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The Kagans We Need

08 Apr 2008 04:22 pm

Having earlier noted that the United States of America is suffering from a dire shortfall of Kagans, the good news is that we now have more words written by Fred Kagan that ever before, courtesy of National Review. In the course of a 5,000+ word essay he pulls of the neat trick of analogizing his opponents to Neville Chamberlain in the second graf. The general structure of the argument seems to be that, given that Chamberlain was skeptical of the merits of fighting a war over a "far-off country of which we know little" any and all refusal to fight wars in such countries is likely to lead to Adolf Hitler conquering the world.

I mean that characterization pretty seriously.

Here's Kagan loading the argumentative dice in paragraph three: "Unless the advocates of defeat can show, as they have not yet done, that the consequences of losing are very likely to be small not simply the day after the last American leaves Iraq, but over the next five, ten, and 50 years, then what they are really selling is short-term relief in exchange for long-term pain."

Now, of course, not being a hugely dishonest person I can't tell you that I have any real way to predict with any confidence what Iraq, the Middle East, or the world at large will look like in 50 years. The best I could offer is the commonsensical observation that it will depend on a great many things other than Iraq. It seems, however, that Kagan is a hugely dishonest person and hence has no compunction about propounding this nonsensical standard of argument. But Iraq has, obviously, opportunity costs. There are lots of things we could be doing with our military that aren't being done. Can Kagan guarantee that every single one of those things has consequences are very likely to be small over the next 50 years? Of course not -- it's preposterous. Similarly, by this standard (which is usual with neocon arguments) it can never be correct for any country to bring any war to an end.

Meanwhile, this seems like as good a time as any to revisit Fred Kagan's three point plan for winning the war on terror. It's something I uncovered doing Heads in the Sand research and appeared in his article "Fear not the Taliban" in the November 19, 2001 issue of The Weekly Standard:

Above all, we must abandon fear and focus on our goals. It is not enough to eliminate al Qaeda or overthrow the Taliban, our immediate objectives. Neither is it enough simply to say that we aim to end terrorism. Instead, we must state specifically and categorically what is to be done:
  • Replace the Taliban with a stable Afghan regime committed to functioning as a respectable member of the international system and preventing the use of its territory and resources for the support of terrorism.
  • Eliminate to the best of our ability known terrorist organizations such as al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad.
  • Replace Saddam Hussein's criminal regime before he finds a way to use the chemical and biological weapons we know he is developing for a devastating attack on the United States.
To achieve these aims will require significant rearmament, necessitating major increases in defense funding at a time when a nervous administration would prefer to focus on stimulating the economy. The economy is important, but winning the war is nonnegotiable. We no longer can ask why we should fight in a far-off land of which we know nothing -- the connection between Kabul and New York is painfully clear. This is not a time for half-measures or turning inward. Above all, it is not a time for fear. It is a time for leadership that lives up to the quality of the American people, who have shown themselves ready for sacrifice. And it is a time for decisive action.

This is like an ur-text for Green Lantern thinking. If only we can overcome fear then our rings will work on yellow objects we'll be able to eliminate all terrorist groups and Saddam's regime simultaneously. In the meantime, Kagan just asserts without evidence (and as we now know, wrongly) that Saddam Hussein was not only developing biological and chemical weapons (which was at least widely believed) but also that he was developing them in order to launch a devastating attack on the United States (through what mechanism?) which was always preposterous.

But whatever. Agree with Kagan or you're the next Chamberlain.

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Comments (33)

I wonder if Fred Kagan and Victor Davis Handjob have a bet going to see which one can be the most wrongheaded turd on the planet.

I notice that turning Iraq into a stable regime committed to functioning as a respectable member of the international system and preventing the use of its territory and resources for the support of terrorism didn't seem to be one of Kagan's key goals. Rather, it was merely eliminating Hussein -- what happened after that to Iraq seemed to him to be rather beside the point.

I read that whole damn thing. The amazingest part of his whole elaborate Potemkin argument is that, while we must not choose defeat, at no point does he ever bother to define victory. What does it look like? How do we know when we won?

But that is immaterial; what's important is beating down the same "Iraq is ruining the economy" strawman in 4 different guises (gas prices, public spending, recession, some other shit) before moving on to an "Islam can't handle democracy" strawman (because that's what people mean when they say "you can't force democracy onto a society with none of the prerequisite social structures"). Then he dallies around in some "squint just right" defenses of the Surge's tactical successes as irrefutable evidence that its objective has been met. Finally he rounds things out with a series of cut-and-paste Quotes from Jihadists, which we are to take at face value and credulously build our strategy around without ever asking if maybe there's an ulterior motive to AQI et al broadcasting "If America leaves Iraq we Win!"

it's an impressive piece. He shows himself to be so deft at refuting arguments nobody's making that he doesn't even have to make one of his own.

In light of this new essay we must ask why Barack Obama wants to reopen Auschwitz.

I read that whole damn thing. The amazingest part of his whole elaborate Potemkin argument is that, while we must not choose defeat, at no point does he ever bother to define victory. What does it look like? How do we know when we won?

But that is immaterial; what's important is beating down the same "Iraq is ruining the economy" strawman in 4 different guises (gas prices, public spending, recession, some other shit) before moving on to an "Islam can't handle democracy" strawman (because that's what people mean when they say "you can't force democracy onto a society with none of the prerequisite social structures"). Then he dallies around in some "squint just right" defenses of the Surge's tactical successes as irrefutable evidence that its objective has been met. Finally he rounds things out with a series of cut-and-paste Quotes from Jihadists, which we are to take at face value and credulously build our strategy around without ever asking if maybe there's an ulterior motive to AQI et al broadcasting "If America leaves Iraq we Win!"

it's an impressive piece. He shows himself to be so deft at refuting arguments nobody's making that he doesn't even have to make one of his own.

Reading that crap, I'm reminded of the Python's "Other Other Plan" joke.

I would have to concede to Kagan that if we hadn't invaded Iraq in 2003 then Saddam would most likely be riding into Paris right now in triumph with the vast armies of the jihad swarming all the cities of Europe not devestated by mustard gas (and in this sense he'd be even worse that Hitler!). But what Kagan doesn't see is that Saddam would eventually have invaded Russia after an unsuccessful air campaign to secure the English Channel, and his army would then simply be disintegrated by the great Russian winter, for how could a desert army survive such conditions? After that, our liberation of Europe would be relatively quick and with perhaps fewer casualties than we're suffering now.
And who knows? With our army in Europe maybe we could finally have that war with Russia that we've always wanted. And then, of course, to China (everyone talks about going to Moscow, real men talk about going to Beijing.)

This shows a disappointing lack of professional courtesy and sympathy from Kagan. If he starts monopolizing the hackneyed grade-school 1938 appeasement references, what's Herr Kraphammer left with? The man's gotta eat, Fred!

Anyone beating the drum for war who looks as ridiculous as Fred Kagan shouldn't be taken seriously. I think he lives on jello pudding pops. Not only would he not survive a week in the desert like the troops he is so fond of sending to war - I'm not sure he'd survive a week in a sandbox since all of the Jello pudding pops would melt and he'd potentially starve.

His warmongering is probably just a defense mechanism from getting made fun of his whole life. Kicking butt in writing is a lot better than getting one's butt kicked on the playground, no?

I wonder what other hypotheticals Kagan can predict fifty years from now. One future hypothetical I can garuntee with almost certainty - that Kagan's doughy, porcine ass will not be peppered by the shrapnel of an IED in the war that he has so bravely cheerlead in the next fifty years.

edsbowlingshoe - I don't know why, but the pudding pop thing is absolutely killing me.

Above all, it is not a time for fear. --Kagan

It's odd that someone who wrote that in 2001 has done nothing but fans the flames of fear ever since.

Well, odd to those with even a modest amount of rational thought.

I think we should come up with a corollary to Goodwin's Law in relation to Chamberlain. With as much as the right uses him as their fall back insult (since logic and facts seem to not be their stock and trade), I think it's necessary.

I love the fact that these people keep repeating exactly the same arguments they made to get us into this war.

Everybody can now see where they lead, and have them and their consequences in front of our eyes at the same time.

Hopefully, this will cause those arguments to be that much less plausible in the future.

I think that over the years, one thing has become blindingly obvious; the National Review, Weekly Standard, and much of the GOP don't have a drug test policies. It's really the only logical explanation.

It was one of the Kagan's who sneered, in relation to the strain on families caused by lengthened and repeated deployments, that the troops can come home when they 'win'. I propose airlifting the Kagan's to the middle of Iraq or Afghanistan. They can come home when we 'win'.

Cannot the Kagans with their enormous influence over the rightwing American media (they OWN the Washinton Post for godssakes) get their own primetime TV show, "America's Top Enemy"? The Hitler-of-the-week grand prize can go to Moqtada al-Sadr, or Hugo Chavez, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Jeremiah Wright, or the French nation, or Europeans generally.

socctty writes: "edsbowlingshoe - I don't know why, but the pudding pop thing is absolutely killing me."

Me too. Great line, and a perfect image.

I love the fact that these people keep repeating exactly the same arguments they made to get us into this war.

That's the great thing about right-wing punditry. No matter how consistently wrong you have been, the right still believes what you say. What an easy gig! You can f*** up all you want, as long as you're angry enough and support whatever the party tells you to. I guess form some, it beats thinking and work.

His warmongering is probably just a defense mechanism from getting made fun of his whole life.

I strongly suspect that your assertion explains a whole lot about modern "conservatism". For instance, picture little "Newt" Gingrich in an elementary school playground....

The Kagans (individually, or together) are also in the list of potential stars in my reality series, 'Let's Kidnap And Waterboard Neocon Warmongering Filth'.

"in order to launch a devastating attack on the United States (through what mechanism?) which was always preposterous."

This was always the key link that was assumed by war supporters (and even more like a comic-book narrative than the Green Lantern part) but seemed patently absurd to me. I don't want to badger anyone about this, but did MY believe this to be preposterous in 2003? If not, what was his rationale based on? I'm just curious, I don' t mean to rehash a discussion or a mea culpa that's already been made.

"not devestated by mustard gas (and in this sense he'd be even worse that Hitler!)."

A quibble: Hitler was temporarily blinded in WWI by mustard gas. At least he knew what it could do, unlike this fucktard Kagan.

Colatina: Matt was even more ignorant of military matters four years ago than he is now. If you read his past mea culpas, he simply believed all the "Big Dog Democrats" like Clinton and Kerry. Now he (supposedly) knows better.

It's the difference from being in college and being out of college for the last four years.

And now we await Chris Ford, Al, Fred, and Powell to dive in here and proclaim that Kagan has it entirely right - we just need to do those three things he said and we're HOME FREE! No more terrorism!

And it will only take McCain's 100 years (or thousand years or ten thousand years, as Josh Marshall points out McCain has also said. Why stop at 100 years when you can take ten or a hundred times as long? McCain even said a MILLION years!)

pseud in nc writes: "The Kagans (individually, or together) are also in the list of potential stars in my reality series, 'Let's Kidnap And Waterboard Neocon Warmongering Filth'."

I'd lie to suggest running one of those experiments where they have to give each other progressively stronger shocks, just to see how far they would go. I think you'd end up with some deep-fried Kagans.

You could feed the results to the non-Kagan filth.

Many people are discussing 'Gordon makes it official, declares for draft' at 'M ixedfriends. com', free inter-racial dating club. Good for them

Emma be sexy.

For the Kagans, the fact that there are actually people that make up the US and the US military is rather immaterial. To the Kagans, these are simply tools used to advance their revolutionary fetish of having the world turn democratic at the barrel of a gun. If this happens, they get to be the great prophets who ushered in a new age and all the cheerleaders that dissed them in high school will be old and fat and wishing they slept with a Kagan when they got the chance. The US and its military simply serve the purpose that the proletariat did for Trotskyites: just a means to an end. As long as you say you care about those means, you can trash them all you want. Trotsky committed state terrorism against the working class in Russia. The Kagans have aided and abetted weakening our military, breaking up military families and wrecking our Constitution and treasury. They are masturbatory scum.

Chamberlain is, of course the Devil, and Churchill the hero, even though Churchill used mustard gas on Iraqi villages in the '20's--just like Saddam did later. But if Saddam was Churchill, that makes Kagen Goebbels, right?

I hereby propose a new rule for the internets:

In any discussion related to contemporary matters of war and peace, the first person to mention Neville Chamberlain automatically loses the argument. Additionally, this person will be sacked from their job, barred from ever holding any position in the United States Government, and compelled to perform 400 hours of community service cleaning bedpans at Walter Reed Hospital.

All in favor?

The thing I love about the '___ is like Chamberlain' meme is that most of the time, Chamberlain's main flaw is depicted as not liking war enough. How dare that bastard not want to kill millions of people in an armed conflict! (And of course, in contrast, Churchill's main virtue is wanting to go to war.)

All in favor? --LaFollette Progressive

Aye!

I read the whole piece, and had a mental picture of Freddy Kagan chest-thumping his man boobs while Kimberly Kagan squealed with delight while holding his plate of crabpuffs and glass of Viongner.

Ewwwwwww............

p.s.- I also saw Freddy and O'Hanlon doing their tag team on reality at AEI a few weeks ago. Joe Klein was in the audience. To give Joe credit for coming around, he had an expression on his face like Micheal Corleone waiting for the train to screech loud enough so he could shoot Kagan and O'Hanlon in the head.

It seems, however, that Kagan is a hugely dishonest person

You go to war with the Kagans you have, not the Kagans you might want or wish to have at a later time.

Matt,
Still awaiting a response on your reporting of the Saddam/Pentagon report. You went over the top saying it showed no links to al Qaeda but then when the full report came out and the cherry picked press reports became obsolete you dropped it. You know where to find me.

Matt,
Still awaiting a response on your reporting of the Saddam/Pentagon report. You went over the top saying it showed no links to al Qaeda but then when the full report came out and the cherry picked press reports became obsolete you dropped it. You know where to find me.


Comments closed April 22, 2008.

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