It seems that Senator Ted Kennedy's recent health woes have been caused by a malignant brain tumor. Sad news for his family and for the country.
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Brain Tumor
20 May 2008 03:53 pm
Comments (104)
Jay Severin[o] is already dancing on Ted's as yet un-dug grave.
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Jay Severin[o] is already dancing on Ted's as yet un-dug grave.
Really? Any quotes?
Man I hate that fucker.
Severin, in case that wasn't clear. Ted Kennedy, on the other hand, was totally in my MySpace top 8 when there was an unofficial page dedicated to him.
Glioblastoma=bad
Left parietal lobe damage can lead to speech/language problems, so it's not a good location for surgery. Although with a glioblastoma, even a "good" location generally results in a bad outcome.
Terrible.
2nd the hate for Jay Severin..
I feel as bad for Kennedy, regarding this awful disease, as I would for any other manslaughterer who beat the rap, and never gave a full account of his behavior.
Yes, yes, I know.....correct politics means never having to say you're sorry for what you actually did.
Ted Kennedy speaking in 1965 on behalf of the
Hart-Celler Act to change the immigration laws:
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"First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same ... Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset ... Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia ... In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think ... The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."
(U.S. Senate, Subcommittee on Immigration and Naturalization of the Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, D.C., Feb. 10, 1965. pp. 1-3.)
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Services_Act_of_1965
Glioblastoma=bad
Left parietal lobe damage can lead to speech/language problems, so it's not a good location for surgery. Although with a glioblastoma, even a "good" location generally results in a bad outcome.
Terrible.
2nd the hate for Jay Severin..
Classy, Will Allen. Very classy... Jackass...
ugh...Will Allen...Karma has now noticed you...
What, no jokes about McCain's age, senility, or hearing?
C'mon. Those are funny.
Don, what are you trying to imply? That law didn't bring the immigrants into the US, it was pure economics.
Yeah, it really shows no class to hold vehicular manslaughter and covering up of same against someone.
What, no jokes about McCain's age, senility, or hearing?
While it would probably be crass to mention it, the health issues of Sens. Kennedy, Specter, and Johnson certainly do highlight in a real way the potential problems arising from having a 70+ year-old in the White House.
Yeah, almost a classy as driving off a bridge with a passenger, then, instead of going to the nearest phone to call for help, returning to the party you were at, consulting with your advisors, then swimmimg back to your motel, and then going to sleep. Then, upon waking up, going back to consult with your advisors, and only calling the police after fisherman have discovered the submerged car registered in your family's name, and a diver has found the body of your passenger, which, in the diver's opinion, was located where an air bubble would have provided oxygen for 30 minutes or more. Then telling such preposterous lies like you, a confirmed alcoholic, weren't drinking at the party, and getting a mere two month suspended sentence for, get this......leaving the scene of an accident.....Very classy....Enabler of manslaughterer.
Especially a 70+ year old with a prior history of cancer.
Let's hope Kennedy hangs on for a few more years and helps ram universal healthcare through the Senate next term.
Hillary notes that this means Obama has one less superdelegate.
My heart goes out to Ted and his family. Brain cancer patients are very difficult to care for. It's obviously very bad for the patient, but it's also extremely distressing for the family. Patients often have extreme emotional disturbances and then can't even remember that they happened. It's important for the family to remember that these outbursts don't usually represent the true feelings of the patient.
Really? Any quotes?
That he's a socialist whom the framers would ahve hated, who's done sever damage to the country.
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Wow ol' Ted really brings out the classiest trolls.
He wasn't perfect, but do you really have to pile on a man who just got a terminal cancer diagnosis?
Keep it classy guys, thanks!!
It should be noted that Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania was operated on for a brain tumor in 1993 -- again in 1996 and recovered. Although he currently appears to have Hodgkin's disease.
"Let's hope Kennedy hangs on for a few more years and helps ram universal healthcare through the Senate next term."
If it's an inoperable glioblastoma he'll be fortunate to see the next president inaugurated. With this condition you generally are considered lucky to make it past six months.
Yeah, almost a classy as driving off a bridge with a passenger, then ...
Wait, I thought you said he didn't give a full account of his actions. Are you confused?
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Will Allen is an apologist for the criminal Bush administration that is directly responsible for the combat deaths of 4000 US troops and untold innocent Iraqi lives. In Will Allen's twisted skull, Senator Kennedy's alleged wrong doing 40 years ago is an excuse to viciously smear a man diagnosed with a potentially fatal disease, while ongoing criminal conduct by George Bush should be supported and celebrated.
If Will Allen possessed the smallest shred of human decency, he would have kept his fucking mouth shut. Instead, Will Allen chooses to spew his vitriol for everyone to see, proving that he is a putrid scumbag. In conclusion, Will Allen deserves to die a slow, painful death that would make him wish he had cancer. Will Allen, in other words, is a despicable piece of subhuman garbage.
I don't about Will Allen, but I'll have even worse things to say about George W. Bush if he's diagnosed with fatal brain cancer. Am I forgiven?
Here's how I see it: the way Ted Kennedy has conducted his life, as far as we know (and we know a lot) seems to indicate that he's not really someone I would respect or like very much, if he were a school principal or a gas station owner or something. To accept that he's an admirable human being, you have to accept that being a U.S. Senator is some wonderfully admirable occupation. I don't accept that at all. Therefore, not a lot of love for Ted Kennedy.
Well if we are in the muck:
Will Allen everyone on this board wishes cancer onto you and your family...especially your family.
Sorry bud. Like I said Karma is a bitch.
Cooper, reproduce one statement I've written as an apology for the Bush Administration. You're a liar, just like you're a liar when you assert I've smeared Kennedy.
Texan, your brain apparently functions in a way that you are unable to discern the difference between "account" and "full account".
ResumeMan, why is giving an accurate account of a crime and it's cover up "piling on", especially when the man never gave a full account of his behavior?
Glioblastoma=bad
Right, but they haven't yet classified it as a glioblastoma. Hopefully, there will be as good of news as possible in this bad news, and it will be an astrocytoma, which increases the likelihood of his survival for a few more years.
Will Allen everyone on this board wishes cancer onto you and your family...especially your family.
What a horrible thing to say.
It would be far more appropriate to wish that a female member of his family will drown in the dark while waiting for rescue that never came.
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Too Many Steves, I agree completely, and would have no problem with someone mentioning the deaths in Iraq if George W. Bush were so diagnosed.
Bonzo, given I've never wished any disease upon Kennedy, what in the world is your point?
Texan, your brain apparently functions in a way that you are unable to discern the difference between "account" and "full account".
No I understand. Your account is your own, and it's overdrawn.
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It's almost certainly glioblastoma multiforme. They called it a "malignant glioma" and that's pretty much the only thing you'll see in his demographic.
It's pretty much as bad as it gets. If he makes it a year, that'd be a pretty good outcome.
Sad.
It's almost certainly glioblastoma multiforme. They called it a "malignant glioma" and that's pretty much the only thing you'll see in his demographic.
It's pretty much as bad as it gets. If he makes it a year, that'd be a pretty good outcome.
Sad.
This is not good news for Obama passing his health care legislation, since Kennedy is chair of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee, and brought a lot of skill at maneuvering the legislative morass.
Next in seniority on the HELP Committee is Chris Dodd, who currently chairs Banking. Below him is Tom Harkin, who chairs Agriculture. If Dodd trades chairs, then Tim Johnson or Jack Reed will head up Banking. If Harkin trades chairs, then Kent Conrad likely becomes the new Ag chairman. If they both choose to keep their current positions, then Barbara Mikulski, who does not currently chair any committees, would become the new HELP chair.
The good news is that none of these three are members of the Wanker Caucus. Both Dodd and Harkin have had experience shepherding major legislation through the Senate (Dodd: Family and Medical Leave Act, 1992/1993; Harkin: Farm Bill, 2002/2008). I'm not sure about Mikulski, who perpetually places in the top three "Meanest Senators" in The Washingtonian magazine's "Best and Worst of Congress" survey.
But still, having Kennedy manage it would have been best. Shit.
Texan, feel free to indicate where I've been inaccurate.
Though I actually agree with Will Allen here, I think his last comment demands a Lebowski response: "You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole."
Texan, feel free to indicate where I've been inaccurate.
Inaccurate according to what source? The man's guilty, right? I mean, there must be enough to convict him. Right?
No, I was hoping you could tell me all about Vince Foster's murder next.
Pretty please?
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Wow. Now I feel kind of bad for sidetracking this, but is Grand Moff Texan really comparing the "theory" that Vince Foster was murdered to the "theory" that Ted Kennedy drove his car off a bridge, killing Mary Jo Kopechne, and then didn't report it? That's kind of crazy, isn't it?
Yeah, people in thread wish disease to me or death by drowning to my family members, and I'm the asshole for pointing out that Kennedy killed somebody and covered up his behavior. Correct politics uber alles!
No, tms, I'm comparing one set of wingnut talking points to another. It's not like they give a shit about Mary Jo Kopechne (she was fucking a Democrat, wasn't she?) or Vince Foster (he worked for Democrats, didn't he?).
It's just the poo they fling.
If Teddy really is guilty of manslaughter, then let's get serious about it. If not, stuff it.
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I'm the asshole for pointing out that Kennedy killed somebody and covered up his behavior.
And now it's murder, not manslaughter! Would you make up your tiny mind?
tms was wrong about you. You're not an asshole, you're just incapable.
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Cooper, reproduce one statement I've written as an apology for the Bush Administration.
Try this on for size Will:
"People considered to be our greatest Presidents have usually not been honest with the electorate in matters pertaining to war."
This is you defending Bush knowingly lying to the public with regards to conditions in Iraq throughout 2006. This is the first example I found, and I had to go back only to April 16th of this year. You are scum, let's just admit it and move on.
Texan, you're just nuts.
Say, if Matthew was an NFL fan instead of an NBA fan, and O.J. Simpson received a similar diagnosis, d'ya' 'spose he'd post about the terrible news regarding the cancer, without mention of the minor unpleasantness involving a waiter and Simpson's ex-wife? After all, Simpson was acquitted!
Ted has lived a long and full life with many burdens. Alot of his burdens were the result of his own actions, some not.
He's drank more booze, banged more women, and eaten more surf and turf than 99% of the people on this planet. Ted never had to perform manual labor or know what it's like to have a loan past due without the funds to pay it. It's hard to feel sorry for him.
Jesus Christ Matt, close the comments already, this is disgusting.
Though he's facing extremely adverse odds, I hope Senator Kennedy pulls through.
I'm very saddened by this. My heart goes out to his family. I especially like the endorsement of Will Allen: "Kennedy has done so little wrong that I must go back 40 years to find fault". Seriously, wtf?
Some guy gets cancer, and you bring up a 40 year old crime? You don't feel any compassion because (in your lovely world) he committed manslaughter? I guess that makes him not human. Couldn't you have the decency to not bring that up for one freaking time? Oh, no, it's Kennedy! He's a monster! I must point that out! He killed one person!
Shame shame shame on you.
The main reason it's hard to feel sorry for Ted isn't the booze or the women or the surf n turf. Any of us might have indulged the same way. The reason it's hard to feel sorry for Ted is because he considers himself above us. He played the "Do you know who I am?" card. Anyone not named "Ted Kennedy" would have suffered major repercussions for his actions (maybe including prison, but at least including an unpleasant police investigation and probable loss of a job). He did not, because he's Ted Kennedy.
Oh, and Texan: if you kill somebody, but you didn't intend to, that's manslaughter, not murder. Murder would be if he drove off the bridge and killed her on purpose. Since he killed her by accident, it's manslaughter.
Texan, you're just nuts.
What a great way to introduce an extended supposition contrary to fact fallacy, wrapped in a complex question!
I'm really looking foward to the prosecution of Ted Kennedy for manslaughter/murder/[watch this space]. Pop-fucking-corn.
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Yeah, people in thread wish disease to me or death by drowning to my family members, and I'm the asshole for pointing out that Kennedy killed somebody and covered up his behavior. Correct politics uber alles!
Yes, Will Allen, you are the asshole for not having the common fucking decency to not bring this up in a thread about a fatal diagnosis.
If Ted Kennedy were the maintenance supervisor at your local sewage district, and he died of brain cancer, your little local paper might write an obituary, because 30 years ago, he was the guy that drove that local girl off a bridge. The obit would note the other things about his life, but it would certainly mention that little incident. It would stick with him for life. I don't think Ted Kennedy deserves better just because he's Ted Kennedy.
Some guy gets cancer, and you bring up a 40 year old crime? You don't feel any compassion because (in your lovely world) he committed manslaughter? I guess that makes him not human.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this, BethanyAnne, but Ted Kennedy was a Democrat. That's why Will Allen is doing this.
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It's like hitting a knee with a mallet, or booing Haman on Purim: you mention "Kennedy" and some people can't help themselves.
too many steves,
None of us deserve more than compassion and a just accounting of our lives. But we do not deserve worse, either. What he is getting is worse.
I will also agree that it matters not a whit to me how much booze Kennedy drank or women he had sex with. I do care about completely reckless disregard while operating a car resulting in an innocent person's death, due both to the driving and the behavior after the accident. I do care about people using extraordinary priviledge to avoid consequences. Finally, forgiveness and compassion are wonderful things. The first step to forgiveness is a complete and frank admission regarding the wrongful behavior, with no attempt to soften the reality of the behavior. Of course, if Kennedy had done that, his career would have even been more greatly harmed, or even ended, and career protection was the primary goal, as soon as the sedan left the bridge.
Texan, saying that a person who compares Kopechne and Foster is just plain nuts is a sensible as saying so about someone who pushes a shopping cart through town, while muttering to himself.
Texan, show me where I've ever defended a Republican who engaged in similar behavior, or attacked someone for writing similar things about a Republican.
I do care about completely reckless disregard while operating a car resulting in an innocent person's death
Yet George Bush's reckless push for war with Iraq, which resulted in the deaths of 4000 US combat troops and untold innocent Iraqi civilians, is just fine by you. Will Allen, you are a monster. You're embarassing yourself. Stop digging the hole. And move on.
Bethany, it's not in anyone's "lovely world" that Ted committed manslaughter...it happened in this world. And he neglected to own up to it every day after that for 40 years. There is nothing wrong with bringing up the past with public figures, alive, dead, or dying. All the facts that pertain to his life are fair game, particularly if he's going to continue to help run the country for a few more years. I'd also add that he does deserve sympathy not just for the cancer, but for his family history. Despite being rich, he's lost a number of siblings and other family. Money doesn't help that.
He's drank more booze, banged more women, and eaten more surf and turf than 99% of the people on this planet. Ted never had to perform manual labor or know what it's like to have a loan past due without the funds to pay it.
And yet, unlike most people born with his privileges, Senator Kennedy has not spent his life running a large company and profiting off the manual labor of others, nor has his life been a mere blur of boats, booze, and babes. He's spent a large amount of it in government offices and conference rooms advocating for poor and middle class Americans. He's authored and helped to pass hundreds of bills that seek to improve health care, veteran services, and education. He's been a forceful advocate for sane and cautious foreign and economic policies. He's also experienced living under the withering eyes of public critics since he was young man, and he's also had to cope with the cold-blooded murder of both of his brothers, and, more recently, the untimely deaths of two of his nephews.
I believe he profoundly regrets drunkenly leaving the scene of an accident where his drunk driving took a woman's life. His actions were selfish and he avoided full legal punishment for his actions due to his name and connections.
He's a flawed man. But I think he has demonstrated many times his deeply-ingrained (and unapologetically Catholic) sense of compassion and forgiveness. Despite the undue hatred that so many of his opponents have for him, he has remained a warm and good-natured figure who has won over countless enemies with his class and obvious dedication to his job.
Today he faces a deadly disease that will likely kill him. I see this as the time to wish him well and show him the sort of compassion he has shown for so many of his fellow Americans. If you want to revisit Chappaquiddick and tell us the hundreds of things that are wrong with Ted Kennedy, I think you could wait for another day, not this one.
Thank you Philly for speaking so eloquently on behalf of Senator Kennedy. I apologize if (more likely THAT) my vitriolic comments directed at Will Allen have distracted attention from your fundamental point: flawed as any single person may be, it is innapropriate to wish that person harm on the day of such a serious medical diagnosis. Thanks again for your graciousness.
John,
I did not rail against Reagan on the day that his Alzheimer's made the blogs, or the day of his funeral, out of respect. I did not think that those days were appropriate for that, and I think that those who did were out of line. I think the same reasoning and boundaries should apply here.
Bethany
Let me second that appreciation, Philly.
Allow me to join the condemnation of Will Allen. I actually quite agree with him about the outrage that was Chappaquiddick (although it is actually not accurate to claim that he didn't pay a price for his behavior, as it's basically one of the big reasons he was never nominated for President).
But come on. Today, it was announced that he had a brain tumor! Can't we pick a different day to discuss Chappaquiddick and just wish him the best of health? Heck, K-Lo can do it:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjgyOGUyNWRlNTAzYmFhMmQxNDljN2Q2MzQ2MzdjNDI=
The saddest thing about a Ted Kennedy death is the major blow it's going to deal to the vibrant world of conservative humor. Oh well, at least Michael Moore is still fat.
I also call on all good regular commenters here to ostracize Will Allen and brand too many steves with a much deserved wanker stamp.
Ohmygod, I've always wanted one of those! Who do I thank first?
The saddest thing about a Ted Kennedy death is the major blow it's going to deal to the vibrant world of conservative humor.
Yes! 40 years later and it's still as hilarious as ever to these people. It's not like Democrats don't occasionally get involved in scandals fit for mockery. Is it just the incredible dearth of creativity inherent in conservatives? Juvenile sense of humor? Sticking with the classics?
can the fucktards circle jerking together with their really pathetic hate posts, please go back to Redneckstate.com?
A guy is diaginosed with a terminal brain tumor and you guys get a hard on.
Sick fucks, look in the mirror and think what your mother would say.... Oh but wait, your mothers are sucking cock in hell.
Bethany - we as a society are always discussing public figures' pasts at the time of their deaths. Obituaries are supposed to be respectful but accurate portrayals of their lives. And we aren't railing on Ted - we're re-stating some of the negative aspects of his behavior.
Cooper, I see you are dishonest as always, in implying that I wished ill upon Kennedy. I did not. I said I feel as bad for him having this terrible disease as I would anyone who recklessly killed someone via wanton, selfish, misbehavior and then covered up his misbehavior to avoid the consequences. The two statements are not the same, and if you had a working neuron within your skull, or one iota of honesty, you would not have posted what you did. By the way, a statement of fact regarding nearly every President's dishonesty in matters pertaining to war is not an apology for Bush, but merely an accurate portrayal of history. Can you post one paragraph which does not contain a lie?
Dilan, I never wrote that Kennedy paid no price. I said he covered up his behavior and thus avoided the full consequences of his misdeeds, and that he "beat the rap", meaning that his overwhelmingly likely felonious behavior, in excess of the leaving the scene of the accident charge, was never pursued. That you would consider losing one's highest career ambition to be a nontrivial price for the killing of a woman via wanton disregard is somewhat grostesque. Poor, poor Kennedy....he only got to serve many decades in the Senate!
Philly, a man who deeply regrest his behavior makes no attempt to minimize it or is in any way dishonest about it. People who are dishonest about their behavior are not truly remorseful about the harm they have caused others, because true remorse entails a frank acknowledgement of the misdeed. Kennedy has never indicated true remorse.
Eric, I realize that Ms. Kopechne was such a trivial human being to you that mentioning her life likely being cut short by decades, due to Senator Kennedy's wanton disregard for her value as human being, compared to the value he placed on his career, that you find it offensive to mention her on the day Kennedy was diagnosed with a terrible disease. Congratulations.
By the way, I took no issue with those who mentioned the aspects of Reagan's behavior they found offensive, when it was announced that he had Alzheimer's. People who seek or sought to wield great power over others should always have their offensive behavior be a front burner topic. The diaper jokes were stupid, just as it would be stupid to joke about the symptoms that Kennedy is likely to endure.
One more dead politician (eventually) - makes my day.
That you would consider losing one's highest career ambition to be a nontrivial price for the killing of a woman via wanton disregard is somewhat grostesque.
Will:
1. It isn't what should have happened (he should have gone to jail), but considering how great an ambition to the Presidency that this man in particular (given what happened to his two brothers) must have had, I do think the price he paid is far from trivial.
2. Nonetheless, you are dead wrong about discussing Chappaquiddick on this day. In addition to K-Lo, take a look at The Campaign Spot:
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODJmODkyY2RmN2Q2ZjA1YzQyZDIyYjM4MDc3N2ViZGU=
And take look at Little Green Footballs:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30024_Breaking-_Ted_Kennedy_Diagnosed_with_Brain_Tumor
I mean, really. Kennedy's most vehement political enemies have the class to simply wish him well and leave the discussions of the man's fault for another day. This isn't some sort of censorship-- it's a recognition of our common humanity and mortality.
You should seriously rethink your position on this.
Dilan, you should seriously rethink your view of Ms. Kopechne as being so trivial as to not be worthy of mention on the day when her unrepentant killer is in the news for having been diagnosed with a terrible disease. I'll be happy to to ignore Senator Kennedy's terrible deed when Senator Kennedy has the common decency to display real remorse. Say, do you suppose that if O.J. Simpson was diagnosed with cancer, news outlets would only mention his sterling football career?
Believe it or not, everything isn't about politics. When a person is wrongly killed, it matters every single day afterwords, and it is never a bad time to mention that wrongful death, especially when the person who caused the wrongful death has lacked the common decency to frankly acknowledge his wrongdoing.
I think a man's ambition, when compared to a person's life, is extraordinarily trivial. You can manage your ambition.
Dilan, you should seriously rethink your view of Ms. Kopechne as being so trivial as to not be worthy of mention on the day when her unrepentant killer is in the news for having been diagnosed with a terrible disease. I'll be happy to to ignore Senator Kennedy's terrible deed when Senator Kennedy has the common decency to display real remorse. Say, do you suppose that if O.J. Simpson was diagnosed with cancer, news outlets would only mention his sterling football career?
Well, your real problem here is that Ted Kennedy isn't OJ Simpson. You want him to be, but he isn't. Ted Kennedy is an enormously talented politician who accidentally killed someone and should have faced something in the order of a 3 year jail sentence. OJ is a football player who intentionally killed 2 people in cold blood, and should have gone to prison for life (or, some would argue, should have been executed). There's less on the positive side of the ledger and more on the negative with respect to OJ.
You want a major, successful politician who has grave faults but who has also put in huge amounts of work on behalf of the dispossessed in this country to be equated with a football player who got away with double murder.
Look, all I can say is the rest of the right wing seems to have its bearings on this one. You've lost yours. You should learn to stop when everyone across the political spectrum thinks you look like a monster (including people who agree with your position on the merits of Chappaquiddick).
Look, all I can say is that your bearings are so out of whack that you think Ms. Kopechne's life and wrongful death are so trivial that one would have to be a monster to mention her on the day that her unrepentant killer (which is where the comparison with Simpson is apt) is diagnosed with cancer. What has caused you to view this woman's wrongful death as being so entirely trivial?
Also, given I vote Republican fewer than 50% of the time, when did I become part of the "right wing"? In any case, what causes you to view every aspect of human behavior throught the prism of political factions?
Will:
Her death is not trivial. It will be prominently mentioned in the obituaries when Sen. Kennedy dies. And despite what you say, a scandal that keeps a popular Senator and brother of a former President and a former Senator and attorney general who was assassinated on his way to becoming President is a pretty serious scandal. Nobody has forgotton Chappaquiddick.
The point is, you insist on mentioning it repeatedly on the day when it was announced that Sen. Kennedy had a brain tumor. And when called on it, you dig in, offering vacuous justifications and a clearly inapt comparison with OJ Simpson.
Here's one more set of Kennedy's political opponents doing the classy thing:
http://www.redstate.com/stories/congress/on_senator_kennedy
You are alone, Will. Nobody else agrees with you. You are outside the scope of civilized discourse on this one. Reflect on what you did, and realize that a decent pause before bringing up Chappaquiddick-- which we all were familiar with anyway-- is a perfectly tasteful and proper thing to do in this situation.
It's trivial to you, Dilan, in that you think it monstrous to mention an unrepentant killer inflicting a wrongful death upon an innocent woman on the day the unrepentant killer is diagnosed with cancer, largely because you greatly favor the unrepentant killer's political behavior in the years that followed. That you would call others' behavior outside the boundaries of civilized discourse is rich with irony. Our political culture is so outside the boundaries of civilized discourse it can barely be described, and the fact that a man can wrongly kill a woman, never express remorse for it, and it is considered in bad taste to mention the innocent victim on the day the unrepentant killer is diagnosed with cancer, largely because the killer has held a powerful position, and even those that don't agree with his politics have found him to be agreeable person to cut deals with, pretty much says it all.
Look, you believe a lifetime of correct politics means that wrongly killing a person, and never expressing remorse for it, can be overlooked on certain days. This is your conception of justice, and the fact that you would have the nerve to discuss the quality known as decency is simply laughable.
Sorry Will.
I just read your comments. You are wrong. Your leaps in logic and inability to grasp grace and class on the announcement day of someone's diagnosis of cancer is sad.
You lack the fundamental mores of human decency. You are alone. You are sad.
Albeit trivial (considering what your day to day life must be like with this sort of rage and bitterness that consumes you and prevents you from expressing compassion on such a sad day) please do not respond to this you have lost the thread and most likely you are losing at life. I will pray for you along with Senator Kennedy.
Pagey, I'll simply note that you have done nothing but argue from assertion. Because you say the world is flat does not make it so. You are such a paragon of decency and grace that you believe that there are days where it should not mentioned that a powerful person has wrongly killed an innocent person and has never expressed remorse for it. Congratulations.
Will Allen is a fascist who makes up malicious lies about Castro's Cuba and thinks it was a good idea of the United States to attack smaller and weaker countries like Vietnam and Iraq. It's really strange to hear words like 'decency' coming from him.
As for Ted Kennedy, I hope and pray that God has mercy on him and welcomes him into His eternal kingdom. He is a sinner, as are we all.
No, Hector, you're just an apologist for politically motivated murder, and the sort of moral dolt who believes that human beings are rightfully considered property of the state. Do you ever tire of goose-stepping?
Will it is time to stop. You have made a mistake. You have embarrassed yourself. You just need to stop now and we will all forgive you.
You are not a bad person but you are acting like one. You are frustrated in your life and that is understandable due to your general lack of class and grace but if you remain quiet all will be well.
Thank you for not responding. You have lost.
Pagey, it is bizarre that you attribute "winning" or "losing" to this. Look, you think that there are times when it is graceful to not mention that a powerful person has wrongfuly killed an innocent person, and has not expressed remorse for the killing. Your vision of grace is exrordinarily grotesque.
Will. You must stop. It is over you have lost the thread.
You believe that it is proper to disparage someone on the day they are diagnosed with inoperable fatal cancer. That is graceless and low class. You were the only person to do this. That makes you sad and alone.
I have stated that all will be forgiven if you stop doing it. So please stop. It is embarrassing and childish. Do not respond.
You lost.
Yes, Pagey, you believe that grace entails avoiding mention of the remorseless wrongful killing of an innocent person by a powerful person. You think it is wrong to accurately describe the events of a remorseless wrongful killing. You think it is classier to ignore the remorseless wrongful killing of an innocent person by a powerful person. This is grotesque beyond description.
Will.
Stop. You are acting like a bad person. I truly believe there may be some good in you but you are acting like a petulant child by not accepting that you have been adjudged wrong in your behavior by everyone. Accept that you have lost. Do not respond.
You have lost.
Good gravy, you really think the quality of moral reasoning is properly evaluated by consensus, don't you?
You are not only grotesque, but also frightening. Please, slink back to the sewage pool from whence you came.
Will.
Enough. Do not turn on me because I have pointed out your error. Learn from your mistake. Accept that you have lost. Thank you.
Will Allen,
Wouldn't you like a bit of empathy and well-wishing when you are in your sickbed or in your grave? Would you like to be spat on as you spit on Ted Kennedy?
Pagey, how is it turning on someone to note that one must dwell in ethical sewage to think that the consensus determines what is moral?
Hector, wouldn't you like to have a person think of your well-being, instead of his career, as you desperately cling to life in the air bubble of a submerged car? Tell me, why is noting that a person remains remorseless, after wrongfully killing an innocent person, spitting on them? Is not remorse a prerequisite for empathy and forgiveness?
Wrong again Will.
What is adorable about your convoluted logic is that you think I am defending the good Senator. All I am pointing out is that you lack class. You don't disagree with me you just attack me. That is what good people refer to as classless.
I am sorry, my friend, but you are wrong. You know it, everyone knows it, but you refuse to admit it. Please stop.
You lost.
No Pagey, I never stated or implied that you were defending Kennedy. You are either dishonest or illiterate. I stated that, in the grotesque recesses of your mind, grace and class require that the remorseless wrongful killing of an innocent person by a powerful person be unmentioned. I then noted that you are so devoid of ethics or morality that you think the consensus of the crowd is relevant to examining this issue. Finally, your childish obsession with "winning" or "losing" in discussing this issue is revealing.
Will you must stop.
You are making no sense. You are deranged in your eagerness to disparage a dying man on the day his diagnosis is handed down.
That is wrong and you know it. Everyone's opinion does count when it come to the mores of a society. One of the mores of our society is not to kick people when they are down. You are ignoring that because you were not raised with any class. I blame your mother.
Now, please stop attacking me for pointing out your pathetic faults. Turn inward now and study why you are so angry and bitter. Heal yourself instead of attacking others. You will find in the long run it will make you happier.
You lose.
Yes, Pagey, you are so grotesque as to believe that the consensus not only counts, but is the ultimate legitimate determinant of mores, which is why you have been incessantly yammerimg that so many disagree with me. You've neatly described, without realizing it, how so many awful practices are allowed to continue, particularly in how the more powerful interact with the less powerful. In this case, it means insisting that a powerful man who wrongly killed a far less powerful woman, without remorse, should not have the esteem in which he is held reduced, by mentioning his remorseless wrongful killing of the woman. How classy.
Will! You are the man! By ignoring your foibles (complete and utter lack of class) and repeating and repeating your classless acts you bring even more negative attention to yourself.
My God man just stop! You lost already get over it.
Pagey, what is wrong with your brain, which causes you to obsess over who "won" or "lost", in discussing a matter such as this?
Ha! This from the guy who laughs at people who get diagnosed with cancer!
You. Lost.
Pagey,
Don't waste your time, Mr. Allen appears incapable of understanding common decency. He's just trying to get attention by being transgressive...ignore him and he will go away.
I didn't laugh at anyone. Far from it, because I consider this an exceedingly serious matter. In fact, I stated that making jokes about this would be stupid. You're a liar, Pagey, or merely psychotically unable to discern reality from your visual hallucinations. That would explain much.
Incorrect Will.
You were disrespectful to a person who was just diagnosed with cancer. You attacked that person snidely. You lack class.
Stop posting now. You lose.
Yes, Hector, your vision of decency requires that the remorseless wrongful killing of a innocent woman by a powerful man go unmentioned. Congratulations.
There you again Will. Oozing with vitriol.
I told you to stop posting and now you will stop. You lose.
Not to diminish his woes on a personal level, there is a small bit of poetics in his health/mortality issues and the onset of a new generation of Democratic leadership.
Posted by cal | May 20, 2008 4:01 PM