McCain and Veterans

It's worth noting that not only did John McCain oppose Jim Webb's bill expanding educational benefits for veterans, but he has a long track record of fairly stingy behavior on veterans' issues. As Hilzoy puts it "McCain has supported basic appropriations for vets. However, when there are two competing proposals, he generally chooses the cheaper one, and often, when only one proposal to increase benefits is available, he opposes it."

One sort of wonders why this is. McCain's clearly not some kind of dogmatic libertarian, and he certainly seems to have a great deal of emotional attachment to the military. I believe the particular military family in which he grew up was a bit idiosyncratic in actually being composed of life-long military officers rather than veterans (Webb, by contrast, is also from a military family and is clearly very influenced by his military background but after graduating from the academy put his time in then took advantage of veterans' benefits to move on to other things) as such. Or maybe he just takes very seriously the idea that we can't make the benefits too generous lest it undermine our ability to endlessly prolong the war in Iraq.

Comments

McCain's alternative bill threw the emphasis much more at re-signers and potential lifers. He's a lifer, he grew up around lifers, and I suspect that he has a distaste for those who leave after five or six years, even with an actual war and stop-loss, etc.

In fact, that's probably a question for some enterprising journalist: does he think that those who only serve the minimum, then go into reserve duty, are just greedy bastards who do it for the college tuition, and aren't as committed to the services as he was?

maybe he just takes very seriously the idea that we can't make the benefits too generous lest it undermine our ability to endlessly prolong the war in Iraq.

McCain's entire politics is refracted through a martial prism. Simple as that. He wants people to be warriors. He's Victor Davis Handjob without the veneer of classical erudition.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 25, 2008 9:57 AM

From this poor retired E-6s perspective, it is because John McCain is a rich, retired O-6 married to a multimillionaire.

My retiremnet pay: Appx $1500/month.
His retirement pay: Appx $6500/month.

And he's a golddigger.

Its the "I got mine, fuck you" attitude that is the cornerstone of the Republican Party.

Posted by calipygian | May 25, 2008 9:57 AM

Can we focus for a minute on the fact that McCain condescendingly lectured Obama about how Obama never served so he doesn't know what he's talking about and about how bad the Webb bill was for the military and the country and about how being president is all about taking unpopular positions....and then he proceeded to skip the vote so he wasn't on record taking an unpopular position. If the bill is so bad for the country, get on the floor and vote your freakin' conscience you hypocrite! Any other pol would get slayed for that.

Posted by Led | May 25, 2008 10:23 AM

McCain and Webb seem to view the military differently--McCain as an instrument and Webb as an institution, a culture. That difference may underlie the differences in their approach to the welfare of active duty personnel and veterans.

Posted by THS | May 25, 2008 10:30 AM

What are the democrats planning to cut to pay for the expanded benefits? This isn't just a war issue but an issue of long term personnel funding.

Posted by Helter | May 25, 2008 11:04 AM

Yeah, I'm with McCain on this one. The increase in spending the new bill would cause is ridiculous.

Thank god Bush will veto this.

Posted by thehova | May 25, 2008 11:12 AM

"What are the democrats planning to cut to pay for the expanded benefits?"

Presumably, they're planning to pay for it by ending the useless and futile US military occupation of Iraq.

Posted by Joel | May 25, 2008 11:18 AM

the particular military family in which he grew up was a bit idiosyncratic in actually being composed of life-long military officers rather than veterans

Its the "I got mine, fuck you" attitude that is the cornerstone of the Republican Party.

Class divisions in the military between officers and enlisted! Who'd have thought it?

Posted by Kalkin | May 25, 2008 11:30 AM

McCain wasn't just an officer, he was in military terms royalty.

His grandfather was an Admiral, and his father was an Admiral. He went to a private, well-to-do prep school and Annapolis. He was given medical treatment by the NV after his shoot-down, because his father was in charge of Naval forces in the Pacific.

McCain probably had little or contact with the average Navy seaman. He was a pilot and later Navy liasion to the US Senate, His whole life has been the military and moving in elite circles.

Posted by rcocean | May 25, 2008 11:47 AM

what are the democrats planning to cut to pay for the extended benefits?

The Republican giveaway to their corrupt cronies of hardworking American taxpayer money?

Posted by Stefan | May 25, 2008 12:05 PM

MY - Or maybe he just takes very seriously the idea that we can't make the benefits too generous lest it undermine our ability to endlessly prolong the war in Iraq.

That hints at the truth. McCain saw both the Draftee military and the Volunteer military in his time in service and unlike Webb, he has a deep commitment to not destroying the volunteer military by encouraging more people to leave it for overly generous benefits for minimal time of service.

The GI Bill of WWII was intended as a way to get droves of people (9 million) out of the military and soon employed in the high skill jobs the post-WWII economy needed. With just a small residual force of 400,000 or so to do the Occupation. But the people behind the GI BIll and other rapid military downsizing measures underestimated the post-WWII security requirements and we went right back into a peacetime Draft because we encouraged too much demobilization. Sadly, the Drafts also discriminated by selecting those with critical skills - nurses, tank mechanics, those with past combat experience (in the Korea Wars direst months).

Webb is fixated on "more benefits" for those of his class. Not so much on McCain's objective of maintaining a healthy, viable volunteer force so we do not have to be forced back to The Draft by ideas like Webb's (Webb has written that he favors a Draft so the "privileged" are forced to serve).

McCain is right on this one.

As a former volunteer military man, and Gulf War Vet - I was given many opportunities to stay in for some great educational opportunities - Masters, work with R&D teams at some of the best universities for college credit, becoming a cutting edge expert on Chinese electronic nets with a 6-figure contractor salary or ready promotion within the ranks a possibility. However......Those opportunities were always linked to America not giving away something for nothing. They were linked to agreeing to more years of national service.
I only extended to finish out the Gulf War and 3 post-war months to await and train my replacement and turn over my Division - but many of my peers who could have gotten out back in the early 90s stayed in purely for education and promotion, and are still serving. Two made 0-8 selection board to General.

Posted by chris ford | May 25, 2008 12:14 PM

Uhm........This is why I struggle to vote Democrat. How could you question McCain's dedication to those who have served? Thanks for leaving out all the accomplishments McCain has made for vet's.

Posted by Kristofer | May 25, 2008 12:20 PM

"How could you question McCain's dedication to those who have served? Thanks for leaving out all the accomplishments McCain has made for vet's."

Because in politics you don't rack up credit on your account, you actually have to make good decisions when the opportunities arise.

Posted by cletus | May 25, 2008 12:46 PM

Re Chris Ford's comment "Those opportunities were always linked to America not giving away something for nothing. They were linked to agreeing to more years of national service."
--------------
So how many years in the military did those investment bankers on Wall Street sign up for in exchange for that $200 Billion bailout?

Posted by Don Williams | May 25, 2008 12:47 PM

chris ford:
Are you saying Webb is full of shit? It sounds like you have no clue what Webb is trying to accomplish. But then that is to be expected coming from the resident Republican troll.

Posted by Joe Klein's conscience | May 25, 2008 12:51 PM

Re Chris Ford's comment "As a former volunteer military man, and Gulf War Vet - I was given many opportunities to stay in for some great educational opportunities - Masters, work with R&D teams at some of the best universities for college credit, becoming a cutting edge expert on Chinese electronic nets with a 6-figure contractor salary or ready promotion within the ranks a possibility. "
----------------
Really? I find that fascinating.

Because a few years after the Gulf War, roughly 40 percent of the Army were thrown out on the streets. People like combat vet and Bronze Star winner Timothy McVeigh. And marksman John Mohammad (the DC Sniper).

25 percent of the Intel Community was tossed out as well.

There are always small cliques that make out well. The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) , for example, used a budget scam to built a hugely ornate, $500 Million office complex out in Fairfax County outside Washington DC. At a time when Army enlisted families were being told to apply for food stamps.

Circa 1996?, the Director of the NRO and Deputy Director were both relieved of command after Congress discovered they had salted away $3+ Billion in a hidden slush fund. The Director then took a high paying executive job at a subsidy jointly owned by the two largest intelligence contractors.

I know of one Air Force officer who made Major General but was never, to the best of my knowledge, within 1000 miles of an active battlefield. I worked for his organization when he was a colonel -- and I was told how he got those stars.

Notice how we could look at those tents on the Afghanistan plains in 1999. We just didn't know WHO was in those tents. And what they were planning.

The same people who protected their rice bowls during the 1990s cutbacks found those rice bowls got MUCH bigger after Sept 11.

AMAZING how you can make a lot more money by fixing Trainwrecks than by making the trains run on time.

Even if some unkind critics might argue that you helped cause the trainwreck.

Also amazing how often the trains run off the rails.

Posted by Don Williams | May 25, 2008 1:06 PM

Re Kristofer's comment "How could you question McCain's dedication to those who have served? "
-------------
As rcocean noted above, McCain was military royalty. His path in the Navy smoothed by a father and grandfather who were Admirals.

He was a Naval Aviator -- guys who think those carriers and 1000s of personal are only there to make them look good.

He was NAVY -- a service which has not suffered serious casualties in over 60 years. Unlike the Army. Unlike the Marines.

How many capital ships did Ho Chi Minh sink? How many did Saddam Hussein bag?

Jim Webb was a MARINE and a highly decorated Vietnam vet. I suspect he's just itching to cut pretty flyboy McCain off at the knees.

Posted by Don Williams | May 25, 2008 1:21 PM

Don,nice,My buddies dad just went to his reunion
of the flight class before Mcain's, I asked him if you crash in flight school,can you still graduate?, My buddie said yeah if your dad and grandfather were Admirals, Ask yourself this if the Navy would not make this guy an Admrial, Why would anyone make him Commander and Chief of it?
I would vote for the Devil himself before I would vote for this guy. The fourfather's should have put a rule in the Constitution about being born in a diffrent country, Oh wait they did.

Posted by RaferJanders | May 25, 2008 3:40 PM

Don,nice,My buddies dad just went to his reunion
of the flight class before Mcain's, I asked him if you crash in flight school,can you still graduate?, My buddie said yeah if your dad and grandfather were Admirals, Ask yourself this if the Navy would not make this guy an Admrial, Why would anyone make him Commander and Chief of it?
I would vote for the Devil himself before I would vote for this guy. The fourfather's should have put a rule in the Constitution about being born in a diffrent country, Oh wait they did.

Posted by RaferJanders | May 25, 2008 3:41 PM

If you think McCain is a military elitist then check out Webb's wickipedia entry. The truth is I respect both men, and I also think both proposals have merit, and we all know McCain's version is designed to reward people who elect to stay in, its that simple. What I do have a problem with is B.O.'s using it to claim McCain is opposing it for the same reasons Bush is...not true. I think if he keeps harping about McCain being Bush 3 people are going to start to see he is nothing more Carter 2.

Posted by Larry delisle | May 25, 2008 4:21 PM

This issue seems like a classic case of political gotcha. Webb proposes gold-plated veterans benefits that no one can seriously deny provides a positive disincentive for re-enlistment. No matter. Jim Webb knows Bush will veto this so Webb and the Demc can propose it risk free. But the Dems get a free whack at McCain and other responsible senators who have to vote against it. This whole thing is about the Dems handing themselves a club by which to claim they are more pro-veteran than McCain and the Republicans.

McCain versus Obama is the difference between governing and politicking.

Posted by Bill | May 25, 2008 6:54 PM

This issue seems like a classic case of political gotcha. Webb proposes gold-plated veterans benefits that no one can seriously deny provides a positive disincentive for re-enlistment. No matter. Jim Webb knows Bush will veto this so Webb and the Demc can propose it risk free. But the Dems get a free whack at McCain and other responsible senators who have to vote against it. This whole thing is about the Dems handing themselves a club by which to claim they are more pro-veteran than McCain and the Republicans.

McCain versus Obama is the difference between mature governing and juvenile politicking.

Posted by Bill | May 25, 2008 6:54 PM

This issue seems like a classic case of political gotcha. Webb proposes gold-plated veterans benefits that no one can seriously deny provides a positive disincentive for re-enlistment. No matter. Jim Webb knows Bush will veto this so Webb and the Demc can propose it risk free. But the Dems get a free whack at McCain and other responsible senators who have to vote against it. This whole thing is about the Dems handing themselves a club by which to claim they are more pro-veteran than McCain and the Republicans.

McCain versus Obama is the difference between mature governing and juvenile politicking.

Posted by Bill | May 25, 2008 6:54 PM

Think Obama heard much concern for veterans' benefits expressed over the arugula in Bill Ayers' salon in Hyde Park? Or in Rev. Wright's church?

Obama wants to gold plate veterans' benefits to get these kids out of the military as fast as he can. That will prevent them from becoming biiter, religious, gun-clingers and will expedite Obama's back-to-the-future military policy of the 70's -- race wars on aircraft carriers, rampant drug use, and chronic readiness issues.

Posted by Bill45 | May 25, 2008 7:02 PM

This is rich. The "support the troops" trolls are in here claiming that actually REWARDING the troops for their service either 1) costs too much, or 2) will encourage them to stop getting killed in pointless wars.

The bottom line: if the US wasn't an imperialist, criminal enterprise, just enough US soldiers would be needed to DEFEND - read that word again, assholes - DEFEND - this country, not run all over the planet killing brown people.

And that means the cost of paying them decently equivalent to a free market job wouldn't break the bank.

Not to mention that we wouldn't have given another 20-30,000 troops crippling injuries, and another 300,000 troops PTSD and another 300,000 serious mental problems which will cost the government and society billions over the next twenty years

Meanwhile, these fucktards like McCain and Chris Ford want to start ANOTHER war with Iran to up the US military body count EVEN MORE - all to enable their corporate cronies to continue to suck in the taxpayer dollars while rewarding these politicians with bribes and campaign money so they can continue to start wars.

McCain is a fucking asshole, and so is Chris Ford. Both of them need to stick their dicks in their mouths and STFU.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | May 25, 2008 7:13 PM

"Or maybe he just takes very seriously the idea that we can't make the benefits too generous lest it undermine our ability to endlessly prolong the war in Iraq." That is a very funny line. Good for an ironic laugh on SNL. I suspect you really believe that, which is even more amusing. The last I looked, the war in Iraq is almost over. That will free us up to do the Mullahs in Teheran or the Dentist in Damascus, and you get to write another extended snivel gram. Life's good.

Posted by Don | May 25, 2008 8:47 PM

McCain versus Obama is the difference between mature governing and juvenile politicking.

John McCain will put the national interest ahead of partisanship, he will work with anyone who sincerely wants to get this country moving again. If John McCain is elected President, the era of the permanent campaign will end. The era of problem solving will begin.

Wheee!

Posted by scythia | May 25, 2008 9:35 PM

"(Webb, by contrast, is also from a military family and is clearly very influenced by his military background but after graduating from the academy put his time in then took advantage of veterans' benefits to move on to other things)"

Webb actually planned to make a career out of the Marine Corps, but the lingering effects of wounds received in Viet Nam (particularly a heavy dose of shrapnel in one of his knees, which he got during the action for which he received his Navy Cross) forced him into a medical retirement. The MC wanted to retire him in mid-1971, but he fought the bureaucracy hard and they gave him an extra year to clear up his knee trouble. However, by mid-1972 he knew the game was up and reluctantly accepted retirement at the rank of Captain. His veteran benefits paid for law school at Georgetown.

Posted by A.B. | May 25, 2008 10:10 PM

The bill will reduce retention but it will increase recruitment more. The issue McCain claims to have with it lowering overall manpower is not valid. For an informative compendium of information about the bill see here.

Posted by bemused | May 25, 2008 10:11 PM

Don: "The last I looked, the war in Iraq is almost over. That will free us up to do the Mullahs in Teheran or the Dentist in Damascus, and you get to write another extended snivel gram. Life's good."

Life will be good when your stupid ass is sent to Iraq or Iran and gets blown up by an IED. That will make my day.

Moron troll.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | May 26, 2008 12:36 AM

Okay, since McCain severed in the military nobody can question his decision making on veteran's benefits. Ridiculous.

Obama has as much a right to comment on this as he does. His grandfather served in WWII and the GI bill helped him raise Obama's mom. Of course McCain doesn't care about today's veterans. He doesn't have to live paycheck to paycheck. He just relies on Cindy, the inevitable elitist beer tycoon and her proceeds from the sale of stock in Sudan companies supporting genocide in Darfur.

Posted by whoknows | May 26, 2008 1:21 AM

Okay, since McCain severed in the military nobody can question his decision making on veteran's benefits. Ridiculous.

Obama has as much a right to comment on this as he does. His grandfather served in WWII and the GI bill helped him raise Obama's mom. Of course McCain doesn't care about today's veterans. He doesn't have to live paycheck to paycheck. He just relies on Cindy, the inevitable elitist beer tycoon and her proceeds from the sale of stock in Sudan companies supporting genocide in Darfur.

Posted by whoknows | May 26, 2008 1:22 AM

Okay, since McCain severed in the military nobody can question his decision making on veteran's benefits. Ridiculous.

Obama has as much a right to comment on this as he does. His grandfather served in WWII and the GI bill helped him raise Obama's mom. Of course McCain doesn't care about today's veterans. He doesn't have to live paycheck to paycheck. He just relies on Cindy, the inevitable elitist beer tycoon and her proceeds from the sale of stock in Sudan companies supporting genocide in Darfur.

Posted by whoknows | May 26, 2008 1:22 AM

Democrats: Let's help out the troops.

GOP: Partisanship! Class warfare! Too expensive!

Democrats: Let's have a timetable to bring our troops home.

GOP: You hate the troops!

Posted by Reality Man | May 26, 2008 2:21 AM

Re Richard Steven Hack

Actually, Syrian president Bashar Assad is an ophthalmologist, not a dentist. He was trained in Great Britain and actually practiced there for a while before being called home by his father when his older brother died in an automobile accident.

Posted by SLC | May 26, 2008 9:22 AM

This whole thing is about the Dems handing themselves a club by which to claim they are more pro-veteran than McCain and the Republicans.

Spoken like a troop hating tool who hasn't served a day in his life, yet enjoys patronizing the people who do with a hearty "thank you for your service" before adding under his breath, "sucker".

Just like everyone at the National Review Online, the Weekly Standard and the Office of the Vice President.

Posted by calipygian | May 26, 2008 10:27 AM

What everyone seems to ignore is that the military presently cries out for quality recruits, to the extent of forcing admission standards down to a level not known since the height of the Vietnam War. Minor felonies, abuse of hard drugs, inability to pass a GED - no worries. McDonald's may not trust you to manage a deep fryer, but I'll hand you a rifle. What sense does this make?

If rotating people out every four years is that much of a problem for our strategy - and here I was, thinking that we'd turned a corner in the last throes on dead-enders or something - then maybe we need to rethink the whole enterprise, right down to the notion of the all-volunteer, professional military.

General Abrams redesigned the force concept of the military after Vietnam, making it virtually impossible to go to war without calling up elements of the National Guard and Reserves where essential warfighting expertise was segregated from the active-duty component. He did this, to make sure that we wouldn't fight another unpopular war with an active-duty force that no one cared about, until the draft boards started sending reluctant citizens to boot camp. We should be investing in people who put their lives on the line for us, while being paid less money than someone of equivalent experience in a cell-phone kiosk. Four years of service is a standard term of enlistment, and during that period, most can expect at least one year somewhere in the sandbox where people are maimed or killed. Four years is enough of a return that we can give back something of consequence in appreciation.

Posted by John Thompson | May 28, 2008 9:10 PM

Posted by Kristofer . . . "How could you question McCain's dedication to those who have served? Thanks for leaving out all the accomplishments McCain has made for vet's."
Well . . .

If there are any veterans out there who are supporting John McCain, maybe you can tell me why he has consistently voted against veterans. His Voting Record on Veteran's Issues is dismal.
John McCain has voted "NO" (or no show) on the following Senate votes with respect to Iraq, funding for veterans or for troops, including equipment and armor.
Every Senate vote below has a link to the actual U.S. Senate Roll Call Vote . . . just go to www.johnmcclainin2008.com/issues.php to see the link for that vote.
• On May 22, 2008: The new 21st Century GI Bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 75-22 (See the actual U.S. Senate Roll Call Vote) and John McCain decided to go on the Ellen DeGeneres Show and then attend a fund raiser for his own campaign at an event held by the San Diego Chargers owner instead of showing up to vote. From the beginning, John McCain strongly argued against the Bill and refused to sign onto it. John McCain was absent and ALL 22 NAY votes were cast by Republican Senators.
• September 2007: John McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments.
• May 2006: John McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.
• April 2006: John McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
• March 2006: John McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
• March 2004: John McCain voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes.
• October 2003: John McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000, 000.
• April 2003: John McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.
Nobody should question his patriotism, but being a veteran, an ex-POW, and a man who loves his country, does not qualify him to be president. It gives him the right to apply for the job, but it is up to the citizens of the United States to decide if they want to hire him.
As a veteran, I am disappointed with his non-support of veterans.
RoMax - Disabled - Vietnam ’67-‘68
In support of ALL veterans!

Posted by Rob | May 30, 2008 10:04 AM

Posted by Kristofer . . . "How could you question McCain's dedication to those who have served? Thanks for leaving out all the accomplishments McCain has made for vet's."
Well . . .

If there are any veterans out there who are supporting John McCain, maybe you can tell me why he has consistently voted against veterans. His Voting Record on Veteran's Issues is dismal.
John McCain has voted "NO" (or no show) on the following Senate votes with respect to Iraq, funding for veterans or for troops, including equipment and armor.
Every Senate vote below has a link to the actual U.S. Senate Roll Call Vote . . . just go to www.johnmcclainin2008.com/issues.php to see the link for that vote.
• On May 22, 2008: The new 21st Century GI Bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 75-22 (See the actual U.S. Senate Roll Call Vote) and John McCain decided to go on the Ellen DeGeneres Show and then attend a fund raiser for his own campaign at an event held by the San Diego Chargers owner instead of showing up to vote. From the beginning, John McCain strongly argued against the Bill and refused to sign onto it. John McCain was absent and ALL 22 NAY votes were cast by Republican Senators.
• September 2007: John McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments.
• May 2006: John McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.
• April 2006: John McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
• March 2006: John McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
• March 2004: John McCain voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes.
• October 2003: John McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000, 000.
• April 2003: John McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.
Nobody should question his patriotism, but being a veteran, an ex-POW, and a man who loves his country, does not qualify him to be president. It gives him the right to apply for the job, but it is up to the citizens of the United States to decide if they want to hire him.
As a veteran, I am disappointed with his non-support of veterans.
RoMax - Disabled - Vietnam ’67-‘68
In support of ALL veterans!

Posted by Rob | May 30, 2008 10:07 AM