« "Listening to Iraq" | Main | Mmm...Eggs » Pie Toss24 Apr 2008 11:51 am Tom Friedman gets pied at Brown: That's funny, but for a more intellectually rigorous Friedman takedown, I'd suggest the preface to Heads in the Sand, which attempts to elucidate the "Friedman Units" concept for a wider audience as well as explore the larger significance of Friedmanesque behavior. Comments (108)
Probably not so funny if you were there waiting to hear him speak while he cleaned up. 
The smart approach would have been to have one pie on each side of the podium, giving him nowhere to run. Silly liberals, never a good combat strategy. What an RPP (Rocket Propelled Pie)? Don't worry, Tom. Those stains should come out sometime in the next six months.
Re "for a more intellectually rigorous Friedman takedown "
Looks like Friedman failed to predict the type of reception the locals were going to give.
Funny? Really Matt? Sorry, but that comment from you is surprising.
Hmm. Well, he got HIT with the pie, but it lacked the all-important "crust on the face whilst pie drips down onto the shirt" element. I give it a C+. Good, but not great. The kids should get to stay in school, but don't get the scholarships for excellence in community service that I'd give for footage of a full-on pieing.
Meh, I don't find acting like an inconsiderate jackass to be that funny.
Lmao, my heart bleeds for this monster and his supporters. Really. It does. This guy was instrumental in starting a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. He's lucky he's only dodging pies. And you morons act like this is the greatest affront to decency that ever existed. You're fucking pathetic.
Funny? I would call it pathetic. Is this the level of discourse in our country? When was the last time the Young Repblicans or other conservative student groups did something like this? This is why liberals will never have any lasting impact in our country. Your average American sees them as unserious kooks.
Friedman deserves public condemnation and ridicule, but the pie thing is wrong... and it's old. Ann Coulter did a better job at avoiding the pie than Friedman, she's more athletic.
Before you guys get too upset, it's probably good to remember that he was probably being paid a lot to speak there.
I second soullite's comment. The only problem with this incident is that it should have been a shit pie.
come one Joe, it's is a little bit funny. Not hilariously so, but Friedman is a ridiculous figure, and he deserves some forced bathos. The funny part of the video is where Tom keeps looking at himself thinking 'darn it!....ohh oh oh..DARN IT!. He's really really appalled to have pie on his hand. IT'S JUST PIE, TOM!! I won't be specific about the obvious comparison to what he would have on his hands if he were a soldier in Iraq.
They need to start throwing Snowballs or marshmallows or something with a less awkward throwing motion if they want to hit these high-value targets. Holding the pie aloft with spread fingers just doesn't give you much accuracy, and the victim can see it coming. Maybe pies need an underhand lob?
Friedman's a shit, but the pie thing is pretty juvenile, and not all that funny either. Surely their are more interesting ways of humiliating Friedman. (Heck, just letting him speak usually accomplishes that.)
This guy was instrumental in starting a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. He's lucky he's only dodging pies. And you morons act like this is the greatest affront to decency that ever existed. You're fucking pathetic. Do pursue that train of thought, I'm dying to know. What's your plan for justice for those "instrumental" in starting the war? (I guess "instrumental" just means having an opinion in public. Or was he a paid shill.) In your right-minded zeal you're still doing a decent job of sounding like a fascist.
In baseball, pitching coaches call a pitcher a "pie thrower" if his mechanics cause his arm to push the ball rather than using it like a whip. From the video, I can see why.
"Monster" is unfair, and this sort of thing is pretty juvenile. But really, if this is all the physical discomfort he'll experience for having cheerled an immoral war, I find it hard to muster much sympathy. Of course the protest was not directed at his war stance per se but at his views on globalization, capitalism, energy, etc. Still, the basic point is: Contra Matt's view of Bill Buckley earlier, the actions of public intellectuals do have real-world consequences, and why should the public intellectuals themselves get to be immune from those consequences?
Lmao, my heart bleeds for this monster and his supporters. Really. It does. This guy was instrumental in starting a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. He's lucky he's only dodging pies. And you morons act like this is the greatest affront to decency that ever existed. You're fucking pathetic.
Given that Friedman advocated invading iraq have having our troops go from "house to house" to send a message to Iraqis and the Iraqi people to "suck on this," it's really hard for me to argue that having him get hit with a pie is unwarranted or out of bounds. Seriously, irrational screaming that we should invade a country to "send a message" is somehow ok, but hitting someone with a pie is some kind of offense to our sensibilities? I can't really make that case.
KevDog: "The smart approach would have been to have one pie on each side of the podium, giving him nowhere to run." Yep, they screwed up the execution, too bad.
How did my comment get posted above soullite's? It was him/her I was responding to. Your server is fucked up, Matt.
Just pointing out that it is entirely possible in this complex world for Friedman to be horribly wrong about some things (like Iraq) yet "not totally insane" about other things (like looking to future technological/business innovation to help change the kinds and quantities of energy we consume). If the pie had been for Friedman's Iraq nonsense, I'd be secretly cheering the kids on. But it wasn't. Friedman was scheduled to give an Earth Day speech on ways businesses and technological innovation can help us work toward a greener future. These kids were apparently more anti-business and anti-technology (and thus, in my view, anti-reality) than they were pro-environment. So for that, I'm going to call them more stupid than Friedman on this particular day and this particular topic.
They need to start throwing Snowballs or marshmallows or something with a less awkward throwing motion if they want to hit these high-value targets. How about a football in the groin?
Is this the level of discourse in our country? I think after Friedman's "suck on this" performance on Charlie Rose that we would have accepted that the discourse is pretty darn low. Seriously, dude, the man reaps what he has sown. I don't think his behavior warranted the military invasion of his Bethesda home, but a thrown pie to "send a message" that we're "serious" that we won't tolerate the threat to our society posed by the likes of friedman seems like an acceptable move.
Now that Fafblog is back, this should make for excellent pie blogging.
Just pointing out that it is entirely possible in this complex world for Friedman to be horribly wrong about some things (like Iraq) yet "not totally insane" about other things (like looking to future technological/business innovation to help change the kinds and quantities of energy we consume). If the pie had been for Friedman's Iraq nonsense, I'd be secretly cheering the kids on. But it wasn't. Friedman was scheduled to give an Earth Day speech on ways businesses and technological innovation can help us work toward a greener future. These kids were apparently more anti-business and anti-technology (and thus, in my view, anti-reality) than they were pro-environment. So for that, I'm going to call them more stupid than Friedman on this particular day and this particular topic.
Pieing is a perfect means of protesting someone as self-absorbed and vacuous as Thomas Friedman. Pieing is huge in the Francophone world for some reason. Probably because the pies in question are fantastic. See, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No%C3%ABl_Godin (describing composition of pies)("
The pie should have been loaded with fast-setting epoxy which would get in his throat and asphyxiate him. Failing that, a contact-sensitive explosive. Or maybe polonium-210. That worked well in London.
My favorite moment is when he licks his pie finger. Wanker.
It couldn't happen to a nicer or more deserving fellow. But how long will it take for him or his employer to regain their stature? 6 mos.?
Well, if these kids are so against capitalism and globalization they could start be dropping out of Brown and going to their local community college. Or just working the land. Their parents could then donate the $48,000-plus annual cost of tuition and board at Brown to environmental causes (two students at four years comes to over $386,000) and these two could focus on how best to burn down their prepschool or damn ritzy public high. Plus, they'd have the satisfaction of knowing they weren't complicit in a corrupt class-based system (the Ivy Leauge). Somehow I don't see it happening. And, yeah, of course, Matt's a hypocrite who would be appalled if this sort of stunt was pulled by College Republicans on a self-identified "progressive."
I'm more a fan of humiliating the guy intellectually rather than physically. And this attack just seems stupider when you find out that the piers attacked because of Friedman's "wrongheaded approach to climate change."
Sometimes bad people need to be embarrassed or emasculated into obscurity (or joblessness), because frankly, we——as consumers, voters, writers, producers, etc——fail to marginalize them in other ways. Bill Kristol, for example, seems to be doing better than ever as a professional pundit and influence peddler, yet he's wrong 99% of the time and an unrepentant liar. Why doesn't that count against him? And if it doesn't, what can be done? Pie in the face seems a reasonable place to start.
I'm more a fan of humiliating the guy intellectually rather than physically That's a fair point, but no one will ever get a chance to humiliate Friedman on equal ground. Thus, guerilla tactics may be required. This means repeated, mocking reminders of the "suck on this" video, mockery of "friedman units", and the occasional pie-in-the-face. You're never going to have your own column in the New York Times from which you can humiliate Tom Friedman, so you should focus on assymmetrical warfare and not tut-tut those who resort to it.
Typical fascist violence. Only fascists would resort to violence to prevent people from speaking. I can see why a number of the commenters justify it. BTW, if it so funny to throw pies at speakers, can Matthew post the time and date of his next HITS event? I'm not saying that I would attend, but still, I'll bet somebody might want to inject a little humor, right?
It's not funny, it's just thuggery. Here's a question for Matt: would it be funny if Obama got pied by a conservative who objected to his policies? How about if Hillary got pied? Perhaps Al Sharpton, or Al Gore?
Let me know when you manage to get out of 5th grade, Matt - when you do, perhaps I'll find time to read your book.
And typical of Al to equate throwing whipped cream and pastry to the tactics and weaponry of true fascists. Let me guess: Pies are the gateway weapons that inevitably lead to gas chambers, pogroms, machine guns, and genocide? Did that liberal fascist Adolf Hitler begin his career as the instigator of food fights in kindergarten?
It's not funny, it's just thuggery. Really? I have to disagree, because it was Tom Friedman trying to play the "thug" with his Iraq-war-demogoguery. Seriously, advocacy of invading a country which resulted in lots of death and destruction for the purpose of sending a message of "suck. on. this." isn't something your condemning as "thuggery", but you're attributing "thuggery" to a college prank whose history dates back to vaudeville? Messed up priorities you have there.
And, yeah, of course, Matt's a hypocrite who would be appalled if this sort of stunt was pulled by College Republicans on a self-identified "progressive." For whatever it's worth, back in the fall of 1988 Lloyd Bentsen (the VP on the Dukakis ticket) made a whistle-stop appearance at the plaza of the university I attended. In those less-paranoid days, there was essentially no crowd control or security to speak of, and a group of about twenty fratboys took the opportunity to show up and chant "FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!" at the top of their lungs for the entire duration--about twenty minutes. Bentsen was barely audible over the chanting. True story.
I'm a graduate of Brown.
The al-bot is right on. "As Mussolini's blackshirts gained ever more power and suggested regulating the financial industry and putting an unbearable 30 percent tax on the incomes of the successful (a form of mass murder not unlike the genocide in Cambodia, except worse), they initiated a pieing strategy to terrorize their opponents, successful and innovative entrepreneurs who, burdened down by capital gains taxes, were making one last valiant fight for FREEDOM. The pies, of course, were manufactured by Eleanor Roosevelt, and shipped below cost to Italy, as was pointed out by Professor I.M. Daffy, of Regent's University, in his book: Roosevelt's Secret Pie Plan and how it Led to The Great Depression. Must reading for anyone who wants to know the TRUTH about the Great Depression." Isn't pieing Tom Friedman, objectively, pro Islamofascist?
I would find it very funny indeed if somebody hit Matt Yglesias with a pie at his upcoming book event.
Frankie D: I'm not sure you're correct. I'm a graduate student myself and therefore not really in touch with the undergraduate pulse, but the action was condemned by the student newspaper (http://media.www.browndailyherald.com/media/storage/paper472/news/2008/04/24/Editorial/Rudeness.Isnt.Effective-3346865.shtml) and most of the posts on a thread on the subject at a student online forum are highly negative toward the perpetrators, often in profane terms (http://brown.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=543480).
Where were the anxious cries of "Don't tase me, bro!"? What a sad excuse for a university. The poor kids were probably on their way to present their arguments to their English 101 class, but inadvertently spent them on Friedman. If this is the future hope of our country, we might as well start working on plans of total capitulation to Iran, Cuba, and the People's Republic of Kim. We may still be able to cut a deal that's not too disadvantageous.
Frankie D: I'm not sure you're correct. I'm a graduate student myself and therefore not really in touch with the undergraduate pulse, but the action was condemned by the student newspaper (http://media.www.browndailyherald.com/media/storage/paper472/news/2008/04/24/Editorial/Rudeness.Isnt.Effective-3346865.shtml) and most of the posts on a thread on the subject at a student online forum are highly negative toward the perpetrators, often in profane terms (http://brown.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=543480).
I'll repeat: if you find this funny, there's something wrong with you. If you disagree with Friedman, you respond with speech, not physical acts.
I think some of you are a little confused. Advocating an immoral war, telling people the Iraqis should suck on this, etc -- that's what we call "speech." Throwing a pie at someone, while realtively harmless, is a physical act meant to intimidate them and shut them up. I hate to say it, but Al's right. That's what fascists do. Here in America, if you don't like what someone's saying, you counter it with more speech.
Meh, I don't find acting like an inconsiderate jackass to be that funny. Me neither, which is why it was funny to see the jackass get hit with a pie.
If for nothing else, Tommy merits a pie-a-day for this (from Wiki), "One of Friedman's theses is that individual countries must sacrifice some degree of economic sovereignty to global institutions (such as capital markets and multinational corporations), a situation he has termed the 'golden straightjacket'." Keep a pie in your pie-hole, Tom, you pompous little turd. Did you get that "thesis" from your hedgie father-in-law?
james kabala, certainly you are more in touch with the campus at this point.
"Typical fascist violence. Only fascists would resort to violence to prevent people from speaking. I can see why a number of the commenters justify it." Yes, only fascists would resort to violence to prevent people from speaking. Communists? No, never. Monarchists? Certainly not. Religious fundamentalists? Not in this world! Anti-labor industrialists? Don't be silly. Only fascists. In the entire history of the world, nobody but fascists have ever used violence to prevent people from speaking. And pie throwing is entirely typical of the sort of violence fascists use to prevent people from speaking. That's what the ovens at Dachau were for wasn't it, to bake all the pies that were needed for typical fascist violence? Do you have any other completely ridiculous and obviously wrong comments you'd like to make?
Those kids should have been wearing clown suits. It would have been much safer for everyone involved. Seriously. My question: would we take such a casual attitude toward this sort of thing if it were directed at a minority public figure or a woman? I know I wouldn't. Further, why stop at throwing pies? Why not attempt a citizen's arrest or go all out with an assassination? After all, Friedman's a war criminal, isn't he?
Ha ha ha ha! All you sticks-in-the-butts got no sense of humor. Not only was the pie hilarious, it was well-deserved. Couldn't have happened to a more pompous ass.
I'll repeat: if you find this funny, there's something wrong with you. I'll remember that next time you claim that liberals have no sense of humor. The possibility of being pied or, in an earlier era, hit with a rotten tomato, is an occupational hazard of being a public figure. And yes, cream pies are funny. would it be funny if (insert your favorite progressive figure here) were pied by a conservative? Actually, yes. And if you approved of Friedman's "suck on this" statement, then there's something wrong with YOU. One might also add that Friedman has carte blanche to mouth off with no opposition at all, so your statement that the only appropriate response is "with words" in invalid. No one is ever given a platform to counter Friedman on equal standing. I'm not saying I would pie friedman, personally, but I can't tut-tut those who do, particularly given his full-throated advocacy of violence, death, and destruction to those who disagreed with him in order to "send a message." Friedman suffered no ill harm, so I fail to see what the big deal is. He was probably humiliated, and I think that is ok, because he isn't humiliated enough.
would we take such a casual attitude toward this sort of thing if it were directed at a minority public figure or a woman? It depends on the specific figure, but it would probably be worse, because pieing is only to be done to the more powerful and pompous by the less-powerful. Students pieing Tom Friedman: Funny. George W. Bush pieing the Undersecretary of Agriculture (and you know he wants to): Not Funny.
The BDH editorial seems to think it was applause for Friedman's composure, and it probably was. (Obviously people who attend a Friedman lecture generally would not regard Friedman as a monster.)
What would really be funny would be to see Friedman insist on prosecuting those escapees from the traveling circus. That's what former German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer did when his Green Party cohorts bombarded him with paint-filled balloons at a party conference. These "protesters" were venting their disapproval at Fischer's support for the NATO attack on Serbia. They hit him with the balloons hard enough that it caused his ear drum to rupture, if I recall correctly. Stunts like that deserve an appropriate response.
All you idiots saying "you wouldn't be laughing if it were a conservative pieing a liberal" are fucking morons. Getting a pie in the face is funny! You probably don't think the Marx Brothers are funny. Probably think the Stooges are juvenile. There is a long history of hilarious pies in the face over the past 10 years. One of the funniest was when Jean-Luc Godard got it right in the mug. And nobody is accusing him of being a conservative. All you folks complaining are just TOO FUCKING OLD TO LIVE! Don't sit down! Or that stick up your butt might get pushed in even further! (Bill Gates got a pie in the face too - that was classic).
Godard also intervened to make sure the Entarteurs didn't go to prison. The only people other than Fischer, who was not "pied," to press charges I think have been Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, Ann Widdecombe, and Bernard-Henri Levy. All right wingers, other than Levy, but he deserves it too. Based on this argument ad hominem pieing is great!
That's not funny at all, Matt. What's wrong with you?
In the future, this is what will pass for humor (I already find it funny): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i4lYURD7ts&feature=related
You are all missing the point here. Forget about Friedman and the Iraq war, and the morality of the pie-throwers. The great tragedy here is that all of that delicious pie was wasted.
Suck. On. This. Pie.
I never advocate assaulting or battering anyone Huh? Throwing a pie at someone is assault and battery.
Pieing, of course, is funny depending on the circumstances. Pieing Matt would not be funny except if it was done on Blogging heads, and the pie-r sneaking up on him was Megan McArdle. Then it would be funny. Pie-ing Al Franken would be funny any time. Ditto with Cheney. Funny depends on the set up, and one has to fault the pie-ing of Friedman in that it was premature. Surely the time for the pie-ing, and probably a more successful in the face moment, would have come when he was lulled into security. Enraptured by a story, no doubt heartwarming, about some innovative South Indian bottler of mineral water. On the other hand, attaching pie-ing to a political message is dull. No pamphlets, no counerspeeches. Let the act be pure. The Romans used to bury their statesmen and rich in big public funerals, accompanied by mimes wearing masks of said statesmen and rich. The mimes made obscene gestures and generally made mock of them with imitations of their speech, dances, and the usual exaggerated phalluses. A good custom. Less reverence for the rich, the celebrated, the powerful. Or as that well known pie-er and roudabout fascist, Thomas J. once said, The tree of liberty must be watered from time to time with appropriately placed lemon meringue.
Al quotes and writes: "I never advocate assaulting or battering anyone Huh? Throwing a pie at someone is assault and battery." Not in the splendid new moral age that Dumbya and the Bushpigs have led us to. Now throwing a pie is an "enhanced disapproval technique." Friedman deserves no sympathy.
Friedman has spoken out against the islamofascist pie threat for a long time: The ''real reason'' for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough. Because a pie bubble had built up over there -- a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This pie bubble said that throwing pies at bloviating asshats was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things ''bakers'' was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such ''bakers'' was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that pie throwing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to give up their precious baked goods. The only way to puncture that pie bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this pie bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabian or Syrian kitchens would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of the pie-making world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government -- and 98 percent of pie throwing is about what governments let happen -- got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about.
There are funny pie-ings. Bill Gates for instance. This one didn't do it for me--on aesthetic, non-ideological grounds.
Brautigan totally wins the thread.
"I would find it very funny indeed if somebody hit Matt Yglesias with a pie at his upcoming book event." Agreed. Is MattY going to be doing any book events in NYC?
My opinion of Yglesias just dropped substantially.
"...in the splendid new moral age that Dumbya and the Bushpigs have led us to... Now throwing a pie is an "enhanced disapproval technique." The ticking-time bomb scenario. You only have 5 minutes to take the piss out of Tom Friedman. You have actionable intelligence that implies he is about to start blabbing that the world is flat. What do you do?
I'm shocked that you'd think the bookreading audience might be "wider" than your blogreading audience.
Waingro wonders: "The ticking-time bomb scenario. You only have 5 minutes to take the piss out of Tom Friedman." I'd just ask him if it's true that he and Maureen Dowd have synchronized periods. Speaking of NYT personalities who deserve public approbation, I think that Bill Kristol should be pelted with rocks and garbage any time he appears in public for the rest of his unnatural life.
Re danceswithgoats's comments "Is this the level of discourse in our country? " 2) Friedman, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, William Kristol do not ,in my opinion, engage in HONEST DEBATE. Because that's not what they're paid for. They're paid to sell a crock of shit to you dumbshits in order to further some rich assholes' agenda. 3) THAT's why they are given the closely owned/tightly controlled megaphones with which to address Millions -- whereas you people have to come here and post comments that might be read by 30 people at best. 4) Friedman, Kristol et al are propagandists. Like Goebbals. WORSE than Goebbals , in my opinion, because Goebbals was not a US citizen who got rich putting out stories that got 4000 plus US soldiers killed. 5) George Bush is protected by the Secret Service. These cocksuckers are not. If some parent who lost a son in Iraq blew Rupert Murdoch's fucking brains out, I would not convict that parent if I was on the jury. 6) The Fascists took over Germany because the Social Democrats were riddled with deeply corrupt, chickenshit cowards who bleated for "civil discourse". Who constantly betrayed their fellow countrymen because they were only in politics for the money and the benefits. No one missed those two-faced fuckers when Hitler sent them to the concentration camps 8 years before he started rounding up the Jews. The Commies --who included a number of Jews -- were the only ones who had the courage to fight the Nazis in the streets.
My opinion of Yglesias just dropped substantially. Meh. Friedman had it coming -- and as others have observed, a pie in the face is the absolute worst that the son of a bitch will ever suffer. And it's hilarious reading all the sanctimony about how you must defeat Friedman's pernicious ideas by articulating better ones! Friedman isn't doing a speaking gig like this for a free and open exchange of ideas. He's doing it for money, and he's doing it in a venue that, much like his sweet NYT gig, essentially precludes any really free debate. Friedman went to dispense his "wisdom" to the maggotry, and some of the maggotry gave him honest feedback. That's what happened here.
The pie is funny. But I have a hard time thinking these guys are righteous just because Friedman was an ass on Iraq. After all, their going after Friedman for not being ultra-leftist on environmental problems. Even if they're right, I think it's pretty wrong-headed to go after guys that are probably way more on your side than, say, George Will. Friedman was on board with things like gas taxes way before it was fashionable. I fail to see how he's so harmful to their cause. I especially fail to see how these tactics are really going to advance their cause.
If we outlaw pies, only outlaws will have pies...
Those of you expressing your outrage over "the liburals" who committed this atrocious act need to relax. Someone earlier linked to the Wikipedia article discussing the history of pieing. Its proponents make clear that it is not politically motivated per se. Rather, they target self-important people who need to lighten up. In 10 years when Matt's on CNN every day as a "political expert" I certainly hope someone pies him to bring him back to earth!
Wait, why would it be OK to throw a pie in Friedman's face for his throaty and embarassing support of a grossly wrong-headed war, but NOT ok to throw a pie in his face for essentially advocating that more money be thrown at the technical-industrial complex that got us into the mess of global warming in the first place? Isn't the aww-shucks wishful thinking the same in both cases? His desperate, clinging grip to a techno-determinist future is the problem in both cases.
As Tweetie would say, HA!!! Those kids should have attacked in a pincer formation, however, instead of both from the same direction, so Aggression Boy couldn't have escaped with only minor pie.
1) It's a stupid custom for universities to invite people to give speechs (One Way Propaganda broadcasts), anyway. If universities were serious about their missions, they would INSIST that visitors defend their views in a moderated debate with campus representatives. That should be the academic tradition in a REAL university. ( I know, I know. Some schools have professors spoonfeeding students with one-way lectures in auditoriums filled with 400 students. But that's not the real university. Or a place where you should want to send your child to be educated. ) Einstein explaining his Theory of Relativity is entitled to give a public speech. Lesser mortals should be forced to debate. And don't give me bull shit about how speakers take questions from the audience. Dodging questions with evasive answers -- and shutting off objections/follow up questions -- is becoming the common custom in the public forum nowdays. It's amazing how the American people have less of a spine that the Russians living under Stalin. At least the Russians KNEW a one-way public forum was a farce and refused to take it seriously.
This was a sleazy, irresponsible thing to do. Not the end of the world, as it turned out. But the logistics of this situation were noteworthy. What if, seeing people rushing toward the stage but not seeing the pies, a speaker in this situation has a heart attack? Of course such a scenario would be unlikely, but it did look alarming in that first moment. (And Matt would never have called that funny. As I said above, this incident ended up as little more than an inconvenience for Friedman, so while I don’t find it funny, I think his comment should be kept in perspective.) I would also point out that it’s really no coincidence that the group responsible was apprently some fringe outfit whose views are marginal in our public discourse. This was not witty, or thought-provoking, or even really cathartic. Destroying Friedman’s arguments for war and perhaps complicating his story of globalization in a public debate, by contrast, would be satisying and useful.
Someone wrote: This guy was instrumental in starting a war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. He's lucky he's only dodging pies. And you morons act like this is the greatest affront to decency that ever existed. You're fucking pathetic. Well, why don't we just take Mr. Friedman out and execute him, then. Look, the guy should not have a column at the NYT. He should not be listened to. But he should not be assaulted, either. I do hope that he presses charges against the people who assaulted him, and puts a little misdemeanor assault on their record.
sglover, sam,
"Joe Strummer" writes: "I do hope that he presses charges against the people who assaulted him, and puts a little misdemeanor assault on their record." Somehow I think the man who wrote "White Riot" wouldn't be such a spineless toady for the system. Change your name to something more sucktastic - like Toby Keith or Donny Osmond.
"The lot of you who find this funny should ponder this: would it be funny if (insert your favorite progressive figure here) were pied by a conservative? I rather suspect that Matt - and the lot of you here - would condemn it." Yes, it would be funny. Especially if it's Obama, IMO, for some reason. Just cause I want him to president, of the available options, doesn't mean it wouldn't be funny if he got hit with a pie. I'd suggest that people who are fulminating on the terribleness of the this terrible act and this terrible Matt probably have a pecan pie the size of Atlanta a Friedman unit or two up their ass.
Re jason's comment "What if, seeing people rushing toward the stage but not seeing the pies, a speaker in this situation has a heart attack?"
Again, there are funny pieings. But there are two crucial elements. 1. You've gotta hit the face. I cannot emphasize this enough. (Importantly, the pie material helps to obscure what every sympathetic expression the victim may attempt to make.) 2. No warning. The pie-ee (and ideally, the rest of the audience) can't see it coming, at any point. Here, Friedman had enough advance notice to try to attempt an escape, and the pie throwers were so timid/inept that they only ended up mussing his sweater. This was a subpar, unfunny pieing. If you want to see a proper pieing, look here.
Holy shit! Fafblog is back! Henry, you're amazing. More on topic, I tend to agree with Ryan.
Bah! The affrontery of those blackguards! I, Tom Friedman, would never stoop to such base and ignoble tactics, although I would enthusiastically support policies that get a million Iraqis killed -- because I have standards!
Did you think it was funny when someone spat in Jane Fonda's face at a book signing?? This idea of physically assaulting and publicly humiliating people for their ideas is offensive and deeply anti-democratic.
This is juvenile, but I would be lying if it didn't bring a smile to my face. After all, South Park has won a Peabody. I think this shows how bad Friedman is at thinking on his feet. He took forever to poke fun at himself by licking his finger. He should have embraced the moment and used it to rev the crowd up and make the pie-throwers feel small. Instead, he just underscored why he's a whiny tool.
james kabala said: The BDH editorial seems to think it was applause for Friedman's composure, and it probably was. (Obviously people who attend a Friedman lecture generally would not regard Friedman as a monster.) not true. anyway, enough of that.
I'm deeply perplexed by the attitude expressed above--apparently, it's impossible to think that pie-ing an invited speaker is juvenile and counterproductive without also being a committed Iraq War supporter?
ben, absolutely not.
Did you think it was funny when someone spat in Jane Fonda's face at a book signing?? No. Spitting is almost never funny. There is no humor in phlegm. But if Fonda had been hit with a pie, then it would be funny.
Tom Friedman is just another AIPAC driven, warmongering member of "The Jewish Lobby" [sorry... 'The Israel lobby'] ! [...and maybe an Israeli spy too? ;-) ] QED
Pie throwing = if I disagree with you, I will attempt to silence you via physical attack rather than intellectual debate.
though i've never tossed a pie at anyone, and i've never even thought about doing it, i don't think the act is designed to silence anyone.
I was stunned to see Matt declare this to be funny. The righteousness and bile of the commenters who think it's fine to humiliate people you disagree with is predictable, given the decline of public discourse. But I had higher expectations of Matt.
I was stunned to see Matt declare this to be funny. The righteousness and bile of the commenters who think it's fine to humiliate people you disagree with is predictable, given the decline of public discourse. But I had higher expectations of Matt.
BTW, if it so funny to throw pies at speakers, can Matthew post the time and date of his next HITS event? I'm not saying that I would attend, but still, I'll bet somebody might want to inject a little humor, right? That about says it. The pie throwing incident is of no great import, but I do find it depressing that Al has done a better job than Matt of commenting on this issue.
I'm surprised that so few people are getting this right. To me, both of the dominant views (one, "its simply funny" and two, "throwing a pie at a public speaker is always wrong") are dead wrong. One: Funny.. hm. When people who deserve a pie are pie'd, it doesn't strike me as funny - it merely strikes me as appropriate. No lolz.. I'm not six. And two: It is clearly true that many people who find themselves speaking on television, in newspapers, and at universities should not be doing so. I have two sorts of figures in mind that I think are really difficult to defend. The first is people who are simply not serious. Remember that John Edwards comment, six months back? You can't argue for that. The second is.. well, commentators and policy-advisers like Bill Kristol. Its already been brought up, but again, our society can't privilege people who advocate war crimes. There should be political and cultural taboos in place that prevent them from becoming within a light year of non-fringe/mainstream. As usual, there isn't a convenient blanket philosophy to apply to the pie question. It seems perfectly reasonable to say something like this: certain people who hold particular positions deserve to be intimidated and humiliated in public. Unquestionably. And its obvious. Take the profound social consequences of being racist, say, or even sexist. These punishments are immediate and deeply damning, and they should be. All I'm saying is that we should consider adding "calling presidential candidates 'fags'" and "supporting war crimes" to the heap. This is hardly a slippery slope.
Yeah, funny. You're funny Matt. A spinning top seeking balance.
Comments closed May 08, 2008. |
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Heads in the Sand
Hitting somebody with a pie is always funny. But I imagine it won't be so funny for those kids if they get kicked out of school.
Posted by blah | April 24, 2008 12:00 PM