Turns out the Denver Airport has an indoor smoking lounge, a sign that despite Barack Obama's lead in the polls Colorado's not yet a truly blue state. But the fact that I immediately interpret the signal that way is a reminder that it's a bit strange that relatively smoker-friendly public policy is typical of both middle America and the dread Europeans.
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Bringing the World Together
30 Jun 2008 02:05 pm
Comments (34)
This is not uncommon, is it?
smoking...a sign that...Colorado's not yet a truly blue state.
Are you high????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_86_(2006)
Shockingly CW-laden and fact-free, even for you, Matt.
I know you get a lot of flack for being a "trust-fund" liberal, but in this case, it's accurate: opposition to smoking is largely a CLASS-based issue. If you come from a place where it's a left-wing issue, maybe it's because you live in an environment where the liberals are rich and the poor people are conservative.
forgive my inability to embed links, but matt might be interested in this story from last week:
Denver recently approved a measure making possession of a small amount of marijuana legal, so the next logical step in opening places in which to smoke the reefer was obviously Denver International Airport. That's what a group of activists called Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation (SAFER) are trying to do.
Feel free to ggogle for the rest
Europe is going the other way fast. I can't believe how compliant the French and Italians are to smoking bans. These are people who really, really like smoking. The way they roll over for the anti-smoking Nazis makes you understand how...
No, I should stop there.
Dread Europeans? I think Schiphol's central smoking section in the non-Schengen area has gone, and smoking bans are rolling across western half of the continent.
There is, however, a reason for major international hubs to have a smoking section: you really don't want people on long layovers after long flights to go absolutely fucking cold turkey batshit.
(I'd also suggest that airlines stock nicotine gum or lozenges on long flights, and hubs have places selling them.)
Well, Florida has a smoking ban. Florida has been a swing state for Presidential races recently, but VERY Republican on state legislative and cabinet races. It also has regions that qualify as deeply Southern, urban, suburban, touristy, and a strong representation of a variety of ethnic groups and socioeconomic classes.
In 2002, the smoking ban passed here with 72% voting in favor. To me that says that A LOT of every demo supported it.
And now Matt's commentators can show the world their liberal tolerance for the life-style choices of others.
OK, I'll bite. I think people should be allowed to kill themselves with cigarettes, as long as they don't force others to breathe in their smoke. I'm not allowed to crank up a boom box to ear splitting levels in a park because it is both annoying and injurious to nearby people. I view smoking as the same way. On the few occasions during the year that I smoke a cigar, I keep it away from others so I don't force anybody else to move from my smoke.
I also support insurance companies charging much higher rates on smokers. No reason for everybody to subsidize risky behavior.
I quite smoking last year, and am in favor of smoking bans in general... but a smoker's lounge in an airport strikes me as a wonderful thing. You know how tense people can get when they travel? You know how irritable people going through nicotine withdrawal can be? You also know how long it takes to get through security?
As long as it's got it's own ventilation, I'd think they should do that wherever they can.
I hope those shelters don't go away, if only because they represent my plan to keep my daughters from smoking.
I figure the sight of twenty or so middle-aged business travelers huddled into a 10'x 5' clear plastic box desperately sucking on cigarettes should be enough to disabuse them of the notion that smoking is cool.
As long as it's got it's own ventilation, I'd think they should do that wherever they can.
I'd agree. As long as you have truly effective separation of smoking and non-smoking areas, and workers (e.g. waitstaff) aren't forced to be in those areas, it should be allowed. The problem is that in many cases, separation of smoking and non-smoking areas is a bit of a joke.
It might be worth noting that the smoking lounge in DIA is one of all of a handful of places in the state that someone can smoke in a "public" place.
This story ( http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9459394/detail.html ) says Colorado was the 13th state to pass such a ban almost 2 years ago...
And yes, the smoking lounge at DIA is its own, self-contained, smokers paradise... leaving the rest of the airport smoke free.
I hope those shelters don't go away, if only because they represent my plan to keep my daughters from smoking.
I figure the sight of twenty or so middle-aged business travelers huddled into a 10'x 5' clear plastic box desperately sucking on cigarettes should be enough to disabuse them of the notion that smoking is cool.
Posted by JohnMcG | June 30, 2008 2:37 PM
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Just to be clear, the smoking lounges at DIA MY is talking about are really bars. They are the same as the other bars in the airport except they have doors (the others open onto the concourse) with warning signs that they are smoking areas.
Not little plexiglass boxes - and I agree it's probably a deterrent as you say
It might be worth noting that the smoking lounge in DIA is one of all of a handful of places in the state that someone can smoke in a "public" place.
This story ( http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9459394/detail.html ) says Colorado was the 13th state to pass such a ban almost 2 years ago...
"I figure the sight of twenty or so middle-aged business travelers huddled into a 10'x 5' clear plastic box desperately sucking on cigarettes should be enough to disabuse them of the notion that smoking is cool."
Exactly. Walking by the airport Cancer Closet, the shapes of the smokers only dimly visible through blue-gray smog so thick you could cut it with a knife, is a great object lesson for young people. There ought to be a sign over the door that reads "ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE".
Barack Obama is a smoker, so maybe this helps him.
@ LFC
I entirely agree with you, I'm happily an ex-smoker myself. That said, the levels of hatred lots of lefties (of which I'm one btw) display for smokers is often stunning. And usually very class based.
I tend to imagine that people who hate smokers that much would also be generally pre-disposed to interfere in the lives of others.
(If you can find Matt's last smoking thread you'll see what I mean)
If we're ever going to end the hideously wasteful war on drugs it will require more tolerance for people doing unhealthy things to themselves, not less.
Also, smoking boxes made me quit, I　travel frequently, and it was just too sad.
Marty, the sad thing is that there are actually people pulling in good money to do that very type of "analysis".
Marty, the sad thing is that there are actually people pulling in good money to do that very type of "analysis".
Yo, that shit is real. Do not underestimate the power of the low-information voter. They'd vote for Seacrest if they could.
Not sure if Houston and/or Dallas fit Matt's definition of "middle America" but in both places smoking is banned damn near everywhere, including bars and public parks.
Beyond the class issues others have mentioned, I'd imagine smoking has an urban vs. rural element, too. And it is quite prevalent in the upper "manufacturing" midwest, too...
Scythia, are you TRYING to depress me? (Not that I'm saying you're wrong...)
Too much time spent canvassing.
Would you like to hear about how John Kerry's gonna take away your gun? How George Bush is the only thing saving the Democrats from destroying the environment? How Jesus selects leaders for a reason, even if they take cut your welfare benefits and start wars you don't agree with?
I got a million of 'em.
Just to be clear, the smoking lounges at DIA MY is talking about are really bars.
And those tend to be pretty crappy places.
One of the Atlanta gates has a glass box style area with something approaching its own ventilation system. That's a little creepy: it's like a laboratory fume cupboard.
Still, the 'middle-aged business traveller' thing is slightly off the mark: you want to know who you'll find in smoking rooms at American airports these days? People in desert-spec uniform. I don't smoke now, but when I did, some years ago, I usually ended up chatting to someone going to or from the sandbox.
As an attorney for the state of Colorado charged with enforcing and defending the smoking ban from time to time, the story behind the DIA smoking lounge is that it's been there since 9/11 because of DIA's single security checkpoint and have-to-ride-a-train-to-get-to-the-gates layout. Bars and restaurants in DIA argued (somewhat persuasively) that it would be impractical to "make" people go through the ordeal of taking the train back to the concourse, smoking outside, going back through the awful security line, then taking the train back to the relevant terminal to have a smoke. And for a lot of people, if you can't smoke, you won't drink.
Colorado is actually an intensely anti-smoking state. Combination of younger and affluent residents, an active population (smoking and mountain climbing do not go well together), and the altitude and dryness (which tends to exaggerate the downside of smoking while minimizing the pleasure).
Scythia, just so we're clear: no such place exists as the one you posited in your first comment. Using the broader metric of party preference, that is, there is nowhere in this country where poor people vote for Democrats and rich people vote for Republicans. (Smoking preference is a different matter; I tend to agree this would be associated with affluent liberal sorts.)
Poorer states are getting increasingly Republican-friendly and rich states are getting increasingly Democrat-friendly, but within states rich people still tend to vote for Republicans and poor people still tend to vote for Democrats. The key is the variance in preferences of rich and poor people within those states. The income vs. likelihood to vote Republican correlation is low in rich states and high in poor states. Perhaps it's because there's not quite as much potential to be "dragged down," or perhaps it's because more of the social programs are available to them too, or perhaps it's because they're just so rich that they don't even notice the loss or perhaps they're just awesome that way. But one way or another, in no state or (I believe) county is it true that poor people are more likely to vote Republican than rich people are.
See this PDF for the more detailed version.
I don't smoke, but if I did, I wouldn't want to do it in Denver. I used to be a regular jogger and I now do Bikram Yoga a few times per week, so my lungs are halfway decent, and I could NOT breathe with the altitude up there. I can't remember the last time back on the coast I got winded going DOWN stairs.
LFC says:
"I'm not allowed to crank up a boom box to ear splitting levels in a park because it is both annoying and injurious to nearby people."
No. But you are allowed to go to a club that plays music at ear-splitting levels. You are allowed to go to bars that play music at ar-splitting levels. You are allowed to go to clothing stores that play music at ear-splitting levels. You are allowed to rent out a hall, host a wedding and play music at ear-splitting levels.
People who don't want to hear it can go elsewhere. People who don't want to work in it can work elsewhere.
Matthew Y., does Obama still smoking (as of a few months ago) affect your view of his judgment? Clearly several successful presidents have smoked cigarettes, but there has been a lot of new evidence on the harmful effects that has come out in recent years.
Thanks.
Yeah, people shoul stop that unhealthy behavior of smoking and take up the much healthier behavior of anal sex, which is a civil right, as it of course has no health implications whatsoever.
"Well, Florida has a smoking ban. Florida has been a swing state for Presidential races recently, but VERY Republican on state legislative and cabinet races. It also has regions that qualify as deeply Southern, urban, suburban, touristy, and a strong representation of a variety of ethnic groups and socioeconomic classes."
Florida! The process of having a smoke during your layover in Orlando involves taking a frickin' train.
I think it's a function of design. Once you past security and onto the main concourses, you literally can't go outside. If they had an outdoor area, they probably would have made that the smoking lounge. Since they don't...
This is the next best compromise.
And if I read other people's comments, I would have seen the same point made earlier...
Man, the States is paradise for smokers compared to here in Canada. A pack is $10.50, twice California! (The dollars are at par these days, btw.) That's something like $7 in pure punitive tax! A pack-a-day minimum wage worker probably spends 20% of his salary on smokes! And no left wing party will touch the issue. Since when was it a socialist ideal to crush the poor?
Jesus Christ, what's with all the self-righteous hatred and class-conscious sneer? (Coming in MY's case from an ex-smoker even - some converts just seem to go from one extreme to the other.)
I'm in the curious position of being a smoker who doesn't drink or take any other drugs that mess with your mind. And while I don't mind people drinking or taking soft drugs at all (within reasonable limits) it is rather interesting to observe how differently society treats alcohol vs nicotine consumption. Also, the class-based 'analysis' is totally arbitrary (and applicable probably only in the US): I know a lot of members of both the economic and the cultural elite who smoke.
Comments closed July 14, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
And now Matt's commentators can show the world their liberal tolerance for the life-style choices of others.
(Steve Duncan can preemptively go fuck himself)
Posted by hlem | June 30, 2008 2:15 PM