The objection that co-ed submarines would be logistically problematic has always seemed to me to be a reasonable concern on the part of the Navy, but the obvious remedy wasn't to ban women from submarines it was to create some all-woman submarine crews. Now it looks like the Navy's going to take things in that direction.
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Women Under the Sea
07 Apr 2008 12:12 pm
Comments (35)
Perhaps someone could make a movie utilizing this theme.
Uh, that's an April Fools joke from the guys at the Subsim forum. Feministing got taken in too.
And just like that, one of my adolescent fantasies is fulfilled! Anyone know how I'd go about stowing away on one of those babies?
I hope they can steer that sub toward an island inhabited only by a tribe of warrior Amazons whose idea of torturing male prisoners is to sex them to near death.
Hop aboard the USS Separate But Equal!
(This isn't an area where I think strict equality is necessarily vital, but I imagine the actual application of an all female boat in the Navy is going to be problematic in all sorts of ways--assigned responsibilities, career prospects of officers, etc.)
April Fool's joke or not, kudos to the writer for including the phrase "avoid mixing with seamen."
The quote from the petty officer right near the end tipped me off that this was April Fool's material. But to be fair to those taken in it does read for the most part like a serious article.
But this doesn't go far enough -- we need to ban men from submarines for 142 years to make up for previous descrimination.
Matt obviously didn't look at the URL, but he apparently didn't read the article either. Next-to-last paragraph:
Chief Petty Officer Doug Wilson disagrees. "Close quarters with mixed crews produce romantic relationships. Our culture has given up on sexual purity, so why do we expect people will magically become `professional' and abstinent once they are crammed together inside a 350 tube?" He shakes his head. "I went to submarines to get a breather from my wife and her mother. Especially her mother. Now I have to spend 60 days underwater with women? You know how long they take in the bathroom."
Or is Matt trying to pull a belated April Fool on his readers?
I don't care if it is an April Fool's joke. It's a fantastic premise for porn.
they missed a trick by not pointing out that this would also be sharia-compliant.
Yeah, no way a Petty Officer could not know how fast women cadets at the Naval Academy (or the other service academies) have to get thru the bathroom!
I like the sidebar: "News Analysis: Where do they get off?"
Heh.
IMU beat me to it. I'm sure there a few movies already being made based on this premise. What's it been, like 5 days?
From people I know in the submarine community, the biggest issue is the risk of pregnancy. Submarines cannot helicopter transport out crew requiring medical care the way surface ships can. They will often even screen out male medical waiver candidates for the same reason: the inability to quickly remove members of the crew for medical reasons.
That's crazy!
Don't you know they attract sharks?
Wasn't this an April fools joke? Feministing made the same mistake.
This is going to be a like a college women's field hockey, basketball, or volleyball team. Many colleges are having problems with the lesbian head coach, in the Navy's case it will be skipper, having relations with the players on the team. On this boat it will become a factional mess with the lesbians versus the non-lesbians, versus the lesbians who are in favor with a certain commander. All with nuclear missiles aboard.
The social engineers should stick with school bussing of minorities into white neighborhoods.
I didn't read it through to the end, but the initial paragraphs captured the tone of what a NY Times story on women in submarines would sound like. Kudos to whoever wrote it.
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
Since Operation Petticoat turned out to be the funniest Cary Grant movie ever, I wholeheartedly recommend making subs coed. Yes the sub was painted pink, and a busty female officer accidentally fouled up a torpedo strike, but the women did help fix the main engine and their underwear was of some use in getting out of a depth charge attack.
Based on this film I also recommend that supply officers steal from supply depots and from the local population.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053143/
Underwater hotness.
COME ON! Let's have some "Up Periscope!" comments, already!
You guys are slipping badly.
Colatina is incorrect about Operation Petticoat being the the funniest Cary Grant movie ever, but otherwise the comment seems spot on. You've just got to make sure the women on board are well enough endowed so as to be able to use their bras as engine-fixing devices.
"bras as engine-fixing devices."
I think it was actually a girdle.
_Bringing up Baby_ may be funnier, I admit.
This is good news. In Y: The Last Man, the lack of female submarine crew members in the United States Navy led to Australia being the world's sea power when they became one of only a small handful of nations with submarines still operating when all the men died.
Right, they are going to staff (snicker) an entire submarine with women who have never served on a sub before. Officers and all.
Come on Matt, I come here because you usually think before you post.
So I suppose all the female sailors' menstrual cycles will synchronize during long deployments. I wonder if they'll see increases in personell problems around certain times of the month related to hormone fluctuations? (I mean this is a serious question, not a sexist joke.)
Matt needs to leave the military analysis to others.
Yes -- others like New York Times military correspondent Seymour Conch.
So, anyone think Matthew is going to post an Update acknowledging that it's an April Fools joke?
"From people I know in the submarine community, the biggest issue is the risk of pregnancy. Submarines cannot helicopter transport out crew requiring medical care the way surface ships can."
This makes no sense to me. I see no reason why a sub can't surface - other than the issues involved with breaking the route, of course, which would be true of any other medical emergency - to transfer someone to a sea rescue chopper. That's done all the time for surface ships and I see no technical reason why a sub can't do it.
Also, it's hardly like expecting someone to get pregnant one day, then expecting a medical emergency the next. Nor is it likely to occur during an actual combat mission.
The obvious solution is birth control pills, or even a surgical block.
Pregnancy as an excuse seems to me to be a complete crock. It's not like males don't have emergency medical issues that would also require evacuation.
I would hope nobody is suggesting a pregnant female is serving during her pregnancy. Caroline Corr might play the drums up until her seventh month during their 2004 tour, but this is hardly comparable. If they can't fly late in pregnancy, I would assume they can't endure submersion, either. So where's the risk?
As for interpersonal relations, so what? The notion that military discipline requires no sex is another crock. Who cares if personnel are screwing? Either your military training is sufficient to deal with the implications of that or it isn't. Blame your training if it isn't.
This is too obviously false to work as an April Fool's joke. In case the subsim folks are paying attention: next time, try to come up with something a little more believable.
That's done all the time for surface ships and I see no technical reason why a sub can't do it.
Submarines have to maintain secrecy of location and mission for long periods of time. You can't just pop up and let the enemy know you're there. It's really quite simple. Males do have emergency medical problems, but there is a medic for that. No one is having a baby on ship.
Sorry, Brad, won't wash. As I said, we're not at war, and regardless of secrecy requirements, there are plenty of solutions to prevent pregnancies. It's simply a nonsensical notion that male medical emergencies are any different from female ones. Pregnancy is not a "medical emergency" in any event. You have nine months to worry about getting a female off a ship - even in war time, that is not going to be an issue.
Use some common sense. It's simply sexism at the core of that argument.
There's absolutely no reason why a female can't operate on board a submarine any more than any other ship or any other military vehicle in any branch of the services. Pregnancy is absolutely not an issue.
Comments closed April 21, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
Fascinating, but where is the post on China, Tibet, the Olympic Torch and network profits?
Posted by Garuda | April 7, 2008 12:21 PM