Matthew Yglesias (June 23, 2008) - Country Club'd (Politics)

What, no mention of lattes???

Posted by Roddy McCorley | June 23, 2008 4:37 PM

We know this person like we know most of what we know -- from TV and movies.

Posted by peep | June 23, 2008 4:39 PM

Rove's mistake is that Obama does not come across like this at all. These memes have to have at least a thin connection to common perceptions to take hold. Kerry was perceived as a flip-flopper, and it's a short jump to conclude (falsely) that a flip-flopper is also a faux war hero.

Obama does have a touch of arrogance about him, but it's the friendly arrogance of the straight A student with really good social skills. You want to be mad at them, but you can't sustain it because they're too nice.

The idea that Obama would make snide remarks about anyone does not withstand actual observation of him on television. Like Reagan, you can criticize him for being too earnest or naive, but "snide remarks" implies a self-aware cynicism which Obama completely lacks.

If the political environment were neutral, the "naive" meme might have a chance. But the things about which Obama is purportedly naive are the exact same things the public wants and did not get from the current administration. E.g., McCain's criticism of Obama's desire to meet with foreign leaders only reinforces to the voters how McCain is on the other side from them on foreign policy.

Posted by Greg Abbott | June 23, 2008 4:39 PM

No, Matt, Rove's intended implication is that Obama is the dude at the country club -- that the upper middle-class lawyer is an elitist, unlike salt of the earth John McCain. Remember, class warfare only counts as such if you're the side that's losing.

Posted by Steve | June 23, 2008 4:39 PM

I posted this over at Carpetbagger as well but, as much as I try to stay way from amateur psychoanalysis, this seems like a pretty transparent case of jealousy to me. Karl doesn't like Obama because he exudes how much superior he is to Karl and people like him. Smarter, better looking, more well liked etc. Its difficult to see how his comment even makes sense unless the presumption is that Rove just has a feeling of being very small compared to someone like Obama.

Posted by brent | June 23, 2008 4:43 PM

I've been to a couple country clubs in my time, and I'd say Josh's (and Jake Tapper's) racial angle is legit.

Interestingly, this story appeared on Drudge for seemingly about 2 milliseconds, but he seems to have decided it doesn't suit his purposes.

Posted by southpaw | June 23, 2008 4:45 PM

I think this says a lot more about Rove's insecurities than it does about Obama.

After all, Rove was/is probably the target of such snarkery. Such as:

"Hey, look at that bald, Pillsbury doughboy looking douchebag."

or

"Hey. George Costanza! If I were you're mom I'd have checked myself out, too."

or

"There goes Karl. Doesn't he look like he should be parked outside a pre-school luring little boys into his conversion van?"

or

"There goes that guy who ruined the reputation of the Republican party for a generation."

No wonder Karl thinks Obama is that guy. Karl's probably run into a shit ton of them in his lifetime.

Posted by calipygian | June 23, 2008 4:45 PM

Shorter Karl Rove:

Barack Obama IS James Bond.

Posted by Joe | June 23, 2008 4:47 PM

I'd like to order Rover shaken, not stirred.

Posted by John Haber | June 23, 2008 4:47 PM

I can't figure out what Rove is trying to say here. As others have noted, he's making Obama sound like a cross between James Bond and George W. Bush. The metaphor is way too muddled to have any bite.

I can't believe we lost three elections to this guy. He sure can put together a turnout operation, though.

Posted by Gabriel | June 23, 2008 4:48 PM

Perhaps sometime in Karl's past he walked by the good looking guy with the hot date and the martini, and overheard him snicker and comment about the fat, bald, pasty-faced dweeb that just came in. Sure, he "know's this guy."

Posted by red@cted | June 23, 2008 4:49 PM

It's the "beautiful date" part that has a subtle racial tinge, in my opinion. Remember the "call me, Harry" commercial from the Tennessee senate campaign? The idea is that black men are a bunch of playboys.

Which is kind of ironic, since Obama appears to be the most committed family man of any presidential candidate ever.

Posted by Noah | June 23, 2008 4:51 PM

Wow. What a douche.

Posted by Rhoda | June 23, 2008 4:52 PM

He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.

Exactly. Just like the communist, secret Muslim that he is.

Posted by SoCalJustice | June 23, 2008 4:53 PM

Having grown up as the middle class kid surrounded by upper-middle-class country club-goers, I feel I can say with authority that, no, Obama does not come across as this guy. George W. Bush is that guy.

Rove's intended implication is that Obama is the dude at the country club

Except that Rove is describing Obama as, "the kind of guy who's a member of your country club that you hate." How many of us are members of country clubs?

Rove's better when he sticks to schoolyard metaphors. Besides, those schoolyard insecurities are the crucible in which his ideology was formed.

Posted by Tyro | June 23, 2008 4:55 PM

Lately I often find myself quoting Burns in that Simpsons episode where Homer is the union rep: "Smithers, I'm beginning to think that Karl Rove is not the brilliant tactician I thought he was."

Virtually everything he had to say about either party's primary on Fox News was pretty darn wrong. Ditto his post-resignation editorial efforts. He's a dumb crook, as the whole Plamegate, Abramoff, U.S. Attorney saga amply demonstrated. He let Bush try to put Harriet Miers on the SCOTUS for chrissakes. He hasn't really been right about much of anything in almost four years.

Not to mention that he almost lost a re-election campaign starting at a 90+% approval rating three years earlier, and armed with a photo of a disheveled Saddam Hussein being yanked out of a fox hole ten months previous, cheered on by a lap dog press the likes of which will never be seen again. He also DID lose a race against the VP of an impeached and disgraced President with an adoring press corps(e) and with a candidate that could raise more money than anyone had ever seen. What has he really done other than winning some judicial races in Alabama and getting extremely lucky?

Posted by MSB | June 23, 2008 4:55 PM

It's a telling commentary Rove is a prominent fixture on Fox news and at the same time serves up red meat on the Republican speech circuit. Yes, yes, you have such characters on the left also. Begala and Carville leap to mind. Rove dispenses with any notion of impartiality though yet gets a gig with the news division at Fox. It won't happen but I'd love to see Obama label Fox for what it is and pull their credentials for the White House press room. Just announce they're the National Enquirer only with more money. Say they have no business reporting on governmental matters as if they distribute the truth or at least a reasonable fascimile. Instruct all White House employees, the Cabinet and the military interviews with Fox aren't authorized. Great fantasy, huh? Not enough stones in anyone's shorts to do it though.

Posted by steve duncan | June 23, 2008 4:55 PM

What country club that Karl Rove has ever been to would allow Obama to come to one of their parties?

Posted by dearleader nyc | June 23, 2008 4:56 PM

"Obama appears to be the most committed family man of any presidential candidate ever"

So, you don't think he has ever so mucah as lusted in his heart?

Posted by zaleriana | June 23, 2008 4:56 PM

Wait, you're telling me that a trust fund scumbag has never been to a countryclub? What is this world coming to?

Also, what is the electability of James Bond? Doesn't that depend on who is James Bond? If Barack Obama is Sean Connery then this one is in the bag. Roger Moore, iffy. Dalton? Then we might be looking at 4 more years (or would that be 4 Moore years?).

Posted by freddiemac | June 23, 2008 4:57 PM

Yeah, that doesn't even make any sense. Guys with beautiful dates are busy mingling, showing off their beautiful dates. The guys standing off to the sides and making snide remarks are the ones without beautiful dates.

Posted by blah | June 23, 2008 4:58 PM

I don't actually know that guy at the country club, but I think I would totally dig him. But of course I am an unpatriotic elitist tax and spend liberal homosexual terrorist-lover.

Posted by bobbo | June 23, 2008 4:59 PM

So Barack Obama is basically Chevy Chase's character in Caddyshack?

Obama does have a touch of arrogance about him, but it's the friendly arrogance of the straight A student with really good social skills. You want to be mad at them, but you can't sustain it because they're too nice.

Greg Abbott makes him sound more like David Watts. Rove is sure picking a weird set of cultural references here.

Posted by Pesto | June 23, 2008 5:01 PM

Isn't referring to typical country club personalities a tad elitist to begin with? You know the kind of guy... always throwing Faberge eggs from his 80 foot yacht... Huh? And does Rove really need to go to a country club to have people make snide comments about him as he passes by?

Posted by Jack | June 23, 2008 5:02 PM

This makes me wonder once again why people think Karl Rove is such a stellar political mind. He's not. His only successful (and corrosive) insight was that Republicans could be elected if they did everything in their power to politicize terrorism and the Iraq War. Apart from that he's been a total botch. Look at the 2006 midterms, the Valerie Plame and Justice Department scandals, George Bush's bottom-of-the-barrel approval ratings, the Republican brand's descent into the gutter, etc. Much of this can be attributed to Rove.

I hope Republicans continue to listen to him this Fall. They'll lose horribly.

Posted by Cello | June 23, 2008 5:02 PM

It's vile and likely ineffective, but I won't pretend it isn't very calculated.

"country club"--in pure Rovian fashion, to deny Obama's minority status and paint him as just another Democratic elitist

"beautiful date"--to undermine Obama's apparently strong marriage, subliminally suggesting unfaithfulness

"cigarette"--hey everyone, don't forget Obama's an (ex?) smoker!

"snide comments"--to remind people of the controversy over Obama's characterization of certain voters as "bitter"

The character Rove describes may not be the real Obama, but it's a perfect template for the official way they hope to define him over the next few months. Of course, unofficially he'll be the secretly gay Muslim who hangs out with terrorists.

Posted by Cole Moore Odell | June 23, 2008 5:02 PM

Yeh, black people don't belong to country clubs.

Also, folk's don't have to have a first-hand experience to understand the concept. If they have an idea about detached, snide, condescending liberals than they can understand the frame.

Posted by willie | June 23, 2008 5:02 PM

"Smithers, I'm beginning to think that Karl Rove is not the brilliant tactician I thought he was."

Rove was right about two things: the fact that the White House would be able to leverage demagoguery about Iraq into success in the 2002 midterm elections and that Bush could make himself into an evangelical golden child and sweep into victory in 2004 with the help of their loyalty.

There are few true political geniuses. There are only people who had a good idea that happened to have worked at the moment they came up with it. Those are the people we remember-- the ones who were in the right place at the right time.

Posted by Tyro | June 23, 2008 5:03 PM

I thought Muslims weren't allowed to drink alcohol. This is getting SOOOOO confusing...

Posted by AWH | June 23, 2008 5:04 PM

This makes me wonder once again why people think Karl Rove is such a stellar political mind. He's not. His only successful (and corrosive) insight was that Republicans could be elected if they did everything in their power to politicize terrorism and the Iraq War. Apart from that he's been a total botch. Look at the 2006 midterms, the Valerie Plame and Justice Department scandals, George Bush's bottom-of-the-barrel approval ratings, the Republican brand's descent into the gutter, etc. Much of this can be attributed to Rove.

I hope Republicans continue to listen to him this Fall. They'll lose horribly.

Posted by Cello | June 23, 2008 5:06 PM

How many Americans have had the experience of being at a country club and watching some dude with a beautiful date hold a martini and smoke a cigarette?

How many Americans have had the experience of killing babies while driving a Volvo, eating granola, and rooting for Bin Laden to strike again? Real Americans aren't depraved liberal monsters!!!

I guess we're supposed to think Obama is a decadent, superior acting smartass. The country club framing is a little awkward. (Would a fraternity party have been better? Wedding reception? Company picnic?)

One thing that strikes me about this remark is it associates Obama with smoking. I don't know how widely known it is in the general public that Obama is trying to kick cigarettes.

Posted by Dix Hill | June 23, 2008 5:08 PM

This is intended as raw meat for those who resent the success of Tiger Woods and the fact that he has a stunning wife. How big a demographic could that be?

Posted by Ein Junger Hirt | June 23, 2008 5:08 PM

I hate those guys at the country club who make snide comments and have beautiful dates! (i.e. trustfund scumbags) Agh, they piss me off! (actually I just hate everyone at the country club period. George Carlin RIP!)

As a longtime Obamabot, I'm just grateful Hillary toughened us up so we can withstand the Republican attack machine. Remember politics ain't beanbag!

Posted by Peter K. | June 23, 2008 5:08 PM

I can't decide whether calipygian's comment or SoCalJustice's comment is funnier, so I'm going to declare it a tie.

Posted by Led | June 23, 2008 5:11 PM

Isn't this exactly the vibe that Obama is going for? I mean, isn't "cooly arrogant" a good description of JFK?

We know that Barry smokes, but the rest of Karl's little mise en scene is entirely from the 1960s, which is what Barry wants. That's why Mrs. Barry wears the dresses she wears, among other things. Even though country clubs are dead, and no one drinks or smokes anymore, we still know this guy. And we even elected him president once.

Posted by Thomas | June 23, 2008 5:12 PM

This comment by Karl Rove was not terribly well calculated. I don't think that there are a lot of people of any political persuasion who won't vote for Obama because he makes Karl Rove feel like a loser.

Posted by Psittakos | June 23, 2008 5:13 PM

Obama is definitely not that guy. I am.

Posted by Seth | June 23, 2008 5:14 PM

I thought Muslims weren't allowed to drink alcohol.

You're forgetting the key fact that he is a secret Muslim. The rules are different.

Posted by zaleriana | June 23, 2008 5:15 PM

Karl Rove is the fat kid who tries to enter the circle of kids talking but can't.

Posted by 55 | June 23, 2008 5:17 PM

Tim Dickinson at Rolling Stone pegged what Rove is getting at.

Posted by Kevin | June 23, 2008 5:21 PM

Rove is off message here. Is Obama a "typical politician", a product of Chicago machine politics or is he an effete limosine liberal?

They just can't quite figure him out yet or how to define him and it must be killing them.

Posted by debrazza | June 23, 2008 5:24 PM

I worked at a couple of country clubs as a teenager. They would not have allowed Obama in the door. They even made me come in the back because I was "help".

Posted by Sherry | June 23, 2008 5:25 PM

This from a guy who let his boss call him "Turdblossom"?

Posted by DHN | June 23, 2008 5:26 PM

This from a guy whose boss calls him "Turdblossom"?

Posted by DHN | June 23, 2008 5:28 PM

"cigarette"--hey everyone, don't forget Obama's an (ex?) smoker!

So is Laura Bush.

I always fear for the upholstery she always wears. One little live ash and you get a HUGE hole.

Posted by Julia Grey | June 23, 2008 5:29 PM

I can't believe Mr.Rove is not doing prison time.

Many of Nixon's minions did.

And many of Reagan's.

Look it up, awesome gods of the blosgosphere.

Posted by wobbly | June 23, 2008 5:31 PM

Your missing the point:

It's not that these working folks have much country club experience. Rather, this is meant to play on peoples' stereotypes--often true--about what upper class folks think of them.

This is sort of the class issues that Republicans have tried to turn into cultural issues for years--with lots of success.

But yeah, Obama is definitely not that guy. No, its just the crass, classist people like Karl, Rummy and Cheney that would be in the corner chiding people.

However, in my medical opinion, Cheney probably should refrain from drinking or smoking--what with that bum ticker and all. Old people never learn!

Posted by jeff | June 23, 2008 5:34 PM

Exactly. Just like the communist, secret Muslim that he is.

Posted by SoCalJustice | June 23, 2008 4:53 PM

GOP narratives often have both internal and external contradictions.

Posted by Steve J. | June 23, 2008 5:37 PM

Exactly. Just like the communist, secret Muslim that he is.

Posted by SoCalJustice | June 23, 2008 4:53 PM

GOP narratives often have both internal and external contradictions.

Posted by Steve J. | June 23, 2008 5:39 PM

Exactly. Just like the communist, secret Muslim that he is.

Posted by SoCalJustice | June 23, 2008 4:53 PM

GOP narratives often have both internal and external contradictions.

Posted by Steve J. | June 23, 2008 5:41 PM

Agree that this mostly reveals Rove's insecurities. But hey, if he doesn't traction with this image, he'll just be back next week with something else. All the way to November.

Posted by mark | June 23, 2008 5:42 PM

I think you need to interprate the comment through the aspirational processing circuits of the republican voter. They live in the greatest country on earth ever (well, not really) they care about the tax rates on the rich because they will be soon (not really), etc, etc.

The aspire to belong at a country club, but they don't. If they did, the guy that Karl describes is just the person to make you feel like a fraud, like you don't belong.

And that's what a lot of Dem candidates do, is make these people feel like frauds. "I feel your pain, this is a tough economy, you need Uncle Sams help." In a lot of cases it is true, but when you say it, it makes all their hard work and aspirations into frauds.

Thanks, they say, I had a pretty good self-image (soon to be rich, playing golf at the country club, 'made it') and here you go pointing out that I can only afford my life style with home equity loans, that I'm on the brink of not being able to provide my family health insurance, etc, etc. Shut up about it.

Also, I see the uppity angle, too: what's Barack doing with a nice date - isn't he married? And all the sexual insecurities that are part of racial hang ups.

Just some thoughts.

Posted by Chuck | June 23, 2008 5:44 PM

Barack Obama is Sammy Davis Jr.! Except Muslim, not Jewish, and not as good a tapdancer or singer.

Still, I liked Sammy, and I really appreciated his anti-smoking campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3_JV0xrklM

Posted by anon | June 23, 2008 5:46 PM

It makes sense that Karl Rove would be so bitterly opposed to Senator Obama.

Barack stands for everything that Mr Rove hates, such as thoughtfulness, liberty, excellence and most of all, honesty.

Rove is the troll under the bridge. Sort of a sissified Billy Goat Gruff.

Posted by Pope Ratzo | June 23, 2008 5:53 PM

Chuck, I don't think anyone really aspires to belong to country clubs, except maybe serious golfers. The idea of the country club as the locus of socializing is an anachronism. So is the smoking and drinking. (What do Dems think Republicans do? Get together at the club and drink martinis and smoke cigars? Really?)

Not every analysis of Barry is meant to be entirely critical or disparaging. The implicit comparison is to JFK, and, among Dems, that's not a criticism at all.

And saying that Barry's wife is a "beautiful date" isn't at all a criticism. That's a straight-up compliment.

Posted by Thomas | June 23, 2008 5:54 PM

Besides the fact that Obama's not that guy, how about Rove's complete lack of knowledge about what country clubs are like. I've been to my fair share, including some of the snottiest, and not once have I ever seen anyone smoking there (I'm sure it happens, but only on the back nine where no one is watching). It's just not something that country club types do (or, perhaps, admit to doing) these days.

Posted by bottomofthe9th | June 23, 2008 6:01 PM

You would definitely think the dude to whom Rove refers is white. The attack seems to be: this guy is so good that he makes me feel inferior. Shouldn't Presidents make people feel inferior, if we're going to get invidious? The president should be damn impressive, and while this doesn't necessitate an obnoxious snarkiness, if you're as insecure as Rove is you're bound to find it. How else to crucify a saint?

Posted by Robert | June 23, 2008 6:01 PM

I read that and I thought, "that's George W. Bush."

True story. I was at the Forefather's Inn in Arundel, Maine in the early 70's. Young George came in with a bunch of tennis dressed 20 somethings. He was obviously holding court in the bar...I was minding my own business with a friend, sitting at the bar. George was behind me making a point with a glass of beer. He managed to dump half off it on my back. I reacted by jumping off the chair and I clearly remember his words to me were, "what's your problem?" Obviously, not a hint of apology. He was an arrogant, elitist prick then and he's only expanded on his reputation over time.

Posted by Innocent Bystander | June 23, 2008 6:02 PM

What do Dems think Republicans do? Get together at the club and drink martinis and smoke cigars? Really?)

No. But obviously its what Karl Rove thinks crypto-Commie-Islamo-DemocRAT-latte-drinking-Volvo-driving-LIEbruls spend their time doing

Posted by calipygian | June 23, 2008 6:03 PM

It's a projection -- he's unknowingly talking about himself. Just like when Bill Clinton said Todd Purdum has no shame.

Posted by Michael Sigman | June 23, 2008 6:06 PM

According to Freud, projection is a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one's own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else.

Posted by Michael Sigman | June 23, 2008 6:08 PM

"This is sort of the class issues that Republicans have tried to turn into cultural issues for years--with lots of success."

That's what he was probably going for, but the way he phrased it sounds like we're all supposed to know what it's like to deal with that guy at the country club. It's like Krusty trying his hand at observational humor and complaining about your butler bringing you the wrong cognac.

Posted by Reality Man | June 23, 2008 6:20 PM

So what do they do for fun at US country clubs? Snort coke?

Posted by novakant | June 23, 2008 6:38 PM

Ah yes, yes. What was the old chap's name? Something...Gatsby? Ahem. Yes. Gatsby. Boats against the current and all that...

Posted by The Fool | June 23, 2008 6:42 PM

Think Karl spent too much time as the bald, roly-poly gossip who always put the turd in the punch bowl and goosed the budding debs with a fart prod. He has no frame of reference for Obama. And, don't think the image he conjured up is quite 007. Sounds more like Addison DeWitt (George Sanders) in "All About Eve". In Rove's mind - the suave, sophisticated Gilbert Gottfried is James Bond.

Posted by Trevor | June 23, 2008 6:43 PM

I'm just here to repeat what Jake Tapper had to say. If Karl Rove were at a country club party, he'd be the guy who scratched your car and then said the staff did it.

Posted by Kyle | June 23, 2008 6:57 PM

And Rove is that guy you knew in high school that you wanted to bitch slap for being a greasy, manipulating, self aggrandizing and unbearably obnoxious little shit. Actually, one can find clones of all the jerks one has encountered in life all within the neo-con coterie. They never got laid, liked or chosen for a sport. Their revenge is completely f*****g up everything they touch without a shred of conscience. And Bush is their icon.

Posted by Bruce | June 23, 2008 7:00 PM

If by "snide remarks" he means calling someone like little Karl a "corpulent sack of treasonous dung" then, i'm sorry but that's just the sort of remark any sane person would make about ol' Turdblossom

Posted by The Crapture | June 23, 2008 7:08 PM

If by "snide remarks" he means calling someone like little Karl a "corpulent sack of treasonous dung" then, i'm sorry but that's just the sort of remark any sane person would make about ol' Turdblossom

Posted by The Crapture | June 23, 2008 7:10 PM

Even better is the WaPo's assertion that Hyde Park is, apparently, the new Beverly Hills.

Jeebus, I had two murders within one block of my appartment my 1L year at Chicago Law, as well as two armed (i.e. gun) robberies in my building (student housing, no less!). It took me about a week living there just to gin up the courage to walk 300 yards to the market, and I'm a good-sized dude who knows how to fight. A classmate of ours got held up at gun point for his bike -- on the first day he moved to Hyde Park. You could routinely hear gunshots from the Law School dorm. Sure, things were a lot worse 10 blocks further south, but things are a lot worse in Mogadishu too.

Posted by Anon | June 23, 2008 7:15 PM

I feel I can say with authority that, no, Obama does not come across as this guy. George W. Bush is that guy.

Absolutely.

Has anyone every read Karl Rove's description of the first time he met George Bush? There's a deep homoerotic feeling to it. Rove falls in love with the young Bush because he was "cool" for pretty much the reasons he uses against Obama.

BuzzFlash: Again, neither you nor I have the ability to be Freudian about this, but when I reread Rove’s comments about meeting George W. Bush,I thought it bordered on the homoerotic. He described that he was in a leather jacket. He even got down to the level of detail that he had this crease in the back of his pocket that came from carrying chewing tobacco in that spot.

James Moore: Right.

BuzzFlash: It’s the kind of physical detail that you just don’t normally see if a person doesn’t have an emotional attraction to somebody.

James Moore: Right. He said, I saw him walking up, and he was wearing boots and blue jeans, and a brown leather bomber jacket, and he had these steely blue eyes, and he was smacking gum. He had this thick curly hair, and you could see the tobacco circle pouch in his back pocket. And Rove said, I thought he was just the coolest guy in the world. I wanted to be like him. The context, of course, is that George Bush was sort of the antithesis of what Karl was at that -- the glasses-wearing guy, a geek, and W. is cool. That’s why I’ve said their political union is also sort of a physical and spiritual union as well, because they’re two different kinds of characters.

Posted by KevinNYC | June 23, 2008 7:19 PM

Every exclusive country club has at least one black man who looks down on everybody. You know, the elitist.

Where's the racial subtext in that?

Posted by Memekiller | June 23, 2008 7:22 PM

Every exclusive country club has at least one black man who looks down on everybody. You know, the club's token elitist.

Where's the racial subtext in that?

Posted by Memekiller | June 23, 2008 7:22 PM

What if Obama's a double secret Muslim? Then all bets are off.
I think that Herr Karl is projecting a little Skull and Bones aura into the race.
Where's your pledge pin Mr. Rove?

Posted by arkieology | June 23, 2008 7:26 PM

I go for the Sammy Davis uppity negro angle, a black dude trying to act white at our club, i.e., drinking martinis instead of Colt 45, making fun of us,trying to screw our womenfolk with his out of control black dick. Imagine the nerve of that boy! Anyway, if I was around Rove, I'd be cooly arrogant too, because I sure as hell wouldn't want to talk to with his slimy ass.

Posted by anon | June 23, 2008 7:40 PM

Sounds more like Bush was the Fonz to Rove's Ralphie.

Posted by OM | June 23, 2008 7:51 PM

Sounds more like Bush was the Fonz to Rove's Ralphie.

Posted by OM | June 23, 2008 7:52 PM

In regards to the class frame (that the listener knows 'the type' even if not a country club goer):

But it's not framed well to convey that. It's framed so that the listener must first view themselves as belonging to a country club. Within the subset of people willing to do that, the listener must further picture him or herself not as the cool James Bond guy, or the hot date, or any number of positive country club associations--no, you have to view yourself as someone who would be painfully out of place and mocked by those in place.

I just don't see this as a large group. Which is why I'd love to see some Republican 527 pick this up and try to run with it. (Heck, half the stuff out of the McCain campaign, including the new blog, convinces me that they're trying to project an ineptness so complete Obama will stop trying, so they can pounce.)

Posted by Deborah | June 23, 2008 7:58 PM

This really is a weird comment. As many have pointed out, it's weird to paint an African American - particularly a black man that's also being painted as a foreign, exotic, Muslim, anti-white black churchgoer that's out to destroy America, or at least the white part of it - as a snooty country club elitist. And then if you buy Rove's metaphor, it only works if you also belong to that country club yourself. So, is this an appeal to upper middle (but not upper upper) class voters?

But I have to say, I'm not detecting a racist tinge - for once. Hey, he's saying that Obama is the guy successful enough to belong to a country club and have a beautiful gal! As somebody said above, he's James Bond! You might envy that guy, but honestly, who doesn't want to be Bond, James Bond?

(Answer: That guy who works in accounting at MI6 who's always hated the way Bond gets all the girls. In other words, former student council president and self-avowed nerd Rove.)

Posted by The Pop View | June 23, 2008 8:22 PM

He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.

Exactly. Just like the communist, secret Muslim that he is.

A Muslim with a martini? These guys are getting so mixed up that it hurts to try to comprehend their imagery.

Posted by sunsin | June 23, 2008 8:55 PM

Funny how if you sub "Miller Lite" for "Martini" and "Gullible Librarian" for "Beautiful Date", you've got George W. Bush.

Posted by space2k | June 23, 2008 8:57 PM

This just gets better and better...first Hillary publicly equates Obama with RFK, then turdblossom makes him a member of the Rat Pack - you can't buy this kind of publicity!

Posted by lobstakilla | June 23, 2008 9:07 PM

He's saying the guy is an arrogant snot who is highly impressed with himself, moreso than others are with him. So he shows up with a hot woman so that he can imagine that everybody wants to be him, but they don't. Seems about right.

Posted by Molly | June 23, 2008 9:07 PM

But little Karl always wanted to BE the guy at the country club himself. He did everything they asked in order to be admitted, no matter how loathsome. Now he wonders why, once he's in the door, he's left making nasty comments to himself, and noone will go near him.
The ultimate "irony" of course, is that George Walker Bush the umpteenth belongs to far more such clubs than Sen Obama ever did (or could).

Posted by Reginal Perrin | June 23, 2008 9:08 PM

Wait, was this quote supposed to be about Obama or Truman Capote? Cause I get them confused all the time.

Posted by bearshark | June 23, 2008 9:27 PM

[Is it really possible that no one has said this yet?]

It's the new DemocRAT PACK! If Obama is Sammy Davis, who are the others?

Posted by kajey | June 23, 2008 9:46 PM

No one will ever convince me that Rove wasn't the administration flack who gave Ron Suskind the famous quote regarding "...we make our own reality now."

Now I *know* he's smoking something (puff, puff...GIVE, Karl). He's projecting his own lifelong inability to be "that guy" at the country club.

Posted by serge | June 23, 2008 9:51 PM

Molly,

Yeah he is so impressed with himself that he beat HRC when it was hers to lose.

Posted by Micheline | June 23, 2008 9:52 PM

It it hard to take Rove's comment seriously when he worked for Dubya.

Posted by Micheline | June 23, 2008 9:57 PM

He's saying the guy is an arrogant snot who is highly impressed with himself, moreso than others are with him. So he shows up with a hot woman so that he can imagine that everybody wants to be him, but they don't. Seems about right.

LOL. You have managed to project an entire scenario based upon a number of things that Rove obviously didn't even come close to saying in his already absurdly constructed comparison. I suppose it must be comforting in a way to be able to interpret anything that anyone says as a reinforcement of one's own otherwise unsupported belief system. Its also delusional and not particularly helpful in actually understanding the world, but comforting nonetheless.

Posted by brent | June 23, 2008 10:02 PM

He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.

The uncanny thing is that with this Rove describes to a tee George W. Bush. Right down to the "makes snide remarks" part.

In this stereotype, Obama would be the skinny black guy working as a waiter while putting himself through school.

Posted by g | June 23, 2008 10:23 PM

Hyde Park? Beverly Hiils?
bwahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha*
*snort*gulp*hack*ahahahahahahahahHAHAHAhahahHahahHAHHACHCHCHCHHahahaha*gulp*
I think I wet myself...

Posted by pbg | June 23, 2008 10:41 PM

"He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."

What's the guy with the martini, the cigarette, and the hot date doing leaning against the wall? What?- he's not at the center table comfortably seated perhaps with his date in his lap yucking it up with the other swells? The only one leaning against the wall is the waiter from Panama City trying to steady his tray amidst all the hubbub. Either Rove is just nuts or he went to a real downscale country club that had only a few ratty chairs.

Posted by Sam | June 23, 2008 11:02 PM

This is Rove's, and the anti-Obama vote's, own envy shining through. Lord knows, Rove never was this way. Not in high school, nor at any other time. His whole political career has been informed by the negativity that he ascribes to the "Obama" character.

Posted by Jim H | June 23, 2008 11:03 PM

Even if you never met him, you know this guy. He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.

It's funny because this is the opposite of Barack-- his whole image is classy and dignified; he's the guy who usually knows just what to say and in just what measure. He's perhaps the suavest guy in politics, and he's the type of guy most of us would love to have representing us as something like our president, our lawyer, our Senator, etc. So how do you counter a strength like that? Just claim the guy is the opposite of what he is, and if people aren't inclined to think you'd lie to them, they'll fill in the blanks themselves to interpret him as being what you said he is.

Also all the racist undertones are obvious-- Country clubs are pricy and in the past, tried to keep minorities out. They may be the type of place where guys who try to avoid minorities may join up. Rove's sound-bite says to a white guy who feels threatened by blacks, even (perhaps especially) if he isn't at all actually a member of a country club, "Hey, what if you could have a membership at a country club so you could get away from the stress of the world once or twice a week, but when you got there one day you found out a guy who looked like Barack Obama was there? And he had a woman with him that should be with a better man?? And while he was enjoying being in that club, with that woman, he was saying crap about everyone who belonged there who walked by???"

It's totally designed to get people thinking on totally racial terms of Barack as an arrogant person who doesn't belong, trying to take what's not his. If you know what racists are like at all, you can see that all the pandering is there.

Posted by Swan | June 23, 2008 11:04 PM

You know racist guys aren't going to read "beautiful woman" and think of Michelle Obama- they're going to think of some blonde-model stereotype.

Posted by Swan | June 23, 2008 11:08 PM

Matt,

A few years ago Obama was unknown - Can you imagine how Rove would have reacted if a black guy like Obama walked across his Mississippi or Texas property?

Don't you think Rove would have called the cops?

It's debatable if Rove is such a genius, but he comes off as an asshole.

Is he a racist?

Gee, what do you think?

Posted by Comment | June 24, 2008 12:37 AM

Tyro's comment at 4:55 is probably the closest to Rove's purpose.

Rove's recurring modus operandi is to create an attack which does one thing: accuse an opponent of repugnant behavior which is (A) the opposite (or near-opposite) of the actual behavior of that opponent, and (B) how his own candidate actually behaved. (Such as the 2004 Swift-Boating of Kerry). I believe he lovingly refers to this tactic as "ratfucking". Of course, whether it will work this time is open to debate.

But as one sage said, "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"

Posted by SFAW | June 24, 2008 12:45 AM

He's saying the guy is an arrogant snot who is highly impressed with himself, moreso than others are with him. So he shows up with a hot woman so that he can imagine that everybody wants to be him, but they don't. Seems about right.

Interesting. Maybe we're missing the whole point here. What if the target audience for this whistle isn't Republican voters...?

Posted by scythia | June 24, 2008 2:05 AM

Can you imagine how Rove would have reacted if a black guy like Obama walked across his Mississippi or Texas property?

Obama is the most honest-looking, legit-looking black guy around. Rove isn't unsophisticated, and he knows there are black guys who are lawyers, politicians, doctors, scientists, etc. He knows a lot of the stereotype is pure myth, even if he himself is a racist- he's a manipulator who is going to exaggerate things if he thinks it will help him. If Rove saw Obama walk across his property and didn't know him, he'd probably just wonder what some guy was doing there and ask him, not assume that a guy who looks like Obama is actually a robber.

But if he thought it would help his interests, I'm sure he'd tell the story later as if he thought the guy was a crook.

Posted by Swan | June 24, 2008 2:13 AM

If only country clubs were that interesting, Karl! If only we still drank martinis and were allowed to smoke anywhere, anywhere at all.

Undeniable proof that Rove is that perpetual Junior High Schooler circa 67. I'll bet he cranks up The Grass Roots at home when he's feeling fine and frisky.

Tool to the tenth power of tooliness.

Posted by charlotte | June 24, 2008 4:38 AM

We all know a guy like that. He's the kind of guy at the retirement community who stands on the side of the shuffleboard court making snide comments about how Ronald Reagan wasn't the best president ever. I hate that guy!

Posted by John Lally | June 24, 2008 8:33 AM

He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by.

Sounds like Karl's old boss.

Posted by Peter Principle | June 24, 2008 8:47 AM

This is not a comment even worth psychoanalyzing, because it's strictly from script. The democratic candidate [insert name here] is [choose one or two of the following,

Country Club'd

Comments (119)