Outback Strikes Back

Ezra Klein's right to bemoan the sneering condescension in this NYT piece on suburban chain restaurants. For me, this is made all the worse by the knowledge that the attitude of contempt is almost certainly fake. I was actually born and raised in Manhattan by fancy-pants parents who wouldn't dream of darkening the door of an Outback Steakhouse. Indeed, to the best of my knowledge by father has never tasted the joys of Chili's (those two are my favorites).

All of which has mostly made me aware of how rare this is. Most of New York City's elitists grew up in very conventional middle class suburbs and then moved to the city sometime after college. They may look like -- indeed, be -- Greenpoint hipsters now, but they come from the same places as all the other college educated white people in this country. Moreover, one suspects that the exotic locales visited by the Times' intrepid correspondents -- such places as Westchester and northern New Jersey -- are just where many Times readers live and dare I venture to guess that perhaps a few of the Times's writers and editors even commute in from the suburbs. Indeed, their section on the Olive Garden might have mentioned that there are three Olive Gardens in New York City one of which is about five blocks from the NYT building.

Comments

The most disdainful, rude, and obnoxious true sons of New York City have always been the ones who grew up in Des Moines. Real NYers are pretty normal and surprisingly nice.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | May 5, 2008 9:27 AM

Matt, the truth is that most chain restaurants are atrocious. Friday's, Chili's, and Applebee's serve almost uniformly horrid food. I mean, aesthetically, I wouldn't on principle object to eating at chain restaurants if they didn't serve dogfood. The problem is, their cooks don't know how to cook, and their servers generally are poorly paid and suffer very high turnover.

Compare this to highbrow chain service or nice locally owned restaurants, where the staff often serve 10 or 15 year tenures and are well paid and the cooks really know how to cook.

I will say that Outback is, in my experience at least, several notches above the rest. The food there is usually pretty good. All steaks are served well done, all the time, no matter how they're ordered, and the service is typical, but the food is pretty good I think.

Posted by The Puzzled Ibex | May 5, 2008 9:31 AM

I'm a daughter of the suburbs--IMO a lot of those chains *do* really suck but some are pretty good. What's annoying & weird about the article is the anthropological tone.

Posted by Katherine | May 5, 2008 9:32 AM

The reviews make sense from a food critic's view. Those restaurants serve crap. I eat there, but I'm not a gourmand. You send a high end food critic in to review a shitty chain restaurant in downtown White Plains (an ugly city), you can't be surprised at the results. If anything, blame the editors who approved the idea.

Posted by Helter | May 5, 2008 9:32 AM

The reviews make sense from a food critic's view. Those restaurants serve crap. I eat there, but I'm not a gourmand. You send a high end food critic in to review a shitty chain restaurant in downtown White Plains (an ugly city), you can't be surprised at the results. If anything, blame the editors who approved the idea.

I never understood the chain restaurant haters. There is a reason they are called chain restaurants. You can go to one in NYC or Beijing or Prague and know exactly what you are getting. You aren't going there because you expect some fancy pants meal. If you go to a chain expecting a fancy pants meal, you have some kind of malfunction. Why the sends a reviewer to a chain is a question that ,sadly, I don't have an answer for. Then again, I think I do. The people that run the NY Times are just plain idiots(See the MY post about their dumb op-ed today).

Posted by Joe Klein's conscience | May 5, 2008 9:39 AM

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

Posted by Katherine | May 5, 2008 9:40 AM

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

Posted by Katherine | May 5, 2008 9:41 AM

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

Posted by Katherine | May 5, 2008 9:41 AM

The insipid batter they call ink at the NYT grows more tiresome by the day.

Posted by joejoejoe | May 5, 2008 9:42 AM

I don't have a problem with chain restaurants in general but those cheap steakhouse chains, like Outback, Applebees etc are really pretty bad. I have just given up on them all together. The steaks are almost uniformly poorly cooked and really chewy. Its really not worth the reduced price.

Fortunately for me, I have other options. There are some pretty good and relatively inexpensive Argentinian steakhouses where I live and every now and then I can splurge and go for Ruth's Chris or Morton's. Also, I can grill my own of course.

Posted by brent | May 5, 2008 9:43 AM

You know, Matt, the Olive Garden that's "five blocks from the NYT building" is in Times Square -- it's there precisely for the tourist crowd. NYers are not likely to eat there much, not because of the food per se, but because the restaurants in Times Square are (1) crowded, and (2) overpriced (i.e., "tourist pricing").

Of course, not to be a snob, but if you can't find better Italian food than Olive Garden in New York freakin' City, you're really not looking very hard.

Posted by Glenn | May 5, 2008 9:44 AM

I'm from the suburbs and I grew up on chain restaurants. After 20 years of the same old boring food, it really does begin to look like crap. Why eat at Chili's when Pad Thai has much better food for less?

Posted by eriks | May 5, 2008 9:45 AM

You go into some of these suburbs in New Jersey, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the local restaurants and cafes have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Emeril craze, and the Rachel Ray craze, and the Food Network has said that somehow these communities are gonna eat well and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to Applebees or Outback or Chilis as a way to have a nice night out with their kids.

Posted by Doug T | May 5, 2008 9:45 AM

I don't object to these places based on their food. I object to them based on the problem of making the country uniform and boring. There was a time when you could go from city to city and see different restaurants and businesses. It made each place have its own unique attitude. Now it's Outback, Chili's, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, rinse, repeat. Larger cities, such as N.Y. and Chicago, have resisted being completely chained over, but a lot of small and medium sized cities, especially those that are growing quickly, are just all beginning to look alike. That upsets me. I feel we are losing a lot a nation culturally when cities become all prefabbed, chain, and essentially interchanagble.

Posted by Shochu John | May 5, 2008 9:46 AM

Matt's being defensive. I remember well a college road trip where our native-born Manhattanites were horrified when someone seriously proposed stopping at a McDonald's. In any case, many of the NYTs Sunday readers outside the City in places like New Hampshire, Minneapolis, San Francisco or wherever, are even more snobbish, which is why they read the NYT in the first place, and I'm sure they loved this article.

Personally I won't set foot in an Outback Steakhouse - I don't hate all chain restaurants but the Outback and Olive Garden ad campaigns, with their pseudo-Australians and condescending caricatures of Italian Americans, annoy the hell out of me, to the point that I will refuse to go into their restaurants.

Posted by vanya | May 5, 2008 9:49 AM

We live across the street from one of the NYC Outbacks:

1. It is extremely busy, seven days a week, with most non-tourists.

2. It is the most small child friendly restaurant in the neighborhood. Coloring book menu, kids drinks and televisions.

3. If you avoid the steaks - or get a steak sandwich (which is a much more reasonably sized meal) - the prices are not particularly expensive.

4. Quick and friendly wait staff makes up for a multitude of sins.

Posted by ephus | May 5, 2008 9:49 AM

The other thing about them is that with a few exceptions, they're not really all that cheap. You can generally find much better deals in big cities.

I agree. I live in a small city (250,000 or so people), and there are at least 15 Italain places that taste better than Olive Garden, ranging from cheap family-style dining up to more high-end, expensive places. Besides that, we don't even actually have an Olive Garden in the city; the closest one is a half hour's drive down the highway, next to a giant suburban mall. And for some reason, my Mom always wants to eat there.

In fact, there are almost none of the Rich Doctors Tax Shelter chains within the city. Except for an Applebee's and a Chili's, they're all out in the suburban "Shoppe" type places. But even then, there's a ton of reasonably priced local alternatives nearby. The popularity of the chains honestly astounds me, since whether you're in the suburbs or the city there are generally locally owned restaurants that have been well established and liked by the community for years.

I think it was Patton Oswalt four years ago who listed things he'd be willing to suffer through if it would prevent Bush from being re-elected:

1. Crapping his pants every time he blinks his eyes.
2. Watching puppies freeze to death.
3. Having all Italian food taste like it does at the Olive Garden.

Posted by mark f | May 5, 2008 9:53 AM

Blast from the Past: Notes From The Olive Garden.

Posted by wiredog | May 5, 2008 9:54 AM

What the heck is Matthew talking about???

Yeah, people grew up outside of Manhattan and most likely ate at chain restaurants. Then moved to Manhattan... and learned that a real, individually-owned restaurant is better than a chain! Hence the snobbery about chain-restaurants: it comes from people who learned better!

Does Matthew not understand that, or am I missing something?

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 9:55 AM

The most disdainful, rude, and obnoxious true sons of New York City have always been the ones who grew up in Des Moines.

There's a movie quote along those lines from back in the '40s, in Double Indemnity:

Phyllis: I'm a native Californian. Born right here in Los Angeles.

Walter Neff: They say all native Californians come from Iowa.

Posted by Haggai | May 5, 2008 9:59 AM

The reviews make sense from a food critic's view. Those restaurants serve crap.

Far be it from me to defend the Times, but did anyone here actually RTFA?

The reviews are uniformly positive.

And the "anthropological" tone can be rightfully attributed to the fact that no one ever writes reviews of these types of restaurants.

Posted by Oracle | May 5, 2008 10:02 AM

Also, I don't understand Matthew's point about "places as Westchester and northern New Jersey -- are just where many Times readers live".

I grew up in northern New Jersey and now live in Westchester (and lived in Manhattan in between). When I grew up, I never ate at a chain restaurant (other than during car trips, and even then not often) - we always ate at locally owned restaurants, which are plentiful and pretty good in northern New Jersey. And now that I live in Westchester, again, I never eat at a chain restaurant. So, you know, places like Outback and PF Changs are completely foreign to me. So why couldn't they be foreign for other people who read the Times and live in the NY suburbs?

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 10:02 AM

Does Matthew not understand that, or am I missing something?

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 9:55 AM

Talk about having too many good choices on the menu!

And Outback Steakhouse has the only decent bread I've found in Korea.

Posted by aleks | May 5, 2008 10:03 AM

OMG, I agree with Al.

Maybe it's a bad dream and I'll wake up soon.

Posted by roac | May 5, 2008 10:07 AM

For whatever it's worth: the Outback on 23rd Street in Manhattan, (which is the only Outback I've ever eaten at), serves unexpectedly good meat for a chain restaurant. I will go out on a limb and assert it's the best twenty-five dollar steak in New York City.

I'm not sure if it's representative of the chain in general, though.

Posted by James Gary | May 5, 2008 10:09 AM

The worst steak I ever had in a restaurant was at Ruth's Chris in Washington, D.C.

Posted by labradog | May 5, 2008 10:09 AM

I haven't eaten in an Outback (I grew up on a beef farm, and if I never see another steak, it's OK by me), but I have eaten in Applebee's and Olive Garden. There are far better, as well as less expensive, family-style and Italian restaurants within a few minutes walk both of them. However, I think it's hard for tourists, especially tourists with kids, to figure out which of the abundance of local restaurants they would like, so a chain is often the easiest choice. But that's why you ask a local snob.

In small town America where I grew up, there are a few local restaurants that are pretty good, but they are pretty few and far between. In a lot of small towns, the Pizza Hut is the gourmet option.

Posted by RobNYNY | May 5, 2008 10:09 AM

The worst steak I ever had in a restaurant was at Ruth's Chris in Washington, D.C.

Posted by labradog | May 5, 2008 10:10 AM

Also - what Glenn said about the Olive Garden's in NYC. There's here for the tourists! That's why Times Square has TGI Fridays, and Hard Rock Cafe, and all the rest.

Also also, note to Matthew - the Times has moved to their new building - they are no longer on West 43rd. They are now located on 8th Avenue between 40th and 41st.

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 10:10 AM

For some people, for better or worse, Outback serves their favorite meal of the week/month/year. It's all relative.

There is a world of people who wish they could have such a nice meal regularly.

But whatever place you choose to dine that provides "good" food in a timely fashion at a reasonable cost, there will be people of better means looking down their noses at your barbaric tastes.

I just saw the Iron Man eat a Burger King cheeseburger for crying out loud. I couldn't help but feel superior.

I've been out America for sixteen months now, and I'm craving an Old Timer from Chili's. I guess, for some, that makes me the fool.

Posted by john stephen lewis | May 5, 2008 10:12 AM

I'm sorry, Outback and PF Chang's are fantastic. Applebee's, Chili's, Ruby Tuesday, and Olive Garden are pretty good as well, if you know what to order. TGI Friday's sort of sucks. And I say this as a bona fide NYC elitist, who grew up in the suburbs of Florida.

But the point is, in most places in the country these are good options. In NY there are much better options, so why would you go to Olive Garden when there is a much better hole-in-the-wall Italian place down the street?

Posted by right | May 5, 2008 10:13 AM

I also live in Westchester and never eat in chain restaurants. There are hundreds of eateries in the suburbs that aren't owned by scumbag corporations. Just look.

Posted by Joel | May 5, 2008 10:13 AM

The worst steak I ever had in a restaurant was at Ruth's Chris in Washington, D.C.

Posted by labradog | May 5, 2008 10:15 AM

Doug T.--Perfect...

I am mildly annoyed at Matt for referencing this article, which I skipped in yesterday's paper because I thought it would be exactly what it was.

What makes it a dumb article is that none of this is news. Boy, I am shocked, SHOCKED, that much of the food at chain restaurants is pedestrian, but sometimes the people who work there are nice.

I do not personally go to chain restaurants if it can be avoided (traveling with children is the exception--we go into "it's just fuel" mode).

Two basic reasons to go to a restaurant--

1. You don't feel liking cooking (too tired, no food at home, not at home, etc).
2. You want to eat food that's tastes or looks better than you can make yourself.

Most Americans eat out for the first reason, and chain restaurants fulfill that need (as does your local diner, or Seinfeldian Luncheonette, if you are an urbanite). More sadly, chain restaurants fulfill the second need in many parts of the country (those big square states in the middle).

Posted by Partisan | May 5, 2008 10:15 AM

In small town America where I grew up, there are a few local restaurants that are pretty good, but they are pretty few and far between. In a lot of small towns, the Pizza Hut is the gourmet option.

Rob, shhhhhhh! You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

Posted by Oracle | May 5, 2008 10:19 AM

Somehow I managed to drive across the United States (twice!) and never eat at a chain restaurant. Though maybe the options along routes 70 and 80 are better than the rest of "middle america."

But I've never heard such disdain for otherwise-decent "American grill" chains. They serve filling meals in convenient locations when you want to meet up with friends in an accessible, nearby area. I bow to no one in my urban elitist credentials, but I detest this "food-choice-as-moral-arbiter" thing.

Posted by Tyro | May 5, 2008 10:21 AM

We live in a rural Missouri town of 1400 people. We have to drive 37 miles to get to a McDonald's, and 59 to get to an Outback. While I admit that we are not gourmets, the Outback consistantly provides us with a good steak, good service, and a nice night out with the family. You are fortunate to have the choices you do.

Posted by kim p | May 5, 2008 10:21 AM

My wife doesn't like to take a chance on unknown quantity restaurants, so I eat at chains more than I would like. I agree with the critique of the homogenizing effect of chain restaurants and general strip-mallification, where every town has its Best Buy, Home Depot, Target, and Applebees in a strip mall, so I'd prefer not to patronize them, but better that than a fight with the wife. Anyway Olive Garden is bloody awful, and I don't understand why anyone would wait to eat there. When I'm dictator, closing Olive Garden will be part of my first hundred days. The ribeye at Outback is generally pretty good, as are some of the sides, and the service tends to be decent - not worth waiting an hour, but I don't have the autonomy I used to. Ruby Tuesday's burgers and fries are like crack. Their other stuff isn't that good, but oh those hamburgers.

Posted by TheOtherCyrus | May 5, 2008 10:22 AM

One of the advantages of local restaurants that no one has mentioned is that they are uniquely set up to take advantage of local food supplies. Many New York Restaurants buy their produce from the Union Square farmers Market, guaranteeing that their customers are getting at least some of their meal that isn't trucked or flown across the country to get to the table.

As we head into the growing season on the east coast, finding food that is locally grown is an easy way to not only eat healthy but also help reduce emissions. That spinach coming from upstate NY is easier on the environment.

If eating food that is local to where I live is considered elitist, sign me up immediately.

Posted by swarty | May 5, 2008 10:23 AM

You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

I didn't say that "every podunk town" has a lot of good non-chain restaurants. I said that northern New Jersey and Westchester, i.e., the New York Times's local area, have a ton of decent-to-good non-chain restaurants.

I am actually shocked when I go to places like, say, Florida, and see how few good non-chain restaurants exist there. My impression is that, for a lot of the rest of the country, places like Outback and Olive Garden really are decent eating options. But not in the NYC metro area!

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 10:26 AM

Chili's, Outback, and especially The Olive Garden suck. However, that being said, I love The Cheesecake Factory!

Sometimes, you just get a hankering for some Avacado Egg Rolls and some Orange Chicken and The Cheesecake Factory is the only place to go.

They also have the best big salads.

And, as for "family owned restaurants", I bet if you put up the median chain restaurant against the median family owned place, it would be a pretty even match.

Posted by Jmo | May 5, 2008 10:26 AM

It depends on what is available. Outback is one of the best restaurants in Columbia SC, but poor on St Simon;s Island in Georgia, where the residents told us to go to Blackwater Grill (independent). God, they were right!

Posted by tomdurk | May 5, 2008 10:26 AM

The reference to the Olive Garden is misleading. Their presence actually supports the elitist contention that flyover people prefer bad corporate food. Those Olive Gardens are there for the tourists walking five abreast, slowly, through midtown, so that they won't have to eat sushi or tofu. Much of midtown has been transformed into what they are apparently plan to build in the Green Zone.

Although I do agree with the sentiment. It continues as you go upscale too. The travel section is replete with stories about trips that cost upwards of a thousand dollars a day.

Posted by jayackroyd | May 5, 2008 10:26 AM

A couple of years ago, a middle eastern friend of mine dragged me to Outback for a drink (only bar in that neighborhood). I thought "what the hell? The guy's worked all over the US, this highway shit is probably all he knows."

Turns out the locals had adopted this particular Outback Steakhouse as the local bar. It WAS the neighborhood bar, and it fucking rocked. Everybody knew everybody, the bartenders knew all the customers, everyone was watching The Game, etc.

Weird. Home is where you find it, I guess. I resolved to find gems among the strip malls from then on.
.

Posted by Grand Moff Texan | May 5, 2008 10:27 AM

I grew up on LI, and my parents always took us to chain restaurants, because as consumers, they could not invest the the time in finding out what non-chain places were really good. As an adult, I don't have an automatic revulsion towards chains - some are quite good. Legal Sea Foods and McCormick & Schmicks are top seafood places, IMHO. Smith & Wollensky and The Palm are high-end chains for steak houses.

For mid-range options like Chijlis or Applebees, those are fine for lunch, if you want a burger that is not some warmed over BK junk.

Posted by KXB | May 5, 2008 10:28 AM

It depends on what is available. Outback is one of the best restaurants in Columbia SC, but poor on St Simon;s Island in Georgia, where the residents told us to go to Blackwater Grill (independent). God, they were right!

Posted by tomdurk | May 5, 2008 10:28 AM

Al is a right wing elitist snob! Who knew?

Posted by Hank Scorpio | May 5, 2008 10:28 AM

Not all chain restaurants are created equal. Outback and Chili's are an entirely different species from Appleby's or Fridays, both of which really are pretty bad. But PF Chang's is perfectly edible and a much safer bet than eating Chinese at an independent restaurant if you don't know which ones are good. Fancy food and drink are luxury items in that they require a significant investment of time. Many Americans would rather invest their time in things other than food and drink research, particularly where they get no social cache from being in the know. I don't see why that's any reason to hold them in contempt.

Posted by Led | May 5, 2008 10:29 AM

Chili's, Outback, and especially The Olive Garden suck. However, that being said, I love The Cheesecake Factory!

Sometimes, you just get a hankering for some Avacado Egg Rolls and some Orange Chicken and The Cheesecake Factory is the only place to go.

They also have the best big salads.

And, as for "family owned restaurants", I bet if you put up the median chain restaurant against the median family owned place, it would be a pretty even match.

Posted by Jmo | May 5, 2008 10:30 AM

& I have loved Legal Seafoods since they were a hole in the wall in Inman Square. Back then you had to pay when you ordered, but you knew it was worth it!

Posted by tom | May 5, 2008 10:32 AM

The real problem with surburban chain restaurants isn't the food or decor, it's all the suburban loser dimwit patrons who are in there when you drop in for a meal.

Posted by mark | May 5, 2008 10:34 AM

I am actually shocked when I go to places like, say, Florida, and see how few good non-chain restaurants exist there. My impression is that, for a lot of the rest of the country, places like Outback and Olive Garden really are decent eating options. But not in the NYC metro area!

Having lived both in the heart of NYC and in suburban Florida, I can say we are in total agreement.

I guess my point is that most of the country is not like the NYC metro area. And the chain restaurants wouldn't exist if it were.

Oh, and I second Doug T. for POTD.

Posted by Oracle | May 5, 2008 10:36 AM

Far be it from me to defend the Times, but did anyone here actually RTFA?

The reviews are uniformly positive.

Apparently not. This was actually the most surprising (and annoying) thing about this article to me. Despite the horridly condescending descriptions of the restaurants, every restaurant except TGI Fridays got a more positive than not review on the food. Pretty much every one followed this formula: snarky description of the restaurant, fear of what the food would taste like, surprise that it was really pretty good, comment that one item kind of sucked, conclude that the ambience is lacking. One would think if you're going to be a total snot about the place you're reviewing, you could have the decency to pan it.

Posted by rabbittime | May 5, 2008 10:40 AM

Chains give people familiarity and enable them not to have to guess about the menu. Familiar local, family restaurants do the same but you have to already know them and some portion of the population will not, now, give them a chance because of the deformation of taste produced by theme restaurants. I've eaten at applebees and others like that a few times, and every time we go to florida to visit the relatives we are forced to eat at a certain number of chains or aspiring chains. These restaurants almost uniformly push some form of "entertainment" or image over actual food. It enables them to seamlessly sub in new waiters and cooks because the menu and the sales method are so boldfaced and upfront. The old style restaurant expected you to bring the entertainment (no coloring books for kids) and relied on good food and good service to bring you back.

The food at most of these places is gag worthy but I'd like to point out I have had horrible meals in NYC, to, at definitively one off restaurants. The restaurant biz takes huge talent in terms of managing the house, managing the food supply/wastage and managing the cooking and staff. Rarely does one get a unified great team in a little family resturant.

aimai

Posted by aimai | May 5, 2008 10:43 AM

Matt and Ezra seem to have internalized a classic right wing trope, where if anyone who is liberal or part of the 'cultural elite' even ackowledges that cultural or lifestyle differences exist in this country, they are automatically guilty of condescension. Thus an article that actually praises the food at chain restaurants is somehow deemed elitist.

I actually thought the article did a pretty good job of explaining the wariness that exists towards chain restaurants among urban foodie types, while at the same time explaining why they're so popular. That's exactly the type of thing that good journalism is supposed to do.

Posted by RC | May 5, 2008 10:43 AM

You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

Wait, when did I say that? I said that there are plenty of options in and around where I live, and I cannot for the life me figure out why somebody with the options I have would choose to eat at the chains. The food is generally mediocre, drinks are poured through electronic measurers so that my 7&7 is really just a 7Up with a half of a shot in it, and it contributes to a corporatizing/homogeonization of the culture.

That being said, I'm well aware that some people have little other option for eating out. I have friends that live in a part of northern Virginia (Ashburn, I think) that is entirely made up of strip malls, office parks, and apartment comlexes. I think the closest thing to a neighborhood withing 45 mins in a car to them is a Toll Brothers development.

And once I found myself stuck in Lenoir, NC, after midnight and eating the single egg with unmelted cheese sprikled on top that passed for an omlette, wishing that the nearby Papa John's, Dominos, McDonald's, Long John Silver's, and everything else were open late.

Posted by mark f | May 5, 2008 10:45 AM

I'm no snob, and I just appreciate fairly yummy food appearing before me. Yeah, I'll eat at Friday's, Chili's, even BK--or whatever--but Outback and Olive Garden over-salt everything to a ridiculous degree. I honestly don't get it.

But, I much prefer a small, local-owned restaurants that serve *really* delicious food. Obviously, I feel good helping a local small business, but let's face it--the quality diff between a "Big Box Restaurant" and a true "Real Cooks Work Here Restaurant" isn't even debatable.

jh demo

p.s. A "gourmet" is a foodie, whereas a "gourmand" is a glutton; the two are not interchangeable synonyms!

Posted by jesus h democrat | May 5, 2008 10:46 AM

On my college roadtrips we developed the theory that any town large enough to have a McDonalds would also have something better than McDonalds.

The fact that a restaurant is not a chain is no guarantee of quality--I've had plenty of bad meals or lousy service at such. In my own suburb the local Chinese just isn't that good. All 3 Thai restaurants are excellent but you only need one. No Indian or cheap Mexican. And PF Chang's, which just opened nearby, is really good. Including reasonably sized servings so you don't have to go on to a show with black bean shrimp in your bag, and desserts small enough to satisfy one peckish appetite. So yeah, I'd happily eat in a PF Chang's anywhere, and knowing what I'm getting (my kids will eat appetizers, we won't leave toting a bunch of food through the rest of the day, I know what price and service to expect) is part of that appeal.

Don't knock predictability. Once in NYC we ate in an Argentinian grill place. Pretty good, but we assumed they would not charge our little one, around 3, who had a plate of rice and beans, the full freight. We guessed wrong. After that, a Chili's or similar place with its predictability looks more appealing.

Posted by Deborah | May 5, 2008 10:46 AM

You'll disrupt the fantasy of people like Al and Mark F who believe that every podunk town has a multitude of hidden culinary gems, if only the rubes took the time to figure it out!

podunk towns often do have an excellent hole in the wall, but you can't eat there every single time you go out. or i couldn't.

Posted by joshua | May 5, 2008 10:49 AM

To me the problem is quality verses quantity. The chain restaurants in particular are obsessed with giving the customer a good deal. Which means huge portions and a lot of free stuff (bread, salad etc.)… If they reduced portion sizes maybe they could focus more on the ingredients/cooking while still keep prices reasonable. Needless to say smaller portions would also mean less waste (or waist).

Posted by 2cynicalbyhalf | May 5, 2008 10:53 AM

Cheescake Factory is one of the most excessive, disgusting restaurants in existence. I'm not much of a dieter or exercise maniac, but I know that by avoiding Cheesecake Factory at all costs I am going to live a few years longer.

A cheescake is one of those desserts that isn't fluffy... it is pure rich fat and butter goodness, and its composition requires all decent servings of it to be small. The Cheescake Factory multiples a normal portion of this delicacy by 5 and piles on the whipped cream, laughingly calling it an individual slice and carting it off to peddle to naive restaurant-goers as a normal desert. This wouldn't be horrendous if the main courses of this place weren't so unnecessarily monstrous. If I have to go again, I would go during lunchtime only when I'm starving, since they actually serve dinner-size "lunch" portions that are almost normal.

I'll wrap up my rant by saying that my Mom was visiting me in Chicago for Yom Kippur, and we decided to break our day long holiday fast by going to Cheescake Factory. Even after not eating for 24 hours we could barely get through half on the slop on our plates before giving up (NO, we did not have a dessert). Part of good cooking and good flavor is the right amount of a tasteful delicacy. The Factory is just piles it on too much, in its portions and decor, and errs on the side of giving you more food than what you need, and daring you to take a doggie bag home.

The Factory represents everything that is wrong with this country. And that isn't hyperbole. If all of these restaurants closed down overnight sometime around November of 2000, these Bush years would almost be tolerable.

Posted by Jonah | May 5, 2008 10:54 AM

Living in Korea some of these places are a godsend. Most of the western style restaurants here are either absolute crap, stupidly overpriced or some sort of bizarre fushion (nachos with warm slices of American cheese, ketchup and Korean chili paste, no............). At least with Outback etc, you know you're not going to get something awful *shrugs*

Never ate them back home, wasn't any in northern Maine and as a college kid I never had enough money for stuff as expensive as the chain family restaurants.

Posted by Bosh | May 5, 2008 10:55 AM

Cheescake Factory is one of the most excessive, disgusting restaurants in existence. I'm not much of a dieter or exercise maniac, but I know that by avoiding Cheesecake Factory at all costs I am going to live a few years longer.

A cheescake is one of those desserts that isn't fluffy... it is pure rich fat and butter goodness, and its composition requires all decent servings of it to be small. The Cheescake Factory multiples a normal portion of this delicacy by 5 and piles on the whipped cream, laughingly calling it an individual slice and carting it off to peddle to naive restaurant-goers as a normal desert. This wouldn't be horrendous if the main courses of this place weren't so unnecessarily monstrous. If I have to go again, I would go during lunchtime only when I'm starving, since they actually serve dinner-size "lunch" portions that are almost normal.

I'll wrap up my rant by saying that my Mom was visiting me in Chicago for Yom Kippur, and we decided to break our day long holiday fast by going to Cheescake Factory. Even after not eating for 24 hours we could barely get through half on the slop on our plates before giving up (NO, we did not have a dessert). Part of good cooking and good flavor is the right amount of a tasteful delicacy. The Factory is just piles it on too much, in its portions and decor, and errs on the side of giving you more food than what you need, and daring you to take a doggie bag home.

The Factory represents everything that is wrong with this country. And that isn't hyperbole. If all of these restaurants closed down overnight sometime around November of 2000, these Bush years would almost be tolerable.

Posted by Jonah | May 5, 2008 10:55 AM

These chain restaurants not only serve crappy food, they hoover money out of local economies, providing a couple of minimum-wage, crappy jobs in return. One more factor in the increasing stratification of American society.

They push out local competition by enormous advantages in economies of scale, marketing power and purchasing leverage.

They sign 5-year leases which they walk away from freely after 3 years if they don't like the returns, yet shopping malls and strip centers will give them advantageous terms, while screwing their independent tenants.

If you have no good restaurant alternatives where you live, it's because of these operations. You couldn't pay me to patronize them, even at the cost of a fight with my wife.

Posted by Brautigan | May 5, 2008 10:57 AM

Most chain restaurants offer food that is barely acceptable; you know what you're getting, it's not garbage, but it's crud nonetheless.

As for Outback Steakhouse: sorry, but I'm always surprised to read that people still eat steak. It's 2008, folks.

Posted by Nick | May 5, 2008 10:58 AM

1. Manhattan residents do not go to Olive Garden. those are for tourists.

2. yes, I can believe that some Murray Hill residents go to the 23rd street Outback. figures.

3. um, none of those writers were restaurant critics for the NY Times. none of them.

4. look, chain food isn't that good. yes, if the line cooks are competent it won't be awful...that's kind of the point of Sysco type food.

5. but it's true that chain restaurants are generally avoided by NYC residents.

6. as for people who moved here from elsewhere...I'd venture that people who move to NYC tend to be a more sophisticated lot than normal for "back home"

Posted by Nathan | May 5, 2008 11:01 AM

Doug T at 9:45 AM FTW.

Posted by Pocket Rocket | May 5, 2008 11:07 AM

if you cared 1 bit about the environment you wouldnt patronize steak houses or eat meat at all for that matter.

oh, but you drive a prius and have florescent bulbs so youre doing your part to prevent climate change.

Posted by ghandi | May 5, 2008 11:09 AM

ephus hits on an important point: non-chain American restaurants (and this applies to some extent in Britain too, making it something of an Anglo/Protestant thing) are often really shitty towards kids.

But there's room for smart pieces to be written, for instance on the economic advantages of the chain/franchise operator over the sole proprietor, or on the dynamics of crap towns where, on the one hand, the chains may either be pushing out sole proprietors or filling a gap those restaurants won't occupy (such as Grand Moff Texan's example). That, as an accompaniment to the reviews, would have been smart, but it would also have taken more than sending out a bunch of writers to RedOlivebees.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | May 5, 2008 11:10 AM

You know, I'm curious about this assumption that the chains have driven all the wonderful mom-and-pop restaurants out of business. Did the the malls really replace thriving locally-owned culinary scenes? I'm skeptical.

It seems to me that Americans eat out a lot more now than they used to. And I'm sure that, on average, we have better choices than we did two generations ago, when most restaurants were either diners or steak-and-chops places, when Chinese meant chop suey and "ethnic" meant Italian. Did chains replace a lot of mom and pop restaurants? To large extent, I'll bet they simply expanded the market. But let's also consider the possibility that for the most part the mom-and-pop places weren't really all that great either.

And I say this all as someone who is instinctively anti-chain and who loves the variety of options available in the coastal city where I live. But all in all, I suspect that Americans have never had it so good when it comes to eating out.

Posted by PHC | May 5, 2008 11:13 AM

The reality is that a modest effort to learn how to cook will provide better tasting meals than what a chain will provide, and even a large percentage of expensive independents. I've mostly given up eating out, because I can cook it better, and more inexpensively, myself, especially in the summer when the garden is producing. Also, once one learns how to use ingrediants, a couple hours spent in the kitchen on the weekend will allow for quick meal preperation during the week. To top it off, it's fun. Don't even get me started on what sort of value is typically obtained on a restaurant's wine list

True enough, there can be some things which are difficult to replicate at home. Depending on where one lives, it might be tough to obtain seafood of the quality the one enjoys in the best seafood or sushi restaurants (which does not describe the mid-market chains, of course), and some wok cooking is problematic without a commercial-quality range hood. If you've ever spent thirty or even forty dollars on an entree in an expensive independent, however, that has had the taste cooked out of it, you know that avoiding mediocre chains doesn't guarantee a good dining experience.

Posted by Will Allen | May 5, 2008 11:15 AM

Red Lobster and The Olive Garden are uniformly horrid, but don't take my Chipotle from me. Still, horrid or not, I will defend to the death my fellow American's right to order the hideous Admiral's Feast at Red Lobster.

Posted by blogenfreude | May 5, 2008 11:16 AM

Democrats are lucky this article came out now, rather than a few weeks before the election. It's just another example of the kind of elitism that pervade the entire ethos of coastal liberalism.

Have Obama and Hillary denounced the article yet? They should. And Obama should be thinking about writing a speech to deal with this issue, which is much more grave -- and potentially more politically damaging -- than the so-called race issue.

Posted by DougJ | May 5, 2008 11:21 AM

I grew up in Levittown, PA. When I was little there were a dozen diners within about 8 miles of me, a family owned Italian restaurant in an old Victorian house backed by forest untouched since colonial times (Bucks County was founded in 1682), a dozen other family owned restaurants I can still name and I have fond memories of the few times we 'dined out' when I was a kid.

In about '82 they opened Sesame Place. Now, there is not a single chain in existence that doesn't have a 'representative' in Levittown or Langhorne. Almost none of the diners or family owned places are still around. I eat in The Burg in Trenton or go to Philly.

They bulldozed the Seafood Shanty (family owned) and replaced it with a fucking RED LOBSTER. They tore down a 'drive-in' burger shoppe and put in a Fuddruckers!

There are lots of bars but the crowds are aging mill workers. Everyone else goes to Friday's.

The other egregious thing is that they replaced all that forest with McMansions and the strip malls with the obligatory Best Buy/Petco/Old Navy/BedBathBeyond/etc. Those who live in the McMansions probably won't eat anywhere but chains. Heaven forfend they try something unknown.
You can go a mile in any direction from Sesame Place and not come across any retail or restaurant that is unfamiliar to anyone.

Thank god the Dairy Delite is still there to be written about in the NYT in an article about Obama's PA campaign...

Posted by Bigby | May 5, 2008 11:23 AM

Did anyone actually read the article? Most of the reviews leaned positive and focused on the good points rather than shred the bad stuff. Some mentioned what they will have 'next time'. I got the distinct impression that the editors told these reviewers to review their next outing with family or friends near where they live. They weren't condescending at all.

I think there is some projection going on. Just because someone is reviewing a restaurant you've been to before and feel superior to doesn't mean they are looking down their nose at the unwashed masses like you are.

Posted by winner | May 5, 2008 11:24 AM

Food and eating are very personal subjects. Pleasure by definition is subjective. If someone is satisfied with something, they are really satisfied. Perhaps they could more satisfied with something else if they knew about it. But we only know what we know. I would just recommend to people that they try something new and different. Surprises are more often than not pleasant ones.
I myself prefer to eat food cooked by family and friends. The next best thing is food prepared by people who cook professionally, but have a love for their work. I find that these people are more often than not found in privately run restaurants. Fortunately, in Japan where I live there is no problem finding excellent food and people who take great pride in their work.

Posted by Peter in Kobe | May 5, 2008 11:28 AM

i miss Bonanza's.

Posted by cha cha cha | May 5, 2008 11:30 AM

Food and eating are very personal subjects. Pleasure by definition is subjective. If someone is satisfied with something, they are really satisfied. Perhaps they could more satisfied with something else if they knew about it. But we only know what we know. I would just recommend to people that they try something new and different. Surprises are more often than not pleasant ones.
I myself prefer to eat food cooked by family and friends. The next best thing is food prepared by people who cook professionally, but have a love for their work. I find that these people are usually found in privately run restaurants. But not always. Fortunately, in Japan, where I live, there is no problem finding excellent food and people who take great pride in their work.

Posted by Peter in Kobe | May 5, 2008 11:31 AM

The Subway sandwich shop on Broad Street in NYC always had a line out the door when I worked down there. Mind-boggling. There are so many better and cheaper places to eat great sandwiches, but people would still gravitate to the familiar.

Posted by bperk | May 5, 2008 11:31 AM

I guess I can tell that there are very few business consultants on this blog. The thing about Outback is that is has an entire market mix when well run. The beverages, menu, food, speed of service, kid friendliness, etc are all part of the mix. the problem with most mom and pops is that they may hit one part of the mix like the hamburgers but the place is visually unappealing, the service is bad, new customers are treated as outsiders, and the price is not good.

Outback is not meant to compete with Ruth Chris or the Palm but it out competes all of its equivalents such as Lone Star, Longhorn, etc.

When I travel, I realize that many of the places I think of as mom and pop are really regional chains.

Posted by superdestroyer | May 5, 2008 11:39 AM

If Baja Fresh served beer it would be my favorite place to eat.

Posted by Bloix | May 5, 2008 11:41 AM

The food at a lot of restaurants in NYC is over-rated and over-priced, not to mention served with a heaping helping of attitude. When we lived in Queens my wife and I would often drive out to Long Island to go to a Bertucci's. The food was decent and cheap, and we didn't feel like sardines crammed into a table that was too small, or feel rushed by rude wait staff.

Of course there were many restaurants in the city we loved. My favorite was Elias' Corner in Astoria.

Posted by Pete | May 5, 2008 11:44 AM

All chain restaurants aren't bad: Houston's has excellent food, and has two locations in Manhattan, neither in especially touristy areas (The Citigroup building and on Park Ave. South). The food at P.F. Chang's is superior to most local Chinese restaurants I've been to as well.

Good local restaurants sometimes become chain restaurants. One example is the North Jersey restaurant Baumgart's, which now has several locations. There are plenty of examples of good local restaurants in Manhattan that became local chains (e.g., Better Burger, Rosa Mexicana, etc.).

Given the celebrity chef culture, even some high-end restaurants have become essentially chains. Chefs used to at least give their different restaurants different names, but now sometimes they just open the exact same restaurant in different cities (e.g., Nobu).

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 11:45 AM

What struck me, as a stranger to suburbia, were the huge waits. I flee in terror as it is from some New York eateries with half the reported times and a lot fewer kids, although more than enough noise of their own.

I expected a mildly humorous, mildly sympathetic description of the experience, the stock and trade of articles on life in the community. I expected people to find a reasonably reliable welcome to a family friendly restaurant. I expected an upbeat tone but lousy food, and I could not help noticing that while most of the reviews praised the food, the descriptions of it were turnoffs. I don't think it's too snotty to say I feel lucky as a New Yorker to have lots more choices, including some deservedly famous cheesecake and other competition to the chains. I can't imagine wanting well-done steak, much less chewy well-done steak, regardless of price.

But somehow I imagined it was a tradeoff, like the neighborhood pizza slice that's god awful but right there and faster than the extra half mile walk, much less cooking and shopping. How strange that people put up with the noise and waits on top of bad food.

Posted by John Haber | May 5, 2008 11:52 AM

A relevant anecdote:

The Saturday night before last, the domestic partner and I were heading off to an allegedly good local restaurant (one that had been described as such by Zagat -- an inexpensive Asian place that got a 23 or a 24 for food). The Zagat page said this restaurant was open until 11pm, so we headed over there. We got there a little before 10pm and the surly proprietor informed us that they had closed early due to a lack of business. Since most local restaurants around us are closed by 10pm, and we were too hungry to drive around, we stopped into the local TGI Friday's out of desperation. TGI Friday's happened to have a tuna burger on focaccia (the winner of a Food Network recipe contest) that was excellent. The other entree we got wasn't as good, but I'd get the tuna burger again.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 11:58 AM

There is very little culture of food here in the US and if one wants to eat well, it is safest to eat at home.

That said, the chain cafeterias in the South are quite adequate for simple unpretentious food and a nice atmosphere -- or they used to be.

Posted by harold | May 5, 2008 12:10 PM

I'd like to not only defend P.F. Chang's, but the one in White Plains in particular. It's very convenient for coming out of the city to meet people in Westchester, and is among the best Chinese restaurants in Westchester.

When we lived in Queens my wife and I would often drive out to Long Island to go to a Bertucci's. The food was decent and cheap, and we didn't feel like sardines crammed into a table that was too small, or feel rushed by rude wait staff.

These are the ravings of a crazy person.

Posted by washerdreyer | May 5, 2008 12:17 PM

If you live in any decent sized city and don't have kids, there is really no reason to go to chain restaurants when you have literally hundreds of unique options to choose from. Here in Philadelphia, though it's generally not considered foodie mecca, you can have an excellent meal from just about any culture around the world for approximately the same price as a meal at Applebee's.
I think the mistake some people make is assuming that non-chain restaurants in the city have to be formal and high-end. That's simply not the case. All you need is a little curiosity and willingness to try something new. I understand the appeal of the chains, especially if that's really the only option for those with kids. For the DINKs in the city, might as well live it up.

Posted by Roman | May 5, 2008 12:18 PM

Well, there's always Tad's Steaks... LOL

Posted by Ethel-To-Tilly | May 5, 2008 12:24 PM

Bigby: I'm sorry, but the Seafood Shanty in Bucks Cty sucked, too.

Posted by lobstakilla | May 5, 2008 12:26 PM

"Well, there's always Tad's Steaks"

Let's see if any Manhattanite snob wants to claim that Tad's is where tourists eat.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 12:27 PM

"Here in Philadelphia..."

i miss Little Pete's.

Posted by cha cha cha | May 5, 2008 12:29 PM

Fred, um, it's by Penn Station.

B&T eat there is what you mean.

Posted by Nathan | May 5, 2008 12:29 PM

Not sure if anyone mentioned Biaggi's yet, but that's a good Italian chain restaurant (pricey, though).

Posted by Ronnie Pudding | May 5, 2008 12:30 PM

I went to Beijing with a group of students a couple of years ago. The undergrads, who had been there two weeks when I arrived, were ecstatic when one of them discovered an Outback. Many of them made several trips.

The only chain I ate at in Beijing (well, except for a milkshake at a McDonald's) was the Paulaner brewpub. Frankly, I went for the beer, since most Chinese beer sucks.

Chain restaurants are often good for business travel. If I've been working or travelling for 12 hours, the local hole in the wall is often not worth the risk. At least not until I've had an opportunity to sound the locals out on the places they like.

Posted by mwg | May 5, 2008 12:31 PM

According to the Al Qaeda operative I just waterboarded, they were fine with our freedoms and democracy. It was a crummy Denny's Super Slam breakfast that ignited their hatred of America. That, and the designated hitter rule in the AL.

Posted by Kevin Hayden | May 5, 2008 12:31 PM

"Here in Philadelphia..."

i miss Little Pete's.

Posted by cha cha cha | May 5, 2008 12:34 PM

The only chain I ate at in Beijing (well, except for a milkshake at a McDonald's) was the Paulaner brewpub.

Paulaner brewpub in Beijing? I had no idea. I assume this is the same Paulaner that's makes the kick ass hefeweizen.

Posted by Ronnie Pudding | May 5, 2008 12:36 PM

Fred, um, it's by Penn Station.

Well, Times Square also. I frankly have no idea who would ever eat at Tad's Steaks.

Posted by Al | May 5, 2008 12:40 PM

"Fred, um, it's by Penn Station.

B&T eat there is what you mean."

I've only eaten at that wretched place once, and it was a native New Yorker who took me there. It didn't look like a B&T crowd to me, more like broke and miserable Manhattanites, the sort you might have found at the OTB.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 12:42 PM

Per the US, I'm more like 'Al' above than 'Al' is, if one includes Peter Lugar's in Brooklyn, there is no place in the US like Manhattan for restaurants. If one has eaten out a lot in Manhattan, and decided that Il Mulino is one's definition of good, then not only do chains in general not measure up, but 'good' restaurants in other places don't usually either. I once went to a highly recommended restaurant in San Francisco that was supposedly extremely high end, it sure was expensive, and thought it was kind of 'eh'. It was certainly no Il Mulino or Peter Lugar's.

I'm not sure if I read one of the comments above correctly, but Morton's and Ruth Chris are chains,
just FYI.

Per NJ though, though it's got plenty of Olive Gardens and the like, if one cannot find a non chain place to eat, on must get off Route 22. My wife watches the Food Network alot, and one show I guess I like too is a show about some guy who goes around reviewing diners. Per him, NJ is the diner capital of the earth and he's right. If you want to get into, Applebee's is all there is country, you have to get out of the northeast.

Per, the NYT, I'm not a Manhattanite, I'm outer borough, but as an American, I don't like snobs either. In fact, I look down my long snooty nose at them.

Posted by j mct | May 5, 2008 12:43 PM

j mct,

I've been to Il Mulino, and it is indeed good, but if you couldn't find a good meal in San Francisco you need to fly back and look again. There are plenty of great restaurants there.

Also, I've been to a few high-end Manhattan steakhouses (though not Brooklyn's Peter Lugar), as well as some high-end local places outside of Manhattan, and so far, the best steak I had was at the chain restaurant Ruth's Chris.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 12:51 PM

I'm not sure if I read one of the comments above correctly, but Morton's and Ruth Chris are chains,
just FYI.

I am well aware of that. I was contrasting them with the "cheap" steakhouse chains like Outback, Longhorn, Applebee's etc. Best steak I ever had was at Gene and George's in Chicago but, in my opinion, you can get a pretty good quality steak from a lot of the high end steakhouses, even if they are chains. At 45 to 60 dollars a steak, it had damn well better be I suppose. I am sure it is possible to have a bad steak at one of these places nonetheless. But the run of the mill low end steakhouses like Outback consistently serve steaks that are chewy and poorly cooked.

Posted by brent | May 5, 2008 12:59 PM

As you pointed out, you haven't been to Peter Lugar's :).

Didn't look all that hard in SF, just took some locals recommendation. As I said, I'm a Manhattan restaurant snob, and it's not so much that I have to eat at a what I consider to be a great restaurant every time I go out, if I had a job in TV, I'd like to be that guy on the Food Network who reviews diners' Tonto, but I'm a snob about that sort of thing as in really killer great restaurants that I remember what I ate a year later. I think most restaurants in Manhattan are 'eh', but if they're not expensive, that's OK. Same with chains.

Posted by j mct | May 5, 2008 1:03 PM

Living in the midwest, I find that people often equate portion size with value. They'd rather eat a huge plate of very mediocre food rather than a smaller portion of something that's actually good.
Cheesecake Factory is this concept taken to its extreme and the one in my city always has a long line out front.

Posted by MajorKong | May 5, 2008 1:15 PM

"The food at P.F. Chang's is superior to most local Chinese restaurants I've been to as well."

As Kyle's dad said on South Park, "You know, PF Chang's: the good stuff." That was when he was explaining how he gave birth to the world's largest unbroken turd.

Posted by holmes | May 5, 2008 1:15 PM

I read the article twice and fail to see anything objectionable about it. The mock-anthropologist writing style was a bit overdone, but it played as an inside joke on New Yorkers' attitudes about the suburbs. One can hardly call it sneering condescension when the food reviews were generally favorable.

Hell, I grew up in a midwestern suburb eating at these kinds of places, and the only thing about this article that offends me is that they gave the food at Applebees a positive review.

In my experience, an awful lot of people around the country have a very similar attitude toward these chain restaurants as the so-called urban elitists. Our running joke back in Indiana was to refer to Chilis/Applebees/Fridays as "The Restaurant" since they were all basically the same shit with a different sign out front. We ate there because we had fewer proximate alternatives than Manhattanites do, not because chain restaurants are our highly-prized native food culture and our feelings get hurt when food snobs mock our fine dining.

Now that I live on the East Coast, I haven't eaten at some of these chains in years. But Outback is still a decent meal at a decent price. And while Red Lobster serves mediocre seafood... those cheddar biscuits are pretty damn tasty.

Posted by LaFollette Progressive | May 5, 2008 1:34 PM

1. As a parent, I would say that chain restaurants are better for bringing the little ones. The restaurants tend to be big and noisy, so the other patrons don't mind as much when the kids misbehave.

2. Chain restaurants occupy a necessary place in the American food landscape. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so successful.

3. Chain restaurants explain why Americans are such fat pigs. They serve huge portions of really, really high calorie food that fat American pigs just love. The interesting anthropological detail to take away from your next trip to a chain restaurant is how fat everyone is.

Posted by blah | May 5, 2008 1:41 PM

Matthew, I agree --

Snobbery among the lower orders -- like NY Times food critics -- is just too droll!

Do these little people really think they know the good life?

Posted by moron | May 5, 2008 1:44 PM

Fuck the snobs. Real greenpoint hipsters celebrate (fetishize) working class grit, do lots of drugs, ride unsafe bicycles, and are more interested in self-destruction and regrettable sex than Applebees.

Those other people from the midwest are just third-wave trash.

Posted by outlandish josh | May 5, 2008 1:51 PM

Doug T said: And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to Applebees or Outback or Chilis

Man I wish I had come up with that line.

Posted by tubino | May 5, 2008 1:51 PM

I'm from New Orleans and for the most part they only chains that were around us grown up were the McDonald's, Burger King, and Popeys. Some of the outer NOLA burbs have Chuck E Cheez but most locals don't go to them all that much - no New Orleans food. Olive Garden only really has 3 in the "area" if by area you include Houma and Slidell (Kenner is where the other is located), TGI Friday's has only one location in all of Louisiana and it is in Shreveport and there are no Applebee's. Chili's and Outback do better with locations in places like Metairie, Houma, Slidell, the West Bank, Thibideaux, La Place, Mandeville and Hammond. But there are none of these restaurants in Orleans Parish (i.e. City of New Orlean) itself.

Posted by ET | May 5, 2008 1:53 PM

It seems to me that Americans eat out a lot more now than they used to. And I'm sure that, on average, we have better choices than we did two generations ago, when most restaurants were either diners or steak-and-chops places, when Chinese meant chop suey and "ethnic" meant Italian. Did chains replace a lot of mom and pop restaurants? To large extent, I'll bet they simply expanded the market. But let's also consider the possibility that for the most part the mom-and-pop places weren't really all that great either.

I live in an area that has been slowly taken over by creeping sprawl. There are more chain restaurants here than when I was a kid, but a lot more local restaurants too. In my town, there are more locally-owned places to eat than there were (one is crazy expensive and one is a filthy hole, but you can get a crappy pizza there if you want!). Chain restaurants may in fact be more like coffeeshops-- they may create a demand for a greater variety of 'eating out' options.

Red Lobster's cheddar biscuits are so much better than any of the rest of the food they should change their name to "The Cheddar Biscuit Shop," like the Cheesecake Factory.

Posted by Persia | May 5, 2008 2:05 PM

New Orleans is a truly great town for food, from high end to low end, although I haven't been back since Katrina. You could still get overpriced local dreck, however, that caters to ignorant tourists, if you didn't know the place.

Posted by Will Allen | May 5, 2008 2:08 PM

I'm a chowhound, and for all the "chains suck" rhetoric I don't think that's ever been the point. Most of them don't, and there are times or places where that's going to be the easiest or the most agreeable option, especially for a group. So be it.

They don't suck, but neither do they thrill me. What makes me happy is the ceviche or the marinated beef heart at the little Peruvian place in town, or the unusual pizza at Matthew's with the homemade meatballs, or the Greek place with yummy taramasalata and the best grilled octopus I've ever had or the freshly sliced pastrami from the original recipe at the oldest deli around.

The chains are fine. They're good and they make a lot of people happy (and fat, but that's another topic). But what makes me happy is the pursuit of what's great.

I'm not going to put someone down for eating at chains -- I do it once in a while myself. I don't think people are inferior for choosing them. Some people have other priorities, and don't need my dedication to great food to have happy and productive lives.

I do think Olive Garden is pretty bad though.

Posted by Jon Parker | May 5, 2008 2:09 PM

And I totally forgot Red Lobster. In New Orleans? In Louisiana? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Posted by ET | May 5, 2008 2:09 PM

"As Kyle's dad said on South Park, "You know, PF Chang's: the good stuff." That was when he was explaining how he gave birth to the world's largest unbroken turd."

That's funny, but here's a homework assignment for you. Find your nearest P.F. Chang's. Order the kung pao shrimp with brown rice. Then pick a half dozen of your favorite local Chinese places and order the same dish. Compare. Try one each day for the next several days and then report back to us.

Before P.F. Chang's opened up a couple of restaurants in North Jersey, the highlight of my business trips down in the Marlton area was getting to eat at P.F. Chang's. The one time I took clients out for lunch and they wanted to go somewhere else I was disappointed.

"Doug T said: And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to Applebees or Outback or Chilis

Man I wish I had come up with that line."

There was a comedian on Comedy Central a few years ago -- I forget his name, who had a bit mocking folks in flyover land for their post 9/11 fears. He said something like:

"In order to be a target, you have to build a civilization first. What are the terrorists going to do -- fly a plane into your Applebees?"

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 2:15 PM

"Red Lobster's cheddar biscuits are so much better than any of the rest of the food they should change their name to "The Cheddar Biscuit Shop," like the Cheesecake Factory."

I'm going to have to third the praise for the cheddar bay biscuits -- they are the tastiest thing on the Red Lobster menu.

Speaking of Red Lobster, if Matt new any black bloggers, he could ask them what the deal is with black people and Red Lobster. They love it. If there were a "Stuff Black People Like" website, Red Lobster would be on that list.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 2:21 PM

I suppose it depends on the chain. I mean, I wouldn't complain if Outback suddenly replaced some of the nice little individually-owned vinegar palaces in London.

And I'd absolutely kill to have Ledo's in the area. Not that there's any chance of real pizza ever coming to England....

Posted by Avedon | May 5, 2008 2:30 PM

"Ah, New York City, you talk a lot, let's 'av a look atcha".

Mick Jagger to Madison Square Garden 1969

Get Yer Ya Ya's Out.......

Posted by JW | May 5, 2008 2:34 PM

"Ah, New York City, you talk a lot, let's 'av a look atcha".

Mick Jagger to Madison Square Garden 1969

Get Yer Ya Ya's Out.......

Posted by JW | May 5, 2008 2:36 PM

Fred, here's a homework assignment for you: learn to say "Ma po do fu" properly, then order that from a decent chinese restaurant (NOT takeout). Don't bother asking for it at PF Chang's.

Next, go to a restaurant in chinatown NYC and ask for your kung-pao shrimp with brown rice. Prepare to be ignored or served something random.

Posted by Tim | May 5, 2008 2:48 PM

The truth is that I think these restaurants serve the purpose of an almost secular temple in our society. Much like chain bookstores and coffee joints, they bring us a sense of unity and ritual that was lost in the past. This obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely, it does provide us a sense of common experience and uniformity.

More on this: http://airingofthegrievances.blogspot.com/2008/05/temples-of-modernity-jm.html

Posted by Jonathan | May 5, 2008 2:52 PM

Tim,

Do you actually like real chinese food? As in the kind that people in China would recognise as Chinese food: tripe, chicken feet, dark meat, etc?

Posted by Jmo | May 5, 2008 2:57 PM

I knew it! I am an elite! I cannot even imagine eating at a chain restaurant by choice.

Posted by KathyF | May 5, 2008 2:58 PM

Jmo brings up a good point: the Chinese food served here isn't the same mystery stuff that's served in China. In truth, most foreign cuisines served here are tailored to American tastes, even at allegedly 'authentic' restaurants. The genius of P.F. Chang's, in my opinion, is that it puts the American palate first and any pretensions of authenticity way down the list.

And btw: the Ma Po Tofu isn't bad at P.F. Chang's.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 3:06 PM

One thing that Cheesecake Factory or TGI Chilibees' have going for them is that they offer a pretty wide selection of types of food at one place. A family or group can go there knowing that they will get what they may consider a decent, if not spectacular, serving of whatever type of thing they feel like: salad, sandwich, steak, pasta, and a couple "ethnic" flavor options all on one menu. That tends to make it a good compromise pick.

Posted by bjh | May 5, 2008 3:08 PM

Frankly, this is more interesting and informative than the Gas Tax Holiday debate or the debate on Rev. Wright.

Posted by Robert Hewson | May 5, 2008 3:14 PM

Yeah, the Paulaner brewpub in Beijing was a hoot, right down to the Lederhosen-wearing wait staff. Definitely the best beer we had in China. If I remember correctly, the "regular" beer wasn't anything special, but they had a nice dunkel and a nice hefeweizen.

In defense of PF Chang's: the last time I was there (a year or two ago) they had some kind of special Sichuan menu. What I had was reasonably authentic and pretty good. They were always pretty hit or miss, although that was always true of the non-chain Chinese restaurants in the Madison WI area. My favorite place moved to Lake Geneva maybe ten years ago...

Posted by mwg | May 5, 2008 3:18 PM

This kind of preciousness is par for the course in food writing - it's hard to puff a meal into an essay, and some self-indulgent "drollery" is a decent filler. I mean, I've seen reviews of "serious" places that spent two paragraphs cheekily telling you that the waiters were all snots and the patrons tended towards the striped-shirt set trying to impress their models, it's just that for some reason that doesn't come off as condescension towards the elite.

Posted by Senescent | May 5, 2008 3:22 PM

Another good meal you can have a chain restaurant is the triple-prime burger at Ruby Tuesday's. Order it medium. I haven't eaten beef in a few months, that was a great burger, if they still have it. Really on a different level.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 3:22 PM

btw, happy Cinco de Mayo to everybody; see you at Chi Chi's for happy hour.

Posted by cha cha cha | May 5, 2008 3:23 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this but AL IS RIGHT!

Suburban NY and NJ isn't Iowa or suburban Twin Cities or whatever.

Rather it's a region of the country with a lot of fine independently owned restaurants (and bakeries and delis and, yeah, okay, pizzerias.)

It was a shock to leave there and discover for instance that Washington, DC (where I went to college in the 80s) had no bakeries or delis that sliced meat fresh. Don't even get me started on the restaurants at the time.

So, yeah, chain restaurants suck. Yeah, it's snobby to point this out and, of yeah, a place like White Plains is close to numerous restaurants that are vastly superior.

Anyway, score one for Al. Big time. Spot on.

Posted by just another suburban Italian | May 5, 2008 3:25 PM

I don't care what anyone says but Outback Steakhouse has some of the best Alaskan King Crab legs I've had anywhere (including the so-called best-of-the-best American Express Centurion card- (i.e., the black AMEX card)welcoming restaurants).

Posted by Myshiba | May 5, 2008 3:31 PM

Chi Chis has been out of business for four years. However, there are many chain mexican food that fill the same role as Outback, Chili's, etc.

One of the problems with more authentic Chinese is that they treat non-chinese customers as intruders. They cannot speak English, cannot make suggestions and generally have inferior service to a place like P.F. Changs. The market mix of P.F. Changs is its key to success. You get OK Chinese without the clutter, extended family, no refill on drinks, and with better deserts.

I wonder how many people in NYC keep eating at their place because they know the people and get good service because of who they are and who they know versus because of the food?

Posted by superdestroyer | May 5, 2008 3:35 PM

For me, this is made all the worse by the knowledge that the attitude of contempt is almost certainly fake...Most of New York City's elitists grew up in very conventional middle class suburbs and then moved to the city sometime after college. They may look like -- indeed, be -- Greenpoint hipsters now, but they come from the same places as all the other college educated white people in this country.

But that's the point. People who grew up in conventional middle class suburbs and then made a choice to move to the city have a greater hatred of the suburbs than anyone else--precisely because they've lived that life and actively chosen to reject it. When you spent your entire teenage years dreaming of how you were going to get out of your stifling suburban community and move to the big city, you feel a really, really intense disdain for the people who are happy to remain in that terrible place you couldn't wait to get out of.
***
Second the comment upthread about Southern cafeterias. I also really like some of the more downscale non-fast-food chains, like Cracker Barrel. But maybe I would feel differently if I'd been raised in the south.

Posted by flippantangel | May 5, 2008 3:36 PM

Americans adore crap. If a truly fine steak and chops restaurant opened next to an Outback or a Chilis and was similarly priced (or even cheaper) - the crap place would get the crowds. Mencken wrote aboout this a million times. In Warhol's diaries - he mentioned that Sara Lee use to make an orange cake but they discontinued it. The reason? It was good and hence it didn't sell. Hydrox cookies were better than oreos. Gone. The Olive Garden? You might as well put a good marinara on cardboard. A really good Chinese restaurant? People prefer Panda. This is America. Had Sonny Bono lived - he would've become President.

Posted by Trevor | May 5, 2008 3:42 PM

If one cares to look it up you would discover that Outback's corporate parent was a huge bush/Cheny/GOP contributor in '00 & '04. That's enough to keep me out of their establishments.

I tell people that we get to vote in the elections every couple of years but we can vote with our dollars every single day.

Posted by PatD | May 5, 2008 3:43 PM

Oh, and

Bigby: I'm sorry, but the Seafood Shanty in Bucks Cty sucked, too.

Seconded. (Doylestown-raised.)

Posted by Senescent | May 5, 2008 3:47 PM

"Chi Chis has been out of business for four years."

thanks for the update. question: do most business consultants not have a sense of humor?

Posted by cha cha cha | May 5, 2008 3:48 PM

Eh, go f your elitist selves.

I travel for work. A lot.

And I'll be damned if I fly 5,000 miles to Alaska just so I can eat at a fucking Applebee's and enjoy their extreme fajita rolls.

All these chains make their food ahead of time, freeze and reheat. They all have the same deep fried Tex-Mex Americana menus.

I eat out a lot and I get sick of seeing the same menu day in and day out, which is why I don't eat at celebrity chef restaurants either. I try not to give my money to establishments that aren't interesting.

And in exchange for sometimes marginally better-tasting food they DO hoover money out of local economies.

The best burger I had recently was at Gold Rush Burgers, a Mom-owned and run establishment in Yreka, CA.

Posted by ChrisS | May 5, 2008 4:00 PM

I live in a Jersey suburb and in my little town you can find restaurants featuring Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Italian, Greek, Peruvian, Cuban, "eclectic" and a few other kinds of cuisine. There are two bakeries, a butcher shop, and a salumeria as well. The neighboring towns have tons of other ethnic restaurants, including Mexican, Polish, etc. We really don't need the chains.

Posted by Sheila | May 5, 2008 4:01 PM

I live in a Jersey suburb and in my little town you can find restaurants featuring Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Italian, Greek, Peruvian, Cuban, "eclectic" and a few other kinds of cuisine. There are two bakeries, a butcher shop, and a salumeria as well. The neighboring towns have tons of other ethnic restaurants, including Mexican, Polish, etc. We really don't need the chains.

Posted by Sheila | May 5, 2008 4:03 PM

Some observations:

1. Bertucci's gives me the shits.
2. Really good Chinese food almost always is served in a place with a lousy atmosphere (Chinatown joints with no table cloths, red plastic calendars on the walls, and a dirty-looking fish tank).
3. Al is often correct about non-political matters and is usually far more respectful towards other commenters than his haters are towards him.

Posted by Philly | May 5, 2008 4:06 PM

"Americans adore crap. If a truly fine steak and chops restaurant opened next to an Outback or a Chilis and was similarly priced (or even cheaper) - the crap place would get the crowds."

There is truth to this, and it holds true even among the dreaded East Coast elite. We were in Dupont Circle on Saturday evening looking for a place to sit outdoors and eat some good grub... and briefly stopped by a Mexican restaurant that shall remain nameless. There was a half-hour wait to sit outside and indoors it was loud enough to violate EU health codes. The place was filthy and smelled slightly of vomit. So we left. Next door there was an excellent Peruvian restaurant with lower prices and a lovely, quiet patio. All but two tables were empty.

Granted, this was the Saturday before Cinco de Mayo. But still.

Posted by LaFollette Progressive | May 5, 2008 4:06 PM

Living in Denmark now I have not eaten at a chain restaurant in a long time. But as the father of 2 kids, I was actually nervous about that because I wasn't sure if I would be able to take the family out for dinner. Nice thing is, and much different from the States as far as I am concerned, is that in Copenhagen you can go to a small restaurant with your entire family! They are much more relaxed about the kids going a little crazy here than at a similar type restaurant in America. Probably because there isn't the "TGI Chilibees" (stealing that, its awesome) down the road. Please keep in mind that many families go to these "family restaurants" because they don't want to upset other patrons who just wanted a relaxing night out with some good food in a quaint place.

Posted by expat | May 5, 2008 4:16 PM

I am actually shocked when I go to places like, say, Florida, and see how few good non-chain restaurants exist there.

Snowbirds/Tourists. If you're small you can't absorb the huge swings in the number of eaters. And few tourists go into a restaurant in a strip mall with 20 tables or drive down side streets etc.

We've been going to Florida to see our son and the good local restaurants he finds and takes us to are almost always defunct by the next time we show up.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | May 5, 2008 4:31 PM

For people who can't eat gluten, PF Chang's is a godsend. It's the only place outside of Manhattan (or my kitchen) I know to get GF chinese food. And frankly, it's better than the Manhattan GF chinese I've had.

Similarly Outback is good about telling you what you can and can't eat.

This is a major advantage of chains, that precisely because things are standardized you can do your research and know what you can eat despite your dietary restrictions. I was raised on non-chain restaurants (to the point where a couple years ago my dad was surprised to discover that there are chain restaurants that are not fast food), and in most cases I'd avoid them for nutritional reasons, but they have their advantages even to east coast snots like me.

Posted by MissLaura | May 5, 2008 5:00 PM

"As for Outback Steakhouse: sorry, but I'm always surprised to read that people still eat steak. It's 2008, folks. "

I honestly don't understand what this comment is supposed to mean.

Posted by mad6798j | May 5, 2008 5:02 PM

I live for two years above the Outback and Olive Garden on 23rd and 6th in Manhattan. We ate at Olive Garden often for their soup and salad combo, and got pick-up frequently from Outback (usually burgers and such; they use a lot of tenderizer in their steak). Both are great for what they are.

And I LOVE Chili's.

Posted by dc | May 5, 2008 5:30 PM

In China, people are interested in the food and not in the atmosphere, so the atmosphere is often pretty poor. The places with a nice atmosphere may or may not have decent food, but they're definitely catering to Westerners.

In Madison, my wife and I used to go to this restaurant we called the Dysfunctional Family Chinese Restaurant. The kids who were the waitstaff obviously did not want to be there, and it showed in the servive. Fortunately the daughter liked my wife, so we did pretty well. The food was fantastic, so we got a lot out carryout until they moved to Lake Geneva.

Posted by mwg | May 5, 2008 5:36 PM

Yeah, those chains sure serve bad food. Ruth's Chris for example, or McCormick & Schmicks.

Kidding.

Posted by skylights | May 5, 2008 5:39 PM

McCormick & Schmicks is hit-or-miss in my book. Lobster rolls? Hit. Maryland crab soup? Hit. Cedar plank Salmon? Big miss. Of the mid-priced chains, Houston's has consistently excellent food. Their apple wood-grilled salmon fillet is better than any fin fish from McCormick & Schmick, IMO.

Posted by Fred | May 5, 2008 5:48 PM

Red Lobster and The Olive Garden are uniformly horrid, but don't take my Chipotle from me.
Posted by blogenfreude | May 5, 2008 11:16 AM

Oh, no doubt. I wouldn't eat at those other two places if I was starving to death, but I'd stand in the doorway with a shotgun to stop them if they tried to close the nearby Chipotle down!

Posted by electrolite | May 5, 2008 6:35 PM

Red Lobster and The Olive Garden are uniformly horrid, but don't take my Chipotle from me.
Posted by blogenfreude | May 5, 2008 11:16 AM

Oh, no doubt. I wouldn't eat at those other two places if I was starving to death, but I'd stand in the doorway with a shotgun to stop them if they tried to close the nearby Chipotle down!

Posted by electrolite | May 5, 2008 6:35 PM

The value (to a consumer) of a chain is that it's familiar. Period. I'm telling you that as a transplant from Colorado to Baltimore. And that familiarity is both good AND bad. Nevertheless, you know what you're getting.

And all you East Coasters who are essentially talking about the sophisticated palate that can be acquired by the initiated: Can anyone tell me where to get a good hand held burrito here? Cause if you can do that, I'll accept your reasoning hook, line and sinker. Hell, I'd drive to NYC to get it if it satisfies my midwestern sensibilities. Cause near as I can tell, the options for local dining may be many, but the they are nowhere near complete. I can get Cuban, Dominican, Spanish, Portugese, Brazilian -- mostly really top-notch. But midwestern style Mexican? Nearly any hole-in-the-wall Mexican restaurant in Denver beats what's available here. And if one more person (however well-intentioned) recommends Chipotle I might go screaming off into the night.

Never underestimate the value of the predetermined menu... You have no idea how THRILLED I would be to find a "3 Margaritas" or "Armadillo" here...

Posted by sj | May 5, 2008 6:35 PM

The value (to a consumer) of a chain is that it's familiar. Period. I'm telling you that as a transplant from Colorado to Baltimore. And that familiarity is both good AND bad. Nevertheless, you know what you're getting.

And all you East Coasters who are essentially talking about the sophisticated palate that can be acquired by the initiated: Can anyone tell me where to get a good hand held burrito here? Cause if you can do that, I'll accept your reasoning hook, line and sinker. Hell, I'd drive to NYC to get it if it satisfies my midwestern sensibilities. Cause near as I can tell, the options for local dining may be many, but the they are nowhere near complete. I can get Cuban, Dominican, Spanish, Portugese, Brazilian -- mostly really top-notch. But midwestern style Mexican? Nearly any hole-in-the-wall Mexican restaurant in Denver beats what's available here. And if one more person (however well-intentioned) recommends Chipotle I might go screaming off into the night.

Never underestimate the value of the predetermined menu... You have no idea how THRILLED I would be to find a "3 Margaritas" or "Armadillo" here...

Posted by sj | May 5, 2008 6:36 PM

Oops. Sorry about that.

Posted by sj | May 5, 2008 6:43 PM

I wonder if the Sneer-pusses at the Times realize that about have the seafood restaurants they visit when they play Bennies down on the Joisey Shore are chains, but often with different names? Woops!

Posted by William Teach | May 5, 2008 6:49 PM

Can anyone tell me where to get a good hand held burrito here?

The California Taqueria in Brooklyn (7th Ave & Union Street-ish, Park Slope) does the best approximation of the Mission-style burrito I've found anywhere east of the Mississippi. Probably not worth making a specific trip for, but worthwhile if you're in the vicinity.

Posted by James Gary | May 5, 2008 8:01 PM

I generally find the chain resturants to be at about the median quality-wise for their price range. If you look around, you can normally find something better, but if you don't know resturants in the area, you've got around a 50% chance of ending up somewhere worse. I try to eat at a variety of places in order to find the few gems (if it's bad, I don't have to go back, after all), but I've ended up at countless local resturants that managed to cost more but deliver comparable quality (pretty common among the local bar and grill-type equivalents of Applebee's or Chili's) or are just plain bad (most common among "ethnic" food and diners). The worst examples tend to be found where there aren't a lot of resturants of the type, chain or otherwise, in an area. The lack of competition allows them to scrape by on the unfortunate souls who happen to wander in for variety's sake; franchises at least mantain a minimum of quality, but local places have no bottom limit. Chains are most convienient for dishes where the gap between an excellent example of the dish and a passable one is small or the gap between a poor example and a passable one is large. There are also a few chain resturants that manange to be pretty damn good - Famous Dave's and Biaggi's can hold their own even in areas there is decent local competition within the style.

RE: Suburban NY and NJ

The problem is often that you'll have excellent local examples of one type of cuisine accompanied by a terrible selection of others. I've lived in a town in suburban NY where there was a great local Italian resturant every few blocks (plus fresh sliced capicola at the deli, mmmmhh) but a PF Chang's would have been welcome since there wasn't a Chinese place around that wasn't definitively subpar. I don't think I've been to a town where there wasn't some vital gap in the local cuisine that chain resturants filled - even urban areas tend to have a major gap or two even though they're likely to cover more areas well than surburbs or small towns.

Posted by MattXIV | May 5, 2008 8:31 PM

Just had an excellent burrito ($4.95) at a small Culver City (CA) hole in the wall called *Taqueria Sanchez. There was an eclectic menu, all kinds of out-of-the-ordinary Mexican dishes at incredible prices and good guacamole on the house. There were maybe 2-3 people in there. A block or two away from a conventional-looking Mexican place with far less interesting dishes, over-priced drinks, burritos at twice the price and it was crowded to the gills with generic Americans. I'm not even that fond of Mexican food, but this place drove home the point that's been made here.

Re P.F. Changs - other than simple takeout like fried rice - it's a joke. Unlike the "you can't find good pizza outside of back East" argument, there really are very, very good normally priced Chinese restaurants in L.A. and you don't have to go to Monterrey Park to find them. Obviously, there's a plethora of boring, uninspired, neighborhood Chinese joints here like anywhere else, but, you don't have to go far to find a truly quality place.

Posted by Trevor | May 5, 2008 11:40 PM

sj, if you want to find a decent burrito place in Baltimore IIRC there's a decent burrito place in Hamden near all of those used book stores and RoFo's. Can't remember the name though.

"In China, people are interested in the food and not in the atmosphere, so the atmosphere is often pretty poor. The places with a nice atmosphere may or may not have decent food, but they're definitely catering to Westerners."

Very true. I've also noticed these places often have blander and overpriced food here (with the exceptions of nice tea houses, which focus more on fruit and such than a say mala doufu and such). A lot of the best places are noisy, not exactly clean and often don't have English menus. I have to say though that Northern Chinese food in Beijing is just too similar to decent Chinese food in the US. It seems to me to be a lot more meat-based than Southern Chinese food. Southern Chinese food is just better IMHO.

PF Chang's is ok for a chain Chinese restaurant, but still kind of bland. Their version of "spicy" is made for infants.

If your kids can't behave in restaurants, discipline them and don't let them get away with crap. You're the parent. If your kid can only behave themselves to the extent they can only eat in a noisy restaurant where no one will hear them above the other screaming brats, you're doing something wrong. If you live somewhere where affordable chains are nearby but only bring them to chains, you're teaching them to be boring, unimaginative and not willing to take risks and try new things.

Posted by Reality Man | May 5, 2008 11:52 PM

"If you live somewhere where affordable chains are nearby but only bring them to chains, you're teaching them to be boring, unimaginative and not willing to take risks and try new things.

Posted by Reality Man | May 5, 2008 11:52 PM"

That should be

"If you live somewhere where affordable non-chains are nearby but only bring them to chains, you're teaching them to be boring, unimaginative and not willing to take risks and try new things.

Posted by Reality Man | May 5, 2008 11:52 PM"

Posted by Reality Man | May 5, 2008 11:57 PM

And all you East Coasters who are essentially talking about the sophisticated palate that can be acquired by the initiated: Can anyone tell me where to get a good hand held burrito here?

I can get a better burrito from the taco truck that stops three blocks from my apartment here in Los Angeles than any place I've been to on the East Coast. Last time a friend suggested Mexican in NYC, I told him "I'll pay for dinner if we go someplace that's *not* Mexican".

Posted by Henry Holland | May 5, 2008 11:59 PM

Also, I was forced to eat at the Midtown TFI Friday's many years ago because I was visiting with family and we were eating with another family with little kids who were scared to try anything new. It was the worst food in a restaurant I've had in my life and was the most disgusting-looking too. Anyone who visits NYC for just a few days and decides to eat at a chain is an idiot.

Posted by Reality Man | May 6, 2008 12:03 AM

"And if one more person (however well-intentioned) recommends Chipotle I might go screaming off into the night."

Why? The founder of Chipotle was a CIA grad, if memory serves, and didn't he start the business out in the Denver area?

Had the TGI Friday's tuna burgers again tonight. Excellent, again. If I were eating beef, I'd try one of the other Food Network recipe contest winners there, the skirt steak sandwich with plantains. Nothing looked good for desert though, so we got some soft serve and oatmeal cookies from McDonald's on the way home.

Posted by Fred | May 6, 2008 1:18 AM

Yeah, Mexican in New York doesn't average that great. I'm told it's because we get the wrong kind of Mexicans here. Something about migration patterns. Having said that, there are a couple of good stands and trucks, and the Red Hook ball fields have been pretty reliable.

As for burritos, for some reason everyone here expects them to be oversized rather than handheld. Don't as me what the point is of wrapping something up when you have to eat it off a plate anyway.

I'm going to cut the article some slack. Truth be told, I've lived in Manhattan so long that the chains really are exotic to me. They're either not here, or not in any part of town I go to (except for the Olive Garden in Chelsea, I guess). So the tone of the article made sense to me.

Though when I did go to an Outback a couple of months back, I thought it was quite good.

Posted by AlanC9 | May 6, 2008 1:31 AM

"Don't as me what the point is of wrapping something up when you have to eat it off a plate anyway."

A Latino friend of mine taught the trick of how to eat the over-sized burritos without making a mess, when we ordered them from his neighborhood place in San Francisco: You unwrap the burrito gradually in a spiral fashion as you eat it, so the aluminum foil adds to the structural integrity of the part you haven't eaten yet.

Posted by Fred | May 6, 2008 2:12 AM

You eat the burrito like you are smoking a joint or a home rolled cigarette. You roll it and tuck the ends in. Give it a lick if you have to.

Posted by Ed Marshall | May 6, 2008 2:23 AM

Qdoba (and probably the other chains) offer naked burritos as well (i.e., on a plate). The domestic partner and I usually share one and dip chips into it.

Posted by Fred | May 6, 2008 3:05 AM

If your kids can't behave in restaurants, discipline them and don't let them get away with crap. You're the parent. If your kid can only behave themselves to the extent they can only eat in a noisy restaurant where no one will hear them above the other screaming brats, you're doing something wrong. If you live somewhere where affordable chains are nearby but only bring them to chains, you're teaching them to be boring, unimaginative and not willing to take risks and try new things.

Nuts. That's a crabbed view of the way human beings grow and develop. The only restaurants we took our kids to until they were both older than 7 or 8 were noisy chains. They've grown into adults who eat from every cuisine they've been exposed to.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | May 6, 2008 8:46 AM

Chili's, OK... But The Outhouse? Really?

Really?

Posted by ibc | May 6, 2008 2:44 PM

Alice Gabriel wins the prize for the funniest (unintentional) snotty line:

"True confession: I had a great meal at the Cheesecake Factory in White Plains ... Waiters and servers, in white button-down shirts and ties, were cordial and efficient, scurrying over polished floors ..."

Posted by Commment | May 7, 2008 3:29 AM