Count Every Vote

Chris Orr demands justice for Michigan and their Pistons:

Once you abandon the artificial four-games-to-two framework that the media has tried to impose on the series, a very different picture emerges, with the Celtics leading by a mere 549 points to 539. Yes that’s right, the margin between the two teams is less than one percent—a tie, for all intents and purposes. This is probably the closest Conference Finals in NBA history, though I will thank you not to check on that.

There's more at the link.

Comments

Just as long as the NBA doesn't seat the Celtics' front court along with the Pistons' backcourt in the finals against the Lakers, I'll be happy.

Posted by SoCalJustice | June 3, 2008 2:51 PM

You gonna at least credit SCMT, who mentioned this on the Saunders thread? Anyway, I'll repeat what I posted there.

This parable would make more sense if Hillary was, you know, mathematically eliminated like the Pistons are.

Orr's argument is more like the Celtics arguing that the series should be stopped after they won Game 5. I mean, it was pretty damned unlikely that the Pistons were going to come back and win both games 6 and 7. Much better for the Eastern Conference if the Pistons just dropped out after Game 5 to give the Celtics more time to rest up for the Lakers, right?

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 2:58 PM

That's kinda sorta funny but everybody should know that Pistons GM Joe Dumars would NEVER make those kind of excuses. He's a champion, a Hall of Famer, and the NBA gives out a trophy for sportsmanship that just happens to be called the Joe Dumars Award.

Posted by joejoejoe | June 3, 2008 3:12 PM

Good points above, but I also vaguely remember some sort of controversy in 2000 when the Democrats' rallying cry was "Popular Vote! Popular Vote!"

Posted by Brad | June 3, 2008 3:20 PM

Brad, I don't recall anyone saying that we should scrap the electoral college after-the-fact and Gore should be president based on the popular vote. If that were so Florida wouldn't have mattered.

Posted by Tony Adams | June 3, 2008 3:24 PM

Nobody argued in 2000 that Gore should win based on the nation-wide popular vote. The argument was that he won the popular vote in Florida and thus the electoral college.

How many times must this be explained to you?

But then you don't really care about the facts, do you?

Posted by Eric | June 3, 2008 3:25 PM

The 'parable' would make more sense if all of a sudden if the results of two exhibition games were being included... and the Celtics didn't even play in one of those, you know, resting up for the next offical game.

Posted by travc | June 3, 2008 3:32 PM

The "parable" also has to include the Pistons repeatedly fouling the Cs while being down by 15 points with 30 seconds left...AND it has to include the Pistons saying that some of the Celtics players should switch sides.

Mike

Posted by MBunge | June 3, 2008 3:40 PM

travc: Are you saying that those loyal fans who turned out for those exhibition games think their attendance didn't count? How do you expect them to come to the regular season games if you say you're not going to count it when they do show up?

Posted by El Cid | June 3, 2008 3:41 PM

Back in the day I remember a Bullets-Celtics series--not the finals but along the way. Celtics in four games by a total of 5 points. Bird shook Ballard's hand with respect. No question of the outcome...just good play.

Posted by djeri | June 3, 2008 3:42 PM

Nobody argued in 2000 that Gore should win based on the nation-wide popular vote.

Really? Nobody?

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 3:48 PM

AND it has to include the Pistons saying that some of the Celtics players should switch sides.

Heh. Kevin Garnett has pledged to play for the Celtics, but there's no rule that says he can't put the ball in the other team's basket if something changed his mind. Once he realizes that the Celtics can't beat the Lakers, he'll start scoring for the Pistons to ensure that the Eastern Conference can win in June.

Al, one guy in Slate doesn't constitute a groundswell of support for overturning the electoral college after the fact. But congratulations on proving Eric's rhetorical claim to be technically untrue.

Posted by ibid | June 3, 2008 4:05 PM

Ok, one person.

Jeez...

Posted by Tony | June 3, 2008 4:06 PM

PS: Please don't read my last comment as strident complaining... reading it myself a few minutes after writing it, it comes off worse than it did at the time. Some people are a wee bit touchy just now.

The RBC sausage making compromises seemed fairly reasonable and their logic did actually make sense (even if you don't quite agree with it).

And I'd like to note that the actual campaigns (even Clinton's) have really been getting more and more reasonable and 'high-ground' since after PA. Supporters, well, maybe not so much ;)

Posted by travc | June 3, 2008 4:06 PM

The Celtics win game 1 and immediately claim that the Pistons should drop out of the race so that the Eastern Conference has a chance to prevail in the finals against the evil west. They further assert that the Celtics are "the team of change" who "transcend traditional east-west rivalries". Pistons win game 2, Celtics win game three and Pistons win game four, Celtics win game 5. Celtics supporters again urge the Pistons to drop out, this time claiming the Pistons are racists. Further, they claim the Celtics lead is insurmountable. 'The math simply does not favor a Pistons victory', not least because of the new proportionally alloted victories based on who won a higher percentage of quarters. Thus, somehow, The Celtics actually won game four. Pistons win game six by forty points. Pistons are called names by bloggers. Game seven is decided by East coast general managers, coaches, players and ball boys known as "Super Delegates". The Western Conference laughs its ass off.

Posted by Nathan | June 3, 2008 4:07 PM

And you could do a nice one of "scored more points in each three of quarters in the Super Bowl," which would obviously be important in deciding to overturn the actual result in how many years...?

Posted by wj | June 3, 2008 4:09 PM

The purpose of the nominating contest is to select the best general contest candidate. Were Obama a sports team, we would describe him as "backing into" the playoffs after the bruising he's taken since March. The media, and the left in general, can't stand this thought, so they are busily trying to eliminate it from discussion.

If Obama loses the general, I don't think I'd blame Hillary for thinking "I told you so".

Now, consider this: If Hillary were the nominee, I'd have to actually think about the election. I dislike McCain enough that it's not clear to me how the "lesser of two evils" story would play out for me. With Obama though, it's no contest - as despicable as McCain is, Obama is just a whole ton worse.

I seriously doubt that I'm the only Republican thinking that way, either - regardless of the "Obama unity" fantasies that seem to be prevalent right now

Posted by James Robertson | June 3, 2008 4:12 PM

It's a parody of certain types of arguments being made by the Clinton campaign, Al. And, at the end of today (or soon thereafter), all the games will have been played.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 3, 2008 4:12 PM

Only one guy in Slate? Are you sure?

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 4:17 PM

George Will actually managed to get a pretty good column (or at least the beginning of one) out of the analogy of these Clinton arguments to those you can get from any Yankee fan of a certain age who will stridently note that, in the 1960 World Series, the Yanks outscored the Bucs by 55 runs to 27 and so were the clearly superior team.

Obviously, only the automaton tools of the groupthink oppressors would be limited by the establishment metric - first team with four victories, wins.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/looking_for_a_metric.html

Posted by Rod Hoffman | June 3, 2008 4:18 PM

It's a parody of certain types of arguments being made by the Clinton campaign, Al.

I understand that, SCMT. I'm not a moron. The parody simply breaks down since Hillary, unlike the Pistons, will not have been mathematically eliminated until tonight.

(I did say in another thread, BTW, that I'd support a change in the NBA rules to move to the winner being decided by aggregate points in all seven games, rather than winner of four out of seven.)

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 4:24 PM

Hey, here's another guy who was advocating the Electoral College name Gore, as popular vote winner, President. They're all over the place!

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 4:28 PM

I understand that, SCMT. I'm not a moron.

I thought you might have read it primarily as a brief for why she should have dropped out earlier. The parody doesn't depend on the contests being over, because the specific sort of arguments it's making fun of are ones that reconceptualize the game on the fly. Dumars could have made the same arguments before the series ended, perhaps in the fourth quarter of game six.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 3, 2008 4:31 PM

And The Nation was on board in advocating that the Electoral College choose Gore because he won the popular vote, too! Those people were everywhere! (I don't think I need to go on.)

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 4:39 PM

Please note that Timothy Noah, the writer for Slate and Timothy Noah, the writer for Slate are indeed the same person.

Posted by Aaron | June 3, 2008 4:41 PM

Please note that Timothy Noah, the writer for Slate and Timothy Noah, the writer for Slate are indeed the same person.

Posted by Aaron | June 3, 2008 4:41 PM

Hey, here's another guy who was advocating the Electoral College name Gore, as popular vote winner, President. They're all over the place!

Actually, they appear to be all over at Slate.

Posted by Tony | June 3, 2008 4:43 PM

This parable would make more sense if Hillary was, you know, mathematically eliminated like the Pistons are.

The problem is that we've had candidates who have been mathematically eliminated (Kennedy, Jackson, Bradley) who still like to go to party convention and poop in the punch bowl anyways. I'd like to blame it all on the superdelegates, but it can't be blamed all that little antidemocratic part of the process.

That said, Hillary's arguments are fueled by some combination of dishonest, crazy and stupid.

Posted by ben | June 3, 2008 4:45 PM

Please note that Timothy Noah, the writer for Slate and Timothy Noah, the writer for Slate are indeed the same person.

Please note that Timothy Noah, the reporter for Slate, is actually citing actions by Bob Beckel and an op-ed by Daniel Schorr. Please further note that Bob Beckel and Daniel Schorr are not the same person as Timothy Noah.

Posted by Al | June 3, 2008 4:50 PM

A couple of articles from The Nation and Slate does not a "Democrats' rallying cry" make. The vast majority of Democrats in 2000 just wanted the vote in Florida to be accurately counted.

Posted by Tony | June 3, 2008 4:50 PM

A couple of articles from The Nation and Slate does not a "Democrats' rallying cry" make. The vast majority of Democrats in 2000 just wanted the vote in Florida to be accurately counted.

Posted by Tony | June 3, 2008 4:52 PM

HOLY CRAP!!! YOU'RE RIGHT!!!! I totally forgot that I, a Democrat, and all the other Democrats were rallying around the cry to subvert the electoral college because Gore won the popular vote. How the hell could I have forgotten that? Duh! [slaps forehead]

Golly, I'm sorry for doubting you and thanks for your persistence in reminding me!

Posted by Tony | June 3, 2008 4:59 PM

Daniel Schorr is a Democrat?

Posted by Aaron | June 3, 2008 5:11 PM

(Seriously, I thought he was farther to the left than the Democratic Party. I am unable to find a reference either way.)

Posted by Aaron | June 3, 2008 5:22 PM

Read the state from Joe Dumars and it is absolutely hysterical.

Baskets counted didn't save Flip.

Boy am I glad NBA finals do not start tonight!

Posted by Julia | June 3, 2008 5:31 PM

Isn't it shameful that we have a system that allows the election of someone who does not win the popular vote? And who then turns out to have a disatrous presidency? I can't see what Al is so pleased about, frankly.

Posted by David in NY | June 3, 2008 7:36 PM