist quotient" of his blog readership?
trolls? moi?
CT (and Volokh) have been infested with their own trolls far more insufferable than the caricatures that post here. I prefer my self-righteous indignation free from pretense so you can at least chuckle and wonder if the irony is intended or not.
Bravo to to the blogs that resist censorship, but I wouldn't mind if MY took the occasional opportunity to say "you are a mindless piece of shit, please go away." John Cole has practically built a career that way.
Gabriel wrote:
"Yes, but by percentage we still have a lower racist quotient than Andrew Sullivan's blog. So there's that."
Gabriel, Andrew Sullivan's blog does not have comments; so how exactly are you able to determine the "racist quotient" of his blog readership?
Re line's comment "I guess this sort of thing flows like an underground river in the democratic party "
------------------
Hmmm.
Howard Dean , From Nov 2003 USA Today:
"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," the former Vermont governor said in a telephone interview quoted in Saturday's Des Moines Register. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."
Ref: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/2003-11-02-dean-flag_x.htm
Anybody know what Howard Dean's current job is?
You effete, sherry-sipping snobs need to get out more.
This may, in a way, be good news. I maintain that the quality of Matthew Yglesias's comment threads bears a strongly inverse relationship to his level of success and fame. Probably wealth, too. The release of the book has brought Yglesias to new heights of success; new lows in the comment threads are to be expected.
He won!
Belle--Whoops, very sorry for assuming you were male. As the song goes, "I'm so hip I call my mother 'man,'" except in my case it's that I call everyone "dude," regardless of gender.
Your point about Sailer et al. being active sabotageurs rather than just obnoxious trolls is actually a good one. I suppose the main reason why this is my favorite blog (and, in fact, the only one I regularly read the comments on) is that even the nutjobs here seem generally* engaged intellectually--if their positions are extreme, they at least have some reasoning behind them.
*With a few exceptions whom I will not dignify by naming.
At times we can probably also point to a very, very high rate of Haim Saban mentions, probably more so than nearly any widely-read blog. (Or so I will postulate with zero time wasted researching this.)
"Belle--Whoops, very sorry for assuming you were male."
Dude, she's named Belle.
A Boy Named Belle would probably grow up to be very, very tough.
There was actually a high level of discourse going on there if you chose to sift through the garbage posts.
And yes there were complete garbage posts on both sides of the issue. I don't see the point in singling out the ignorance on one side and not the other.
Anybody know what Howard Dean's current job is?
I'm pretty sure it isn't President, which is, IIRC, the job he was looking for at the time.
and "Al", consider this, and plenty more where that came from. you have to look at the Al-bot duty roster more carefully next time you're in the break room.
"Anybody know what Howard Dean's current job is?"
-----------
I don't want to keep all of you ill-informed provincials in suspense, so I'll answer:
Howard Dean is Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
It was a conspiracy , course. A conspiracy of Jew-fearing, Pickup-Driving, Neo-confederates who are also spelunkers who like to wade in underground rivers.
You effete, sherry-sipping snobs need to get out more.
I love this kind of comment. It has all the rhetorical bite of a monkey flinging his poo.
For the record, I'm a Democrat who lives in (gasp) New York City and I have no idea what sherry tastes like. Or lattes for that matter. I drink beer and black coffee. And as for the "effete" slur, I don't know exactly how to rebut that to your satisfaction, other than by offering to kick your ass.
Next time you want to do all of your thinking in stereotype, try using your fricking brain instead. I'm sure my questioning your intelligence makes me sound condescending and "elite." But in your case that just can't be helped.
I think the issue isn't the right wing super trolls like Chris Ford, or right wing nut jobs like Sailer. (Or even slightly less odious right wing trolls like Fred or the only mildly odious Al) They are to be expected. It's the supposed liberals who apparently agree that there's nothing racist about a 49 year old white man calling a 46 year old black man a "boy" that are particularly dispiriting.
Re "I'm pretty sure it isn't President, which is, IIRC, the job he was looking for at the time."
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As were John Kerry and Bob Gephardt. What happened to those two guys? ---did someone stuff their bodies into that underground river?
I don't want to keep all of you ill-informed provincials in suspense, so I'll answer: Howard Dean is Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
Was there a point somewhere in there, perhaps disguised in an anagram?
Thie comment section here really is pretty awesome. It's got the most distintive 'characters' outside a Tolkien story.
Let's take a moment to recognize the Yglesias All-Stars:
Steve Sailor: What can one add? The Kobe Bryant of trolls in that all the superlatives that can be said have already been said. Does everthing a troll is supposed to do- derail threads to his own personal obessions. A perennial All-Star
Al: Can Al really be known? Elusive yet ubiquitous, Al is the wingnut in us all. (His opinions on the NBA are quite cogent, it must be said)
Chris Ford: A long winded erstwhile polymath with a Hunter S Thompson meets Guns and Ammo prose style. Occasionally offers insight, but always brings the bigotry. Tell us more about the JYeeeews, Chris!
Don Williams: The linkmeister with apocalyptic worldview. Losing his edge as his anger starting to get the better of him at times. Take a rest, Don. Get a massage, watch the Three Stooges- the end of the American Republic has already been set in motion. Complaining just makes you look bitter, and you know how being bitter looks.
SLC: A reasonable, often insightful chap until you accidently cough in a manner that could somehow, someway possibly be construed as being slightly negative towards Israel. Avoid this topic with him at all costs unless you enjoy 200 post comment threads on the Israel-Palestine conflict, which we all can agree totally changes peoples views on the topic and is never a waste of energy.
Robert Powell: The Paul Berman of the comment section. Does a pitch perfect inflection of the Very Serious Person, more-in-sorrow-than anger tisk-tisking of anti-war partisans. People of his view are comletely embedded in our ruling class, ensuring that we will stay in Iraq for a long-time and preserve American hegemony in the Middle East. Fine, we admit- the imperialists won
Petey: Loves John Edwards and Allen Iverson. Hates trust-fund scumbags. Thought Isiah Thomas was doing a good job rebuilding the Knicks and that Hillart Clinton is the perfect candidate to enact health care reform. Why? Who the fuck knows! Just assert things often enough and they start to make sense. (By the way- The Denver Nuggets will not make it past the first round. Yes, George Karl should probably be fired)
Those are just my selections of people who make this blog great. Who are YOUR favorite Yglesias commenters?
SCMT/Freddie:
but let's admit that it seems to be a neurotic racism rather than one driven by animus.
True but irrelevant.
I guess it depends what you mean by animus.
If you observe the fascination/contempt at/by which he's treating Mrs. Obama on the "Gaffes" thread, there seems to be some animus. Not sure you could chalk up his "interest" to neurosis.
He is a pretty bitter fellow, and instead of "clinging to guns" and/or "religion,"* he's chosen racism.
*apologies for the gaffe.
and "Al", consider this, and plenty more where that came from. you have to look at the Al-bot duty roster more carefully next time you're in the break room.
Well, Belle, I commented at TAPPED when Matthew was a part of TAPPED. To be fair, I didn't completely restrict my commenting at TAPPED to Matthew's posts; I occasionally commented on other posts there. But I basically stopped after Matthew stopped posting there.
I am impressed that you remember my TAPPED comments from two years ago, though!
Belle Waring,
"sailer and his ilk seem to me to be actively sabotaging the place, rather than just happening to like posting at liberal blogs all day."
Speaking for myself, I am neither trying to sabotage Matt's blog nor do I "like posting at liberal blogs all day". This is pretty much the only liberal blog I read.
You may find this shocking, but some of us actually enjoy reading the opinions of smart people we disagree with. That's part of the reason I subscribe to the NY Times and watch Bill Maher's show on HBO. I would find it boring to comment on a blog where everyone shared my political opinions: what would there be to debate?
That you would consider adding traffic, offering different points of view, and stimulating discussion to be equivalent to "sabotage" is discouraging for the broader prospects of the political blogosphere, and for soi-disant "liberalism" as well.
By the way, I had never heard of you until Matt mentioned you in this post.
By the way, I had never heard of you until Matt mentioned you in this post.
Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I will just observe that Belle is basically the originator of the 'And a pony!' gag, so in that regard alone she qualifies as a titanic figure in the liberal blogosphere.
http://examinedlife.typepad.com/johnbelle/2004/03/if_wishes_were_.html
Ryan,
"Not sure what that has to do with anything,"
I just found it odd to be mentioned on a blog I had never visited before clicking on Matt's link, when I am not even a blogger myself, but just a random commenter.
"but I will just observe that Belle is basically the originator of the 'And a pony!' gag, so in that regard alone she qualifies as a titanic figure in the liberal blogosphere."
Yeah, I guess that expression of wit would make her the veritable William F. Buckley of the liberal blogosphere.
Gabriel, Andrew Sullivan's blog does not have comments; so how exactly are you able to determine the "racist quotient" of his blog readership?
Well, Sullivan posts there, doesn't he?
I was referring to writers, not readers.
Al, 10:09: Belle was referring to you and to all the previous "Al" incarnations which have infested the internet since about 2003. You probably don't remember all the other Als.
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
the veritable William F. Buckley of the liberal blogosphere.
What's sad is that you think "veritable William F. Buckley" is a compliment, rather than a slur about ostentatious use use of language to no particular end.
This may, in a way, be good news. I maintain that the quality of Matthew Yglesias's comment threads bears a strongly inverse relationship to his level of success and fame. Probably wealth, too. The release of the book has brought Yglesias to new heights of success; new lows in the comment threads are to be expected.
True.
Sadly the same thing happened to FreeDarko once Petey got there...
John K:
I think the issue isn't the right wing super trolls like Chris Ford, or right wing nut jobs like Sailer. (Or even slightly less odious right wing trolls like Fred or the only mildly odious Al) They are to be expected. It's the supposed liberals who apparently agree that there's nothing racist about a 49 year old white man calling a 46 year old black man a "boy" that are particularly dispiriting.
What's that in the sky? Is it a bird? A plane? NO, IT'S SUPER TROLL!
Able to provoke effete, wine-drinking snobs with a single line ... clinging to obscure conspiracy theories like his childhood blanky ... reducing Internets discourse to its lowest common denominator on a daily basis ...
Yeah the Hillary fans bother much more than your run-of-the-mill right wing troll. If Obama was white would she still be in the race? I don't think so. I was for Obama since the beginning b/c of guys like that Kentucky congressman, them and their Democratic "white ethnic" bretheren.
Well, at least MY doesn't engage in front-page trolling.
Waingro, you forgot my personal favorite, Richard Steven Hack. The guy is a loony bin, but he's hilarious and hits hard. I like him.
"Waingro, you forgot my personal favorite, Richard Steven Hack. The guy is a loony bin, but he's hilarious and hits hard. I like him."
A glaring omission of a worthy commenter. Apologies for the oversight, Mr. Hack. I'd still like to know what exactly the fuck a Transhumanist is, though.
"I'd still like to know what exactly the fuck a Transhumanist is, though."
Arrggh, I believes these are folks who like to dress as creatures other than human and sing Donna Summer songs. We had one er them aboard a few years back. A plumb feller. Liked to dress as a wolverine, I believes it was. Or maybe it were a badger.
"I’m particularly impressed with the comment from one Chris Ford. 'It’s not racist, and only the Jew media would think it was racist.'"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The winner here is (literally) idiotic!
"THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!" by "idiotic" cracks me up every time.
Now for definitions of Transhumanism, consult your local Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman
Or visit the "World Transhumanist Association" here: http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/
And read the "Transhumanist FAQ" here:
http://transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/faq/
The Anders Transhuman Page is another good source:
http://www.aleph.se/Trans/
The Extropy Institute used to be a main gathering point for Transhumans, but that site, although still up, has been deactivated as the Institute basically believes its main goal of getting people to hear this stuff has been achieved:
They also have a Transhumanist FAQ:
http://www.extropy.com/faq.htm
Do note, however, that I consider myself to be a "radical Transhumanist", which means I'm probably considered more "extreme" than many other Transhumanists, who seem to be amalgamations of Objectivists and computer nerds, despite their constant denials of that perception. Some of them think this stuff has grown out of "Humanism", sort of "Humanism plus technology", which I think is considerably naive.
Once I get my own Transhuman Web site up at some point, I'm sure it will turn into the "Shia vs Sunni" equivalent of Iraq - me against the rest of the more naive Transhumanists.
And for Matt's edification, there is this:
The Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence has created a video to educate people about the challenges, opportunities and risks of creating general artificial intelligence. It's also a bit of a fund raiser for the institute toward the end:
The risks and opportunities of smart machines
http://www.betterhumans.com/blogs/articles/archive/2007/05/22/The-risks-and-opportunities-of-smart-machines.aspx
The Singularity Institute itself is here:
http://www.singinst.org/
Their Media series is worth checking out if you like to see REAL geeks interviewed:
http://www.singinst.org/media/interviews
Enjoy!
What's sad is that you think "veritable William F. Buckley" is a compliment, rather than a slur about ostentatious use use of language to no particular end.
Even this, Tim, is an unduly flattering opinion of Buckley, an influential man whose career was characterized by open racism, advocacy of tatooing the HIV-positive, support for a series of failed policies, and opposition to the bulk of the major advances we've made in government in the last 50 years.
Re Richard's comment "Do note, however, that I consider myself to be a "radical Transhumanist", which means I'm probably considered more "extreme" than many other Transhumanists "
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1) So what are you going to do once you create your Master Race,Richard? heh heh heh You evil little fucker.
2) I thought Leon Kass had convinced the President to have you guys put to sleep:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Kass and
http://www.bioethics.gov/
3) By the way, how soon until Transhumanists can create a nymphomaniac Summer Glau? I'm ..er asking for a friend.
As Richard Steven Hack points out, we ignore the need to move livestock to different areas (or even different altitudes) based on ecological and seasonal factors at our own peril.
The radical transhumance movement simply takes this a step further.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumance
Nice find, El Cid! Never knew that word existed.
See - Matt's typos are useful for something! We should all key them into Google or Wikipedia and see what we come up with!
And, oh, yeah, we Transhumans are gonna move the livestock to a different altitude all right...
That's why the Church of the SubGenius calls it "The Rupture", not "The Rapture."
Don, as I've mentioned here before, there are three options:
1) We waste you all because you get in our face.
2) We make you all Transhumans whether you want to or not. Once done, you won't complain.
3) We ignore you and leave.
The most likely option is number 4: all of the above. That's why it's important to get on my good side.
Leon Kass - oh, yeah, I remember that fucktard. We'll see how long he keeps breathing if he ever tries it. He and those like him are a prime reason why I suspect number 1) option above is likely to be a big contender. As Professor X said in the second X-Men movie, "Sharing the world has never been mankind's defining characteristic."
As for Summer, I don't know - the Raelian nutjobs thought they had cloning down, but I haven't seen any proof. I guess we'll just have to learn to be PUA (Pick Up Artists.) Read "The Game" by Neil Strauss.
I just hope that, being from Texas, she's not a George Bush supporter.
By the way, those combat robots in Iraq that got taken out of service - they weren't,
They didn't pull out the three robots over the "uncommanded operation". OTOH, those robots aren't actually doing anything but being tested anyway.
The picture in this article is much better, though - you can see the whole thing.
Armed Robots Still in Iraq
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/04/armed-robots-st.html
I still prefer to see THIS whole thing:
http://www.summer-glau.net/gallery/albums/scc_hq/fox2_03-summer-moody_0489r.jpg
http://www.summer-glau.net/gallery/albums/HQ/newHQ.jpg
Comments closed April 29, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
It's true - as commenters go, we're pretty fucked up and racist.
Posted by strasmangelo jones | April 15, 2008 9:14 AM