A Paradox

Tyler Cowen on an alleged problem with my worldview:

I wonder sometimes whether inequality of status -- as opposed to wealth -- is greater in Western Europe or in the United States. In this country you can love NASCAR and be proud of it. Millionaires won't look down on you much for that taste. In Europe you are expected to dress well and be educated and not watch too much TV. So the egalitarian left is in an odd position here. On one hand it wishes to elevate the European system over the United States. Furthermore it also wishes to claim that wealth isn't a final determinant of happiness (i.e., Europe is worthy), while at the same time circling back to emphasize inequality of wealth as a prima facie fault of the American system.

That's a nice story, but I don't see any evidence whatsoever that the United States actually is a snob-free country where rich people don't do any looking down at their social inferiors. I feel like I live in a country where, as in European places I've visited, we have our snobs and our racists and all the rest along with some nice people. But even if it is true that Europe has more snobs, this is really neither here nor there in terms of any particular policy debate. To take the idea that the American left wants to make the country "like Europe" too literally is silly -- there are a lot of elements of European society that couldn't possibly be replicated over here (old cathedrals) or that wouldn't be reasonable to replicate (tons of languages) or that are downright undesirable.

But there are things we can learn from Europe. Amsterdam and Copenhagen are examples of cities that have done a lot of work to make transportation policy work for people, rather than for cars. France has a health care system that a lot of people deem admirable, and at least lets us think about what a very different approach to public education (where I think they're on to something) and the work/leisure tradeoff (where I think we're on to something) would look like. I don't see why we can't become more like some European countries in some respects (and there are other respects in which some European countries ought to become more like the US) without abandoning wholesale the parts of American culture that are broadly appealing to many people around the world.

Comments

Um, I'm quite sure people look down on NASCAR lovers. I know because I'm one of the haters.

Posted by eriks | June 10, 2008 1:00 PM

Yeah, looking down on people who like Nascar is an honored upper middle class tradition.

Posted by Cliffy | June 10, 2008 1:08 PM

"the work/leisure tradeoff"

This should read "laziness." One of the best things about our country is our work ethic. We work harder, and therefore and more productive and richer than any other nation on earth. Why would we want to replicate laziness, mandate 4 day work weeks, or 30-35 hour work weeks? I can't see how that in any way could be good for a society that wants to produce and prosper.

Posted by Zarco | June 10, 2008 1:08 PM

In Europe you are expected to dress well and be educated and not watch too much TV.

It may be that Tyler Cowen is missing the point of egalitarianism. For a moment, assume his assumption about expectations of Europe are true. If so, the European system makes all of these things accessible to the average person (even if they choose to forgo them). By contrast, one's personal wealth is much less a factor of mere desire.

At the same time, it's difficult to generalize just what, precisely, America is snobby about. Certainly the mindset of "If you're so smart, how come you're not rich?" exists, but the US is so huge that it manages to accommodate a diverse number of value systems from which you can choose to adhere to.

Posted by Tyro | June 10, 2008 1:08 PM

I also look down on the herd: the NASCAR lovers, the people who watch American Idol, the people who drive SUV's, etc, etc. Where else am I going to derive my self-esteem?

Posted by Jim W | June 10, 2008 1:09 PM

False premise. The American ruling class is filled with snobs.

Posted by blah | June 10, 2008 1:11 PM

Who is Tyler Cowen and did he actually grow up in America? People get looked down on for all sorts of things. What country is this guy talking about?

Posted by Jay | June 10, 2008 1:13 PM

Zarco,

I'm not sure where you live in the US, but we import our work ethic...Many of the jobs are just "too much hard work" for Americans.

Posted by Whoa Now | June 10, 2008 1:14 PM

Nobody on the left in the US intends to rebuild the country so that snobbery doesn't exist/is illegal.

Cowen is simply trying to justify his dislike of policies that enhance opportunities for the less well off by fantasizing that they will make the US just like Europe in every regard.

No one believes that, probably not even Cowen.

Posted by Elvis Elvisberg | June 10, 2008 1:14 PM

I think the number of signals concerning status is greater in the US than in Europe, so there are more possibilities and more combinations-- more room in 'status space' if you want to sound mathematical. But a bad combination of signals still signifies-- low status is low status and is bad news.

Posted by MattF | June 10, 2008 1:15 PM

blah, blah, blah, I can't see, blah, blah.

--Fixed it for Zarco.

Posted by Tommy | June 10, 2008 1:15 PM

I don't know where Tyler gathers his observations of American society. However, in polite, genteel circles fans of NASCAR are NOT held in high regard. They're known as the beer swilling, nicotine stained, grease monkey wannabee, obnoxious, carbon monoxide huffing, sister screwing hillbillies they actually are. On top of those attributes thay have some truly negative personal qualities.

Posted by steve duncan | June 10, 2008 1:15 PM

Does Tyler know that "wealth is not a final determinant of happiness" does not equal "wealth is not a determinant of happiness at all?" Or, to put it another way, it's not what the 0.1% have that's so bothersome; it's the fact that they have it while the public thing is starving -- while we have shitty roads and schools and reduced bus service at the very moment we want to get out of our cars.

Or, to put it still another way, there's Auden: "Money cannot buy/ The fuel of Love/But is excellent kindling."

Posted by Delicious Pundit | June 10, 2008 1:17 PM

In Europe you are expected to dress well and be educated and not watch too much TV.

Naturally. Very cultured and sophistocated, unlike NASCAR fans.

Posted by SoCalJustice | June 10, 2008 1:20 PM

we can't become more like some European countries

I'd be happy with being more like Canada with a better global warming policy.

Posted by Christopher Colaninno | June 10, 2008 1:22 PM

Well, at least the guy's admitting that we've got the "advantage" on inequality of wealth versus the europeans.

The fact that he then has to shift to imaginary cultural differences is simply part of the routine right-wing psychosis.

Where else could you get a point of view that implies that we've the land of paupers now but at least no one looks down on us for our Nascar?

Posted by leo | June 10, 2008 1:23 PM

Tyler Cowen on an alleged problem with my worldview....

Although it is a rather nice example of the relentlessly binary rightwing worldview. "Not-A" must equal B; just as "not-B" must equal A. If I can show one, I get the other. Ta da! The fact that there are 24 other letters in the alphabet and the world is kinda complicated doesn't enter into it.

MY admires Europe, therefore he thinks everything European is better than its American counterpart. But look! Here's something even he would admit is better about America. Therefore there is NOTHING good about Europe and he is wrong wrong wrong!

What a cramped, breathless and ugly little world it is inside their tiny heads.

Posted by DrBB | June 10, 2008 1:24 PM

This should read "laziness." One of the best things about our country is our work ethic. We work harder, and therefore and more productive and richer than any other nation on earth. Why would we want to replicate laziness, mandate 4 day work weeks, or 30-35 hour work weeks? I can't see how that in any way could be good for a society that wants to produce and prosper.

Uh, because "prospering" and "obtaining material possessions" are two different things? What is the point of productivity if it doesn't lead to human happiness? There are tons of Americans who work 60, 65, 70 hours a week. That may make them richer. Does it make them happier?

Life is not what you do in the spaces not filled by work. Work is what you have to do to make your life possible. Devoting 35 hours to work and having a fulfilled life is smart. Devoting 60 hours a week to work in order to make a few thousand dollars more a year is madness.

Posted by Freddie | June 10, 2008 1:28 PM

Kurt Vonnegut flattened Tyler's argument in Slaughterhouse-Five:

America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain't no disgrace to be poor, but might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'If you're so smart, why ain't You rich? ' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child's hand-glued to a lollipop stick and, flying from the cash register.

Posted by Joe Magarac | June 10, 2008 1:33 PM

Ah, there's one instance of American snobbery: the belief that by making bullshit status claims in a certain tone of voice, you'll never be called out. (See also: Brooks, D.)

As a social commentator, Cowen's a good reviewer of restaurants-of-the-previously-colonised. As a political animal, he's essentially trying the old rhetorical tactic of 'if it's not an American idea, it's worthless' -- never mind that the pure products of America have never been the ones most fully embraced or with the biggest impact on American society and culture.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | June 10, 2008 1:36 PM

Millionaires don't look down on NASCAR because millionaires are gearheads too, and race cars are millionaires' playthings.

Even Saturday-night racers on the dirt track circuit can have a quarter million dollars worth of gear. It's not just the car, but also parts, tires, tools and towing rig.

I don't know whether increased marginal sales of Skoal Bandits and Mountain Dew really justify the cost of a multimillion dollar NASCAR rolling billboard, but maybe Tyler Cowen has some data to prove it.

Posted by Aatos | June 10, 2008 1:38 PM

"In this country you can love NASCAR and be proud of it. Millionaires won't look down on you much for that taste."

Actually, millionaires won't admit they look down on you, because by indulging you they figure you'll vote in their interests. Two generations of right-wing politicians ate truckloads of pork rinds and grit their teeth through hours of bad country music on this premise.

A genuine good ol' boy once told me of his distaste for NASCAR: "Why pay to watch guys make 2,000 left turns?"

Posted by allbetsareoff | June 10, 2008 1:40 PM

this strikes me as an odd argument to make coming on the heels of a debate about how many sectors of america, including its politicians and acedemics are too "elite."

Posted by dj spellchecka | June 10, 2008 1:41 PM

I think Europeans have never got over having an aristocracy.

In the US we have the most respect for someone like Sergey Brin. He and his family arrived in the US when he was six, with almost nothing. He did well, went to a good school, started a business, and got rich.

In Austria, Germany, Switzerland and England, that type of person would be looked at with a certain degree of disgust. The fact that he was a Jewish immigrant would drive a large subset of Europeans to distraction.

In America - to a large extent - we respect the brash entrepreneur. In Europe - to a large extent - they respect those possessing the sophistication that can only come from generations untainted by work in trade.

Posted by jmo | June 10, 2008 1:46 PM

Tyler Cowen is pretending not to be a snob????

Pretty funny!

Posted by peep | June 10, 2008 1:48 PM

Elitist pricks here pretending not to be snobs?

Pretty funny!

Posted by Billy Goat | June 10, 2008 1:55 PM

Furthermore it also wishes to claim that wealth isn't a final determinant of happiness (i.e., Europe is worthy), while at the same time circling back to emphasize inequality of wealth as a prima facie fault of the American system.

Yeah, if only there were some concept of "diminishing marginal utility" that would reconcile those two.

Posted by Consumatopia | June 10, 2008 1:56 PM

In this country you can love NASCAR and be proud of it. Millionaires won't look down on you much for that taste. In Europe you are expected to dress well and be educated and not watch too much TV.

Nobody has quite come out and said it, so I will. Tyler Cowen doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

If he has ever set foot in Europe, he has obviously never ventured far afield from the high-rent district of Paris or a few other major cities. We are talking about EUROPE -- the tacky, kitschy continent that gave us Eurovision, the Spice Girls, and the Final freaking Countdown. Where auto racing is popular with millionaires and working-class folk alike. Where middle class slobs go around with their shirts untucked, just like in America. Where David Hasselhoff is a pop star and soccer hooligans sometimes have to be separated by barbed wire from rival fans to avoid crushing each other to death.

If the Europeans Tyler has met look down on people for dressing poorly and watching too much TV, whereas the Americans he knows won't mock people for being proud NASCAR fans, this says more about Tyler Cowen (resident of Virginia and pretentious foodie tourist) than it says about either Europe or the United States.

Posted by LaFollette Progressive | June 10, 2008 1:56 PM

Work is what you have to do to make your life possible. Devoting 35 hours to work and having a fulfilled life is smart. Devoting 60 hours a week to work in order to make a few thousand dollars more a year is madness.

Should people have the right to make that choice?

Posted by jmo | June 10, 2008 1:58 PM

I know people above have already done this, but once more, with feeling, just to drive the point home:

In this country you can love NASCAR and be proud of it.

Not around me you can't.

Posted by Jeff | June 10, 2008 2:04 PM

Should people have the right to make that choice?

They should. I'd maintain that more people in Europe have that choice than in the United States. There are people working more than 35 hours a week in Europe, you know.

I think Europeans have never got over having an aristocracy.

In the US we have the most respect for someone like Sergey Brin. He and his family arrived in the US when he was six, with almost nothing. He did well, went to a good school, started a business, and got rich.

In Austria, Germany, Switzerland and England, that type of person would be looked at with a certain degree of disgust. The fact that he was a Jewish immigrant would drive a large subset of Europeans to distraction.

In America - to a large extent - we respect the brash entrepreneur. In Europe - to a large extent - they respect those possessing the sophistication that can only come from generations untainted by work in trade.

Fine. European culture may have it's shortcomings But you know, making money or accumulating power should not be the defining element of a person's worth, which tends to be the case here. A lot of people got rich by getting lucky or abusing the system. Furthermore, many wise and intelligent people choose not to do this because it wouldn't lead to happiness for them. Our culture improperly devalues these people and places far too much value on various self absorbed *ssholes.

Posted by mpowell | June 10, 2008 2:05 PM

We are talking about EUROPE -- the tacky, kitschy continent that gave us Eurovision, the Spice Girls, and the Final freaking Countdown.

To be fair, I don't think Europe wants the British Isles either.

In Austria, Germany, Switzerland and England, that type of person would be looked at with a certain degree of disgust. The fact that he was a Jewish immigrant would drive a large subset of Europeans to distraction.

It certainly is curious how France managed to escape that deeply ingrained snobbery, then. Do you have any evidence of your claim?

Posted by Cyrus | June 10, 2008 2:16 PM

You think the French elite doesn't look down on Sarkozy? They call him "Sarko l'Americain."

Posted by Simon | June 10, 2008 2:27 PM

Cyrus echoes my thoughts precisely. If we don't have an entrenched aristocracy, how come all our presidents but 1 have been white male protestants?

Plus, what Tyle Cowen describes is not a "sophistication that can come only from generations untainted by work in trade," what he's describing is actually a set of social expectations that are accessible to everyone. In Tyler Cowen's simplified, non-existent example, the tradesman and farmer would be judged not on their financial success, but merely upon their personal choice to eschew television, be well-read from having taken advantage of the free and solid education system, and wear decent clothes instead of tracksuits.

In Cowen's imagined scenario, Europeans have much easier access to social accolades, because they are more accessible, than americans do, because making lots of money is comparatively more difficult. Personally, I think his example and claims are bad ones, but the conclusions his scenario makes the case for the opposite of what he's claiming. In his world, it would be Europe that is the less stratified, because the social cues are more easily accessible to the masses there.

Posted by Tyro | June 10, 2008 2:33 PM

For the life of me, I'll never understand how Matt transitioned from "Rich Americans love NASCAR" to "Dutch transportation policy is teh awesome!!1!"

Posted by Martin | June 10, 2008 2:35 PM

For the life of me, I'll never understand how Matt transitioned from "Rich Americans love NASCAR" to "Dutch transportation policy is teh awesome!!1!"

Posted by Martin | June 10, 2008 2:40 PM

You'll forgive me if I don't get my insights on class and snobbery in America from somebody who publishes 'Tyler Cowen's Ethnic Dining Guide – February 2008, 24th edition'. 24th edition? I'm not sure Harry Potter has gone through 24 editions. Shorter Cowen: Have you tried the yogurt rice at Talledega Speedway? The flavors cried git-r-done! Nice ambiance until Jeff Gordon won. Fans rained down satay on turn 3.

Posted by joejoejoe | June 10, 2008 2:41 PM

What LaFollette Progressive said mainly. Also, generalizing about Europe is a bit of a silly enterprise, since it consists of 27 seven different countries, each with their own distinctive history and sociology and in many cases language. And let's not even go into ethnic groups and regional variations. That said, there is a certain cultural elite, let's say 15%, that values a comprehensive education, erudition, and a sense of style above mere material success, which they don't find terribly interesting. I happen to think that this is a good thing.

Posted by novakant | June 10, 2008 2:41 PM

Tyro,

I agree. I'm not sure how it's supposed to be a criticism for status to be determined by style or wisdom instead of just how much money you make.

Posted by mpowell | June 10, 2008 2:42 PM

In Europe you are expected to dress well and be educated and not watch too much TV

In Tyler Cowan's fantasy version of Europe that may be the case, but in the little corner of Europe in which I live there is not a lot of evidence for this claim. This was also pointed out in the comments on his blog.

Also, the quote from Brendan Caplan Tyler has in his post contains several misperceptions. First, while they may exist, I've never seen toll road in Germany. Secondly, the speed limits in Germany are around 18-30 mph in town, 50-60 on the highways, and the famed Autobahn has a "suggested" speed limit of 80 mph in the unlimited sections and actual speed limits of 60-75 near urban areas (which turns out to be a large percentage of the Autobahn). These are not hugely higher than in the states. Third, these limits are enforced in general with "Blitzers," radar-controlled infrared cameras that take a nice black-and white snapshot of you and your license plate when you get caught. Fourth, traffic jams and congestion are endemic in the Frankfurt-Bremen corridor as well as other larger urban areas, to the extent that they are announced on the radio news every half hour.

Posted by josephdietrich | June 10, 2008 2:52 PM

Work is what you have to do to make your life possible. Devoting 35 hours to work and having a fulfilled life is smart. Devoting 60 hours a week to work in order to make a few thousand dollars more a year is madness.

Should people have the right to make that choice?

Posted by jmo | June 10, 2008 3:05 PM

The fact that he was a Jewish immigrant would drive a large subset of Europeans to distraction.

Obviously, that explains why The Apprentice on the BBC, hosted by self-made Jewish millionaire Alan Sugar, a man who left school at 16, is such a failure.

Oh.

Christ on a bike, let's just say that Thorsten Veblen (American, whose first language was Norwegian) and Pierre Bourdieu (French) did a fuckload of work on cultural distinction and fractionalisation, and Tyler Cowen ain't gonna supplant either of them.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | June 10, 2008 3:15 PM

there is a certain cultural elite, let's say 15%, that values a comprehensive education, erudition, and a sense of style above mere material success, which they don't find terribly interesting. I happen to think that this is a good thing.

Novacant is 100% correct. The old aristocracy feels that money is dirty and should never be talked about - you should have tons of it to be sure - but it should never be discussed, and of course one should never be seen to "work". The same goes for Novacant's 15%. They have their 530d, perfect clothes, perfect apartment, vacation at the right places, etc. But the "material success" it takes to make all that happen? That is something dirty and bad and it should never be talked about.

Posted by jmo | June 10, 2008 3:19 PM

Matt,
What is it you think the US has right about the work/leisure trade-off? That we're one of 4 nations on earth (with Liberia, Papua New Guinea, and Swaziland) that doesn't guarantee paid time off for new parents?
That we're the only advanced nation on earth that doesn't guarantee at least some paid sick days and vacation time for all workers?
That we're the only advanced nation (I believe) that adheres to the "at will work standard" which allows any employer to fire any (non-unionized) worker at any time for any reason other than race or gender discrimination -- or for no reason at all?
Yeah, we've really got those Europeans beat on all this stuff.

Posted by ramendel | June 10, 2008 3:25 PM

pseudonymous in nc:

Obviously, that explains why The Apprentice on the BBC, hosted by self-made Jewish millionaire Alan Sugar, a man who left school at 16, is such a failure.

Are you serious? That's the best you could come up with...?

I'm not saying people like that can't be successful, I'm saying they aren't respected.

Posted by jmo | June 10, 2008 3:28 PM

> work/leisure tradeoff (where I think we're on to something)

You seriously think that *we're* on the right side of that divide?

Money doesn't buy happiness. Time spent with friends and family doing things we enjoy, on the other hand, does make people happy. Even if I'm only speaking for myself on that front, I should at least have the *option* of a shorter work week and more vacation time with a salary proportional to what I'm making now, but in the US such an arrangement just doesn't exist.

But it should - productivity had quadrupled in recent decades. There's no reason we can't funnel some of that into extra leisure time rather than merely pumping out more widgets and sprockets - especially since the average person isn't seeing the financial rewards of that anyway.

Even the Japanese pull off a better work/life balance than we do.

I think there's a lot to be said for the French trade off, and I'd love to see America move in that direction and away from the stress, alienation, and misery that comes with our endemic workaholism.

Posted by Eric | June 10, 2008 3:35 PM

U mean Tyler Cowen won't let me have a civilized country and public policy without the toffs, Sloane Rangers, public schoolboys, hereditary nobility, French chauvinists, and the whole sorry lot of human self-exceptionalism? Waaaaaaahhhhhhhh! Waaaaaaaaahhh!

I'm speechless, I'm slain, I, I, I.... Words fail me. What a useless, moronic rhetorical exercise.

Posted by elle loco | June 10, 2008 3:39 PM

Even the Japanese pull off a better work/life balance than we do.

Nobody who's ever spent any time in Japan - much less nearly a decade, as I have - would give the slightest credence to that statement. Yes, the official labor statistics show that the Japanese, on average, work fewer hours than we do each year, but these stats fall near the "damn lies" end of the spectrum. As an attorney in a major American law firm, I wager that work harder than most people on this site, but my annual hours are probably 60-70% what my Japanese peers work. And my experience dealing with business folks from almost every industry suggests that this pattern holds fairly consistently throughout the economy. Moreover, anyone who's spent any time in Japan will be very familiar with concepts like "service overtime" - overtime a worker donates to the company - and forced early clock-outs for hourly workers to shield employers from complaints to the labor standards bureau for violating work-hour regulations. And don't even get me started on the compulsory, and not-entirely-pleasant, after-work socializing that's as essential to career advancement as the time you're paid to be in the office. In short, if your statistics are telling you that the Japanese are working less than we are, it's time to get new statistics.

For the rest of the posters bemoaning the lack of labor standards, at-will employment, etc., could you at least have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that the changes you'd like to see would inevitably come with trade-offs? You apparently loathe, for example, at-will employment: Ex post - i.e., for those who have jobs - at-will employment may be a good deal (though insofar as it tends to ossify the labor market, making it less liquid and more difficult to find new employment if you're miserable in your current job, that's a debatable proposition), but ex ante - for the poor schmucks on the outside of the labor market looking in - it generally makes finding a job more difficult. We can debate the relative pros and cons of changing the default rule, but it's just asinine to sit around talking about what a paradise it would be if we could do away with the current norms you don't like.

Posted by Richard | June 10, 2008 4:02 PM

Should people have the right to make that choice?

Absolutely, which is why I don't think Matt and Tyler Cowen and other American bloggers should constantly talk shit about the French system. If you want to work 60 hours a week, go for it; but stop attacking the French for valuing free time over capital accumulation.

Posted by Freddie | June 10, 2008 4:08 PM

Simon:

"You think the French elite doesn't look down on Sarkozy? They call him "Sarko l'Americain.""

Even better, the French left call him President Bling Bling.

Posted by Peter K. | June 10, 2008 4:16 PM

I don't concede any of the 'facts' in Cowen's article. They're more like statements of his own worldview.

Posted by Jack H. | June 10, 2008 4:18 PM

That's the best you could come up with...?

In three seconds, which is all your dumb generalisation deserves? Well, I'm busy.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | June 10, 2008 4:29 PM

They have their 530d, perfect clothes, perfect apartment, vacation at the right places, etc. But the "material success" it takes to make all that happen? That is something dirty and bad and it should never be talked about.

Yeah, right. Myself and my friends in the media, arts and academia are all swimming in money and work 30 hour weeks - hey, that's why we studied philosophy, comparative literature, fine arts and assorted other left-field stuff in the first place.

Really, why don't you get out of your basement and meet some real people instead of relying on silly second-hand generalizations - it's pathetic.

Posted by novakant | June 10, 2008 4:30 PM

for those who have jobs - at-will employment may be a good deal (though insofar as it tends to ossify the labor market, making it less liquid and more difficult to find new employment if you're miserable in your current job, that's a debatable proposition), but ex ante - for the poor schmucks on the outside of the labor market looking in - it generally makes finding a job more difficult.

True. I recently became a public employee, and the security is great... but I'm glad I had six months of unemployment checks to keep me going while I was waiting for all the wheels to turn in the personnel office.

Posted by Adam Villani | June 10, 2008 4:31 PM

To employ a Friedmanesque analogy, America is like C.J. from Baywatch and Europe is like Borat.

Posted by Peter K. | June 10, 2008 5:05 PM

novakant - All I can say is I lived in Frankfurt and Munich and where you lived, what you wore, what degrees you had, and (being Germany) what you drove, were of paramount importance. That being said, any talk of career and money was strictly verboten.

I'll give you another example. In Germany most people opt not to put the model badges on the trunks of their cars - it's considered tacky. So, you will not be able to tell if an E-Class Mercedes is a 29,000EUR E200 or a 90,000EUR E550. You will however notice the larger tires and different exhaust.

It all goes back to the American idea of - if you've got it flaunt it - to the European idea of - if you've got it flaunt it, but do it subtley.

Posted by jmo | June 10, 2008 5:08 PM

"For the rest of the posters bemoaning the lack of labor standards, at-will employment, etc., could you at least have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that the changes you'd like to see would inevitably come with trade-offs"

Don't talk to us about intellectual honesty when you are basically whoring yourself to the winning side in the class war.

"Trade-offs" is a rather weasley, general term. Often in real life there aren't trade offs. The politically stronger side comes out ahead while the weaker side gets screwed. One recent example is the government bailout of Bear Stearns. Socialism for the rich, the harsh free market for the poor. That's the American system.

Posted by Peter K. | June 10, 2008 5:17 PM

What "pseudonymous in nc" said. I call this type of I call this type of "in America, people do x" BS a Brooksian Generalization.

Posted by space2k | June 10, 2008 5:36 PM

What "pseudonymous in nc" said. I call this type of "in America, people do x" BS a Brooksian Generalization.

Posted by space2k | June 10, 2008 5:36 PM

1. Europeans have national health insurance.

2. A European 8 yr. old knows more about geography, history, art, literature, psychology, philosophy, and geopolitics than a U.S. college graduate.

Now, you can make money quicker here and more of it, but there's much more whoring after status, keeping up with the Glucksteins insanity, a bread and circus spectator society, child abductions, serial killers, sexual deviants, rotten public education, bad values, and overall neurosis. At the same time - there are a lot of natural wonders here, excellent colleges, and wide diversity of peoples. I have relatives who fought against the Brits in the Revolutionary War and I love this country. but, it's a tough place to live now, and getting tougher.

Posted by Trevor | June 10, 2008 5:53 PM

Folks, meet Peter K - hawking the finest ad hominem the left has to offer. If he could drag himself away from his bong long enough to market it, he, too, could become a successful member of the oppressor class.

Seriously, though, since I apparently fall on the "rich" side of the class-war lines (though I still can't figure out why many of the folks on the other side of this war can apparently afford their own homes and flat-screen TVs, while I still live on a mattress on the floor), I'd certainly like your guidance as to where I can get a hold of some of this socialism for the rich, since you seem to have the system figured out - because I certainly haven't seen any of it trickling down my way.

Posted by Richard | June 10, 2008 5:55 PM

2. A European 8 yr. old knows more about geography, history, art, literature, psychology, philosophy, and geopolitics than a U.S. college graduate.

Do you have a source for that, or is it just hyperbole?

Posted by Adam Villani | June 10, 2008 6:43 PM

Richard, he Peter K. didn't say you were on the winning side of the class war. He said you were whoring yourself to the winning side. There's a difference.

And, of course, Adam Villani puts the tradeoffs in perspective quite well.

Posted by Tyro | June 10, 2008 6:44 PM

Richard, you need to get back to your remedial reading class. I know summer school sucks, but really, you need the work.

He didn't say you were on the winning side, he said you were whoring yourself to the winning side. Which is much worse. Nothing is more annoying than aspirational assholery.

Posted by nolaboyd | June 10, 2008 7:03 PM

Nothing is more annoying than aspirational assholery.

Unless it's someone trying to be really funny and cute, and failing miserably.

Posted by Brad | June 10, 2008 7:16 PM

Re: but I don't see any evidence whatsoever that the United States actually is a snob-free country where rich people don't do any looking down at their social inferiors.

Of course we have snobs-- could a nation of 300 million be without any? Most snobbery though is found in the Middle Class, not the rich. The American rich make a huge show of pretending they're just plain folks. Even when they are being ostentatious they are doing so in a very prole-like manner.
re: Do you have a source for that, or is it just hyperbole?

It's hyperbole of course. The only thing that equals the Europhobia of the Right is the Europhilia of the Left.

Posted by JonF | June 10, 2008 8:35 PM

NO!

You have to choose, Yglesias!
Are European things good and flawless and pure, or are American ones superior? You can't see virtue and imperfection in both!

That would be.... nuanced. And we all know why that's a bad thing. John Kerry proved it, back in 2004.

Posted by Anthony Damiani | June 10, 2008 9:33 PM

Matt, you might be right about the work/leisure thing. But you really take way too many vacations to be a good American.

Posted by Nat | June 10, 2008 9:54 PM

" Most snobbery though is found in the Middle Class, not the rich. "

This is certainly true in the UK as well, and probably most places with any sort of class structure (yes, the US does have one, it's just different). There's a very famous Btitish sitcom, Keeping Up Appearances, devoted to this phenomenon.

Posted by Ginger Yellow | June 11, 2008 9:58 AM

Has Tyler Cowen ever visited a country club. This hogwash about the American rich sharing cultural values with the middle class has got to stop. I will tell you, rich people often spend little time mingling with middle class people. From grade school through college they are usually insulated from "others" and then they go into a workforce in which they are superior to those from the middle class (secretaries and such).

Just because they both like sports and beer does not mean they share--or even come into contact with--values with "other" Americans.

Posted by jeff | June 11, 2008 1:01 PM

Tyler wins the argument every single time he projects wingnut stereotypes of "The Left" onto little straw armies. It's like they don't even fight back!

Tyler Cowen in Straw Wars: The Phantom Left

Posted by Thomas Allen | June 11, 2008 1:30 PM

Richard, let me apologize for my ad hominem. Perhaps you have Stockholm syndrome?

I agree with you that the Japanese work longer hours, but America is pretty bad, especially when you factor in vacation time.

Posted by Peter K. | June 11, 2008 5:18 PM