Sichuan Province = Szechuan cuisine -- yes or no? James Fallows rounds up some accounts of the situation in Chengdu from Americans on the ground there. What can one really say?
« Harvard as Hedge Fund | Main | Holy Joe's Eerie Prescience »
More Earthquake
13 May 2008 01:13 pm
Comments (26)
And Chengdu's population is estimated at around 4 million with 11 million in the metropolitan area.
Yes, it is the same.
The main distinctive spice in Sichaun cooking is the Sichuan peppercorn, which is known for producing its "ma la" effect - a particular combination of numbness and spiciness. So yes, the food is hot (like many regional cuisines of China and East Asia), but it's really that extra kick of numbness on the tongue that sets it apart. Alas, most Chinese restaurants, even Sichaun-style ones, will never serve the spice to non-Chinese unless you ask specifically for it.
Indeed - I'm making mapo dofu (Mother Chen's pock-marked tofu) tonight for dinner (with plenty of Sichuan peppercorns), and thinking about all the people still trapped under rubble in Sichuan province is sobering indeed.
Sichaun uses the pinyin phonetic system, Szechuan uses the older Wade-Giles system (e.g. Beijing vs. Peking, Canton vs. Guangdong, etc.). Mapo dofu is great, but nothing beats a good Chengdu hotpot.
Since we're on the subject and this is a DC blog, I'll put in a plug for Joe's Noodle House in Rockville. Excellent Sichuan dishes (be sure to ask specifically for the peppercorns). It's walkable from Twinbrook Metro.
This is the real Sichuan deal here in NYC
http://www.thegrandsichuan.com/
Try the one on 2nd Ave in 50s.
Mountain Chicken. More peppers and pepper than chicken.
If you cook, I want to plug Fuchsia Dunlop's Land of Plenty:
But the earthquake sounds horrific.
BTW, the first syllable is actually pronounced "sz," with no vowel.
"Szechuan" is not Wade-Giles. That would be "ssu chuan."
"Peking" is not Wade-Giles. That would be "pei ching." I think "Peking" must be Cantonese.
Here's a chart of Chinese phonetic systems. There's not "sze," so that's presumably something somebody just made up, something any 老外 who's spent time in Taiwan will be used to.
The Szechuan spelling comes from the "Chinese Postal Map Romanization" system. See Wiki entry here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Postal_Map_Romanization
Essentially is seems to be based on, but not identical to, the Wade-Giles system. It was created in 1906 to standardize Western spellings of Chinese place names.
It feels sick piling on more food talk in comments on a post about a tragedy but for folks in NW Washington DC, Great Wall Szechuan House has a good offering of mala food along with pretty decent food typical to any average Chinese restaurant.
The best way to go is to order in the place for carry out as their connection is really bad by phone so you may not get what you want.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=cityguide/profile&id=1124716
Just write it as "Si Chuan" and the derivation (Four Rivers) becomes even easier. And the "Si" is pronounced not like the Spanish, but more as if it were spelled "Sih," or even "Szi." Pinyin's better than Wade-Giles, but still confusing.
Just write it as "Si Chuan" and the derivation (Four Rivers) becomes even easier. And the "Si" is pronounced not like the Spanish, but more as if it were spelled "Sih," or even "Szi." Pinyin's better than Wade-Giles, but still confusing.
nothing beats a good Chengdu hotpot
You forgot to add "for inducing explosive indigestion".
It sure was good going down, though, I'll say that. But I cut my Chengdu visit short, in favor of milder, more southerly cuisines.
And Matt, since I believe you're a panda fan, I will also note that Sichuan is primo panda country. One hopes that their fragile wild existence does not end up being further stressed by the fallout from this recent human catastrophe.
Correction!
Sichuan in Wade Giles is actually "Ssuch'uan." Forgot the apostrope!
Wade Giles sucks like a Hoover vacuum cleaner. Yale is probably the most intuitive romanization system, but the only place I've ever seen it used is in the National Taiwan University Mandarin Training Center's "Speak Chinese (I)" book.
I'm still going with "sz" as the right pronunciation, but of course there's lots of accents, so who knows.
...though mentioning the Yales system reminds me that we should probably consider ourselves fortunate that there's no Harvard system.
Gomentum, I think it's appropriate that those familiar with even that one small aspect of the culture of those lost share it with others.
@Ryan
Reports say that the pandas are in good shape after the quake, so we can get back to worrying about food and people.
""Peking" is not Wade-Giles. That would be "pei ching." I think "Peking" must be Cantonese."
I think "Peking" might be from the French system, which IIRC is called Pekin in French. Or the defunct postal romanization system. Either one. And Wade-Gilles is beyond retarded. And Sichuanese food is the best food in China.
Something I can never understand is why Chinese people continue to say "Peking" to westerns when we haven't used the word since the 1970s. Drives me nuts. And Beijing University is still called Peking University in English. I'm always telling them to stop it, but there's just too many of them.
Grr.
we can get back to worrying about food and people.
Right, because my calling it a "human catastrophe" clearly evinces my indifference to people.
we can get back to worrying about food and people.
Right, because my calling it a "human catastrophe" clearly evinces my indifference to people.
Oh OK, fine:
[wails and rends garments]
That better?
domino:
I still haven't made it to the mainland (which I'm honestly I'm not that enthusiastic about, but I suppose I should do it eventually, considering all the time I've invested into this idiotic language...still working on my simplified characers, though), and haven't experienced the "Peking" phenomenon, but I know that Chinese people consider English a sign of sophistication and would therefore prefer to use the Anglicized versions of Chinese words. I remember dealing with this phenomenon with the word "Negro," since "Black people" has the disadvantage of being an exact translation of the Chinese (lately I haven't discussed the subject of "Black people" with too many Chinese, but I don't think the currently fashionable term has really caught on, as it's harder to say, which is why I don't use it much).
Re: I'm still going with "sz" as the right pronunciation
How do you pronounce "sz"? That doesn't work at all if you give both letters their primary English values. In western Slavic languages "sz" is used for our "sh". In Hungarian and archaic German it's our "s" or double "ss".
"How do you pronounce "sz?"
Pronounce an "s." Now add vocalization. It turns into a "z."
Other common syllables in chinese are pronounced dz and tsz.
Comments closed May 27, 2008.
| 
Heads in the Sand
Yes, it is. Same word, different ways of spelling in english.
四川
Really spicy.
Posted by DamnYankees | May 13, 2008 1:16 PM