Clinton Wins WV

Her campaign is rescued from the dead. As the Clinton campaign sagely points out "no Democrat has won the White House without winning West Virginia since 1916" and therefore Obama's primary loss shows that despite his large lead in the polls over John McCain, he can't possible win the election.

What's even more interesting is that no Democrat has won the White House without carrying Minnesota since 1912 (it went for Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose party) so given that Obama won Minnesota and Clinton won West Virginia, McCain is guaranteed to win the general election unless the eventual nominee can somehow completely replicate the social and political conditions prevailing in pre-WWI America. The outlook, in short, is very grim.

Comments

I think it's also important to note that no biracial men or white women have been elected president. Also, no 72-year old geezers. I'm betting on Gravelmentum.

Posted by ben | May 13, 2008 7:57 PM

Looks like the racists finally got their say in good ol WV.

Posted by Middleman | May 13, 2008 7:58 PM

That was some low-quality snark.

Posted by JFD | May 13, 2008 7:59 PM

Any chance she uses this to go out on a high note?

Posted by 55 | May 13, 2008 8:01 PM

Why won't the poor, white, uneducated, racist motherfuckers vote for Obama? Surely this spells trouble for the general election!?!?!?

Posted by PeteyDouchebag | May 13, 2008 8:05 PM

"What's even more interesting is that no Democrat has won the White House without carrying Minnesota since 1912"

Clinton can win Minnesota in November.

Obama can't win West Virginia in November.

But, of course, Matthew knows this already.

-----

Yglesisas and the Marty Peretz pool boys have no problem with lying about the nomination race to get their anti-universal healthcare, anti-progressive economy guy the nomination.

Yglesias and Peretz don't much care if the Democrat or Republican wins in November. They've got their familial bank accounts to fall back upon.

Rich folks uber alles!

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 8:05 PM

55:

Two chances: slim and fat.

Posted by joel | May 13, 2008 8:06 PM

Looks like the racists finally got their say in good ol WV.

Exits (check out TPM) show 1 in 4 of Hillary's voters were racist and 1 in 5 of Obama's voters were sexist. If Hillary wins 2:1, that's a Dem electorate that's about 17% racist and 6.5% sexist. This doesn't assume that the taboo of declaring oneself racist is larger than declaring oneself sexist.

That said, WV is very white, very poor, very old, and loves familiar names.

Posted by ben | May 13, 2008 8:07 PM

And Petey doesn't care about the mountain of corpses both of his preferred candidates, Edwards and Clinton, helped build in Iraq. Why is Petey such a fan of war mongers?

Posted by mad6798j | May 13, 2008 8:09 PM

Heh. We got the faux Petey Douchebag to appear just before the real one. Perfect timing.

Posted by Karl | May 13, 2008 8:10 PM

Congratulations to Hillary Clinton. Now onward and forward. Here’s a summary of some good reasons to consider supporting Obama. Share it widely with friends in Kentucky and Oregon:
http://acropolisreview.com/2008/04/top-reasons-to-give-barack-obama-your.html

Posted by Tina | May 13, 2008 8:12 PM

"That said, WV is very white, very poor, very old, and loves familiar names."

WV is relatively economically disadvantaged, and doesn't like economic royalists, when given a choice.

Obama may love bashing universal healthcare and talking down Social Security, but that's not in the interests of the voters of WV.

Or the voters of OH.

Or the voters of PA.

Or the voters of MI.

It's sure in the interests of Matthew Yglesias, Marty Peretz, and General Electric, however. Obama's their guy!

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 8:12 PM

Typical white people, all bitter and clinging.

Posted by Will Allen | May 13, 2008 8:13 PM

If Hillary did withdraw tonight, she'd have to denounce herself.

Posted by TKD | May 13, 2008 8:13 PM

Why doesn't Matt ban Petey? Is it because he ignites flame wars, which tend to extend comment threads, which, of course, inflate page views?

Is because even though he's a troll, he is Matt's troll, as opposed to Al, who used to troll at Drum's site and who might actually be not one troll, but a collective; or SLC, whose unhinged rants could just as easily be posted on TPM or Drum's site?

Posted by Shine | May 13, 2008 8:15 PM

WV is relatively economically disadvantaged, and doesn't like economic royalists, when given a choice.

WV has the 3rd lowest per capita income. Where I come from, we call that poor. In Douchebagland, I guess that's some sort of slur. As someone who's spent some time growing up on foodstamps, I'm going to apologize to you for not using your fancy words.

As for "economic royalists", WV's junior senator is a freakin' Rockefeller. WV looooooves royals.

Posted by ben | May 13, 2008 8:19 PM

Clinton can win Minnesota in November.

She can't win Oregon or Washington in a matchup with McCain. Obama can.

So, Petey, for the 35th time of asking: given the electoral battleground of a (na-ga-happen) Clinton campaign, where would the Senate votes to pass a Clinton healthcare plan come from?

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 8:22 PM

"That said, WV is ... very old"

Clinton won the 17 - 29 yo vote tonight by around twenty points.

"WV is ... very poor"

While I understand that purging poor folks from the Party is the core mission of Yglesias, Peretz, and General Electric, it's worth noting that all three of those entities are happier with a weak Democratic Party than a strong Democratic Party.

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 8:24 PM

He's right, look what Minnesota did for Mondale in 84.

Posted by Kyle | May 13, 2008 8:26 PM

And since DC could vote, NO Democrat has won without DC. Since Clinton lost DC by a landslide, there is no way she could win DC in the general election, and therefore no way she could win the White House. QED.

Posted by Galois | May 13, 2008 8:31 PM

The collective opinion of the voters of West Virginia is worth roughly four dollars, or the state's gross income for a month.

Posted by Andy | May 13, 2008 8:32 PM

1) I don't understand why Obama doesn't ask Jesse Jackson to help him campaign in Kentucky. Jesse has actually spent a fair amount of time over the past decades in Appalachian white blue-collar communities trying to build his Rainbow coalition.

2) He's been a stronger advocate for the working poor in that area than their royalist representatives like Senator Mitch McConnell.
See, e.g,, http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1998/09/23/loc_jesse23.html

3) Who else at the Democratic 2000 Convention mentioned the poor of Appalachia?
From http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/conventions/democratic/transcripts/u060815.html
"In the midst of great wealth, one in five children still grow up in poverty. It's a moral disgrace we cannot accept. A coal miner dies every six hours from black lung disease.

In Mud Creek (ph), Kentucky; in Hazzard (ph), in Nelsonville, Ohio, in Big Stone Gap, children live in trailers and go to school in trailers.

Think of Appalachia and remember most poor people are not on welfare, they work every day. They do their heavy lifting. They take the early bus. They work the late shift. Most poor people are neither brown nor black. They're white. They're female. They're young. They're invisible. But they're all God's children. "

4) Plus the coal mining areas were kinda screwed during the Clinton Administration because of Gore and Wild Bill's environmental advocacy.

5) Plus Jesse probably has some contacts in the area that would give Obama a starting network -- and credibility by association.

Posted by Don Williams | May 13, 2008 8:34 PM

"As for "economic royalists", WV's junior senator is a freakin' Rockefeller. WV looooooves royals."

I don't think it's any coincidence that Rockefeller's tenure has coincided with WV's slide from solid Dem to slight Republican.

If the Democratic Party in WV is represented by folks like Rockefeller and Obama, it's hard to make the case to voters there why they should vote Dem in November.

If the nominee of the Democratic Party is someone like Obama who bashes universal healthcare and talks down Social Security, folks in WV, OH, PA, and MI are going to justifiably feel sold out.

But Yglesias, Peretz, and General Electric will sure feel happy. For them, it's not about winning in November, it's just about stopping Clinton.

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 8:34 PM

My theory is, Petey has a disease and has maybe a year to live without an operation. He can't afford it right now, which is why the issue of mandates is all that matters to him. Fear of dying makes him a moron, an asshat, a liar, and a flip-flopper. He's convinced that mandates will help him get his operation, so he'll defend them to the death.

Posted by Danny Glover | May 13, 2008 8:35 PM

The Clintons are blowing smoke, and a lot of their win came from fond memories of Bill, but this is still a blow to Obama. Pre-Wright, pre-all those Muslim smear e-mails, pre-"bitter," his campaign was hoping to break 40 percent here. It's not impossible for him to claw back some of these voters (enough to win Ohio, Penn, but not West Virginia), but the post-racial candidate is no longer so.

Posted by David Weigel | May 13, 2008 8:36 PM

He's right, look what Minnesota did for Mondale in 84.

And look at what West Virginia did for Adlai Stevenson in '52!

Context-free historical factoids are fun!

Posted by Marc | May 13, 2008 8:37 PM

I'm sick of people telling us West Virginians we're racist. We voted against Obama cause he's a MUSLIM. Not because he's a ni--I mean, colored guy. Of color.

Posted by West Virginian | May 13, 2008 8:38 PM

Oh wait. McCain can't win either because when was the last time a Republican won without Kansas? I guess Bob Barr is our next President.

Posted by Galois | May 13, 2008 8:40 PM

How, oh how, did I know that this thread would be nothing but repeated talking points from resident Reagan Democrat Petey.

Posted by jbryan | May 13, 2008 8:44 PM

My theory is, Petey has a disease and has maybe a year to live without an operation

Nah, he's hoping to get his compulsive gambling treated.

But he still (36th time) won't say how Clinton's putative electoral college map gets her the Senate votes to pass her healthcare bill, given that her strongest states don't have Senate contests this year, and Obama's stronger states do.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 8:46 PM

Clinton can win Minnesota in November.
Obama can't win West Virginia in November.

But Clinton is down by double-digits in West Virginia, and Obama does better in Minnesota.

I'm pretty sure this cycle is the only time I've heard people posit that general election results can be predicted by what Democratic primary voters say. There is no reason why there should be a connection.

Posted by Dylan Matthews | May 13, 2008 8:46 PM

Petey,

Hillary's health care plan sucks too.

[kisses]

Posted by scythia | May 13, 2008 8:47 PM

If the Democratic Party in WV is represented by folks like Rockefeller and Obama, it's hard to make the case to voters there why they should vote Dem in November.

17% of the Democratic primary voters in WV admitted to real, live person that they voted against a black man because he is black. If these are the people who you think represent the heart and the soul of the Democratic party, then you need to GTF back to the '50s.

My theory is, Petey has a disease and has maybe a year to live without an operation. He can't afford it right now, which is why the issue of mandates is all that matters to him. Fear of dying makes him a moron, an asshat, a liar, and a flip-flopper. He's convinced that mandates will help him get his operation, so he'll defend them to the death.

Or he could be a dishonest hack trying to make his name in the 'sphere by making outrageous Coulter-esque claims.

Posted by Petey's Conscience | May 13, 2008 8:48 PM

But Clinton is down by double-digits in West Virginia, and Obama does better in Minnesota.

And this is why Clinton's campaign is kaput. Given its tone and tenor, she'd be compelled to throw resources into Working White Man territory, having told purple states between the Mississippi and Pacific that they don't fucking count. All eggs, one basket: 2004 redux.

(And, just in case Petey has selective blindness, no downticket help for the Senate contests.)

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 8:53 PM

Which one is more important to winning the white house? Winning W.V. in a primary or actually having your name on the ballot. Do something gracious for once and bow out. Of course, I'm just a patronizing man trying to put a strong woman back in her place.

Posted by Jesse | May 13, 2008 8:55 PM

“…McCain is guaranteed to win the general election unless the eventual nominee can somehow completely replicate the social and political conditions prevailing in pre-WWI America.”

McCain does have an advantage here as he’s the only candidate old enough to remember this era personally. Rumor has it that, a few years later, he and Henry Cabot Lodge nearly came to fisticuffs over McCain’s first proposal to create a “League of Nations.”

Posted by Tyler | May 13, 2008 8:56 PM

Was Petey's soul the collateral on the massive Intrade debt? It's either that, or he's actually a bot.

Posted by J.W. Hamner | May 13, 2008 8:59 PM

"My theory is, Petey has a disease and has maybe a year to live without an operation. He can't afford it right now, which is why the issue of mandates is all that matters to him. Fear of dying makes him a moron, an asshat, a liar, and a flip-flopper. He's convinced that mandates will help him get his operation, so he'll defend them to the death."

Huh. And I guess the fact that I support Social Security means I must be old.

Which is oddly contradicted by the fact that I support College for All, which means I must be young.

-----

Y'know, I've understand for months now that if you scratch the most vociferous Obama supporters, you find someone opposed to universal healthcare.

I understand that Team Obama sees their mission in separating the Democratic Party from its core mission of social justice.

It's why the more folks make, the more likely they are to be Obama supporters.

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 9:00 PM

Hey there, guys, it's me again--the moldering corpse of John Edwards. It's hard to tell exactly where I am, since my eyes have already rotted away, but from what remains of my senses of smell and hearing I think I'm on a hog farm somewhere outside of Sioux City, Iowa.

Anyway, don't worry about me, I'm doing fine. I just wanted to chime in here in defense of my good friend Petey! Friends, take it from this moldering corpse of a son of a mill worker--when Petey backs a multimillionaire white candidate in a fight-to-the-end against Barack Obama, you can count on his good judgment. It doesn't matter if that candidate is the multimillionaire wife of a former president, or this multimillionaire--SON OF A BITCH! OH, GOD, I CAN STILL FEEL EVERYTHING! PLEASE DON'T FEED ME TO THOSE HOGS! OH, GOOD GOD! PETEY YOU BASTARD! HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN TO MEEEAAARGHARGHAAAAAA!!!!

Posted by The Moldering Corpse of John Edwards | May 13, 2008 9:01 PM

"But Clinton is down by double-digits in West Virginia"

The last polling done in WV - by SUSA, no less - shows Clinton winning WV against McCain by 5 points.

It's Clinton's broad strength among voters in WV, OH, PA, and FL which is why she's winning the electoral vote contest against McCain 280 - 241 while Obama loses to McCain 237 = 290.

But for those who were born into or married into wealth like Yglesias and Peretz, and for those who seek to financially benefit by the weakening of entitlements like General Electric, a McCain/Obama race is win/win! It's only Clinton they have to fear.

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 9:08 PM

Just for fun:

Dukakis
Carter (1980)
Humphrey
Stevenson

All Democrats who won West Virginia and lost the White House.

Posted by David Weigel | May 13, 2008 9:11 PM

^^^^ HAHAHAHA, Classic!

Posted by Middleman | May 13, 2008 9:11 PM

but the post-racial candidate is no longer so.

Post-racial? Obama wasn't black before the smear emails? Hmm, interesting take.

Posted by Seitz | May 13, 2008 9:13 PM

Hillary is on the podium, but even she doesn't seem to be buying what she's selling. This is over except for begging for the money to pay her debts.

Posted by Helter | May 13, 2008 9:15 PM

"It's why the more folks make, the more likely they are to be Obama supporters."

I can pretty much guarantee you that I make less money than you do. Would I like universal health care? Yes, it might have saved my mother's life. The truth is, neither candidate is offering what is really needed, they're merely proposing plans to increase insurance coverage. They're not the same thing. One of the two candidates did vote for an illegal and disastrous war though.

Posted by mad6798j | May 13, 2008 9:21 PM

I dont believe Obama needs to win WV in order to win. that's reading tea leaves. it is possible that if he wins in november the red/blue map will be different than it has been in 30 years.
besides, i believe that Kerry lost WV, but won the election.

Posted by joe in oklahoma | May 13, 2008 9:22 PM

I dont believe Obama needs to win WV in order to win. that's reading tea leaves. it is possible that if he wins in november the red/blue map will be different than it has been in 30 years.
besides, i believe that Kerry lost WV, but won the election.

Posted by joe in oklahoma | May 13, 2008 9:22 PM

If the term "economic royalists" has any semantic content, it surely embraces both John Edwards and the Clintons. But of course, it doesn't mean anything at all--it's just another verbal spasm spawned by the inTrade-addled cortex of NAMBLA Petey (my google-bomb of choice).

Posted by marcj | May 13, 2008 9:23 PM

Isn't the primary race effectively over by the time WV usually votes? If so, isn't Clinton's claim similar to, "No one has ever become President without winning nomination"?

The latter ought to strike a chord with her.

Posted by Trieu | May 13, 2008 9:26 PM

The best part of her speech is describing the working people who are skipping meals out to save money to contribute to her campaign. This woman has $109 million, but she wants the poor to finance her doomed campaign.

Posted by Rid | May 13, 2008 9:27 PM

Rid,

With respect, the best part was the discussion of the 11-year old who sold his bike to fund her. If I recall correctly from reading elsewhere, this happened within the past week, and resulted in a $400+ contribution.

I eagerly await NAMBLA Petey's take on the highlights.

Posted by marcj | May 13, 2008 9:31 PM

The pundits are right to follow the Clinton lead in shining some light on the concerns raised by her campaign about Obama's electability after winning by such a HUGE margin in West Virginia. As we all know, Obama has never run up a similar margin against Clinton during this race. Otherwise, I'm sure we'd hear the same kind of hemming and hawwing about HER viability.

Oh, and by the way, does Clinton know that the Magic are playing the Pistons right now? She's speaking, and it's close in the 4th quarter... Now, that's neglecting Florida and Michigan voters.

Posted by LIJ | May 13, 2008 9:31 PM

She's bragging about some kid who sold his bike to send her money. She took money from a kid who sold his bike? She’s rich, she needs to buy him a new bicycle.

Posted by bjd | May 13, 2008 9:32 PM

In statistics, they have three words for West Virginia: small sample size

Posted by Andrew | May 13, 2008 9:33 PM

Petey what you need isn't Clinton, you need to get a high paying job and stop with the penis envy BS.

Posted by coomaraswamee | May 13, 2008 9:34 PM

Wait--Appalachian Democrats really like the Clintons? I'm completely shocked.

Anyway, moving on ...

Posted by DTM | May 13, 2008 9:36 PM

A $400 bike? Parents these days.

Posted by 55 | May 13, 2008 9:36 PM

Sad. Hillary says overwhelming support from a sorry state full of fat, nicotine stained, alcohol addled, bigoted, wheezing emphysemic, high school dropouts is indicative of broader national electability.

Posted by steve duncan | May 13, 2008 9:36 PM

Petey loses this thread by citing "the voters in MI".

I mean, yes Clinton probably wins Michigan easily if she's the only name on the ballot. BFD there.

Posted by Pooh | May 13, 2008 9:38 PM

Sad. Hillary says overwhelming support from a sorry state full of fat, nicotine stained, alcohol addled, bigoted, wheezing, emphysemic high school dropouts is indicative of broader national electability. Maybe it's a more prevalent demographic than I'd care to ponder.....

Posted by steve duncan | May 13, 2008 9:40 PM

ok so the logic is that whenever a dem wins WV the Dem wins the WH.
dems don't win oklahoma, and they still win the WH.
neither Clinton nor Obama will win oklahoma,
ergo, Obama wins in November....

and oklahoma has more electoral votes than WV.

Posted by joe in oklahoma | May 13, 2008 9:42 PM

WV Exit polls: 63% said that Hillary is honest.

Posted by JL | May 13, 2008 9:43 PM

Here's the bike story, from Clinton fan-zine MyDD:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/12/12174/3226

I wonder what NAMBLA Petey would sell to support the $109 million economic peasant.

Posted by marcj | May 13, 2008 9:43 PM

Hillary Clinton is (paying Mark Penn with the proceeds from) your new bicycle.

Posted by Eric | May 13, 2008 9:50 PM

Petey should be happy it appears that Edwards is having his best night in months.

Posted by bjd | May 13, 2008 9:59 PM

"Petey,

Hillary's health care plan sucks too."

For someone like me, it actually sucks more. Obama's plan does little to nothing for me. Hillary's plan does nothing and costs me money. I'll stick with my "fly to Thailand when I need treatment" plan, thank you.

Posted by fostert | May 13, 2008 9:59 PM

From the Hotline summary of the speech:

"Tonight's speech, however, sounded like a final argument. Clinton, tough, combative, scrappy throughout this 15-month fight, didn't even take a shot at the presumptive GOP nominee, John McCain."

Well, why start now?

Posted by norbizness | May 13, 2008 9:59 PM

Hillary Clinton remains the most self centered politician in the Democratic party. That is why so many don't like or trust her; she is all about herself, and doesn't really give a damn about anyone else. That is so obvious.

Posted by cm | May 13, 2008 10:03 PM

No reason to insult the West Virgians, who have been screwed over more than most by big corporations. It is nutty to think Hillary Clinton has a chance anymore at the nomination - Petey is running on hot air. But Obama should appeal to those people when he is nominated, because voting for McCain is voting against their short and long term interests. He has a strong lead over McCain at the moment, and now is the time to start planning on how, exactly, to incorporate some of Clinton's rhetorical tropes into Obama's national campaign. Notably, Clinton's unabashed willingness to attack "elites" which have provided her and her husband with millions of dollars. Obama can't do Hillary's schtick, but he can learn to hit McCain harder on Bush's record. He doesn't have to preface every attack with McCain being an honorable man.
Obama needs to make it simple. Every commenter on a political blog dreams of making up the campaign strategy or advertising, and this would be my walter mitty fantasy. I would make it simple - I would have a researcher count the number of stories dedicated to the flag pin issue, and go through the questions he's been asked. Then, on some appropriate occasion - an interview with one of the talking heads - he should compairhow much time has been devoted to his flag pin as opposed to dentistry. I imagine no tv talking head has asked him about that once. Yet, there's a major dentristry crisis in the country - for the first time, Americans are going without dental care because they can't afford it. This is a potent symbol of American decline. And a potent symbol of how the elites have treated the serious business of the people like it was an issue of People magazine.

End of the mittyism. Obama should take Clinton's turn to populism seriously. It can win for him.

Posted by roger | May 13, 2008 10:04 PM

Courtesy of the field here is an intersting map that shows the counties where Hillary got >65% of the vote:

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/clinton65.jpg

Of course now we can add WV which fill sin part fo the gap with KY next, pretty obvious where her support is coming from.

Posted by Eric K | May 13, 2008 10:04 PM

Hillary Clinton is (paying Mark Penn with the proceeds from) your new bicycle.

Eric wins the thread.

Posted by drjimcooper | May 13, 2008 10:11 PM

Eric wins the thread.

Petey: Where are Clinton's healthcare-passing Senators coming from?

Not being able to answer means you're even more full of shit, you fucking cooler.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 10:12 PM

End of the mittyism. Obama should take Clinton's turn to populism seriously. It can win for him.

Now, that's a serious point. But there's a difference between populism and pandering, and the late focus on the Appalachian states really has narrowed the focus on the race in general, as if the Mississippi were the western border of the US.

You're going to hear a lot more about Obama's 'white people' problem in Kentucky for the next week than about how Clinton has real trouble in Oregon matched against McCain. Why might that be?

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 10:17 PM

Worth noting that with the results in WV tonight, Clinton goes back ahead of Obama in the popular vote. And given the upcoming contests, Clinton will almost definitely remain ahead in the popular vote the rest of the way.

Looks like the voters in the Democratic primaries aren't in favor of bashing universal healthcare after all.

Looks like the voters in the Democratic primaries want a winner in November after all.

Posted by Petey | May 13, 2008 10:17 PM

These pathetic alterations in how to measure the legitimacy of the Clinton campaign are truly puzzling. West Virginia since 1916? I mean you've gotta be kidding me.

This is akin to the Packers saying something like "even though the Giants won the game, we are a better passing team, and having a good pass offense is essential when going up against the Patriots. Therefore, we urge you to ignore the score of the game and choose the Packers to represent your conference in the Super Bowl."

Get over it, folks! You lost the nomination. Now move on.

Posted by JY | May 13, 2008 10:18 PM

Clinton goes back ahead of Obama in the--

--in the bullshit Peteymath vote, in which Florida and Michigan count, but caucuses don't.

Stop lying, Petey, and answer my fucking question.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 10:21 PM

ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY. ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY.

Posted by /b/tard | May 13, 2008 10:26 PM

The point is that you can win MINUTE and lose the presidency (Gore, Kerry,etc.) But you can't win the presidency without West Virginia.

Of course she's losing the spin war, most people on cable and with struggling blogs (pretty much The Atlantic sans Ambinder) aren't too bright.

Posted by israel | May 13, 2008 10:26 PM

I said Worth noting that with the results in WV tonight, Clinton goes back ahead of Obama in the popular vote. but clearly I'm out of my mind.

Posted by PeteyIsAnIdiot | May 13, 2008 10:27 PM

I just wish some anchor, reporter, journalist, etc... would call Terry MacAullife and Howard Wolfson on their Michigan/Florida b.s./spin.

It is almost painful to listen to.

Worst case, the world has to put up with it for a few more weeks.

But what a depressing and embarrassing way for them to go out.

Oh well. Tim K would be proud.

Posted by SoCalJustice | May 13, 2008 10:28 PM

Thank you WV. You are awesome!!!!!!!!

Obama Cyberbullies

You just don't get it. We know Hillary is a long shot to get the nomination. However, every Presidential candidate has been allowed to take their case to the convention without being called divisive or selfish. She is being held to a different standard.

If Hillary has to exit the race because of an unqualified candidate, her supporters will feel cheated and angry. He seems to inspire the worst qualities in his supporters, and judging from your comments, you expect Obama to win without us.

If I could produce a campaign video on You Tube with your petty and hateful remarks, Obama would be toast.

Posted by EWard | May 13, 2008 10:28 PM

Worth noting that with the results in WV tonight, Clinton goes back ahead of Obama in the popular vote. And given the upcoming contests, Clinton will almost definitely remain ahead in the popular vote the rest of the way.

Sure, if you include Florida, but exclude Iowa, Nevada, Maine, and Washington state--and include Michigan, but exclude everybody in Michigan who was denied the chance to vote for Obama and pulled the lever for "Uncommitted" instead.

That's a completely honest count.

(Actual numbers here.)

Here's another question Petey has never answered: what does it say about Clinton's claim to the nomination that he has to use the most arbitary and inconsistent count, including illegitimate contests and excluding legitimate ones, just so he can argue Clinton has won a metric that plays no role in selecting the nominee?

Posted by Marc | May 13, 2008 10:33 PM

"Stop lying, Petey, and answer my fucking question.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 13, 2008 10:21 PM"

He's a dishonest hack stuck in a "No True Scotsman" mindset where mandates - which started out as a center-right economic royalist proposal - without an enforcement mechanism are somehow more important than the Iraq War. He's a whiny child whose just sad he made bad bets on inTrade, which is what economic royalists do. Ignore him.

Posted by Reality Man | May 13, 2008 10:33 PM

Petey: Yglesisas and the Marty Peretz pool boys have no problem with lying about the nomination race to get their anti-universal healthcare, anti-progressive economy guy the nomination.

That should read:

Yglesisas, John Edwards and the Marty Peretz pool boys have no problem with lying about the nomination race to get their anti-universal healthcare, anti-progressive economy guy the nomination.

Can't believe you were backing a trust fund scumbag - so vehemently - all that time.

Posted by SoCalJustice | May 13, 2008 10:33 PM

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Posted by /b/tard | May 13, 2008 10:37 PM

Isn't the primary race effectively over by the time WV usually votes?

WV, hell. The race is usually over by the time that big, bellwether, we-cannot-possibly-decide-the-nominee-without-them, PA votes. For some reason everyone's buying into the Clinton frame that we always decide the nominee by four or five swing states, when that just hasn't happened in a while.

Posted by Cala | May 13, 2008 10:38 PM

"If Hillary has to exit the race because of an unqualified candidate, her supporters will feel cheated and angry. He seems to inspire the worst qualities in his supporters, and judging from your comments, you expect Obama to win without us."

So basically you don't recognize the legitimacy of the democratic process. Getting fewer votes isn't being forced out, it's losing when the other candidate had more supporters. If she was such a qualified candidate, she would be able to convince more people of that than Obama. However, she has failed to do so. That isn't Obama's or his supporter's fault. That's her fault.

Posted by Reality Man | May 13, 2008 10:39 PM

Well, since only about 15 people live in West Virginia, and the undereducated among them all voted for Hillary, I guess that means she's 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue bound. Isn't W. Virginia's state motto, "It's All Relative?" I don't mean to be a snob. I love Appalachia, but Hillary has to read the handwriting on the wall, the Internet, and all the major newspapers. Pack it in girlfriend; the presidential thing is over: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Posted by Peggy McGilligan | May 13, 2008 10:45 PM

Was there a Republican primary in West Virginia today, or have they already had theirs? Whatever the case, I would be interested in the percentage of voters who voted against McCain there, especially those who bothered to go to the polls to vote against him even though he has the Republican nomination sewed up. In the last few Republican primaries, it has ranged from twenty to twenty five percent.

If that holds true in the general election, and if Bob Barr runs a strong campaign, McCain might have a real problem.

One of those pre-World War I conditions that enabled the defeat of Taft in 1912, by the way, was the emergence of a strong third party candidate in former President Roosevelt.

If Barr pulls between ten to twenty percent of the vote in the South, and two to three percent of the vote elsewhere in the country, that could be enough to swing quite a few states over to Obama. Especially if ten percent of Republican voters stay home, and another ten percent actually vote against McCain, particularly if they vote for Obama.

I somehow doubt that McCain will make up the difference, either with independents, Democrats, or even with the folks of LaRaza.

Posted by The Pagan Temple | May 13, 2008 10:46 PM

ANONYMOUS HATES THE DARK VOTE HILLARY.

Anonymous hates the dark. Vote Hillary!

Anonymous hates the dark. Vote, Hillary!

Anonymous hates; the dark vote Hillary.

Anonymous hates the dark vote, Hillary.

Anonymous hates the dark vote? Hillary!

Anonymous: Hates the dark. Vote: Hillary.

Posted by Punctuation Wizard | May 13, 2008 10:48 PM

Was there a Republican primary in West Virginia today, or have they already had theirs? Whatever the case, I would be interested in the percentage of voters who voted against McCain there, especially those who bothered to go to the polls to vote against him even though he has the Republican nomination sewed up. In the last few Republican primaries, it has ranged from twenty to twenty five percent.

If that holds true in the general election, and if Bob Barr runs a strong campaign, McCain might have a real problem.

One of those pre-World War I conditions that enabled the defeat of Taft in 1912, by the way, was the emergence of a strong third party candidate in former President Roosevelt.

If Barr pulls between ten to twenty percent of the vote in the South, and two to three percent of the vote elsewhere in the country, that could be enough to swing quite a few states over to Obama. Especially if ten percent of Republican voters stay home, and another ten percent actually vote against McCain, particularly if they vote for Obama.

I somehow doubt that McCain will make up the difference, either with independents, Democrats, or even with the folks of LaRaza.

Posted by The Pagan Temple | May 13, 2008 10:48 PM

ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK ANONYMOUS HILLARY VOTES FOR THE DARK 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