I hadn't realized that the "DC Madam" has now killed herself after being publicly humiliated, arrested, etc. for the grievous crime of brokering an exchange of services for money between consenting adults. David Vitter, of course, is sitting pretty in the US Senate.
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DC Madam
02 May 2008 05:21 pm
Comments (47)
It's a fucking obscene.
My prayers go out to her.
As a number of people have noted, this is the 2nd suicide in a highly publicized prostitution case in the DC area in little more than a year. A former employee of Palfrey named Brandy Britton (a mother of 2 & former University of Maryland professor) hanged herself in Jan. 2007 after having been similarly publicly humiliated, arrested, indicted, financially ruined, etc. The Post ran a predictable post-mortem "what she had become" Style section piece.
Law & policy (including prosecutorial priorities) in this area need to be changed.
Hmmm. She had a black book that had half of official Washington scared shitless -- and they saw what just happened to Eliot Spitzner.
And you think she killed herself?
If you believe this was a suicide then you probably also believe Saddam had WMD's.
What does Vitter have to do with her suicide?
Al,
You know perfectly well what point Matt was making.
So how long before this is a plot device on Law and Order?
I hadn't known that she is the second 'suicider' in this sordid saga, the first one being an honest to goddness Ph. D. in Sociology and an academic.
Al,
You know perfectly well what point Matt was making.
So how long before this is a plot device on Law and Order?
No, I don't Eric K. Care to explain?
I hadn't known that she is the second 'suicider' in this sordid saga, the first one being an honest to goddness Ph. D. in Sociology and an academic.
The third if you buy the story that U.S. Attorney Jonathan Luna stabbed himself 36 times with his own pen-knife and then drowned himself in a lake back in 2003.
Are you really this stupid or are you just being an obtuse asshole?
Of course Matt isn't saying that Vitter is repsosnible for her "Suicide".
His point is to highlight once again the vastly unequal treatment under the law of prostitutes/madams and the johns that make their business possible. This woman has her life destroyed and faced years in prison. Vitter didn't even lose his Senate seat.
His point is to highlight once again the vastly unequal treatment under the law of prostitutes/madams and the johns that make their business possible. This woman has her life destroyed and faced years in prison. Vitter didn't even lose his Senate seat.
So? Drug pushers are prosecuted more harshly than drug users.
I don't think prostitution should be illegal, but if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
I'm sorry she killed herself, but Senator Vitter doesn't have anything to do with it.
Internet rumor du jure:
"During several recent appearances on The Alex Jones Show, Palfrey also said that she was at risk of being killed and that authorities would make it look like suicide. She made it clear that she was not suicidal and if she was found dead it would be murder.
Palfrey had threatened to release the names of well-known clients of her upscale call girl ring in the nation’s capitol, and had indicated that Dick Cheney may be one of them."
Woot! Vince Foster redux!
What does Vitter have to do with her suicide?
Diaperboy David has nothing to do with her suicide. It is, however, interesting that Bush's Justice Dept. made sure they took her down for being a madame, but never prosecuted the Republican Senator from a state with a Democratic governor (i.e. if he got booted, the GOP would lose that seat when the governor appointed somebody to fill it).
It's all SOP for the current administration and the GOP. Rules and laws only apply to others. Their actions are just scummy.
Speaking of scummy GOP actions, did you hear that the top EPA regulator was fired because she had the audacity to tell Dow Chemical that they had to clean up their own mess? Just like the U.S. Attorneys who cared more about he Constitution and law than to Bush loyalty.
There simply hasn't been a more corrupt group of politicians in my lifetime.
Yes, Jonathan Luna had been working on the DC Madam case when he was found dead. Seems to recall a Jack Abramoff connection as well, somewhere along the line.
What a story for any real journalist, but are there any?
Going pro is one thing but whatever it is one does with a pro that involves wearing diapers is on another level. At least on the level of public shame. It just goes to show you how tolerant Republicans are, of other Republicans. Truth be told most of the would probably jump at the chance to join Cheney at his undisclosed Jackson Hole location to screen his extensive library of Abu Ghraib and CIA interrogation tapes.
but never prosecuted the Republican Senator from a state with a Democratic governor
Besides there being far too little evidence to support a prosecution against Vitter, did they prosecute any clients? No. So the idea that that the prosecutors refrained from prosecuting Vitter for political reasons is simply more from the far left-wing fever swamps.
did you hear that the top EPA regulator was fired because she had the audacity to tell Dow Chemical that they had to clean up their own mess?
Gee, you mean another government official that believes that she is a complete monarch who doesn't have a boss? Shocking.
Besides there being far too little evidence to support a prosecution against Vitter
I'd say his own televised confession is fairly substantial evidence. Why do you say there was "far too little evidence"?
did they prosecute any clients? No. So the idea that that the prosecutors refrained from prosecuting Vitter for political reasons is simply more from the far left-wing fever swamps.
I don't see how that follows, either. Can you explain?
It's times like these when you're reminded that Al's not a vile right-wing hack; on a human level, he's also an incredible asshole.
I'm sorry she killed herself, but Senator Vitter doesn't have anything to do with it.
Have you been in Florida recently, Al? You sound awfully guilt-ridden.
Wow. "Far left fever swamps". The Al bot is being issued Spiro Agnew's talking points today!
Oh please, please please - isn't it time to denounce the nattering nabobs of negativism? Look at how they are slandering Bush's most excellent economy!
I guess your bosses are getting into that popular retro fashion. Keep up the fine work!
I'd say his own televised confession is fairly substantial evidence.
What did he confess to? As far as I'm aware, he confessed to a "sin". He certainly didn't talk about any crime.
I don't see how that follows, either. Can you explain?
They didn't prosecute any clients. So clearly they didn't single Vitter out for special treatment - he was treated the same as every other client.
Wow, the Albot isn't just dropping a steaming load and then vacating.
What did he confess to? As far as I'm aware, he confessed to a "sin". He certainly didn't talk about any crime.
Well, lessee, what "sin" might he have committed? Was it not cleaning his room? Fibbing about who started a fight? Oh, yeah, his sin was boinking a prostitute. Now, unless said prostitute gave it to him for free, he was also involved with, er, paying for sex, which happens to be a ... (wait for it) CRIME.
Always happy to help out your reading comprehension, Al.
Well, lessee, what "sin" might he have committed? Was it not cleaning his room? Fibbing about who started a fight? Oh, yeah, his sin was boinking a prostitute.
Says who?
Gee, you mean another government official that believes that she is a complete monarch who doesn't have a boss? Shocking.
What evidence do you have of that? Sounds like slander to me. Apparently many scientists at EPA feel like politics overcomes science and law.
Not that it's a shock that an administration who approves of torture would also ignore science ... or math ... or common sense.
BTW, Al, here's some more GOP slime. Lurita Doan is finally kicked to the curb, a year after using her office to violate the Hatch Act. I guess it's OK for Republicans to break the law when it's in support of other Republicans.
Slime. The current incarnation of the GOP is nothing but slime. (I was a registered Republican for well over a decade. WTF happened to them.)
No one would do the dumb shit Al does without getting paid. How hard he works!
Matt didn't realize this until today?
Someone needs to pay a wee more attention to current events.
Al: C'mon, the way Vitter, a social conservative, has gotten 'away' with this is pretty breathtaking, no? Although, it is LA...but that the Holy Roller GOP caucus keeps him as a member in good standing, you gotta admit, it's a bit disgusting?
I mean, the GOP position, in legislation and supporting the president, is against sex education that includes contraception....but OK with members who vote that way, although they are banging hookers?
That said, don't get the vitriol of commenters that launch these attacks on Al, who, seems to me, is often way more balanced and under control than a helluva lotta commenters here. I'll resist the 'bot temptation. As best I could.
A few miscellaneous comments:
1) It is amazing how any subject whatsoever can lead into "Bush and/or GOP" is the worst EVER. The DC madam story led to a) the GOP is slime b) the economy sucks c) Sadam did/did not have WMD's. Bizarre.
2) Agree that Matt's a bit behind, which is unusual. This story's been fairly big news for well over 24hrs.
3) While skepticism of suicides is always a good thing, this one may actually be as simple as it sounds without all the conspiracy theories that may or may not apply to other suicides. Quotes like this from Pelfry, "I am not going back to prison. I will commit suicide first," or perhaps that's from someone "in on" the conspiracy.
4) While I think Al and I are usually aligned, I just cannot buy his opening statement, that prostitution should be legal, ie. the whole victim-less crime thing. Some stats are simply harrowing, such as:
a) Average of of starting prostitution-14
b) 91% of prostitutes would escape if they could
c) Average age of death of prostitutes is 34.
d) 62-78% are raped
Still victimless? (I had the link to the stats, but my comment got held, presumably due to the link, so I'll remove it. Just google it).
As an aside, I was surprised to learn in that article how the US is in the large minority of countries to have prostitution be illegal. Having a higher moral standard than most countries is admirable (insert torture comments here).
Just because Al dangles bait, doesn't mean you have to jump for it. He dangles, you jump, he laughs and dangles more bait.
Ignore al. Don't even read his posts. Skip them. Shut him out of your awareness. He's not serious. Don't treat him seriously.
You don't feed him, he doesn't eat.
Yeah--why wouldn't she put her little black book up on the web before stepping off? Paging John Grisham...and Richard Mellon Scaife.
Don't people have to start showing up at every place David Vitter shows his face and shaming him? I mean, how can this guy function in non-scumbag society? (Maybe you can put him up, Al.)
I don't understand you guys. Logic says Senator David Vitter would be LAST person responsible for
Palfrey's deaths -- he's already been outed. He had nothing to gain and a lot to lose if caught.
It's the other guys that I wonder about.
Perhaps Zarco could explain how the status of illegality contributes to his stats.
zarco,
First I've heard of that "I'll commit suicide" quote. Please cite a source.
All I've seen is a quote from her saying she was made of stronger stuff than her former employee who committed suicide.
So again, please cite your source. I'm curious.
Shorter Al: I didn't drink the entire carton of milk! See, if you hold the carton upside down for half an hour, two more drops will come out. It's not empty!
While illegality may contribute to c), it wouldn't contribute a whole lot to the other 3.
Woody, I've seen that source it two separate places, and now that you ask, it seems to be pretty widespread. Adding a link has seemed to get comments held in the past, so I won't put it in. But it's in a Time online article by Adam Zagorin and a Yahoo article by Mitch Stacy. Easily googlable. Here's the quote in Stacy's Yahoo article:
Dan Moldea, a Washington writer who befriended Palfrey while considering writing a book about her, said she was cautiously optimistic about her trial, even when the case went before the jury.
After the conviction, Moldea sent her an e-mail but didn't hear back. A week later, he said, he sent another note entitled "A Concerned Friend" asking whether she was OK. Again, he didn't hear back.
After hearing of her death, he recalled a conversation over dinner last year when the subject of prison came up.
"She said, 'I am not going back to prison. I will commit suicide first,'" Moldea said.
What did he confess to?
Paying money to have sex with prostitutes.
That's a crime, remember? Even in DC.
They didn't prosecute any clients. So clearly they didn't single Vitter out for special treatment - he was treated the same as every other client.
Every other client of Deborah Jeane Palfrey, you mean. It's hardly the case that every client of any prostitute, ever escapes prosecution, so the fact that they singled every one of her clients out for special treatment hardly invalidates the position that the special treatment was inherently political in nature. These were, after all, predominantly politicians; predominantly Republican politicians.
Thanks, Zarco, I'll check it out.
Somebody wrote: "did you hear that the top EPA regulator was fired because she had the audacity to tell Dow Chemical that they had to clean up their own mess?"
Al writes "Gee, you mean another government official that believes that she is a complete monarch who doesn't have a boss? Shocking."
sadly, she does have a boss it's Stephen Johnson,
the Alberto Gonzales of the environment.
The irony here is that Mary Gade was well respected in her field, a loyal republican, and a loyal Bushie.
Here's what she said about Bush in 2000: " I’m a Republican and a supporter of Texas Governor George W. Bush. I believe Governor Bush in two terms has put together a stronger bipartisan record on conservation and the environment than Al Gore has in twenty-plus years in Washington, D.C., precisely because Bush puts action and results above talk and posture."
Ultimatly messing with Dow Chemical was a bridge too far.
Somebody wrote: "did you hear that the top EPA regulator was fired because she had the audacity to tell Dow Chemical that they had to clean up their own mess?"
Al writes "Gee, you mean another government official that believes that she is a complete monarch who doesn't have a boss? Shocking."
sadly, she does have a boss it's Stephen Johnson,
the Alberto Gonzales of the environment.
The irony here is that Mary Gade was well respected in her field, a loyal republican, and a loyal Bushie.
Here's what she said about Bush in 2000: " I’m a Republican and a supporter of Texas Governor George W. Bush. I believe Governor Bush in two terms has put together a stronger bipartisan record on conservation and the environment than Al Gore has in twenty-plus years in Washington, D.C., precisely because Bush puts action and results above talk and posture."
Ultimatly messing with Dow Chemical was a bridge too far.
if this is a double post i apologize.
Someone sited Amererican Journal of Epidemiology to the effect that the average death age of prostitutes is 34. This is the abstract:
Abstract:
In this study, the authors estimated overall and cause-specific mortality among prostitute women. They recorded information on prostitute women identified by police and health department surveillance in Colorado Springs, Colorado, from 1967 to 1999. The authors assessed cause-specific mortality in this open cohort of 1,969 women using the Social Security Death Index and the National Death Index, augmented by individual investigations. They identified 117 definite or probable deaths and had sufficient information on 100 to calculate a crude mortality rate (CMR) of 391 per 100,000 (95% confidence interval (CI): 314, 471). In comparison with the general population, the standardized mortality ratio (SMR), adjusted for age and race, was 1.9 (95% CI: 1.5, 2.3). For the period of presumed active prostitution only, the CMR was 459 per 100,000 (95% CI: 246, 695) and the SMR was 5.9 (95% CI: 3.2, 9.0). Violence and drug use were the predominant causes of death, both during periods of prostitution and during the whole observation period. The CMR for death by homicide among active prostitutes was 229 per 100,000 (95% CI: 79, 378), and the SMR was 17.7 (95% CI: 6.2, 29.3). Deaths from acquired immunodeficiency syndrome occurred exclusively among prostitutes who admitted to injecting drug use or were inferred to have a history of it.
If I understand the abstract correctly, while engaged in prostitution, a woman has 1/200 chance to die in a given year, which is high for a presumably young woman, but it cannot in any way lead to average age at death equal to 34, UNLESS, this is average age of a dead person identified as a prostitute, and it is highly probable that prostitutes change occupations before, say, reaching the age of 50.
Certain horrors seem to be rather questioningly attributed to prostitution. For example,a majority of them were abused at young age. Assuming it is true, it would be still true if they did not engage in the prostitution AFTER being abused.
One conundrum of the issue is that while it seems preferable to legalize prostitution, it seems also that it should be regulated, as some practices surely should not be tolerated, AND, as a society, we are not able to take care of the least powerful and popular by means of regulation.
For example, women in slaughterhouses work in absolutely horrific conditions, with huge rates of repetitive motion syndrom leading to very painful disability, and the fact that we are not able to regulate it points to very systematic flaw that should be remedied. Of course, there are laws that should be enforced, and which are not. For very similar reasons, when prostitution is legal, than apart for a certain elite of call girls, the conditions are horrific. I say, it is a problem of a society that takes sides with the powerful against the powerless, even if some laws are occasionally passed to protect the latter.
"a) Average of of starting prostitution-14
b) 91% of prostitutes would escape if they could
c) Average age of death of prostitutes is 34.
d) 62-78% are raped
Still victimless?"
Yes - because none of that has anything to do with the profession of prostitution per se, but in fact everything to do with the socio-economic conditions that led the women to enter (or be forced into) prostitution as a profession.
Possible exception is D), which is a crime no matter who it's done to. The only reason it's done to prostitutes so often is a) the quality of their clients, many of whom are drug dealers, and b) the fact that the prostitute is reluctant to report it and provide evidence of the individual involved due to her own legal liability.
LEGALIZED prostitution could be made at least as "victimless" as most other crappy jobs. And you wouldn't need much "regulation" except for disease-transmission prevention, especially if brothels were legal, as pretty soon you'd probably have a "prostitutes union".
when it comes to prostitutes being raped, the police also factor in to the equation. a chicago study found that street workers were more likely to be forced to give cops freebies than to be arrested by one.
lots of vital info here:
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/01/18/interesting-study-of-prostitution-in-chicago/
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Heads in the Sand
Why is everyone so quick to accept this as a suicide? They haven't even had the autopsy yet.
Posted by Skeptic | May 2, 2008 5:50 PM