Good To Know

I had no idea that the economic interests of oil companies were identical with those of the vast majority of Americans. Good thing we've got Hillary Clinton, Populist Extraordinaire around to tell us otherwise:

She did not. “I’m not going to put in my lot with economists,” she said on ABC’s “This Week” program. A few moments later, she added, “Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.”

Economists, environmentalists, everyone who's thought about the issue for ten minutes, etc. I'm not going to say that our public policy should blindly conform to the consensus among the economics profession, but the gas tax holiday is an illiteracy on a much deeper level -- there's simply no support for this idea among people who've looked at it in a serious way. That's not elitism, that's reality, and what Clinton's selling is Bush-style misgovernment.

Comments

Krugman would get some kudos for saying Clinton is wrong on this, as much as he hates Obama.

Posted by Arnold Evans | May 4, 2008 7:28 PM

Say it! SAY IT! YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE!!!

Posted by El Cid | May 4, 2008 7:28 PM

Pfft. We don't need EXPERTS or ELITISTS running our government. I'm sure Joe from the factory can do a fine job responding to the weakening dollar.

And heading up Foreign Policy? Forget people who have done RESEARCH. Give me Bob, who bags my food at the local grocery market. He's the best bagger I've ever seen! I'm sure he can get a handle on Sunni-Shia divisions pretty easily.

Finally, I think that the BEST person to create our health care should be my next-door neighbor. He was the smart enough to buy a big screen TV for the Super Bowl, but he sure wasn't elitist enough to not invite his buddy over for a beer and nachos!

Posted by LnGrrrR | May 4, 2008 7:29 PM

Oh come on. What's $10 billion among friends. Over the last two months the Treasury has come up about $100 billion short of projections because of falling tax receipts and soaring expenditures. Over the next 6 weeks or so they are going to have to borrow then entire $110 billion to pay off the tax 'rebate'.. The projected fiscal 08 deficit will grow from a projected $360 billion to near $500 billion so let's not sweat a measly $10 billion to make drivers feel a bit better.

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/hp950.htm

In the big scheme of things it means nothing. The 09 deficit could be $750 billion or near a trillion. If the foreign central banks don't loan it to us then the Fed will just print it. We are going to borrow our way out of this mess or else.

Or else blow up the rest of the world perhaps is my guess.

Posted by rapier | May 4, 2008 7:33 PM

“Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.”

Oh this is really the last straw. Hasn't the last 8 years of this attitude been enough?

Posted by McKingford | May 4, 2008 7:34 PM

I honestly don't understand why HRC would think this is a good idea, maybe it's polling well and since a lot of voters are low information voters they'll hear gas tax holiday and it'll send them toward her. But Obama's got the stronger part of the argument, it reinforces negative aspects of HRC, it plays into his theme of changing Washington.

The gas tax holiday does for him what mandates did for her: moral authority and crediblity.

If he sweeps tommorow, I'm going to put it on the gas tax holiday plan.

Posted by Rhoda | May 4, 2008 7:34 PM

I consider myself proud to be an Elite. One of the high-end ones with gold armor and the coooool-ass two-pronged swords.

Wort! Wort! Wort!

Posted by James Gary | May 4, 2008 7:42 PM

Yup. Damn elitist, liberal academic eggheads. I hear some of them also believe in evolution and global warming.

Posted by Dan Kervick | May 4, 2008 7:43 PM

She is fast approaching, if not already at, the laughing stock stage.... a late night footnote joke will be Bill and Hills legacy from Their Excellent 2008 Adventure. Not to mention divisivness, racism and Rovian/UnAmerican McCarthyism slurs... guilt by associations based on pure inuendo bullshit fear mongering and prejudice.

Heck of job Hill and Bill for McCain and the continuation of the Bush legacy.

They suck.

Posted by bALBOA | May 4, 2008 7:47 PM

Well, when Clinton is right, she's right: “Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.” That sounds spot on. For instance, we've been proceeding with the biggest giveaway since the s and l bailout, with little or no discussion about it, conducted by a fed that is borrowing money to loan money to banks that, by law, are not insured by the government, and accepting worthless collateral for it. Those institutions can then buy higher interest paying bonds in the U.S. government - which go up because the Fed is borrowing to lend to the banks cheap. Is that sweet or what? Meanwhile, the Fed keeps interest rates artificially low and the inflation rate has become a joke measure - in real terms, it is spelled out in a pie chart on the business page of the NYT today. It is almost humorous that we have moved from the government leaning towards the richest through tax breaks to actually stealing from the tax base to give to the richest.

And elite opinion is almost unanimous that this is the best thing ever. What a maestro Bernanke is!

So yeah, the elite in this country, the hedge funders, the bankers, the CEOS, the D.C. stooges, the think tankers - they are willing to sacrifice the average american to elite interests if they can earn an extra penny for it, or feel a testicular rush. No question: predators, parasites, badly educated, ill mannered, bubble children who are doing as much damage as they can to the country.

Isn't this a well known truth?

Posted by roger | May 4, 2008 7:52 PM

“Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.”

Statement of fact.

Posted by John Petty | May 4, 2008 7:54 PM

Arnold - Krugman did just that on his blog, though he minimized the importance of the issue:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/gas-tax-follies/

Posted by Kraz | May 4, 2008 7:55 PM

Correction: The relevant report from the TABC.

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp945.htm

While the gas tax holiday is a very silly thing it is no sillier than the rest of the economic talk of the campaigns. What little there is of it. Talk which is totally divorced from the astoundingly ugly realities over taking huge swaths of the middle class and the actual solvency of Uncle Sam.

Posted by rapier | May 4, 2008 7:58 PM

I keep having deja vu reading Yglesias' posts these days, and then I remember it's because I also read Ezra Klein.

Klein's post on the same topic:

Asked about the gas tax holiday and the universal opposition from economists, Hillary Clinton said, "Well, I'll tell you what, I'm not going to put my lot in with economists." Regular readers know I have my own moments of econo-skepticism, but I really wouldn't advise folks to throw in with political hacks instead.

Incidentally, the gas tax stuff shouldn't be thought of as economists versus everyone else. It's economists, environmentalists, energy experts, budget types, and anyone who has spent a couple minutes thinking through the implications of the policy. It's simply a bad idea, albeit one that polls well, so Clinton is running with it. That's experience you can count on, or something.

He's even got the "anyone who has spent a couple minutes thinking" line in there.

Posted by Mr. Noah | May 4, 2008 8:04 PM

Am I guilty of being an elitist if I point out that Hillary's command of subject-verb agreement is somewhat lacking here?

And why should I vote for someone who seems to be delighting in insulting people like me? I get enough of that attitude from the Republicans. Obama could make some hay out of this, if he were to point out how much Hillary is sounding like Dubya these days.

Posted by ChuckE | May 4, 2008 8:08 PM

Don't blame her. She is selling exactly what we we bought quite willingly in 2004 and 2000. In absence of predictions from any other verified model, this would seem to be the best strategy for her.

Posted by gregor | May 4, 2008 8:10 PM

"...what Clinton's selling is Bush-style misgovernment."

I agree about the stupidity of the gas tax holiday, but it seems a little odd to call it an example of "Bush-style misgovernment" when Bush himself opposes it. He was pretty cool to the idea at his recent press conference.

The Bush administration favors permanent marginal tax rate reductions on work, savings and investment, not temporary consumption tax cuts. There are of course good economists who opposed the Bush tax cuts, but there were also many fine ones who supported it, and for some perfectly orthodox reasons. High taxes on work savings and investment cause significant dead-weight losses.

Certainly the Bush administration botched some things (e. g. Iraq, Katrina) but it never favored anything like the McCain/Clinton tax holiday, as far as I am aware.

Posted by rwe | May 4, 2008 8:13 PM

Who will tell Americans the truth?

Much nonsense has been written about how Hillary Clinton is “toughening up” Barack Obama so he’ll be tough enough to withstand Republican attacks. Sorry, we don’t need a president who is tough enough to withstand the lies of his opponents. We need a president who is tough enough to tell the truth to the American people. Any one of the candidates can answer the Red Phone at 3 a.m. in the White House bedroom. I’m voting for the one who can talk straight to the American people on national TV — at 8 p.m. — from the White House East Room.

Who will tell the people? We are not who we think we are. We are living on borrowed time and borrowed dimes. We still have all the potential for greatness, but only if we get back to work on our country.

I don’t know if Barack Obama can lead that, but the notion that the idealism he has inspired in so many young people doesn’t matter is dead wrong. “Of course, hope alone is not enough,” says Tim Shriver, chairman of Special Olympics, “but it’s not trivial. It’s not trivial to inspire people to want to get up and do something with someone else.”

It is especially not trivial now, because millions of Americans are dying to be enlisted — enlisted to fix education, enlisted to research renewable energy, enlisted to repair our infrastructure, enlisted to help others. Look at the kids lining up to join Teach for America. They want our country to matter again. They want it to be about building wealth and dignity — big profits and big purposes. When we just do one, we are less than the sum of our parts. When we do both, said Shriver, “no one can touch us.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/opinion/04friedman.html?hp

Posted by Jezz | May 4, 2008 8:15 PM

Look at the kids lining up to join Teach for America...They want it to be about building wealth and dignity — big profits and big purposes.

Noted without comment.

Posted by James Gary | May 4, 2008 8:31 PM

Oh, the slippery slope once one plunges into anti-rationalism, and exploits fear, envy, and hate.

Hillary’s Talking Points for Tomorrow:

“And there are many elites and intellectuals that refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, and many others do not even believe in God at all.

And these elite intellectuals are teaching our children with this anti-God, anti-American beliefs and are putting their souls at risk of eternal damnation in Hell with Satin. They are therefore Satin’s agents on earth. Do not trust them? If you look, you may see 666 on their skin.

Elites are also putting your children’s lives at risk. They coddle Islamo- Fascists dark skinned guys that are secretly Muslims that want to rape your white daughters at 3.00 AM while they sleep in bed.

They want to coddle Iran. Well I say Nuke those MOTHER FUCKERS. It will create more jobs and lower the price of gas. They are not human like us… they deserve and must be annihilated”

Hill and Bill will be added to the list of George Wallace, Huey Long and George Bush that base their appeal on division, fear and innate prejudice. Franco, Mussolini Hillary-Bill Clinton.

Posted by RasT | May 4, 2008 8:37 PM

Matthew, you make the mistake of crediting the evil fuck with believing what she is saying. She doesn't; she is merely mouthing a sound bite that tested well with a focus group, even though she doesn't believe it for a second, and knows that the policy is bad on every level aside from being a welfare program for the oil companies.

She is fucking slime of the earth, and hopefully will have a massive stroke and die tonight.

Posted by LarryM | May 4, 2008 8:39 PM

Krugman then went and wrote an entire column bashing Obama for the same old nonsense on health care, before throwing in a sentence at the end mentioning Hillary's dumb gas tax idea.

Krugman is officially a hack. His reputation is ruined for good. History will not look back kindly on him.

Posted by Mike | May 4, 2008 8:43 PM

"She is fucking slime of the earth, and hopefully will have a massive stroke and die tonight."

Obama should try this out as a slogan on a new ad.

Posted by Fred Murtz | May 4, 2008 8:52 PM

"“Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.”

Is she really off-base with that? Matt's elite opinion is that gas taxes should be raised a lot higher; that would clearly disadvantage the vast majority of Americans.

The problem with Hillary is that she shares some elite opinions -- for example, the opinion that we should keep ANWR and 80% of the outer continental shelf off-limits to oil and natural gas exploration and extraction. Most Americans would think it's common sense that we should use more of our own domestic energy resources and less of foreign oil.

Posted by Fred | May 4, 2008 8:58 PM

WOW "Hill and Bill will be added to the list of George Wallace, Huey Long and George Bush that base their appeal on division, fear and innate prejudice. Franco, Mussolini Hillary-Bill Clinton."

Kind of hard to be a centrist democrat. People marvel at the venom the left directs at Hillary (a "monster"). Now she and Bill are lumped in with Mussolini and the Bushes.

Maybe Huey Long and Mussolini had something in common, but otherwise, I would say that the Jerimiah Wright left is going totally beserk... oh and me, I am opposed to the gas tax holiday (I'm a hardcore conservative)

Posted by Jozef | May 4, 2008 9:05 PM

WOW "Hill and Bill will be added to the list of George Wallace, Huey Long and George Bush that base their appeal on division, fear and innate prejudice. Franco, Mussolini Hillary-Bill Clinton."

Kind of hard to be a centrist democrat. People marvel at the venom the left directs at Hillary (a "monster"). Now she and Bill are lumped in with Mussolini and the Bushes.

Maybe Huey Long and Mussolini had something in common, but otherwise, I would say that the Jerimiah Wright left is going totally beserk... oh and me, I am opposed to the gas tax holiday (I'm a hardcore conservative)

Posted by Jozef | May 4, 2008 9:06 PM

"Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans."

Is she really off-base with that?

Posted by Fred

Well, that depends whether you interpret the phrase as meaningless or as tautological.

If it were to literally mean that there was one single identifiable "elite opinion", it would be an empirical question, but that's not what she meant -- i.e., I have done an empirical study of the opinions of those I define as non-elites and those I define as elites and I find that in such conditions they support position X, which I support. No such study has been done identifying one set of "elites" which happen to hold the one set of opinions which disadvantage the majority. (I think you'd have a pretty good guess though if you just used Republican leaders & pundits as proxies, but that's just a hypothetical.)

If, on the other hand, the statement is defining elite opinion as "that which disadvantages the majority of Americans," well, there you go, but creating tautologies doesn't get you anywhere.

And there is the false dichotomy even in more rational discussion, particularly the fake preening pseudo-populist right wingers who implement policies which empirically benefit a tiny, tiny portion of the population -- its richest sliver -- while disadvantaging the majority, all the while masquerading as some sort of down-home aw shucks counter-revolution.

You know, like the Estate Tax, which freed that nice poor Hilton family from the onerous Death Tax it faced.

Posted by El Cid | May 4, 2008 9:08 PM

That she feels so desperate as to propose bad policy for votes when cornered speaks volumes, IMO.

The irony here is that, in the midst of the second-life of the Wright fiasco, HRC handed Obama a policy issue for the MSM to discuss on a friggin platter. You almost wonder if she's throwing herself under the bus on purpose.

Posted by Jake | May 4, 2008 9:28 PM

“Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.”

Apparently, superdelegates don't count as elite opinion.

Posted by scuttlebutt | May 4, 2008 9:32 PM

Following up on Fred and El Cid:

There's also a little clarification needed on "disadvantages." There are those who would argue (and yes, there are probably some "elites" among them) that fueling increased consumption of foreign oil with a "holiday" to be paid for with money borrowed from foreign governments is not much of an "advantage."

And that undermining your own message on the need for conservation and alternative energy sources while passing along increased global warming and overseas debt to your kids is a "disadvantage" indeed.

There's a vast difference between those who would argue that Americans need to suck up higher fuel prices because they accurately reflect diminishing supply and are the only thing that might get us to turn our attention to saving the planet, and those who want to save all the tax breaks for the rich. I may be an "elite" by some definitions, but I don't appreciate being classed with the second crew.

Posted by professordarkheart | May 4, 2008 9:37 PM

"Matthew, you make the mistake of crediting the evil fuck with believing what she is saying. She doesn't; she is merely mouthing a sound bite that tested well with a focus group, even though she doesn't believe it for a second, and knows that the policy is bad on every level aside from being a welfare program for the oil companies.

She is fucking slime of the earth, and hopefully will have a massive stroke and die tonight."
LarryM

"By using this service you agree not to post material that is obscene, harassing, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable. Although The Atlantic does not monitor comments posted to this site (and has no obligation to), it reserves the right to delete, edit, or move any material that it deems to be in violation of this rule."

I guess that the blogger and the Atlantic don't consider such comments to be obscene or harassing or defamatory or otherwise objectionable.

Or all of you Obama folks REALLY cool with those descriptions?

Posted by Barry | May 4, 2008 9:39 PM

Watching the give and take on the gas tax issue has made me admire Obama a great deal. As I watch him discussing this issue I actually have the feeling I am watching a potential president willing to lead, and to tell some hard truths, rather than stick his finger in the wind, or take a poll (as it seems his antagonist is willing to do). He seems in it for the country first, not primarily to maintain political power for himself.

Posted by edwardian with obama | May 4, 2008 9:40 PM

Barry: You must not visit here much. Rare is the comments list which doesn't soon contain someone or other calling for the mass deaths of various people or nationalities or ethnic groups.

Posted by El Cid | May 4, 2008 9:52 PM

I guess that the blogger and the Atlantic don't consider such comments to be obscene or harassing or defamatory or otherwise objectionable.

No, I don't, not at all, not even close. I consider them moderate and dispassionate, considering what a sick, twisted and evil creature The Monster is.

Posted by LarryM | May 4, 2008 9:56 PM

Would somebody explain the difference between Clinton proposing a bad gas tax idea for votes, and Obama being one of D.C.'s biggest ethanol whores for votes?

Posted by Will Allen | May 4, 2008 10:01 PM

Jesus!

It's not ELITE opinion that's against the gas tax repeal, it's EXPERT opinion. There's a world of fucking difference, and what Clinton is doing here in conflating the two is EXACTLY what Republican leadership has done since Reagan.

It's despicable politics through and through. I want to be part of a political party that eschews and condemns such dishonesty. Does such a party exist in America? If not, is there any real reason to stay?

Posted by Luke | May 4, 2008 10:06 PM

Barry: You must not visit here much. Rare is the comments list which doesn't soon contain someone or other calling for the mass deaths of various people or nationalities or ethnic groups.

Yes, indeed! And although I deplore the majority of these instances---while meanwhile contributing my own as well!---they're part of what makes this such a "lively" blogging site.

Matt himself is a pretty conventional young DC/NYC "progressive", but his commenters are an exciting bunch, providing an eclectic political stew, with spicy seasonings from Little Green Footballs, ZMag, and Stormfront.com.

It's sort of like Disneyland's Small, Small World---visit the four corners of the Extreme Internet within a single blogsite!

Posted by RKU | May 4, 2008 10:16 PM

I believe Hillary's tax holiday proposal is actually smart. It works this way: cancel the gas tax temporarily, in exchange for an oil producer special tax on profits. It looks pointless if you set the profit tax exactly to balance the gas tax. But actually, you have a knob to adjust now. You can tax more of the profits, for instance, so that you end up collecting more revenue from suspending the gas tax over the summer. Or you don't phase out the profit tax when you phase out the holiday. It's just an extra policy knob, an extra profit tax on producers, that congress will never give you, unless you package it with a gas holiday. What's wrong with that?

Posted by cedichou | May 4, 2008 10:17 PM

Also, Clinton is currently being Lieberman--undermining the Democrats through faux populism in ways that will help the Republicans electorally.

I'll remind the Monster fans that it's the congressional Bush Dogs that are backing her.

Posted by Luke | May 4, 2008 10:20 PM

Most Americans would think it's common sense that we should use more of our own domestic energy resources and less of foreign oil.

Yeah, for the 36 hour supply of domestic consumption it'd produce.

Keep trying, Fred. See Bush's answer to opening up the SPR in his last press conference. The answer as to why that's not a good idea is exactly the same answer as to why opening up ANWR is not a good idea.

Posted by justinb | May 4, 2008 10:22 PM

But actually, you have a knob to adjust now. You can tax more of the profits, for instance, so that you end up collecting more revenue from suspending the gas tax over the summer. Or you don't phase out the profit tax when you phase out the holiday. It's just an extra policy knob, an extra profit tax on producers, that congress will never give you, unless you package it with a gas holiday. What's wrong with that?

People are willing, or have to, pay whatever the price on the pump says. If the $.18 per gallon tax is removed, the price of gas will go up $.18.

If the government levies a tax of $100b on the oil companies, the price at the pump will go up to offset that.

Adjusting taxes on goods where the demand is inelastic is not a "knob", it's silly. Short of price controls, of course.

Posted by justinb | May 4, 2008 10:32 PM

“WOW "Hill and Bill will be added to the list of George Wallace, Huey Long and George Bush that base their appeal on division, fear and innate prejudice. Franco, Mussolini Hillary-Bill Clinton.
Kind of hard to be a centrist democrat. People marvel at the venom the left directs at Hillary (a "monster"). Now she and Bill are lumped in with Mussolini and the Bushes."

Dude, time to wake up and smell the blood and death from the IEDs etc. And to all those offended by words like fuck, shit, etc., please apply your offence and outrage to the carnage and deceit that the administration and Neocons have wrought.

Andrew Sullivan linked to an article in Krisols' Weekly Standard saying how Hillary is One of Them. And it is a Neocon Republican Wet Dream to think it is “Leftie” venom… It is most of the whole fucking country... look at Bush's approval ratings, the opposition to the war and country on wrong track. The Congressional election in Louisiana yesterday is another tangible sign that the whole country is turning against the Republican/Destroy America Party to the Pro-America Democratic Party. The McCartyism “Un-Patriotic” smear campaign is a dangerous one on many levels.

Posted by Vanny White Trash | May 4, 2008 10:40 PM

Ah, I understand now. The tax is suspended but because it's market that determines pricing, prices will largely stay the same, benefiting the oil companies. Then they get taxed on that extra profit as windfall.

Well, since it's a new holiday, at least it's an occasion to bbq.

Posted by asl | May 4, 2008 10:47 PM

Then they get taxed on that extra profit as windfall.

No, because the "windfall" tax is pegged at the price of oil per barrel.

Posted by justinb | May 4, 2008 10:54 PM

Matt himself is a pretty conventional young DC/NYC "progressive", but his commenters are an exciting bunch, providing an eclectic political stew, with spicy seasonings from Little Green Footballs, ZMag, and Stormfront.com.

I actually think that's (partly) wrong. Most of the people commenting on this blog, like Matthew, are pretty conventional center left Dems. They may disagree on the small things, but most people don't stray too far from orthodoxy. Then you have some pretty conventional hawkish Republican types, Al and Fred.

There aren't really THAT many of us off the reservation entirely. There's a few non-interventionists like myself (not that many), there is the the odious Chris Ford, who defies characterization, beyond his somewhat rare combination of hatred of both Jews AND Muslims, SLC, who, despite his disgusting Likudnik views I kind of respect (sometimes), and Petey, who is just crazy. Who else departs seriously from the conventional wisdom?

Posted by LarryM | May 4, 2008 10:59 PM

Who else departs seriously from the conventional wisdom?

There's Lonewacko/TLB, with his IntercappedNativism.

Posted by Senescent | May 4, 2008 11:59 PM

...Clinton 'Not Going To Put My Lot In With Economists' on Gas Tax

May 04, 2008 12:36 PM

ABC News' Mary Bruce reports: Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., declined this morning to name a single economist who backs her call for a gas tax suspension.

"I'm not going to put my lot in with economists," Clinton said in an exclusive appearance on a special edition of "This Week" from Indianapolis.

In light of fierce criticism from economic experts, Clinton said, "We've been, for the last seven years, seeing a tremendous amount of government power and elite opinion basically behind policies that haven't worked well for the middle class and hard-working Americans. ... I know if we get it right, if we actually did it right, if we had a president who used all the tools of the presidency, we would design it in such a way that it would be implemented effectively."

The Democratic candidate also responded to claims that her proposal is not a "truthful response" to the soaring prices at the pump.

"This gas tax issue to me is very real, because I am meeting people across Indiana and North Carolina who drive for a living, who commute long distances, who would save money if the oil companies paid this $8 billion this summer, instead of it coming out of the pockets of consumers," Clinton said. "Now, look, I have long-term plans too. I mean, it's a misnomer to say this is all that I'm doing. It's not. I have a comprehensive long-term energy plan that would go right at dependence on foreign oil."

Clinton also differentiated her plan from that of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the likely Republican presidential nominee, who has also called for summer gas tax holiday.

"My proposal is very different from Sen. McCain," she said. "Sen. McCain has said take off the gas tax, don't pay for it, throw us further into deficit and debt. That is not what I've proposed. What I've proposed is that the oil companies pay the gas tax instead of consumers and drivers this summer."

Clinton has proposed using a windfall profits tax on oil companies to pay for the gas tax holiday. However, she also previously pledged to use windfall profits to create a strategic energy fund for renewable and alternative energies.

But when "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos asked if she had already spent the windfall profits tax, she said, "No ... the tax subsidies will go right into that [strategic energy fund]. I'm talking about something temporary this summer. My longer-term plan is, yes, to put an excess profits tax on the oil companies above a certain level of profit that would go in to help us make the transition.".....

I watched the whole show, and it's a pity the transcript is not available. She took the "hey, it'll only save the average consumer $28!" line and asked "What about the people who drive for a LIVING? Truck drivers? Cabbies?" Seriously, she nailed a lot of the arguments made against her.
She had the figures for independent truckers, for God's sake!

Your first take on her response to McCain's "tax holiday" was the right one, Matt.

She's a pro.

Posted by wobbly | May 5, 2008 12:57 AM

She's a pro.

She is a vicious, evil rabid dog.

No, that isn't fair to rabid dogs. There isn't even a word for scum like her. She makes Richard Nixon look like Ghandi by comparison.

Posted by LarryM | May 5, 2008 1:01 AM

From "Head of State"

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/clinton-calls-for-bad-weather-holiday.html

Monday, May 05, 2008

Clinton Calls for "Bad Weather Holiday"

"When asked this morning by ABC News' George Stephanopoulos if she could name a single economist who backs her call for a gas tax holiday this summer, HRC said "I'm not going to put my lot in with economists.”

The gas tax holiday is...so economically stupid (it would increase demand for gas and cause prices to rise, eliminating any benefit to consumers while costing the Treasury more than $9 billion, and generate more pollution) and silly (even if she won, HRC won’t be president this summer) as to be worrisome. That HRC now says she doesn’t care that what economists think is even more troubling."

-Robert Reich, May 4, 2008

I know we've got those "intellectual", high-falutin', elitist meteorologists, those "forecasters" with their complicated charts and their mumbo-jumbo, their high fronts and their low fronts, their Doppler radars. But I've come to say that we're going to put an end to all of that.

When my daddy and I went out in the morning in (Scranton, Indianapolis, Durham, Hagåtña, Charlotte Amalie, San Juan), and he said "It's going to be a sunny day today", well, that was good enough for me.

And that's why, if you vote for me on (May 6, May 13, June 3), I will put into effect a "Bad Weather Holiday" running from the years 2009-2012--and potentially extendable.

That's right. We shouldn't have to eat our (hot dogs, barbecue, tamales, Chicken Estufao, Stewed oxtail) under rainy skies. We've had enough of going off to work in the (streets, sands, seas) of this most beautiful (state, territory) only to face a cold, cloudy day. We know what it's like to rest our weary bones after a hard day of labor in the nearest (local watering hole, locale taberna, berlina) only to step out into a stiff, tiring wind.

The Weather issue is very real to me, as I've been meeting people across this nation who (walk, drive, sail, ride ox before stewing tail) to work, and would save precious sums if they did not have to spend their hard earned money on "umbrellas" and "rain coats" and other high priced, high class items of the upper crust.

But I say: Let the 'Umbrella Lobby' take the brunt--not our hard working citizens. Oh, sure. I know elite opinion and so called "academic experts" say that my plan would cause 12 straight years of hail, swarms of ravenous locusts, and a vortex of hurricanes ranging from the Mideast to the West Coast.

But I don't put stock in experts. And neither should you. And that's why you should vote for me on (May 6, May 13, June 3).

Cite:

Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/clinton-calls-for-bad-weather-holiday.html

Posted by Robert Hewson | May 5, 2008 1:40 AM

Matt himself is a pretty conventional young DC/NYC "progressive", but his commenters are an exciting bunch, providing an eclectic political stew, with spicy seasonings from Little Green Footballs, ZMag, and Stormfront.com.

MattY once wrote that he wondered why anyone bothered to read the comments on his blog at all. My only reaction was that the blog would really not be worth reading all that much if if the posts didn't come with comments from such an amusing crowd.

Posted by Tyro | May 5, 2008 1:43 AM

Gandhi.

I would dial back just a little. She's trying populism but -- though maybe I've had too many lattes -- it seems pretty unconvincing. John Edwards, you had a sense he'd thought through it.

The sad part is, she could have run a decent campaign on real issues. I'm pretty disgusted too, but let's save the Nixon comparisons.

... I seem to remember some Nixon comments on HRC, from some sort of memoir or informal interview shortly before he dies. Anyone have a link?

Posted by c | May 5, 2008 1:45 AM

With stuff like this, you get the worst of both worlds: bad policy and nobody falling for the faux populism. People outside of her base think of her as a phony who will say or do anything to get elected. As a result, when they hear her say stuff like this, they often hear someone thinking they are stupid enough to believe her BS.

Posted by Reality Man | May 5, 2008 2:51 AM

"It's sort of like Disneyland's Small, Small World---visit the four corners of the Extreme Internet within a single blogsite!"

Matt's new advertisement for the site!

Of course, people will be disappointed when they find it's the same loony-tunes from most of the other blog sites.

Nobody here reads HuffPo comments?

TPM has gotten fairly lame, although they still have a number of Zionist freakazoids. As long as Josh Marshall is a "crypto-Zionist", no doubt they will remain. Most of the smart people like Howard Berkowitz have deserted ship over there.

But Matt has one advantage! He has the ONLY radical Transhumanist commenter anywhere (that I know of, anyway)! Well, aside from Slashdot, where I post as well. I've been banned everywhere else - which is to say, TPM.

On point, this part from Clinton: "I know if we get it right, if we actually did it right, if we had a president who used all the tools of the presidency, we would design it in such a way that it would be implemented effectively."

It reminds me of a question the media asked her back in the health care plan days of the Clinton administration. She was asked something about revenue shortfalls or whatever, I think it was because there was a recession on, I forget the details. She simply blew it off: "There will be no shortfall". No facts, no evidence, just blew it off. It struck me as incredibly stupid and arrogant.

And so is this.

She's a corrupt liar who lies as readily as Bush and Cheney do.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | May 5, 2008 3:03 AM

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Posted by joejoejoe | May 5, 2008 3:12 AM

Hillary Clinton, 1/9/03: "I realize the President's economic advisors don't think long-term budget deficits are a problem, but just about every economist, textbook, policymaker, Wall Street analyst I've come across does."

Hillary Clinton, 8/8/07: "But instead of investing in the infrastructure of the future and growing our economy, we continue to make do. We patch and repair. We ignore the advice of our engineers, economists, businesses, unions, community leaders. We try to build our children's future with our grandparents' infrastructure. And we are falling further and further behind."

Hillary Clinton, 10/8/07: "I will also harness the power of innovation to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. This is a problem that if we don't deal with it we're going to be slowing our economic growth. Economists estimate that every $1 billion spent on fixing crumbling infrastructure creates nearly 48,000 new jobs. My Rebuild America Plan invests $10 billion over ten years in an "Emergency Repair Fund" to begin addressing the extensive backlog of emergency repairs needed in our country."

Hillary Clinton, 1/3/08: Barack Obama wins Iowa Caucus. Sen. Clinton finishes 3rd.

Hillary Clinton, 1/11/08: "If you’ve lost your job because construction has slowed down, you don’t care what the economists are talking about, do you? What you care about is who is going to help me?"

Posted by joejoejoe | May 5, 2008 3:33 AM

Hillary's not stupid enough to think the gas tax holiday will really work. This is just another demonstration that she's completely hollow at the core, and that the only thing real about her is her infinite craving for power and willingness to do anything to get it.

The worst part of it is the fake populist garbage about corporate lobbyists and "elites," when she has ROBERT FUCKING RUBIN (he of Citigroup and Goldman-Sachs) as her chief economic adviser. As somebody said, nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public, and she's betting on it.

Posted by Kevin Carson | May 5, 2008 3:36 AM

OH THE HUMANITY!!!!

Matt's ceaseless propaganda on behalf of Hussein has really become idiotic and tedious.
None of the candidates is offering anything like an honest budget.
Each of the candidates is making proposals which will explode the deficit.
Obama repeatedly lies about Iraq and his budget plans just like HRC does.
But we are to believe that HRC's campaign stupidities are somehow significantly worse than Hussein's?
HA HA HA!

Tell you what Matt, you need to start daily telling your readers just how much you want to increase the tax burden on working class Americans!
Go on, tell em how Obama thinks gas should be $9 gallon!
Tell em how Obama wants to raise their taxes by 20% to fund "progressive" schemes for social engineering, your plans for making us all eat our spinach.

But you better get used to it now:
Obama is spelled L - O - S - E - R!

Posted by JTHB | May 5, 2008 5:35 AM

Hillary just on Morning Joe, as well as Howard Wolfson, went to great lengths to point out that in addition to their gas-tax holiday, they've also got a long-term plan for energy independence. Looks to me like the issue's bombing bad for Hillary on the ground in Indiana if she and Howard are having to defend themselves on cable TV in the morning.

Posted by Zach | May 5, 2008 8:26 AM

Hillary's not stupid enough to think the gas tax holiday will really work. This is just another demonstration that she's completely hollow at the core, and that the only thing real about her is her infinite craving for power and willingness to do anything to get it.

Yes.

Posted by Arabella | May 5, 2008 8:41 AM

Re Hillary's comment "“Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.”
-------------
Needless to say, elite POLITICIANS are the same.
After all, how much money does the common citizen donate?
heh heh heh

Nevertheless, as I argued over a week ago, Obama's advisors are stepping in deep shit on this one.

The common citizens doesn't give a hairy rodent's posterior about "elite opinion" or economics -- he just sees that Hillary is offering him 19 cents per gallon cut on his gas bill and Obama is offering hot air.

An unbelievably STUPID position for Obama to take right before the North Carolina and Indiana primaries.

Yeah, the tax cut is trival. But if voters are trying to gauge who gives a shit about them, what are they going to go on?

Posted by Don Williams | May 5, 2008 8:52 AM

Plus Obama's staff is too fucking stupid to note that Hillary and John McCain have been national politicans for DECADES -- and have done NOTHING to address America's energy problem.

THAT's why the common citizen is in deep shit.
So why in the hell isn't Obama pounding the hell out of the rostrum?

I'm beginning to see why Republicans have concluded that Obama is a timid lightweight.
My anger is because I have been a strong Obama supporter. He is not just letting down himself -- he is letting down all the people he claims to be speaking for.

I'm getting that same sinking sensation I felt in the John Kerry campaign in 2004 -- you fight hard, you're kicking the shit out of the Republicans, victory is at hand, and suddenly you see your GENERAL waving the white flag.

Posted by Don Williams | May 5, 2008 9:00 AM

Don,

This is an interesting test case:

(1) The voters of IN and NC are smart enough to see through The Monster's pandering, thus demonstrating a sliver of hope for this nation's future, or

(2) The voters of IN and NC are stupid enough to fall for Hillary's gas tax holiday snake oil, in which case it will be demonstrated conclusively that Democracy in the United States truly is doomed.

Deeply cynical as I am, I'm voting on #1. Pandering works, up to a point. The mosnter is several miles past that point.

Posted by LarryM | May 5, 2008 9:00 AM

Back in '92, Bill Clinton ran ads bragging about how many Nobel prize winning economists endorsed his economic plan. It was actually one of his main talking points. And now to see Hillary do this... it's just pathetic.

Posted by RC | May 5, 2008 9:10 AM

MattY once wrote that he wondered why anyone bothered to read the comments on his blog at all. My only reaction was that the blog would really not be worth reading all that much if if the posts didn't come with comments from such an amusing crowd

Yeah- the comments are what really add value to the site. The posts they respond to are often a bit lazily written and half-baked (as their high volume would dictate I guess), and the comments complete them. Total greater than sum of parts, etc.

Posted by Waingro | May 5, 2008 9:17 AM

That's not elitism, that's reality, and what Clinton's selling is Bush-style misgovernment.

This is about the size of it. Americans are reaching a moment of truth as in do they want to continue to live the conventional lies that McCain and Hill are selling (ie more Bush happy slogans and patriotic panders) or are they brave enough to live with the truth that Obama stands for. It is not so much about the candidate himself, it is his supporters and their scientific no bullshit approach to reality that is the big difference.
America has been run by a president elected by the most irrational element in the US electorate for the last 8 years. Now the Democratic Party has a choice: do we go with our own bullshitter or do we go with a truth teller. The most rational segment of the electorate is in the Obama camp, the Paul Volkers of this world. Will America make a step in the right direction or has God truly left the USA to shower favors on another nation? We'll see.

Posted by Northern Observer | May 5, 2008 9:47 AM

I believe Hillary's tax holiday proposal is actually smart. It works this way: cancel the gas tax temporarily, in exchange for an oil producer special tax on profits. It looks pointless if you set the profit tax exactly to balance the gas tax. But actually, you have a knob to adjust now. You can tax more of the profits, for instance, so that you end up collecting more revenue from suspending the gas tax over the summer. Or you don't phase out the profit tax when you phase out the holiday. It's just an extra policy knob, an extra profit tax on producers, that congress will never give you, unless you package it with a gas holiday. What's wrong with that?

Exactly. Thanks, cedichou. It never fails to amaze me how clueless liberals can sometimes be. Hillary's proposal doesn't fit liberal orthodoxy, therefore it goes against "expert" opinion.

Well, some people sure think highly of themselves, don't they?

Posted by John Petty | May 5, 2008 11:30 AM

Hillary Clinton has been trying on personalities since the beginning of this election cycle. First, it was experienced policy wonk; then, after she shed a tear or two, it was working mom; then commander-in-chief; and now it's anti-intellectual faux populist heroine of the working class. Her latest attack on elites (as if she weren't one herself)is all part of her any-persona-that-will-work strategy of trying to win the nomination. Sadly, with Hillary, there's no there there--no core personality left. Or maybe there was never one there to begin with.

Posted by mbtogut | May 5, 2008 12:13 PM

cedichou,

Well said!

Posted by EWard | May 5, 2008 12:42 PM

Don: "I'm getting that same sinking sensation I felt in the John Kerry campaign in 2004 -- you fight hard, you're kicking the shit out of the Republicans, victory is at hand, and suddenly you see your GENERAL waving the white flag."

Wait until the Iran war starts.

Then you're REALLY going to see "Kerry vs Bush Redux".

How is Obama going to NOT support bombing the Iran that is "killing US soldiers in Iraq"?

Is he going to tell the US electorate that Bush and Cheney are actually doing this for Khuzestan oil, Israel and the military-industrial complex?

I think not.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | May 5, 2008 4:32 PM

The economists turned a blind eye to the subprime mortgage crisis. That system was based on greed. The so called "experts" were unaware of the housing crisis. Therefore, why would I trust their judgment about the gas tax?

Hillary is right! Most importantly, she has the backing of millions of Americans that are truckers, middle class families, and small business owners.

Posted by EWard | May 5, 2008 7:11 PM