Obama's Uncle at Auschwitz

[Matt]

Let me just say that I think it's a sad day for America when partisanship and a desire to bring down Barack Obama has led conservatives to demand that the Red Army's work in defeating Hitler and liberating concentration camps obtain sufficient recognition. Everybody knows that the idea of the pristine and wholly virtuous war in which American force of arms, with an assist from Winston Churchill's moral clarity, stopped Hitler's war machine is among the most cherished myths of our nation. Discussion of the Eastern Front is to be avoided at all costs!

Surely preserving this principle is reason enough to let Obama off the hook. We can't have people running around believing that the Greatest Generation was a greatest generation of Communists!

Comments

I suspect either (1) the underlying Communism of today's so-called right is coming to the fore or (2) they are trying to actually tag Obama's uncle as a commie and hence Obama by association.

Actually both could be true. The right always projects doesn't it? So this could be a bunch of people who are subconsciously Stalinists projecting and thinking Obama's a Commie and trying to smear him that way.

Posted by DAS | May 27, 2008 2:38 PM

I suspect either (1) the underlying Communism of today's so-called right is coming to the fore or (2) they are trying to actually tag Obama's uncle as a commie and hence Obama by association.

Better go actually read the linked NRO post before you take Matt's commentary at face value.

Posted by James Gary | May 27, 2008 2:43 PM

You know you're on vacation when you're mocking The Corner. That's the lowest hanging fruit there is.

Posted by JH | May 27, 2008 2:45 PM

I guess Hemingway forgot that Ronald Reagan told Menachem Begin that he had personally helped liberate the death camps--when in fact he'd only personally helped make a propaganda newsreel about doing so on a Hollywood lot.

Further proof of the Wingnuts' worst nightmare: Obama as the second coming of Reagan! (But such small potatoes--not like the original master!)

Posted by elle loco | May 27, 2008 2:48 PM

You're missing the point. Obama's relative couldn't have liberated Ausschwitz because it was liberated by the Red Army. Presumably this guy was, like most Americans, fighting in the West. Maybe he liberated Dachau or something. Either way, it's probably a fairly benign mistake.

Posted by tom | May 27, 2008 2:51 PM

May be Harvard should give remedial lessons in history, speaking and spelling to its more well known graduates so they do not spoil the image of the august institution.

Posted by gregor | May 27, 2008 2:52 PM

Better go actually read the linked NRO post before you take Matt's commentary at face value. - James Gary

Ummm ... I did that. Whence my comment about their strategy being that of painting Obama('s uncle) as a commie.

Posted by DAS | May 27, 2008 2:58 PM

Matt isn't misinterpreting the criticism of Obama's claim that his uncle personally helped liberate Auschwitz and Treblinka, and he isn't missing the point. He's simply pretending not to get the point that Obama has been caught lying, and trying to discredit the truth by disingenuously pretending to believe that the people who point out that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz are doing so because they are pro-Communist. Don't misunderestimate Matt's commitment to partisan dishonesty.

Posted by Gary Imhoff | May 27, 2008 3:15 PM

It wasn't Begin whom Reagan told his "I liberated Auchswitz" story to. It was then Israeli PM Yitzchak Shamir. RR might have told Begin that he shot down the Hindenberg.

Posted by Trevor | May 27, 2008 3:18 PM

Obama really is the next Reagan!

Recall that ol' Dutch frequently made arguments about history based on movies he half-recalled. He thought he'd liberated concentration camps.

Posted by TW Andrews | May 27, 2008 3:19 PM

I'm confused. Are we supposed to afraid of communists or terrorists these days?

It's important to keep your bogeymen straight.

Posted by Brautigan | May 27, 2008 3:22 PM

"He's simply pretending not to get the point that Obama has been caught lying, and trying to discredit the truth by disingenuously pretending to believe that the people who point out that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz are doing so because they are pro-Communist."

Now getting a bit confused on details is lying? Farkin' A!

Posted by Kurzbein | May 27, 2008 3:23 PM

I'm confused. Are we supposed to afraid of communists or terrorists these days?

It's important to keep your bogeymen straight.

Posted by Brautigan | May 27, 2008 3:26 PM

Maybe he liberated Dachau or something. Either way, it's probably a fairly benign mistake.
Posted by tom

No, it's Black Messiah lying, not making a mistake. Not as bad as Hillary's "in-your-face" witnessing "I was there braving sniper fire in Tuzla" but Obama accompanied that lie with other lies.
1. His grandfather heard from fellow troops that liberated Auschwitz and Treblinka. No, it was the Soviets, and Treblinka was a year-long abandoned death camp when the Soviets got there.
2. His grandfather patriotically volunteered the day after Pearl Harbor.
No, records show he was Drafted on June 18th, 1942.

He's (MY) simply pretending not to get the point that Obama has been caught lying, and trying to discredit the truth by disingenuously pretending to believe that the people who point out that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz are doing so because they are pro-Communist. Don't misunderestimate Matt's commitment to partisan dishonesty.
Posted by Gary Imhoff

Precisely. And in doing so, Yglesias stays true to his Jewish Bolshevik ancestor's prediliction for disinformation propaganda to serve the "cause".

Posted by chris ford | May 27, 2008 3:26 PM

Not to rain on this lovely parade, but maybe we ought to hear a few more details about this (Which uncle? What unit was he attached to? When was this supposed to have happened? Did Obama hear about it from the uncle?) before shrieking accusations of intentional dishonesty. Note that unlike the Clinton airport sniper tale, or the Reagan liberation story, this is not something Obama was claiming he saw personally.

Posted by jimBOB | May 27, 2008 3:28 PM

So Obama is supposed to vet his uncle's war stories now?

Christ, you people are dumber than I thought.

Posted by Andy | May 27, 2008 3:31 PM

Obama is confused on precisely which concentration camp his uncle helped to liberate 63 years ago (17 years before Obama himself was born). McCain is deeply confused about who the USA is fighting in Iraq right now. Advantage Obama, no ?

And that's before we even get to Bush/McCain's theory of supporting the troops by making sure they don't have good enough educational benefits to leave the military and go to college once their term is up.

Posted by Richard Cownie | May 27, 2008 3:32 PM

So Obama can simultaneously be a closet Muslim and a godless Communist? Awesome.

Posted by Tel | May 27, 2008 3:34 PM

Gary Imhoff says: "He's simply pretending not to get the point that Obama has been caught lying, and trying to discredit the truth by disingenuously pretending to believe that the people who point out that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz are doing so because they are pro-Communist."

How is Obama repeating a "family legend" now called "lying"? So the family got the camp wrong - who seriously gives a fuck?

I know that all "movement conservatives" have been driven batshit crazy by the imminent demise of their idiotic cabal, and that most of them are dumber than a bag of guano to begin with, but this latest attempt at "gotcha" is dumb even by their lower-than-a-maggot standards.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | May 27, 2008 3:36 PM

his uncle personally helped liberate Auschwitz and Treblinka

Treblinka? Now I gotta admit that is a bit of a whopper, since Treblinka was dissolved by the Nazis themselves in 1943 following a revolt.

Posted by novakant | May 27, 2008 3:36 PM

He's simply pretending not to get the point that Obama has been caught lying, and trying to discredit the truth by disingenuously pretending to believe that the people who point out that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz are doing so because they are pro-Communist.

My hypothesis is simpler: Matt, vacationing on a sunny beach somewhere, had a few too many cocktails at lunch and banged out what he thought would be an breezily-ironic post--which some excessively partisan comment-writers from both ends of the political spectrum have (due to a certain alcohol-induced ambiguity in the original text) decided to take at face value.

Posted by James Gary | May 27, 2008 3:37 PM

Gary Imhoff falsely states: Don't misunderestimate Matt's commitment to partisan dishonesty.

I've been reading MattY for years, and the exact opposite is true. Not only is he completely honest, but so is Obama. You just need the adjust your perception of reality in order to see that. Don't worry, starting in February there will be classes everyone will have to take in order to adjust their reality to match Obama's.

Posted by TLB | May 27, 2008 3:43 PM

The orginal post that NRO links to is hilarious.

The guy eventually concedes that there is nothing major here, Obama likely just said the wrong camp. But he ends by saying the press needs to hold Obama to the same standard on this type of thign that they do Conservatives. Really? If I'm Obama I leap at the offer, I can have the same press treatment as McCain? Where do I sign up...

Posted by eric k | May 27, 2008 3:44 PM

I'm as big an Obama supporter as it comes but it better be that he said Auschwitz when he meant Buchenwald or another camp or else this may turn out to be like Hillary's sniper fire debacle.

Posted by Purview | May 27, 2008 3:45 PM

Ooops! Shamir, then. Thanks, Trevor. Senior moment.

Gary Imhoff, I demand that you address Ronald Reagan's egregious lies! Let's take back the last 26 years of history on that account--I want a do-over, dammit!

Woof, woof!

Posted by elle loco | May 27, 2008 3:46 PM

Oh, hell. Now you've gotten the WWII battle geeks all a'stirred.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 3:48 PM

"So Obama can simultaneously be a closet Muslim and a godless Communist? Awesome."

But wait, there's more. He's also a radical Christian from the Black Liberation Theology movement. And an elitist to boot.

In the end, I'm with JimBOB on this. A little more detail would be nice. I think everyone's family has some old stories whose details have drifted over the years. I know my family has stories that have turned out not to be true. The lesson here is that you can't always trust your mother. But I have to wonder why Obama's speechwriters didn't vet the story better.

Posted by fostert | May 27, 2008 3:50 PM

Purview:

Reapeating a story your great uncle told you about the war is on the same level as Hillary claiming to have been under sniper fire 15 years ago, and then repeating the story several times? That is taking false equivilency to the Nth degree.

Posted by eric k | May 27, 2008 3:51 PM

Somthing that Matt finds very, very hard to deal with:

--"The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend"

In particular, applying this to Iran and Sunni groups makes his head explode. However, it's nice to know that seeing the USSR as the lesser of two evils in 1941 (while still evil) is also mostly beyond him

Posted by James Robertson | May 27, 2008 3:52 PM

P.S. It's been awfully fun to see the Obamatologists responding to this recent lie. In their world, an increase and a "doubling" are the same. Or, maybe he's got an inside source for FBI stats that won't be released until the Fall. Or, "any increase is too much". Or, the one 'tologist who just left a comment saying "Go [blank] yourselves".

It'd all be too funny if I didn't get the same feeling as when I watched the other 'tologists going to work in the morning.

Posted by TLB | May 27, 2008 3:56 PM

Thanks MY, this was a funny post.

Sigh at all the commenters who are rambling about dishonest politicians, in reference to a post that was simply mocking how so much of the pundit class and conservatives generally ignore the overwhelming contribution Russia made to the end of World War 2.

Posted by Shock Mouse | May 27, 2008 3:56 PM

So Obama is supposed to vet his uncle's war stories now?

Christ, you people are dumber than I thought.

Obama's mother was an only child. His father's tribesmen never set foot in Europe (except to go to East Germany for schooling after the war).

I think we should start by asking Obama a very simply question: what uncle?

Posted by Bob Owens | May 27, 2008 3:56 PM

Not to mention that no one is accusing Obama of being a "Red" - people are accusing him of being shameless for claiming that his grandfather helped liberate Auschwitz. The point being, his grandfather would have had to have been in the Red Army for that to be possible. But hey - excellent try at deflection, Matt!

Posted by James Robertson | May 27, 2008 3:57 PM

What is missing here is the fact that for most Americans, Ausschwitz is the only Nazi camp they know by name (that is, if they know any camps at all). If Obama said that his uncle liberated Dachau, for example, most people would have no clue what the hell he is talking about.

Posted by MS | May 27, 2008 3:59 PM

Would be a clever observation if Matt hadn't often taken the same kind of inane cheap shots at candidates he didn't support. Instead it's just hypocrisy.

Posted by Decided | May 27, 2008 4:00 PM

Incidentally, in addition to saving civilization during WW2, America -- under the leadership of Woodrow Wilson and Howard Creel -- also won the First World War. Bet you didn't know that.

Between August, 1914, and June, 1918, the French and British and Italians helped. Gosh; it was a little like holding a place for a friend while standing on line to see a film, wasn't it?

And, we sold them lots of stuff and loaned them lots of money, too. So (as Barbara Bush would say), it all "worked out very well".

I'm sure any of the 54,000-plus people whose names are on the Menin Gate would agree...

Posted by Jemand von Niemand | May 27, 2008 4:04 PM

James Robertson shows the point of both the post and the comments (both left and right) flew over his head.

""So Obama can simultaneously be a closet Muslim and a godless Communist? Awesome."

But wait, there's more. He's also a radical Christian from the Black Liberation Theology movement. And an elitist to boot."

And a drug dealer! And a Jew! (after all, wasn't it in NRO where that one writer said in her day the only time white women married black men was when the women were Jewish and they met at Communist Party meetings?).

He's both matter and anti-matter! Ka-Boom!

Posted by Reality Man | May 27, 2008 4:05 PM

Maybe Obama was just bringing it up in order to emphasize June.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 4:07 PM

Calling this a "lie" is silly. It's a dumb mistake.

Obama isn't a liar (about this, anyway), he's just a moron. Now, it was a little more obvious that Obama is a moron when he was spouting off about how the USA has 57 states, but this makes it pretty clear too. It's a shame this country is going to be led for the next eight years by a moron.

Posted by Al | May 27, 2008 4:09 PM

Yeah, the former editor of the Harvard Law Review is a moron. Meanwhile, Al thinks the guy who thinks flight attendants take of from airports like airplanes and that people serve food on their families is a military genius.

Posted by Reality Man | May 27, 2008 4:16 PM

It's a shame this country is going to be led for the next eight years by a moron.

Posted by Al

If, instead of Barack Obama, the leading Democratic candidate had been a bag of beef -- and I mean the cheap, nitrites-laced crap, not the all-natural good stuff -- jerky, it would still represent an intellectual improvement of revolutionary proportions when compared with the Bush Jr Mafia of Idiotards.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 4:18 PM

Obama's mother was an only child. His father's tribesmen never set foot in Europe (except to go to East Germany for schooling after the war).

I think we should start by asking Obama a very simply question: what uncle?

Seriously? People often refer to older male relatives as uncles, even if they are not specifically a parent's brother. He is probably referring to a great uncle (if the story was told by his mother that would be her uncle), or at least someone of his grandfather's generation, since that is the generation in his family that fought in WWII. Then again, by the standards set for Obama, referring to his great uncle as an uncle is an egregious, unforgivable lie that proves he is unfit for the presidency.

Posted by ibid | May 27, 2008 4:18 PM

Bob,

As even the right wingers who started this whole topic acknowledge, his great uncle fought in WW II.

Posted by eric k | May 27, 2008 4:18 PM

My mother once told me that father was part of the effort to document death camp atrocities for the Nuremberg Trials. (At one point, there were hundreds of pictures of the camps in a box in the back of a drawer of clothes in their bedroom. I'd asked the obvious question of her, "What are these things?")

If it turns out that he had nothing to do with documenting the atrocities and had simply ghoulishly taken the photographs home from Europe with him, would I have been a liar for repeating her story? Of course not. I've never checked. I've never needed to. It's not the kind of story that needs checking.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | May 27, 2008 4:19 PM

Well, jeez, even a 5-year old knows there aren't 57 states in the union. But Obama's is apparently confused on the subject.

Meanwhile, additional evidence that Obama's a moron: he doesn't know the difference between Memorial Day and Veteran's Day.

Now, being a Harvard graduate is some evidence that Obama isn't a moron, but not every Harvard graduate is as intelligent as the Harvard graduate who currently occupies the Oval Office.

Posted by Al | May 27, 2008 4:21 PM

Al is seriously arguing that Bush Jr. is some sort of intellectual powerhouse. Man. That's impressive. I praise your powers of will.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 4:23 PM

Okay--Al's here. We can all go home now!

Posted by elle loco | May 27, 2008 4:24 PM

eric k,

Mark my words, if it turns out that it was impossible for a relative of his to be at a concentration camp during WWII, the Reps will run more than a few ads mentioning it and it will turn out to be at least a week-long story. Does he need that? IMHO, he should address this NOW. (One of) Hillary's mistake was not doing so, which made the story fester longer than it should have.

Posted by Purview | May 27, 2008 4:25 PM

from the Washington Post:

"In World War II we didn't have the concept of post-traumatic stress syndrome. People had to basically handle it on their own," he [Obama] said. Referring to an uncle who had been one of the first U.S. troops into Auschwitz, the concentration camp, Obama said: "The story in the family is he came home and just went up in the attic."

does anyone know if Obama's uncle actually WASN'T one of the first U.S. troops to go into Auschwitz? the direct quote contains nothing about liberation or Communists, so why are we talking about them? because crazed right-wing freepers at the National Review decided to? why don't we actually discern whether or not Obama's family story is true before we, you know, call him a liar?

or would that be too much to ask?

Posted by BA | May 27, 2008 4:25 PM

from the Washington Post:

"In World War II we didn't have the concept of post-traumatic stress syndrome. People had to basically handle it on their own," he [Obama] said. Referring to an uncle who had been one of the first U.S. troops into Auschwitz, the concentration camp, Obama said: "The story in the family is he came home and just went up in the attic."

does anyone know if Obama's uncle actually WASN'T one of the first U.S. troops to go into Auschwitz? the direct quote contains nothing about liberation or Communists, so why are we talking about them? because crazed right-wing freepers at the National Review decided to? why don't we actually discern whether or not Obama's family story is true before we, you know, call him a liar?

or would that be too much to ask?

Posted by BA | May 27, 2008 4:28 PM

The uncle in question is a great-uncle. The great uncle is presumably the brother of his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, since Obama has said before that the stories of this great-uncle's wartime experiences were related to him by his grandmother.

I suspect we'll just find that the discrepancies are just a case of some noise in the intra-family data stream.

Posted by Dan Kervick | May 27, 2008 4:30 PM

Oh, come on Al. You don't honestly believe that Obama thought there were 57 states in the union, do you?

Posted by Dan Kervick | May 27, 2008 4:34 PM

Senator Obama's error may have been in not identifying correctly the concentration camp that his uncle was involved in liberating. The U.S. Army liberated a number of concentration camps during World War II. The media should first do some research to verify if Senator Obama did in fact have an uncle who served in the ETO and what army division he served with. If this can be confirmed it should be an easy task to determine which concentration camp(s) his division liberated. If this turns out to be a total fabrication on Senator Obama's part, it should be exposed by the media

Posted by Craig | May 27, 2008 4:36 PM

For my part, it brings up the possibility that Obama's family could have liberated my wife's family from Buchenwald, while my father commanded American guards at Spandau in the early 1960s. Strange to think how many threads can intersect in such a short span of history.

Posted by tWB | May 27, 2008 4:38 PM

One thing I do know is that Obama needs to submitt a press release for clarification purposes because this gaffe can really blow-up into something. Obama should have checked this story out before telling this to the public. That was just stupid to not do so.

Posted by Micheline | May 27, 2008 4:41 PM

BA - it's definitely not true because there were never any US troops in Poland at all.

As far as the story itself, the Obama campaign has clarified that it was a great uncle who helped liberate Buchenwald, not Auschwitz. Seems like a pretty innocent mistake to me, but I guess I'm in the tank.

Posted by John | May 27, 2008 5:08 PM

Oh please! I'm sure it's a story he heard decades ago. Anyone could easily have conflated one camp with another (Auschwitz is the one we hear about most, after all). I don't really think it matters much if it was Auschwitz or Buchenwald or Dachau, the experience would have been the same.

Posted by Sean Robertson | May 27, 2008 5:08 PM

You don't honestly believe that Obama thought there were 57 states in the union, do you?

Heh. You don't really think Senator Lott wanted to elect a segregationist President, do you?

Posted by Al | May 27, 2008 5:17 PM

My two cents is that even historians who should know better get "death camps" and "concentration camps" confused. There were only 6 "death camps." The Nazis were happy if you died at one of the other camps, but they didn't ship you there expressly for the purpose of shooting or gassing you on the spot.

Given such sloppiness from historians, I'm not surprised that Obama misspoke. I do think a correction from his campaign would be appropriate.

(Bonus nerd points: was Auschwitz a death camp, or a concentration camp? The latter! The *death* camp was at the immediately adjacent Birkenau facility. Auschwitz was a slave-labor camp of great scope.)

Posted by Anderson | May 27, 2008 5:20 PM

Al,

Given that Lott was a segregationist when he got into politics I'd say that isn't even up for debate.

Posted by eric k | May 27, 2008 5:20 PM

Oh noes! Obama's family mistook Buchenwald for Auschwitz! Stop the presses! We're all going to die!

My only question - will wingnuts ever be embarrassed at how stupid their talking points are?

Posted by jimBOB | May 27, 2008 5:22 PM

My only question - will wingnuts ever be embarrassed at how stupid their talking points are?

Posted by jimBOB

A rhetorical question, I assume.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 5:41 PM

Obama's great uncle helped liberate the very first concentration camp found: Ohrdruf camp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrdruf_forced_labor_camp

What General Eisenhower had to say about it:

After his visit, Eisenhower cabled General George C. Marshall, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Washington, describing his trip to Ohrdruf:

. . .the most interesting--although horrible--sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda.'

The advantage to this smear is that I learned more WWII history, and found out that Obama's great uncle was a real hero, who was a witness to a horror of "man's inhumanity to man". Perhaps the silliness can stop, and people go to the Wiki link to view the images of what Obama's great uncle saw when entering that camp.

Posted by beachmom | May 27, 2008 5:41 PM

"does anyone know if Obama's uncle actually WASN'T one of the first U.S. troops to go into Auschwitz? the direct quote contains nothing about liberation or Communists, so why are we talking about them? because crazed right-wing freepers at the National Review decided to? why don't we actually discern whether or not Obama's family story is true before we, you know, call him a liar?
or would that be too much to ask?"

Yeah, it would be nice if Matt provided a link to hard data. For all we know Obama's uncle fought in the Red Army.

But Matt's point still stands. It's not often that you see conservatives fight to give Commies credit for something positive, since, you know, Pinkos are pure, unadulterated evil, sort of like the Islamist Jihadists the CIA funded in Afghanistan via the ISI to fight the Commies. Etc., ad nauseum.

Posted by Peter K. | May 27, 2008 5:43 PM

I don't believe Obama lied. And it is possible that whoever preps him on the stump told him Auschwitz instead of Dachau because, as others have pointed out, Auschwitz has a better chance of being recognized by the masses. But I do believe you should "give a shit" that Obama is ignorant of the fact that the Russians liberated Auschwitz, which is located in Poland; and that the American and British forces did not advance beyond the Elba (in Germany) where they met the Russians advancing from the east.

I think it is still important for the President to have a working knowledge of modern world history and European geography. The purpose of NATO, our historical relations with Russia, and our continuing relations with Russia and Europe are still valid concerns for the United States and, especially, for its President.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 27, 2008 5:45 PM

TheBIgHenry,

Really? You're holding the president acocuntable for that level of on the fly knowledge?

Good to know, so that would mean you certainly never voted for Reagan or Bush, right?

Posted by eric k | May 27, 2008 5:58 PM

The real crime, here, is that someone in politics mentioned WWII for a purpose other than bolstering calls to go to war with more Arab and Muslim governments, which is what WWII was retroactively about, it appears.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 6:00 PM

Anderson, you're pushing it: Birkenau was known at the time and still is referred to today as "Auschwitz-Birkenau" (or less often as Auschwitz II). The current museum and memorial is named "Auschwitz-Birkenau" and the iconic image of the entrance is that of Auschwitz-Birkenau. Actually there were 3 camps named "Auschwitz", the third being Auschwitz-Monowitz or Buna, a slave labour camp for IG Farben, where for instance Primo Levi was held. But almost everybody uses Auschwitz as shorthand for Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Posted by novakant | May 27, 2008 6:12 PM

Jeez!!! Obama is lying all the time, and no need to explain as the facts tell the tales. In fact LouDobbs just made Senator Barrack Obama a "hobby" for his radio show on AM 1160.
If you, left wing, want to spin on this, spin it in a humorous way so I don't waste my reading the comments!!!

No Rumors Required

Posted by RumorMater | May 27, 2008 6:13 PM

The advantage to this smear is that I learned more WWII history, and found out that Obama's great uncle was a real hero, who was a witness to a horror of "man's inhumanity to man". Perhaps the silliness can stop, and people go to the Wiki link to view the images of what Obama's great uncle saw when entering that camp.
Posted by beachmom

Females with no military experience somethimes say silly things like beachmom..

Such silly females:

1. Have no idea how large a Division is, and automatically place each soldier at any event the Division was involved in.
2. Liberation of prison camps was a small side affair involving only a small portion of a Division's troops while the vast remainder - on more pressing projects like killing Nazis, repairing tanks, boiling mess tent food up were never there and likely never heard about it at the time, only months or years later as the Holocaust became a big media propaganda deal.
3. My grandfather was with the 3rd. He never "marched with Patton" as he never physically saw the guy or was within miles of the general. He "liberated" a few towns, also festooned with piles of French and German civilian corpses from Typhus, cholera, malnutrition, or US bombings - but never heard about the towns or camps others in the 3rd "liberated". Except in passing as a "mission objective" realized as troops drove the Germans out.
Lots of dead civilians were not an exceptional sight, or a big deal. In Germany, his company did help one German city excavate graves with bulldozers to bury over 400 civilian bodies stored above ground because the ground was frozen hard and they had no fuel to operate their own backhoes, bulldozers for months..
4. Records can definitively show if Obama's greatuncle was in a 4th Div Company and platoon documented as present at some camp - or not.

On top of that, Obama also lied about his grandfather volunteering the day after Pearl Harbor (his records show he was Drafted June 18, 1942).
And lied about his grandfather hearing from fellow troops that helped liberate Auschwitz and Treblinka, as well as his granduncle. (None of his fellow US troops were within 400 miles of Auschwitz or Treblinka. Only the Soviets..

Posted by chris ford | May 27, 2008 6:22 PM

Obama and the Holocaust

But according to the Obama campaign, all this outrage may have been just a little premature. It admits that the Auschwitz part of the story wasn't true, and that it was in fact Obama's great uncle he was referring to, not his uncle, but according to Obama spokesman Bill Burton, there's an innocent explanation. In a statement, Burton said, "Senator Obama's family is proud of the service of his grandfather and uncles in World War II -- especially the fact that his great uncle was a part of liberating one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald. Yesterday he mistakenly referred to Auschwitz instead of Buchenwald in telling of his personal experience of a soldier in his family who served heroically."

Posted by nal | May 27, 2008 6:31 PM

Chris Ford, we could talk about what George Bush's grandfather did during WWII. Whoops, sorry, don't want to go there.

Posted by Jose Padilla | May 27, 2008 6:32 PM

I think there's a simple explanation here.

It sounds to me that, since Obama wasn't around in WWII, he's going by what he was told by someone else, namely his relatives - who probably got it all wrong.

Did he bother to fact check his relatives? Probably not. That's not something one normally does.

Now, once it's brought to his attention - and we KNOW that it was brought to his attention - that it wasn't possible as described, we'll see if he keeps repeating it - like Hillary did with Tuzla LONG after she was called on it.

THEN you can call him a liar.

And apparently, according to Nal's post, they already have straightened it out.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | May 27, 2008 6:47 PM

This is really silly. Obviously Senator Obama either had a false recollection regarding that particular family anecdote, or he simply misspoke. Also, I think everyone should know Obama is well aware how many states there are in the Union considering he's just been spending 18 months competiting for votes in every one of them (minus Florida and Michigan, of course).

I think it does the political debate a real disservice when we parse every phrase our politicians utter for minor inaccuracies, and refuse to ever give the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by Tim K | May 27, 2008 6:58 PM

Chris Ford's only thinly disguised antisemitism is rearing its ugly head. Actually the liberation of concentration camps was a big deal and a pressing issue since several German commanders undertook last minute mass killings or went on death marches taking with them those victims that could still walk and leaving those that were too weak in desperate circumstances in the camps.

Posted by novakant | May 27, 2008 7:09 PM

Obama isn't a liar (about this, anyway), he's just a moron. Now, it was a little more obvious that Obama is a moron when he was spouting off about how the USA has 57 states, but this makes it pretty clear too. It's a shame this country is going to be led for the next eight years by a moron.

I used to think Al was simply playing the 'gotcha' game, while actually having some sort of politically biased rationale for his arguments. I used to believe Al actually came here to defend conservative ideals, rather than to simply incite protests from the less sly commentors. I used to think I was a sly commentor. After reading the above and Al's subsequent post extolling the superior intelligence of GWB, I no longer think Al cares a whit about conservative ideals. I no longer think I was sly. And I no longer see reason to consider Al's political beliefs to constitute anything other than that which might raise the hackles of some liberal caricature.

And this is sad.

Al, I would have liked to have known ya.

But sorry, I don't converse with phantoms.

Posted by concerning the trolled | May 27, 2008 7:27 PM

What Tim K said (mirabile dictu).

But I do believe you should "give a shit" that Obama is ignorant of the fact that the Russians liberated Auschwitz, which is located in Poland; and that the American and British forces did not advance beyond the Elba (in Germany) where they met the Russians advancing from the east.

You spelled Elbe wrong, doofus. I hope you know that your ignorance of this very important river's name disqualifies you from ever seeking federal office.

Posted by southpaw | May 27, 2008 7:28 PM

I love it when the milnerds get outraged at how someone dare failed to get some detail right when they've spent hours and hours reconstructing every moment of the battle in their journals, board games, and little dioramas.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 7:53 PM

This whole thread reminds me of the wisps of smoke that arise from dying campfires - and apparently dying campaigns.

Obama 08

Posted by Reginald Avery Wilkins, Ph.D. | May 27, 2008 7:57 PM

He actually helped liberate a sub camp of Buchenwald. Clearly saying Auschwitz when he should have said Buchenwald is an unforgivable sin.

He just lost my vote!

You guys who think this is a big deal are idiots. And look especially after defending Clinton on Bosnia even after she repeated her story when confronted with the news reel.

Posted by NM | May 27, 2008 8:44 PM

But almost everybody uses Auschwitz as shorthand for Auschwitz-Birkenau.

That's why I was awarding "nerd points," Novakant. Nerds delight in useless precision.

Posted by Anderson | May 27, 2008 8:45 PM

Chris Ford's only thinly disguised antisemitism is rearing its ugly head. Actually the liberation of concentration camps was a big deal and a pressing issue since several German commanders undertook last minute mass killings or went on death marches taking with them those victims that could still walk and leaving those that were too weak in desperate circumstances in the camps.
Posted by novakant

No one running the Allies put the Jews as the highest priority or declared their lives more precious and valuable than the Soviet, French civilians, the Yugoslavs, Christian Poles who were also dying in droves from malnutrition, typhus, cholera, and being caught in the crossfire - and especially not more valuable than the American, Russian, and Brit soldiers fighting and dying.

Defeating the enemy was the highest priority, next was minimizing soldier casualties, next was preventing mass dieoffs of civilians with no "head of the line" for anyone of any particular ethnicity or religion.

"Liberation" was not a big deal to soldiers as fighting to take ground, key strategic points, Nazi-held cities, and decimating German soldiers and supplies to the rear. Not until Allied propagandists realized that the horrid camps had media value in the closing phases of the war and were proof that "The Germans were worse than us city firebombers" for the historical "we were the good guys" history books and war crimes trials did it become a big deal.

Slyly, the meme has become the helping of "special victims" the Jews - by walking into a guard-deserted camp and handing out candy "kindly liberators" facing no lethal resistance, displaying no bravery - amount to such soldiers being the greatest "heroes" of the War, the noble "Liberators".

Not the Marines at Iwo Jima, the guys who stormed the bridge at Remagon - no, rear ech soldiers who strolled in and handed out candy bars. Or helping other European civilians also in mortal danger that lacked the higher moral claim Jews supposedly had....Which would have been dismissed by any soldier at the time as BS - Foreign Jews were not worth any more than other foreign civilians they saw suffering and dying, and certainly not worth extra casualties and a delayed Victory to divert men and resources from more important objectives of defeating the lethal Nazi forces...

The meme is so good that a few years back a black Vet's Group and some Lefty Jews, including some WWII survivors collaborated in a fake story that Hero Negro "Liberators" had "saved the Jews!!!" at Buchenwald or Dachau. Thus, Lefty Jews proclaimed a deep obligation existed for all Jews and Americans to be grateful for the hero blacks soldiers and their descendents and give blacks more benefits...
The problem is that military history is actually quite good and quickly debunks these politically correct hoaxes. The Jews and black Vet story was swiftly exposed as a lie.

(Just like the myth that the Tuskagee Airman were the greatest fliers of WWII and never lost a bomber they escorted. (The truth was they lost several, and the Tuskagee fliers were rated below average pilots but as outperformers given the training they had received.)

Posted by chris ford | May 27, 2008 8:58 PM

I love it when the milnerds get outraged at how someone dare failed to get some detail right when they've spent hours and hours reconstructing every moment of the battle in their journals, board games, and little dioramas.

El Cid wins the thread. But Chris Ford gets a special citation for Most in Need of Thorazine.

Posted by calling all toasters | May 27, 2008 9:21 PM

Bill Clinton was very fortunate in his choice of enemies -- it was the quality of his enemies (Gingrich, Limbaugh, Lindsay Graham, etc) that helped buoy Clinton's popularity through his darkest days. I suspect that the howling vacancy of the attacks on Obama will act similarly. The vacant, unlike the crazed and stupid, don't realize their vacancy and so can't change and can't help but be vacant. Rage on, chums.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | May 27, 2008 9:25 PM

You gotta feel a little sorry for the Right Wing smear machine, they've gone from Al Gore inventing the Internet, Swift Boating John Kerry to Obama mentioning the wrong concentration camp that his great uncle liberated during WW II. How far the mighty have fallen.

Posted by eric k | May 27, 2008 10:01 PM

I also think it's cute that Chris Ford gets all outraged that people can dare, dare appreciate the simple human reactions of the U.S. troops entering the concentration and/or death camps, as opposed to those in the middle of the worst fighting.

After all, if you're going to be a paranoid douchebag trapped in battle recreations, you obviously prefer the blood & guts variety to the human side of soldiering, 'cause it's so much more thrilling in that cheap comic book way.

Posted by El Cid | May 27, 2008 10:09 PM

Wow! Obama Sees Dead people

Obama's Memorial Day speech in New Mexico --

"...On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong..."

Posted by nobama | May 27, 2008 10:40 PM

You spelled Elbe wrong, doofus. I hope you know that your ignorance of this very important river's name disqualifies you from ever seeking federal office. Posted by southpaw | May 27, 2008 7:28 PM

You are right; it's spelled Elbe, not Elba. Perhaps that typo does disqualify me from federal office, but that is of very little consequence. I do know that the Elbe River flows through Germany, and I am also aware that Auschwitz is in Poland. Moreover, I know that Poland is east of Germany, and I also know that Obama does not. I am aware, however, that Obama is the one who has Presidential ambitions. Furthermore, I am pretty sure that Obama can't deliver on any of his promises for handouts and bailouts, and even if he could, it would not be a good thing for this nation. What amazes me is that anyone could believe that Obama can rise above the ineptitude of Jimmy Carter, whom I actually voted for; twice. I guess the people deserve whatever leadership, or lack thereof, they get.

BTW, southpaw, you are a lefty, right? Got change?

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 27, 2008 10:56 PM

Big Henry

Obama has to be the scariest Presidential candidate!

Posted by nobama | May 27, 2008 11:05 PM

Big Henry Obama has to be the scariest Presidential candidate! Posted by nobama | May 27, 2008 11:05 PM

nobama: Yes and no. I think Michelle Obama is scarier than Barack.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 28, 2008 12:07 AM

I call Fake Al, or Al On Drugs.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 28, 2008 12:31 AM

It's the Obamabots that are scarier than Michelle. Nice job of deflecting Southpaw's rude remarks.

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 12:39 AM

Mr. John McCain, a flawed vessel but the best we have. The GOP is America’s only hope for racial purity.

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 12:53 AM

Obama was wrong on Michigan ballot and will be wrong on day one!

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:01 AM

If not John McCain, then America’s only salvation might be a good, strong rope!

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:17 AM

"Hillary believes Americans are better not bitter."

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:24 AM

Actually, I find Al's shenanigans cute at times because they are so dorky. You know he doesn't believe what he says, which means he isn't a total idiot. What he does believe about anything, however, is unclear.

Is this really the best the right can come up with? Praising the Red Army and Stalin to attack Obama?

Posted by Reality Man | May 28, 2008 1:30 AM

Obama as President?!? Are you serious?!?

Come on, just take a look at him. Remember, this is America!

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:33 AM

"Obama is arrogant, behaves disrespectfully towards his opponent, insults each voting block one by one, and has hordes of supporters who make the screaming hooligans at a Manchester United football match look like dainty debutantes."

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:41 AM

“Is this really the best the right can come up with? Praising the Red Army and Stalin to attack Obama?”

Maybe you can’t blame the right for being confused. Their entire skewed political spectrum is messed up.

Liberals are bad. Fascists were also liberals, so fascists must be bad. Therefore, if fascists are bad, Communists must be…..

Posted by Raindog | May 28, 2008 1:41 AM

January 22nd; Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama takes the oath of office on the Koran.
January 23rd; BHMO calls for a peace treaty to be signed with Al-Quedia and wants to talk to Bin Laden.
January 24th; white families wake up across the country to the sounds of black men pounding on their door, asking, “where are the white women at”?
January 25th; President Osama-Obama, signs an executive order to outlaw Christian worship in public.

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:53 AM

"If not Capt. Sen. John McCain, then Sen. Hillary Clinton. If not her, than anyone but the secret Muslim half-breed. Please, your country is at stake!"

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 1:59 AM

"The media is slowly destroying the black community with their words. They are ripping the Democratic Party apart and are dividing this nation. Any sane, reasonable and coherent person can see that the cries of racism are their attempts to get Senator Clinton to leave this race by any means necessary. We resent what is happening because Hillary is being railroaded."

Patsy

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 2:00 AM

"Good blacks know their place. Obama is just upsetting things. Hillary is best for the black community. Besides blacks owe the Clintons for the 1990's."

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 2:05 AM

We have Hillary's back. "It was born from watching the little girls with big dreams, and those that are already living the American dream. It came from mothers who can barely make ends meet and do without just so their families can barely get by. It's from the blue collar workers who just lost their jobs. It was born from the heroes and sheroes deploying to the same place year after year with no end in sight. It came from the ones who want to give up, but find a way to keep on going. It started from the ones who have been constantly knocked down, but keep getting back on their feet. It came from those moving forward that never look back."
Patsy

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 2:14 AM

"Would you buy a used car from Barack Obama? Not if you lived in Florida or Michigan."

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 2:18 AM

nobama, what were you quoting there? Who is "Patsy?" I get a kick out of the word "sheroes." What is that?

Posted by Hah! | May 28, 2008 4:50 AM

"You know he doesn't believe what he says, which means he isn't a total idiot."

No, sorry.

Al IS an idiot - and a total one at that.

Posted by Richard Steven Hack | May 28, 2008 5:28 AM

So Obama's uncle who was in the Navy help to liberate Ohrdruf. Obama is now using his storytelling powers to embellish the feats of the entire family.

Posted by dreams of my great uncle | May 28, 2008 6:32 AM

Stick to pretending you're in any way qualified to write about professional basketball, Matt.

Sneering at pride in American's participation in World War 2 is pretty fucking lame, kid.

But, eh, enough criticism . . .

Enjoy your vacation! Have fun banging your humorless thirdwave feminist girlfriend! Maybe Sarah can explain what public school is like for the vulgar masses in your down time! Well, when you two aren't too busy listening to beyond parody rich kid indie rock (Vampire Weekend, etc.) and dreaming of a suicidal hand-it-to-the-Republicans Obama/Napolitano ticket.

Ah, youth!

Privileged, smug, bloody ignorant, oh so snide youth!

Posted by A rather exasperated old school liberal | May 28, 2008 10:43 AM

America didn't even enter the war until 1941, when Hitler was at the gates of Moscow! So spare us the moralising, Mr. Old School Liberal.

Posted by A rather disgusted foreigner | May 28, 2008 7:11 PM

Disgusted foreigner

Spare us the Obama lies!

Posted by nobama | May 28, 2008 7:20 PM

Family stories can get confused. I remember being told that my mother (who died when I was just a kid) was salutatorian of her class at the University of Michigan. About thirty years later, I figured out that she had gotten a postgraduate degree in nursing at UM, & must have been second in her nursing class. A somewhat different matter.

But here's the thing - when you are president, every word you say had better be correct. Hillary obviously doesn't understand this, & it appears to me that Obama is not exactly interested in it himself. Either that, or he can't tell states from food products. (Heinz 57 varieties, for you youngsters. Look it up on Wikipedia.)

Posted by punditius | May 29, 2008 12:20 AM

Chris Ford says: "...the guys who stormed the bridge at Remagon...."

That's Remagen, you pathetic idiot. That deliberate lie disqualifies you from ever opening your mouth with a political opinion ever again.

See, we can all play that game.

Posted by Green Eagle | May 29, 2008 1:08 AM

Reading comments here has been fascinating, the conservative/Republicans have their racism and antisemitism oozing out of every pustule on their bodies. I take it that Obama mispoke about a FAMILY story. We all have them and they are usually flawed in some minor way or another. I know my mother told me for years when I was growing up that Al Capone's youngest brother was Marshal, under an assumed name, of the small (200 people) town in northeastern Nebraska where she grew up. I always took it as an exageration at best and BS at worst. Imagine my suprise in the 1980's when a movie came out about it and it was true, all true. The name of the town in Nebraska was Homer and Capone's youngest brother was Marshall there and towns people only found out after his death in the 1950's. Whatever, the point Obama was trying to make on post traumatic stress disorder was far more important than all the lies Republicans are now trying to make about the story Obama told. Republicans are never going to get over being Rascist fools. Look at their die hard support for Bush. By the way do you know what "W" calls a Nazi? Grandpa! Do you know what George H.W.Bush calls a Nazi? Daddy! Prescott Bush was convicted of trading with the Nazi enemy in 1942 and should have been tried for treason but wasnt because of his Republican connections. The family fortune was started off of these Nazi trading connections. Additionally Prescott Bush was involved with a documented attempt to overthrow the elected government of Franklin Roosevelt (dont believe me? look it up it is all over the Internet) in the 1930's. And the Republicans still elected him a Senator in the 1950's. Believe me if a Democratic canidate had ever had the treasonous connections that the Bush's have they never would have made it to the election.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 1:51 PM

Reading comments here has been fascinating, the conservative/Republicans have their racism and antisemitism oozing out of every pustule on their bodies. I take it that Obama mispoke about a FAMILY story. We all have them and they are usually flawed in some minor way or another. I know my mother told me for years when I was growing up that Al Capone's youngest brother was Marshal, under an assumed name, of the small (200 people) town in northeastern Nebraska where she grew up. I always took it as an exageration at best and BS at worst. Imagine my suprise in the 1980's when a movie came out about it and it was true, all true. The name of the town in Nebraska was Homer and Capone's youngest brother was Marshall there and towns people only found out after his death in the 1950's. Whatever, the point Obama was trying to make on post traumatic stress disorder was far more important than all the lies Republicans are now trying to make about the story Obama told. Republicans are never going to get over being Rascist fools. Look at their die hard support for Bush. By the way do you know what "W" calls a Nazi? Grandpa! Do you know what George H.W.Bush calls a Nazi? Daddy! Prescott Bush was convicted of trading with the Nazi enemy in 1942 and should have been tried for treason but wasnt because of his Republican connections. The family fortune was started off of these Nazi trading connections. Additionally Prescott Bush was involved with a documented attempt to overthrow the elected government of Franklin Roosevelt (dont believe me? look it up it is all over the Internet) in the 1930's. And the Republicans still elected him a Senator in the 1950's. Believe me if a Democratic canidate had ever had the treasonous connections that the Bush's have they never would have made it to the election.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 1:52 PM

Reading comments here has been fascinating, the conservative/Republicans have their racism and antisemitism oozing out of every pustule on their bodies. I take it that Obama mispoke about a FAMILY story. We all have them and they are usually flawed in some minor way or another. I know my mother told me for years when I was growing up that Al Capone's youngest brother was Marshal, under an assumed name, of the small (200 people) town in northeastern Nebraska where she grew up. I always took it as an exageration at best and BS at worst. Imagine my suprise in the 1980's when a movie came out about it and it was true, all true. The name of the town in Nebraska was Homer and Capone's youngest brother was Marshall there and towns people only found out after his death in the 1950's. Whatever, the point Obama was trying to make on post traumatic stress disorder was far more important than all the lies Republicans are now trying to make about the story Obama told. Republicans are never going to get over being Rascist fools. Look at their die hard support for Bush. By the way do you know what "W" calls a Nazi? Grandpa! Do you know what George H.W.Bush calls a Nazi? Daddy! Prescott Bush was convicted of trading with the Nazi enemy in 1942 and should have been tried for treason but wasnt because of his Republican connections. The family fortune was started off of these Nazi trading connections. Additionally Prescott Bush was involved with a documented attempt to overthrow the elected government of Franklin Roosevelt (dont believe me? look it up it is all over the Internet) in the 1930's. And the Republicans still elected him a Senator in the 1950's. Believe me if a Democratic canidate had ever had the treasonous connections that the Bush's have they never would have made it to the election.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 1:58 PM

Reading comments here has been fascinating, the conservative/Republicans have their racism and antisemitism oozing out of every pustule on their bodies. I take it that Obama mispoke about a FAMILY story. We all have them and they are usually flawed in some minor way or another. I know my mother told me for years when I was growing up that Al Capone's youngest brother was Marshal, under an assumed name, of the small (200 people) town in northeastern Nebraska where she grew up. I always took it as an exageration at best and BS at worst. Imagine my suprise in the 1980's when a movie came out about it and it was true, all true. The name of the town in Nebraska was Homer and Capone's youngest brother was Marshall there and towns people only found out after his death in the 1950's. Whatever, the point Obama was trying to make on post traumatic stress disorder was far more important than all the lies Republicans are now trying to make about the story Obama told. Republicans are never going to get over being Rascist fools. Look at their die hard support for Bush. By the way do you know what "W" calls a Nazi? Grandpa! Do you know what George H.W.Bush calls a Nazi? Daddy! Prescott Bush was convicted of trading with the Nazi enemy in 1942 and should have been tried for treason but wasnt because of his Republican connections. The family fortune was started off of these Nazi trading connections. Additionally Prescott Bush was involved with a documented attempt to overthrow the elected government of Franklin Roosevelt (dont believe me? look it up it is all over the Internet) in the 1930's. And the Republicans still elected him a Senator in the 1950's. Believe me if a Democratic canidate had ever had the treasonous connections that the Bush's have they never would have made it to the election.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 1:59 PM

Reading comments here has been fascinating, the conservative/Republicans have their racism and antisemitism oozing out of every pustule on their bodies. I take it that Obama mispoke [sic]about a FAMILY story. We all have them and they are usually flawed in some minor way or another. [...] Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 1:59 PM

Some of the pustules are not oozing, Mr. astralprojection1. What you and others who can't express themselves without resorting to lurid hyperbole don't seem to understand is that whatever the Obama family lore happens to be, this particular piece of lore brings to light the important issue of Barack Obama's lack of knowledge, not the trivial issue of his uncle's fabrications. Nobody should care about family lore. What is worth caring about, however, is that the Presidential candidate is unaware that his uncle's story couldn't possibly be true, because the history, geography, and the geopolitics of World War II contradict it. That is what some of us care about, and you should too.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 29, 2008 3:07 PM

No Mr. BigWhatever the pustules are still oozing as always. The reality is you are assuming that he did not understand all the history and geograpy rather than that it was just a misstatement of a relatively unimportant fact. I think it was just a misstatement and as it goes in the scheme of things unimportant. The importance was the relation to Post traumatic stress syndrome that Mr. Obama was relating the story to. We have a Republican administration wiping its feet on the constitution, sending soldiers such as currently my two nephews on tour after tour of Iraq and Afghanistan (one has done two tours and is going on his third, the other has done three tours). The American military is on the verge of breaking down as happened in VietNam, my war, and the USA is consequently not going to be ready for any other situation that develops requiring troops. I fully expect to hear in the next few months that US officers are being wounded or killed by our troops in Iraq, and the Republicans are concerned about a misstatement in a speech related to a serious syndrome affecting our returning servicemen AND their families. Rediculous.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 5:29 PM

No Mr. BigWhatever the pustules are still oozing as always. The reality is you are assuming that he did not understand all the history and geograpy [sic] rather than that it was just a misstatement of a relatively unimportant fact. I think it was just a misstatement and as it goes in the scheme of things unimportant. The importance was the relation to Post traumatic stress syndrome that Mr. Obama was relating the story to. We have a Republican administration wiping its feet on the constitution, [...] Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 5:29 PM

Mr. australopithecus, what you think is not necessarily reality any more than what anyone else thinks. It is merely an assumption, a conjecture or an opinion. And I didn't say that Obama doesn't understand history or geography; my assumption was, and continues to be, that he doesn't know American and European history and European geography well enough. Moreover, the facts about Auschwitz are only "unimportant" to anti-Semites. But your continued use of lurid hyperbole, such as "a Republican administration wiping its feet on the constitution" does not reflect well on your own knowledge of the United States Constitution and your own grip on reality.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 29, 2008 7:21 PM

Rather be an autralopithicus man than our modern version of the KnowNothings, a Bush Republican. I never knew that being a Presidential canidate meant you had to know everything about everything and never make a misstatement. Regardless, I will continue to believe that everyone makes a misstatement now and again and that in this case the right is just trying, as always, to muddy the issue away from the serious affects that our troops are suffering from after their many tours of duty. I see the effects of post traumatic stress on my family members and what it has done to their families. And then they get to go do another tour of Iraq. I know the Constitution quite well and know when the lying bastard of a President is trying to destroy it. I have my grip on reality far better than most, coming from Arizona where we have had to deal with deranged exteme rightwing corporatists politicians for the past 60 years.It is the reason why Arizona ranks 50th out of 50 states in education, and has someone like John McCain as a Senator.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 29, 2008 8:08 PM

A Presidential candidate does not have to know "everything about everything". You seem to have a lack of proportionate judgment. He can make a "misstatement now and again", though I have already discussed the difference between a misstatement and ignorance of the facts. None of our brave military in Iraq were drafted; they all volunteered. It is much easier to avoid voting for a "lying bastard" than to have one impeached. And anyone who claims to know the Constitution knows that a United States Senator, like John McCain or Barack Obama, has little to do with state education, which is not a federal responsibility, not even in Arizona.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 29, 2008 9:08 PM

One thing that bothers me about this Crazy Uncle Story is that it seems to be a little more evidence that Obama lives in a version of reality in which actual facts don't seem to be important.

I mean, consider that Crazy Preacher he listened to for 20 years. What rational person could believe for a minute that AIDS was concocted by the government? Yet in Obama's world, this is apparently conventional knowledge. Otherwise, why continue to pay any attention to the man's ravings?

Or take his wife's odd view that America is "just mean." In Obama's world, America is a mean country. Not a flawed country, not a country with virtues as well as faults, but just a downright mean county.

Or Iraq. Put aside for the moment the question whether we should be there. The fact is that we ARE there. That means that if we leave without first establishing a stable political environment, we will be seen as having lost the war, & that will have both immediate & longterm effects on how we deal with the world. Yet in Obama's world, there are no apparent aftereffects of an American retreat from Iraq. Hey, just leave & it will be like we never went in.

It seems to me that Bill Clinton very perceptively labeled Obama's world as a fairy tale. The Clintons have just got to be stunned that they are being "out lied" by a man who doesn't even seem to know that things he is saying are not true.

Well, the world is full of people who know things that ain't so. I can't think of any of them who wound up as President, though.

Posted by punditius | May 29, 2008 9:10 PM

[...] Well, the world is full of people who know things that ain't so. I can't think of any of them who wound up as President, though.

Posted by punditius | May 29, 2008 9:10 PM

Well said, punditius. The only exception I can think of is Jimmy Carter, but that's the exception that proves your rule, so to speak.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 30, 2008 10:36 AM

[...] Well, the world is full of people who know things that ain't so. I can't think of any of them who wound up as President, though.

Posted by punditius | May 29, 2008 9:10 PM

Well said, punditius. The only exception I can think of is Jimmy Carter, but that's the exception that proves your rule, so to speak.

Posted by TheBigHenry | May 30, 2008 10:38 AM

Gee, how interesting now it is the Crazy Old Uncle story and the Crazy Preacher story. Then you wonder how a rational person could believe the government concocted AIDS. If I was Black in this country I think I would have every reason to be suspicious of the government and what happens to them in this country. Have you heard about the Tuskegee experiment where the government "studied" 400+ Black men for over 20 years to document what happened to them as Syphlis destroyed them, although the government had voluminous knowledge of what happens to syphlis patients already. It was legalized murder. Or how about in the 1960's when LSD was given to unknowing subjects by the government which caused some of them to commit suicide because they thought they were going insane. Or how about the documented cases in the 1970's and 1980's where the CIA was flying cocaine into the United States for its latin american buddies, and our country had an epidemic of crack cocaine and associated killings in the barrios and ghettos of this country. Think African-Americans have a reason to trust the government? Think Republicans give a damn about any of this? They don't. We are just still in the waiting period before the Republicans unleash their paid liars to paint one big N word over the country. I already hear it out here. How can you vote for that N word, a Republican co-worker asked the other day. How many times have I heard about Obama's crazy N word preacher. It is just beginning and it is going to be ugly, and maybe, just maybe this time it is going to backfire on all you corporatists.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 30, 2008 7:15 PM

If voters reject Obama, it has nothing to do with his race. He is unqualified to be the leader of this country. Someone had made a comment about Obama's reality. It really hit home. We have a fragile economy, the dollar is falling, and we are involved in two wars. Somehow, we are to believe that a three year Senate term prepares him for the highest office in the land. No Way!

He has shown that he cares only for himself. He has allowed the voting rights of MI and FL to be violated, and he expects Democrats to fall in line. Obama removed his name from the MI ballot, but made a deal with the MI Democratic Party to have his name advertised as uncommitted. A vote for John Edwards also meant you voted uncommitted. What's the evidence? The uncommitted received 40.1% of the vote and Hillary received 56%, and the rest went to the other candidates. He also blocked the revote in both MI and FL.

Big Henry and Punditius have written excellent posts explaining why Obama would make a poor choice for President.

There is much racial injustice in America. However, it isn't a reason to nominate a weak candidate for President.

Posted by EWard | May 30, 2008 9:40 PM

Just trying to keep the racial niceness, right. So that means corrupt, white, showing early signs of senility John McCain is the better canidate because he has 20 years of experience? Doesnt matter that he, as of today didnt even know how many troops were in Iraq, still doesnt understand that the Shiite majority will never allow Al-queda to take control of Iraq, and still wants to keep us their for 5-100 years regardless of the fact that the Shiite's will never allow this. All this on top of McCain's being totally ignorant of economics, wanting to put more rightwing extremist, corporatists on the Supreme Court. Having been a Waiter at a number of Republican Banquets over the past 25 years I have seen McCain's temper up close and personal and that alone disqualifies him for the Presidency. The man has violent, irrational fits of temper that at one Banquet went on for at least 15-20 minutes, all because McCain bumped into a waiter and got wine dumped on himself. As events such as this finally come out in the press or the internet I have a feeling that I wont be the only one wondering if McCain's first act as President would be bombing North Vietnam claiming Al-queda is there. Come on man, just tell me one more time it is Obama's inexperience not his race, I need a good laugh.

Posted by astralprojection1 | May 31, 2008 2:49 AM

If it is a choice between McCain or Obama, I will vote for McCain. The pundits and the DNC have handpicked him. While his candidacy is being pushed upon us, the DNC has stood by while Hillary is being torn apart. This is Dirty Politics 101, and the voters are disgusted by the process.

He has a history of avoiding conroversial issues such as gun control and voting rights. His practice of voting "present" doesn't help him as a candidate. Obama is trying to steal votes away from Clinton with this MI and FL case. He has done everything imaginable to make sure the delegates will not count fairly. I will take McCain's temper anyday before accepting the dishonest politics of Obama.

Posted by EWard | May 31, 2008 9:18 AM

You would vote for McCain over Obama Because of Hilary? Then the blood of American Servicepeople begins to flow over you in the next four years of
McBush's presidency except that I dont think it will be able to. At this point from what I hear about our military (I'm one of the 1.0% of Americans with family members currently in Iraq) in Iraq is it is so over extended that the fragging of officers may start happening in Iraq as happened in the latter part of Richard Nixon's 7 year "secret plan" to end the war. So go ahead and vote for McCain and watch us twist in the Sun in Iraq and bomb Iran.

Posted by astralprojection1 | June 1, 2008 11:59 AM

Obama owns the DNC. After what took place in Washington DC on Saturday, he is the last person we need as President. Ickes was right. He was awarded delegates that didn't belong to him.

Before Obama ran for President, he stated his ideas about Iraq were the same as President Bush. Of course, his words changed as he started running for President.

One more thing, Obama did not hold any oversight hearings about Afghanistan. Why? He was too busy running for President.

Posted by EWard | June 1, 2008 2:40 PM