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Outback Strikes Back

05 May 2008 09:15 am

800px-Outback_Steakhouse_CA%201.JPG

Ezra Klein's right to bemoan the sneering condescension in this NYT piece on suburban chain restaurants. For me, this is made all the worse by the knowledge that the attitude of contempt is almost certainly fake. I was actually born and raised in Manhattan by fancy-pants parents who wouldn't dream of darkening the door of an Outback Steakhouse. Indeed, to the best of my knowledge by father has never tasted the joys of Chili's (those two are my favorites).

All of which has mostly made me aware of how rare this is. Most of New York City's elitists grew up in very conventional middle class suburbs and then moved to the city sometime after college. They may look like -- indeed, be -- Greenpoint hipsters now, but they come from the same places as all the other college educated white people in this country. Moreover, one suspects that the exotic locales visited by the Times' intrepid correspondents -- such places as Westchester and northern New Jersey -- are just where many Times readers live and dare I venture to guess that perhaps a few of the Times's writers and editors even commute in from the suburbs. Indeed, their section on the Olive Garden might have mentioned that there are three Olive Gardens in New York City one of which is about five blocks from the NYT building.

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Comments (174)

The most disdainful, rude, and obnoxious true sons of New York City have always been the ones who grew up in Des Moines. Real NYers are pretty normal and surprisingly nice.

Matt, the truth is that most chain restaurants are atrocious. Friday's, Chili's, and Applebee's serve almost uniformly horrid food. I mean, aesthetically, I wouldn't on principle object to eating at chain restaurants if they didn't serve dogfood. The problem is, their cooks don't know how to cook, and their servers generally are poorly paid and suffer very high turnover.

Compare this to highbrow chain service or nice locally owned restaurants, where the staff often serve 10 or 15 year tenures and are well paid and the cooks really know how to cook.

I will say that Outback is, in my experience at least, several notches above the rest. The food there is usually pretty good. All steaks are served well done, all the time, no matter how they're ordered, and the service is typical, but the food is pretty good I think.

I'm a daughter of the suburbs--IMO a lot of those chains *do* really suck but some are pretty good. What's annoying & weird about the article is the anthropological tone.

The reviews make sense from a food critic's view. Those restaurants serve crap. I eat there, but I'm not a gourmand. You send a high end food critic in to review a shitty chain restaurant in downtown White Plains (an ugly city), you can't be surprised at the results. If anything, blame the editors who approved the idea.

The reviews make sense from a food critic's view. Those restaurants serve crap. I eat there, but I'm not a gourmand. You send a high end food critic in to review a shitty chain restaurant in downtown White Plains (an ugly city), you can't be surprised at the results. If anything, blame the editors who approved the idea.


I never understood the chain restaurant haters. There is a reason they are called chain restaurants. You can go to one in NYC or Beijing or Prague and know exactly what you are getting. You aren't going there because you expect some fancy pants meal. If you go to a chain expecting a fancy pants meal, you have some kind of malfunction. Why the sends a reviewer to a chain is a question that ,sadly, I don't have an answer for. Then again, I think I do. The people that run the NY Times are just plain idiots(See the MY post about their dumb op-ed today).

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

The insipid batter they call ink at the NYT grows more tiresome by the day.

I don't have a problem with chain restaurants in general but those cheap steakhouse chains, like Outback, Applebees etc are really pretty bad. I have just given up on them all together. The steaks are almost uniformly poorly cooked and really chewy. Its really not worth the reduced price.

Fortunately for me, I have other options. There are some pretty good and relatively inexpensive Argentinian steakhouses where I live and every now and then I can splurge and go for Ruth's Chris or Morton's. Also, I can grill my own of course.

You know, Matt, the Olive Garden that's "five blocks from the NYT building" is in Times Square -- it's there precisely for the tourist crowd. NYers are not likely to eat there much, not because of the food per se, but because the restaurants in Times Square are (1) crowded, and (2) overpriced (i.e., "tourist pricing").

Of course, not to be a snob, but if you can't find better Italian food than Olive Garden in New York freakin' City, you're really not looking very hard.

I'm from the suburbs and I grew up on chain restaurants. After 20 years of the same old boring food, it really does begin to look like crap. Why eat at Chili's when Pad Thai has much better food for less?

You go into some of these suburbs in New Jersey, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the local restaurants and cafes have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Emeril craze, and the Rachel Ray craze, and the Food Network has said that somehow these communities are gonna eat well and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to Applebees or Outback or Chilis as a way to have a nice night out with their kids.

I don't object to these places based on their food. I object to them based on the problem of making the country uniform and boring. There was a time when you could go from city to city and see different restaurants and businesses. It made each place have its own unique attitude. Now it's Outback, Chili's, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, rinse, repeat. Larger cities, such as N.Y. and Chicago, have resisted being completely chained over, but a lot of small and medium sized cities, especially those that are growing quickly, are just all beginning to look alike. That upsets me. I feel we are losing a lot a nation culturally when cities become all prefabbed, chain, and essentially interchanagble.

Matt's being defensive. I remember well a college road trip where our native-born Manhattanites were horrified when someone seriously proposed stopping at a McDonald's. In any case, many of the NYTs Sunday readers outside the City in places like New Hampshire, Minneapolis, San Francisco or wherever, are even more snobbish, which is why they read the NYT in the first place, and I'm sure they loved this article.

Personally I won't set foot in an Outback Steakhouse - I don't hate all chain restaurants but the Outback and Olive Garden ad campaigns, with their pseudo-Australians and condescending caricatures of Italian Americans, annoy the hell out of me, to the point that I will refuse to go into their restaurants.

We live across the street from one of the NYC Outbacks:

1. It is extremely busy, seven days a week, with most non-tourists.

2. It is the most small child friendly restaurant in the neighborhood. Coloring book menu, kids drinks and televisions.

3. If you avoid the steaks - or get a steak sandwich (which is a much more reasonably sized meal) - the prices are not particularly expensive.

4. Quick and friendly wait staff makes up for a multitude of sins.

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

I agree. I live in a small city (250,000 or so people), and there are at least 15 Italain places that taste better than Olive Garden, ranging from cheap family-style dining up to more high-end, expensive places. Besides that, we don't even actually have an Olive Garden in the city; the closest one is a half hour's drive down the highway, next to a giant suburban mall. And for some reason, my Mom always wants to eat there.

In fact, there are almost none of the Rich Doctors Tax Shelter chains within the city. Except for an Applebee's and a Chili's, they're all out in the suburban "Shoppe" type places. But even then, there's a ton of reasonably priced local alternatives nearby. The popularity of the chains honestly astounds me, since whether you're in the suburbs or the city there are generally locally owned restaurants that have been well established and liked by the community for years.

I think it was Patton Oswalt four years ago who listed things he'd be willing to suffer through if it would prevent Bush from being re-elected:

1. Crapping his pants every time he blinks his eyes.
2. Watching puppies freeze to death.
3. Having all Italian food taste like it does at the Olive Garden.

Blast from the Past: Notes From The Olive Garden.

What the heck is Matthew talking about???

Yeah, people grew up outside of Manhattan and most likely ate at chain restaurants. Then moved to Manhattan... and learned that a real, individually-owned restaurant is better than a chain! Hence the snobbery about chain-restaurants: it comes from people who learned better!

Does Matthew not understand that, or am I missing something?

The most disdainful, rude, and obnoxious true sons of New York City have always been the ones who grew up in Des Moines.

There's a movie quote along those lines from back in the '40s, in Double Indemnity:

Phyllis: I'm a native Californian. Born right here in Los Angeles.

Walter Neff: They say all native Californians come from Iowa.

The reviews make sense from a food critic's view. Those restaurants serve crap.

Far be it from me to defend the Times, but did anyone here actually RTFA?

The reviews are uniformly positive.

And the "anthropological" tone can be rightfully attributed to the fact that no one ever writes reviews of these types of restaurants.

Also, I don't understand Matthew's point about "places as Westchester and northern New Jersey -- are just where many Times readers live".

I grew up in northern New Jersey and now live in Westchester (and lived in Manhattan in between). When I grew up, I never ate at a chain restaurant (other than during car trips, and even then not often) - we always ate at locally owned restaurants, which are plentiful and pretty good in northern New Jersey. And now that I live in Westchester, again, I never eat at a chain restaurant. So, you know, places like Outback and PF Changs are completely foreign to me. So why couldn't they be foreign for other people who read the Times and live in the NY suburbs?

Does Matthew not understand that, or am I missing something?

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 9:55 AM

Talk about having too many good choices on the menu!

And Outback Steakhouse has the only decent bread I've found in Korea.

OMG, I agree with Al.

Maybe it's a bad dream and I'll wake up soon.

For whatever it's worth: the Outback on 23rd Street in Manhattan, (which is the only Outback I've ever eaten at), serves unexpectedly good meat for a chain restaurant. I will go out on a limb and assert it's the best twenty-five dollar steak in New York City.

I'm not sure if it's representative of the chain in general, though.

The worst steak I ever had in a restaurant was at Ruth's Chris in Washington, D.C.

I haven't eaten in an Outback (I grew up on a beef farm, and if I never see another steak, it's OK by me), but I have eaten in Applebee's and Olive Garden. There are far better, as well as less expensive, family-style and Italian restaurants within a few minutes walk both of them. However, I think it's hard for tourists, especially tourists with kids, to figure out which of the abundance of local restaurants they would like, so a chain is often the easiest choice. But that's why you ask a local snob.

In small town America where I grew up, there are a few local restaurants that are pretty good, but they are pretty few and far between. In a lot of small towns, the Pizza Hut is the gourmet option.

The worst steak I ever had in a restaurant was at Ruth's Chris in Washington, D.C.

Also - what Glenn said about the Olive Garden's in NYC. There's here for the tourists! That's why Times Square has TGI Fridays, and Hard Rock Cafe, and all the rest.

Also also, note to Matthew - the Times has moved to their new building - they are no longer on West 43rd. They are now located on 8th Avenue between 40th and 41st.

For some people, for better or worse, Outback serves their favorite meal of the week/month/year. It's all relative.

There is a world of people who wish they could have such a nice meal regularly.

But whatever place you choose to dine that provides "good" food in a timely fashion at a reasonable cost, there will be people of better means looking down their noses at your barbaric tastes.

I just saw the Iron Man eat a Burger King cheeseburger for crying out loud. I couldn't help but feel superior.

I've been out America for sixteen months now, and I'm craving an Old Timer from Chili's. I guess, for some, that makes me the fool.

I'm sorry, Outback and PF Chang's are fantastic. Applebee's, Chili's, Ruby Tuesday, and Olive Garden are pretty good as well, if you know what to order. TGI Friday's sort of sucks. And I say this as a bona fide NYC elitist, who grew up in the suburbs of Florida.

But the point is, in most places in the country these are good options. In NY there are much better options, so why would you go to Olive Garden when there is a much better hole-in-the-wall Italian place down the street?

I also live in Westchester and never eat in chain restaurants. There are hundreds of eateries in the suburbs that aren't owned by scumbag corporations. Just look.

The worst steak I ever had in a restaurant was at Ruth's Chris in Washington, D.C.

Doug T.--Perfect...

I am mildly annoyed at Matt for referencing this article, which I skipped in yesterday's paper because I thought it would be exactly what it was.

What makes it a dumb article is that none of this is news. Boy, I am shocked, SHOCKED, that much of the food at chain restaurants is pedestrian, but sometimes the people who work there are nice.

I do not personally go to chain restaurants if it can be avoided (traveling with children is the exception--we go into "it's just fuel" mode).

Two basic reasons to go to a restaurant--

1. You don't feel liking cooking (too tired, no food at home, not at home, etc).
2. You want to eat food that's tastes or looks better than you can make yourself.

Most Americans eat out for the first reason, and chain restaurants fulfill that need (as does your local diner, or Seinfeldian Luncheonette, if you are an urbanite). More sadly, chain restaurants fulfill the second need in many parts of the country (those big square states in the middle).


In small town America where I grew up, there are a few local restaurants that are pretty good, but they are pretty few and far between. In a lot of small towns, the Pizza Hut is the gourmet option.

Rob, shhhhhhh! You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

Somehow I managed to drive across the United States (twice!) and never eat at a chain restaurant. Though maybe the options along routes 70 and 80 are better than the rest of "middle america."

But I've never heard such disdain for otherwise-decent "American grill" chains. They serve filling meals in convenient locations when you want to meet up with friends in an accessible, nearby area. I bow to no one in my urban elitist credentials, but I detest this "food-choice-as-moral-arbiter" thing.

We live in a rural Missouri town of 1400 people. We have to drive 37 miles to get to a McDonald's, and 59 to get to an Outback. While I admit that we are not gourmets, the Outback consistantly provides us with a good steak, good service, and a nice night out with the family. You are fortunate to have the choices you do.

My wife doesn't like to take a chance on unknown quantity restaurants, so I eat at chains more than I would like. I agree with the critique of the homogenizing effect of chain restaurants and general strip-mallification, where every town has its Best Buy, Home Depot, Target, and Applebees in a strip mall, so I'd prefer not to patronize them, but better that than a fight with the wife. Anyway Olive Garden is bloody awful, and I don't understand why anyone would wait to eat there. When I'm dictator, closing Olive Garden will be part of my first hundred days. The ribeye at Outback is generally pretty good, as are some of the sides, and the service tends to be decent - not worth waiting an hour, but I don't have the autonomy I used to. Ruby Tuesday's burgers and fries are like crack. Their other stuff isn't that good, but oh those hamburgers.

One of the advantages of local restaurants that no one has mentioned is that they are uniquely set up to take advantage of local food supplies. Many New York Restaurants buy their produce from the Union Square farmers Market, guaranteeing that their customers are getting at least some of their meal that isn't trucked or flown across the country to get to the table.

As we head into the growing season on the east coast, finding food that is locally grown is an easy way to not only eat healthy but also help reduce emissions. That spinach coming from upstate NY is easier on the environment.

If eating food that is local to where I live is considered elitist, sign me up immediately.

You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

I didn't say that "every podunk town" has a lot of good non-chain restaurants. I said that northern New Jersey and Westchester, i.e., the New York Times's local area, have a ton of decent-to-good non-chain restaurants.

I am actually shocked when I go to places like, say, Florida, and see how few good non-chain restaurants exist there. My impression is that, for a lot of the rest of the country, places like Outback and Olive Garden really are decent eating options. But not in the NYC metro area!

Chili's, Outback, and especially The Olive Garden suck. However, that being said, I love The Cheesecake Factory!

Sometimes, you just get a hankering for some Avacado Egg Rolls and some Orange Chicken and The Cheesecake Factory is the only place to go.

They also have the best big salads.

And, as for "family owned restaurants", I bet if you put up the median chain restaurant against the median family owned place, it would be a pretty even match.

It depends on what is available. Outback is one of the best restaurants in Columbia SC, but poor on St Simon;s Island in Georgia, where the residents told us to go to Blackwater Grill (independent). God, they were right!

The reference to the Olive Garden is misleading. Their presence actually supports the elitist contention that flyover people prefer bad corporate food. Those Olive Gardens are there for the tourists walking five abreast, slowly, through midtown, so that they won't have to eat sushi or tofu. Much of midtown has been transformed into what they are apparently plan to build in the Green Zone.

Although I do agree with the sentiment. It continues as you go upscale too. The travel section is replete with stories about trips that cost upwards of a thousand dollars a day.

A couple of years ago, a middle eastern friend of mine dragged me to Outback for a drink (only bar in that neighborhood). I thought "what the hell? The guy's worked all over the US, this highway shit is probably all he knows."

Turns out the locals had adopted this particular Outback Steakhouse as the local bar. It WAS the neighborhood bar, and it fucking rocked. Everybody knew everybody, the bartenders knew all the customers, everyone was watching The Game, etc.

Weird. Home is where you find it, I guess. I resolved to find gems among the strip malls from then on.
.

I grew up on LI, and my parents always took us to chain restaurants, because as consumers, they could not invest the the time in finding out what non-chain places were really good. As an adult, I don't have an automatic revulsion towards chains - some are quite good. Legal Sea Foods and McCormick & Schmicks are top seafood places, IMHO. Smith & Wollensky and The Palm are high-end chains for steak houses.

For mid-range options like Chijlis or Applebees, those are fine for lunch, if you want a burger that is not some warmed over BK junk.

It depends on what is available. Outback is one of the best restaurants in Columbia SC, but poor on St Simon;s Island in Georgia, where the residents told us to go to Blackwater Grill (independent). God, they were right!

Al is a right wing elitist snob! Who knew?

Not all chain restaurants are created equal. Outback and Chili's are an entirely different species from Appleby's or Fridays, both of which really are pretty bad. But PF Chang's is perfectly edible and a much safer bet than eating Chinese at an independent restaurant if you don't know which ones are good. Fancy food and drink are luxury items in that they require a significant investment of time. Many Americans would rather invest their time in things other than food and drink research, particularly where they get no social cache from being in the know. I don't see why that's any reason to hold them in contempt.

Chili's, Outback, and especially The Olive Garden suck. However, that being said, I love The Cheesecake Factory!

Sometimes, you just get a hankering for some Avacado Egg Rolls and some Orange Chicken and The Cheesecake Factory is the only place to go.

They also have the best big salads.

And, as for "family owned restaurants", I bet if you put up the median chain restaurant against the median family owned place, it would be a pretty even match.

& I have loved Legal Seafoods since they were a hole in the wall in Inman Square. Back then you had to pay when you ordered, but you knew it was worth it!

The real problem with surburban chain restaurants isn't the food or decor, it's all the suburban loser dimwit patrons who are in there when you drop in for a meal.

I am actually shocked when I go to places like, say, Florida, and see how few good non-chain restaurants exist there. My impression is that, for a lot of the rest of the country, places like Outback and Olive Garden really are decent eating options. But not in the NYC metro area!

Having lived both in the heart of NYC and in suburban Florida, I can say we are in total agreement.

I guess my point is that most of the country is not like the NYC metro area. And the chain restaurants wouldn't exist if it were.

Oh, and I second Doug T. for POTD.

Far be it from me to defend the Times, but did anyone here actually RTFA?

The reviews are uniformly positive.

Apparently not. This was actually the most surprising (and annoying) thing about this article to me. Despite the horridly condescending descriptions of the restaurants, every restaurant except TGI Fridays got a more positive than not review on the food. Pretty much every one followed this formula: snarky description of the restaurant, fear of what the food would taste like, surprise that it was really pretty good, comment that one item kind of sucked, conclude that the ambience is lacking. One would think if you're going to be a total snot about the place you're reviewing, you could have the decency to pan it.

Chains give people familiarity and enable them not to have to guess about the menu. Familiar local, family restaurants do the same but you have to already know them and some portion of the population will not, now, give them a chance because of the deformation of taste produced by theme restaurants. I've eaten at applebees and others like that a few times, and every time we go to florida to visit the relatives we are forced to eat at a certain number of chains or aspiring chains. These restaurants almost uniformly push some form of "entertainment" or image over actual food. It enables them to seamlessly sub in new waiters and cooks because the menu and the sales method are so boldfaced and upfront. The old style restaurant expected you to bring the entertainment (no coloring books for kids) and relied on good food and good service to bring you back.

The food at most of these places is gag worthy but I'd like to point out I have had horrible meals in NYC, to, at definitively one off restaurants. The restaurant biz takes huge talent in terms of managing the house, managing the food supply/wastage and managing the cooking and staff. Rarely does one get a unified great team in a little family resturant.

aimai

Matt and Ezra seem to have internalized a classic right wing trope, where if anyone who is liberal or part of the 'cultural elite' even ackowledges that cultural or lifestyle differences exist in this country, they are automatically guilty of condescension. Thus an article that actually praises the food at chain restaurants is somehow deemed elitist.

I actually thought the article did a pretty good job of explaining the wariness that exists towards chain restaurants among urban foodie types, while at the same time explaining why they're so popular. That's exactly the type of thing that good journalism is supposed to do.

You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

Wait, when did I say that? I said that there are plenty of options in and around where I live, and I cannot for the life me figure out why somebody with the options I have would choose to eat at the chains. The food is generally mediocre, drinks are poured through electronic measurers so that my 7&7 is really just a 7Up with a half of a shot in it, and it contributes to a corporatizing/homogeonization of the culture.

That being said, I'm well aware that some people have little other option for eating out. I have friends that live in a part of northern Virginia (Ashburn, I think) that is entirely made up of strip malls, office parks, and apartment comlexes. I think the closest thing to a neighborhood withing 45 mins in a car to them is a Toll Brothers development.

And once I found myself stuck in Lenoir, NC, after midnight and eating the single egg with unmelted cheese sprikled on top that passed for an omlette, wishing that the nearby Papa John's, Dominos, McDonald's, Long John Silver's, and everything else were open late.

I'm no snob, and I just appreciate fairly yummy food appearing before me. Yeah, I'll eat at Friday's, Chili's, even BK--or whatever--but Outback and Olive Garden over-salt everything to a ridiculous degree. I honestly don't get it.

But, I much prefer a small, local-owned restaurants that serve *really* delicious food. Obviously, I feel good helping a local small business, but let's face it--the quality diff between a "Big Box Restaurant" and a true "Real Cooks Work Here Restaurant" isn't even debatable.

jh demo

p.s. A "gourmet" is a foodie, whereas a "gourmand" is a glutton; the two are not interchangeable synonyms!

On my college roadtrips we developed the theory that any town large enough to have a McDonalds would also have something better than McDonalds.

The fact that a restaurant is not a chain is no guarantee of quality--I've had plenty of bad meals or lousy service at such. In my own suburb the local Chinese just isn't that good. All 3 Thai restaurants are excellent but you only need one. No Indian or cheap Mexican. And PF Chang's, which just opened nearby, is really good. Including reasonably sized servings so you don't have to go on to a show with black bean shrimp in your bag, and desserts small enough to satisfy one peckish appetite. So yeah, I'd happily eat in a PF Chang's anywhere, and knowing what I'm getting (my kids will eat appetizers, we won't leave toting a bunch of food through the rest of the day, I know what price and service to expect) is part of that appeal.

Don't knock predictability. Once in NYC we ate in an Argentinian grill place. Pretty good, but we assumed they would not charge our little one, around 3, who had a plate of rice and beans, the full freight. We guessed wrong. After that, a Chili's or similar place with its predictability looks more appealing.

You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

podunk towns often do have an excellent hole in the wall, but you can't eat there every single time you go out. or i couldn't.

To me the problem is quality verses quantity. The chain restaurants in particular are obsessed with giving the customer a good deal. Which means huge portions and a lot of free stuff (bread, salad etc.)… If they reduced portion sizes maybe they could focus more on the ingredients/cooking while still keep prices reasonable. Needless to say smaller portions would also mean less waste (or waist).

Cheescake Factory is one of the most excessive, disgusting restaurants in existence. I'm not much of a dieter or exercise maniac, but I know that by avoiding Cheesecake Factory at all costs I am going to live a few years longer.

A cheescake is one of those desserts that isn't fluffy... it is pure rich fat and butter goodness, and its composition requires all decent servings of it to be small. The Cheescake Factory multiples a normal portion of this delicacy by 5 and piles on the whipped cream, laughingly calling it an individual slice and carting it off to peddle to naive restaurant-goers as a normal desert. This wouldn't be horrendous if the main courses of this place weren't so unnecessarily monstrous. If I have to go again, I would go during lunchtime only when I'm starving, since they actually serve dinner-size "lunch" portions that are almost normal.

I'll wrap up my rant by saying that my Mom was visiting me in Chicago for Yom Kippur, and we decided to break our day long holiday fast by going to Cheescake Factory. Even after not eating for 24 hours we could barely get through half on the slop on our plates before giving up (NO, we did not have a dessert). Part of good cooking and good flavor is the right amount of a tasteful delicacy. The Factory is just piles it on too much, in its portions and decor, and errs on the side of giving you more food than what you need, and daring you to take a doggie bag home.

The Factory represents everything that is wrong with this country. And that isn't hyperbole. If all of these restaurants closed down overnight sometime around November of 2000, these Bush years would almost be tolerable.

Living in Korea some of these places are a godsend. Most of the western style restaurants here are either absolute crap, stupidly overpriced or some sort of bizarre fushion (nachos with warm slices of American cheese, ketchup and Korean chili paste, no............). At least with Outback etc, you know you're not going to get something awful *shrugs*

Never ate them back home, wasn't any in northern Maine and as a college kid I never had enough money for stuff as expensive as the chain family restaurants.

Cheescake Factory is one of the most excessive, disgusting restaurants in existence. I'm not much of a dieter or exercise maniac, but I know that by avoiding Cheesecake Factory at all costs I am going to live a few years longer.

A cheescake is one of those desserts that isn't fluffy... it is pure rich fat and butter goodness, and its composition requires all decent servings of it to be small. The Cheescake Factory multiples a normal portion of this delicacy by 5 and piles on the whipped cream, laughingly calling it an individual slice and carting it off to peddle to naive restaurant-goers as a normal desert. This wouldn't be horrendous if the main courses of this place weren't so unnecessarily monstrous. If I have to go again, I would go during lunchtime only when I'm starving, since they actually serve dinner-size "lunch" portions that are almost normal.

I'll wrap up my rant by saying that my Mom was visiting me in Chicago for Yom Kippur, and we decided to break our day long holiday fast by going to Cheescake Factory. Even after not eating for 24 hours we could barely get through half on the slop on our plates before giving up (NO, we did not have a dessert). Part of good cooking and good flavor is the right amount of a tasteful delicacy. The Factory is just piles it on too much, in its portions and decor, and errs on the side of giving you more food than what you need, and daring you to take a doggie bag home.

The Factory represents everything that is wrong with this country. And that isn't hyperbole. If all of these restaurants closed down overnight sometime around November of 2000, these Bush years would almost be tolerable.

These chain restaurants not only serve crappy food, they hoover money out of local economies, providing a couple of minimum-wage, crappy jobs in return. One more factor in the increasing stratification of American society.

They push out local competition by enormous advantages in economies of scale, marketing power and purchasing leverage.

They sign 5-year leases which they walk away from freely after 3 years if they don't like the returns, yet shopping malls and strip centers will give them advantageous terms, while screwing their independent tenants.

If you have no good restaurant alternatives where you live, it's because of these operations. You couldn't pay me to patronize them, even at the cost of a fight with my wife.

Most chain restaurants offer food that is barely acceptable; you know what you're getting, it's not garbage, but it's crud nonetheless.

As for Outback Steakhouse: sorry, but I'm always surprised to read that people still eat steak. It's 2008, folks.

1. Manhattan residents do not go to Olive Garden. those are for tourists.

2. yes, I can believe that some Murray Hill residents go to the 23rd street Outback. figures.

3. um, none of those writers were restaurant critics for the NY Times. none of them.

4. look, chain food isn't that good. yes, if the line cooks are competent it won't be awful...that's kind of the point of Sysco type food.

5. but it's true that chain restaurants are generally avoided by NYC residents.

6. as for people who moved here from elsewhere...I'd venture that people who move to NYC tend to be a more sophisticated lot than normal for "back home"

Doug T at 9:45 AM FTW.

if you cared 1 bit about the environment you wouldnt patronize steak houses or eat meat at all for that matter.

oh, but you drive a prius and have florescent bulbs so youre doing your part to prevent climate change.

ephus hits on an important point: non-chain American restaurants (and this applies to some extent in Britain too, making it something of an Anglo/Protestant thing) are often really shitty towards kids.

But there's room for smart pieces to be written, for instance on the economic advantages of the chain/franchise operator over the sole proprietor, or on the dynamics of crap towns where, on the one hand, the chains may either be pushing out sole proprietors or filling a gap those restaurants won't occupy (such as Grand Moff Texan's example). That, as an accompaniment to the reviews, would have been smart, but it would also have taken more than sending out a bunch of writers to RedOlivebees.

You know, I'm curious about this assumption that the chains have driven all the wonderful mom-and-pop restaurants out of business. Did the the malls really replace thriving locally-owned culinary scenes? I'm skeptical.

It seems to me that Americans eat out a lot more now than they used to. And I'm sure that, on average, we have better choices than we did two generations ago, when most restaurants were either diners or steak-and-chops places, when Chinese meant chop suey and "ethnic" meant Italian. Did chains replace a lot of mom and pop restaurants? To large extent, I'll bet they simply expanded the market. But let's also consider the possibility that for the most part the mom-and-pop places weren't really all that great either.

And I say this all as someone who is instinctively anti-chain and who loves the variety of options available in the coastal city where I live. But all in all, I suspect that Americans have never had it so good when it comes to eating out.

The reality is that a modest effort to learn how to cook will provide better tasting meals than what a chain will provide, and even a large percentage of expensive independents. I've mostly given up eating out, because I can cook it better, and more inexpensively, myself, especially in the summer when the garden is producing. Also, once one learns how to use ingrediants, a couple hours spent in the kitchen on the weekend will allow for quick meal preperation during the week. To top it off, it's fun. Don't even get me started on what sort of value is typically obtained on a restaurant's wine list

True enough, there can be some things which are difficult to replicate at home. Depending on where one lives, it might be tough to obtain seafood of the quality the one enjoys in the best seafood or sushi restaurants (which does not describe the mid-market chains, of course), and some wok cooking is problematic without a commercial-quality range hood. If you've ever spent thirty or even forty dollars on an entree in an expensive independent, however, that has had the taste cooked out of it, you know that avoiding mediocre chains doesn't guarantee a good dining experience.

Red Lobster and The Olive Garden are uniformly horrid, but don't take my Chipotle from me. Still, horrid or not, I will defend to the death my fellow American's right to order the hideous Admiral's Feast at Red Lobster.

Democrats are lucky this article came out now, rather than a few weeks before the election. It's just another example of the kind of elitism that pervade the entire ethos of coastal liberalism.

Have Obama and Hillary denounced the article yet? They should. And Obama should be thinking about writing a speech to deal with this issue, which is much more grave -- and potentially more politically damaging -- than the so-called race issue.

I grew up in Levittown, PA. When I was little there were a dozen diners within about 8 miles of me, a family owned Italian restaurant in an old Victorian house backed by forest untouched since colonial times (Bucks County was founded in 1682), a dozen other family owned restaurants I can still name and I have fond memories of the few times we 'dined out' when I was a kid.

In about '82 they opened Sesame Place. Now, there is not a single chain in existence that doesn't have a 'representative' in Levittown or Langhorne. Almost none of the diners or family owned places are still around. I eat in The Burg in Trenton or go to Philly.

They bulldozed the Seafood Shanty (family owned) and replaced it with a fucking RED LOBSTER. They tore down a 'drive-in' burger shoppe and put in a Fuddruckers!

There are lots of bars but the crowds are aging mill workers. Everyone else goes to Friday's.

The other egregious thing is that they replaced all that forest with McMansions and the strip malls with the obligatory Best Buy/Petco/Old Navy/BedBathBeyond/etc. Those who live in the McMansions probably won't eat anywhere but chains. Heaven forfend they try something unknown.
You can go a mile in any direction from Sesame Place and not come across any retail or restaurant that is unfamiliar to anyone.

Thank god the Dairy Delite is still there to be written about in the NYT in an article about Obama's PA campaign...


Did anyone actually read the article? Most of the reviews leaned positive and focused on the good points rather than shred the bad stuff. Some mentioned what they will have 'next time'. I got the distinct impression that the editors told these reviewers to review their next outing with family or friends near where they live. They weren't condescending at all.

I think there is some projection going on. Just because someone is reviewing a restaurant you've been to before and feel superior to doesn't mean they are looking down their nose at the unwashed masses like you are.

Food and eating are very personal subjects. Pleasure by definition is subjective. If someone is satisfied with something, they are really satisfied. Perhaps they could more satisfied with something else if they knew about it. But we only know what we know. I would just recommend to people that they try something new and different. Surprises are more often than not pleasant ones.
I myself prefer to eat food cooked by family and friends. The next best thing is food prepared by people who cook professionally, but have a love for their work. I find that these people are more often than not found in privately run restaurants. Fortunately, in Japan where I live there is no problem finding excellent food and people who take great pride in their work.

i miss Bonanza's.

Food and eating are very personal subjects. Pleasure by definition is subjective. If someone is satisfied with something, they are really satisfied. Perhaps they could more satisfied with something else if they knew about it. But we only know what we know. I would just recommend to people that they try something new and different. Surprises are more often than not pleasant ones.
I myself prefer to eat food cooked by family and friends. The next best thing is food prepared by people who cook professionally, but have a love for their work. I find that these people are usually found in privately run restaurants. But not always. Fortunately, in Japan, where I live, there is no problem finding excellent food and people who take great pride in their work.

The Subway sandwich shop on Broad Street in NYC always had a line out the door when I worked down there. Mind-boggling. There are so many better and cheaper places to eat great sandwiches, but people would still gravitate to the familiar.

I guess I can tell that there are very few business consultants on this blog. The thing about Outback is that is has an entire market mix when well run. The beverages, menu, food, speed of service, kid friendliness, etc are all part of the mix. the problem with most mom and pops is that they may hit one part of the mix like the hamburgers but the place is visually unappealing, the service is bad, new customers are treated as outsiders, and the price is not good.

Outback is not meant to compete with Ruth Chris or the Palm but it out competes all of its equivalents such as Lone Star, Longhorn, etc.

When I travel, I realize that many of the places I think of as mom and pop are really regional chains.

If Baja Fresh served beer it would be my favorite place to eat.

The food at a lot of restaurants in NYC is over-rated and over-priced, not to mention served with a heaping helping of attitude. When we lived in Queens my wife and I would often drive out to Long Island to go to a Bertucci's. The food was decent and cheap, and we didn't feel like sardines crammed into a table that was too small, or feel rushed by rude wait staff.

Of course there were many restaurants in the city we loved. My favorite was Elias' Corner in Astoria.

  • All chain restaurants aren't bad: Houston's has excellent food, and has two locations in Manhattan, neither in especially touristy areas (The Citigroup building and on Park Ave. South). The food at P.F. Chang's is superior to most local Chinese restaurants I've been to as well.
  • Good local restaurants sometimes become chain restaurants. One example is the North Jersey restaurant Baumgart's, which now has several locations. There are plenty of examples of good local restaurants in Manhattan that became local chains (e.g., Better Burger, Rosa Mexicana, etc.).
  • Given the celebrity chef culture, even some high-end restaurants have become essentially chains. Chefs used to at least give their different restaurants different names, but now sometimes they just open the exact same restaurant in different cities (e.g., Nobu).
  • What struck me, as a stranger to suburbia, were the huge waits. I flee in terror as it is from some New York eateries with half the reported times and a lot fewer kids, although more than enough noise of their own.

    I expected a mildly humorous, mildly sympathetic description of the experience, the stock and trade of articles on life in the community. I expected people to find a reasonably reliable welcome to a family friendly restaurant. I expected an upbeat tone but lousy food, and I could not help noticing that while most of the reviews praised the food, the descriptions of it were turnoffs. I don't think it's too snotty to say I feel lucky as a New Yorker to have lots more choices, including some deservedly famous cheesecake and other competition to the chains. I can't imagine wanting well-done steak, much less chewy well-done steak, regardless of price.

    But somehow I imagined it was a tradeoff, like the neighborhood pizza slice that's god awful but right there and faster than the extra half mile walk, much less cooking and shopping. How strange that people put up with the noise and waits on top of bad food.

    A relevant anecdote:

    The Saturday night before last, the domestic partner and I were heading off to an allegedly good local restaurant (one that had been described as such by Zagat -- an inexpensive Asian place that got a 23 or a 24 for food). The Zagat page said this restaurant was open until 11pm, so we headed over there. We got there a little before 10pm and the surly proprietor informed us that they had closed early due to a lack of business. Since most local restaurants around us are closed by 10pm, and we were too hungry to drive around, we stopped into the local TGI Friday's out of desperation. TGI Friday's happened to have a tuna burger on focaccia (the winner of a Food Network recipe contest) that was excellent. The other entree we got wasn't as good, but I'd get the tuna burger again.

    There is very little culture of food here in the US and if one wants to eat well, it is safest to eat at home.

    That said, the chain cafeterias in the South are quite adequate for simple unpretentious food and a nice atmosphere -- or they used to be.

    I'd like to not only defend P.F. Chang's, but the one in White Plains in particular. It's very convenient for coming out of the city to meet people in Westchester, and is among the best Chinese restaurants in Westchester.

    When we lived in Queens my wife and I would often drive out to Long Island to go to a Bertucci's. The food was decent and cheap, and we didn't feel like sardines crammed into a table that was too small, or feel rushed by rude wait staff.

    These are the ravings of a crazy person.

    If you live in any decent sized city and don't have kids, there is really no reason to go to chain restaurants when you have literally hundreds of unique options to choose from. Here in Philadelphia, though it's generally not considered foodie mecca, you can have an excellent meal from just about any culture around the world for approximately the same price as a meal at Applebee's.
    I think the mistake some people make is assuming that non-chain restaurants in the city have to be formal and high-end. That's simply not the case. All you need is a little curiosity and willingness to try something new. I understand the appeal of the chains, especially if that's really the only option for those with kids. For the DINKs in the city, might as well live it up.

    Well, there's always Tad's Steaks... LOL

    Bigby: I'm sorry, but the Seafood Shanty in Bucks Cty sucked, too.