In case you needed my opinion to figure this out, Reverend Wright doesn't seem to be doing his former parishoner any favors, choosing instead to hog as much of the spotlight as possible, reiterate the most objectionable of his greatest hits, and I guess just see what John McCain can do with this. One supposes this'll lead to a more open breach between Wright and Obama, which might help the latter in the long run, but it's a pretty depressing mess at this point.
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Wright Round Baby
29 Apr 2008 06:30 am
Comments (97)
As a strong Obama supporter, I think Wright sunk his candidacy yesterday. He accentuated the "otherness" of himself and, by the msm's enthusiastic extension, Obama.
In somewhat more seriousness, you should probably link to Bob Herbert's column -- one of the few to spend a good bit of time situating Wright's recent tour as purposefully to focus on himself and to harm Obama.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/opinion/29herbert.html
As a Southerner, I am shocked, shocked to discover that a preacher could be a vain huckster intent on promoting his interests above all else. This never happens here in Georgia.
Well, I think this is one of the reasons party's don't usually nominate presidential candidates who've never previously run in a serious political campaign...
Still, cheer up! Now that Alan Keyes has been dumped by the Constitution Party, he's free once more to become McCain's VP, and then later the top of the ticket in September after Cindy shoots John following a National Enquirer story.
After that, it's Round Two of the great Obama vs. Keyes championship, and I'll lay odds that Barack makes it 2-0.
Out of a depressed curiosity, has anyone ever seen the entire national press corps move with such swiftness an co-ordination to damn a candidate to failure? I mean, it was pretty bad with Gore in 2000, but at this point, it feels like the every major news outlet in the country is being run by Hillary Clinton's press shop.
We hardly needed your opinion but that doesn't mean it wasn't welcome.
Yes it all fell apart in the Q&A, when we saw Wright's weak side
I think this could work out pretty well for Obama as it is becoming increasingly clear that the dude was being very sincere and accurate in his Philadelphia speech, where he explained at length just why he disagrees with Wright. Obama's Christian forgiveness of his pastor is exemplary--he now has the opportunity to explain just why he so disagrees him. (That Wright can't see that he is playing politics is at once incredible and explains much.)
If Obama sat and listened to that buffoon for 20 years it really does say an awful lot about Obama.
It also tells me Obama is uterly unfit to be President of the US.
If Obama sat and listened to that buffoon for 20 years it really does say an awful lot about Obama.
It also tells me Obama is uterly unfit to be President of the US.
If Obama doesn't grab this guy by his shirt collar and belt and then throw him under the next oncoming bus--preferably doing >55 mph--he is a fool.
I'm with everyone in the pouty "it's over" camp, but I am shocked, really, that out of every mouth on the teevee comes the thought that Wright is an obvious loony toon AND that his particular utterances need dissecting. Maybe I'll spend the next news cycle diagramming why the crazy on my corner thinks "soup" is where "the Jesus" lives. What does he mean by that?
Also, everyone has to admit in light of this poofest, Obama just doesn't want this that badly. I hoped he did, but not taking this opportunity to gut and hang this Judas has no other explanation. Back to pouting.
Okay, I'll say it. This is excellent news for Hillary.
I wish people would stop playing the media's game on this. They love this story but it's *irrelevant*. We already knew Wright was a nutter, but he's not running for President. Obama is, so let's try and regain some sanity and listen to what he has to say about stuff that matters, okay?
Obama needs to reprise Prince Hal's "I know thee not, old man" speech.
And this is why I (and others) reacted negatively to the Philadelphia speech. Obama needed to clearly and unequivocally disassociate himself with Wright, not merely some of his ideas. Each time Wright pops off now, Obama's formulation that he can no more disassociate himself from Wright than he could disassociate himself from the black community will come back to haunt him.
When Obama set out for an unconventional campaign (filled with Alinsky teaching moments) this was the risk he was taking.
And this is why I (and others) reacted negatively to the Philadelphia speech. Obama needed to clearly and unequivocally disassociate himself with Wright, not merely some of his ideas. Each time Wright pops off now, Obama's formulation that he can no more disassociate himself from Wright than he could disassociate himself from the black community will come back to haunt him.
When Obama set out for an unconventional campaign (filled with Alinsky teaching moments) this was the risk he was taking.
Jim: why are you wrong on this?
When we vote for president why are voting to trust them with everything, the whole works. we have to trust them to be a regal king ore queen for the allotted 4 years, to set priorities, to listen to us. That is why it becomes such a personality and judgement driven process. that is why the little things seem huge.
Wright is not a little thing though.
Its not just where obama went for church on sundays. its not seperate from politics because this pastor is as political as the berrigan brothers. And as much as I love the berrigan brothers in theory I could never go be a part of thier church. I look and listen and find that wright is a monster.
And 90 -95% of the country is to the left of me.
Obama said a million times his judgement was better and this shows that for twenty years his judgement is piss poor.
Wright called him a liar yesterday when he said obama only distanced himself for political reasons.
Obama exposes himself with half truths when he keps calling the guy his former pastor. The guy has been his pastor for twenty years and is only recently his ex-pastor because the guy retired two months ago.
And yesterday we saw the lie when Obama says he never heard these things in twenty years because it was apparent to everyone yesterday that the guy is irrepressable and obama must have heard this crazy crap a thousand times in 20 years.
Ansd Brian:
has a candidacy ever failed so quickly: yes with dean's scream.
reposted from the previous version of the post:
and yglesias joins into the chorus of people on the left saying that wright should know his place and shut up. why don't you talk about how the media COMPLETELY misrepresents what wright has been saying the past couple days. being complicit in character assassination isn't an acceptable side effect of supporting a candidate for president.
Credit where credit is due, Steve Sailer called this months ago with this post, "Is Rev. Wright trying to sabotage Obama?". Excerpt:
The more I think about it, the more the following speculation makes sense: that Obama's spiritual advisor, Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr., is trying to sabotage Obama's campaign.
Rev. Wright has multiple reasons to do it:
1. Spite: Obama dumped him at the last moment from his big spot on national TV giving the invocation at Obama's kickoff rally in Springfield last winter.
2. Glory: Wright craves attention the way Britney Spears does.
3. Ideology: Wright despises the idea that whites would give a black man like Obama an even break. As he told Obama when they first met (p. 283 of Obama's Dreams from My Father):
"Cops don't check my bank account when they pull me over and make me spread-eagle against the car. These miseducated brothers, like that sociologist at the University of Chicago [William Julius Wilson], talking about 'the declining significance of race.' Now, what country is he living in?"
Did any of y'all actually watch the Q&A, or are you just relying on the Post's gross mischaracterization?
If my fellow Americans want some stupid sh*t like Wright to tell them important lessons about the candidate's judgment, and to therefore choose someone like McCain that they feel better about, f*** 'em.
Let me be clear: I'm not running for office. I'm not a public intellectual trying to bring people together. I'm not begging to go into someone's chosen hive of approved 'ordinary' folk to beg for their approval. I'm an individual with his own capacity to think.
I'm openly saying that if this sort of sh*t is more important to you than, say, the actual public record of the Republican impact on the nation and the world, then f*** you.
Me personally? I wouldn't give the slightest sh*t if McCain's pastor had called each and every week for God to slaughter all homosexuals and Arabs and Muslims and burn the secular humanists et cetera -- unless for some reason McCain was pushing that agenda or related people into public positions.
Same way as the nauseous feeling I'll get if I have to vote for another Clinton term -- I'll deal with it versus actual priorities.
Then again, I'm not a god, and stuff like this can matter. I'm not necessarily yet persuaded that the degree of this scandal right now portends all possible futures.
Democracies are what they actually are. If My Fellow Americans decide in large degree to shovel the country down the sh*tter, it's their choice. And they can blame the candidates and parties all they want. They know very well the policy differences between the major parties, and if they choose instead to decide based on their collection of Precious Moments caricatures and doll figures, so be it.
For those Obama supporters, try to put yourself in someone else's shoes: just imagine how outraged we'd be if it turned out that Bush and Cheney were intimately linked to Rush Limbaugh, called in to his show, or openly praised him as a "great American." It would be considered a national outrage.
If My Fellow Americans decide in large degree to shovel the country down the sh*tter, it's their choice. And they can blame the candidates and parties all they want. They know very well the policy differences between the major parties, and if they choose instead to decide based on their collection of Precious Moments caricatures and doll figures, so be it.
I believe a similar argument was made regarding the destruction of the old New York Penn Station. We make a choice to live in the sort of place we're willing to pay for, and at a certain point, the public environment we live in is the way it is because the alternative is too costly, in our personal calculus.
Wright isn't doing Obama any favors, but I will withhold judgment as to whether there will be a significant electoral impact.
So if Wright is so bad for Obama, what about Rev Hagee and McCain??? You know, the world is ending soon, Katria was divine retribution for homosexuality, etc. Relax people, its April.
"They know very well the policy differences between the major parties..."
El Cid,
You are eliding the salient point: the differences between the two major parties (e.g., between an Olympia Snowe and an Evan Bayh) aren't as big as the distance between Obama's Alinsky-Wright leftist ideology and the political center. Wright is relevant here because, again, Obama chose him as to be his mentor and spiritual leader and nodded along for 20 years.
...just imagine how outraged we'd be if it turned out that Bush and Cheney were intimately linked to Rush Limbaugh, called in to his show, or openly praised him as a "great American." It would be considered a national outrage.
And by "national outrage" is meant "an ordinary day of any ordinary week", right?
The effect will be not only to clearly separate Obama from Wright but to make people heartily sick of hearing about Wright- thus Wright will be of no use to McCain in the fall. This is a bad thing why, exactly?
By the way, those relying on media fictions to judge Wright are low-grade morons. Much of what Wright says is both true and needs to be said. I'm sick and tired of the brainless jingoism that has dragged this country into the mud. We will get out of it only by being a lot more self-critical, not by continuing to stifle and marginalize critical voices like Wright's.
And by "national outrage" is meant "an ordinary day of any ordinary week", right?
Too deadpan?
And red-baiting assholes like Fred can bite me. They are complicit in BushCo's crimes.
Whatever remnants of electability Obama still had disappeared yesterday. While the polls don't show it yet, he will get his clock cleaned in a general election.
So what do the Democrats do? Risk alienating Obama supporters by forcing Hillary to the nomination? Or take their chances with a guy who befriends terrorists and sits in the pews of a racist, self-absorbed preacher?
You can't write this stuff. The Democrats had a fastball down the middle for this Presidential election, and it appears the bat won't even leave their shoulder.
What El Cid said.
For real, Steve LeBonne...who knew their where five stages of Obama letdown.
Faith Salie, she of roughly triple MY's Q rating, sez
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/fairgame/.jukebox?action=viewMedia&mediaId=700261&podcastId=12804
I don't find Wright's opinions, self-indulgently expressed as they are, to be all that offensive. I'm hard to offend. But Wright basically called Obama a phony and characterized the Philadelphia race speech as pandering. Obama cannot allow those statements to pass without a direct and aggressive response.
Fred, yes, I understand you perceive Obama and pretty much the entire Democratic Party as fellow travelers if not pro-bin Laden Stalinists. This does not surprise me.
I am not asking you to agree with my conclusions that the political "center" is still dominated by a poisonous set of Reaganite / New Right / Third Way crap.
Again, if My Fellow Americans want to hallucinate that Barack Obama is about to don a beret and black leather jacket and blow up math buildings while appropriating our bodily fluids for the Great Saul Alinsky Revolution -- while simultaneously replacing all our grandchildren with Trust Fund Scumbags who can only eat organic arugula & eggwhites while sneering at the Proletarians so beloved by The Good Common Decent Folk Republicans And Chris Matthews -- let them do it. It's their choice.
It would be astounding idiocy, but hey, as long as some majority, plurality, or significant minority thinks that one of our major Democratic Party political candidates is one inauguration away from declaring Permanent Trotskyist / Maoist Revolution, it must be correct!
After all, it's not like there's any available empirical evidence about the differential impact of the two parties' overall policies on the country.
What's important is how our magical divining rods of judgment help us find the ruby crystal which once held aloft at a certain time of day on a certain day once every four years, the secret code of the map can be revealed so that we can decipher the numbers which will lead us to the chapter of the Bible which hints at the safety deposit box holding the tiny painting which once interpreted correctly will tell us what's in Barack Hussein Huey Newton Obama's heart, and this will help us decide if we want to stay in Iraq for 100 years (as long as it becomes a magical land of peace & pots o'gold) and deregulating our financial system (but McCain sooooo promises he learned from the S&L destruction) and shoveling tax cuts to the superwealthy.
Otherwise without the magic Obama code, how would we know?
Now just imagine if the other Democratic candidate had been caught in a lying about her national security experience, then caught lying about why she lied, and when questioned basically responded so what.
oops,
Their? Where? D'oh
there were five stages of Obama letdown, of course
matt why are playing into this game??? why is no one calling out MSM HUGE misrepresentation of what wright actually says??? so frustrating. why are all the honkies still hating?
Oooh. I've got a stomachache. It's a dizzy feeling that overcomes me when I'm completely divided between
-- on the one hand, the opinion that Wright is a lot better than the right-wing preachers who have been hanging around the Oval Office for years . . . plus a clear realization that a lot of the fuss about him is based on a racial double standard . . .
-- and on the other hand, the knowledge that he is absolutely AWFUL politically. He gave a pretty good speech the other night at NAACP, but this Q&A shows that he has absolutely no sense of the audience outside the audience of people in the immediate room, and/or doesn't give much of a damn about what he does to Obama.
Four consoling thoughts. One, it's April. Two, McCain thinks we should stay in Iraq for 100 years, at which point he will be 532 years old. Three, Matt is getting better at coming up with funny titles for posts.
Four, if we *do* win this one, we're actually going to have a liberal president for the first time in my memory.
But five, I think I'm going to need to develop a drinking habit this election season. Crown Royal is out, though. Can you drown your sorrows in Rooibos?
After Wright's appearance on Moyers' show, I felt he was seriously misunderstood in the press - until yesterday. Yes, the media has lashed Wright to the stake, but the minister is feeding the fire of his own burning.
Obama really does have to cut any remaining chords to his former pastor, no matter how much it hurts. Otherwise, I agree, his chances for the nomination are hobbled and the road to the White House leads to nowhere.
At the same time, I really wish the media would cast as harsh a spotlight on Bill Clinton. He has far more of an impact on Hillary than Wright does on Obama. Should she be elected, the ramifications are huge - and potentially dangerous.
hog as much of the spotlight as possible
This is stupid. Are you Steve Sailer now or something? Before this week the man was being vilified on cable news continually for hours a day and didn't say one word. For a whole month. I think it's clear enough that he could've gotten an interview on any station at any time he wanted, but he didn't. So can we hold off on calling him a disgusting indulgent publicity hog, please?
Matt: I'm at work and have to run. Could you please find out if Rudy Giuliani has be defacto excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church and why the MSM doesn't give a shit? Obama isn't the only politician with pastor problems.
Yes, Judy, but Bill was president for 8 years. I don't like the idea of an ex-pres as first spouse either, but it's hard to paint him as a dangerous nutjob. Even though he may be, these days.
Fred, yes, I understand you perceive Obama and pretty much the entire Democratic Party as fellow travelers if not pro-bin Laden Stalinists.
Community organizing is an inherently Communistic enterprise. For people like Fred, voting comes through the speaker of a radio, where he is told for whom and for what to vote for, dictating specifically by the instructions given to him by the party. The idea of organizing on a local level to get the government to help you, rather than using the government to whip up hostilities against the poor is anathema to him. The man lives in fear that the very people he hates and speaks out against to anyone who listen might end up showing up to the polls, and that's why Obama bothers him so much, and that's why he's hostile to the prospect of community organizing. Similar justifications were raised to defend Jim Crow, and Fred is just the inheritor of that mantle, red-baiting Obama just as they red-baited the Freedom Riders. None of Fred's behavior should be considered surprising.
Guys, no candidate faced a more hostile media environment that Al Gore, and he still won the popular vote.
Before the NPC event, Obama made some statement conceding that Wright was a legit question. I really think he isn't, but there is some wisdom in Obama's decision: this means that Hagee is fair game in the general. Every clip of Wright same something merely stupid can now be countered with Hagee saying something truly vile (e.g. "Whore of Babylon") and McCain gratefully accepting his endorsement. I think Hagee will alienate more voters.
This is the most depressing spectacle I've encountered. I'm a republican, but it's just terrible to see a guy like Obama work as hard as he has worked get screwed over like this. Someone who seems like a decent guy; in fact, too decent given how he tried to treat Wright with respect in the Philadelphia speech. The Clintons would have cut and run from a political liability like Wright 18 months ago. Obama goes out of his way to try and show the man respect; and in response Wright can do nothing but create an endless slew of problems for Obama. I may like the political repercussions, but it is painful to watch.
I hardly think it's Wright's obligation to just sit back and take all the shit that's been dumped on his head -- some fairly, most egregiously unfairly -- without defending himself. If that redounds to Obama's detriment, that's Obama's tough luck (and ours) that we live in a country with 5-year olds for a press corps.
After reading most of the comments here and watching the hyperventalating "news" coverage over the past day I've come to the conclusion that Rev. Wright was correct from the start. God Damn America, indeed.
God Damn the self absorbed assholes who think that any critique of this country is un American.
God Damn those who believe that Obama the presidential candidate is under the dangerous sway of another man's opinions.
God Damn the implicit belief that Barack Obama must be incapable of thinking for himself.
God Damn the gutless "liberals" who don't have the critical thinking skills to listen to the entirety of Rev. Wright's comments and respond to his actual words instead of trumped up mischaracterizations.
God Damn anyone who honestly thinks that America's history of imperial meddling in other parts of the world didn't lead to the horrible crime of 9/11.
God Damn anyone who thinks that last sentence means I think America deserved to be attacked.
God Damn everyone who thinks that what Rev. Wright meant in his original sermon is that America deserved to be attacked.
God Damn everyone who says that Obama's judgement is flawed because he listened to Rev. Wright's religious sermons for 20 years without walking out in disgust.
God Damn every American who can't fathom that a pastor's job is to make people uncomfortable so that they can see how short we all come to living a divinely inspired life.
God Damn every "liberal" who instead of standing up for free speech has conceded this argument to the right wing smear machine.
And God Damn anyone who thinks that these events somehow prove that John McCain would make a better president.
drjim
self-righteous much?
Yes. This media shit show and the concurrent hand wringing has me a little peeved, couldn't you tell?
No asshole, he's simply righteous. Something that supporters of criminals (i.e. Republicans like you) wouldn't understand.
Is the Republican-owned Media trying to Sabotage Barack Obama? Why else would they give a "retired" Rev. Wright all that Air time by blocking out all three Cable News Channels to air Rev. Wright's 45 minute speech at the National Press Club, LIKE HE IS THE PRESIDENT OR SOMEONE, something they do not even do for the Candidates themselves, John McCain, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, block out 45 minutes of air time to air their stump speeches!
Are Repbublicans trying to help Hillary win the Democratic nominee? Are they hopeing to win the White House with the help of African-Americans turned off by the Clintons' "kitchen sink strategy" directed at Barack Obama? Is that why McCain is so actively wooing them? These things have to be considered?
Is the Republican-owned Media trying to Sabotage Barack Obama? Why else would they give a "retired" Rev. Wright all that Air time by blocking out all three Cable News Channels to air Rev. Wright's 45 minute speech at the National Press Club, LIKE HE IS THE PRESIDENT OR SOMEONE, something they do not even do for the Candidates themselves, John McCain, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, block out 45 minutes of air time to air their stump speeches!
Are Repbublicans trying to help Hillary win the Democratic nominee? Are they hopeing to win the White House with the help of African-Americans turned off by the Clintons' "kitchen sink strategy" directed at Barack Obama? Is that why McCain is so actively wooing them? These things have to be considered?
God Damn anyone who thought this election would turn out to be different from any other American presidential election in recent memory.
Maybe Bill Cosby (whom I'm assuming is for Obama) can come out and say something that makes clear that Obama's values are separate and distinct from the Rev's.
Something like "This fool (Wright) does not speak for him. The man's worked hard all his life to establish himself as a leader and now he's getting blamed because this other man (Wright)is nuttier than a fruitcake."
Cosby has credibility with Middle America and somebody in the Obama campaign ought to give him a call. Because the longer it (the Rev. Wright tour) goes on...the worse it will get. Michelle Obama's clueless utterances have been bad enough, but this shit will finish him unless someone puts a cork in it fast.
Dr. Jim,
Well said. Please post your comment everywhere on the web that you can. Far too few progressives are making these points, and no one is doing it so well.
The most depressing thing about this whole "scandal" is the way so many progressive voices which I hold in great esteem have dealt with the Wright issue predominately within Fox-News' frames. If we really want to move politics back towards the left, then we shouldn't be so quick to silence left-wing voices. Especially the voices of liberal leaders who have uncommon courage and ideas and who have spent the past several weeks remaining silent in the face of reported death threats and church-bombing threats.
Matt, this post has got to be the most wrongheaded one I've ever seen from you.
BTW JohnB. I thought your comment at 8:57 was quite respectful. Although I disagree that Rev. Wright should be an issue at all, the fact that the media has caused him to be one is incredibly unfair. You pointed that out respectfully even though you admitted that in terms of the political implications, it could help your side. Most of the Republicans on this site would have swooped in with a drive-by gloating.
i think the problem goes a lot deeper. ill quote the politico from this morning:
"whereas obama once seemed an almost cultlike figure who transcended race and class, the narrative that has emerged from his campaign's recent trials has given republicans hope that the illinois senator can be tagged as an elitist with the same efectiveness with which michael dukakis and john f kerry were so labeled."
i'm a proponent of matt's argument that one of the starkest differences between barack and hillary was the effect the nominee would have on down-ticket races. while it's still undoubtable that there's a larger swath of down-ballot, anti-hillary voters than anti-obama voters, the wright effect is doing considerable harm to the prospects of gaining a stronger majority in the senate-- which would be basically the only obstacle to progressive policy in a hillary or obama administration!
And God Damn a discourse where, when someone raises a dozen eminently valid objections to the status quo, he's met with the incredibly lame rejoinder, "Self-righteous much?"
Matt B, my point exactly....Hagee et al have their crowd, and that crowd is/has been important to the Republican party. Still Hagee is far more of a liability. Quote him, quote McCain accepting Hagee's endorsement.
But don't stop talking about Iraq, about the economy, about the declining reputation of the US in the world, about education, about road and bridges and all that other good stuff as well.
Its April. Both the world series and the election are months away.
I’d say it’s safe to say that Wright is a bona fide racist, but that would miss the real point. Don’t send your time thinking racist, when you should be thinking huckster.
You have to realize that pastors of black churches often think of their congregants in a niggardly or “less than” terms, its part of the huckster role that demands “no noise” or “paper-only” in the basket. Meanwhile in order to maintain the “cash cow,” they preach a doctrine that keeps blacks from moving to a better place, with ideas like the anti-middleclassness, until he eventually retires to a 10,000 sq ft mansion in a gated community of more than 90% white neighbors. His form of racism is a tool of a black pastor to keep blacks down using whites to triangulate while he plays a Moses who has no intention of getting them to the promise land.
When you finally realize that Obama’s 20 year apprentice in hucksterism at Trinity Church was to gain “street cred” and train his skills at manipulating, starting with the black community, it becomes clear why he spend 20 years there becoming a modern day carpetbagger. The only real major difference between Wright and Obama is that Wright thinks within the confines of a pastor, while Obama is trying to expand to a whole country.
But the current discussion seems to poise Rev. Wright for a eventual "Sister Soulja" moment for Obama, when the entire huckster discussion is lost with the fallen racist.
"Niggardly"?
"No asshole, he's simply righteous. Something that supporters of criminals (i.e. Republicans like you) wouldn't understand."
I guess not. There apparently are two types of people in the world. Good people and bad people; conveniently they are easy to distinguish because they identify themselves by the labels Democrat or Republican.
"Fred, yes, I understand you perceive Obama and pretty much the entire Democratic Party as fellow travelers if not pro-bin Laden Stalinists."
El Cid,
How on earth could that be your take from reading my last comment? Try reading it slower this time; sound out the words if you need to:
You are eliding the salient point: the differences between the two major parties (e.g., between an Olympia Snowe and an Evan Bayh) aren't as big as the distance between Obama's Alinsky-Wright leftist ideology and the political center. Wright is relevant here because, again, Obama chose him as to be his mentor and spiritual leader and nodded along for 20 years.
I guess not. There apparently are two types of people in the world. Good people and bad people; conveniently they are easy to distinguish because they identify themselves by the labels Democrat or Republican.
Oh, NOW who's being self-righteous.
God bless drjimcooper!
I don't know how anyone thought a Democrat was going to get away with having a loudmouth, impolitic preacher. Especially a black one. I'm sorry I'm even saying this, but I knew about this ages ago and never so much as considered supporting Obama because of it.
Unfortunately, Clinton's dead in the water, too. At this point, I'm not sure who'll lose worse. I guess I should add: I supported Dodd, Biden, and Edwards. White guys all. This country is not ready for even symbolic change. I'm sorry, guys. There's still a chance I'm wrong about this, though. Believe me when I say I want nothing more than to be wrong.
Fred: I read your comments. I understand that you and many other lunatics believe Barack Obama to be a leftist. (This is to elide Hillary's own mentions of Saul Alinsky.) I am a leftist. Barack Obama is not a leftist. A "leftist" is not whatever right wingers want to say, even though they have been doing so for over a century.
You are free to declare it a million times in a row and claim that the all-correct and knowing political "center" knows it to. I do not care. It is not one whit more of an argument than the first time you spouted this nonsense.
"I’d say it’s safe to say that Wright is a bona fide racist, but that would miss the real point. Don’t send your time thinking racist, when you should be thinking huckster."
This is the sort of racist condescension that makes Wright shout louder. Wright isn't a huckster -- he actually believes what he's been preaching. He is a radical leftist, an adherent of Black Liberation Theology. And to suggest that he is a hypocrite because he lives in a nice house and drives a Porsche is to parade your ignorance of mega churches (black or white): preachers aren't expected to take a vow of poverty, and they are not resented for living affluently.
On Monday, Wright also espoused the racialist doctrine that blacks have "different" learning styles than do others. This doctrine of racially different brains, or of an unalterably different black culture, is a doctrine today used to justify various soft bigotries of low expectations regarding blacks, and especially black children. It has a long pedigree as a rationalization for injustices. Slaveholders and, later, segregationists loved it.
Obama should be questioned about whether he agrees about "different" learning styles.
That was the new part that popped out at me. Wright saying that black children and young adults are incapable of learning the way Asians or white races are taught. They need a completely separate teaching mode where "they are taught by verbal story-telling" vs. visually by abstract math, other objects or by written words.
If blacks are incapable of learning the way others do, then the conclusion appears to be that blacks should be taught separately to give them what Wright thinks is necessary for success. Or perhaps he means that civil rights demands that classrooms and employee training (and by extension, jobs) remain integrated, but that learning time be doubled so that other races are taught traditionally, then sit around learning nothing while a black teacher is brought in to teach blacks arithmetic with long verbal stories they can relate to.
And vice-versa as blacks sit - hopefully non-disruptively - while all the useless white and Asian teaching happens...
Of course Wright hasn't really seen the signs all around him that his theory is garbage. That de facto (100% black) segregated classrooms taught by 100% black teachers in Chicago and elsewhere produce the lowest quality students in the country, story-telling or not.
********************
For a sign that worshipful Black Messiah acolytes are losing it, refer to this Braniac's post excusing Obama and Wright:
Posted by drjimcooper | April 29, 2008 9:02 AM
Truth is that Wright appears to think he was used. A preppie elitist raised by whites with political ambitions is brought to him to be groomed into an "Authentic Negro" like thousands and thousands of lesser blacks on the South Side. For 20 years, Wright helps Obama - spiritually and politically, even gets some credit as the "mentor".
Then when Professor Obama becomes Far Bigger than the rabble in Chicago, Rev Wright finds himself dumped as an embarassment, and worse, hears Obama claiming that for 20 years he really didn't concentrate too much on what the Reverend was preaching, or take it seriously..Sort of like:
"That is how the native life in black city neighborhoods behaves, and I need the native's vote...and for all I know from my Hawaiian and other elite upbringing ...Wright is just a typical inner city black preacher, saying colorful things he doesn't mean. Like Bobby Rush is typical, the Jewish billionaires bankrolling me, Ayers, and U of Chicago staff are typical."
And to suggest that he is a hypocrite because he lives in a nice house and drives a Porsche is to parade your ignorance of mega churches (black or white): preachers aren't expected to take a vow of poverty, and they are not resented for living affluently.
Posted by Fred
Fair enough. One can advocate for the interests of the non-rich while being rich.
Oh, except, of course, when a progressive Democratic candidate got rich from his attorney practice ("one a them trile lawyuhs") and has a big house and gets a $400 haircut. Then it's a nationwide demonstration of that vile leftist Democrap limousine liberal hypocrisy.
Chris Ford makes a good point.
Not any of the ones he wrote, but it did prompt me to recall that whatever becomes of the Rev Wright issue, and whether in the long run it really affects an Obama / Democratic candidacy, at least folks like Chris Ford and Steve Sailer can for a moment at least feel really, really satisfied that their concerns were heard.
My impression is that most people discussing Wright are irreligious or occasionally attend churches that, at the end of the day, are more self-affirming experiences than challenging religious experiences.
The reason pastors say stuff that wouldn't be acceptable for a politician is because they're not running for office. Their job is to kick their congregants in the pants and jolt them out of their comfortable lives, not reinforce the status quo and institutions of power. It's a testimony to the degree that Republicans have co-opted evangelical churches that the churches feel that their job is to serve as cheerleaders for the Republican party and US policy.
Chris Ford,
See Steve Sailer's post on that part of Wright's speech, Reverend Wright on Black-White Cognitive Differences.
According to Politico, Wright was invited to speak at the National Press at the behest of a Clinton supporter who is good friends with him and was pissed at Obama for his handling of the Wright matter.
The whole thing doesn't reflect well on Obama. Obama is an excellent stategist when it comes to organizing but the Clintons have shown him to be a rookie when it comes to fighting with your back against the wall. For the past few months we seen him and his campaign make unforced errors such as monstergate, bittergate, etc. Now granted some these have been manufactured but Obama needs to be on his guard. He seem to think that because he is likable and charming he can let this go. He needs to dump Wright and pivot from it.
According to Politico, Wright was invited to speak at the National Press at the behest of a Clinton supporter who is good friends with him and was pissed at Obama for handling the Wright matter.
The whole thing doesn't reflect well on Obama. Obama is an excellent stategist when it comes to organizing but the Clintons have shown him to be a rookie when it comes to fighting with your back against the wall. For the past few months we seen him and his campaign make unforced errors such as monstergate, bittergate, etc. Now granted some these have been manufactured but Obama needs to be on his guard. He seem to think that because he is likable and charming he can let this go. He needs to dump Wright and pivot from it.
"Did any of y'all actually watch the Q&A, or are you just relying on the Post's gross mischaracterization?"
Posted by Brautigan
Neither. I can't figure out why anyone would pay attention to either.
To me, the concern that Wright raises about Obama has to do with a question of his political competence. I don't understand why he didn't do more to distance and innoculate himself from this problem earlier.
While I do not agree with Steve Sailer's views on most things, I do think Fred is correct that he has been very perceptive about the whole Wright business from the start. When he recently predicted that Wright would not keep shut, I thought: ok, here's a testable prediction. I think Sailer's wrong, because I think Wright will put Obama's aspirations first. It turns out he was right about this too.
On his blog, Sailer speculates that the reason that Obama did not distance himself the way he should have may be do to his domineering wife.
I still support Obama, but I'm starting to think that the Democrats might have a better chance in the fall if Hillary were the frontrunner and Obama were in the VP slot.
This news articles say a Major Hillary Supporter,Barbara Reynolds , set up the Rev Wright Press Conference.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/columnists/louis/index.html
"The Rev. Jeremiah Wright couldn't have done more damage to Barack Obama's campaign if he had tried. And you have to wonder if that's just what one friend of Wright wanted.
Shortly before he rose to deliver his rambling, angry, sarcastic remarks at the National Press Club Monday, Wright sat next to, and chatted with, Barbara Reynolds.
A former editorial board member at USA Today, she runs something called Reynolds News Services and teaches ministry at the Howard University School of Divinity. (She is an ordained minister).
It also turns out that Reynolds - introduced Monday as a member of the National Press Club "who organized" the event - is an enthusiastic Hillary Clinton supporter "
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Ha ha ha
Read'em and weep, Rubes. You should've KNOWN something like this was coming.
Suggestion to Obama: As a Marine, Rev Wright could have told you the first rule of combat: IF you're beating the living shit out of someone, it's kinda hard for them to throw a punch at you. Whereas if you just passively stand there, they will stomp your ass every time.
Best DEFENSE is a shit stomping OFFENSE, man. Guess they don't teach that in Hawaiian Prep Schools. But then look at how little of their islands the native Hawaiians have today.
Time to take off the grass skirt and go hunting for some fucking heads.
This Wright affair is the best thing that could have happened to the Democrats. It raises the specter that neither Senator Obama or Senator Clinton can get sufficient delegates to win the nomination. It encourages the super-delagates who are as yet uncommitted to stand fast. This will lead to a stalemate at the convention and a stampede to Al Gore as the nominee after 2 or three inclusive ballots. Al Gore is the only Democrat who can win in November.
The Q and A was pretty brutal, from the interests of the Obama camp.
There was also a creepy moment when he condesendingly said "capiche?" to the questioner, I'm assuming because he thought she was Italian.
Can we drop the pretense that Wright is a "leftist"?
He's a black nationalist - he's not liberal on gay rights, on immigration, on anything. The difference between Wright and someone like Pat Robertson is just skin color.
The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ.
All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that… I believe that Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.
John Hagee
Any more proof needed that those harping on about Wright are a bunch of racists?
Now I've got no time for preachers who are vainer than actors and politicians, but I imagine 99% of the moaning about Wright comes from people who've heard other people moan about Wright. Wright was very personable and direct in the Q&A, and true to form, he's all but invisible in 99.999% of these comments.
The central fact in this is that the right wing has manufactured a controversy out of nothing. It's virtuoso stuff. They're complete asses, of course. Weak in courage is strong in cunning, pointed out Wm Blake.
You know, Don, you're right. If there was something that initially had me leaning more towards Clinton than Obama, it was that I felt that Clinton had the throat-slitting instincts necessary to be president. I can't help but admire getting Wright to the press club. When I say that Hillary is "vindictive," I mean it as a point in her favor.
I suspect that Obama will have something up his sleeve, though.
"Oh, except, of course, when a progressive Democratic candidate got rich from his attorney practice ("one a them trile lawyuhs") and has a big house and gets a $400 haircut. Then it's a nationwide demonstration of that vile leftist Democrap limousine liberal hypocrisy."
Forget about calling it hypocrisy, let's just call it stupidity: when you run a campaign based on class warfare, and you get $400 haircuts, you are too stupid and politically tone-deaf to get elected president. Inner-city black leaders (including preachers) have different audiences with different expectations. Inner-city blacks like to see their preachers and their politicians do well.
I'm not sure I understand the commenters here talking about Wright's ideology. Even if his political ideas are perfectly defensible, what he did yesterday was personally inexcusable. He staged a media circus to deliberately insult and injure his friend and former parishioner.
Re Tyro's comment "It's a testimony to the degree that Republicans have co-opted evangelical churches that the churches feel that their job is to serve as cheerleaders for the Republican party and US policy."
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That's because Republicans' religion is as fake as is their patriotism and voodoo economics. They basically grab as much as they can for themselves and make up lies to justify it.
No one who's read Jesus's words in the Bible would support Bush's actions in Iraq. I'm kinda short on Christian Charity, so I can't help having a warm feeling from knowing that Rev Hagee and Dick Cheney will be screaming in Hell for all eternity.
Vanya,
Jeffrey Wright is quite liberal about gay rights. He gets a lot of flack for that.
Jim W,
Dayo Olapade at the New Republic had predicted this as well and now he wrote a post that amounts to "I told you so". Here is the link http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/04/28/shot-calling-the-wrightmare.aspx
I was at jack and jill politics, a black blog. One of the commentators who attends Obama's church said that what Wright did was on done on purpose.
Vanya,
Jeffrey Wright is quite liberal about gay rights. He gets a lot of flack for that.
Jim W,
Dayo Olapade at the New Republic had predicted this as well and now he wrote a post that amounts to "I told you so". Here is the link http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/04/28/shot-calling-the-wrightmare.aspx
I was at jack and jill politics, a black blog. One of the commentators who attends Obama's church said that what Wright did was on done on purpose.
Well, if Obama wants to hang him out to dry now no one could really fault him. Wright looked out for his own ass.
I meant Jeremiah not Jeffrey
Dr. Jim-
Word.
The main issue for me is not Wright per se - rather that Obama didn't have the good sense and judgement to distance himself from the Reverend after he became a Senator with designs on the Presidency.
Firstly, what El Cid said...in fact, let me
quote him 'cause its just that apt.
"If my fellow Americans want some stupid sh*t like Wright to tell them important lessons about the candidate's judgment, and to therefore choose someone like McCain that they feel better about, f*** 'em"
That said, a couple of points:
All the people who want to believe that its the
media's mischaracterization of Wright and if people
only reeally heard what the great man has to say...
it reminds me of this SNL parody of Reggie White
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/97/97qupdate.phtml
As for John Hagee, no harm in trying to hang
him around McCain's neck. However, everyone knows
McCain is PANDERING to Hagee and his ilk.
Ditto Clinton inviting Wright to the White
House. Whereas Obama and Wright...it's quite
obvious it's different, isn't it? Obama's reputation for sincerity only hurts here. Of
course, Wright did hint that Obama was insincere
...in denouncing him!!
Also, the righteousness, or otherwise, of Wright's
anger is besides the point. Obama is trying to
get people to vote for him, not play Shaft.
Lastly, "cognitive differences" between black
and white? "Logical and analytical" whites vs
"creative and intuitive" blacks? Obama reeeally
doesn't need this, right now.
The timing of the interview/appearance seems pretty non-coincidental. It's like the Obama campaign begged him to wait till after PA primary was over, not do this a day before a primary, and not do this once the nominee was chosen. This Sunday was really the least damaging day Wright could speak from March to November.
So while the Obama campaign clearly doesn't control Wright, I would doubt they aren't in communication.
I'm with southpaw here.
It's not so much then content of Wright's views (though they are rather goofy); the problem is that he knowingly and deliberately sabotaged the Obama campaign.
He chose the soapbox of notional television over loyalty to his firend.
Heedless: "the problem is that he knowingly and deliberately sabotaged the Obama campaign."
This is preposterous. Two campaigns and the entire political media have been repeatedly attacking the man -- unfairly, no less -- for several weeks. He has been one of the five most talked about persons in the nation over the two months, and almost all of the talk has been negative, and a great deal of the comments have been falsehoods and mischaracterizations. So after weeks of this constant barrage, not only on him but on his church and on his community, he accepts an invitation to speak his mind, and now you attack him for explaining his words and defending his reputation and saying what he thinks about the whole situation? This movement to further silence the guy is really quite sick.
Matthew, McCain has not YET used cheap shots against his dem opponents. its UNFAIR to say he will use this against obambi. sadly, its the dems who are swiftboating each other and McCain. gv me a break.
This Wright thing has had me really sad, but the 80s music reference in the title of this post cheered me up a little. So thanks.
Comments closed May 13, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
A vast Wright wing conspiracy? Fighting the Wright for 35 weeks? The rise of the religious Wright? They Wright themselves, folks.
Posted by El Cid | April 29, 2008 6:45 AM