Fascinating. Not only did I like Barack Obama's speech on Latin America policy, but apparently lots of folks in the audience from the fairly hardline Cuban American National Foundation liked it, too. As with the gas tax, perhaps, it's possible to win some political points by eschewing a bit of the usual BS.
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Electrified
26 May 2008 10:39 am
Comments (22)
just because your name is yglesias doesn't mean you know shit about U.S-Latin American relations or Latin America for that matter. Sure, you took a few survey classes in college and grad school, but that hardly makes you an expert. The truth is you grew up in a sheltered, well-off NY household, your young, and your lack of knowledge on the subject reveals itself from time to time in your posts -- for the trained eye, anyway. Kinda like your support for the Iraq war.
But no problem here, because most of your readership will say, "yglesias is latino [cough] and went to Harvard, so he knows about this stuff, therefore, if he says Obama rocks on Latin American issues, that must be the case."
One big, dry circle-jerk.
israel wrote "One big, dry circle-jerk."
Good job tagging your own comments with the variety of buffoonery that is contained in them, israel.
I suggest adding "two paragraphs of ad hominem" to your list of comment tags.
israel's right, Matt; you shouldn't have asserted in your post that you understand latin-american issues because your name is "Yglesias".
Wait...
APS
Israel, over 60% of Americans think that lifting the embargo would be a good idea. Are they all stupid for wanting to do so? It's hard to fine an expert on Latin America who thinks the embargo is a good idea who isn't from a rich Cuban family hoping to get their old land back. Hell, even the right wingers I knew down in Latin America thought the embargo has been a joke.
I know this might fall under the heading of "DNFTT" - but nevertheless:
Brilliant riposte, israel: very convincing! Now, after careful consideration, do you have any constructive input to offer re the issue of US/Cuban relations, present or future? Or is posting childish insults the limit of your contribution?
PS: while you're at it, you might want to study up on the difference between "your" and "you're". If you're going to invite ridicule for posting trollish nonsense, you don't need to add ammunition by being ungrammatical!
As a Floridian who works in politics, I think it's important to understand the value of this effort by Obama. Ronald Reagan (and Jeb Bush) solidified the Cuban political machine in the 1980s. Cubans have reliably voted 90/10 for Republicans. Young Cubans have begun to assimilate and vote more liberal (at the margin) than their parents. Youngs Cubans now perform 80/20 Republican.
Obama's new approach could further break up the Cuban vote. If he can win even 20% of the Cuban vote, it will go a long way to putting Florida in the Democratic column.
"Over 60% of Americans think that lifting the embargo would be a good idea."
Not Obama.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/obamabob/gGCMfg
Renewing U.S. Leadership in the Americas: Barack Obama
I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations. That's the way to bring about real change in Cuba – through strong, smart and principled diplomacy.
Jennifer, what the hell is wrong with you? Must you ruin the fun by showering facts on their parade? Do you not know Yglesias is the master on the subject because he's latino (cough) and has an advanced degree?
To recap: Obama "electrifies" a bunch of young cubans by touching upon reformists attitudes that have long been brewing in miami's younger cubans; yglesias, an authority, is "fascinated"; his commenters feel kewl that they agree with the "authority" on all Latin American; but as it turns out, Obama, once again, was a bit misleading in his speech: embargo? Mua.
He can just blame it on the teleprompter - that's all he's got after all.
Meanwhile that bitch HRC lied about a woman dying for lack of health insurance and wants Barack Obama shot next month!
Israel,
I think its worth pointing out that there actually isn't a Democratic Primary race anymore. It's over.
Please tell Bill.
Thanks,
Hank
israel, what are you arguing anymore? Obama isn't as far left on this as I would like by dropping the embargo, but Clinton has positioned herself to his right on Cuba. After all, making the perfect the enemy of the good never works out well for anyone. So MY is wrong because he has a Spanish name but is mostly Ashkenazim? Obama is wrong because his views are popular among young Cubans? You just seem to be flailing around in anger. Did anyone bring up Clinton at all except you? Nope. So what's your problem? You just seem to need a reason to be mad.
Obama Speaks to Veterens in Puerto Rico
Want to know the difference between Clinton and Obama supporters
And Find out What has been bothering me
This and more on…
"I think its worth pointing out that there actually isn't a Democratic Primary race anymore. It's over."
Then why the hell was Obama (and his classy wife) in Puerto Rico? I guess he needs those votes in the general election.
To those who think that Obama is being inconsistent: maybe you should learn the difference between "easing an embargo" and "lifting an embargo". Obama proposes to allow Cuban-Americans to visit and aid their families. That doesn't mean you'll all be smoking Havana cigars.
That doesn't mean you'll all be smoking Havana cigars. - Hans B
Dang! Or maybe not ... I once ... um, a friend of mine, uh yeah, that's the the ticket ... a friend of mine once smoked a Cuban Cigar and it was somewhat of a disappointment (not that it was bad, but it was no better than what's coming out of other countries nowadays). OTOH, from what "my friend" says -- Cuban rum is the bee's knees!
One's biography is no predictor of the rightness or wrongness of one's argument. There have been plenty of Latin Americans whose biographies should have caused them to be the most insightful figures ever, yet they were villains or knaves. Everyone can select their own examples.
Not to support anybody named "israel", but my concern over Obama's quote is that he is trying the same stupid stuff he will try on Iran - maintaining "sanctions" which do nothing but get in the way of real diplomacy.
He's pandering to the "I'm tougher than the Republicans" crowd of Democrats, like he panders to Israel to try to win the rich Zionist vote (a waste of time since they prefer Hillary - at least until she shot herself in the foot.)
If he governs based on such policies, he's going to end up in a war with Iran just like Clinton or McCain would (assuming Bush doesn't start it first, which is almost a certainty.) Why? Because he doesn't understand that Iran cannot and will not give up enrichment. So unless he has something more to offer than "sanctions" and "give up enrichment", his policies are not better than Bush's - they will just take longer to start a war.
For the record, I'm not jewish or a reborn christian. Israel is a relatively common name among Latinos, which I am.
Sad day when I have to make apologies for my name, or pseudonym.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/columnists/andres_oppenheimer/story/545582.html
I'm a little more excited than the link mentioned above, but I would say it sums up the mood nicely. Latin Americans here in Nicaragua (where I am enjoying Memorial Day) are just getting to know Obama, but already have strong ties to Bill Clinton. They (like most North Americans) are absolutely ready for the Bush years to end and I have recently seen Bill Richardson flogging Obama on the local newscasts. I would say that if Obama can stake out a reasonable immigration position, then this speech sets some solid expectations that will allow him to hold on to most Democratic Latino voters that went for Kerry...
While I think the embargo is an obvious failure as policy, it's not clear to me that Obama was wrong to shift his position from unilaterally ending the embargo.
Given that Obama has come out in favor of direct negotiations with Raoul Castro (a position that would have been much riskier to take with Fidel), there could be significant leverage in taking the embargo to the table as a bargaining chip in exchange for some meaningful concessions from Cuba (e.g. on family reunification, access for foreign NGO's, release of political prisoners, tolerance of civil associations, etc.).
I suspect that, rather than unilaterally and comprehensively lifting the embargo, Obama plans to negotiate it away bit by bit, getting the Cuban exile community comfortable with the idea as it progresses, and winning some reforms along the way that ameliorate some of the suffering of the Cuban people and create some political space for civil society to develop.
I don't think we'll have any choice but to lift the embargo. If Raul keeps moving forward with his reforms, then eventually there will be openings for private businesses to move in. American companies are going to want a piece of the action.
Comments closed June 09, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
I'll believe white Cubans in Miami going for Obama when I see it, but this is good strategy. When the fundamentals are so favorable, we should be hittiing the GOP on issues they have long assumed to be untouchable, just to confuse them about which flanks to defend.
APS
Posted by Ape Man | May 26, 2008 10:50 AM