The New York Times has a neat writeup of J Street the new progressive Israel lobby that will seek to support pro-peace candidates and causes. If you, like me, don't think that urging politicians to toe the AIPAC line should be considered the highest form of American Jewish political engagement, you should think seriously about signing up.
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J Street in NYT
25 Apr 2008 10:25 am
Comments (30)
Is it OK for me to sign up if I'm not Jewish? I don't want to be branded an anti-Semite for supporting peace.
People are scared of AIPAC because they if you get out of line to a degree they don't like they will create a primary opponent for you and drown them in money. The reason they are successful is they rely on "Kill one, warn a thousand".
What is J Street going to do to you? I don't think the answer is a kinder zionist lobby, what's needed is a serious Arab lobby that would pick the craziest Israeli cheerleader (tough job) and run them out of DC.
I'm curious. No one has ever really explained why Israel matters, other than the fact that there is a very powerful lobby who says so.
Why is Israel at all important to American foreign policy, or at least any more important than any other nation? Is it because they are a supposedly "friendly" Middle Eastern nation, in a region where we don't have many friends? Because honestly, they don't take American interests into account nearly as much as they expect us to take Israeli interests into account.
I would love some enlightenment here.
I still say that the easiest way to (partially?) level the political debate would be for George Soros to just write a check for $750M or so.
Don't forget that the big casino guy ended up welshing on his promise to spend $250M this election cycle to buy a war against Iran. So I'll bet that lots of conservative/Republican DC political types are going to be falling behind on the mortgages for their new mansions that they'd bought in eager anticipation at all the loot heading their way. Given how desperate they are, I'm sure Soros could buy them all up cheap with for just a couple of hundred million, then spend the rest buying up a majority interest in the Democrats as well.
Then, once you've acquired a controlling stake in both DC political parties, you can merge them together, cut overhead, and establish a nice bi-partisan policy on the Middle East.
You might do better to join or even set up an organisation which wants all the Israeli settlers out of the land Israel conquered in 1967, including all those in East Jerusalem. J-Street is Israel-lite, whereas what is needed is a full-throated and unapologetic attack on Jewish settler chauvinism.
Do you have to be circumscised before you can donate money?
Sorry -- I couldn't resist.
But there is a serious question of whether J Street should be a largely Jewish American organization or whether all Americans should be welcome.
The reason is that anti-war Gentiles who support J Street will allow AIPAC to attack J Street as being a cover for "anti-Semites" --and not a Jewish voice.
While I think the attack of some AIPAC members on "self-hating Jews" is itself a form of anti-Semitism, I also don't want AIPAC to be able to divert the discussion off into the weeds with deceitful ad hominems.
On the other hand, J Street is greatly outmatched and will need all the help it can get. Comments?
Maybe any political organization I support shouldn't be burdened with having me as a member.
I meant 'AIPAC-lite'.
If you, like me, don't think that urging politicians to toe the AIPAC line should be considered the highest form of American Jewish political engagement
-Matt
AIPAC is not a Jewish organization. It is a pro-Israel lobby; and most of its supporters are not Jewish. I personally think it makes perfect sense that a pro-Israel lobby is lobbying American politicians to support actual policies of the actual Israeli government. As long as they don't claim to represent me, they're not my problem.
On the other hand, I have a huge problem with organizations like the Anti-Defamation League and American Jewish Congress, which claim to represent all Jewish Americans but don't, inasmuch as they too now at least partly support aggressive, colonialist Israeli and American policies in the Middle East, which I and most American Jews oppose.
Re otto
"You might do better to join or even set up an organisation which wants all the Israeli settlers out of the land Israel conquered in 1967, including all those in East Jerusalem. J-Street is Israel-lite, whereas what is needed is a full-throated and unapologetic attack on Jewish settler chauvinism."
Mr. otto is prevaricating. What He really wants is all Israelis out of Israel.
AIPAC is not a Jewish organization. It is a pro-Israel lobby; and most of its supporters are not Jewish.
This is a joke, right?
Offhand, I'd guess that 99+% of the money that AIPAC (directly or indirectly) controls and distributes comes from Jewish sources.
On the other hand, it certainly is true that the majority of the *recipients* of that money aren't Jews, so I might agree that most of AIPAC's "supporters" aren't Jewish, if "supporters" is taken to be a polite euphemism for "employees" (such as members of Congress).
Ignoring the trolls, I agree with otto. J-Street's issues page calls for Jerusalem to be divided according to "demographic realities" - in other words, Ariel Sharon gets what he wanted all along. J-Street is great on diplomacy with Iran, but on their key issue they're not all that much better than AIPAC.
No one has ever really explained why Israel matters
I'm having trouble thinking of anything that has been explained more. Try Google. You'll get millions of hits.
The countries most responsible for creating Israel and Israel's problems are Germany, Russia, Britain, and America. They caused it, so they have to fix it. That's reason number one.
America also has a gigantic religious interest in Israel. Neither you nor I share that interest, but try telling 100 million Jewish and Christian fundamentalists that their love of Israel doesn't matter.
Last, and most important, the American government and corporate elite wants military dominance of the Middle East oil trade. So they want Israel's military to act as an American proxy, and they consider ignoring Israeli oppression of the Palestinians an insignificant cost.
Ignoring the trolls, I agree with otto. J-Street's issues page calls for Jerusalem to be divided according to "demographic realities" - in other words, Ariel Sharon gets what he wanted all along. J-Street is great on diplomacy with Iran, but on their key issue they're not all that much better than AIPAC.
Gary Sugar writes:
"On the other hand, I have a huge problem with organizations like the Anti-Defamation League and American Jewish Congress, which claim to represent all Jewish Americans but don't, inasmuch as they too now at least partly support aggressive, colonialist Israeli and American policies in the Middle East, which I and most American Jews oppose."
There is so much unadulterated nonsense in this post that its a wonder the Department of Health hasn't shut down the thread. First, while you may be suicidal, most Jews are not. Thus, the policies of appeasement, surrender, and the attendent "Auschwitz borders" (to use Abba Eban's phrase) do not resonate in the Jewish community. Second, Israel and America are not "colonialist" -please show me an Israeli or American "colony", properly defined, anywhere in the Middle East. And no, Jewish neighborhoods are not "colonies" in any sense of the term, unless of course you believe Jews belong in specified neighborhoods (ghettos, perhaps?)
Ignoring the trolls, I agree with otto. J-Street's issues page calls for Jerusalem to be divided according to "demographic realities" - in other words, Ariel Sharon gets what he wanted all along. J-Street is great on diplomacy with Iran, but on their key issue they're not all that much better than AIPAC.
Re Gary Sugar's comment "Last, and most important, the American government and corporate elite wants military dominance of the Middle East oil trade. So they want Israel's military to act as an American proxy, "
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You mean ...like in Iraq?
So how's that going?
Re Don Williams
According to the testimony of Lawrence Wilkerson, the US might not be bogged down in Iraq if the US government had listened to the reservations of the Israeli intelligence community.
You mean ...like in Iraq?
Posted by Don Williams | April 25, 2008 12:48 PM
Yes. But more often in Syria and Lebanon. Hopefully not in Iran this year.
Re SLC's comment "the US might not be bogged down in Iraq if the US government had listened to the reservations of the Israeli intelligence community."
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Unfortunately, they chose INSTEAD to listen to the SENIOR LEADERS of the Israeli Government:
Ariel Sharon's envoy Bibi Nathanyahu, Sharon's spokeman--whose name escapes me at the moment, and Shimon Peres. Who were telling the American people in mid-2002 that we needed to take out Saddam before the threw the WMDS --or was it the Holy Hand Grenade --at us?
Re Don Williams
Mr. Don Williams continues his obfuscation tactics. According to Wilkerson, the senior Israeli leaders went along with the Bush administration in the same way they kissed up to Bush on almost everything. Bibi was sent to lobby the US Congress at the request of the Bush Administration, although to be fair about it, he was probably the only one in Sharons' cabinet who agreed with the former that Saddam had to go. The rest of Sharons' cabinet were just a bunch of suckups, who when asked by the Bushies to jump replied how high.
Lord Levy (pere J Street moneyman Daniel Levy)was Tony Blair's chief benefactor throughout his career. When he made known his wish to see Britain join the U.S. in waging War on Iraq, Tony (despite the overwhelming opposition of Britains) the money-bound PM complied.
What is NOT needed is yet another self-congratulatory "Pro-Israel/Pro-Palestinian" Jewish organization. They won't help the Palestinians one iota yet we'll hear endless encomiums as to how wonderful they are. There's a whole lotta Gentiles out there who feel much more strongly about what the Walt/Mearshimer showed and they (not AIPAC-lite Jews) are the ones who should be forming an organized opposition to the Zionist power configuration.
Re Trevor
Obviously, Mr. Trevor doesn't read Mr. Levys' web site or he would know that the latter is in no way pro-Israel. He is one of the biggest apologists for the Palestinians around and in fact is a first class Israel basher, if not quite in the Trevor catagory. To say that an organization, one of whose backers is Robert Malley, is pro-Israel is stupidity of the highest order, but not surprising considering the source.
Re SLC's comment "According to Wilkerson, the senior Israeli leaders went along with the Bush administration in the same way they kissed up to Bush on almost everything."
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Well, then the Israeli government can go ask George Bush for $3 Billion in aid next year. And when they need parts for those F16s, they can ask George W for them. And if they need protection from a nuclear-armed Iran sometime in the future, then they can ask George W for that as well.
Because the American people should tell them to go fuck themselves. That we don't need an "ally" which helps lie us into an unnecessary war that's killed 4000 of our soldiers and crippled thousands more for life.
Same goes for the fucking Brits.
Re SLC,
"Pro-Israel". That's how they bill themselves, dopey. And, what are you doing up? Thought you had an appointment to play spin the dradel with your new unhappy turd friend TAS.
Re Don Williams
Yes, it is unfortunate that the clowns who run the Israeli government feel the need to suck up to whatever administration is in power in Washington. Thats' why I favor phasing out aid to Israel. Then they can settle once and for all with the Fakestinians by the application of Hama Rules. Then Mr. Williams will really have something to whine about.
Re Trevor
The Jstreet crowd is certainly less anti-Israel then Mr. Trevor who favors an Eichmann solution for the inhabitants of Israel. Thst isn't saying much however.
SLC favors an Eichmann solution for the Palestinians. The only solution I favor is for LittleGreenFootballs to abduct the pikey little meshuganah fart, rub some Vick's vapor rub on his pupkus and watch that he doesn't overheat.
Because the American people should tell them to go fuck themselves. That we don't need an "ally" which helps lie us into an unnecessary war that's killed 4000 of our soldiers and crippled thousands more for life.
Posted by Don Williams | April 25, 2008 3:57 PM
Right. Big dumb innocent America tricked by clever little Israel. Did Israel also lie us into overthrowing Mosaddeq in 1953? How about those American-sponsored coups in Haiti and Venezuela? Israel's ideas? And the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and the Maine? Israel!
To be clear, I don't think Israel is innocent of aggression and war crimes. But I don't think Israel is responsible for America's much greater crimes either.
Re Trevor
Mr. Trevor likes to brag that his father was appointed a federal judge by Richard Milhous Nixon. Well, lets consider what kind of individual Mr. Trevor Sr. might be. Mr. Nixon also attempted to appoint a Floridian named G. Harrold Carswell to the Supreme Court. Mr. Carswell was turned down by the Senate who found him to be totally unqualified. A few years later, the same Mr. Carswell was arrested in a mens' room for soliciting sex from an undercover officer. That's probably Mr. Trevor Jr.s' favorite activity.
SLC continues his lies about Wilkerson, despite having been refuted many, many times here by myself, Don, and others.
And if Israel applies SLC's "Hama Rules" to anybody, the rest of the world will apply them to Israel - and deservedly so.
Curious: "No one has ever really explained why Israel matters, other than the fact that there is a very powerful lobby who says so."
There's a book out that explains that. The Israeli Lobby is just the latest development in a fifty year - and beyond - effort by Israel to get the US on its side. They have literally spent millions on this effort. It started even before Israel actually existed, by having high-status Jewish Americans threaten President Truman directly.
See here:
Where Did AIPAC Come From?
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/gsmith.php?articleid=11727
An excerpt from Foreign Agents: The American Israel Public Affairs Committee From the 1963 Fulbright Hearings to the 2005 Espionage Scandal, by Grant F. Smith.
Get the book here:
http://irmep.org/fa.htm
And see this quote about Truman:
"An American Zionist delegation met with Truman in January 1948 at the White House and demanded immediate help for the thousands of homeless Holocaust victims seeking refuge in a Jewish state. Truman's response was not satisfactory, and the visitors became adamant. Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver of Cleveland, Ohio pounded on the President's desk. Truman was outraged. 'No one, but no one, comes into the office of the President of the United States and shouts at him, or pounds on his desk. If anyone is going to do any shouting or pounding in here, it will be me.'"
See the whole story about Truman and the Jews here:
President Harry S. Truman and US Support for Israeli Statehood
http://www.mideastweb.org/us_supportforstate.htm
Comments closed May 09, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
Any organization with an Israel bashing liar like Robert Malley has no credibility. That's automatic.
Posted by SLC | April 25, 2008 10:38 AM